Does anyone recognize these forms?

[Royal Dragon]

Does anyone recognize these forms?

The first one is what Oom Yung Doe calls Tai Chi, and the third is something they call "Pargey". The last form is thier "Tiger" form called Ho Bar Tu.

We know Oom Yung Doe's founder, John C Kim had some sort of early martial training, and some suspect that it may have been through Bok Nam Park's teacher, or lineage. we are thinking there has to be a legit core source that Kim invented from and based his system on. I am hopeing that someone may recognize a shadow of whatever legit form, or style this stuff was derived from.

I will be posting more, as time and sources permit.

Any help, or comments on the performances would be welcomed.

Thanks!

RD

Tai Chi Chung
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bm8V3R9rrY8&mode=related&search=

Tai Chi Chung
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6V-AXHVE94&mode=related&search=

Pargey
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFXu5oakHBw&mode=related&search=

Ho Bartu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7L6I-2MHb-k

[qiphlow]

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

[cjurakpt]

yamahama...

[B-Rad]

We know Oom Yung Doe's founder, John C Kim had some sort of early martial training, and some suspect that it may have been through Bok Nam Park's teacher, or lineage. we are thinking there has to be a legit core source that Kim invented from and based his system on. I am hopeing that someone may recognize a shadow of whatever legit form, or style this stuff was derived from.
I would have to say there's nothing legit about the forms themselves. Looks completely made up to me, and just flat out bad. It can see that they might have learned some legit stretching... and seen some random kungfu related photograph at some point :p

In the first taiji clip I see a little tae kwon do, drunken, southern style... not so much exact moves but more like what someone who'd seen a few movies of kungfu might make up. Sit a bad tae kwon do guy in a room, give him a crash course in kungfu entirely from clips of a few random movies... then tell him to create a kungfu form, and that's probably what you'd end up with :p

The second taiji clip looks like it was inspired by Yang style demo, but with no knowledge of taiji and no desire to try and imitate a real taiji person.

Same deal with the second two... vaguely kungfu inspired... but with no real content.

[SPJ]

I am sweeping the snow on my roof and in front of my door only.

:)

[Donkwoon]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! I can't stand to look at another CMQ/CMD/OYD with out making some kind of comment.

First I don't know what has happened exactly with that crazy cult but they were better off IMHO when they were relativly unknown and still more intact. I recognize the forms that the guys on those vids are "trying" to do and I have to say without reservation that they are doing them **** poor. I'm not talking by TMA standards I'm comming from my memory of 3 years of learning that stuff. The guys in those vids are doing the forms so poorly that it's painfull to watch. I bet those "black belts" in that demo paid a hefty sum to get that rank and watching them butcher tai chi like that is really messed up. It's an infamnia.

Ok, I don't know anything about the true origin of those forms but I can tell you from memory a little about what I was taught back in the day. (This was just told to me by a high instructor and so I really have no idea of it's veracity)

First off the CMQ method of gaining knowledge was to send moles into other schools for many years at a time. The plant student would move up the ranks and learn as much as possible and then present his knowledge to the higher CMQ ranks. When you think about the huge mix that they try to teach, this may have been true at one time.

Forget about the Tai Chi that they're trying to do in the news room. I didn't do that then and watching them makes me glad that I didn't.

The Tai chi that the guy is doing in the woods looks like a version of a form that I had learned a little of called Koo-Po (I think). When I started real TCMA I showed it to my sifu and he didn't recognize or like it.

The Tiger form, Ho-Barto and the "Tai Chi" form Koo-Po are considered to come from a body of forms called "Main Hyung" (spelling?). A Main Hyung form is basicaly a very long set that contains the complete body of knowledge that CMQ holds for the particuler style that it represents. For instance, Ho-Barto is considered to be the repository for all of the CMQ knowledge on tiger style fighting. (or something like that). I had begining portions of about 5 Main Hyung forms but not very far into either one. Those forms are considered to be extreamly long. Many taking 2-4 hours to perform. There are 300 something of those forms and only the master knows them all. My instructor was a 4th degree and he didn't even have half of one. I will say this; I watched him perform what he knew of one and it lasted longer then any kung-fu form that I've ever seen.

Pargay: (or how ever you say it) I had 1 and 2 and about half of 3. I don't remember any bean bags. What ever version those guys are doing sucks so bad that my instructor would have sent them into the basement for stance work. If I stuck my ass out like that I would've got it slapped with the flat of a broad sword.
Someone here said that form was related to Bagwa. I have no idea.
I understood the sets as being a basic stance routine. kinda like 8 basic stances but only more complex. We would hold each position for 100 seconds counted out laud. I will say this; When the Sholin Monks came to the Boston area I demonstrated part 2 for them and they liked it. They even picked me to demonstrate the proper stances for the seminar form that we learned.

Ah, memorys...those were some screwed up days back then. Thanks for bringing them up.

[Royal Dragon]

Yeah, I showed Shi Yan Ming Pargey, and he said it was like morning exercises. He seemed to recognise it vaugely.

There are some Bagua guys on empty flower that recognise it as being a part of Lu Shui Tien's Bagua lineage, so it looks like we were able to trace that one pretty quick. That helps confirm my theory that Kim was part of Lu Shui Tein's Bagua himself.

The current Grandmaster of that line is Bok, Nam Park.

When we get them up, I will be linking to thier form called "Tang Nan" to see if anyone recognises it.

Oh btwthe 3-4 hour long forms never existed, that was made up as a tease to get you to pay more. I know a giuy who lived with Kim, even he never had that much more than the guys teaching in the schools.

[Mano Mano]

Don’t know about the other forms but the Ho Bartu form looks as if they’re ripping off pak mei or possibly xng-I & mantis.

[Royal Dragon]

Kim seems to have a set form Lu Shui Tien's Kung Fu system. I know he taught Mantis.

Ok, I got some Tang Nan and another one to show. Unfortunety, we don't seem to have the first 7 moves of it. I know there is a video fo the whole thing out there, so we are trying to get a copy of it.

Does anyone recognise this set?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0mad3ngDHw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPlgD8zwST4

This next form is called Tae guk chung

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh60UVWeXgM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-jxl8FTDws

And tae guk chung #2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_nkeDaJjls

[lunghushan]

It's kindof sad that people paid so much of their lives to learn this stuff.

Then again, people do meth too and all sorts of destructive things, so I guess this is nothing to cry over.