Shaving throw

[LittleGhost]

Hello,
I have this problem with Shaving throw...Every time I actually do it, my traning partner manages to grab a hold of my neck with his arm. By doing so, instead of going down nice and hard :), he lands quite softly on his side, sometimes even dragging me to the ground with him.
Am I doing something wrong? Maybe wrong entry/wrong posture? Is there a way to prevent the neck grab?
Thanks.

[laugarkuen]

Please could you describe the "shaving throw"

[MasterKiller]

Please could you describe the "shaving throw

Lift opponent, raise your knee and use your leg to "shave" their legs out from under them.

[Pork Chop]

If you fail your saving throw does that mean the red mage lands his spell of infinite suktitude?

[Knifefighter]

Hello,
I have this problem with Shaving throw...Every time I actually do it, my traning partner manages to grab a hold of my neck with his arm. By doing so, instead of going down nice and hard :), he lands quite softly on his side, sometimes even dragging me to the ground with him.
Am I doing something wrong? Maybe wrong entry/wrong posture? Is there a way to prevent the neck grab?
Thanks.
It's much easier for the person being thrown to hold on and take you to the ground than it will be for you to throw him without going down with him. The fact is when you throw someone for real, you will more than likely go down to the ground with him... although the people who "have throws in their system", but don't actually train them will tell you otherwise (just like they will tell you you can choose whether or not to make your opponent land on his head).

That being said, if you get a really good setup, you can occasionally land a throw without going to the ground with your opponent. If that is your goal, working your setups can help you there. Just don't expect it to happen very often, especially if your opponent has half a clue and wants to take you down with him.

[Pork Chop]

*If you fail your saving throw does that mean the red mage lands his spell of infinite suktitude?*

I think it may depend on his THAC0. (as i adjust my nerd glasses)

But in 3rd edition, they don't use THAC0 anymore. ;) :p

[BruceSteveRoy]

wow i actually deleted that comment bc i thought it was way too obscure for anyone on this board. sorry havent gamed since i was like 12. not up on the d20 edition. ****. haha.

[BruceSteveRoy]

you can't say d0rk?

[Ravenshaw]

The fact is when you throw someone for real, you will more than likely go down to the ground with him...

Yeah... this happens a lot :( Mostly with the shaving throw and double-legs for me.

Though one of my san shou teammates is about a foot shorter than I am (I'm 6'3, he's 5'4) and 70 lbs. lighter, so if I try to throw him, he sometimes wraps his arms and legs around me and tries some BJJ... only I'm still standing. With him clinging to me like a mountaineer :p

I then proceed to run him into the nearest wall. :cool:

[LittleGhost]

Please could you describe the "shaving throw"

You enter under his left armpit, facing the same direction. You then hug his waist with your right arm, lift him up a bit, push his chest to your right with your left arm, and "shave" both his legs from under him with your right leg to the left(in a manner similar to inside crescent kick).

[LittleGhost]

Yeah... this happens a lot :( Mostly with the shaving throw and double-legs for me.


I see....:(

KnifeFighter: What are some of the good setups for shaving throw?

[Water Dragon]

Shaving is basically Ko Soto Gake. You're problem is probably in the set up. You should not be going down with the other guy if your set up is correct. Here's a vid, are you unbalancing him correctly?

http://www.judoinfo.com/video/gokyo/KoSotoGake.wmv

[syn]

Unless he's got his arm sort of wrapped in a full circle around your neck, you could probably spin out of his grip.

[Water Dragon]

YouKnowWho, I thought you'd get a kick outta this. We've been using the Shi Sheng Tai Po as a cool down in Judo lately. Sensei is 60, and really likes the set.

[MonkeyKingUSA]

Littleghost,
That was one of my favorite counter throws in jujutsu. Though I always used it as a means of taking the opponent to the ground to pin or choke him out. I didn't see any point in just tossing him on the ground. Once contact is lost, control is lost. Though I was always focused on self-defense rather than tourneys. So in a tournament context your question is of course a valid one.

[Royal Dragon]

LOL!! Years ago, I was arguing with the board about the validity of this very technique following a throw. The consensus was that I'm nutts, I've never been in a real fight, and it could never be used!

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/8779/kneedown1wi7.th.jpg

[lunghushan]

For the SC clip, IMHO they're putting much too much emphasis on sweeping the leg, and too little emphasis on the lifting.

If you lift them right, a quick unbalance, then it's not so much a leg sweep as just move the leg about 2 inches so when they land they fall.

[Knifefighter]

LOL!! Years ago, I was arguing with the board about the validity of this very technique following a throw. The consensus was that I'm nutts, I've never been in a real fight, and it could never be used!

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/8779/kneedown1wi7.th.jpg

I’m guessing there weren’t any BJJ guys posting on the board then, considering it is a standard BJJ technique.

[Knifefighter]

This move is used to counter a head lock. Your opponent spin very fast and try to lock your head. You then spin with him and then sweep his legs off the ground. If your opponent is not very heavy then you can lift him up and throw him over your head or drop him right in front of you. This way you don't even need to sweep his legs. If your opponet is heavy then pick him up may not be to your advantage and sweep his legs may be easier.
Interesting how when the guys are being taken down for real, they figure out not to land with the elbow like you showed them.

