Reasons for doing Kung Fu and the effect that Kung Fu has on a person.

[The Xia]

First of all, Kung Fu gives you fighting ability. You also reap health benefits and are delving into a deep art with a rich heritage. Whatever style you practice, you make it your own. As Bruce Lee said, you learn to "honestly express yourself". You are placed in control of yourself. Kung Fu is also fun and can be practiced into old age. Achieving a high level of skill requires an enormous amount of self-discipline. Training hard changes character. Achieving a high level of skill in Kung Fu gives someone insight. Combine all of these aspects with Mo Duk and you have an improved person.

[The Xia]

I'd also say that the same can be said for other TMA.

[SPJ]

Reasons to practice CMA or any MA;

b/c it is fun but also hard work or sheer labor, fine tuning your body every step/posture of the way.

The effect;

actually, there are a lot of study and trials and errors, too. it is also a lot of brain work. analysis etc.

In Ba Gua, we started with 8 big stances. then 8 basic palms.

then 8 big palms/mother palms and then 8x8= 64 palms.

why and how you do each stance----

drill them over and over every day.

--

why? that is how you get to be skillful or proficient.

--

:)

[red5angel]

I went through I think all the reasons

1 - That starry eyed bruce lee worship

2 - because I wanted to kick some ass

3 - because I didn't want to get my ass kicked

4 - so I could beat Masterkillers quadrapalegic mom into a stupor more deep then her typical drunk.

[SPJ]

"A punch is just a punch"

"A punch is not just a punch."

"A punch is just a punch"

When you first started out, you see a punch just a punch.

after a while, you started to know that, there are requirements for the rest of the body, every thing has to be there for the punch to work. the area for strike has to be opened, etc.

after some more while, you started to know that, a punch is simply a punch, the rest just come with it.

--

:)

[SPJ]

What I meant to say;

in the beginning, it is fun to practice and we think we know what we are doing, punch and kick away.

in the middle, we started to notice, there are more to every posture, there is breathing, body alignment, shifting weight, jin generation, stepping, timing, ways to open the opponent's arm, retract/retreating/exit strategy, tactics, ---

in the end, you just flow or move as you breathe without thinking all the other stuffs, --- everything is just part of you.

--

:)

[The Xia]

So what reasons do people here do martial arts?

[YouKnowWho]

So what reasons do people here do martial arts?
To learn some "deadly" skill in order to handle some MMA guys. Whoops! Sorry! MMA was not even born yet back in my training time.

[Fuzzly]

I started because I needed some physical activity. I was always interested in MA, and my best friend had been doing them for a couple months. He invited me to a class, and I've been hooked ever since.

Not only am I am the best shape I've ever been in (not saying much, lol. Also, discount my knee surgery hehe), but I find that I have a lot more self confidence than I did before I started.

[BlueTravesty]

I love CMA, but I think the reasons I love it could very well apply to any martial art style.

Because the rush of endorphines after a sweat-drenched workout is quite addictive.
Because the pain is just the Muscles' way of saying "I'm sorry, I'll do better next time!"
Because when my abs are sore, my legs feel like jelly and my arms are like lead weights, it makes landing that shot to the head all the more satisfying.
Because I can tap into the same work ethic I use to get me through on the job, and apply it to Martial Arts.
Because I can tap into the same worth ethic I reap from Martial Arts training and apply it on the job.
Because the class I took (and hope to still meet with) is a great bunch, without the Ego problems I've experienced in other circles.
Because when I push through a horse stance (possibly the second most painful experience I've ever had.) and I finally stand back up, I feel like I'm on top of the world.
Because I want to learn something that I can practice and have fun with, and learn a little about fighting too. (Oh wait I forgot, it's kung fu- all we do is forms :rolleyes:)
Because I'm a nerd and I like weapons

That's about it there. In a nutshell, I do it because I love it, and there's no excercise activity I'd rather do. Sure, I do cardio, calisthenics, etc. (and probably weightlifting soon, since I'll be using my newfound spare cash to join a gym.) But that's all the name of improving my kung fu. Oh yeah, and that "health" stuff I keep hearing about too. Spiritual reasons have little to do with it. There are better places for that.

[qiphlow]

because taiji is freakin' awesome, thats why!

[Sifu Darkfist]

i do not know any different, i cannot remember a time before doing Kung fu except to say it was painful to my little boy body.

[Wood Dragon]

To learn to fight.

[Anthony]

"Kung Fu gives you fighting ability"

Not necessarily. All the training in the world doesn't guarantee that you will become a great or even decent fighter.

