chi vampirism

[CareBear]

Not sure if this is the right forum, but i gota ask :)

I have read a few thing about chi vampirisum, but the informations i got was interesting and a bit disturbing.

Can anybody give me a bit more info on this ?
thank you

[onyomi]

No such thing. You're thinking of "psychic vampirism," which is something only people who do Wicca-type silliness believe in.

[CareBear]

thank you for the info.

was reading it on a website but i think thay got mix up 2 :)

thanks again

[qiew]

Well, a healer can give his qi away to heal other. Wouldn't it be possible to reverse the procedure to receive instead of giving.

[AJM]

Yup. It's a form of death magic you want nothing to do with.

[Sang Feng Fan]

There are such things as jing thieves and they are to be avoided.

[TaiXu]

I heard that there is in China, but they usually steal it from trees and they can only steal Yin qi. It would be a useless skill. Better off just doing qi gong practice since Yin qi usually makes peoples skill color off. Their skin looks like its a sick yellow, blue, or the worst gross looking pasty white.
The best kind is primordial qi of the dan tian (which supposedly a great master can take it if his level is high enough).

[qiew]

Practicing qi under a tree has a medical healing effect of utilising wood qi to improve the deficiency of wood organ (liver).

There are abundant of qi around us which is stronger than our own qi. So people make use of the nature to cultivate qi.

Qi will always flow from the strong area to a weaker area. Nature qi is stronger than our body qi.

If you have strong qi, your qi would naturally flow to your mate who is having a weaker qi. That is the nature of the law of equilibrium. It is like a stronger battery would charge up the weaker battery until both are the same voltage. Hence, the qi transfer.

[TaiXu]

Doesn't different trees have different qi. I heard something briefly about this. Like this tree has yellow qi and that tree has white qi?

I don't know about using specific sources of qi, I prefer energy that is free in the air. So I don't interfere in other peoples things. Even trees are a life.

[qiew]

Every living thing has a specific frequency which may vary even with the same species. When you are in deep meditation, you would see qi energy in the form of light (s) of a specific colour depending on the stage or level you are at the time of meditation. As your level of qi is changed so is your body frequency and hence the colour you see.

Meditation under a tree would be influenced by the tree (frequency) and hence the seeing of different colour which is depended on the type and size of tree. So people may say this tree has a yellow qi or red qi.

As you say, you prefer qi in the air, so let the nature harmonise yourself and make use of the freely available qi in the air or surrounding living nature.

[Justaguy]

I don't really understand why anyone would get into qi vampirism.

Sure its possible, you can draw in energy from just about anything - mountains, the earth, sky, trees, the ocean, etc.

But negative connotations of vampirism asside, are people even a good source of energy?

I don't see how it could really harm someone unless you were strong enough to drain them of an incredible amount of qi.

If anyone has first hand experience with this I'd be interested in hearing it...

[scholar]

It is a metaphor for anyone who seeks to impose their will on another for an advantage. Anyone who takes what doesn't belong to them. Whatever advantage that may be: financial or material, political (who's alpha male or female?), sexual, psychic, whatever.

So, politicians, salesmen (who lean in psychically to sell things to people they don't need), bullies, frauds (see Juna's Falun Gong thread), etc., are all trying to steal things people have invested their time and energy into. They are taking that which doesn't belong to them, and weighing themselves down with dread karma (to use the Buddhist terminolgy, Taoists called it "blame") in the process.

So, how do people who really do treat others well avoid this? First off, to mix metaphors yet more, turn the other cheek. Don't resent people who try it on you. That locks you into their cycle and it is a lot harder to shake them off. You still tell them to shove off, but without dwelling on it internally. Treat everyone you meet as if they were the Buddha, love your neighbour as yourself, etc. Feel sorry for them instead of getting angry, because the anger is what they want.

It is as simple as a decision. If you know who you are and what you are working on to improve yourself, then you can decide that no one can take your energy or spirit. You protect yourself by saying, "No, thanks" and meaning it. Very often you'll see statues of bodhisattvas holding the left hand up, palm outward, meaning just that.

[NewToChen]

Well said, Scholar.
I dunno anything about the subject, but I thought your reply was just outstanding.

cheers

[TenTigers]

the Buddha said,"If someone offers you a gift, and you choose not to recieve it, whom does it belong to?"

[RonH]

I don't really understand why anyone would get into qi vampirism.

Sure its possible, you can draw in energy from just about anything - mountains, the earth, sky, trees, the ocean, etc.

But negative connotations of vampirism asside, are people even a good source of energy?

I don't see how it could really harm someone unless you were strong enough to drain them of an incredible amount of qi.

If anyone has first hand experience with this I'd be interested in hearing it...

When you take in someone's energy, you're taking in all the vibes put into that energy by the target. Most people are royally screwed up that by taking on their crap, even if you aren't that keenly aware of the specifics, it isn't good. Just because you don't notice some of the bad stuff you're taking in, that doen't mean that energy has zero effect on you or your surroundings. I prefer drawing from the universe itself, while it's in a more pure form and not connected to the crap a lot of people put in theirs. It's not very "energetically sanitary". Qi vamping is more suited to fighting circumstances, redirecting it elsewhere (like the ground), while you step out of the way and push their material body.

[MonkeyKingUSA]

No such thing. You're thinking of "psychic vampirism," which is something only people who do Wicca-type silliness believe in.

Actually that would be against Wiccan teachings since the first and only rule is, "Do no harm".

Though psychic vampirism is practiced by some involved in the occult and it could be done through qigong.

[TenTigers]

to go a step further, Wiccan beliefs state that not only should you do no harm to others, but also to yourselves as well. Psychi vampirism harms all those involved.
MM,MP,BB;)

[JDK]

I beleive it is possible to steal a persons chi.

This is one of the main reasons I stopped practicing the spiritual parts of the Chinese Southern Styles....it is too connected to deity worship . I am a christian and DO believe in demon spirits, I believe they can masquarade as just about anything once you enter the spirit realm...so mu strong advice is to not get involved at all with these things we know little about.

One of my Instructors advised me a long time ago NOT to allow anyone to know the exact time of day I meditated or or pacticed meditative Chi-Kung.

Sometimes a person may secretly not like you, be jealous of your Martial ability...or just a thief.

Psychic Vampire
A psychic vampire is a person who connects with your chi (pronounced chee) or life force energy and takes it for his/her own purposes. This person may touch you even casually or just come close to you. You feel drained.

http://www.amazon.com/Psychic-Vampires-Protection-Predators-Parasites/dp/0738701912


It is a real danger so I would advice caution.

[Soo Ma Tai]

"No such thing. You're thinking of "psychic vampirism," which is something only people who do Wicca-type silliness believe in."

One a side note, have some respect, Wicca is no more silly than Christianity or Qigong. It is a matter of belief, pure and simple.

[NJM]

I beleive it is possible to steal a persons chi.
One of my Instructors advised me a long time ago NOT to allow anyone to know the exact time of day I meditated or or pacticed meditative Chi-Kung.


Good idea not telling anyone about that, such forms of meditation don't make you necessarily vulnerable in that you take down a barrier, but it's like "jumping in the ring" Once you're in, you're free game. It's like materializing yourself somewhere, you can't be a target until they name you.

[JDK]

Good idea not telling anyone about that, such forms of meditation don't make you necessarily vulnerable in that you take down a barrier, but it's like "jumping in the ring" Once you're in, you're free game. It's like materializing yourself somewhere, you can't be a target until they name you.

Well put....and a good point.

Thanks for the clarification..

JD

[scholar]

"No such thing. You're thinking of "psychic vampirism," which is something only people who do Wicca-type silliness believe in."

One a side note, have some respect, Wicca is no more silly than Christianity or Qigong. It is a matter of belief, pure and simple.


I think qigong should be more than a matter of belief. That is why I like martial qigong. If it helps with your training - coordination, balance, stamina etc., then it has an objective benefit that is more useful (and reliably teachable to others) than subjective belief. You can pare away the mystical and just use the word qi in its original sense, breath, and save a lot of time, IME.

New religions, like wicca, falungong, etc., are from a positioning that relies entirely on personality. Wicca was made up by an Englishman named Gardner in the 1950s and falungong by Li Hongzhi in the 1990s. They used language reminiscent of older religions, but what they promoted was almost entirely their own personal preferences.

Most older religions had an ethic that, at least in their formative periods, was designed to encourage a stable society. What most believers have done since then isn't pretty, but there was originally a useful point to them that has since been mostly lost, IMO.

[JDK]

In my opinion..."Wicca" is to Witchcraft and Satanism what the Boy Scouts are to the American Military

Preparation.

Wicca is said to be the worship of nature and natural forces...in truth, it is worshipping the CREATION instead of the Creator.

I know this next illustration is not going to be popular...but I need to tell the truth.

The first 2 images below are satanic signs called A Pentagram

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/4199/batpentagram21hx.th.jpg (http://img258.imageshack.us/my.php?image=batpentagram21hx.jpg)

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/3100/invertedpentagram9xq.th.jpg (http://img212.imageshack.us/my.php?image=invertedpentagram9xq.jpg)

Now note the Martial Arts version:

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/2748/kyushojutsuii76pr.th.gif (http://img254.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kyushojutsuii76pr.gif)

Waaaaay to similiar to be a coincidence.

I am not saying this is done on purpose...it is just that the devil has disussed himself in so many ways...we would be foolish to think he "left out" such an Old Culture as Chinese Cosmotology....

JMHO

JD

[NJM]

In my opinion..."Wicca" is to Witchcraft and Satanism what the Boy Scouts are to the American Military

Preparation.

Wicca is said to be the worship of nature and natural forces...in truth, it is worshipping the CREATION instead of the Creator.

I know this next illustration is not going to be popular...but I need to tell the truth.

The first 2 images below are satanic signs called A Pentagram

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/4199/batpentagram21hx.th.jpg (http://img258.imageshack.us/my.php?image=batpentagram21hx.jpg)

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/3100/invertedpentagram9xq.th.jpg (http://img212.imageshack.us/my.php?image=invertedpentagram9xq.jpg)

Now note the Martial Arts version:

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/2748/kyushojutsuii76pr.th.gif (http://img254.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kyushojutsuii76pr.gif)

Waaaaay to similiar to be a coincidence.

I am not saying this is done on purpose...it is just that the devil has disussed himself in so many ways...we would be foolish to think he "left out" such an Old Culture as Chinese Cosmotology....

JMHO

JD

Well, traditionally, there was no "star" displaying the elements. That's just a new-age way of displaying it drawn from Yoga.

As for the pentagram, it isn't the sign of the devil. It was a pagan symbol that meant divine protection, or something like that. In the 20th century, because of movies like The Omen, we have a warped view of these things. The pentagram was taken from pagans in the same way that the swastika was taken from the Hindus. So there's no biblical reference to the pentegram. For all intensive purposes nowadays, however, it is the sign of the devil because "satanists" (a.k.a. atheists who like to **** people off) use it. We have to remember that symbols are just ways that man tries to pin evil down, to name it and give it a form. It's a similar thing we do to death, which we try to give form so that we may "fight against" it. I'm not saying that evil doesn't exist or anything, I'm just saying that man has been trying to pin it down for millennia and it never works.

I like the way you think, though. You're wary-ness seems to somehow prevent stagnation.

[JDK]

I believe that the deeper you enter into the Internal Arts...the more you risk;
The Circle Walking and Elemental Theory and Cycles are really Occult....

Consider these Pic's:

http://img180.imageshack.us/my.php?image=baquaii9cd.jpg

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/5897/baquaii9cd.jpg (http://imageshack.us) [b]Please note the PENTAGRAM within....

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/8067/baphomatii6aa.th.gif (http://img266.imageshack.us/my.php?image=baphomatii6aa.gif)

http://img403.imageshack.us/my.php?image=baquaii4mu.jpg

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/8910/baquaii4mu.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img403.imageshack.us/my.php?image=occultking7hp.gif

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/392/occultking7hp.th.gif (http://img403.imageshack.us/my.php?image=occultking7hp.gif)

[NJM]

If a bagua is a pentagram, then this is really Nazi propaganda: http://librarynazi.ytmnd.com/

[JDK]

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/6356/pakuacounteractingix92vy.gif (http://imageshack.us)

http://img255.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pakuacounteractingix92vy.gif


Please note the pentagram inside the Paqua Circle.

THIS is the picture I meant to post before ( sorry)

Again..I do not think this a purposeful attempt of any Master, Style or Martial Artist.
I just think when you compare all the evidence , we will find a re-occurring pattern .

Please stay tuned and hear me out.
Believe it or not I WANT to be wrong! As I have said from the beginning I love the Arts
but if they conflict with my faith and the Inspired Word of God ( the Bible)....I must
obey the Lord.

JD

[JDK]

EVEN "POKEMAN" (Pocket Monsters in Japenese) has incorperated many occult thems and terms to our children..the following are a partial list.

Psychic: That which is spiritualistic.

Magical Stones: Called Elemental Stones

Fire Stone

Water Stone

Leaf Stone

Thunder Stone


Moon Stone

Evolve: The doctrine in which higher life forms have gradually arisen out of lower.

Jynx: The bird used in spells, name means a spell or charm.

Curse: To invoke evil upon.

Magical: Producing marvellous results by compelling the aid of spirits.

Fangs: The venom-tooth of a serpent.

Hypnosis: Placing a person in an altered state of consciousness making them suspectible to the will of another entity or person.

Mesmerizing: Hypnotizing.

Mental energy: Mental telepathy - a communication between mind and mind.

Focus energy: Another form of mental energy.

Mind powers: Another form of mental energy.

Mind reading: Another form of mental energy.

Martial Arts: A form of defense connected to Eastern mysticism.

Karate: A form of martial arts.

Teleport: Astral travel.

Aurora: The goddess of dawn.

Ghost: A spirit appearing after death.

Meditate: To put oneself in an altered state of consciousness. THIS OPENS THE MIND AND SPIRIT UP FOR ENTRANCE OF VARIOUS EVIL SPIRITS

Self-destruct: Suicide, to kill oneself intentionally.

Mirage: Something illusory.

Ninja: One of a body of trained assassins in feudal Japan.

Transform: To be changed in form or substance.

Mystical: Involving a sacred or a secret meaning hidden from the eyes of the ordinary person, only revealed to a spiritually enlightened mind.

Mythical: Relating to an ancient traditional story of gods or heroes.

Hindu Mark: Religious ritual expressing worship to a Hindu God.

TM/HM: Transcendental Meditation

All-Seeing Eye: Represents the third eye of occultists and New Agers, as well as Masons.

Yin/Yang: Two opposing principles of Chinese philosophy and religion influencing destiny, the former negative, feminine and dark, the latter positive, masculine and light.

Lightening Bolt: A satanic symbol representing the gods of thunder (Thor, Set, Zeus, and Jupiter). Satanists love to use the lightening or thunderbolt.

[JDK]

Pentagram is

[a] five-pointed star, often held to have magical or mystical significance, formed by five straight lines connecting the vertices of a pentagon and enclosing another pentagon in the completed figure.
- Source: The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language

As a religious symbol, the pentacle (or pentagram) is used by both Satanists and Wiccans. However, both groups use the symbol in different ways, and assign different meanings to it.

Those differences are explained in a FAQ provided by Witches Voice, the most prominent Wicca site on the net:

Q: So why do you use that “Satanic” symbol?
A: The pentagram, or five pointed star, is not Satanic. Pythagoras used it as a symbol of health and his followers wore them in order to recognize one another. In Medieval times, some Christian knights used the pentagram as their symbol. To modern Wiccans the pentagram means many things; The five points correspond to the elements Air, Earth, Fire and Water with the top point corresponding to “Spirit”. The pentagram in a circle may also represent a human with their legs and arms outstretched, surrounded by universal wisdom or the “Goddess” - humankind at one with the environment. Many Witches and other pagan practitioners do not wear the pentacle at all, but have other symbols of special meaning to them.

Satanists turn the symbol upside-down, which puts the elements of Fire and Earth at the top (Fire symbolizes willpower and passion and Earth, prosperity and earthly goods) and Spirit, spirituality, at the bottom. Satanists also turn the cross upside-down. This, in itself, does not make the cross or pentagram a Satanic symbol. In some Wiccan traditions, the reversed pentagram is a symbol of “second degree” status - one who has been elevated from “initiate”. To members of these traditions, the reversed pentagram is considered highly positive and has no connection to Satanism. A symbol is simply an image or mark in itself. It is the mind and the beliefs of the beholder which attribute to it a particular meaning.
- Source: Witch/Wiccan F.A.Q.s, Witchvox.com


The terms pentacle and pentagram are often used interchangeably, but most Wiccans say they are somewhat different. A pentagram is simply a five-pointed star, while a pentacle surrounds the star with a circle.

Both pentacles and pentagrams are ancient symbols that have been used by many different religions, including Christianity and Judaism. Wiccans trace their use of the symbols back to the ancient Celts, whose earth-based religion serves as a model for many modern pagan groups.

Many people mistakenly associate the pentacle with Satanism. In fact, Satanists generally use an upside-down pentacle, often with a goat’s head in the center.
- Source: Witches fight for symbols on gravestones, The Salem News, via the Henry Daily Herald, USA, Jan. 20, 2006

[JDK]

http://newsletters.cephasministry.com/newage5-99.html

[Mr Punch]

You
are
an
idiot.

Idiots let the Enemy in.

If there were an enemy that is.

There are no such things as demons.
There is no such thing as evil as an entity.
Nor good.
Idiots in denial of the amoral instincts and impulses of the human animal, who scapegoat some mythological enemy and blame everyone else who doesn't share in their same warped view of existance are the Enemy.

Edit: sorry, forgot the
:)

[JDK]

You
are
an
idiot.

So because I am a christian, who has posted articles and Links with my opinions..I'M THE IDIOT ? :confused:


Idiots let the Enemy in.

If there were an enemy that is.

There are no such things as demons.
There is no such thing as evil as an entity.
Nor good.

No such thing as evil or good eh ?
I would love to hear your explanation for 6000 years of violence, bloodshed, and general depravity on the part of mankind....interspursed with random acts of kindness, love and good deeds.



Idiots in denial of the amoral instincts and impulses of the human animal, who scapegoat some mythological enemy and blame everyone else who doesn't share in their same warped view of existance are the Enemy.

Edit: sorry, forgot the
:)

Man is not a "animal"
We are created in the image and likeness of God.
Sin entered the World and we have lived in a depraved state ever since.

Jesus Christ, a historical Figure,,,,worked Miracles for 3 1/2 years...rose from the dead...showed himself to many for 40 days following his Resurrection ( over 500 at one time in one instance) and his followers continue to serve Him Today.

I dont blame everything on the devil....man has a spirit of our own that is perfectly capable of the most dispicable acts imaginable...and also the ability to rise to great heights of nobility.

Over 200 direct Old Testament promises concerning Jesus Birth ALL came true..though written Centuries before his Birth.

I have every logical reason to believe all the promises of His Future return will also be fullfilled.

