School in NYC(traditional/application)

[fr0st003]

Hello, this is my first post on these forums. I am interested in find a instructor in NYC. I have a bit of martial arts experience and have won a number of competitions in judo and tae kwon do when I was in my teens. I have since taken a break from martial arts. I would now like to rejoin the world of martial arts, but now with something a bit more "artful".

I am look for a instructor that will train me in traditional forms and application. Being in NYC I have seen a lot of schools and I know most of them aren't really authentic and would just rather take my monthly fee and slap a belt on me every now and then. I am not looking to get "Belts" I am looking to learn a art with roots in combat.

thanks in advance for your help,
John

[Phuc Carem]

You will need to see Sifu Raul Ortiz he is in NYC and will do a great job of teaching you good Mantis Basics and if you stay around long enough some very nice forms as well.

[fr0st003]

Ortiz Chinese Boxing Academy is that him? Also in my search I found Tony Chuy, how is his instruction?

[jimdimag]

You might check out:

http://www.northernmantis.com/home.html

Sifu Tony Chuy has trained under Brendan Lai and Chui Chuk Kai, but well respected in the Mantis world.

Jim

[jimdimag]

Looks like we were posting at the same time. Your note wasn't there when I was writing mine up.

I have never met Sifu Chuy, so I can't comment on his instruction... only on his lineage.

Good luck in your search.

Jim

[Phuc Carem]

I do not know if that is his academy name as I met Mr. Ortiz many many years ago and we had talked and got along pretty good and we exchanged some training pointers and forms but this was a real long time ago. As for the other gentleman who's name was mentioned I would study under him as well as he should be very great as well. My first Master when I was in Vietnam was GrandMaster Chui Chuk Kai and I loved the training and later studied under his disciples when he left, then I went to South Korea and studied under GrandMaster Fung and then many years later under another Master in Korea. If you can find anyone who learned from them or one of their students taught by them you will be very well trained.
I wish you luck in your pursuit, Take care and be well.

[fr0st003]

Thanks for all the responses. I will be checking out the schools when I return from my trip to Wa.

[wiz cool c]

Tony Chuy shcool does a lot of applications and they teach traditionaly. They don't spar for something like 8 years but they do a lot of application. And their forms look good.

[Shaolinlueb]

does it have to be mantis or any kung fu? there are a couple good eagle claw guys in nyc if i remember correctly. ill ask my sifu for more info.

[7starstudent]

Carl Albright is in Brooklyn - seven star lineage; he's the real deal.

http://www.lawclansman.com/

[Phuc Carem]

All of the above mentioned Masters are the real deal.

[7starstudent]

Agreed - my comments regarding the Brooklyn school was not intended to disclude the aforementioned sifus or schools.

[lui1828]

Tony Chuy shcool does a lot of applications and they teach traditionaly. They don't spar for something like 8 years but they do a lot of application. And their forms look good.


Now I know why kung fu people get their butts kicked

[Sam]

If you are looking for traditional and combat effective style try James Cama Sifu at 225 Park Row NYC in Chinatown Sports Club Mon. & Wed. 8:00 to 10:00pm. He is the lineage disciple under Robert Lee who is a direct disciple of Grand Master Lam Sang of the Kwong Sai Jook Lum Gee Tong long Pai (Southern Praying Mantis). 347 495-6992
www.jooklummantis.com

[mantisrider]

Now I know why kung fu people get their butts kicked

What martial art do you study and what criteria do you think a
student should have for free sparring? Do you think it is fair for you to
judge our fighting abilities without knowing anything about us? Have you
visited our school? Spoken to our Sifu or students? Please feel free to
come by and observe a class before making such remarks.

[mantisrider]

Tony Chuy shcool does a lot of applications and they teach traditionaly. They don't spar for something like 8 years but they do a lot of application. And their forms look good.

not sure where you get your information from. There are few things my Sifu considers before having any students spar such as how long he/she have been at the school and the level and ability of the student. It can take a few years for a student to get to that level, it all depends on the person but students are introduced to partner conditioning, sensitivity, and application drills within a few months of joining the school. We do not believe in throwing beginners right into sparring "sessions" before they have a good foundation in the style. Otherwise, they may be prone to reverting back to what may come instinctual to them prior
to their training rather than using praying mantis techniques and applications. This is why we focus on sahn sao practice a lot to develop those mantis techniques into reflex before allowing students to free spar.

