Shen Wu Combatives Seminar [Archive] - Kung Fu Magazine Forums

Three Harmonies

12-14-2006, 05:14 PM

Three Harmonies Chinese Martial Arts
Is proud to present:

A Weekend Intensive on
Shen Wu Combatives
With
Tim Cartmell

February 10-11, 2007
Seattle, WA.

If pre-registered by February 1st:
Single session: $65
Two Sessions: $100
Three Sessions: $125
Whole weekend: $150
After February 1st, add $25!
Location and other information will be provided with registration packet!
Tim will also be available for private lessons by appointment!

To register or for more information contact:
Jake Burroughs 206-941-3232 / three_harmonies@hotmail.com
www.threeharmonies.com

INSIDE:
As with all seminars I host, these workshops are hands on and open to any and all practitioners regardless of style, rank, or experience. Come with an open mind and a notebook and be prepared to have fun and train hard!
Session I: Shen Wu Grappling & Counter Grappling
Saturday 12noon – 3pm
Drawing from his latest DVD project on standing grappling and counter grappling (see preview at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuP6cApKAD8 ) Tim will present theories, principles, and of course applications dealing with various stand up grappling scenarios one is most likely to encounter in self defense situations. Including head locks, body locks, chokes, as well as various throws and takedowns.
Great for women, men, and martial practitioners of all levels of experience this seminar will prepare you for common situations found in modern day altercations such as:
• Easy to apply escapes and counters
• Utilizing leverage in lieu of brute strength
• Debunking common myths such as groin strikes and eye pokes
• Avoiding ground fighting
• Takedown prevention
And much, much more……..

SESSION II: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu - Saturday 5-8pm

Learn Brazilian Jiu Jitsu from one of the best! Tim has proven his skills on numerous occasions winning the Copa Pacifica seven times, the Pan Am’s twice, and taking Silver in the World Championships 2005 held in Brazil! This seminar will improve your BJJ game adding more tools to your arsenal, or teaching you the basics of fighting on the ground if you are new to this popular art.
• Various submissions will be explored and taught in great detail
• Learn the importance of hip placement and control
• Improve your ground game as a grappler, mixed martial artist, or for self defense situations
• Tim will combine principle, theory, and application into one coherent workshop

SESSION III & SESSION IV: 13 POSTURES OF TAIJI
Sunday: 10am – 1pm & 2-5pm
This seminar will clarify a lot of the mystery surrounding the theories and principles of Taiji regardless of style. Tim will translate concepts such as Peng, Liu, Ji, An etc. into simple to understand, easy to apply principles using modern day combative scenarios. Taiji has always been considered a very effective martial art consisting of 80% grappling, yet many practitioners have never been taught the combative aspects of this beautiful martial art. While many talk of understanding the deep theories, few can actually apply them in real time scenarios. Join us and learn…..
• Discover hidden applications within your practice
• Simple to understand methods and applications to the 13 Postures
• Learn to effectively uproot your opponent
• Understand why Taiji is considered one of the most powerful martial arts
• Improve your push hands practice, as well as your self defense applications

About the Instructor:
Tim Cartmell has become one of the most sought after teachers of martial combative’s in North America. Spending over 10 years in Taiwan and China training with some of the best fighters the Chinese Martial Arts had to offer, as well as fighting (and winning) several full contact fights. Tim then came back to California to immerse himself in training Brazilian Jiu Jitsu because he realized that although his stand up fighting was good, he was ignorant on the ground. Eight years later he has become Cleber Luciano’s only black belt with numerous wins at the Copa, along with silver in the Mundials (World Championships of BJJ in Brazil) in 2005.
Over the past 30 years Tim Cartmell has studied the arts of Xing Yi (Hebei / Shanxi), Bagua (Luo Dexiu’s disciple), San Soo, Taiji (Sun / Chen / Yang), as well as various systems of grappling.
Tim has authored “Effortless Combat Throws,” co-authored “Passing the Guard” and “Xing Yi Nei Gong,” as well as translated Zhao Da Yuan’s pinnacle joint manipulation book “Practical Chin Na,” Dong Zhong Yi’s classic Shuai Chiao text “The Method of Chinese Wrestling,” and the only English translation of Sun Lu Tang’s historic “A Study of Taijiquan.” His current project is a series of DVD’s on Clinch fighting, and stand up grappling.
Tim continues to teach fulltime in Huntington Beach, CA. offering lessons in mixed martial arts incorporating the stand up techniques of Bagua, Xing Yi, and Taiji along with the ground strategy of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu to create the Shen Wu system of modern day combative’s. For more info on Tim or his teachings visit www.shenwu.com

lunghushan

12-19-2006, 02:45 PM

"Debunking common myths such as groin strikes and eye pokes"

Yeah, can't use those groin strikes or eye pokes. :rolleyes:

Three Harmonies

12-19-2006, 11:32 PM

You coming to the seminar?

YiLiQuan1

12-20-2006, 12:14 AM

"Debunking common myths such as groin strikes and eye pokes"

Yeah, can't use those groin strikes or eye pokes. :rolleyes:

The debunking stems from those who still cling to the outdated belief that grappling skills (stand up as well as ground) can be easily countered by fish hooking, eye poking, biting, hitting the groin, etc. Even in the face of sufficient evidence to the contrary, some folks still maintain their fantasies of magical qi strikes and debilitating finger jabs.

One of the best examples I've seen and felt is:

You are mounted by your opponent. You decide to eye poke him in order to stop his G&P. He takes your now extended arm and blows your elbow with a vicious arm bar (which, had you kept your hands in, he never would have had the chance to get, but you just had to poke him in the eye...).

Jake -

Since this is far enough out to plan for, and doesn't conflict (yet) with anything I have on my calendar, I'm going to do my ****edest to be there... I'm sorry about missing the last one, and this is an opportunity that doesn't come along often.

Three Harmonies

12-20-2006, 08:27 AM

Matt
Thank you very much for illustrating my point. LungHuooey is the guy who does not want to train with anyone, yet has something to say in regards to everyone elses training. Silly.
Well bro, I hope to make the opportunity more availabe to all in the future. If all continues to go well with these seminars Tim will be out every other month or so. I appreciate your support, and hopefully you can make it. But no worries if not, Tim will be coming back as long as I am a student!!
Cheers
Jake :)

YiLiQuan1

12-20-2006, 08:39 AM

Matt
Thank you very much for illustrating my point. LungHuooey is the guy who does not want to train with anyone, yet has something to say in regards to everyone elses training. Silly.

In another thread, lunghushan stated that he keeps his training circle small out of fear of contamination with hepatitis or any of several other transmittable diseases.