IF the God of the Bible is True ( and I believe the Ultimate Proof was His Son...)then the devil must be real also.

The Bible says that Heaven is sweet...but that means Hell is also as real and bad as Jesus described.

JDK

[NJM]

But what about the fact that half of the stuff you attribute to "satanism" was deemed "evil" by the Catholic church centuries later?

[JDK]

But what about the fact that half of the stuff you attribute to "satanism" was deemed "evil" by the Catholic church centuries later?

The Catholic Church is not Biblical Christianty. I dont say this because I hate catholics..or because I belong to some religious Cult.
I simply represent non-denomination True Biblical Christianity....

They didnt "come to power" until almost 300 AD.

They perverted what Jesus taught, slaughtered thousands to try and force them to convert to Roman Catholicism, promoted Mary Worship, Saint Worship and even took something as simple as Communion...and perverted it into "Mass"
resembling NOTHING like what the Lord or his disciples and the Early Chrurch practiced. All of these things are forbidden in the Bible...and yet they didnt allow or encourage Catholics to even read God's Holy Word until fairly recent times.

Here are a couple Links you might want to read when and if you have time:)


http://www.chick.com/information/religions/catholicism/

http://tcftalk.suddenlaunch.com/index.cgi?board=Trial

JDK

[JDK]

It is no secret that I and others have posted many articles on the Roman Catholic Institution over the past two and a-half years on this website.

My personal in-depth study of Catholicism began back in 1980

I remember wanting to look at this Organization (that claims 50 percent of "christians" in our Country, and around the World,) with a non biased honest approach. Since I had no formal religious training in Catholicism or Protestant denominations....I know I examined the claims of both with prayer and study of the Word of God.

Allow me to re-post an article from the summer of 2004:

Romanism Part II
« Reply #1 on: Jul 8th, 2004, 12:44pm »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 . Prayers for the dead . …………-------------------……300 A.D.
2. Making the sign of the cross ………………………… …300 A.D.
3. Veneration of angels & dead saints …………---------…….375 A.D.
4. Use of images in worship………………………………… . 375 A.D.
5. The Mass as a daily celebration……………………………… 394 A.D.
6 Beginning of the exaltation of Mary; the term, "Mother of God" applied a Council of Ephesus……………. .----------------------------------------- 431 A.D.
7 Extreme Unction (Last Rites)……………………………… ..526 A.D.
8. Doctrine of Purgatory-Gregory 1…………………………… .593 A.D..
9. Prayers to Mary & dead saints ……………………………… .600 A.D.
10. Worship of cross, images & relics ……………………… … 786 A.D.
11 Canonization of dead saints ………………………………… ..995 A.D.
12. Celibacy of priesthood …………………………………… …1079 A.D.
13. The Rosary ……………………………………………… … 1090 A.D.
14. Indulgences ……………………………………………… …..1190 A.D.
15. Transubstantiation-Innocent III …………………………… 1215 A.D.
16. Auricular Confession of sins to a priest …………………… 1215 A.D.
17. Adoration of the wafer (Host)…………………………… .. 1220 A.D.
18. Cup forbidden to the people at communion …………………..1414 A.D.
19. Purgatory proclaimed as a dogma……………………………..1439 A.D.
20. The doctrine of the Seven Sacraments confirmed …………….1439 A.D.
21 Tradition declared of equal authority with Bible by Council of Trent…………………………………………----------------… 1545 A.D.
22. Apocryphal books added to Bible ………------------……….1546 A.D.
23. Immaculate Conception of Mary……………………………….1854 A.D.
24, Infallibility of the pope in matters of faith and morals, proclaimed by the Vatican Council ……………… 1870 A.D.
25. Assumption of the Virgin Mary (bodily ascension into heaven shortly after her death) ……………………………-----------------------------------……1950 A.D.
26. Mary proclaimed Mother of the Church……………………… 1965 A.D.

http://tcftalk.suddenlaunch.com/index.cgi?board=ROME&action=display&num=1089299214&start=

[JDK]

Although some of the preceding Roman Catholic heresies are now being questioned by many, both inside and outside the church, none have been officially repudiated and all continue to be practiced by millions of Catholics around the world. The urgent need today is for Roman Catholics; yes, and all who claim to be Christians, to examine their own beliefs and the teachings of their churches by the only sure standard-the Bible. Whatever contradicts, adds to or subtracts from the sixty-six books of the Old and the New Testaments, is error no matter how many may cling to it.

Roman Catholics who read the Bible will soon discover that many Catholic teachings and practices are specifically forbidden by Jesus Christ Himself. Note carefully the following warnings given by the Lord Jesus Christ to the religious leaders of His day concerning vain worship, vain tradition and vain repetitions. All of these are particularly applicable to Roman Catholicism today.

Vain Worship-In Matthew 15:8-9, Jesus said, 'This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth and honoreth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the command men of men." All worship is indeed vain when it is based upon the commandments of men rather than the Word of God.

Vain Tradition-In Matthew 15:6b, Jesus said, 'Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. "

(Note): Valid tradition is based upon Scripture and confirms it. Vain tradition is based upon man's teachings and violates it. In Roman Catholicism, tradition is consistently elevated above the Scripture which results in vain worship (no matter how sincere) and makes the commandment of God of no effect-a very serious matter.

Vain Repetitions-In Matthew 6:7, Jesus said, "But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking."

A basic part of Roman Catholic worship is the frequent repetition of The Rosary whose origin is clearly tied to heathen religions such as Hinduism, Islam, and Buddhism. Roman Catholics should listen to the words of Christ forbidding vain repetitions, rather than using the vain repetitions of Catholicism.

During the past forty years, at least three important trends in the Roman Catholic Church are clearly observable. These are: (1) A greater emphasis upon the place of Mary. (2) A major emphasis upon ecumenical activities with a view to seeking the full visible unity of all religions. (3) The acceptance of the so-called Charismatic renewal within the Church with new emphasis upon the claimed "ministry of the Holy Spirit."

There is every reason to believe that all of these major trends will continue and increase; and, all of them are very deceptive, very dangerous, very unscriptural.

The place accorded Mary in the Roman Catholic Church is not Scriptural nor is it new, but it cannot be denied that, during the last one hundred years, veneration of Mary has dramatically increased, Note in the historical chart given earlier in this article that the exaltation of Mary and the term, Mother of God, became official Catholic dogma in 431 A.D.). with prayers to her proclaimed in 600 A.D. But, note also that the "Immaculate Conception of the Virgin Mat)@" was not proclaimed until 1854; her "Assumption" not until 1950; and her title "Mother of the Church" not until as recently as 1965.

[NJM]

The Catholic Church is not Biblical Christianty. I dont say this because I hate catholics..or because I belong to some religious Cult.
I simply represent non-denomination True Biblical Christianity....

They didnt "come to power" until almost 300 AD.

They perverted what Jesus taught, slaughtered thousands to try and force them to convert to Roman Catholicism, promoted Mary Worship, Saint Worship and even took something as simple as Communion...and perverted it into "Mass"
resembling NOTHING like what the Lord or his disciples and the Early Chrurch practiced. All of these things are forbidden in the Bible...and yet they didnt allow or encourage Catholics to even read God's Holy Word until fairly recent times.

Here are a couple Links you might want to read when and if you have time:)


http://www.chick.com/information/religions/catholicism/

http://tcftalk.suddenlaunch.com/index.cgi?board=Trial

JDK

No no, what I'm saying is that the Catholic Church said certain symbols/rituals were evil when they didn't have the right too, I'm not saying that I agree with them. By the way, the enemy feeds on fear, superstition and people like you, please stop trying to destroy the world by purging all evil from it. I know that you want the apocalypse to come, but I just can't allow that to happen on my shift. Continuity is my charge, and nothing will be allowed to harm it until I have been beaten dead and my spirit exhausted. Instead of elaborating on the good and true knowlege of the bible, you instead apply the stagnant aspects of common protestant and catholic faith to other parts of your daily life.

[JDK]

NJM,

You said "No no, what I'm saying is that the Catholic Church said certain symbols/rituals were evil when they didn't have the right too, I'm not saying that I agree with them. By the way, the enemy feeds on fear, superstition and people like you, please stop trying to destroy the world by purging all evil from it. I know that you want the apocalypse to come, but I just can't allow that to happen on my shift.

Where did that come form ?????:confused: I have no ability to purge the world form all evil..I have a hard enough time trying to live holy in my own life!:o
And for the record, I do NOT want the apocalypse ( whatever you mean by that) to "come"..and what do you mean by "not on your shift", and also please elaborate on who you refer to as the enemy.


Continuity is my charge, and nothing will be allowed to harm it until I have been beaten dead and my spirit exhausted. Instead of elaborating on the good and true knowlege of the bible, you instead apply the stagnant aspects of common protestant and catholic faith to other parts of your daily life.

Say What ?
I believe Jesus came in the flesh so that we can share The Good News that He offers salvation to everyone! Unfortunately this particuliar thread deals with a spiritual reality that many deny...but am to not speak the truth, when I have spent the last 30 years dealing with things in the spirit realm?

I just offer my opinion that there are 3 Sources of Power in the World.

1) The God of the Bible our Creator
2) The Power of our own Human Spirit
3) The devil, Satan, the former prize Cherib of Heaven that attempted to overthrow God ages ago before the Earth was created and was cast out of Heaven, along with a third part of the Angels he managed to convince to join him in his rebellion.

My hope, and sincere desire is that we obey God's Word and avoid being taken in by spiritual forces we do not and can not understand.
I could give you countless Scriptures on the above info,,,,,but only if you request them.

I love the Good News...Jesus , God's Son came and gave us power over the devil and his angels/turned demons :)
He came to give us Life Abundant now....AND after death!!!!

Having a personal relationship with Him is the Ultimate!
To think that He loved us so much to give His only Son....Wow I couldnt do that

One last quick point. We are all born into sin...it is our nature.
Put two Babies in a Crib with one Ball to play with..and most of the time they will each want to have the Ball for their own...their natural desire is NOT to share
Did you ever think of that ?? We dont need taught how to be stingy, selfish, lie, or do bad.

THAT comes naturally.

Mankind has to be taught to be good, have manners, be polite, share and tell the truth. WHY???? Because we are naturally born with the tendency to do evil

But thank God HE has provided a way for us to live in peace and harmony!!

What could be more uplifting, encouraging and inspirational that that!!!:D

God Bless

JDK

[scholar]

Two points:

If there is an apocalypse coming (global warming, nuclear winter, whatever), no mere human is going to be able to stop it.

If you really believe in Jesus (Buddha, Lao Tzu, Krishna, etc.) you can't be too upset with others who don't believe the same way you do, as that isn't your job. "Judge not lest ye be judged" and all that. To try to coerce another in any way; physically, intellectually, emotionally or psychically, to your "religious" positioning flies in the face of what all of the above teachers taught. Instead of actually listening to those teachers, people have put them above the realms of human experince with all sorts of ritual BS; calling them Messiahs, Immortals or Avatars over the centuries, but they were ultimately teachers with practical messages for everyday people. People have free will. If they don't want to grow and change, if they want to be unethical and immoral, then no one can make them be otherwise. If you try, you are acting just like one of them.

[NJM]

Two points:

If there is an apocalypse coming (global warming, nuclear winter, whatever), no mere human is going to be able to stop it.

If you really believe in Jesus (Buddha, Lao Tzu, Krishna, etc.) you can't be too upset with others who don't believe the same way you do, as that isn't your job. "Judge not lest ye be judged" and all that. To try to coerce another in any way; physically, intellectually, emotionally or psychically, to your "religious" positioning flies in the face of what all of the above teachers taught. Instead of actually listening to those teachers, people have put them above the realms of human experince with all sorts of ritual BS; calling them Messiahs, Immortals or Avatars over the centuries, but they were ultimately teachers with practical messages for everyday people. People have free will. If they don't want to grow and change, if they want to be unethical and immoral, then no one can make them be otherwise. If you try, you are acting just like one of them.

Good sentiments. I only have one question; what great thinker was deemed "avatars"?

[scholar]

Krishna and (some Hindu schools think) Gautama Buddha were supposed to be avatars of Vishnu.

[JDK]

Two points:

If there is an apocalypse coming (global warming, nuclear winter, whatever), no mere human is going to be able to stop it.

You are absolutely correct. The Bible's depiction of the End of the World is clear, and no power in the Universe can stop it. The amazing part is that God told us all through His Word, how it would be.


If you really believe in Jesus (Buddha, Lao Tzu, Krishna, etc.) you can't be too upset with others who don't believe the same way you do, as that isn't your job. "Judge not lest ye be judged" and all that. To try to coerce another in any way; physically, intellectually, emotionally or psychically, to your "religious" positioning flies in the face of what all of the above teachers taught

Unfortunately the remains of Buddha, Lao Tzu, Krishna are still dead and in their graves.

Jesus's Tomb was and is empty.:) He defeated death, hell and the Grave.

Secondly..I am not trying to coerce anyone to believe anything.
Speaking the truth in Love IS what Jesus commanded us to do until His Return

Gospel of Mark":16:15( JESUS Speaking)
And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Matt 28:18
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

28:20
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway *, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

St Paul -1Corinthians 9:14
Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

I could go on...but my point is made. Christians are commanded to share their faith. Not browbeat...not force...not make it an Offical State Religion like Rome did
but we are simply to share our story of what HE did for us....how he changed our lives.



Instead of actually listening to those teachers, people have put them above the realms of human experince with all sorts of ritual BS; calling them Messiahs, Immortals or Avatars over the centuries, but they were ultimately teachers with practical messages for everyday people. People have free will. If they don't want to grow and change, if they want to be unethical and immoral, then no one can make them be otherwise. If you try, you are acting just like one of them.

You wrote-]if they want to be unethical and immoral, then no one can make them be otherwise

Uhh..I think law enforcment and courts do this all the time. You might want to rethink that. Your freedoms END where mine BEGINS.. is kinda the Law in a nutshell.

And my "job" is to tell the truth.
Is it always popular ? No.

But scholar, have you ever wondered WHY people get so angry or upset when the Gospel of Jesus is talked about ? Not just on this forum...but in life in general.
It is politically correct to be ANYTHING you want to be today.....[u]EXCEPT A BORN-AGAIN CHRISTIAN:confused:

Just a question to ponder....you dont need to answer.

This thread is about a topic that transends the earthly realm.
Someone who is able to project their spiritual bodies and drain energy from another person is using power that God clearly forbids.
It is dangerous, misguided...and I have done my duty in pointing out what the Word of God says about it...so my hands are clean of any "blood"...I sounded the warning...it is each individuals choice how to respond.

JDK

[NJM]

You are absolutely correct. The Bible's depiction of the End of the World is clear, and no power in the Universe can stop it. The amazing part is that God told us all through His Word, how it would be.

You wrote-]if they want to be unethical and immoral, then no one can make them be otherwise

Uhh..I think law enforcment and courts do this all the time. You might want to rethink that. Your freedoms END where mine BEGINS.. is kinda the Law in a nutshell.

And my "job" is to tell the truth.
Is it always popular ? No.

But scholar, have you ever wondered WHY people get so angry or upset when the Gospel of Jesus is talked about ? Not just on this forum...but in life in general.
It is politically correct to be ANYTHING you want to be today.....[u]EXCEPT A BORN-AGAIN CHRISTIAN:confused:

Just a question to ponder....you dont need to answer.

This thread is about a topic that transends the earthly realm.
Someone who is able to project their spiritual bodies and drain energy from another person is using power that God clearly forbids.
It is dangerous, misguided...and I have done my duty in pointing out what the Word of God says about it...so my hands are clean of any "blood"...I sounded the warning...it is each individuals choice how to respond.

JDK

Listen, Chi Vampirism doesn't have to be spiritual. Many believe that Qi is an undiscovered worldly physical force like electricity. Therefore, it doesn't have to do with astral projection if the person never projects themselves into the spirit world. Besides, thinking of the spirit world as a seperate plane is like thinking that the internet is located somewhere.

[Ronin maximus]

How many born again Christians became born again w/o a 12 step program?

One obsession was replaced with another obsession.


And the Bible (and don't take this the wrong way, because it is filled with great wisdom), is only one book and to base your whole life on ONE book doesn't make much sense to me.
Each "Church" has it's own interpretation. Check out public access cable to see all these various interpretations in action.

What if people started to live their lives solely based on the teachings of Sun Tzu's The art of war? (for example).

You know why people don't like born agains?
'Cause they keep saying the "Bible says..the bible says" and never hear the other side of the debate. Kinda like covering their ears and going "Lalalalalalaa I can't hear you"
Coins have 2 sides.

Religion is a tool to keep people in line, to make them think they are being watched, so they behave.

[scholar]

You wrote-]if they want to be unethical and immoral, then no one can make them be otherwise

Uhh..I think law enforcment and courts do this all the time. You might want to rethink that. Your freedoms END where mine BEGINS.. is kinda the Law in a nutshell.

And my "job" is to tell the truth.
Is it always popular ? No.

But scholar, have you ever wondered WHY people get so angry or upset when the Gospel of Jesus is talked about ? Not just on this forum...but in life in general.
It is politically correct to be ANYTHING you want to be today.....[u]EXCEPT A BORN-AGAIN CHRISTIAN:confused:

Just a question to ponder....you dont need to answer.

This thread is about a topic that transends the earthly realm.
Someone who is able to project their spiritual bodies and drain energy from another person is using power that God clearly forbids.
It is dangerous, misguided...and I have done my duty in pointing out what the Word of God says about it...so my hands are clean of any "blood"...I sounded the warning...it is each individuals choice how to respond.

JDK

The criminal justice system punishes people, but it can't change who they are inside. It just beats people from the outside, it can't change their hearts. If someone reforms because their experience in the system, that is good, but they decided to change themselves, it wasn't imposed on them. Punishment was. Many others decide on revenge when they get out. I'd expect a Christian to know that an interior covenant (voluntarily assumed obligation to God, which can be called "born again") is superior to the law (errant behaviour punished by man after the fact, assuming the perp is caught). The ultimate example of the futility of law is that the Roman criminal justice system didn't intimidate Jesus into changing, either.

I do have a theory as to why people get angry with discussions of the gospels. I don't think they are often understood well enough to be presented clearly. Like anything else worthwhile, they require a great deal of study and preparation to get to the essence of what they present. But intellectual study isn't enough, either: "Let them with ears to hear, hear". They are complicated documents written in the idiom of the first and second century eastern Roman Empire, which is only slightly closer to us than the 11th century BC time of Moses that they also draw from. To get a handle on just what they are saying, even if you take the time to learn ancient Hebrew and Greek, you have to be prepared yourself to accept the view of the world as corrupt, evil (or at least dangerous) and impermanent (this is also true of Buddhism and Taoism). What tradition says that the gospels say is often confusing, because tradition has represented worldly power since the time of Constantine, and has lost the original context of the rejection of political power that Moses and Jesus taught in many respects. Because many, if not all, orthodox churches have become props of whatever state they are in, they have become themselves the "Scribes and Pharisees" that Jesus condemned. You are going to have endless debate over this; people quoting their Pope, pastor, patriarch, Paul and the prophets, etc. to support their personal view, with other Christian denominations and within their own - much less with a bunch of guys who aren't interested in the subject to begin with. There are billions of people in the world, some will respond to the message you have posted, others will reject it. As a teacher myself, I have to check and doublecheck all the time to make sure that what I teach has validity even when it is rejected.