[Sifu Darkfist]

Hello, this is my first post on these forums. I am interested in find a instructor in NYC. I have a bit of martial arts experience and have won a number of competitions in judo and tae kwon do when I was in my teens. I have since taken a break from martial arts. I would now like to rejoin the world of martial arts, but now with something a bit more "artful".

I am look for a instructor that will train me in traditional forms and application. Being in NYC I have seen a lot of schools and I know most of them aren't really authentic and would just rather take my monthly fee and slap a belt on me every now and then. I am not looking to get "Belts" I am looking to learn a art with roots in combat.

thanks in advance for your help,
John

I have had little time to post and i might be late but this is worth the tardy reply
for what you seek i would suggest 2 places either http://www.wutang.org/
or http://www.pachitanglang.com/ both are internationally renowed for the combination of applications / tradition . The latter is GM Su YU Chang aka Lightining Fist and is one of the definitive sources on N Praying Mantis

the former is GM MArlon Ma's school and is pretty much the same system but with a different emphasis on arts. both are equally good as far as instruction goes. I guess it boils down to where you are.
James

[sspm]

Mantis Rider wiz cool c gets his information about the school because his girl friend used to be a student at the school.
But who cares what they say. It is their opinion. If people think that sparring is the only way to learn how to fight then that is fine for them. I don't really see how sparring helps one learn how to fight in a real street situation. Whether you use pads or not people usually sparring (and I said usually I am not saying every one and I am not talking about sport fighting) do a lot of dancing around and feints and what not. That is not what street fighting is at all. You don't dance around; you fight. You either throw your fists and kicks or some one charges the other person. The way Sifu teaches works and that is all that matters. We know it and he knows it. The way he has us train works. We don't dance with other people we stand there and get used to some one punching at us without any equipment on and if you don't block you get hit. We don't use a 100% of power per say but we go at each other hard enough and fast enough where if you don't block when you get hit or kicked it will hurt but the most important thing is that you get used to some one putting their hands in your face or by grabbing you or kicking at you. And by doing that you start to garner confidence in your system and your self. You get in a situation and some one throws a punch you are prepared for it because you are used to it, you don't have to be nervous or timid. And when we protect ourselves we are using the mantis system the way it is supposed to be used and because of that it will carry over in a real situation, because we do it a lot. It becomes second nature and like I said earlier we don't dance around. We don't duck or flinch we block and counter attack using mantis techniques and that is all we use. While we are training we get used to being grabbed and pulled and knocked down. We sit there and take it we don't try to run from it which is what a lot of people do when they are sparring. When you are sparring you look for openings or you are trying to stay away from your opponent but the way we train we don't do any of those things, we want to stand there and bridge the gap. We close with our opponent as fast as possible and control them and the situation. That is how we train and it works. And we are using what we are being taught, which happens to be Mantis!

[lui1828]

What martial art do you study and what criteria do you think a
student should have for free sparring? Do you think it is fair for you to
judge our fighting abilities without knowing anything about us? Have you
visited our school? Spoken to our Sifu or students? Please feel free to
come by and observe a class before making such remarks.


I was at your school when Brenden Lai gave a seminar a few years ago. Master Chuy and his students are certainly a nice bunch of guy. Even though Master Chuy met me only one time, he still remember me and said hello when we met on the street months later.

For 98% of those who do Kung fu without real unrehersed give and take, their Kung fu will fail them. Go to any boxing, wrestling, muy thai.. gym and ask them
for a "sparring session". See how long you last. Oh wait, " kung fu has deadly techiques that cannot be used in sparring" . It's always one excuse or another.

I did judo for 10 years and it gave me more confidence than I had with my prior with prior kung fu traning.