Though I agree it's a concern, I think it's extreme paranoia to confine your training partners to only a handful of people whose medical history you've (allegedly) been privvy to. Sex partners, sure. Limit those. But training partners?

And as much as I think there really is an "anti-grapple" to be had (can you say "Chuck Liddell?") from a striker's point of view, that's not going to stop me learning what the grapple-head is trying to do to me so I can be better prepared to defend against it...

Anyway, see you in Feb.

Three Harmonies

12-20-2006, 10:36 AM

True dat Matt!
Cheers, and happy holidays bro!
Jake :)

lunghushan

12-20-2006, 12:39 PM

In another thread, lunghushan stated that he keeps his training circle small out of fear of contamination with hepatitis or any of several other transmittable diseases.

Though I agree it's a concern, I think it's extreme paranoia to confine your training partners to only a handful of people whose medical history you've (allegedly) been privvy to. Sex partners, sure. Limit those. But training partners?

Anyway, see you in Feb.

It's funny you mention the sex partners thing, because I do actually consider my training partners to be possible infection carriers. Why?

I raised the issue just out of curiosity on Bullshido and people gave me crap about it, including the co-founder.

Check back a little while, and the co-founder on there got herpes gladitorum at a BJJ tourney. IRONIC ISN'T IT???

Anyway, I use the hepatitis thing as an excuse, but honestly my teacher doesn't like training with a lot of people, and I don't really want to waste my time dealing with a lot of other people's techniques.

Because, your stuff all sucks. ;)

lunghushan

12-20-2006, 01:18 PM

But, seriously, I used to do a lot more partner practice, and I'd go to a new school and do all their stuff, do their basic stuff, but it gets old after a while.

And I tried to do more partner practice with people but they all want to do their stuff, and one person usually tends to try to dominate. Always.

So I even tried you, TH, to see if you wanted to work on some xingyi, but you wanted to give lessons of your stuff, not to do what I wanted to do.

Why should I pay somebody to learn something I don't want to? Why pay you to to practice your stuff???

So I just gave up on it. Tired of dealing with all the crap. Bottom line is what people around here are doing is pretty lame anyway, basic kickboxing and some grappling.

YiLiQuan1

12-20-2006, 01:29 PM

It's funny you mention the sex partners thing, because I do actually consider my training partners to be possible infection carriers. Why?

I raised the issue just out of curiosity on Bullshido and people gave me crap about it, including the co-founder.

Check back a little while, and the co-founder on there got herpes gladitorum at a BJJ tourney. IRONIC ISN'T IT???

Well, though I'd agree that training partners are potential carriers of infectious conditions, getting over-excited about what amounts to a wrestling/grappling related cold sore seems a bit much... Hepatitis gives rise for more concern, but it's easily prevented in competitive arenas via blood test. The only way for a local teacher to prevent infection is for students and potential students to go to their healthcare provider, get a blood test, and provide a copy to the teacher. The problem is that I'm not sure the teacher can legally require that kind of information, and there's every potential (especially in this state) for a frivilous lawsuit for discrimination of some sort.

Anyway, I use the hepatitis thing as an excuse, but honestly my teacher doesn't like training with a lot of people, and I don't really want to waste my time dealing with a lot of other people's techniques.

Who is your teacher?

Because, your stuff all sucks. ;)

Your momma. ;)

But, seriously, I used to do a lot more partner practice, and I'd go to a new school and do all their stuff, do their basic stuff, but it gets old after a while.

And I tried to do more partner practice with people but they all want to do their stuff, and one person usually tends to try to dominate. Always.

So I even tried you, TH, to see if you wanted to work on some xingyi, but you wanted to give lessons of your stuff, not to do what I wanted to do.

I've seen this argument before, so I'm not going to get wrapped up in it again. Bottom line, it sounds like you want everything your way, all the time. When does your partner get a chance to work on his/her interests? The way you write this, it really sounds like it's all about you... Partner practice is about both partners getting something out of it.

But whatever. I'm not carrying that any further. :rolleyes:

lunghushan

12-20-2006, 01:33 PM

I've seen this argument before, so I'm not going to get wrapped up in it again. Bottom line, it sounds like you want everything your way, all the time. When does your partner get a chance to work on his/her interests? The way you write this, it really sounds like it's all about you... Partner practice is about both partners getting something out of it.

But whatever. I'm not carrying that any further. :rolleyes:

No, I only want things my way in partner practice 50% of the time. I usually wind up with 10%, or giving lessons for free, both of which are a total waste of time.

And yeah, I'm not going to bring it up any further. I've been through this route before, too, many times, and it only brings up bad blood. I couldn't resist the eye poke and groin thing, though.

Three Harmonies

12-20-2006, 02:11 PM

Lungfooey,
So I take it you are not coming to the seminar by your tone!?!?!? :rolleyes:
Then kindly take your "expert" trolling somewhere else.
Thanks,
Jake :cool:

lunghushan

12-20-2006, 03:59 PM

Lungfooey,
So I take it you are not coming to the seminar by your tone!?!?!? :rolleyes:
Then kindly take your "expert" trolling somewhere else.
Thanks,
Jake :cool:

Yeah, I'm not planning on going. Seminars are just teasers and since nobody in Seattle allows anybody to use outside stuff in their classes, it would be pointless anyway.

This would basically just be a promo for your school and for Tim.

YiLiQuan1

12-21-2006, 02:25 PM

Yeah, I'm not planning on going. Seminars are just teasers and since nobody in Seattle allows anybody to use outside stuff in their classes, it would be pointless anyway.

Dude, you are one of the singularly most negative people I've ever encountered... :rolleyes: You see no good to be had in anything. You have plenty of schools in Seattle to choose from, some better than others, but you hide behind either your fear of infectious disease, your dislike for being "forced" to learn something new (because you evidently know it all already), your dislike for training with other people who have an interest in training their own material (where you seem only concerned with training yours), or the distaste of an instructor trying to pay the bills as your reason for not training.

From the seminars I've attended (Sensei John Kerker, Isshin-ryu, hosted by one of a variety of Isshin-ryu schools from Enumclaw to Kent over the last several years; Martial University, hosted by Sensei Kris Wilder of West Seattle Karate (Goju-ryu), which presents no less than 8 seminars each from 6 - 10 teachers during a 1 day event); Sifu Phillip Starr's annual WA seminar, hosted by our training group in Tacoma; as well as others over the years...), I've never been to one that was solely a "teaser."

This would basically just be a promo for your school and for Tim.

Bottom line, you've got issues. I doubt that Jake is making huge bank on his seminar hosting, and given the amount of sheer effort that goes into coordinating crap like this, even if he made a few bucks, who cares? He almost deserves some cash for his time.