Lastly,
I wouldn't say God forbids people stealing energy from others, but rather God has proscribed it. "Thou shalt not steal". God permits people to make the demonstration of stealing because they do in fact still steal. If an omnipotent God had forbidden it, people wouldn't be able to. Rather, God has warned people not to, in many times in many places, and it is up to them to listen to the warning. It is OK for us to report those warnings, even analyzing and discussing them, but we also have to check and doublecheck our motives for confronting others about it, too.

Cheers!

[scholar]

You know why people don't like born agains?
'Cause they keep saying the "Bible says..the bible says" and never hear the other side of the debate. Kinda like covering their ears and going "Lalalalalalaa I can't hear you"
Coins have 2 sides.

Religion is a tool to keep people in line, to make them think they are being watched, so they behave.

That is unfortunately often true, which I get into above. The traditional position has become inflexible, so that they can no longer teach, only preach. To really teach, you have to consider the viewpoint of the people (and this is important) who have asked you to teach them. Jesus sat down with the tax collectors and debated with the Pharisees, all of whom came to him when he was teaching.

Mankind has been given many great teachers all around the world from prehistory to the present, not just in the Middle East. As Jesus said: "In my Father's house are many mansions". It was indirectly through the teachings of Lao Tzu and Buddha (and directly through my late Taijiquan teachers) that I myself came to recognise how important Jesus' message was to my studies. It is a personal thing, though, I don't expect my students to be of any particular religion, or even religious at all. I expect them to be kind, caring people, and that is enough.

[Ronin maximus]

To really teach, you have to consider the viewpoint of the people (and this is important) who have asked you to teach them.



True, but sometimes you have to trick people into learning, cause they're so stubborn or blinded by their "Faith":D

[Ronin maximus]

Here's my proof that chi vampires do exist.........

Take a look at almost any thread in this forum and you'll see all of its' trolls who suck away your energy, over the internet no less, when all you mean to do is have a meaningful debate or share some insight.

Scholar,
You summed it all up on page 1 of this thread. But then comes the troll and tries to show that only his way is "The Way" thusly becoming a Chi vampire and victimizing everyone who debates with him:D

Seriously though, you are one of the few voices of reason on this forum and judging by your posts on this thread, one of the few worthy of respect.
Where do you teach?

[NJM]

That is unfortunately often true, which I get into above. The traditional position has become inflexible, so that they can no longer teach, only preach. To really teach, you have to consider the viewpoint of the people (and this is important) who have asked you to teach them. Jesus sat down with the tax collectors and debated with the Pharisees, all of whom came to him when he was teaching.

Mankind has been given many great teachers all around the world from prehistory to the present, not just in the Middle East. As Jesus said: "In my Father's house are many mansions". It was indirectly through the teachings of Lao Tzu and Buddha (and directly through my late Taijiquan teachers) that I myself came to recognise how important Jesus' message was to my studies. It is a personal thing, though, I don't expect my students to be of any particular religion, or even religious at all. I expect them to be kind, caring people, and that is enough.

Thank You.

[Scott R. Brown]

Here's my proof that chi vampires do exist.........

Take a look at almost any thread in this forum and you'll see all of its' trolls who suck away your energy, over the internet no less, when all you mean to do is have a meaningful debate or share some insight.


Hi Ronin maximus,

No one can take our energy from us. We give it up to them. We allow them to take it.

It is our attitudes that cause us to experience an energy drain when in the presence of those to take energy.This is because we do not carefully attended to our attitudes of mind. It is carelessness with our own attitudes that makes us vulnerable. We do it to ourselves. To be sure we do it unwittingly, but still, we are responsible for our own loss in this regard!

Ch'an philosophy would say that it is due to ignorance or erroneous thoughts/beliefs/attitudes. That is, we have false or erroneous beliefs/attitudes that create the vulnerability within us. A clear understanding of what is occurring and an unattached attitude towards the results of our comments and actions makes us impervious to the energy loss.

A person who drains energy from others is a vulnerable person. I liken it to a drowning person. The first thing one learns in a water life saving course is that a drowning person will climb over their savior in order to survive; they will drown the person who is trying to save them. It is a mindless and desperate act. All they can think of is their own survival. They are unable to perceive that their actions are endangering themselves. The same phenomenon occurs with those who are emotionally drowning. Their actions are motivated by a survival mentality. They become parasitic of the energy of others because of their own inner emptiness. They are essentially a bucket with a hole in it. The bucket needs constant refilling because they do not attend to the hole, but only the filling of the bucket. To keep their bucket from draining they seek to manipulate the emotions of others and this drains energy if the target is not attending to their own attitudes.

[scholar]

No one can take our energy from us. We give it up to them. We allow them to take it.

Yes. Knowingly or unknowingly, our permission is necessary for this to happen. People who don't know this rule can be intimidated into releasing ownership, but once they know the score, they become much less vulnerable. This was originally the point of Mary and the Rosary, IMO, to remind people of this principle. But like internet spam, the attempts keep coming, so a daily renewal is necessary.

I'll also say in agreement with the sentiment expressed in the last post that thieves ultimately are only hurting themselves. What really belongs to us cannot be taken forever. I believe we will get everything that is lost back, even if we throw it away, as mentioned in the I Ching. How long that will take is anyone's guess, though.

To answer R. maximus, I teach in Detroit for www.wustyledetroit.com - I'm not the senior instructor, but I've been working with them for 20 years now, and it has been an interesting ride.

[TenTigers]

all this is bull -unless someone here has had a gwai jaht

[RonH]

Gwai jaht?

[JDK]

Yes. Knowingly or unknowingly, our permission is necessary for this to happen. People who don't know this rule can be intimidated into releasing ownership, but once they know the score, they become much less vulnerable. This was originally the point of Mary and the Rosary, IMO, to remind people of this principle. But like internet spam, the attempts keep coming, so a daily renewal is necessary.

I'll also say in agreement with the sentiment expressed in the last post that thieves ultimately are only hurting themselves. What really belongs to us cannot be taken forever. I believe we will get everything that is lost back, even if we throw it away, as mentioned in the I Ching. How long that will take is anyone's guess, though.

To answer R. maximus, I teach in Detroit for www.wustyledetroit.com - I'm not the senior instructor, but I've been working with them for 20 years now, and it has been an interesting ride.

In my opinion you guys are giving too much credit to those who are NOT nice people.

There ARE those out there who, like anything else in life..seem to gravitate towards the evil and "how can I gain more power without the hard work"
mentality.

I believe that in the Traditional Martial Arts World...there are those who have obtained the abilities like The Indirect Method of Iron Palm, Astral Projection (under a differnt Martial Arts name of course) and other powers that take along time to develop, just so they can use them for less than benign purposes.

A "Chi Vampire" is one who projects their spirt-body to where you are Meditating or doing Chi-Gong ( in other words you are vunerable) and they draw your vital energy to add to their own, or replace some they have lost. The only awareness you might have while this is happening is that you feel slightly drained
or cannot focus or concentrate as well as you normally can.

Now as some have pointed out there are other types of "energy -sucker-outers"
( just made that word up:D ) who without realizing it, take up a a lot of your time by demanding your attention, at the expense of the rest of the class or maybe even call you frequently at home to ask questions, seek advice, etc....

I guess my teachers' main point in teaching this principle to me was to make me alert to the fact that there is a criminal element in most things in life...and that TMA is not an exception.

You can take the advice or leave it...I just say be careful WHO you share your intimate daily schedule wiith.
JDK
PS: And they DONT need your permission either. By wilingly surrendering your will to enter into the soirit realm, unless you are trained...you are vunerable.

[JDK]

Yes. Knowingly or unknowingly, our permission is necessary for this to happen. People who don't know this rule can be intimidated into releasing ownership, but once they know the score, they become much less vulnerable. This was originally the point of Mary and the Rosary, IMO, to remind people of this principle. But like internet spam, the attempts keep coming, so a daily renewal is necessary.

I'll also say in agreement with the sentiment expressed in the last post that thieves ultimately are only hurting themselves. What really belongs to us cannot be taken forever. I believe we will get everything that is lost back, even if we throw it away, as mentioned in the I Ching. How long that will take is anyone's guess, though.

To answer R. maximus, I teach in Detroit for www.wustyledetroit.com - I'm not the senior instructor, but I've been working with them for 20 years now, and it has been an interesting ride.

In my opinion you guys are giving too much credit to those who are NOT nice people.

There ARE those out there who, like anything else in life..seem to gravitate towards the evil and "how can I gain more power without the hard work"
mentality.

I believe that in the Traditional Martial Arts World...there are those who have obtained the abilities like The Indirect Method of Iron Palm, Astral Projection (under a differnt Martial Arts name of course) and other powers that take along time to develop, just so they can use them for less than benign purposes.

A "Chi Vampire" is one who projects their spirt-body to where you are Meditating or doing Chi-Gong ( in other words you are vunerable) and they draw your vital energy to add to their own, or replace some they have lost. The only awareness you might have while this is happening is that you feel slightly drained
or cannot focus or concentrate as well as you normally can.

Now as some have pointed out there are other types of "energy -sucker-outers"
( just made that word up:D ) who without realizing it, take up a a lot of your time by demanding your attention, at the expense of the rest of the class or maybe even call you frequently at home to ask questions, seek advice, etc....

I guess my teachers' main point in teaching this principle to me was to make me alert to the fact that there is a criminal element in most things in life...and that TMA is not an exception.

You can take the advice or leave it...I just say be careful WHO you share your intimate daily schedule wiith.

JDK PS: And sorry to contradict..they DONT need your permission.
By entering into the spirit realm, you reliquish certain natural
protections that are built into our concious minds. The spirit
realm is a whole different ball game, with different rules that
one need be aware of.

[scholar]

Basically, the world is messed up. It is full of greedy fearful people who make it their business to steal from others every day. Is that giving them "credit" or a simple acknowledgement of what we see around us? As Jesus said: "The world hated me before it hated you." Bullies of whatever sort foster a spirit of fear in their intended victims. If you yourself don't have a spirit of fear, how can they bother you? Are you the head or the tail? Being blessed isn't the same as being stupid, however. If it is, it isn't really a blessing. Martial art training should be realistic, and an experienced teacher can help students avoid trouble before it starts by being able to teach how to recognize it.

To say that the conscious mind is more protected than the spirit is where we disagree. The conscious mind is much more susceptible to manipulation than the heart or spirit, IME.

[mantis108]

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/6356/pakuacounteractingix92vy.gif (http://imageshack.us)

http://img255.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pakuacounteractingix92vy.gif


Please note the pentagram inside the Paqua Circle.

THIS is the picture I meant to post before ( sorry)

Again..I do not think this a purposeful attempt of any Master, Style or Martial Artist.
I just think when you compare all the evidence , we will find a re-occurring pattern .

Please stay tuned and hear me out.
Believe it or not I WANT to be wrong! As I have said from the beginning I love the Arts
but if they conflict with my faith and the Inspired Word of God ( the Bible)....I must
obey the Lord.

JD

Enough trolling and horsing around, JDK.

Your degree of ignorance on the subject of Yijing (classic of change) diagrams is so horrendously terrible that no word in the English dictionary can cover it.

You posted 2 different diagrams, which are flawed drawing to begin with, that you can't even intelligently discern the difference between two let alone understanding what they represent individually. The pantegram sign as you pointed out is laughable. You choose to ignore the "cross" in the diagrams, which is most obvious, but you attempte to twist that to your spin. Yeah, that is a cross/crucifix in the diagrams and anyone can clearly see that. If they are evil by your admission, then the cross must have been equally evil as well since it is found in the Yijing diagrams (and other cultures' symbols too). How on earth can you claim yourself to be some kind of a credible expert on the subject matter?

Personally, I think you need professional help (from the posts that you have been posting in various threads) and please stop continuing your imaginary "church" work. You are really poisoning others mind with uneducated, unintelligent, incomplete information rather than doing an meaningful "God's" work.

Mantis108

[NJM]

A "Chi Vampire" is one who projects their spirt-body to where you are Meditating or doing Chi-Gong ( in other words you are vunerable) and they draw your vital energy to add to their own, or replace some they have lost. The only awareness you might have while this is happening is that you feel slightly drained
or cannot focus or concentrate as well as you normally can.

JDK PS: And sorry to contradict..they DONT need your permission.
By entering into the spirit realm, you reliquish certain natural
protections that are built into our concious minds. The spirit
realm is a whole different ball game, with different rules that
one need be aware of.

This chunk is slightly more accurate than the other stuff. The case is this: When you enter the "spirit realm" (which is basically as much of a "realm" as the internet is a "realm.")The "spirit realm" is just a connected network of minds, to put in in an awfully innaccurate sense. When you give yourself a mental avatar, like most people do when meditating, you're in the ring. So what's my point?

They don't need your permission, but they do need to beat you. They have to kick the ass of every avatar you have in your mind and once they've done that, your internal landscape will be a muddled, blurry mess. That's when they "get your energy." Which is basically just messing you up until you re-establish yourself. Masters who can do this might be able to kill you, I have no idea. If you don't have a developed image of yourself, take great precaution in entering into the internal landscape, which is sort of like moving to a universal pattern. Obviously it will be a lot harder to target someone if the "enemy" doesn't know when or where you meditate. If you fear it, that doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. Just be aware. The biggest warning sign you can get is if an "image" enters your mind that is so alien to your perception that it is impossible for it to be created by your own self.

NOTE: The previous notion was expressed through metaphor and is to be accepted figuratively. This is just how I've had to deal with it. My way is not more right than yours. That's just how my mind developed to abstract it into something I can understand, in the same manner that different computer languages express bianary to operate on a higher scale; No one language is better than the other, because they are all metaphor for bianary.

[TenTigers]

"Chi Vampire" is one who projects their spirt-body to where you are Meditating or doing Chi-Gong ( in other words you are vunerable) and they draw your vital energy to add to their own, or replace some they have lost."

That would probably be referred to as an incubus or succubus-male and female, respectively. In actuality, a vampire doesn't have to project, or anything. They can be simply next to you, speak to you,be in the same room with you. They can draw energy during sex, such as tantric methods, or simply in conversation. They can possess an article of jewelry that is drawing-even without their knowledge. Or it can be done with intent. You can be drained emotionally-which saps your energy as well. We have all been there. Stress drains your "vital force".
You are vulnerable because you lack protection,or are "projecting" to these people.They will be attracted to you. (like gheydar) Some people have what some refer to as auric wounds, similar to the vampire seeing an open wound, like in the movies. They "see" the open wound in the aura and are drawn to it.
There are also leeches, that latch onto yu and drain you.
(My mom said I was one.):D

[JDK]

Good accurate Post TenTigers.

My personal belief is the only true, reliable protection at all times....is to be a child of the Living God, covered in the Blood of Jesus His Son.

Daily prayer and asking the Lord for protection is vital.

Also dont get into the "Arena" of Eastern Style Meditation where you are trained
to blank out your mind. God gave us our concious frontal lobe of the Brain as a Watcher or Keeper of the Door of our spirit.

Keep your concious mind up... and you will avoid alot of potential heartache.
Also before sleeping at night a simple prayer in your own word for protection is a good idea;)

Just my opinion

JDK
In Search Of Truth

[TenTigers]

"child of the Living God, covered in the Blood of Jesus His Son."-sounds lovely. I can't imagine why anyone would have issues with converting to Christianity.
Now, at a theatre near you...Wes Craven's "Testament-the Revenge of the Messiah!"
Yeah, a bit over the top for me. But some of what you were saying has merit. After all, man gravitates toward spirituality. Every culture has this. Every religion/spiritual belief says the same thing, there were many prophets,avatars,buddhas, just in different "languages".
As far as the messiah is concerned, mesheach-in Hebrew, simply means a spiritual awakening of man on earth. It was never meant to be interpeted as any one person. That was a curruption of the original meaning, which came many years after Christ.(you may want to look into the Nicean Council) So, as far as a second coming-don't look for it outside. Look for it within.

[JDK]

"child of the Living God, covered in the Blood of Jesus His Son."-sounds lovely. I can't imagine why anyone would have issues with converting to Christianity.
Now, at a theatre near you...Wes Craven's "Testament-the Revenge of the Messiah!"
Yeah, a bit over the top for me. But some of what you were saying has merit. After all, man gravitates toward spirituality. Every culture has this. Every religion/spiritual belief says the same thing, there were many prophets,avatars,buddhas, just in different "languages".
As far as the messiah is concerned, mesheach-in Hebrew, simply means a spiritual awakening of man on earth. It was never meant to be interpeted as any one person. That was a curruption of the original meaning, which came many years after Christ.(you may want to look into the Nicean Council) So, as far as a second coming-don't look for it outside. Look for it within.

One major difference TenTigers...............


Jesus rose from the dead.:) Christianity rises or falls on that historical fact.

May I recommend The "Case For Christ by Lee Strobel

http://www.leestrobel.com/
It is an excellant scholarly book of an athiest setting out to prove the Resurrection was a Fraud.......

JDK
PS- And I am familiar with the Council of Nicean.....

[lunghushan]

One major difference TenTigers...............

Jesus rose from the dead.:) Christianity rises or falls on that historical fact.

...

PS- And I am familiar with the Council of Nicean.....

Dude, there's no proof of this anywhere. There are some books that claim that, but if you look at the other books that were thrown out of the Council of Nicea, you will find a lot of references to things that make a good case that this Christianity cult made up a lot of stories to get converts.

How can you call it a historical fact? There is no historical fact. There is NO PROOF for this assertion. You accept it based upon your belief, but there is no proof anywhere for it.

Anyways, I give up ... I just hope the Falun Gong people don't get on this board again. It's like we got rid of Juna and now we've got JDK.

[JDK]

Dude, there's no proof of this anywhere. There are some books that claim that, but if you look at the other books that were thrown out of the Council of Nicea, you will find a lot of references to things that make a good case that this Christianity cult made up a lot of stories to get converts.

How can you call it a historical fact? There is no historical fact. There is NO PROOF for this assertion. You accept it based upon your belief, but there is no proof anywhere for it.

Anyways, I give up ... I just hope the Falun Gong people don't get on this board again. It's like we got rid of Juna and now we've got JDK.

Not true.
I am willing to bet you didnt even glance a the Lee Strobel Link I posted, let along watch just one or 2 video clips.

http://www.leestrobel.com/

There is plenty of historical recoeds and proof.
Ceasar even sent spies to check out this Jesus who was stirring up such a fuss with reports of Miracles and Healings.