"You also reap health benefits"

You mean like just eating healthy or riding a bicycle or going to the gym? Alot of other things give you health benefits. Any physical activity can either benefit or hurt your health.

"......delving into a deep art with a rich heritage"

Sheet metal workers are also delving into a deep art with a rich heritage. It goes all the way back to blacksmithing. You must mean the rich heritage of a half made up history.

"Kung Fu is also fun and can be practiced into old age"

Just like almost any other hobby. The benefits of Martial Arts also lessen with age. I don't know any Kung fu "masters" that have been any better off into their old age than anyone else.

"Training hard changes character"

Or, you can just skip all the hard training and simply change your character if that's your goal. Why do you need training....it's silly. You want to be a better person? So.....just be a better person.....duh. Kicking and punching and doing push-ups is somehow supposed to make you not cheat or steal or kill someone? If hard work (as you imply) makes you a better person there would be alot more saints in America. Where are all these great people in Martial Arts that you speak of. Can you name any of these better people. Chan Tai San is a known master on this forum......let me know what you think of his morality (according to what you and me read here). I can name a hell of alot of s.cum bags in TCMA off the top of my head. I have to try hard to think of any good people.

"Achieving a high level of skill in Kung Fu gives someone insight"

I can tell by all the silly arguing and c.rap talking in the TCMA community.

Xia.....do you get paid to start threads on this forum or somehting? Just curious.

[Royal Dragon]

Sheet metal workers are also delving into a deep art with a rich heritage. It goes all the way back to blacksmithing. You must mean the rich heritage of a half made up history.

Reply]
Most metal workers haven't the foggiest clue abut the history of thier craft prior to their basic introduction ot it.

In my case, metal working probably didn't exist prior to the 1980's, when I started learning to fix dents on cars.

[SifuAbel]

An answer to anthony.

On all points: So what?!?!? Did you take a "lets ***** at CMA" pill today?

Go find another hobby.

[Fu-Pow]

1. Health (including self-defense;) )/Fitness
3. Recreation
3. Personal Growth

[Royal Dragon]

Honestly, I have been doing this so long that I just don't feel like myself if I don't get a certian amount of practice in every week. I have 3 core workouts, one is primarily conditioning (Weights, various pull ups, pushups situps etc..), another is mostly stance work, and the last one is body mechanics work in the form of Qi Gong, my core form, and drilling basics like kicks, punches, footwork etc...

Each session has variyng degrees of flexibility work as well and I reward myslf with twoman work if I have partners avaliable.

[AJM]

"A punch is just a punch"

"A punch is not just a punch."

"A punch is just a punch"

When you first started out, you see a punch just a punch.

after a while, you started to know that, there are requirements for the rest of the body, every thing has to be there for the punch to work. the area for strike has to be opened, etc.

after some more while, you started to know that, a punch is simply a punch, the rest just come with it.
--

:)

Now I've got "As Time Goes By" stuck in my head. Thanks dude.

[The Xia]

"Kung Fu gives you fighting ability"

Not necessarily. All the training in the world doesn't guarantee that you will become a great or even decent fighter.
People usually take up a martial art for sport fighting or self defense. Kung Fu can provide that. What's your point?

"You also reap health benefits"

You mean like just eating healthy or riding a bicycle or going to the gym? Alot of other things give you health benefits. Any physical activity can either benefit or hurt your health.
Kung Fu does have health benefits. What's your point?

"......delving into a deep art with a rich heritage"

Sheet metal workers are also delving into a deep art with a rich heritage. It goes all the way back to blacksmithing. You must mean the rich heritage of a half made up history.
Kung Fu does have a history. Sure, there is folklore and legend to accompany it, but so what?

"Kung Fu is also fun and can be practiced into old age"

Just like almost any other hobby. The benefits of Martial Arts also lessen with age. I don't know any Kung fu "masters" that have been any better off into their old age than anyone else.
Many Kung Fu masters have sharp minds and bodies well into old age. Many of them have also enjoyed long lives. Hung Ju Sing is an example of that. He died at 96 years old.

"Training hard changes character"

Or, you can just skip all the hard training and simply change your character if that's your goal. Why do you need training....it's silly. You want to be a better person? So.....just be a better person.....duh. Kicking and punching and doing push-ups is somehow supposed to make you not cheat or steal or kill someone? If hard work (as you imply) makes you a better person there would be alot more saints in America. Where are all these great people in Martial Arts that you speak of. Can you name any of these better people. Chan Tai San is a known master on this forum......let me know what you think of his morality (according to what you and me read here). I can name a hell of alot of s.cum bags in TCMA off the top of my head. I have to try hard to think of any good people.
"Achieving a high level of skill in Kung Fu gives someone insight"

I can tell by all the silly arguing and c.rap talking in the TCMA community.
It gives you insight into how the body works. It also puts things in perspective. Getting good at a martial art requires a lot of self discipline. The truth is that getting good at martial arts does change character.