[SixStringFist]

For 98% of those who do Kung fu without real unrehersed give and take, their Kung fu will fail them. Go to any boxing, wrestling, muy thai.. gym and ask them
for a "sparring session". See how long you last. Oh wait, " kung fu has deadly techiques that cannot be used in sparring" . It's always one excuse or another.



I've never done unrehearsed sparring in my classes, and in either of the fights I've gotten involved in since I began training, my Kung Fu didn't "fail" me. In fact, the presence of mind and focus I learned in training is what kept my wits about me even though I'd had a couple...alright, a few....alright, six....drinks before one of the altercations. Granted, I didn't use any of my animal forms but I believe CMA is about more than technique.

IMHO handling a street fight is a personal issue. Oftentimes one's training can fly out the window once the "fight-or-flight" response kicks in, regardless of how often one spars. Granted, sparring and tournament or MMA fighting can prepare a person for the sensations involved with a physical fight, but once the event happens, all bets are off and chaos sets in. The principles behind the techniques are how a person can rise above that chaos.

Geez. I talk too much.

[hokfumantis]

Its funny how some people rate their martial arts upon "style", as if this is the only way to rate martial arts. Oh how contrare, each style only teaches principles and concepts, a philosophy to approach combat. It is ultimately however, up to its adapter (the practicioner) to make these concepts work. I have martial arts friends who represent different types of fighting styles. From African, Asian to Brazilian, and I have experienced that great martial arts depends only upon the person. I have sparred people of the above mentioned styles, including Judo practicioners who were all black belts. Some of them were very disappointing and others very impressive. I hope you will later realize that your views are extremely narrow and superficial.

[wiz cool c]

I'm not saying anything bad about Tony Chuy school. I have watched several classes there and liked what I saw. I just stated the facts about sparring there. If that embarrasses you thats not my fault.

[Young Mantis]

wiz cool c,

I don't recall any of my classmates stating they were "embarrassed" by your comments. You made a statement about our school and so we clarified on how our school operates for people to understand. Yes, it does take some time for a student at our school to be allowed to spar. It is not always a timeframe like 8 years as you claim but as stated by my classmates, it varies for each student depending on their ability and preference. Also, not all students study gung-fu for fighting. If you want to believe that we are embarrassed by such statements, feel free. By the way, what is your name again?


Vance Young
Tony Chuy's Praying Mantis Martial Arts Institute
12 E. 32nd Street, 6th Fl
New York, NY 10016

[wiz cool c]

Ok you know your school much better then I. But about 4 people from your school told me this information. Also that instructors only need to spar 9 times. About how long does it take to get to spar at you school. And my name is Chris Friedman

[Young Mantis]

Dear Chris a.k.a. wiz cool c,

Thank you for giving your name. Actually, we already knew who you are but I am glad we can be straight forward with our dialogue.

Since you seem so interested in the dynamics of our school, I shall continue to discuss our philosophy of teaching. Take whatever you want from it but I state clearly on behalf of my school and Sifu why we do things the way we do.

Our school is a traditional one in that we do not train just fighting or more specifically, self-defense which is different. We also train students in chi-gung, Chinese medicine, use of pressure-points for joint locking, traditional weaponry, classical lion dance. While not all students stay long enough to learn every aspect of the curriculum, it is Sifu's goal to educate and promote as much of Chinese culture as he can.

We strongly believe that the traditional study of martial arts is more than just fighting. The ability to fight is only one of many possible goals and in fact, Sifu has emphasized many times that to develop fighting skills, it does not take a long time. For the average Joe, 5-10 classes can teach someone how to effectively fight. Going further, for someone, as Sifu likes to say, who cannot walk and chew gum at the same time, 10-20 classes would do. But fighting is not the main focus of our curriculum. Our aim is to promote Chinese culture and spread Chinese gung-fu to the American public. Our program is not designed to produce tournament or even street fighters. We do not promote hostility nor any eagerness to fight amongst our students. But we do train them in the practical and effective application of the techniques within the Praying Mantis system for self-defense. We do so with repetitious partner drilling. We do so by training our techniques so that they become reflex. This is where we focus most of our training and where students really learn about our style.