And IF you decide to claim that you dont believe because of lack of evidence, I would be careful going down that slippery slope...you had better be prepared to say you dont believe in much of Early World & American history since you didnt meet them...nor were there any camera's , photographs, etc...to PROVE they existed.

We have about 5900 years of human history without much proof that it really happened..and yet you accept that as fact.

No double standard...more people saw Jesus than Julius Ceasar
Alexander the Great ( 335 BC)
The Babaloynians, Egyptions, Christopher Columbus, ect....I could go on.

It is historical fact that Paul and the early church changed the course of History
( Roman Empire)

Records proving the existance of Buddah, Sun Tzu,( The Art of War) are no more convincing than the ecords of the existance of Jesus as his Resurrection.

I man..we only have drawings of George Washington !!!! How do you know HE really existed ?????

Check out the Lee Stroble, (a hard-core atheist) site...please

JDK

[JDK]

http://www.preteristarchive.com/StudyArchive/c/clement-of-rome.

Clement ( 30-70 AD) EARLY CHURCH WRITER AND "REPORTER"

[scholar]

The Catholic church claims Clement of Rome as a pope, but the dates you give are off, skewed somewhat backwards by about 30 years.

Look at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Clement_I

It is well known academically that there is no contemporary record of Yeshu'ah the Nazorean (YSH NZR in Hebrew). The first reliable writings are ascribed to Paul of Tarsus, the very earliest surviving being from the 50s AD, 20 years after the crucifixion. Professor Bart Ehrmann, a well known authority in New Testament Greek, does a good job of describing how the gospels we have were written and re-written for 400-500 years before the church settled on the version it liked.

It is OK to make an argument for the importance of Jesus as a matter of belief, but if you are going to argue facts, you should have them straight first.

[NJM]

Not true.

We have about 5900 years of human history without much proof that it really happened..and yet you accept that as fact.


JDK

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiocarbon_dating

Oh, would you mind not double-posting? You can edit your posts, you know.

[Justaguy]

Not true.
I am willing to bet you didnt even glance a the Lee Strobel Link I posted, let along watch just one or 2 video clips.

http://www.leestrobel.com/

There is plenty of historical recoeds and proof.
Ceasar even sent spies to check out this Jesus who was stirring up such a fuss with reports of Miracles and Healings.

JDK

There are no contemporary historical accounts of Jesus. I don't say that to call any of the details of your faith into question. But if anyone living in the time of Christ did write about him, there is no existing records of it.

Josephus wrote about him, but he was born in 37AD, after Jesus was already dead. The Gospels were written around 70AD.

I didn't have time to root through all of the sites that you linked to - if you can point to the specific contemporary records of Jesus' existance, please do. If Ceaser did send people to spy on Jesus and they did leave record, that fact somehow has been neglected by every book I've read on the history of Christianity.

It took some 300 or so years before there were accounts of the life of Sun Zi, whatever thats worth.

[JDK]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiocarbon_dating

Oh, would you mind not double-posting? You can edit your posts, you know.

Didnt realize I double posted...sorry

http://www.pathlights.com/ce_encyclopedia/06dat3.htm

...So much for "Carbon Dating"....it has been disproved along time ago.

JDK

[JDK]

There are no contemporary historical accounts of Jesus. I don't say that to call any of the details of your faith into question. But if anyone living in the time of Christ did write about him, there is no existing records of it.

Josephus wrote about him, but he was born in 37AD, after Jesus was already dead. The Gospels were written around 70AD.

I didn't have time to root through all of the sites that you linked to - if you can point to the specific contemporary records of Jesus' existance, please do. If Ceaser did send people to spy on Jesus and they did leave record, that fact somehow has been neglected by every book I've read on the history of Christianity.

It took some 300 or so years before there were accounts of the life of Sun Zi, whatever thats worth.

There are at least 5200 Manuscripts in existance, most all agree in info, on the existence and reliability of the acts of Jesus of Nazereth

http://www.intervarsity.org/evangelism/article_item.php?article_id=1598

Please take note of the Chart on Link showing the much longer time periods of information and writings of other historical figures.



JDK

[Justaguy]

There are at least 5200 Manuscripts in existance, most all agree in info, on the existence and reliability of the acts of Jesus of Nazereth

http://www.intervarsity.org/evangelism/article_item.php?article_id=1598

Please take note of the Chart on Link showing the much longer time periods of information and writings of other historical figures.



JDK

Those are not contemporary historical accounts. A contemporary account would be from the time in which Jesus was alive - that page suggests that such records probably existed, but we only have documents that are derived from those documents.

[NJM]

Didnt realize I double posted...sorry

http://www.pathlights.com/ce_encyclopedia/06dat3.htm

...So much for "Carbon Dating"....it has been disproved along time ago.

JDK

The information on that site is corrupt because it is written in a pro-creationism context. These are the people who think that if you traveled >6000 years into the past, you would end up in empty space. Carbon dating is only less accurate than one presumed, but it can still give a general sense of the object's date. Pease do not try to pull the "well you can't see the air but it's there" theory. Why do you need to search for facts about Jesus's existence? If you really have faith you wouldn't have to search for proof of his existence.

[scholar]

Radioisotope decay rates are a constant, subject to environmental factors that affect absorption. Calibrating Carbon 14 data with tree ring surveys has provided excellent results, and archaeologists and other scientists rely on the info they get from carbon dating all the time.

Carbon 14 has only been disproved to those who already wanted it disproved.

This is no longer an argument, it is a shouting match, so I'm done. I mostly just wanted people to know that there are those of us who find value in intelligently discussing religion. Religion is an emotional subject, but it is a mistake confuse emotion with spirituality. If the emotion is coming from a confused person, it is confused emotion, and is easily manipulated for money by unscrupulous mega churchers, for example.

No, there has to be real, practical value in the ethical nature of any such discussions about what the great religious teachers taught. Jesus taught mercy and forgiveness, yet how much of that have we ever seen from the "Bible Belt"? Blind church ritual and loudly repeating "approved" magic spells do not create stable societies where people are allowed to grow and learn. They create a climate of fear where social security check grannies fork over their life savings to self-appointed theocrats who live high on the hog with their mansions, yachts, sportscars, booze, meth and prostitutes.

Investigating, thoroughly, the history of any religion or group of religions is essential. Don't trust what modern followers say, you have to go back to the source to find out what really happened, for yourself. It's worth it.

See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Documentary_hypothesis

[JDK]

Radioisotope decay rates are a constant, subject to environmental factors that affect absorption. Calibrating Carbon 14 data with tree ring surveys has provided excellent results, and archaeologists and other scientists rely on the info they get from carbon dating all the time.

Carbon 14 has only been disproved to those who already wanted it disproved.

This is no longer an argument, it is a shouting match, so I'm done. I mostly just wanted people to know that there are those of us who find value in intelligently discussing religion. Religion is an emotional subject, but it is a mistake confuse emotion with spirituality. If the emotion is coming from a confused person, it is confused emotion, and is easily manipulated for money by unscrupulous mega churchers, for example.

No, there has to be real, practical value in the ethical nature of any such discussions about what the great religious teachers taught. Jesus taught mercy and forgiveness, yet how much of that have we ever seen from the "Bible Belt"? Blind church ritual and loudly repeating "approved" magic spells do not create stable societies where people are allowed to grow and learn. They create a climate of fear where social security check grannies fork over their life savings to self-appointed theocrats who live high on the hog with their mansions, yachts, sportscars, booze, meth and prostitutes.

Investigating, thoroughly, the history of any religion or group of religions is essential. Don't trust what modern followers say, you have to go back to the source to find out what really happened, for yourself. It's worth it.

See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Documentary_hypothesis

Excellent well documented Link Scholar.
Logical...and well researched.

It doent change the fact that Jesus rose from the Grave.!!:)

He showed Himself to many...

John 20:30
And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:

20:31
But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

John 21:25
And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

We also have Paul's writing later...that MOST the very eyewitnesses were still alive at the time of his Letter to the Church at Corith..and some had died.

1Corthians 15:6
After that, he was seen of above [u]five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present[/u,] but some are fallen asleep.

As I mentioned before. these early believers and eyewitnesses were tortured, hunted and killed when Nero leveled Jeruselum...and yet they stuck by their story, unwilling to recant even in he face of watching family members die right before their eyes.

I highly recommend Foxes Book Of The Martyrs...it gives a chilling account by a person who had no reason to make up his accounts of the suffering of the Early Chruch once persecution broke out. It is a trusted classic, by believers and non believers alike

http://www.ccel.org/f/foxe/martyrs/home.html

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/foxe/martyrs/?id=foxe/martyrs


JDK

[lunghushan]

I didn't say there was no historical evidence of Jesus. I said there's no evidence he rose from the grave.

There's also stories that the Romans stole Jesus body from the tomb because they were worried if his body was there that he'd become a martyr, and this is where all the stories of 'rose from the grave' came from.

Anyways, whatever. All I can say, JDK, is I absolutely abhor Christians because of people like you. Religious fanatics, IMHO, are the curse of this earth, and even worse than just regular stupid people.

BTW, if you prove with science that someone can 'rise from the grave', then maybe it will give your claims some credence. But until then you do sound pretty much like a lunatic. At least though you're not claiming to have seen Satan like my dad claims he has.

[scholar]

So, if he rose from the grave, what does it mean? That's the important thing. Good, so if we accept for the sake of argument that he rose from the grave, now what? Did he see his shadow and go back in?

Seriously, the answer isn't simple either, because it has to realistically address why he was killed in the first place. Why was he killed? What was it about the story that makes it necessary for someone horribly killed by the Romans to come back to life?

Then you have to sort through why Mark shows him freaking out because he felt he was completely abandoned by God on the cross and why Luke shows him calm and serene and talking about the certainty of heaven? Which was it? Which version are we to believe? Academics think Mark was earlier, so why did Luke write about a "superman Jesus" just a few years after Mark's (more believable) human Jesus?

These are rhetorical questions, because I think I have some understanding of the answers (or at least I flatter myself that I do). I'm not asking these things to be a jerk about any of this, but because having actual answers to these questions is important to understanding and discussing, say, most of ensuing western civilization. How the heck did this particular group of stories end up taking over all of Europe (and most of the Americas) for the next 1500 years? And why are they so rapidly losing steam today? And then, how do they tie into the question of how to deal with people who suck the life's blood out of the people around them?

These are the kinds of issues that I sometimes find interesting. :confused:

[JDK]

I didn't say there was no historical evidence of Jesus. I said there's no evidence he rose from the grave.

You must have meant to say because the historical Figure Paul and John write about it...you just wont believe thier word:

1Corthians 15:6
After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present but some are fallen asleep.

Or...........[b]http://www.earthharvest.org/en/christian_online_bible_apologetics/proofthereisagod/5JesusChristSonofgodEvidence.htm

"The meaning of the resurrection is a theological matter, but the fact of the resurrection is a historical matter; the nature of the resurrection body of Jesus may be a mystery, but the fact that the body disappeared from the tomb is a matter to be decided upon by historical evidence. The place is of geographical definiteness, the man who owned the tomb was a man living in the first half of the first century; the tomb was made out of rock in a hillside near Jerusalem, and was not composed of some mythological gossamer, or cloud-dust, but is something which has geographical significance. The guards put before the tomb were not aerial beings from Mt. Olympus; the Sanhedrin was a body of men meeting frequently in Jerusalem. As a vast mass of literature tells us, this person, Jesus, was a living person, a man among men, whatever else He was, and the disciples who went out to preach the risen Lord were men among men, men who ate, drank, slept, suffered, worked, died. What is there ‘doctrinal’ about this? This is a historical problem" (page 386).

"Let it simply be said the we know more about the details of the hours immediately before and the actual death of Jesus, in and near Jerusalem, than we know about the death of any other one man in all the ancient world" (Page 360).

The resurrection of Christ enjoys a wealth of evidence which includes:

1. The testimony of history:

A Jewish historian by the name of Josephus wrote at the end of the first century AD, in his Antiquities: "Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him many Jews, and also many of the Greeks. This man was the Christ. And when Pilate had condemned him to the cross, upon his impeachment by the principal man among us, those who had loved from the first did not forsake him, for he appeared to them alive on the third day, the divine prophets having spoken these and thousands of other wonderful things about him. And even now, the race of Christians, so named from him, has not died out."

Josephus was a Jew trying to please the Romans and he would not have related this story if it were not true as it was not pleasing to the Romans, portraying Pilate as condemning the "Christ."

2. The testimony of the apostles:

Simon Greenleaf, Professor of Law at Harvard University, wrote in An Examination of the Testimony of the Four Evangelists by the Rules of Evidence Administered in the Courts of Justice: "The great truths which the apostles declared, were that Christ had risen from the dead, and that only through repentance from sin, and faith in Him, could men hope for salvation. This doctrine they asserted with one voice, everywhere, not only under the greatest discouragements, but in the face of the most appalling errors that can be presented to the mind of man. Their master had recently perished as a malefactor, by the sentence of a public tribunal. His religion sought to overthrow the religions of the whole world. The laws of every country were against the teachings of His disciples. The interests and passions of all the rulers and great men in the world were against them. The fashion of the world was against them. Propagating this new faith, even in the most inoffensive and peaceful manner, they could expect nothing but contempt, opposition, revilings, bitter persecutions, stripes, imprisonments, torments and cruel deaths. Yet this faith they zealously did propagate; and all these miseries they endured undismayed, nay, rejoicing. As one after another was put to a miserable death, the survivors only prosecuted their work with increased vigor and resolution. The annals of military warfare afford scarcely an example of the like heroic constancy, patience, and unblenching courage. They had every possible motive to review carefully the grounds of their faith, and the evidences of the great facts and truths which they asserted; and these motives were pressed upon their attention with the most melancholy and terrific frequency. It was therefore impossible that they could have persisted in affirming the truths they have narrated, had not Jesus actually risen from the dead, and had they not known this fact as certainly as they knew any other fact" (Greenleaf, Simon. Testimony of the Evangelists, Examined by the Rules of Evidence Administered in Courts of Justice. Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1965 (reprinted from 1847 edition).

After the crucifixion the apostles went into hiding, afraid of the persecution of the authorities (certainly not possessing the courage of breaking into Jesus’ tomb and "stealing" his body as the chief priests bribed the guards to represent), yet of the twelve apostles, eleven went on to die martyr’s deaths preaching that Jesus is the Son of God who rose from the dead. Peter denied Jesus several times after Jesus had been arrested but a short time after his crucifixion and burial Peter was in Jerusalem preaching boldly under the threat of death that Jesus was the Son of God who was resurrected. So fervent was Peter’s faith that when it came time for his own crucifixion he asked to be crucified upside down because he was not worthy to die as Christ had. Thomas who had put his fingers in Jesus’ nail prints to believe died a martyr’s death when he was thrust through with a spear. James, Jesus’ brother, who had been skeptical of His claims died a martyr’s death by stoning after Jesus appeared to him (1 Corinthians 15:7).

It is hard to die for a lie. In recent history we’ve seen some die for political causes they believe in, but none die for what they don’t believe in. Something transformed these intimidated, cowering apostles into powerful spokesmen of their faith. Jesus had appeared to them. In the Book of Acts we are told that Jesus had presented Himself alive to his apostles. "He also presented Himself alive, after His suffering, by many convincing proofs, appearing to them over a period of forty days, and speaking of the things concerning the kingdom of God" (Acts 1:3, NASB).

3. Jesus had in fact died on the cross:

While hanging on the cross, "When Jesus....had received the sour wine, He said, ‘It is finished!’ And He bowed His head, and gave up His spirit. The Jews therefore, because it was the day of preparation, so that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for the Sabbath was a high day), asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away. The soldiers therefore came, and broke the legs of the first man, and of the other man who was crucified with Him; but coming to Jesus, when they saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs; but one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately there came out blood and water. And he who has seen has borne witness, and his witness is true; and he knows that he is telling the truth, so that you also may believe" (John 19:30-35, NASB).

"And someone ran and filled a sponge with sour wine, put it on a reed, and gave Him a drink, saying, ‘Let us see whether Elijah will come to take Him down.’ And Jesus uttered a loud cry, and breathed His last. And the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. And when the centurion, who was standing right in front of Him, saw the way He breathed His last, he said, ‘Truly this man was the Son of God!" (Mark 15:36-39, NASB).

"And when evening had already come, because it was the Preparation Day, that is, the day before the Sabbath, Joseph of Arimathea came, a prominent member of the Council, a man who was himself waiting for the kingdom of God; and he gathered up courage and went in before Pilate, and asked for the body of Jesus. And Pilate wondered if He was dead by this time, and summoning the centurion, he questioned him as to whether He was already dead. And ascertaining this from the centurion, he granted the body to Joseph" (Mark 15:42-45, NASB). The centurion had knowledge that Jesus had died, otherwise he would not have confirmed the fact to Pilate and Pilate would not have granted the body to Joseph of Arimathea for burial.

"And Joseph bought a linen sheet, took Him down, wrapped Him in the linen sheet, and laid Him in a tomb which had been hewn out in the rock; and he rolled a stone against the entrance of the tomb. And Mary Magdalene and Mary, the mother of Jesus were looking on to see where He was laid" (Mark 15:46-47, NASB).

4. The Stone:

Mary Magdalene and Mary, the mother of Jesus, came to anoint Jesus on the first day of the week when the Sabbath was over. The women were concerned and discussing who would roll away the stone from the entrance of the tomb so they could anoint Jesus with the spices they had bought. When they arrived at the tomb, the stone "had been rolled away, although it was extremely large" (Mark 16:1,3,4, NASB). Matthew also describes the stone as "a large stone" (Matthew 27:60). It is generally believed the stone weighed about two tons.

[JDK]

5. The Seal:

Of more importance than the size of the stone, aside from the fact that a large stone would have deterred potential robbers, was the seal which was set on the stone. The Pharisees went to Pilate and informed him that Jesus had said that after three days he would rise again. They requested that Pilate give orders that the grave be made secure until the third day, "lest the disciples come and steal Him away and say to the people, ‘He has risen from the dead,’ and the last deception will be worse than the first.’ Pilate said to them, ‘You have a guard; go, make it as secure as you know how.’ And they went and made the grave secure, and along with the guard they set a seal on the stone" (Matthew 27:64-66).

A.T. Robertson in Word Pictures in the New Testament (New York: R.R. Smith, Inc., 1931) described the probable method used in sealing the stone "...probably by a cord stretched across the stone and sealed at each end as in Dan. 6:17(‘And a stone was brought and laid over the mouth of the den; and the king sealed it with his own signet ring and with the signet rings of his nobles, so that nothing might be changed in regard to Daniel.’). The sealing was done in the presence of the Roman guards who were left in charge to protect this stamp of Roman authority and power. They did their best to prevent theft and the resurrection (Bruce), but they overreached themselves and provided additional witness to the fact of the empty tomb and the resurrection of Jesus (Plummer)."