Xia.....do you get paid to start threads on this forum or somehting? Just curious.
If I got paid to start threads, there'd be a heck of a lot more from me. I’ll take that as a compliment. I didn’t know that my threads are so good they warrant payment. Maybe you should recommend to Gene that KFM puts me on their payroll! :p
I can ask a similar question of you. Does someone pay you to trash Kung Fu? ;) :D

[firepalm]

Recently in China there has been a move to recognize that Chinese Martial Arts has what can be referred to as three pillars (as seen in publications such as Traditional Chinese Kung Fu, Zhong Hua Wushu, etc...). Those three pillars are tradition, sport and health. Tradition encompasses the traditional Chinese Martial Arts and acknowledges that it is a traditional science that revolves around the development of fighting skills, strategies & attributes for self defense. This category also involves to varying degrees preservation of traditional folk arts & practices. The 2nd pillar is the sport category, and whether persons here care to acknowledge it or not, it includes both Modern Wushu & San Shou / Da. Both Modern Wushu & San Shou / Da have been supported heavily by the government and now both sports are practiced widely around the world. The third pillar is health and primarily refers to Taiji Quan and Internal Arts practices such as Qigong. Naturally the first two pillars provide health benefits but as most will acknowledge Taiji & Qigong is practiced by most for the health benefits (although it should be acknowledged that many do arts such as Taiji as for the martial benefit). In general this makes sense, although in some areas perhaps a little overly generalized.

Now many persons will obviously become involved with any of these three CMA pillars for a variety of their own reasons but generally for the reasons outlined previously. Some may also unknowingly get involved with something like Modern Wushu thinking it a self defense art and potentially become disenchanted with CMA as a result. Also a lot of younger persons (particularly of Asian descent) will also get involved with CMA as a result of their parents. How and why people become involved may not always be the same reasons that keeps them involved or eventually is why they choose to leave.

Simply put if the individual persons experience in CMA is a positive one they will usually stay involved sometimes of course other factors such as work, studies, families, finances, etc... may be the reason one leaves. However if the person has a negative experience they will naturally opt to leave. For a lot of persons a positive experience may not necessarily mean they, in the case of pillar one (tradition), have become a top notch fighter, they may in fact enjoy the cultural aspects of the style. Or possibly the social environment, let's face it a lot of schools are just as much social clubs as they are martial club or even more so.

One of the beauties, and saving graces, I have always maintained about CMA is it's diversity. Truthfully only a blind person will state things like 'Kung Fu is just about fighting and nothing else!'. Self defense / fighting sciences, sport, peformance art, health, spiritual practices, strong cultural practices (many religious in origin like Buddhist, Taoist), medicine, lion dance, crossovers into other cultural arts like Opera & acrobatics, etc.... These many varied aspects & reasons are why many will get involved and perhaps stay involved in CMA. By acknowledging and embracing this I believe the CMA community can grow, flourish and sustain itself.

What is sometimes lacking, in my personal opinion, on the part of many traditional CMA instructors is the questioning of their own motivations for teaching their brand(s) of CMA. Years ago in Taiwan I had an interesting conversation with a Buddhist Priest, in which he stated to me that as humans we should always look inwards to our reasons and motivations for the things that we do in the course of our lives. This had a profound effect on my own person and personal practice of CMA. What I believe a lot of CMA instructors do not consciously question of themselves as to why they teach? And further are they teaching to provide something to their pupils or they doing it simply to preserve a system or further their own name (very common in Chinatown club scenarios)? Herein I believe lies a fundamental problem with traditional CMA, that is not acknowledged and often leads to the common belief that Kung Fu people can't fight. Traditional CMA has a lot of sound principles and can develop some profound skills but too often instructors are more concerned about preserving a traditional system through things like teaching of many many forms & weapons. Sometimes also too these instructors may not be adequately trained or experienced and neglect things like application training, sparring, conditioning, speed training, etc... And as most should now in this day and age you don't have to necessarily train endless forms to become a good fighter. Traditional instructors should question themselves, their motivations and what they wish to provide to their pupils and should be something more then being able to carry forward a collection of forms without any real substance or profound skill (especially in the area of self defense / fighting if that is what they profess to be teaching).

My two cents! ;)

[qiphlow]

well said, firepalm.