I'd be interested in seeing what kind of posts you could make if you put the effort into it like you do when you make excuses.

Sorry, man, but ****... Get over it already.

Three Harmonies

12-21-2006, 04:42 PM

Matt
Nice post. Good points.
Dude, if I sat down and figured out how much I have spent on learning and training compared to how much I have made from it over the last 16 years.....well, the numbers would be stupid crazy! Right now I have 4 private students. That is it. I wish I was making serious bank, but in all reality..... not even enough to buy beer with!
You will have a good time, and LEARN a thing or two at Tim & Jake's promo-teaser-money making seminar! At least I have a few of you all fooled :rolleyes: ;)

Cheers
Jake :)

lunghushan

12-21-2006, 04:47 PM

Dude, you are one of the singularly most negative people I've ever encountered... :rolleyes: ...

I'd be interested in seeing what kind of posts you could make if you put the effort into it like you do when you make excuses.

Sorry, man, but ****... Get over it already.

Bottom line is, it's not so important to learn 10 million things. If you learn 300 and don't have enough time to even practice those, why go some place and learn more?

MMA fighters win with a very limited arsenal of techniques.

I could post a lot about the efficacy of groin strikes and eye jabs, and how those can be used even in a grappling environment, but since I'm not Tim and Shenwu, nobody will believe me anyway.

But anyway, I'll not bother posting anymore on these threads. If you like going to a ton of seminars and stuff, then go ahead. There's only a few people I'd go see at a seminar and none of them come around here.

But seriously, seminars are like videos. I don't think they are a substitute for a teacher -- they are usually an overview of material, and as with any class if you don't have a place to practice it, it has a limited usefulness.

In the past I railed against teachers not allowing outside techniques to be used in a class or training environment, but honestly that's their perogative and nobody else seems to think it's a problem, so I've shut up about it. But it doesn't mean that I'm going to waste time and $$$ going to a bunch of different seminars for overviews of stuff I can't practice anywhere.

And BTW, Yiliquan1, I don't think it's negative to point out problems with things. I'm providing feedback here. TH says he has 4 private students. Well why doesn't he have more? Maybe he's not offering what people want. What I wanted with him was somebody to practice xingyi with, not necessarily his xingyi, but a training partner. He just wanted to give privates of his stuff, so that's one fewer student.

A lot of people complain about involvement of students, well if you're not offering what they want, then why should they come to study with you? I don't understand the whole dictate to the student thing. If the student is paying you $$$ then they should get what they want.

cjurakpt

12-21-2006, 06:44 PM

lunghushan

12-21-2006, 06:59 PM

dude, I have a very simple solution for your problem: go to a local college, and hire some of their athletes to be crash test dummies for you; that way, you get people who are a) physically fit; b) medically cleared; c) not interested in doing their own stuff; like that, you are hiring someone to do what you want, not getting involved with an instructor in anyway; it's a win-win situation

also, it will give you something to do other than posting on the forum...

I'm just posting for conversation. Anyway I did that, I put an ad up on Craigslist and found a few people who would be sparring partners and training dummies for $20 per hour. The problem was, it was like paying them to give them lessons because they were clueless (karate BBs).

So I'm not really worried about it anymore. I just don't think other people should waste their money with a lot of nonsense they can't practice. Besides, I haven't posted up here for like 3 months or something until the past couple of days.

Honestly, I think it is a problem teachers aren't more open, but they have some good points, like taking away from class time. So I'm not really going to concern myself with it.

YiLiQuan1

12-21-2006, 07:37 PM

Bottom line is, it's not so important to learn 10 million things. If you learn 300 and don't have enough time to even practice those, why go some place and learn more?

Because it's an issue of range, experience, and preparation.

MMA fighters win with a very limited arsenal of techniques.

But they're prepared to use much more. Or are you implying that they only learn a handful of techniques overall?

I could post a lot about the efficacy of groin strikes and eye jabs, and how those can be used even in a grappling environment, but since I'm not Tim and Shenwu, nobody will believe me anyway.

No, it's that their use is limited and against an opponent who is prepared and ready (e.g. your MMA example), they're going to be of very limited effectiveness.

But anyway, I'll not bother posting anymore on these threads.

You ***** a lot, but you don't provide anything in the way of solutions. In the Army, we don't mind people pointing out problems so long as they have some possible recommendations to fix things. You complain about so much, but beyond isolating yourself and pointing fingers, you don't seem to be doing much to change things for the better... :rolleyes:

If you like going to a ton of seminars and stuff, then go ahead. There's only a few people I'd go see at a seminar and none of them come around here.

Again with the negativity... I go to seminars more to meet people and break down walls between arts, styles, schools, etc., than I do to "collect techniques." The technical information that I bring home allows be to view what I already do, what I already know, from an external standpoint, to measure it, compare it, and determine where the "holes" are.

But seriously, seminars are like videos. I don't think they are a substitute for a teacher -- they are usually an overview of material, and as with any class if you don't have a place to practice it, it has a limited usefulness.

Well, you limit your places to practice all on your own. That's your problem. The seminars you've attended sound like either a) they really were as bad as you make them out to be or b) you went in with a closed mind in the first place and were unable to see any relevance to what you already knew. In either case, my experience has shown that yours isn't as definitive as you would have us believe it is.

In the past I railed against teachers not allowing outside techniques to be used in a class or training environment, but honestly that's their perogative and nobody else seems to think it's a problem, so I've shut up about it.

So you go into Teacher A's school, to learn Teacher A's style, and you want to practice the material from Teacher G's style instead? WTF? :confused: And you wonder why they got upset? You'd have to be pretty thick to think you were going to Teacher A's school to learn Teacher A's style, along with a bunch of other people paying money to learn Teacher A's style, and that you were going to disrupt their training to practice something you learned elsewhere...

But it doesn't mean that I'm going to waste time and $$$ going to a bunch of different seminars for overviews of stuff I can't practice anywhere.

First, nobody said you had to go. You jumped in here and chimed in with the negative BS. Second, you and only you are limiting what you can practice and where. Ever think your attitude might be part of the problem? I can only speak to what I've read here, but so far you don't sound like someone I'd be keen on crossing arms with... You want to focus solely on your own training, and appear to be put off when your partner wants to work on his/her material instead. It sounds pretty selfish, especially when you combine the whole "he's so closed-minded" bit about not being allowed to (again) practice your material (likely from another class/teacher/style/school) in someone else's training hall...

And BTW, Yiliquan1, I don't think it's negative to point out problems with things. I'm providing feedback here.

Without suggested solutions, you're just a whiny cuss. You're a squeaky wheel hoping for grease. You're providing not feedback, just personal complaints...