7. The Cover-Up:

Pilate’s response to the Pharisees was "You have a guard," which can be interpreted you may have a Roman guard or you already have your own guard in the form of the temple police. Prevalent authority concludes that a Roman guard was posted. Otherwise, why would the Pharisees go to Pilate to make the grave secure. They wouldn’t have needed Pilate’s authorization to post the temple guard which was under their control. When Jesus resurrected, in fear of Pilate’s wrath, the guards went to the chief priests and reported all that had happened (Matthew 28:11). The chief priests gave the soldiers a large sum of money to misrepresent what had occurred: "You are to say, ‘His disciples came by night and stole Him away while we were asleep.’ ‘And if this should come to the governor’s ears, we will win him over and keep you out of trouble. And they took the money and did as they had been instructed; and this story was widely spread among the Jews, and is to this day" (Matthew 28:13-15, NASB).

Because of the strict discipline in the Roman military, a Roman guard would have reason to fear the consequences of dereliction of duty administered by an angry Pilate who would have accused them of sleeping on the job while the body was stolen, a capital offense (death). Evidently the chief priests had influence over Pilate and promised the fearful Roman guards protection if they lied and sweetened the pot by giving them a large sum of money. The chief priests would not have had to bribe a temple guard under their direct control. Their recourse to bribing the guards evidences Jesus’ body was missing and had not been stolen.


Matthew describes what happened that night while the guard was on duty, "... a severe earthquake had occurred, for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven and came and rolled away the stone and sat upon it. And his appearance was like lightning, and his garment as white as snow; and the guards shook for hear of him, and became like dead men" (Matthew 28:2-4, NASB).

8. Suffering of Jesus:

Some have said that Jesus did not die on the cross, but merely passed out. After he was placed in the tomb, he revived, got up, and left.

What this argument completely overlooks is the physical trials Jesus suffered prior and during the crucifixion leading to his death. Prior to being taken prisoner Jesus traveled on foot throughout Palestine and it is reasonable to assume was in good physical health. Anticipating his ordeal on Thursday evening in Gethsemane Jesus suffered great mental anguish, and, as described by Luke, a physician, sweated blood. Bloody sweat is a rare phenomenon but may occur in very intense emotional states and is the result of hemorrhaging into the sweat glands (William D. Edwards, MD; Wesley J. Gabel, MD; Floyd E. Hosmer, MS., AMI, "On the Physical Death of Jesus Christ," JAMA, March 21, 1986 - Vol 255, No. 11, p. 1455).


Flogging was a legal preliminary to every Roman execution. A short whip was used of several braided or single leather thongs in which were imbedded small iron balls or sharp pieces of sheep bone to tear the flesh. The back, buttocks, and legs were flogged. Flogging was intended to weaken the victim to a state just short of collapse or death. The resulting bleeding set the stage for circulatory shock and determined how long the victim would survive on the cross.

The Roman soldiers spat on Jesus and beat Him on the head, placing on Him a crown of thorns. So weakened was Jesus that the Roman soldiers had to press Simon, a Cyrenian, to bear the cross. Since the entire cross probably weighed over 300 lbs. only the patibulum or crossbar, weighing 75 to 125 lbs., was carried. It was placed across the nape of the victim’s neck and balanced on both shoulders.

Romans preferred to nail their victim’s hands to the crossbar. Remains found in an ossuary near Jerusalem dating from the time of Christ of a crucified victim reveal that tapered iron spikes 5 to 7 inches long and 3/8 inch wide were used. These spikes were driven through the wrists rather than the palms. The Romans also preferred to nail their victims’ feet.

The weight of the body hanging from the cross fixed the intercostal muscles in an inhalation state and severely taxed exhalation. Thus, breathing was shallow and, "Adequate exhalation required lifting the body by pushing up on the feet and by flexing the elbows and adducting the shoulders. However, this maneuver would place the entire weight of the body on the tarsals and would produce searing pain. Furthermore, flexation of the elbows would cause rotation of the wrists about the iron nails and cause fiery pain along the damaged median nerves. Lifting of the body would also painfully scrape the scourged back against the rough wooden stipes. Muscle cramps and paresthesias of the outstretched and uplifted arms would add to the discomfort. As a result, each respiratory effort would become agonizing and tiring and lead eventually to asphyxia" (JAMA, March 21, 1986 - Vol 255, No.11, p.1461).

Survival on the cross ranged from three to four hours to three of four days and was related to the severity of the scourging. When the scourging was relatively mild, Roman soldiers would expedite death by breaking the legs below the knees thereby suffocating the victim. By custom, one of the Roman guards would also pierce with body with a spear wound through the heart or with a sword.

The gospel of John informs us that, "When Jesus...had received the sour wine, He said, ‘It is finished!’ And He bowed His head, and gave up His spirit" (John 19:30). So that the bodies would not remain on the cross on the Sabbath, Pilate was asked that the legs of those crucified might be broken. "The soldiers therefore came, and broke the legs of the first man, and of the other man who was crucified with Him; but coming to Jesus, when they saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs; but one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately there came out blood and water" (John 19:32-34, NASB).

To allege that Jesus "swooned" rather than died on the cross and later revived in the coolness of the tomb, regained his strength after the extensive physical trauma he’d been through (including a spear thrust through the heart), pushed aside a two ton stone, and spent the next forty days ministering to his followers across the Holy Land is ludicrous. To examine the extensive historical evidence of His resurrection attests to his deity and gives us hope that by believing in Him, as he sincerely promised, we have eternal life.

There's also stories that the Romans stole Jesus body from the tomb because they were worried if his body was there that he'd become a martyr, and this is where all the stories of 'rose from the grave' came from.

Anyways, whatever. All I can say, JDK, is I absolutely abhor Christians because of people like you. Religious fanatics, IMHO, are the curse of this earth, and even worse than just regular stupid people.

BTW, if you prove with science that someone can 'rise from the grave', then maybe it will give your claims some credence. But until then you do sound pretty much like a lunatic. At least though you're not claiming to have seen Satan like my dad claims he has.[/QUOTE]

[JDK]

Historical Reliability of the Bible
Are the New Testament documents reliable?

Luke is the consummate historian. For example in Chapter 3, Luke informs us with great specificity, “Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, when Pontius Pilate was governor of Judea, and Herod was tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip was tetrarch of the region of Ituraea and Trachonitis, and Lysanias was tetrarch of Abilene, in the high priesthood of Annas and Caiaphas, the word of God came to John, the son of Zacharias, in the wilderness” (Chapter 3; 1-2).

Tiberius became emperor in August, AD 14, and according to the method of computation employed in Syria which Luke would have followed, his fifteenth year would have commenced in September to October AD 27.

The Fourth Gospel, the Gospel of John, mentions three Passovers from the baptism of Jesus by John until His crucifixion (John 2:13; John 6:4; John 11:55), the Last Supper celebrated before the Feast of the third Passover (John 13:1).

The third Passover from AD 27 would have been in AD 30. It is therefore generally agreed that the crucifixion of Christ took place about AD 30.

When were New Testament gospels written per scholarly opinion?

When the New Testament Gospels were written is important as the memory of a witness to an event fades with time. Events are more accurately recorded if they are recorded when the event is fresh in the recorder’s (witness’s) mind. If information is attenuated with the passage of time the likelihood of error in relating the event is increased.

The Gospel of Luke per prevalent opinion was written by the same author the Acts of the Apostles, who refers to Luke as the “former account.” For example both are addressed to “Theophilus.” They both have a similar style and vocabulary. Historian Colin Hemer provides the following evidence why Acts was written between A.D. 60 and 62:

1. There is no mention in Acts of the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD.
2. The Jewish War of 66 AD between the Jews and Romans is not mentioned.
3. The persecutions of the Christians by Nero in the late 60s is not mentioned.
4. The death of James at the hands of the Sanhedrin in 62 AD recorded by Josephus in “Antiquities of the Jews” is not mentioned.
5. The prominence and power of the Sadducees in Acts reflects a pre-70 date, prior to their subsequent hostility to Rome.
6. In Acts the Pharisees are treated relatively sympathetically which would have been unlikely after the council of Jamnia and the Pharisaic revival leading to renewed conflict with Christianity. This is not the case in Luke’s gospel
7. Acts appears to have been written prior to Peter’s arrival in Rome.
8. Acts was written at a time when Gentile “God-fearers” were permitted in the synagogues, a pre-70 date.

There is now a growing acceptance of earlier New Testament dates. Former liberal scholar William F. Albright states: “We can already say emphatically that there is no longer any solid basis for dating any book of the New Testament after about A.D. 80, two full generations before the date between 130 and 150 given by the more radical New Testament critics of today” (“Recent Discoveries in Bible Lands”, 136 from “Baker Encyclopedia of Christian Apologetics,” Norman L. Geisler).

It is generally believed the Gospel of Luke was written shortly after Acts, Mathew shortly after 70 AD and John around 100 AD. In his book “Redating the New Testament” John A.T. Robinson, renown in launching the “Death of God” movement, places Matthew at 40 to after 60, Mark at about 45 to 60, Luke at before 57 to after 60, and John at from before 40 to after 65. All the gospels would have been written within the lifetimes of the eyewitnesses of the events vouching for the reliability of the gospels. Jose O’Callahan, a Spanish Jesuit paleographer, identified a manuscript fragment from Qumran on March 18, 1972 as a piece of the Gospel of Mark whose date was ascribed to AD 50).

“The date of the writing of Acts depends on the date we affix to the third Gospel, the Gospel of Luke, for both are parts of one historical work, and the second part appears to have been written soon after the first. There are strong arguments for dating the twofold work not long after Paul’s two years’ detention in Rome (AD 60-62)” (F.F. Bruce, “The New Testament Documents: Are They Reliable”).

FF. Bruce continues “The dates of the thirteen Pauline Epistles can be fixed partly by internal and partly by external evidence … There are some writers today who would reject Ephesians; fewer would reject 2 Thessalonians; more would deny that the Pastoral Epistles (1 and 2 Timothy and Titus) came in their present form from the hand of Paul. I accept them all as Pauline, but the remaining eight letters would by themselves be sufficient for our purpose, and it is from these that the main arguments are drawn in our later chapter on ‘The Importance of Paul’s Evidence’.

“Ten of the letters which bear Paul’s name belong to the period before the end of his Roman imprisonment. These ten, in order of writing, may be dated as follows: Galatians 48; 1 and 2 Thessalonians, 50; 1 and 2 Corinthians, 54-56; Romans, 57; Philippians, Colossians, Philemon and Ephesians, c. 60.” The Pastoral Epistles per their diction and historical atmosphere (changed state of affairs in the Pauline churches) were probably compiled later than the other Pauline Epistles in 63-65 AD. This does not present a problem for those who believe in a second imprisonment of Paul in Rome in the year 65 at which time he was probably executed.

[lunghushan]

JDK, no offense, but this was a CULT. It was a bunch of people who wrote texts, and about 350 years or something after it was started, they decided to have a council and decide which cult texts to include in the bible.

That is NOT historical evidence. That is not 'documentation'. In 350 years any sort of stories could have been totally blown out of proportion, anything could be written. It's not proof, it's not evidence, it's NOTHING ... nothing at all. And dating isn't that accurate anyways.

You want evidence, drop an apple from your hand and see how fast it hits the ground. That's evidence.

You want evidence, go to Egypt and look at the Great Pyramid, or Greece, to look at the ruins of the Aparthenon or something.

But the Bible is not evidence. In the Hindu religion there is a book called the Mahabharata that talks about flying chariots, flying darts (missles, whatever), ghandarvas coming from heaven ...

The Hindu book is older than the Bible, and lots of people believe that. You expect me to believe that just because it's written in an old book?

Bottom line is ... there is no proof of this. Nothing at all.

[JDK]

F.F. Bruce concludes that the time between the evangelistic events related in the New Testament and when they were recorded was short giving them trustworthiness as the information would not have been corrupted with time (and subject to mythological embellishments).

Original Documents:

A multiplicity of manuscripts close to the time when the first original manuscript was created is evidence for an uncorrupted “chain of information.” Discrepancies between the oldest available manuscript and the most current copy of the same manuscript helps determine the authenticity of the most currently available manuscript.

German theologians in the 19th century argued that the Gospel of John was not composed until at least 160 AD. Therefore the events related of Jesus’s life were not of much historical use.

A fragment of papyrus about two and half by three and a half inches was purchased in Egypt in 1920 containing five verses from the eighteenth chapter of the gospel of John.

In 1934 C.H. Roberts of Saint John’s College, Oxford, sorted through papyri at the John Rylands Library in Manchester, England and recognized this portion of John’s Gospel. From the style of the script he concluded it originated between A.D. 100 and 150. Adolf Deissman, a prominent paleographer was convinced that this papyrus fragment dates back to at least the reign of Hadrian, the Roman Emperor (117-138 AD) or even Trajan (98-117AD).

The fact that this fragment of a copy was found along the Nile River in Egypt, far from Ephesus in Asia Minor, where John probably composed his gospel, gives credence to an even earlier writing of the Gospel of John as it took time for it to reach Egypt.

Attesting to an earlier authorship of the Gospel of John, William F. Allbright states that evidence from the Qumran community shows that the concepts, terminology, and mind set of the Gospel of John is most likely early first century (“Recent Discoveries in Palestine’ from the “Baker Encyclopedia of Christian Apologetics,” Norman L. Geisler). “Thanks to the Qumran discoveries, the New Testament proves to be in fact what it was formerly believed to be: the teaching of Christ and his immediate followers between cir. 25 and cir. 80 A.D.,” (“From Stone Age to Christianity,” 23).

Manuscripts in Existence

We have in existence 5,664 Greek manuscripts, 8,000 to 10,000 Latin vulgate manuscripts, and 8,000 Ethiopian, Slavic, and Armenian manuscripts (source Lee Strobel’s interview of Bruce M. Metzger in “The Case For Christ”). The Codex Sinaiticus, the only complete New Testament, and the Codex Vaticanus both date to about 350 AD and are all in Greek capital letters.

The New Testament is extremely wealthy in manuscript attestation if compared to the textual material for other ancient historical works.

Quoting F.F. Bruce again, “For Caesar’s “Gallic War” (composed between 58 and 50 BC) there are several extant MSS, but only nine or ten are good, and the oldest is 900 years later than Caesar’s day. Of the 142 books of the Roman History of Livy (59BC –AD 17) only thirty-five survive; these are known to us from not more than twenty MSS of any consequence, only one of which, and that containing fragments of Books iii-vi, is as old as the fourth century. Of the fourteen books of the “Histories” of Tacitus (c.AD 100) only four and a half survive; of the sixteen books of his “Annals,” ten survive in full and two in part. The text of these extant portions of his two great historical works depends entirely on two MSS, one of the ninth century and one of the eleventh.”

“The History of Thucydides (c. 460-400 BC) is known to us from the eight MSS, the earliest belonging to c. AD 900, and a few papyrus scraps, belonging to about the beginning of the Christian era. The same is true of the History of Herodotus (c. 488-428 BC).”

“Yet no classical scholar would listen to an argument that the authenticity of Herodotus or Thucydides is in doubt because the earliest MSS of their works which are of any use to us are over 1,300 years later than the originals.”

[lunghushan]

And there are millions upon millions of comic books out there, on all sorts of topics.

So do you think that the X-Men are real? Spiderman? Hell, there's even 3 Spiderman movies and a cartoon show.

In 2000 years they'll probably think Avatar the Last Airbender is truth or something ... get it??? They'll will probably be a religion around it, if Islam doesn't wipe out everything before then.

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to buy some account just because there's some written words. There's plenty of copies of Plato's works around (ironically because they were preserved by Islam), and you aren't going to believe the story of Atlantis, are you?

No, of course not.

Bottom line is Xtians are annoying. They are annoying in church and they're even more annoying when they come onto boards and start spouting their nonsense. They were annoying when they were a cult during the Roman times, they were annoying when they were killing people in the Crusades, they were annoying when they went around killing 'pagans', they were annoying when Hitler was slaughtering the Jews with the backing of the German church, and they're annoying today with Evangelicals trying to make the U.S. an Xtian nation.

[NJM]

the fact that Jesus rose from the Grave.!!:)

Does it really matter whether he did or not?

You disagree with atheism, do you not? Just so you know, stuff like what you post is what makes people want to be atheists. You refuse to accept without fact, you refuse to accept new ideas. You have no faith in anything, embellishing and making up facts is not faith. What you are doing is trying to shape history and the world into your own image.

You cannot reply to what we post with quotes from fundie websites anymore. You cannot reply to us with quotes from anything that is not unbiased when regarding fact. Quote the bible, but don't quote those who pervert it. Doing what you are doing here is immoral, you regard only select pieces from people's posts. It's incredibly rude to do this, it makes people not want to talk to you. You keep posting two posts in a row before someone posts in between them, instead of just adding to the first post with edit. It is totally rude. Please present your information in a proper fashion.

[lunghushan]

Does it really matter whether he did or not?

The most logical explanation for all of this is that Jesus was the illegitimate child of a poor Jewish couple. Because everybody knew he was a illegitimate he was persecuted, so he probably spent his time as a nerd would spend their time, in the Temple, talking to priests and stuff, because he was probably picked on a lot. They probably didn't have many libraries back then or places where nerds hang out.

Plus, the texts show that he has read the Hebrew texts or at least was very familiar with them. Given the illiteracy of people in that day and age, that would be rare unless he had hung out extensively with priests or people in the temple.

So at some point he decided to start preaching, probably because it was the only way he could get any attention, and got a few followers. Probably not a lot of followers, but a few followers. Probably because the Jews were looking for a Messiah because of the Roman occupation. You also notice he started preaching outside of his hometown, and when he went back to his hometown they gave him a hard time.

So then the Romans decide to crucify him, as they did a lot of people, and they made a tragic error in judgement, because he became a martyr. They started a cult around him, and the cult gained in popularity, because people follow stupid cults as people do.

(They're still following stupid cults such as Christianity and Islam today, with like billions of followers).

The Bible even says there were others crucified that day, and makes mentions of other people preaching at the same time.

Because the Romans probably disposed of his body in the night, trying to NOT make him a martyr, that's probably how the entire 'resurrection' story started.

I mean, give me a break. 'Virgin birth'? 'Resurrection'?? It's a load of hogwash. Bottom line is Jesus was poor illegitimate child of a carpenter, right?

But it still doesn't answer the question is why do billions of people believe in Christianity and Islam? It just doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

Obviously the two religions aren't compatible, so both can't be right. So either the billion+ Christians are right, or the billion+ Muslims are right, or they're BOTH WRONG.

Add to that there are a billion+ Hindus, right? So which is right and which is wrong? It would seem that they can't all be right, correct?

You know, I bet what happened is that Christ started preaching because given his social status, the poor illegitimate son of a carpenter, he probably couldn't become a priest. Plus, priests were Levites, right? He wasn't a Levite. He probably hung around them because of persecution (there's even mentions of Mary taking him to the temple), and started preaching because he wasn't one ... that's probably how all this trouble started.