[Royal Dragon]

Many Kung Fu masters have sharp minds and bodies well into old age. Many of them have also enjoyed long lives. Hung Ju Sing is an example of that. He died at 96 years old.

Reply]
My Grandmother lived to be 96, and did nothing but take care of the house, and her two sons that never moved out...

[David Jamieson]

Well, nothing "gives" you fighting ability. That, you either got or don't got. Training is something you can do a lot or do moderately and so on.

I do kungfu because I enjoy it. That is all.

[SPJ]

Traditional CMA has a lot of sound principles and can develop some profound skills but too often instructors are more concerned about preserving a traditional system through things like teaching of many many forms & weapons.


there is an old saying that the teacher guides you to the door and how you practice and use the stuff is entirely up to you.

Shi Fu Ling Jin Men. Xio Xing Zhai Ge Ren.

For example, Cheng Ting Hua were only shown one or three palm sets. He took the Ba Gua Zhang with Shuai Jiao. Cheng had many students.

It is the quality and not so much quantity.

If you are "good" at a few moves is always better than being not so good in a million forms.

Horse stance for 6 months. Single punch with horse stance for another six months.

I guess people will quit the school. or they like to collect forms and see their money/tuition worth?

--

:D

[BlueTravesty]

there is an old saying that the teacher guides you to the door and how you practice and use the stuff is entirely up to you.

Shi Fu Ling Jin Men. Xio Xing Zhai Ge Ren.

For example, Cheng Ting Hua were only shown one or three palm sets. He took the Ba Gua Zhang with Shuai Jiao. Cheng had many students.

It is the quality and not so much quantity.

If you are "good" at a few moves is always better than being not so good in a million forms.

Horse stance for 6 months. Single punch with horse stance for another six months.

I guess people will quit the school. or they like to collect forms and see their money/tuition worth?

--

:D

well said :-D

[Wood Dragon]

Question (and it isnt a rhetorical device, I'm simply ignorant in this regard):

Why do some CMA's have 10+ Forms? Hung Gar makes do with, what, 5 forms?

I know why Shotokan and the other post-1900 Karate systems have so many (the JKA syllabus currently mandates 27..., Gojuryu has 10). It's due to the modern styles being synthesized from several antique Okinawan systems (themselves influenced/derived from CMA). In effect, modern Karate systems are a kluge, the JKA in particular being the product of a committee (and Nakayama, who had, due to his 30-year reign as Head Instructor, more influence on Shotokan than Funakoshi).

Essentially, Funakoshi and his contemporaries did not wish to lose the classical character of the Okinawan Te-systems. Secondly, it allowed a massive syllabus for truly life-long learning to be created. Thirdly, it subsidized the adaptation of the Judo kyu/dan ranking system for Karate (allowing kyu ranks to be paired with kata).

CMAs, evolving more holistically, did not (except for, perhaps, contemporary Wushu) develop in that environment (as a scholastic endevour and product of an artificial synthesis), so why did some sytems end up today with beaucoup Forms?

In the JKA, shodan candidates are tested for their ability to perform all the kata learned as they ascended through the kyu ranks. However, day-to-day, no one expects any one practitioner to master all the kata, or even remember them all without a train-up period (such as before a tournament or rank exam).
For instance, I know 10 of them to an extent that I would say I've mastered them. The others I am able to perform given a few minutes to think about them, and probably making a couple of missteps. I certainly couldnt get anything from them, and wouldnt try to teach them.

I understand that Instructors should know them to enable them to be taught, but why have so much more than one person could actually master (as in, become familiar enough with the material to understand its application)?

Having asked that, I'll state for the record that my ignorance of CMA is without peer on this board. The "MMA ROOLZ, SHAOLIN SUX3RZ" idiots probably know more than I do.

[YouKnowWho]

Why do some CMA's have 10+ Forms? Hung Gar makes do with, what, 5 forms?
How long can you keep your students for only 5 forms? If you have 20 forms then you can keep your students 4 times longer and get more money from them.

Simple question with simple answer.

[Ravenshaw]

Actually, the Hung Gar hand sets are significantly longer than, say, Bak Siu Lum hand sets, so the number of movements practiced isn't as far off. Also, besides the 4 Pillars, Hung Gar schools often teach other minor hand sets (Lau Gar Kuen, Moi Fah Kuen, etc.). Then, of course, there are weapon and two-person sets.

There are no rules for how many sets a style needs. The number of forms a lineage develops depends on a lot of factors. As we go from generation to generation, we actually lose some of the minor traditional forms and other schools adopt a more modern practice that de-emphasizes forms and therefore they don't teach as many.