TH says he has 4 private students. Well why doesn't he have more? Maybe he's not offering what people want.

Perhaps. Then again, perhaps his approach doesn't suit the people he's interacted with. Maybe his teaching skill isn't what someone was looking for. There could be a whole host of reasons, to include he expected them to train harder than they'd anticipated. Your argument, however, rings a little hollow, especially since you continually whine about how nobody wants to play by your rules... It strikes me that, yet again, you went to someone wanting to "train," but presenting yourself as a student. Well, students learn what they're taught. If you wanted a training partner, that's easily taken care of, but there's going to be a requisite amount of cooperation in determining what gets trained on. You don't seem willing to do that, hence your difficulty in finding people to play with...

What I wanted with him was somebody to practice xingyi with, not necessarily his xingyi, but a training partner. He just wanted to give privates of his stuff, so that's one fewer student.

There's a perfect example!!! You wanted to join his teaching group, but not as a student but as a training partner/equal. Wrong answer. If you consider yourself a student of Teacher A, expect to learn Teacher A's style. Otherwise go home (as you've done) and quit *****ing. Given that Jake is focusing on teaching (which is still a form of personal training, if you ask me), you coming to him with "wanna spar" on your lips sounds like a bad call on your part. He's not looking to train with someone, he's looking to train someone. There's a difference.

A lot of people complain about involvement of students, well if you're not offering what they want, then why should they come to study with you? I don't understand the whole dictate to the student thing. If the student is paying you $$$ then they should get what they want.

What??? They should get what they want? Why, because they know better than the teacher what needs to take place during the learning process? The logic behind that kind of statement belies a complete lack of understanding of the teacher/student relationship, martial or otherwise. A student, by definition, lacks the same knowledge, insight, experience, and skill that the teacher will provide through instruction and training. How can a student, never once having trained a single day in Style A, go to Teacher A and dictate what Teacher A should or should not teach him to do??? That's flatly assinine. If you genuinely believe that, you've got a lot more learning to do, and I'm not talking about punches and kicks... :rolleyes:

lunghushan

12-21-2006, 07:47 PM

What??? They should get what they want? Why, because they know better than the teacher what needs to take place during the learning process? The logic behind that kind of statement belies a complete lack of understanding of the teacher/student relationship, martial or otherwise. A student, by definition, lacks the same knowledge, insight, experience, and skill that the teacher will provide through instruction and training. How can a student, never once having trained a single day in Style A, go to Teacher A and dictate what Teacher A should or should not teach him to do??? That's flatly assinine. If you genuinely believe that, you've got a lot more learning to do, and I'm not talking about punches and kicks... :rolleyes:

Oh, whatever. I've been through all these arguments before. If I take xingyi from teacher (A) then how am I supposed to practice that when I go somewhere else, to some other place? I don't, because every school has their own style.

I went to many schools around Seattle and it was a bit funny because you'd see the same guys in Wing Chun as in kickboxing/pankration as in silat as in tai chi as in bagua... we'd start saying 'hi' to each other.

And I started to wonder, how is it these guys take so much stuff, but don't seem to be getting very good at any of it?

Basically I think it's because they have to start over in every new style, and they practice a different style at every school. So if you go over to a new school, even within the same style, you have to start over.

And that's just a complete waste of time, because you never get good.

But whatever. I'm a bit tired of this whole argument, so I won't argue with you anymore. Bottomline is I don't really care anymore. It's boring. :)

YiLiQuan1

12-21-2006, 07:56 PM

Oh, whatever. I've been through all these arguments before. If I take xingyi from teacher (A) then how am I supposed to practice that when I go somewhere else, to some other place? I don't, because every school has their own style.

No, you practice on your own. Class time is for learning. Off-time/out of class time is for training. You don't go to Teacher B's school to practice Teacher A's stuff, at least not during his classes/lessons. That's just rude.

I went to many schools around Seattle and it was a bit funny because you'd see the same guys in Wing Chun as in kickboxing/pankration as in silat as in tai chi as in bagua... we'd start saying 'hi' to each other.

And I started to wonder, how is it these guys take so much stuff, but don't seem to be getting very good at any of it?

Jack of all trades, master of none? Ever hear the phrase "you can't serve 2 masters?" That sounds like it'd be the case there... 100% of your time in one school yields X result. 50% of your time in one school, 50% in another, you've just cut your results in half...

Basically I think it's because they have to start over in every new style, and they practice a different style at every school. So if you go over to a new school, even within the same style, you have to start over.

If it's the same style, same lineage, then starting over isn't an issue. As much as you seem to have jumped around, at least the way you make your training sound, it's no wonder you feel like you're getting nowhere...

And that's just a complete waste of time, because you never get good.

Unless you practice the material on your own time.

But whatever. I'm a bit tired of this whole argument, so I won't argue with you anymore. Bottomline is I don't really care anymore. It's boring. :)

You just argued your point, so why say you won't argue it. Bottom line is that you sound like you've already given up on training in general.

lunghushan

12-21-2006, 08:07 PM

If it's the same style, same lineage, then starting over isn't an issue. As much as you seem to have jumped around, at least the way you make your training sound, it's no wonder you feel like you're getting nowhere...

Try to find the same style, same lineage in xingyi, for example. And don't say Hebei or Sanxi because those are different depending upon the instructor. Of the xingyi instructors I've gone to and I won't even say who because you'll get on my case, no 2 have ever done things the same. Even Pi Quan has different emphasis depending upon the school. Bottom line is you have to pretty much start over with every new instructor.

Taiji, tons of schools don't do striking. Nobody even agrees on taiji applications.

Unless you practice the material on your own time.

How are you supposed to find partners for practice on your own time of random material? Everybody wants to work on their stuff, not yours.

You just argued your point, so why say you won't argue it. Bottom line is that you sound like you've already given up on training in general.

Well there were a whole slew of negative things you threw at me there, and I'm not going to argue them.

I've given up on most partner training is all. I thought the hire a dummy idea was a good one, but it didn't pan out. I don't like it, but I don't know any alternative. I'm tired of starting a new style at every new school.

YiLiQuan1

12-21-2006, 08:22 PM

Try to find the same style, same lineage in xingyi, for example. And don't say Hebei or Sanxi because those are different depending upon the instructor. Of the xingyi instructors I've gone to and I won't even say who because you'll get on my case, no 2 have ever done things the same. Even Pi Quan has different emphasis depending upon the school. Bottom line is you have to pretty much start over with every new instructor.

And what's so terribly, terribly wrong with learning something new? Aren't you adding to what you've been previously taught? And why are you jumping from school to school so often?

Taiji, tons of schools don't do striking. Nobody even agrees on taiji applications.