[NJM]

The most logical explanation for all of this is that Jesus was the cabron child of a poor Jewish couple. Because everybody knew he was a cabron, he was persecuted, so he probably spent his time as a nerd would spend their time, in the Temple, talking to priests and stuff, because he was probably picked on a lot. They probably didn't have many libraries back then or places where nerds hang out.

So at some point he decided to start preaching, probably because it was the only way he could get any attention, and got a few followers. Probably not a lot of followers, but a few followers. Probably because the Jews were looking for a Messiah because of the Roman occupation.

So then the Romans decide to crucify him, as they did a lot of people, and they made a tragic error in judgement, because he became a martyr. They started a cult around him, and the cult gained in popularity, because people follow stupid cults as people do.

(They're still following stupid cults such as Christianity and Islam today, with like billions of followers).

The Bible even says there were others crucified that day, and makes mentions of other people preaching at the same time.

Because the Romans probably disposed of his body in the night, trying to NOT make him a martyr, that's probably how the entire 'resurrection' story started.

I mean, give me a break. 'Virgin birth'? 'Resurrection'?? It's a load of hogwash. Bottom line is Jesus was poor illegitimate child of a carpenter, right?

But it still doesn't answer the question is why do billions of people believe in Christianity and Islam? It just doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

What does that have to do with my post?

[lunghushan]

What does that have to do with my post?

You're asking what does it matter if he rose from the grave or not. I was posting the most likely scenario, which is that the Romans probably moved his body to try to stop him from becoming a martyr. Which totally back-fired.

That simple screwup probably is what started all this nonsense. So I'd say it's pretty important to the whole thing.

[NJM]

You're asking what does it matter if he rose from the grave or not. I was posting the most likely scenario, which is that the Romans probably moved his body to try to stop him from becoming a martyr. Which totally back-fired.

That simple screwup probably is what started all this nonsense. So I'd say it's pretty important to the whole thing.

What I meant was "what does it matter whether or not he was actually ressurected or not, or if his body was just moved?"

[lunghushan]

What I meant was "what does it matter whether or not he was actually ressurected or not, or if his body was just moved?"

Oh ... ??? Who knows ... obviously these people believe he was resurrected for some reason. It's highly doubtful they'd entertain any other possibility.

[mantis108]

"Let it simply be said the we know more about the details of the hours immediately before and the actual death of Jesus, in and near Jerusalem, than we know about the death of any other one man in all the ancient world" (Page 360).

The exact same "truth" (circumstances and all) can be said about General Guan/Kwan whom btw was reportedly saw both by his enemies and many common folks after he was executed by his enemy. So why is General Guan's worship is considered cult thing and the Jesus cult isn't? Why the GD double standard?

Everything that has been presented are no more than circumstantial evidence at best and pure speculations and conjectures in reality. But you have the right to have faith and believe whatever the heck you want. The only thing is that don't hold the GD holier than thou double standard attitude and claiming circumstantial evidences as proofs and facts. Becareful of what kind of water you are walking on, it can drown you just as quickly as it can float you. :cool:

Oh one more thing, to say that your God is the only true GOD means that you MUST acknowledge the existence of other Gods first. It's all relative - Yin Yang. Otherwise there is no need for that kind of a statement. :eek:

Mantis108

[lunghushan]

Oh one more thing, to say that your God is the only true GOD means that you MUST acknowledge the existence of other Gods first. It's all relative - Yin Yang. Otherwise there is no need for that kind of a statement. :eek:

Mantis108

Not to get all sci-fi on you, but if you are dealing with a primitive race that believes in a bunch of deities, you could claim a new deity and say that your deity is the only true (real) deity.

That wouldn't necessarily be acknowledging the existence of other deities, just acknowledging the existence of their fake deities. (The existence of their belief in their fake deities).

I didn't know the stuff about General Gwan being seen alive after death. So much for JDK's argument of taking CMA and being somehow brainwashed to worship General Gwan. The topic has never come up at any place I've ever been.

[NJM]

Not to get all sci-fi on you, but if you are dealing with a primitive race that believes in a bunch of deities, you could claim a new deity and say that your deity is the only true (real) deity.

OMG Goa'uld!

[JDK]

To All,

I have been doing some thinking...and I guess in my enthusiasm I came on
much too strong with my personal beliefs. I don’t have all the answers and AM
still in search of Truth....I have so much to learn, like all of us.

Please forgive.

I want to talk Martial Arts from now on...so I will restrict my posts
To that Subject. Anything else...feel free to send me a Private Message

Again...sorry to have stirred up so much hostility and controversy...that was
never my intention

JDK
Eliom12@sbcglobal.net

[TenTigers]

cool.
so...do you think Jesus did Kung-Fu?
Who would win in a fight-Jesus or Mohammed?
Frankly, I think Buddha would own all their arses.(he's got that Buddha's Palm technique, y'know)

[NJM]

cool.
so...do you think Jesus did Kung-Fu?
Who would win in a fight-Jesus or Mohammed?
Frankly, I think Buddha would own all their arses.(he's got that Buddha's Palm technique, y'know)

Well, they were all pacifists, so I think they would just stand there.

[lunghushan]

To All,

I have been doing some thinking...and I guess in my enthusiasm I came on
much too strong with my personal beliefs. I don’t have all the answers and AM
still in search of Truth....I have so much to learn, like all of us.

Please forgive.

I want to talk Martial Arts from now on...so I will restrict my posts
To that Subject. Anything else...feel free to send me a Private Message

Again...sorry to have stirred up so much hostility and controversy...that was
never my intention

JDK
Eliom12@sbcglobal.net

No worries. As Grandma always said, never argue politics or religion. I always seem to forget that though.

Now we can get back to ridiculing kung fu cults. LOL

[mawali]

Put you faith in Jesus and the chi vampirism will go away!
I cannot believe they teach this in kungfu schools! Lord Jesus!

[RonH]

Many CMA schools talk of spreading joy and happiness around. So, if we're gonna combine Jesus into this, I say teach that Jesus died for the sins of all mankind in the past, present and future of his supposed time period. And, so since we are in Jesus' future, Jesus died for our sins, too. This means that if we don't sin, have fun, enjoy material things and a material existence...Jesus will have died for nothing. ;) :p

Just make sure you don't say it around extremists. Things are already crazy in their lives anyway and they won't want to see the joke.

[TenTigers]

heck, I didn't even know god was spanish. Did he have any other kids? Was there a juan, or a carlos christ? Since he was a jew, does that mean he was sefardic?

[TenTigers]

do you think that Jimminy Cricket having the initials JC, and being Pinnochio's concience, or higher self, or spiritual guide, would mean thatthey are alluding to Jesus Christ? Is Gepetto God, creating a rough-hewn man, but without the spiritual guidance drifts towards his own ****ation?

[TenTigers]

I guess I shoulda wrote darnation.

[FuXnDajenariht]

yea.....probably.

i heard Puff the Magic Dragon was a stoner story.

[SaintSage]

Why did the chicken cross the road?

He's Catholic, they cross everything.

[TenTigers]

Does Mary refer to God as,"Mah baby's daddy"???

[Shaolin Wookie]

Does God wink and nod and prod the angels when she walks by, and say: "Yeah, I nailed her...";)

[JDK]

Dear Shaolin Wookie and Ten Tigers....

I hesitate to post this.....but sometimes you have to do what you felt led to do or say...

You are blaspheming a God, whom you doesn't think exists....and in His mercy
you have so far ..and most likely will continue to live to tell about it.

My advice as a minister of the Gospel for over 25 years.....back off.
Why tempt God my Kung-Fu brothers ?????

Thats all I wanted to say.......

Hear the Lords words...

Mark 3:28
Verily I say unto you , All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:

Mr 3:29
But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal ****ation:

Jude 1:1
Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, [and] called:

Jude 1:2
Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.

Jude 1:3
Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort [you] that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
Jude 1:4

For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Jude 1:5
I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

Jude 1:6
And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Jude 1:7
Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Jude 1:8
Likewise also these [filthy] dreamers defile the flesh , despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

Jude 1:9
Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

Jude 1:10
But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.


,

[Charles T Rose]

christianity is such a militant religion that why it is so succesful.
"its ok if you dont believe what we do,as long as you dont mind burning in hell for eternity." LOL
if you were born in the middle east you would be muslim,if you were born in India you would be Hindu,born 2500 yrs ago in Greece you would be worshiping Zeus ect.
I know you have been programed since birth with these beliefs but try to get some perspective dude.

[JDK]

christianity is such a militant religion that why it is so succesful.
"its ok if you dont believe what we do,as long as you dont mind burning in hell for eternity." LOL
if you were born in the middle east you would be muslim,if you were born in India you would be Hindu,born 2500 yrs ago in Greece you would be worshiping Zeus ect.
I know you have been programed since birth with these beliefs but try to get some perspective dude.

Hey Charles T Rose..nice to meet you,

I dont know if I would agree with you that "militant" is the right term for True Biblical Christianity in the way you mean it...but Webster's Dictionary agrees that True Biblical Christianity is militant, in that we are engaged in combat..and commanded to be agressive in our Faith.

We are agressive in prayer. sharing the Gospel of Jesus Christ..and in helping needy people have have no savior or hope.

We are NOT aggressive in Bombing Countries, Shouting out slogans and Billboards that say for example purposes.. DEATH TO IRAN! DEATH TO CHINA!
DEATH TO ISRAEL...ETC... Nor do we kill or dismember our women for having 5 inches of flesh showing through their Burka...or tie-up the feet of our Young to not allow them to grow, so that with smaller feet as adults, they will have choice but to walk ina subserviant manner ( China) nor send Tanks into Washington DC to kill and arrest peaceful demonstrators. ( Tianaman Square)

As far as HELL is concerned...I do not know exactely what hell is like...nor do I wish to find out, since Jesus described it as "not a nice place to be"

But I think many miss the point about Hell....the real eternal tragedy of hell is the fact that one becomes forever seperated from God ..our Creator. Pu t aside the descriptions of fire and burning for a second...and think about choosing in this Life not to accept His Sin Offering the Lord Jesus...His only Son...and simply saying Lord I am a sinner ...please save me.

Which brings me to Zeus, Buddah, Muhammad, Confusious,.etc..

There is one Major Difference.....they are all DEAD...have been dead, and their
bodies remains ( except Zeus) are visited by thousands each years.

Jesus proved who he was by rising on the Third Day....and then showing himself over the next 40 days to as many as 500 people at once.

You may try and discount the Miracles, the eye witnesses, the healings, the raising of Lazarus ( and others) from the Dead....but HIS TOMB WAS and IS EMPTY

I am not brainwashed friend, I do have perspective...but I deal in facts.
Please read Lee Strobel's Book The Case For Christ and you will read about an educated, avowed athiest who set out with a vengence to PROVE the claims about Jesus were made up.....

After a thorough, long, tedius Scientific Investigation that led him to many different places...this educated, highly intelligent anthiast scholar....became a convert, and accepted Jesus as Lord. the facts he discovered were undeniable..in his opinion.

http://www.leestrobel.com/

JD

[TenTigers]

Christianity is the Fred Villaris of Judaism:p

[Charles T Rose]

When I said militant I didnt mean politicaly I meant in spreading what christians perceive(socially programmed) as truth above all others.Sure they help the poor as long as they "convert".Sure its better than some of the more barbaric traditions but thats only in the last 400 yrs.
Like my friend who is in a christian cult known as "soul winning soldiers"...the concept of winning souls through conversion is absurd,illogical and offensive at the same time....thats militant and thats wrong IMO.
It is the polar opposite of Daoism.
Your faith is a function of your social environment.

[mantis108]

Hey Charles T Rose..nice to meet you,

I dont know if I would agree with you that "militant" is the right term for True Biblical Christianity in the way you mean it...but Webster's Dictionary agrees that True Biblical Christianity is militant, in that we are engaged in combat..and commanded to be agressive in our Faith.

We are agressive in prayer. sharing the Gospel of Jesus Christ..and in helping needy people have have no savior or hope.

Your notion of your so-called Christian God is nothing more than a tribal war God version that gradually evolved into the presented blind faith worship farce. Please get some serious professional help. If you are indeed sane, please study theology for real. What you have said or claimed to believe in is not that different from any of the very same people (Muslim fundamentalists) you accussed of being evil. You really aren't that Holier that they from what you have been trying to pitch here.


We are NOT aggressive in Bombing Countries, Shouting out slogans and Billboards that say for example purposes.. DEATH TO IRAN! DEATH TO CHINA!
DEATH TO ISRAEL...ETC...

So what do you call the Iraq war?


Nor do we kill or dismember our women for having 5 inches of flesh showing through their Burka...or tie-up the feet of our Young to not allow them to grow, so that with smaller feet as adults, they will have choice but to walk ina subserviant manner ( China) nor send Tanks into Washington DC to kill and arrest peaceful demonstrators. ( Tianaman Square)

Wow, your ignorance of other cultures never fails to amaze me. Muslim like Judaism believe that women actually are closer to God than men. That's why women can pray or worship on their own, while men need to be have prayer session together. Since women are "holy", there is no reason for them to display their bodies like those teenage idols wannabes in western culture. That's the reason why they cover up from a religious POV. Now for practical reason, middle eastern cultures (ie Arabians) finds women's hair "erotic" and could cause men to act inappropietly. So covering it up helps to reduce the chance of crime such as rape. A People's culture develops for a reason.

As for the binding feet in China, it's done for an ethnical aethetic reasons and it's a priviledge that is not affordable to all. Only the nobles and the well to do in ancient China can do that. The tradition or practice went back to Ha dynasty (2033 - 1562 BC) with the last consort of the last King of Ha. What so different were the Chinese women to other cultures that stuff the ear loops or stretch their neck to extreme measure? What so different are they from the women that go under the knife to make their boobs a whopping 40DD, or use botox. Even men here in the west do all sorts of plastic surguries even though there is supposedly no "class division" in America [except there is Christian hyprocracy]. How old is the American Evangelical culture really? When it gets to a few thousand years, old may be you can then tell other much much older culture what's right and what's wrong. BTW, foot binding had not been in practice since early 1900s . So you are at least a hundred years late.

Tian An Men Square? Don't make me laugh. You have no real understanding of politic not to mention you know next to nothing about communist China. Do you honestly think that the CCP would have given up their "ideology" just because a few students (nothing more than naive kids in their eyes) occupy the symbol of power and rule of CCP law? You do know that they have been given a 100 days before the "military operation" was ordered to cleanse the place? CCP don't come to power because it was a nice and friendly party. It came to power because they played dirty. Totalitarinism is nothing new in China. Chinese lived through that for thousands of years. It may not be right but that's just the lot Chinese had for ages. The Kids weren't smart and weren't that well prepare for the consequence. Too bad for them, but they got schooled in Chinese politics 101. My advice is there are 3 things that are dirty - Women, Money and Politics/religion - if you are not ready to get your hands dirty, don't touch them. Okay?!


As far as HELL is concerned...I do not know exactely what hell is like...nor do I wish to find out, since Jesus described it as "not a nice place to be"

Did your buddy, Jesus, revealed that to you in person or in a dream? Or you just read it in the good book.


But I think many miss the point about Hell....the real eternal tragedy of hell is the fact that one becomes forever seperated from God ..our Creator. Pu t aside the descriptions of fire and burning for a second...and think about choosing in this Life not to accept His Sin Offering the Lord Jesus...His only Son...and simply saying Lord I am a sinner ...please save me.

You know as good as the point that you made, I have no doubt that Jesus saves, or at least he tried when he was alive. But I am equally possitive that it is organized religion that withdraws. Salvation is a big business and it doesn't come cheap in America.


Which brings me to Zeus, Buddah, Muhammad, Confusious,.etc..

There is one Major Difference.....they are all DEAD...have been dead, and their
bodies remains ( except Zeus) are visited by thousands each years.

Oi.... The fact the Cofuscius, Buddha and even Muhammad (the prophet) didn't embellish the fact that they were mere mortals but they spoke the truth and have the well being of the masses in heart is good enough for me to respect them all. What's wrong with human remians? It is energy that's almost ran out of energy. Nothing bad about that being a natural part of life. Denying your body is denying your very own humanity. Please don't tell me that you are the long lost brother of your lord Juses and you human form is an illusion.


Jesus proved who he was by rising on the Third Day....and then showing himself over the next 40 days to as many as 500 people at once.

That unfortunately is another Pagan myth like Christmas.


You may try and discount the Miracles, the eye witnesses, the healings, the raising of Lazarus ( and others) from the Dead....but HIS TOMB WAS and IS EMPTY

The real miracle is that you are sold before you even start researching the investment. But that's your right. So...


I am not brainwashed friend, I do have perspective...but I deal in facts.
Please read Lee Strobel's Book The Case For Christ and you will read about an educated, avowed athiest who set out with a vengence to PROVE the claims about Jesus were made up.....

other than reading other's work have you walk their walk and do some field researches yourself? Do you have a theology degree? So if someone gave you some book, some tape and some website on BJJ that tell you BJJ wins everytime, you would believe these material and ignore all the loses BJJ people have?


After a thorough, long, tedius Scientific Investigation that led him to many different places...this educated, highly intelligent anthiast scholar....became a convert, and accepted Jesus as Lord. the facts he discovered were undeniable..in his opinion.

http://www.leestrobel.com/
JD

Sure, whatever floats your boat. Money is money. Contribution to your "ministry" is contribution ... so at least you got one more sheep in your flock. :rolleyes: It's okay to live in a fantasy and feed on false information but it's quite another to assume everyone else is simpleton.

Mantis108

[qiphlow]

Hey Charles T Rose..nice to meet you,

I dont know if I would agree with you that "militant" is the right term for True Biblical Christianity in the way you mean it...but Webster's Dictionary agrees that True Biblical Christianity is militant, in that we are engaged in combat..and commanded to be agressive in our Faith.

We are agressive in prayer. sharing the Gospel of Jesus Christ..and in helping needy people have have no savior or hope.

We are NOT aggressive in Bombing Countries, Shouting out slogans and Billboards that say for example purposes.. DEATH TO IRAN! DEATH TO CHINA!
DEATH TO ISRAEL...ETC... Nor do we kill or dismember our women for having 5 inches of flesh showing through their Burka...or tie-up the feet of our Young to not allow them to grow, so that with smaller feet as adults, they will have choice but to walk ina subserviant manner ( China) nor send Tanks into Washington DC to kill and arrest peaceful demonstrators. ( Tianaman Square)

As far as HELL is concerned...I do not know exactely what hell is like...nor do I wish to find out, since Jesus described it as "not a nice place to be"

But I think many miss the point about Hell....the real eternal tragedy of hell is the fact that one becomes forever seperated from God ..our Creator. Pu t aside the descriptions of fire and burning for a second...and think about choosing in this Life not to accept His Sin Offering the Lord Jesus...His only Son...and simply saying Lord I am a sinner ...please save me.

Which brings me to Zeus, Buddah, Muhammad, Confusious,.etc..

