The Myth of the Knifefighter

[WinterPalm]

Kind of a spinoff from another thread... How many people have heard of a poster on here that can do anything to anyone and counter anything, no matter what while standing or on the way to the ground, under water, in zero gravity, or in the 5767th dimension?

The fact is, you will almost never be able to execute any techniques against Knifefighter even if you are more skilled and providing the resistance or leverage of a tank. While these types of attacks can sometimes, .000001% of the time get in it is because he let you and almost always accidental.

Any techniques that one can perform "on purpose" will be those that one can do while Knifefighter is letting you do it, or, if it is standing or on the ground, he will be doing them. Further, only Knifefighter knows best and is the only true martial artist who can execute every technique against everyone.

Bottom line, if Knifefighter doesn't train in it or know how to use it, it is garbage and will never work even against your grandma...who Knifefighter would submit without using his hands!:eek:

[golden arhat]

hahahahahahahahah lmfao
too true man too true

[SifuAbel]

The fact is, you will almost never be able to execute any techniques against Knifefighter even if you are more skilled and providing the resistance or leverage of a tank. While these types of attacks can sometimes, .000001% of the time get in it is because he let you and almost always accidental.

Don't forget, he's really a cyborg.

[Fuzzly]

Don't forget, he's really a cyborg.


Cyborgs are not as cool as full robots, however.

[jigahus]

Cyborgs are not as cool as full robots, however.

Now that's a myth.

[Yao Sing]

Knifefighter is the illigitimate offspring of Chuck Norris and Chyna (who's last name is really Gracie but dropped it because nobody would get in the ring with her).

He was concieved when Chyna accidentally fell out of the ring onto Chuck's lap. When she found out she was pregnant she squeezed him out. He was only 26 cell divisions old but survived in the streets by crib fighting.

To this day all he wants is the attention he never got from his parents.

[Golden Arms]

Knife knows what he is talking about on some fronts..but his opinionated "facts" crack me up. I train pretty regularly with several guys with 30+ years of consistant training against resisting people, and yet knifefighter seems to think he knows more than all of them pretty regularly. Whatever, one thing I DO know for sure is, ego gets in the way of progress in your training past a certain point, and I hope for his sake that he is a lot different in real life...

[Yao Sing]

Unfortunately his insight gets lost in his assanine behavior.

[yenhoi]

I heard Knifefighter was from the year 95 95

:eek:

[Ray Pina]

In my opinion, the man has put his skill and knowledge to the test against other men in sanctioned cage fighting events... which, right now, is the most realistic, legal, safe venue we have to compare in reality all these things being discussed here.

I hold his opinions in higher regards than those of John Smith, the kung fu form and point sparring wizard, even if John Smith regularly dominates Joe Blow... another kung fu expert who's been training for 20 years with Chinatown killers that no one knows... who have never fought, never mind beat, anyone that anyone knows.... or have fought in any venue that requires a certain bare minimum of skills.

The biggest issue CMA faces is being honest with itself. Let's break it down... how many here have tested themselves in open sanctioned events?

Street and in-school stuff is very subjective. Sanctioned events bring a certain quality.

The impression I get is that many of the posters here are not training themselves nor are their conditioned mentaly or physicaly for that situation. Instead of pickung up their training, they'd rather dismiss those that hold a mirror up to their face and basically say ... "It's cool what you're training. Great that you're learning something. But if you think you can handle someone who's training to fight.... forget it."

Which these people already know... which is why they haven't fought, aren't fighting now, and won't if they continue down their road.

No secret.

[Mas Judt]

Duh.

But KF opens himself up to teasing when he mouths off on highly debateable points. If he can't take an ego bruise or two, he should keep to himself, quetly confident he can beat up most mcdojo types, and probably some good fighters too.

[Liokault]

In my opinion, the man has put his skill and knowledge to the test against other men in sanctioned cage fighting events... which, right now, is the most realistic, legal, safe venue we have to compare in reality all these things being discussed here.





In my opinion, he played with a average looking wing chun guy, and looked funny and masiverly non threatening :D

After a long time of reading his posts, I was amazed to find that hes about 55kg and so old!

[Golden Arms]

Ray, no offense, but I have fought and won my share of san shou matches, as have lots of my buddies. If we work with guys that can school us and teach us things that work, then they dont have to compete in that venue to prove that they could beat our opponents, if they can beat us consistantly, they have more skill. I have respect for what you are doing, but nobody ever said you are the only one doing it, or the first. To me you are just a brother in arms, only most of them dont post on forums.