Personally, I look at that as a myriad of training opportunities rather than a training limitation... Learn the applications each person has to offer, then train solo to determine what seems to fit the theories best (not to mention your own body type).

How are you supposed to find partners for practice on your own time of random material? Everybody wants to work on their stuff, not yours.

Too strong a generalization, and one my personal experience conflicts with. Sounds more like your approach than anything else...

I've given up on most partner training is all. I thought the hire a dummy idea was a good one, but it didn't pan out. I don't like it, but I don't know any alternative. I'm tired of starting a new style at every new school.

Hiring a "dummy" sounds way too much like hiring a prostitute... Can't get it any other way, so you go looking to pay for it. Instead of finding a school, sticking with it, and making some progress (all the while finding people of like interests at said school with whom you could train in your off time), instead you isolate yourself and end up learning nothing. Self-fulfilling prophecy almost, don't you think?

Whatever. To each their own. Enjoy your "alone time." I prefer to keep my options open and train with as many people from as many styles as I can. Not to learn "their style" but to see how my training, even while acting as the aggressor, fits with or against their technique. You can still learn while being the attacker/aggressor if you know what to look for and pay attention to...

Good luck.

lunghushan

12-21-2006, 08:29 PM

And what's so terribly, terribly wrong with learning something new? Aren't you adding to what you've been previously taught? And why are you jumping from school to school so often?

No, most people don't know the applications to their forms. I was trying out different schools around Seattle trying to find something good, but that's like looking for a needle in a haystack around here.

Personally, I look at that as a myriad of training opportunities rather than a training limitation... Learn the applications each person has to offer, then train solo to determine what seems to fit the theories best (not to mention your own body type).

No, because their applications are mostly repetitive or kindof stink.

Hiring a "dummy" sounds way too much like hiring a prostitute... Can't get it any other way, so you go looking to pay for it. Instead of finding a school, sticking with it, and making some progress (all the while finding people of like interests at said school with whom you could train in your off time), instead you isolate yourself and end up learning nothing. Self-fulfilling prophecy almost, don't you think?

You seem to think the people out there have something to offer. Trust me, most of them all do the same stuff.

Anyways, it sounds like what you're doing works fine for you. :)

lunghushan

12-21-2006, 08:39 PM

Oh, and if you're wondering why I didn't check you guys out, there's 2 main reasons ... distance and attitude.

Driving down to the Ft. Lewis area is a big pain ... plus you guys always stick it to me some way ... like the training dummy prostitute thing. I don't think you've ever made a comment to me which wasn't in some way condescending or insulting.

To train with you, I'd have to endure your and your senior's constant attitude and criticism, which is the main reason I didn't join the military. I had enough of that with my early martial arts teachers.

Anyways, thanks for your comments.

YiLiQuan1

12-21-2006, 09:53 PM

No, most people don't know the applications to their forms. I was trying out different schools around Seattle trying to find something good, but that's like looking for a needle in a haystack around here.

Not sure what you're looking for, then. From what I've heard, seen, or been told, there are several teachers worth training under. Granted, there are a fair number of frauds, kooks, weirdos and whatnot, but there are still good teachers to be had. Sad that you've had such poor luck.

No, because their applications are mostly repetitive or kindof stink.

I guess I look at it this way... Learning good applications from folks adds to my understanding of the movement. Learning crappy applications from folks lets me know a) what others are teaching, b) possible variant interpretations, wrong or right, of the same technique, and most importantly c) that what I'm doing is better than some of what's being presented elsewhere. Overall, win-win-win.

You seem to think the people out there have something to offer. Trust me, most of them all do the same stuff.

When I first started studying martial arts, I was certain that Yiliquan was the be-all, end-all for martial training. I pooh-poohed any and all other arts for the "obvious" and "blatant" errors they were committing. I was hyper-critical of anything I came in contact with, mostly without having any real knowledge of what I was criticizing in the first place.

Later, much later, after having the opportunity to experience many arts in many countries with many practitioners and many teachers, I realized that, as with all things, there would always be a small percentage of highly, highly qualified teachers, a large mass of mediocrity, and a small fringe of freakishness. You either live in a fantasy world where there are unreachable, unattainable standards, or you decide to live in the real world and accept certain facts. I wish there were some way to increase that top slice, and I work toward eliminating the freakish fringe, but the reality is that it's like holding water in your hand...

Ultimately though, it isn't attaining the goal that's important, but making the attempt...

Anyways, it sounds like what you're doing works fine for you. :)

I like it. I've tried several times over the years for a variety of reasons to find something else entirely. Haven't found a substitute for it yet. I've found some things that I really enjoy doing, but nothing that would completely supplant it as my "mother art."

Oh, and if you're wondering why I didn't check you guys out, there's 2 main reasons ... distance and attitude.

Driving down to the Ft. Lewis area is a big pain ... plus you guys always stick it to me some way ... like the training dummy prostitute thing. I don't think you've ever made a comment to me which wasn't in some way condescending or insulting.

The distance I completely understand... It's one reason I rarely venture up to Seattle (that and the overpriced everything and the "I'm from Seattle, bow low and worship me" attitude so many folks seem to have (especially waiters and coffee makers... I mean "baristas" :rolleyes: )

To train with you, I'd have to endure your and your senior's constant attitude and criticism, which is the main reason I didn't join the military. I had enough of that with my early martial arts teachers.

Well, as I've said many times, to each their own. We are brutally honest, we don't hold back, and all of it is aimed toward the betterment of the receiver. Some folks just don't want to admit that their world view may need adjustment. Mine gets adjusted daily - by my Sergeant Major, by my wife, by myself. Life is fluid, learning is constant. But some people can't handle the honesty, want things handed to them, and not only expect, but demand, respect that has never been earned...

lunghushan

12-21-2006, 10:24 PM

When I first started studying martial arts, I was certain that Yiliquan was the be-all, end-all for martial training. I pooh-poohed any and all other arts for the "obvious" and "blatant" errors they were committing. I was hyper-critical of anything I came in contact with, mostly without having any real knowledge of what I was criticizing in the first place.

Later, much later, after having the opportunity to experience many arts in many countries with many practitioners and many teachers, I realized that, as with all things, there would always be a small percentage of highly, highly qualified teachers, a large mass of mediocrity, and a small fringe of freakishness. You either live in a fantasy world where there are unreachable, unattainable standards, or you decide to live in the real world and accept certain facts. I wish there were some way to increase that top slice, and I work toward eliminating the freakish fringe, but the reality is that it's like holding water in your hand...

I guess it's the bad things that I'm against. It's hard to talk about without getting really specific, so I'll get really specific.

Take the upward block, for lack of a better term, for example.