The first two years are spent mostly on movement. Developing body coordination, balance, strength, flexibility, endurance. We do this mostly through forms practice. The Praying Mantis style is not basic and many seasoned martial artists of other styles find it difficult to pick up the body mechanics of our style. Yet my Sifu finds a way to train each student, regardless of background, and regardless of how easy or difficult it is to train them. In fact, the slower the student is, the more he challenges himself to develop a way to teach that student. But even at this stage, students are introduced to partner drilling to begin developing and understanding bridging tactics and self-defense techniques, developing distance, timing, conditioning, sensitivity, and reflex.

As students progress, more time is spent on partner drills with an increasing number of techniques and scenarios to practice. We drill these over and over again but unfortunately, not all students have the discipline nor the patience for this very important stage of training. Those that survive learn discipline, control, respect, and humility in addition to a vast array of techniques practiced over hundreds of times. Now how long a student spends in this stage varies per individual and thus determines whether or not they are ready to do any sparring.

In regards to sparring, it is true that we don't place a high emphasis on this stage of training. Those that want to and are deemed ready may do so but we do not force anyone to spar. It is a personal decision. However, for our students who wish to graduate from our Advanced level of study, we do impose a minimal number of sparring sessions. And when we do spar, it is highly emphasized that only our actual Praying Mantis techniques, strategies, tactics, and tricks are used so as to learn how to apply them in a less controlled setting. We do not allow students to just exchange blows. And for this reason, it is why we require the students to develop their techniques first through controlled partner drills because without that training, students would tend to fall back on their pre-training and instinctive reactions and they would not have learned anything about Praying Mantis through sparring this way. But we do not believe simply because you have sparred X number of times means you are a better fighter than someone who hasn't. Sparring is just another level of training that adds another dimension to a situation. But no in-school sparring situation will ever mimic even remotely an altercation with another live unknown opponent. But if you feel sparring is the ultimate training method for fighting and to do so sooner than later is better, than that is your belief and I don't judge you because of it. To each his own as they say.

I believe in our system of training because it produces people who are confident in their techniques, disciplined in knowing when and when not to use them, having enough control to not inflict more harm than is necessary, respectful of others be they friend or foe, and the humility to know there will always be someone better than themselves so do not show off nor think themselves better than others.

I'm sure you wanted something shorter, probably just some number for when one can start sparring at our school. If you are still looking for that answer, then you need to read this post again. I think I have explained enough about our school's teaching philosophy and I do so because of my passion for the art and the confidence of what I have been taught.

I have studied under Sifu Tony Chuy for over twenty continuous years. I believe in his teaching method and it is why even after graduating from his curriculum and given permission to teach on my own, I continue to remain here to assist him as an assistant instructor. I know you have spoken to past students of our school but now you have heard it from me. If you have any other questions about our curriculum, feel free to ask.

Thank you and good luck with your own training.

Vance Young
Tony Chuy's Praying Mantis Martial Arts Institute

[wiz cool c]

Cool no problem. I did Japanese jujitsu for 9 years that was all partner work no sparring. To each his own. I have no problem with your school its curriculum or its students. I just stated what I herd.

Personaly I like grappling and am studing Shuai Jiao in Beijing now for 9 months. They have a slightly different approach. I sparred on the second class here against a 20 year old who has been doing it most his life. Luckly I had past experence and did all right. The third class I sparred the teacher for about 20 minutes and he threw me around like a rag doll. Since my 9 months here I have sparred probably about 200 times. Why do I feel this is good. Well people try their hardest against you every time just like they would in a street fight. You get used to the strugle. You build great stamina and get strong at the same time. And its alot of fun.

[mantis monk]

Greetings to all Praying Mantis family. I would like to learn the weapons in the PM system, broad sword, long staff and the geem. If anyone has videos or dvd's on these weapons i would love to hear from you.
I live in the UK and would also love to hear from other PM members. Happy Chinese New Year to all.
Mantis Monk

[SwaiingDragon]

try Shuai Jiao:

www.ShuaiJiaoNY@hotmail.com
115 W27th Street, 6th floor
Sundays- 12-2pm

[Rising Sun]

mantis monk, where in the UK do you live?