[Water Dragon]

Interesting how when the guys are being taken down for real, they figure out not to land with the elbow like you showed them.

Interesting how we don't really slap when we're being thrown for real in Judo. Also pretty interesting that when you get past the basics, the way I was shown to fall in Judo and the way I was shown to fall in SC is essentially the same.

But then again, some people just like to argue.

[Water Dragon]

I’m guessing there weren’t any BJJ guys posting on the board then, considering it is a standard BJJ technique.

Naw, it's different than knee on belly. It's not something you really see in BJJ.

[Knifefighter]

Naw, it's different than knee on belly. It's not something you really see in BJJ.
Maybe because when BJJ guys land, they don't roll on their sides and cover their heads.

[Water Dragon]

Maybe because in Judo (where BJJ comes from) the idea is to throw the guy on their back for Ippon. Perhaps if Judo focused on throws that actually put people on their sides, the break falling would have evolved slightly differently.

You're trying to put an orange in the apple bowl and then complain that it ain't red, Bro.

[Knifefighter]

Interesting how we don't really slap when we're being thrown for real in Judo. Also pretty interesting that when you get past the basics, the way I was shown to fall in Judo and the way I was shown to fall in SC is essentially the same.
Slapping is done in practice when you are not working to counter your opponent's throw.

LOL @ judo being taught the same as SC. Not if you guys are being taught to put your hands over your heads when you land.


Maybe because in Judo (where BJJ comes from) the idea is to throw the guy on their back for Ippon. Perhaps if Judo focused on throws that actually put people on their sides, the break falling would have evolved slightly differently.

You're trying to put an orange in the apple bowl and then complain that it ain't red, Bro.
Oh, I see. Now the kung fu guys are claiming that the goal of SC throws is to put people on their sides. Just a little while ago it was on their heads.

Too funny, Bro.

[Royal Dragon]

Oh, I see. Now the kung fu guys are claiming that the goal of SC throws is to put people on their sides. Just a little while ago it was on their heads.

Too funny, Bro

Reply]
There are many throws in Shuai Qiao, each has thier own goal.

[Water Dragon]

Slapping is done in practice when you are not working to counter your opponent's throw.

LOL @ judo being taught the same as SC. Not if you guys are being taught to put your hands over your heads when you land.


Oh, I see. Now the kung fu guys are claiming that the goal of SC throws is to put people on their sides. Just a little while ago it was on their heads.

Too funny, Bro.

Uhhh, when did I become a Kung Fu guy? When I argued a point with you?

Thing is Dale, you have a lot more experience in BJJ than me, but I have some. I also have experience in both Shuai Chiao and Judo. I'm calling it like I see it. Sorry if that doesn't agree with you.

[MasterKiller]

Shouldn't you guys be masturbating to she-male porn on x-mas eve like the rest of the Western world instead of arguing on a kung fu message board?

[Water Dragon]

Huh? You mean this isn't the she-male porn board? I'm so embarrased

[SevenStar]

LOL!! Years ago, I was arguing with the board about the validity of this very technique following a throw. The consensus was that I'm nutts, I've never been in a real fight, and it could never be used!

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/8779/kneedown1wi7.th.jpg

if I remember right,you were saying that in the event that the throw didnt finish them you would drop your knee on their head and knock them out.

[SevenStar]

Maybe because in Judo (where BJJ comes from) the idea is to throw the guy on their back for Ippon. Perhaps if Judo focused on throws that actually put people on their sides, the break falling would have evolved slightly differently.

tactically, why would you want to? this may be a chance to illustrate differences between grappling styles again a la our ever popular ultimate grappling thread

[Royal Dragon]

if I remember right,you were saying that in the event that the throw didnt finish them you would drop your knee on their head and knock them out.

Reply]
I think my point was to use the knee on any soft target that was convinently avaliable (Neck, ribs, solor plexus etc...), but yes, you pretty much got it.

[Water Dragon]

tactically, why would you want to? this may be a chance to illustrate differences between grappling styles again a la our ever popular ultimate grappling thread

The first thing here that pops into my head would be to cut down on the odds of a counter attack. outer bowing/outside seio nage is a great example. The throw lands you directly on your side, but there's not as much chance of getting punched due to the position you take on the outside gate. I actually found out that outer seio nage actually DOES exist in Judo, it's just not really used because the most you'll get out of it is a waza-ari.

Cracking lands you on the side too, but that's also an attack against a joint which is illegal in Judo. I've pulled off both in Randori and the comment I got was the same. "Cool throw, where'd you learn that?"

[SevenStar]

if I remember right,you were saying that in the event that the throw didnt finish them you would drop your knee on their head and knock them out.

Reply]
I think my point was to use the knee on any soft target that was convinently avaliable (Neck, ribs, solor plexus etc...), but yes, you pretty much got it.

our point was that it is not a finisher. it, like knee on belly is a control position.

[Knifefighter]

Uhhh, when did I become a Kung Fu guy? When I argued a point with you?
Oops! Sorry for the insult.

[Becca]

Maybe because in Judo (where BJJ comes from) the idea is to throw the guy on their back for Ippon. Perhaps if Judo focused on throws that actually put people on their sides, the break falling would have evolved slightly differently.

You're trying to put an orange in the apple bowl and then complain that it ain't red, Bro.


... Blood oranges are red on the inside... Sorry, just had to argue...:p