[David Jamieson]

meh, he's a dick. But so are lot's of guys here, myself included at times and certainly...well pretty much all of you at one time or another.

at least he's not some inebriated little twit.

he's a thron, but some of his stuff is worth reading and a lot of it is worth arguing about because he is so strong minded in his ways of presentation.

Best troll to have around here. At least he puts thought into his trolling.

Apparently it works, see here this thread made up to deliberately knock on the guy.


anyway, that's Abel's prison pie and lawn jockey, I wouldn't make any moves on Abel's prison pie wp. He might not like that. lol

[rogue]

Generally KF is right about MA, but once in the while he stumbles. Give the guy a break. Really. :D

[David Jamieson]

Generally KF is right about MA, but once in the while he stumbles. Give the guy a break. Really. :D


ok, how about say...hmmm, i dunno, a standing arm break? :P

muwhahahahahahaha!

[lunghushan]

Ray, just how are we supposed to practice anything like a standing arm break in a sanctioned match? Tell us how we can practice techniques such as an eye gouge safely in a sanctioned match.

We can't. Hell, I used to do the equivalent of san shou sparring in karate events. Whoop-dee-doo. Kickboxing. Whoop-dee-freaking-doo. It's lame and boring.

So I don't bother with it. Why would I want to subject myself to that, and possibly catching Hep-C from somebody just to do kickboxing?

[Knifefighter]

Ray, just how are we supposed to practice anything like a standing arm break in a sanctioned match?
Standing arm breaks are allowed in all MMA, BJJ, and submission grappling matches.

[SifuAbel]

Standing arm breaks are allowed in all MMA, BJJ, and submission grappling matches.

So is driving a bus into the ring. No mention of something doesn't make it part of a paradigm.

[Knifefighter]

So is driving a bus into the ring. No mention of something doesn't make it part of a paradigm.
Anyone is perfectly free to try their vicious standing arm breaks in any of these competitions.

Don't think they'd get very far with a bus, though.

[lunghushan]

Standing arm breaks are allowed in all MMA, BJJ, and submission grappling matches.

I really want to break somebody's arm in a match. Are you totally nutso? No thanks.

Plus, last time I checked there was this thing called tap-out.

Plus, they only check for Hep-C like once a year or something, which is totally useless.

Bottom line is who cares? You are a sport fighting guy, then go do your sport fighting.

You want my uncensored opinion? (Okay, a bit censored) You're a loud-mouthed person that I'd like nothing better than to go fight you in your cage and shut you up, but unfortunately ethics demands that we don't hurt people in fighting for no reason at all.

If they allowed KF techniques in MMA fighting such as striking to the back of the head, striking to the spine, striking to the eyes, striking to the groin, do you really think that it wouldn't change the outcome of the fight? They SHUT DOWN fights just because somebody GETS A FINGER IN THE EYE BY ACCIDENT.

Bottom line is MMA fighting is SPORT RING fighting. Does that change the fact that a lot of CMA fighters couldn't apply their stuff in a fight? NO. But does it mean that a CMA fighter couldn't use their stuff in the ring? YES.

So go back to your little cage where you belong.

[Ray Pina]

Duh.

But KF opens himself up to teasing when he mouths off on highly debateable points. If he can't take an ego bruise or two, he should keep to himself

Why should a grown man tease someone or be teased over disagreeing on highly debatable points? And why, if that point involved physical combat, should the person who has more experience in that matter be subject to ridicule by those who haven't put themselves in that chaotic position?

In actuality, it is those who like to consider themselves some degree of martial experts who have their ego bruised when question on what they base their credentials.

[Ray Pina]

If we work with guys that can school us and teach us things that work, then they dont have to compete in that venue to prove that they could beat our opponents.

No one needs to prove anything to anyone.

I have always been able to beat everyone I have trained with until now, now that I train at Renzo Gracies. Prior to that, I was able to beat all the students and seniors where I studied Hung Gar, Wing Chun, S Mantis and E-Chuan.... that is why I went out to play. I also have NEVER lost a challenge match or Throwdown.

Guess what? I've NEVER won a sanctioned sport fight (I hope to change that later this month). The level of fighter and the level of the preporation are different.