Now this is part of xingyi pao quan, and it is present in numerous martial arts from karate to hung gar to whatever.

At the beginning, they teach you it is just an upward block. I even had a shotokan dojo try to tell me that it was an upward block that you can use against a baseball bat, and if they break your left arm, you can hit them with your right arm.

Okay ... sounds pretty dangerous to me, especially since you're putting the weak bone of your wrist up if you turn your hand completely upwards. So why would you do such a thing in the first place?

Answer ... you shouldn't do such a thing at all ... you never want to block upwards using the weak bone of your wrist for striking. But they never tell you that at the beginning. Most never tell you that at all.

So practically every new school they have you do that. Practically every new school they teach you that this is the move and have you practice it like that. Practically every new school never teaches the proper use of that move. Practically every school doesn't KNOW the proper use of that move.

So why go to new schools and learn utter crapola? I just got tired of it, is all. I got tired of learning 'bow stance' from different people with 2-5 inches difference in the front vs. back foot, getting lectured by lower belts about why I was wrong in a certain stance, why I was doing a move a certain way, etc. When it's not wrong, it's just a difference in THEIR particular school.

Or take Katas. How different, really, are different karate schools katas? There are two main schools of karate katas, and practically every school teaches one or both of those two main schools. With a multitude of variations. Some call it heians some call it pinans, some call it tekki, some call it naihanchi.

But how many schools actually know the applications to karate katas? Very few. Most do the katas and then spar with regular kickboxing.

So every time you go to a new school, you have to learn the kata a different way. A slightly different way, different emphasis. But the core of the kata is the same at every place. So it is a huge waste of time re-learning katas. And they make you re-learn the kata until you have it right usually before they let you spar or do applications.

So I've just gotten tired of it.

Anyway, I'll stop griping now. Bottom line is I'm tired of dealing with MA teachers. The last Hung Ga class I went to, when I was trying to explain to him why I didn't want to learn the basic stuff, said, "Well that's because you've already seen the advanced stuff."

Okay ... so then why did he INSIST that I re-learn all his basic stuff again? I don't know ... but that's one more student he doesn't have.

(Oh, and that was private lessons, BTW, so no excuses about disrupting class).

Well, as I've said many times, to each their own. We are brutally honest, we don't hold back, and all of it is aimed toward the betterment of the receiver. Some folks just don't want to admit that their world view may need adjustment. Mine gets adjusted daily - by my Sergeant Major, by my wife, by myself. Life is fluid, learning is constant. But some people can't handle the honesty, want things handed to them, and not only expect, but demand, respect that has never been earned...

Yeah, it's nothing personal. I just got tired of getting 'corrected' by everybody when they're usually wrong.

Three Harmonies

12-22-2006, 07:28 AM

lunghushan

12-22-2006, 08:11 AM

Excuses are like *******s brother.
If you wish to come by and pay for a private lesson to "try your stuff out" feel free. Last I remember you did not want to pay anything, just train. The fact that you freely admit you TOLD a teacher you did not want to learn anything basic, tells me that your skills (not to mention your maturity and mentality) are severly lacking.

Oh, and anytime you want to come by and work your groin shots and eye gouges on grapplers, we would be happy to have you pay a mat fee of $20 at NWBJJ on 95th and Aurora! We also have several doctors who can help you out when someone breaks your arm for trying stupid **** like that :D

As I said before, please take your trolling somewhere other than my thread. Is their a moderator on KFO anymore!?!?!?

Jake :cool:

See, there you go again ... I was going to pay you for privates to train xingyi.

Anyway, whatever. You know, you keep dissing me. If you diss everybody like that, it's no wonder you only have 4 students. It's surprising you have any.

BTW, Gene has asked repeatedly people who post seminars to ADVERTISE in the MAGAZINE since that's what it's there for. So if anybody is spamming the forum, it's YOU.

Three Harmonies

12-22-2006, 08:25 AM

Gene and I are in personal contact all the time, and he has no issues of me posting here. Thanks for your concern though.
Like I said, excuses are like *******s. If you do not wish to pay for my time (I do not have to teach a thing, it is your time) then tough ****. I have my own training partners, I do not need a keyboard master.
Last time I ask nicely, please take your banter somewhere else.

Jake

lunghushan

12-22-2006, 12:17 PM

Three Harmonies

12-22-2006, 12:54 PM

Hey tough guy, get the **** off my thread would you? For someone who does not like anything I do, you certainly waste a lot of time on me instead of training.

lunghushan

12-22-2006, 12:59 PM

Hey tough guy, get the **** off my thread would you? For someone who does not like anything I do, you certainly waste a lot of time on me instead of training.

I've been taking a break from work and I got bored. I'm sorry to have caused you any inconvenience.

But thanks for at last not insulting me in a response. I will leave you alone now.

MartialDev

12-26-2006, 11:56 PM

YiLiQuan1

12-27-2006, 09:04 AM

You are welcome to participate in the practice group I organize. I extend the same invitation to everyone else here.

I would like everyone who attends to mind their manners and respect their training partners.

Seattle Martial Arts (http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/seattle-martial-arts/)

You need to realize, though, MartialDev, that lunghushan isn't likely to attend anyone's training, no matter how open-ended it may seem. He's been offered plenty of opportunities, but he's found fault with all of them. It's simply best to leave well enough alone... :rolleyes:

lunghushan

12-27-2006, 12:55 PM

You need to realize, though, MartialDev, that lunghushan isn't likely to attend anyone's training, no matter how open-ended it may seem. He's been offered plenty of opportunities, but he's found fault with all of them. It's simply best to leave well enough alone... :rolleyes:

Yeah, thanks for the offer. I said I'd leave the thread alone but you keep hitting on me. But Yiliquan1's right, I've given up on meeting up for partner practice and I'm not going to attend anymore. Too much of other people's stuff I'm not interested in.

When I contacted TH before I had just come off of training with a guy up in Bothell and the problem with that was that he of course wanted to do his stuff too, and it was a pain because between talking and explaining, and practicing his stuff, I got maybe 10 minutes of drills out of a 2 hour meeting.

And he pretty much insisted that I learn his stuff even though I didn't want to.

So when I contacted TH it wasn't about meeting up for partner practice, it was about HIRING him to work on xingyiquan drills and techniques. Not his, but from a past teacher. He didn't want to do that. At the same time I put an ad up on Craigslist for some BBs who would be training dummies, and actually found some, but the problem is they turned out to be clueless to anything but basic punching and kicking, so having to explain them any other techniques was like paying them to give them lessons.

I have actually gone to quite a few people's classes and training around here. And they all insist on things being done their way. They'll say they have an open class or they'll say you can pay them for privates to work on what you want you to work on, but over and over again they'll pressure you to do their techniques and their style.