There is one Major Difference.....they are all DEAD...have been dead, and their
bodies remains ( except Zeus) are visited by thousands each years.

Jesus proved who he was by rising on the Third Day....and then showing himself over the next 40 days to as many as 500 people at once.

You may try and discount the Miracles, the eye witnesses, the healings, the raising of Lazarus ( and others) from the Dead....but HIS TOMB WAS and IS EMPTY

I am not brainwashed friend, I do have perspective...but I deal in facts.
Please read Lee Strobel's Book The Case For Christ and you will read about an educated, avowed athiest who set out with a vengence to PROVE the claims about Jesus were made up.....

After a thorough, long, tedius Scientific Investigation that led him to many different places...this educated, highly intelligent anthiast scholar....became a convert, and accepted Jesus as Lord. the facts he discovered were undeniable..in his opinion.

http://www.leestrobel.com/

JD

one thing--siddhartha gautama (the buddha) didn't die. he realized that there is no birth, no death. the flesh is impermanent, tied to the physical world, conditioned, and therefore illusory--not real. in other words, you are not your body. he left the physical plane, but he did not die.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Religions represent various cultural interpretations of simple spiritual awareness.. i.e.: that we are parts of a whole..

Now, some cultural "parts" have have united themselves into a mini-Whole, declared exclusive rights to THE Whole, and even elected themselves as the "Chosen People".. The book used to justify the Chosen People's agenda is a nicely crafted and well marketed manual for stabilization and control of ignorant masses.. but, it fails miserably in the scrutiny of its inconsistencies.. it is the only religious philosophy that conjures-up a "get out of jail free" card, Jesus.. while other religions and philosophies hold the people accountable for their deeds, the Chosen People perform the contrived ritual, ask for forgiveness, pay their membership dues, and do as they please for another week.. i can see the attractiveness..

What is more concerning, is that of the writings attributed to the messages of Jesus, only the ones that enforce heirarchy, control and proselytizing (converting others, you know, more revenue) were approved for inclusion in the Bible.. The Bible is a document designed by a committee with self-serving interests in presenting the version widely used today.. other books omitted have much more to do with individual spirituality than crime and punishment.. i am of the belief that IF "God" intended man to be able to discern "truth" from the writings about Jesus, ALL those writings should be presented, each person should draw their own conclusions, and live their lives accordingly.. i distrust the "man behind the curtain", the "learned ones" that interpret meanings from the words and tell us what "God" meant when it inspired "men and women" to write the Bible.. It would be a travesty if some almighty, omnipotent, diety couldn't simply write what it meant to say in plain language for plain people.. no crytptic riddles, no ambiguous references.. just plain words for plain people..

This is not an attack on all of Christianity, but an indictment against those that have taken a message of Love, tolerance, and social responsibility and crafted a manual for the stabilization and control of ignorant masses.. Then, in their fabulous wisdom, they try to force Love through the promise of rewards (heaven) or fear of punishment (hell).. none of which holds up to the reasoned logic of the mind so generously created by the real "God".. the collective consciousness of the Universe..

Be well..

[Corwyn]

Hey Charles T Rose..nice to meet you,

I am not brainwashed friend, I do have perspective...but I deal in facts.
Please read Lee Strobel's Book The Case For Christ and you will read about an educated, avowed athiest who set out with a vengence to PROVE the claims about Jesus were made up.....

After a thorough, long, tedius Scientific Investigation that led him to many different places...this educated, highly intelligent anthiast scholar....became a convert, and accepted Jesus as Lord. the facts he discovered were undeniable..in his opinion.

http://www.leestrobel.com/

JD


OH PLEASE -Strobel?! Are you F8king kidding me?! A newspaper reporter, with no formal education of history or religion interviews 13 evangelical preachers - who make Millions if not Billions of dollars by fleecing the ignorant and the metally ill - takes them at their word for everything and then cashes in on selling his book to the same group of idiots is your EVIDENCE!? You ARE totally insane! Or did you just think that people on a MA forum just don't read anything else and you can sucker them?!

[Corwyn]

If you're going to start quoting xian apoligists at least do it with SOME class
someone like John Shelby Spong. Who actually shows a level of intelligence and
deserves respect even if one does not agree with him!

[Five animal]

In regards to the original post about chi vampires, the answer is dependant on the level of awareness.

Chi, Prana, Qi, ka or universal energy exists within and outside all of us. As there are animals that prey on other animals, comparatively there are those whom prey on others. This can be energetically, physically, mentally, emotionally, etc....

As an individual you have the choice to decide where your Chi may go, and to whom. Martial arts were originally used primarily for cultivating the physical body to engage with superconductive chi. As it is used for protection of the individual physically from a would be attacker, much is the same with the energetic variety.

We have the right to protect oneself, as life is sacred.

There are various protection techniques out there regarding chi preservation. Your instructor would be the best one to talk to about this.

Hope I helped.

Love and Light.

:)

[Corwyn]

In regards to the original post about chi vampires, the answer is dependant on the level of awareness.

Chi, Prana, Qi, ka or universal energy exists within and outside all of us. As there are animals that prey on other animals, comparatively there are those whom prey on others. This can be energetically, physically, mentally, emotionally, etc....

As an individual you have the choice to decide where your Chi may go, and to whom. Martial arts were originally used primarily for cultivating the physical body to engage with superconductive chi. As it is used for protection of the individual physically from a would be attacker, much is the same with the energetic variety.

We have the right to protect oneself, as life is sacred.

There are various protection techniques out there regarding chi preservation. Your instructor would be the best one to talk to about this.

Hope I helped.

Love and Light.

:)


OH for the LOVE of Light - ANOTHER ONE!

Oh please tell us where this marvelous energy is located in the human body and the universe. How can we measure such energy? How is it that the most intelligent minds dealing with physics can never locate this energy and the most cursory doubt of such is ALWAYS answered by by well if you doubt you can never see it?


PS, there IS a Million US dollars avaialbe to anyone that can prove such

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

LOL, "life-force" energies have been measured, since the mid 1990's.. the "millions" being offered have, as their criteria, certain stipulations that lend themselves to the most outlandish of claims.. but, good old-fashioned science has measured bioelectricity extraneous to the bio-chemical processes.. it has measured visible light originating from within the human body.. and it has measured electrical and magnetic fields at a distance of greater than 15 ft. from the body.. what is interesting is that once it is measured and quantified, then it's no longer Qi, it's just science..

One of the primary motivations of science is to investigate the realm of the unknown or the quasi known.. rejection of such processes is contrary to the science many skeptics rely upon to discount Qi and other such phenomena that they fear..

Be well..

[RonH]

Oh please tell us where this marvelous energy is located in the human body and the universe.

Every square inch of space-time.


How can we measure such energy?

Aside from the bioelectricity version, there is also emotional and mental types. To record these with technology of today would be analogous to taking astronomy measurements with a turkey baster. It is ill-equiped to do the job.


How is it that the most intelligent minds dealing with physics can never locate this energy

See above. Plus, 'the most intelligent' is a very small number of people and it is arrogant to think that if a small number of a particular type of people can't do something or think of something, then it can't be true or done.


and the most cursory doubt of such is ALWAYS answered by by well if you doubt you can never see it?

If you know someone is repressing a bad memory and really can't remember something that happened to them, does that mean the one repressing really didn't go through/experience the events they are repressing?


PS, there IS a Million US dollars avaialbe to anyone that can prove such

Prove to who? There are many that refuse to believe given historical events didn't happen, while many others believe them, including those that went through those events.

[Corwyn]

Woo BS. I just got a large project dumped on me that has to be done by Friday so I don't have time to address the last 2 posts item for item today, but will come back to do so if you like,


BUT 5animals WHAT the flying fig is "Life-energy" can you even put that into anything that even remotely resembles scientific as in Physics or Chemistry?

I didn't think so!


RonH - RIGHT It's that FAMOUS "science is just not smart enough to understand" this stuff, but some illiterate holy man from the temple of IRippOffTheStupidWhiteMan has ALL the answers to the universe.

NOTE the moving of the goal post - a typical tactic of the woo crowd when confronted by anyone who is unwilling to drink the cool aid. Change the subject! "bioelectricity version, there is also emotional and mental types"
WHAT:eek: Oh I suppose emotional type is where ghosts come from :rolleyes:

But BACK to the original claim - Chi Vampirism was the concern and 5animals claim that one can defend and attack people with this imaginary power.

I call BullSh8! If I came on this board and said that I could beat all the sifus that visit this board with one hand tied behind my back because I invented the newest and best MA that is unbeatable, my finger couldn't make it from the enter button posting that message to scratching my ass before at least 5 people called me on it.

Well, what you are claiming - that some universal power which is undetectable, invisible and unaffected by the ordinary world and to science yet YOU have not only access to this power but can control it in the physical world well enough
to even KILL :eek: people with it - is far more RIDICULIOUS!

5Animals - I don't know what rules you are talking about, but the one I was referring to is listed here
http://www.randi.org/research/challenge.html

It is ALL of 12 rules WOW I know that is just WAY TOOO much to handle,
BUT WAIT

like 6 are nothing but legal mumbo jumbo that deals with who covers expenses and who owns the resulting info - I know THAT'S just SOOO complicated.

3 of the rules YOU get to set! That leaves, what? All of 3 rules you have to follow?


RonH - To whom do you have to prove it? To anyone who asks or be prepared to be called a lire or a fool! If you make extra ordinary claims you should be able to back it up to those who have doubts about your claim. And saying that those who question you are just "closed" minded is just the same thing as if
after making my claim about my superior MA ,some of the Sifus here challenge me and I say "I just don't think that you're good enough, so it would be waist of my time to try to teach you something." What would happen to me on this forum if I did that? I, for the life of me, can not understand WHY we let people slide with these kinds of crazy claims to the supernatural all the time. I guess people just feel like they shouldn't pick on the village idiot:rolleyes:


"One of the primary motivations of science is to investigate the realm of the unknown or the quasi known.. rejection of such processes is contrary to the science many skeptics rely upon to discount Qi and other such phenomena that they fear.."


I had to quote the above because I read it 3 times and I am still not sure if it makes any sense! But as best as I can get it out of it, you MADE precisely the point. I asked you to show me EVIDENCE which can be verified by some OTHER means then "well, I felt SOMETHING" or "my sifu's brothers cousins uncles sisters master once"

Skeptics are not afraid, - well they may or may not be, it is TOTALLY irrelevant - what they demand is proof which can be independently and objectively verified.
Your comment stinks of an ad hum attack which is nothing but the cowards/delusionals way out when confronted by reality.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Corwyn: The following are excerpts from cutting-edge "scientists", the same science you wish could debunk Qi.. it is simply not so..

Meditation masters speak of an inner light that pervades the physical and energy bodies, and now science investigates it as biophotons, and through quantum physics we can watch that matter/energy/information devolve back into the void from which it emanates. Masters have often equated this pervasive Light with primordial Consciousness and the source of life as well as matter.

Alan Aspect set up a physical experiment that showed that photons previously entangled continue to inform each other even after separation. They do this instantaneously, so are regarded as "non-local" Is the photon conscious too? They certainly are aware. If so, then the seat of consciousness is at a different/deeper self luminous hierarchal level just as the ancients say.

Consciousness is more than simple conscious awareness or self awareness. It’s ALL in your mind, but not necessarily merely in your head. Consciousness is distributed throughout the entire body. Though the brain is associated with the nervous system it is embedded in body consciousness and coupled to it.

Body and mind mutually inform and condition one another as mindbody, or the psychophysical organism. The connective tissue of the body has its own form of coherent communication by conductance. The connective tissue acts a dynamic liquid crystal array, which conveys information many times faster than the nervous and hormonal systems. It is the basis of gut feelings and holistic responses.

The universe is literally holistically contained within the mindbody and is the context of mindbody. Both physicists and mystics now tell us that there is noTHING “out there.” The Vedas said centuries ago that it’s all “mindstuff” and modern science is now confronting that. Wave forms and particles derive their energy from the inside of space. That self-illumined energy is dynamic, always interacting from the cosmic to subquantal realms

Space is more than an unreactive void. The vacuum energy or Zero Point Energy (ZPE) can be viewed as the Qi energy field according to the ancient Chinese Qi theory or worldview. In the very beginning there was Wu (Nothing or Void), then there was "Hun Tun" (the Great Chaos), later formed the "Tai Chi", then formed the "Tai Shih" (the Great Beginning) permeated with Qi.

The Qi then split into two, the Yin and Yang complementary Qi forces. The interactions of the Yin Qi and Yang Qi evolves all things including Life. To the Chinese, Everything has Qi. Everything functions through Qi. It is the Qi that keeps us alive. To the Chinese, Life is not the end product of an evolutionary process, rather Life Force Qi's existence necessitates Physics and Chemistry being what it is.

You demonstrate a closed mind's pathetic grasp at its comfort zone.. educate yourself, do yourself and others that favor.. whether it is described as an ancient concept such as Qi or by quantum scientific terms, it is what it is.. and your denial of it has no bearing on its existence.. there is an undeniable truth, science cannot explain all that IS.. simply because we can't explain it, does not make it invalid..

Your juvenile attacks on the beliefs of others is a clear indication of your mind-set, i wish you well in overcoming that handicap..

Be well...

[Ronin22]

TCB,


Nice read, appreciate you posting it. Where is this excerpted from? Thanks

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Thanks, Ronin.. lots of good balanced stuff at the site below..

http://biophysics.50megs.com/photo5.html

Be well..

[Corwyn]

Greetings..

lots of good balanced stuff at the site below..

http://biophysics.50megs.com/photo5.html

Be well..

Well, I give up. The evidence is just overwhelming!:eek: A free share website full of unintelligible self delusions, written by a non qualified quack _ did you actually look at this womand cradentials (I use the term lightly) peer reviewed by NO ONE, is you FAIR and Balances evidence? Hurry up grab your tin hat the black helicopters are coming!!!!

OH and PS. AGAIN I notice how you TOTALLY ignored the original BS call on this post, changed the subject and moved the goal posts!

What happened to the VAMPIRES and Killing people with your super powers!

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..


Well, I give up. The evidence is just overwhelming! A free share website full of unintelligible self delusions, written by a non qualified quack _ did you actually look at this womand cradentials (I use the term lightly) peer reviewed by NO ONE, is you FAIR and Balances evidence? Hurry up grab your tin hat the black helicopters are coming!!!!

I rest my case, Corwyn.. your intelligent command of communication skills and your presentation of evidence to the contrary.. is, well.. nonexistent.. you're just blabbering on and on.. and being disrespectful at it..

it is not the woman's credentials, at issue.. it is her compilation of references.. but the reasoning and logic required to follow-up, do the resarch, form supported opinions, and communicate those opinions with clarity and respect, are things you have not demonstrated.. i have spent years researching the science behind Qi, and its other labels.. regardless of how you label it, life-force energies have been measured, accepted as valid, and now, it is only a matter of deeper understandings..

Princeton, Cornell, MIT, Pepperdyne, etc.. prestigious learning and research schools have all devoted funds, staff, and resources in the rewarding pursuit of these issues.. The US military has and is actively pursuing certain of these issues, why? because of the valid evidence.. bury your head in the sand if you choose, in fact it's probably the best use of it..

The original notion of "Chi Vampires" is not one i choose to address.. it is a conglomerate of twisted concepts, without merit..

Be well..

[RonH]

RonH - RIGHT It's that FAMOUS "science is just not smart enough to understand" this stuff, but some illiterate holy man from the temple of IRippOffTheStupidWhiteMan has ALL the answers to the universe.

Corwyn, what you don't understand is that the source of these same answers you asign only to an illiterate holy man is also within you. Do you want to tap that source or not? That is up to you.


NOTE the moving of the goal post - a typical tactic of the woo crowd when confronted by anyone who is unwilling to drink the cool aid. Change the subject! "bioelectricity version, there is also emotional and mental types"

I did nothing of the sort. You asked 'How can we measure such energy?'.

If I came to you and asked 'how can we measure baryonic particles', you'd say something to the effect of 'which type of baryonic particle did you want to detect? There is more than one that would fall into the category of "baryonic".'

That is what I did. Just because you are unaware that there is more than one type of life force energy doesn't mean it hasn't existed before I made that statement.


WHAT:eek: Oh I suppose emotional type is where ghosts come from :rolleyes:

Ghosts come from a spirit leaving its physical form. A more in depth description would involve the metaphysicality of reality, but if you're curious of the primary source of spirits that incarnate into material form, that would be The All. It also goes by a variety of different names because of the variety of subjective viewpoints. The Kybalion is available on the internet and it gives a thorough explanation. The qustion becomes if you're interested in reading it. That's up to you and no skin off my nose.


But BACK to the original claim - Chi Vampirism was the concern and 5animals claim that one can defend and attack people with this imaginary power.

I call BullSh8! If I came on this board and said that I could beat all the sifus that visit this board with one hand tied behind my back because I invented the newest and best MA that is unbeatable, my finger couldn't make it from the enter button posting that message to scratching my ass before at least 5 people called me on it.

So what?


Well, what you are claiming - that some universal power which is undetectable, invisible and unaffected by the ordinary world and to science yet YOU have not only access to this power but can control it in the physical world well enough
to even KILL :eek: people with it - is far more RIDICULIOUS!

**Undetectable? No. Just limited in how it can be detected, as anything else is.
**Invisible? No, you can see it with your eyes, if you relax them enough and gaze at an object. Most often, you'll see it as a white haze around things, sometimes it might be blue, but...again...this is only one type of energy that exists.
**Unaffected? Hardly. When speaking of the metaphysicality of existence, there are any number of planes, though a simplified view puts them down to a minimum of 3: the physical, the next up being emotional and the top being mental. Energy passing from the mental goes down to the emotional and then, to the physical. It moves from the physical back up to the emotional and finallly back up to the mental. Energy that starts at the emotional expands up to the mental and down to the physical simultaneously and when it reaches both of these places, it goes back to the emotional level. It continuously cycles back and forth, even when the source of a planar shift of energy starts on the physical level.

You may think 'well, then it should be easy to change reality because it should be so effortlessly to do so'. That may be true, but there are also all the other people and entities in existence throughout all of reality that are doing this with any and all things, so it's a tug of war. The stronger the will, the more times you will succeed, but that also means that stuff you don't want to happen may happen.

But, that isn't to say that everything that happens to you, both good and bad, is your fault. Some entities have stronger wills than you and no matter how much you try, they just overpower you and you become helpless to their power.

Realizing this and practicing in increasing your will gives you a better chance, but there is no gaurantee you'll succeed.


RonH - To whom do you have to prove it? To anyone who asks or be prepared to be called a lire or a fool!

Since when am I the one responsible for the beliefs of everyone else?


If you make extra ordinary claims you should be able to back it up to those who have doubts about your claim.

Why? That logic escapes me. Why is it necessary for me to do so?


And saying that those who question you are just "closed" minded is just the same thing as if
after making my claim about my superior MA ,some of the Sifus here challenge me and I say "I just don't think that you're good enough, so it would be waist of my time to try to teach you something."

Those that don't want to believe are closed minded, not necesarily those that question. There's a difference.


What would happen to me on this forum if I did that?

You're doing it right now.


I, for the life of me, can not understand WHY we let people slide with these kinds of crazy claims to the supernatural all the time.

It's called a respect for the difference of opinion. This forum is not about a 'them versus us' mentality. Are we to bar people based on something else that can't be detected by everyday science, such as belief in an extraphysical deity?


I guess people just feel like they shouldn't pick on the village idiot:rolleyes:

Picking on someone just because of their difference of opinon shows signs of a personality that needs help. You believe somethinng different from me. That is you, this is me. I'm not going around, saying this forum shouldn't let people like you on it, yet you are and I'm not saying this as part of that 'there's no absolutes, it's all relative'. Relativism only works to a point, in my opinion. But, when it comes to you and this topic, I haven't seen relativism go beyond what could be considered reasonable.

[Corwyn]

"Princeton, Cornell, MIT, Pepperdyne, etc.. prestigious learning and research schools have all devoted funds, staff, and resources in the rewarding pursuit of these issues.. The US military has and is actively pursuing certain of these issues, why? because of the valid evidence.."

Argument from authority holds as much water as a fishnet. Unless you can quote peer reviewed papers from accredited sources and not some website put together by a bimbo who links her own articles as evidence for her own BS.

"The following are excerpts from cutting-edge "scientists", the same science you wish could debunk Qi.. it is simply not so.."

Again I notice the absolute LACK of any evidence!


"Aside from the bioelectricity version, there is also emotional and mental types. To record these with technology of today would be analogous to taking astronomy measurements with a turkey baster. It is ill-equiped to do the job."

And then of course there is the gem and gist of your woo. Well WHICH ONE is it? How much validity is there in all the studies and links you quack on about if in the next breath you hasten to explain that science is as you put it "ill-equipped to do the job"?
What good is your evidence and why should I not laugh at you sticking your head up your but if the very argument YOU make starts out with "well all the evidence we have is really questionable because the tools we use to collect the evidence is really very poor" but when I refuse to drink the cool-aid there is something wrong with me:rolleyes:



"it is a conglomerate of twisted concepts, without merit.."

This is the most - scratch that - the ONLY coherent and constistant thing you've
said so far.


For some people, believing in something they don't understand
is more important than understanding what they believe in.
:(

[NJM]

"Princeton, Cornell, MIT, Pepperdyne, etc.. prestigious learning and research schools have all devoted funds, staff, and resources in the rewarding pursuit of these issues.. The US military has and is actively pursuing certain of these issues, why? because of the valid evidence.."

Argument from authority holds as much water as a fishnet. Unless you can quote peer reviewed papers from accredited sources and not some website put together by a bimbo who links her own articles as evidence for her own BS.

"The following are excerpts from cutting-edge "scientists", the same science you wish could debunk Qi.. it is simply not so.."

Again I notice the absolute LACK of any evidence!


"Aside from the bioelectricity version, there is also emotional and mental types. To record these with technology of today would be analogous to taking astronomy measurements with a turkey baster. It is ill-equiped to do the job."

And then of course there is the gem and gist of your woo. Well WHICH ONE is it? How much validity is there in all the studies and links you quack on about if in the next breath you hasten to explain that science is as you put it "ill-equipped to do the job"?
What good is your evidence and why should I not laugh at you sticking your head up your but if the very argument YOU make starts out with "well all the evidence we have is really questionable because the tools we use to collect the evidence is really very poor" but when I refuse to drink the cool-aid there is something wrong with me:rolleyes:



"it is a conglomerate of twisted concepts, without merit.."

This is the most - scratch that - the ONLY coherent and constistant thing you've
said so far.


For some people, believing in something they don't understand
is more important than understanding what they believe in.
:(

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Next time, read the person's post before you do a multi-quote nightmare. He said he was just talking about one type of energy being bioelectrical, yet you had to say "well there R emotional types 2 lol" Well man, I want you to step back, chill, and accept people's opinions. The methods we use in scientific study are dubious at times, and there are certainly large forces which we have yet to discover. Stop taking everything personal.

Also please use actual quote format instead of just using quotation marks and tinting your text an epileptic neon blue.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Sadly, i've done it again.. i assumed Corwyn had the ability to read, research and reason.. i was profoundly wrong.. faced with insurmountable evidence, he grasps firmly to his own level of comfort (3rd grade).. science is a process, we are dealing with cutting edge physics, some of the brightest minds on the planet are researching these issues, why? Because they have real and tangible merit.

Argument from authority holds as much water as a fishnet.
What can i say? i offer reference resources that require you to do some cognitive research on your own, and, yes.. there are "peer reviewed" studies.. heck, much of this is simply accepted science.. i've done my homework, about 10 years ago.. and i'm not inclined to re-do it to satisfy your closed mind.. regardless of what i or anyone else show you, you will hold fast to your beliefs.. do yourself and others the favor of actually researching these issues..

What good is your evidence and why should I not laugh at you sticking your head up your but if the very argument YOU make starts out with "well all the evidence we have is really questionable because the tools we use to collect the evidence is really very poor" but when I refuse to drink the cool-aid there is something wrong with me
LOL, yes, Corwyn, you have handicaps.. a closed mind, an antagonistic attitude, and a knack for ignoring the obvious.. you would have been the last to believe the earth is spherical, or that it is not the center of the universe.. So, even though you see the train coming, you won't believe it till it hits you (good luck with that).. The peer reviews and hard science you demand have already passed you by.. actually, science/physics is researching areas beyond those discussed here.. even science itself admits that there is stuff that it knows is there but cannot yet define or measure, which, by your standards, would relegate said stuff into the realm of "quackery"..

So, keep the faith, Corwyn.. most of us will benefit from the advances of science, you, however, will squander the opportunities in order to feed your desperate ego.. i really can't see any reason to respond further to your nonsense.. you ask for "peer reviews".. i ask for evidence that disproves the assertions i have referenced.. any simpleton can challenge those that do the work, try offering some corresponding contrary evidence.. try bringing some substance to the discussion.. your notion of: because it ain't measured it ain't so.. is just sad.. contribute something besides sarcastic skepticism.. put forth your own beliefs..

The science you ask for "peer reviews" from is the same science spending billions of dollars researching these issues.. your only faith is in the "peer reviews"? You are asking everyone to do the research for you, you could not have done any real research and hold the position you have put forth here.. or, you are just another whiney little kid that gets off on arguing with informed people.. in either case, you have nothing to offer this discussion..

Be well..

[RonH]

NJM, I like the picture. It's very nice, but I have a question. Are they wearing something on their head? If they aren't, I think you drew an alien. :p


"Aside from the bioelectricity version, there is also emotional and mental types. To record these with technology of today would be analogous to taking astronomy measurements with a turkey baster. It is ill-equiped to do the job."

And then of course there is the gem and gist of your woo. Well WHICH ONE is it? How much validity is there in all the studies and links you quack on about if in the next breath you hasten to explain that science is as you put it "ill-equipped to do the job"?

Which one is what? Which one is bioelectricity? If that is what you are asking, that is the material world version, not the emotional or mental versions.

If this is not what you are asking, I'll need more specifics from you, so speak up.


What good is your evidence

The reasoning for determining just how good this evidence is is less objective and more subjective. When involving the perspectives of those in the mystical/energy communities, you'll run the range of people who believe in an afterlife that believe in a number of planes of existence and there are those that believe in no afterlife and just believe in working with energy.

However, in both...it comes down to what feels right for you, not necessarily 'what should feel right for everyone or they are doing something wrong'.


and why should I not laugh at you sticking your head up your but if the very argument YOU make starts out with "well all the evidence we have is really questionable because the tools we use to collect the evidence is really very poor" but when I refuse to drink the cool-aid there is something wrong with me:rolleyes:

I have done nothing of the sort. I have never said it is questionable or even implied it. If that's what you took from it, it isn't my fault you added a meaning.

I said it is limited evidence with the current scientific development level of the planet when trying to do an objective analysis.

As I said above, it's up to you on what you want to believe, but you're suggesting we are insane and that we shouldn't be allowed on the board because we don't believe what you believe.

[shortlee]

scholar I am deeply hurt by the things which you have posted on this thread, I myself was once a wiccan with a passion, I am not angry with you I not going to tell you how narrow minded your words are coming across, and that they in fact have NO relevance to the original question

Im simply going to explain that I was not allowed to continue my religion due to the social norms of 'christianity' in which i was abused by freinds and family in ways you would not care to read about, all because i had a different belief and faith to them

I could compile evidence a plenty that suggests Christianity is a made up religion and if anyone wishes me to they only need to ask, but I wouldn't do that on a forum because i know how important religion is to people and i wouldn't want you to feel discriminated against.

If it is at all possible I would like scholars posts on wicca removed as it is open discrimination. I do not pretend to understand christianity and insult it, and scholar should not be doing the same to a religion that is important in ways im sure he would struggle to understand! his words are of a brainwashed, bordering on paraniod human being.

as i said please remove these posts if at all possible, if not then I would like an apology, I dont mean to be pedantic or an 'fussy' but the claims he made were not only serious but untrue

[Scott R. Brown]

scholar I am deeply hurt by the things which you have posted on this thread, I myself was once a wiccan with a passion, I am not angry with you I not going to tell you how narrow minded your words are coming across, and that they in fact have NO relevance to the original question

Im simply going to explain that I was not allowed to continue my religion due to the social norms of 'christianity' in which i was abused by freinds and family in ways you would not care to read about, all because i had a different belief and faith to them

I could compile evidence a plenty that suggests Christianity is a made up religion and if anyone wishes me to they only need to ask, but I wouldn't do that on a forum because i know how important religion is to people and i wouldn't want you to feel discriminated against.

If it is at all possible I would like scholars posts on wicca removed as it is open discrimination. I do not pretend to understand christianity and insult it, and scholar should not be doing the same to a religion that is important in ways im sure he would struggle to understand! his words are of a brainwashed, bordering on paraniod human being.

as i said please remove these posts if at all possible, if not then I would like an apology, I dont mean to be pedantic or an 'fussy' but the claims he made were not only serious but untrue

Hi shortlee,

In America we don't take down a post just because it hurts someone else's feelings. You are responsible for your feelings being hurt, NOT scholar. Take responsibility for your own feelings. It is more improper to make someone conform to your idea of what is appropriate then to write something that offends others. It is unproductive to try to change the world since the world doesn't care what you think or how you feel. It is more productive to change yourself. That is, allow the world to be the world and understand that approval of the world system is not a requirement for something to be valuable to you.

That which is different is always scorned by popular culture. You cannot change it because it is the way (Tao) of social groups. The world does not have to approve of you and you do not have to seek the world's approval. If you require the approval of others to validate your experiences and thoughts then you are a slave to the world system and this is where the problem lays, not with scholar's comments.

scholar was sharing an opinion while you are trying to force your personal idea of what is right or wrong on everyone here by changing the format of this BB! Your sin is greater than his! He voiced an opinion, but did NOT try to change your behavior. You are trying to change the format/behavior of the board just because YOU allowed your feelings to be hurt by someone else. The reality is YOU allowed your feelings to he hurt by scholar. It is your responsibility NOT scholar's! Your reaction to his comments could be used as a personal revelation that allows you to understand your own inner mind and make your own internal adjustments. If you take this opportunity to change yourself you will increase your personal insight and become one step closer to being unaffected by the vicissitudes of life! This will increase your personal power and the effectiveness of your Wiccan practice!

This is an open BB. You have a right to say what you like within the rules of the forum and so does scholar. If they took down every post that offended someone there wouldn't be much on the BB.

I like the way you express your feelings in a more or less dignified manner, but your time would be better spent educating us on what you perceive to be the inaccuracies of scholar's comments. This is how an open discussion compares and contrasts ideas.

So far we have only learned about your feelings and not Wicca. The reality is most people don't care about your feelings, but might be interested in how your experience of Wicca demonstrates scholar's view's inaccurate.

[shortlee]

Okay fair point give me a few days and ill be back it will take me some time to get the evidence

All i can say is that im glad I dont live in America, if scholar had made a reasonable argument about how HE Perceives wicca to be unjustifyed then fair enough. what he did was blaber on about satanism, his comments belong in the age of the witch hunts. I know there is freedom of speech and all that stuff but what happened to a bit of good manners, politness and general 'im not going to insult people today' he can comment on everything else and insult me that doesnt bother me but preaching lies about religion is a different mattter.

But i guess that would make me just as bad as him if i did not make a compelling argument to prove his words are lies like i said il be back in a few days

thankyou scott

[Scott R. Brown]

Hi shortlee,

Thank you for understanding my intent was benevolent when responding to your post.

I support your right to disagree with scholar and I actually support your right to be upset with his post if that is how you choose to react. I just want to try to avoid a witch hunt in trying to avoid witch hunts.

If you perceive his information/opinion to be false then it does the readers here a benefit if you, who have direct experience with the topic, inform those of us who are not as well informed about your own experiences and understanding of the practices of Wicca. This might have the beneficial result of undoing any perceived damage you think may have occurred as a result of scholar's comments.

[GeneChing]

almost put it in our media vampires thread (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53290). silly me.

Psychic Vampires Walk Among Us (http://www.usavanguard.com/psychic-vampires-walk-among-us-1.856412)
By Patrick Senn & Travis Brewer PARAPSYCHOLOGICAL INVESTIGATORS

Published: Monday, November 2, 2009

Unlike stereotypical blood-sucking vampires, psychic vampires feed off of human energy. Michelle Belanger explains these differences and her position as a psychic vampire.

Obviously, not all vampires come from Transylvania.

They don't necessarily have any unusual aversions to sunlight or garlic, and they don't "vant to suck your blood" any more than the average person. If they all sucked blood and vampirized every victim with every bite, then there'd be a hell of a lot of them attacking from pretty much every shadow by now, so obviously that can't be true, right?

Obviously.

So, then, once all the hackneyed stereotypes are thrown out, what exactly is a vampire? Perhaps more importantly, could such a thing ever truly have existed?

There was the real-life Romanian folk hero Vlad Tepes. Vlad did some crazy things, like impaling folks from anus to mouth on long, oiled stakes, which he would arrange in various geometric shapes.

To be fair, he did this to drive the invading Ottoman Empire's troops out of his homeland. Vlad III, Prince of Wallachia, was probably the original “sanguinarian” (or blood-drinking) vampire.

The real vampire is a creature that steals its victims' life energy, whether through blood or other means. Stealing vital energy from another to feed the self is a predatory lifestyle that many parasites have adapted to immaculately.

Not all people who claim to be a part of the (mostly American and European) underground vampire subculture drink blood.

Many of them claim to be “psychic vampires,” and even they readily admit that “vampire” is not the right word.

Remember Qi (phonetically: chee)? If not, it's the life force that Traditional Chinese Medicine states flows through every living thing. According to Traditional Chinese Medicine, there are some people who are naturally low in this vital energy.

In the East, these people are recognized as suffering from a medical condition that can be fatal if not treated by a qualified specialist who can perform the proper acupuncture and acupressure, as well as teach the individual the proper Qi-gathering techniques.

If you're in the West, though, you'll encounter medical doctors don't believe in Qi or any vital energy. Those theories were supposedly disproven hundreds of years ago, they believe.

Due to the non-acceptance of this theory in the West, people with naturally low levels of this energy typically don't have access to proper care for their condition and often resort to taking this vital energy from others to survive.

If they don't, their bodies will begin to deteriorate, leading to organ malfunctions.

Eventually, they will die. Since there's no other word for one who takes the vital energy from others, they call themselves “psychic vampires.”

One of these “psychic vampires” visited USA on Oct. 21 and gave a presentation about this elusive subculture.

Michelle Belanger agreed to sit down with USA's Parapsychological Investigators (PSI) afterward to talk more about what exactly makes a psychic vampire.

Belanger described a typical “feeding session” for us.

She begins by envisioning life energy as “light” emanating from her willing donor.

After meditating to enter an altered state of consciousness, she envisions connecting the light of the donor to her own, as if completing a circuit, and then draws this “light” from them to herself.

Belanger is a strong advocate of responsible energy transfer, and has done much to promote safety and responsibility in all of the general vampire subculture.

She stated that in college she tried to quit taking the life energy of others cold-turkey, with nearly fatal results.

According to Belanger, she became hospital-bound within weeks, suffering from severe chest aches and heart problems, so much so that a doctor recommended a heart transplant.

Supposedly, these psychic vampires tend to exhibit other paranormal activity as well. Belanger considers herself an empath, a psychically-sensitive person who can paranormally gain knowledge of another person's emotions and intentions.

USA PSI asked Belanger to participate in an impromptu Zener card-guessing experiment, a classic parapsychological test used to determine extrasensory perception (ESP) ability.

She scored seven cards correct out of 25, an average of 28 percent accuracy. Pure chance scores would be five cards right, an average of 20 percent.

To get a complete idea of one's ESP abilities, notable parapsychologist Dr. Carroll B. Nash insists that a minimum of 250 trials be conducted (as in USA PSI's own ESP research study that concluded last week).

Belanger was unable to produce electromagnetic field (EMF) fluctuation, citing travel-related issues and no access to an energy source.

She declined when USA PSI volunteered themselves as energy sources, indicating that she refused to feed off of strangers. Belanger claims to be highly sensitive to human energy fields under optimum conditions.

If you ignore the stereotypes and consider that parasitic vampirism is perfectly natural, the vampire as a human energy-taker becomes much more interesting and less fearsome.

USA PSI must insist that you do not try to take anyone's life energy unless you have no other choice, and then only if the donor is willing.

Psychic vampires have been very careful to keep their good name intact, and anyone who ruins it for them will inevitably have to face a whole demographic of ****ed-off vampires.

[TenTigers]

I know there are some people who, after spending time with them, suck the life out of you. They just drain you. Mostly , these are whiners, complainers, "poor little me's," my ex, and other mental/emotional incompetants.
Now that we identified them as vampires...can we kill them?

[Nexus]

I know there are some people who, after spending time with them, suck the life out of you. They just drain you. Mostly , these are whiners, complainers, "poor little me's," my ex, and other mental/emotional incompetants.
Now that we identified them as vampires...can we kill them?

Yes, but lets be sure we very clearly have identified them first.

They are better known as the five basic human motivators:
Fear
Jealousy
Lust
Greed
Vanity

All of these operate on very low and subtle vibrations. What this means is that once you are affected by these vibrations, you are prone to being manipulated. That is why marketing companies employ all of these tactics, to weaken your state before manipulating you to buy something.

In order to "kill them" as you call it, know thyself, know thy enemy, adopt and adapt their effective strategies, not to dominate them and act like them but to keep yourself free from their holds. Then you can buy yourself time and eventually they will start killing themselves off.

Personal empowerment is the key, creating your own reality, choosing your thoughts, your actions, your acquaintances, who you want to be around and how you want to interact with those you surround yourself with. Engage in life! Have fun!