And many times it gets verbally abusive. As you can see with the insults being passed on around here.

Most of the teachers who claim open training seem to do it just to get new students for their school. Even Yiliquan1, they always claim you can come train with them but then they admit that it will be their training, their drills, etc.

I went to visit some people that I used to train with a long time ago and we were talking about our training and our teacher, and I was telling them about my experiences with people around here in Seattle, and they were saying, "Why are you worrying about it? If they aren't doing what you want to, then just don't go."

So I've given up. Thanks for the offer, though.

Three Harmonies

12-27-2006, 02:05 PM

For the record I said you were more than welcome to come over and spar (I don't have to teach a thing), but you do not want to compensate me for my time. So be it.

BTW:

So who is your teacher?

lunghushan

12-27-2006, 02:20 PM

For the record I said you were more than welcome to come over and spar (I don't have to teach a thing), but you do not want to compensate me for my time. So be it.

BTW:

So who is your teacher?

I'm not taking any lessons right at this moment.

Yeah, I checked back through the emails. You said you only did privates and only your stuff, so I didn't want to do that. The problem with privates is it doesn't allow any opportunity to work on stuff with other people like a class does. I didn't see any sparring invite, though.

YiLiQuan1

12-27-2006, 02:21 PM

So when I contacted TH it wasn't about meeting up for partner practice, it was about HIRING him to work on xingyiquan drills and techniques. Not his, but from a past teacher. He didn't want to do that.

Don't you think it is both a little arrogant of you, and demeaning to him, that you'd even consider this to be a potential reality? Hiring an established instructor to be your personal "training dummy" on material completely unrelated to what said instructor knows how to do?

I can't blame him for not wanting to be "hired" to be your "boy," at your beck and call for whatever training might strike your fancy... :rolleyes:

At the same time I put an ad up on Craigslist for some BBs who would be training dummies, and actually found some, but the problem is they turned out to be clueless to anything but basic punching and kicking, so having to explain them any other techniques was like paying them to give them lessons.

That tells me two things -

1) You aren't looking for a training dummy. You're looking for a classmate. Preferably one from your prior teacher. You want people to do the same techniques you already know/want to practice, but you don't want them to provide you any criticism or correction (that's teaching). You just want them to punch/kick/etc., in ways you're familiar and/or comfortable with.

2) Your techniques can't be all that well refined, all that functional, nor all that practical if you can't make them work, and practice them, against someone from a completely alien background.

I have actually gone to quite a few people's classes and training around here. And they all insist on things being done their way.

You still don't seem to understand that it's their class and their school. How dare they demand that you do what they do in their own school!?!?! That's ridiculous, right? Not hardly. You go to X school, inquire about classes in X style, expect them to want to provide instruction in, and have you practice, X style! It's that easy!

They'll say they have an open class or they'll say you can pay them for privates to work on what you want you to work on, but over and over again they'll pressure you to do their techniques and their style.

If you go to John Jones, expect him to teach you whatever he knows, especially if you're paying him to teach you during a private lesson. What's so hard to understand on this? If you're paying him to provide you a service, he's going to provide that service. But don't be surprised that instructors, who've dedicated a portion of their life to improving their art, aren't keen on being your "dolly" for the day so you can get your workout on... :rolleyes:

Most of the teachers who claim open training seem to do it just to get new students for their school. Even Yiliquan1, they always claim you can come train with them but then they admit that it will be their training, their drills, etc.

No, that's not what I said. I said you should feel free to come down and see if any of our people would want to train with you. Understand, though, that if you come to class and are looking to join the regular class, you'll be learning/practicing/being shown our material, because it's our classtime, and that's when we learn our style. You want to do "open training," meet our folks, see if they want to stay after class (they just might), and since we have the keys to the place, you might be in luck.

Of course, your other reason for staying in Seattle is the distance you'd have to travel. Though, that fades quickly as a valid excuse, given that you're not training with anyone now, and a once a week road trip wouldn't kill you...

I went to visit some people that I used to train with a long time ago and we were talking about our training and our teacher, and I was telling them about my experiences with people around here in Seattle, and they were saying, "Why are you worrying about it? If they aren't doing what you want to, then just don't go."

So I've given up. Thanks for the offer, though.

And along with not going, you should stop griping about a situation you're either unable or unwilling to remedy...

Just put the luggage down and step away... ;)

lunghushan

12-27-2006, 02:28 PM

And along with not going, you should stop griping about a situation you're either unable or unwilling to remedy...

Just put the luggage down and step away... ;)

Actually I'm on hiatus. I was taking care of my Grandma down in California.

Yeah, I'm done talking to all of you. I've had enough. But I wasn't looking for a classmate, just somebody who doesn't mind going 50-50 or somebody to hire as a dummy.

Anyway I found some people down in California to work with, one of whom I used to work with before. Maybe they're a bit more accepting since knew my prior teacher -- I don't know.

YiLiQuan1

12-27-2006, 03:00 PM

Yeah, I'm done talking to all of you. I've had enough. But I wasn't looking for a classmate, just somebody who doesn't mind going 50-50 or somebody to hire as a dummy.

If you want someone who knows what you know, will practice what you want to practice (and what they also want to practice), and won't provide you with instruction, that's a classmate moreso than just a training partner... At least the way I see it, a training partner is all those things and much more.

Anyway I found some people down in California to work with, one of whom I used to work with before. Maybe they're a bit more accepting since knew my prior teacher -- I don't know.

You won't drive from Seattle to Tacoma, but you'll fly to California to train with people who fit exactly what I've described above? Whatever, man. Best of luck with that...

YiLiQuan1

12-27-2006, 03:07 PM

FOR THE RECORD

I've invited folks to come to our club to train with us in Yiliquan.

I've invited folks to come to our club to provide instruction for our club.

I've invited folks to come to our club, bringing their students, for cooperative training ("round robin," their stuff, our stuff, rinse and repeat).

I've invited folks from any and all styles to participate in "Throwdowns" hosted by our group (where some instruction is provided as well as full opportunity for people to just pair up and spar, roll, or otherwise test their technique).

I've left the door open for any and all comers. I'm no longer the head instructor, but I know that the current head instructor is open to such things as well.

So, for the record, anybody that wants to come down and do some training with the Yiliquan folks, let us know what you're into, what you're looking for, and we'll work out some details.

Those that aren't interested need not apply... ;)

BTW Jake, I'd like to chat with you offline about coming down and doing some Sun style work with us. I have to talk with our head instructor, though. I'll email you later.

And lunghushan, what style is it that you are working on, and under what instructor did you learn it?

lunghushan

12-27-2006, 03:18 PM

If you want someone who knows what you know, will practice what you want to practice (and what they also want to practice), and won't provide you with instruction, that's a classmate moreso than just a training partner... At least the way I see it, a training partner is all those things and much more.

You won't drive from Seattle to Tacoma, but you'll fly to California to train with people who fit exactly what I've described above? Whatever, man. Best of luck with that...

If I'm already in California I'll train with people who will be open to training and not try to impose their style upon me. I've found none of those in Seattle, not one.

YiLiQuan1

12-27-2006, 03:53 PM

If I'm already in California I'll train with people who will be open to training and not try to impose their style upon me. I've found none of those in Seattle, not one.

So you've relocated, then?

As for what style I don't do any particular style.

But you continually reference your teacher and his method of instruction. What style did he teach you?

I don't think styles are particularly distinct. If you break down a form like Sanchin for example it has a lot in common with xingyi, especially santi and pi quan. If you break down throws in Chinese styles you'll find a lot in common with Judo.

That goes without saying, almost. I can't say that I see the corrolation between Xingyi and Sanchin kata, but whatever. I guess I'm the same - I do Army Combatives, judo, jujutsu, Yiliquan, arnis, etc. I'm still me in the end, not the Yili me or the Combatives me.

People get stuck on form rather than technique and then usually just fight with kickboxing.

Old Army adage - "you fight how you train."

Three Harmonies

12-27-2006, 05:19 PM

lunghushan

12-27-2006, 05:22 PM

My last post on page 2 mentioned I do not have to teach a thing.

I too am tired of your BS bro. Seattle is such a ****hole according to you, yet I know of at least 3 school off the top of my head (and i have been here under 6 months) where you can go and spar at an open mat. But I guess places like Ivan Salivery's school and what not probably have Hep C on their mats right? :rolleyes:

I have no problem with you not liking my approach, nor me for that matter. So would you please quit wasting everyones time here and take your trolling someplace else? It is painfully obvious by your 800 some posts over the last 4 months that you type more than you punch, so perhaps you should stick with what you are good at.

Matt
Contact me anytime bro and we can discuss whatever. I will get down to meet you all sometime soon I am sure!

Cheers
Jake :)

Maybe if you stopped dissing me I would stop responding. But sparring is not training, IMHO. Sparring is just sparring. I can go any place and do that. I even told you about Seattle Kyokushin's open sparring in my initial mails.

Anyways, I'll stop responding even if you keep dissing me. I have nothing but dis-gust for you now anyways.

Yeah, go down and train with Yili. You two deserve each other.

YiLiQuan1

12-27-2006, 10:17 PM

Maybe if you stopped dissing me I would stop responding.

No, you're quite active all over this website, actually, saying the same things in many, many threads - you can't find anyone to train with, you don't want to learn anything new, etc.

But sparring is not training, IMHO. Sparring is just sparring. I can go any place and do that. I even told you about Seattle Kyokushin's open sparring in my initial mails.

So what the hell are you looking for, then??? You say "train." You say you want to train on the things you've already learned. Like what?

Yeah, go down and train with Yili. You two deserve each other.

Listen here, pally... :mad: I've been patient. I've offered for you to come down and do whatever you like with us more than once. I've given honest criticism, and asked questions that were pertinent. But I can't recall coming right out and being directly, openly insulting.

You've made excuse after excuse not to train with this person or that person. If it isn't their monopolization of training time, their attempting to teach you things, the distance you have to travel, or your fear of catching some fatal disease, you're still able to find fault with, and an excuse not to take advantage of, any offer made to you.

You're a whiner to the Nth degree. If you really, really wanted to train half as badly as you'd have people believe, you would have either found someone/somewhere locally to train (and sucked up your bellyaching excuses), or you would have moved back to California where people are more tolerant, touchy-feely, lovey-dovey, and will cater to your paranoia and egotism.

There are plenty of hippy wannabes in Seattle, many/most of which would rather practice pretty forms in the park than cross arms or actually test what they do. It seems, though, that in Jake and me you've found two folks that aren't going to sit idly by and let your skewed world-view soak into us and others around us.

Get over the whole deal, dude. :cool: I doubt anyone else would continue being as hospitable as I've been, and as I'm continuing to be. Offer's still open if you want to come down and see what real training can be like. I'll gladly practice whatever you want, just to prove to you that you don't know squat about what you've said regarding me, my club, or my fellow practitioners. Otherwise, do what you've been saying you're going to do and stop posting your tirade of excuses. I, for one, am getting pretty tired of reading them. :rolleyes:

lunghushan

12-29-2006, 01:45 PM

Anyways, you know, I apologize to TH for posting on this thread. I think you should probably remove it and post another one with the ad for the seminar. I won't post any more crap on it. A lot of people will probably get a lot out of the seminar.

Three Harmonies

12-29-2006, 03:31 PM

Thank you. And if you choose to change your mind, you are still more than welcome at any event I do. Be safe in the New Year.

FYI-Everyone:
Tim's new DVD is available. Enjoy http://www.shenwu.com/newProduct.htm
This is some of what he will be covering at the seminar in Feb!

Cheers
Jake :)

Three Harmonies

01-07-2007, 02:59 PM

Just got my copy (Thanks Tim!), and watched it right away. The DVD exceeded my expectations, which were already pretty high.
I have covered all this material with Tim over the last couple years, and that is exactly what this DVD reminded me of, my personal notes from lessons with Tim. Clear concise instruction that is easy to apply, "natural" if you will. Well organized and taught Tim! Principles are emphasized, with leverage being the dominant application throughout. All the while Tim does this on guys that outweigh him by at least 80#'s! For those familiar with Tim Cartmell's prior projects on Chin Na and Effortless Combat Throws, you will not be disappointed with the concise, applicable lessons found on this new DVD. The only thing that has changed is the calrity and sharpness of digital photgraphy and better production have made this DVD much, much nicer and easier to view.
I surely liked the picture in picture for some close ups where they were needed. The PIP coupled with bullet points highlighting the principles and theory behind what we just learned, were absolutely great! **** good idea.
Production quality was high, I really felt that overall it is a great job. Well done, and bravo to all involved; Tim, Shane, Amber, Gabe, Meynard, and anyone else I left out.
It is my very honest opinion, and a very biased one as well, that two DVD's have set a new standard for all other martial DVD projects forth coming. The "Stand Up Grappling" DVD by Tim Cartmell at www.shenwu.com, and the soon to be released DVD of "The First North American Mantis Conference" www.mantisquarterly.com are phenomenal in their production quality, ease of navigation, and quality of content.
Great job guys!
Cheers
Jake:)