Think about it. If you enjoy it and you know you'll win why wouldn't you enter? Why would you just continue beating the some old guys doing the same old thing as you?

Its easy to say it's the same. Watching it from the crowd or on TV makes it look easy. You see the could'ves and should'ves. Being in there and doing it is different.

I'm not taking anything away from anyone. But I'm not going to sit back and let others TRY to take something away from someone who has done what Knife Fighter has done.

No matter how many training brothers or friends are around you, sitting in that room waiting for your fight (watching guys come back pumped after a win, some taken to the hospital after a bad loss, some crying, a lot bleeding) is a lonely place. And it takes something.

Most of the guys I meet at Throwdowns or just your random guy who trains well enough to think he can compare, you can sense he lacks it right away. You know as soon as you crack him good once or twice he's going to fold. You can't teach that. That comes from inside.

I think I have enough of that inside to compete at the amatuer level. I know I don't have enough of that desire to train the way I'd need to train to compete at a pro level. I've realized that. I'm 32 and want to make a life for myself and fighting isn't the way to do it. That's just being honest with myself.

Does that mean I'm a bad martial artists? I don't think so. Does that mean my skills aren't sharp? I don't think so?

[Knifefighter]

I train pretty regularly with several guys with 30+ years of consistant training against resisting people, and yet knifefighter seems to think he knows more than all of them pretty regularly. Whatever, one thing I DO know for sure is, ego gets in the way of progress in your training past a certain point, and I hope for his sake that he is a lot different in real life...
Yeah, I am different in real life... but this would be a pretty boring place if I was like that here.

I am curious, though, as to how my opinion differs from others who have been training and competing as long as I have. What is their background and how are our opinions diiferent?

[yenhoi]

If its against your ethics to beat people up for "no reason." Then wouldent it be against the same ethics to talk trash?

2007 has really brought you "kung-fu guys" and your cult out of the woods early this year.

:eek:

[unkokusai]

Yeah, I am different in real life... but this would be a pretty boring place if I was like that here.

I am curious, though, as to how my opinion differs from others who have been training and competing as long as I have. What is their background and how are our opinions diiferent?



People who have competed for a long time ('competed,' not forms comparison shows) are likely to be closer to your pov than the 'I believe in the killing techniques I've never actually done as taught to me by someone who has also never actually used them' crowd. But there's plenty of room in the middle for discussion.

[Ray Pina]

how are we supposed to practice anything like a standing arm break in a sanctioned match? Tell us how we can practice techniques such as an eye gouge safely in a sanctioned match.

I used to do the equivalent of san shou sparring in karate events. Whoop-dee-doo. Kickboxing. Whoop-dee-freaking-doo. It's lame and boring.


You don't enter a sanctioned event to practice. You go there to beat someone. If you're not thinking like that don't go.

You practice at the studio or gym.

I promise you, if you enter an MMA event you won't be bored. I entered MMA because San Da's pace was too fast for me, I felt I couldn't keep up with constant stand up with no change of pace on the ground. Also, I don't like boxing gloves and head gear... harder to end a fight with a good shot, going back to a long, fast paced bought.

I fought San Da though because I was bored with karate-type tournaments... loosing because someone's toe touched my torso (they got a point) and then I grap that leg and dump them (disqualified).

[Mas Judt]

While i am trying to have a little fun here, I see this devolving into a very, very old argument, one I honestly thought was general info here years ago.

"Sport Vs. Combat."

Without boring evryone by restating the position of both, it is a repeatedly proven point ad naseum that combative sport training supplies a distinct advantage over non-resistant training. Despite the lack of many 'dangerous moves.' (in fact I encourage people to try an eye-gouge against an active MMA competitor. Good luck with that.)

The downside is you can develop some bad habits - especially if your form of competition starts to trasform in order to leverage the rules. (This was really apparent at the Atlanta Olympic Judo finals where the Korean champ kept taking falls on his head to avoid being scored against.)

A great book to read on this was written hundreds of years ago on the plight of fencing skills in the West. Called 'the secrets of the sword.' It is amazing how long this discussion is going on.

The person who has competitive experience and understands the 'black hand' or dirty tricks has much more chance of pulling them off than the person who plays on a dead opponent.

The person with competitive experience is more likely to win against someone fiercly fighting back.

It is a reaity. Today's martial venue offers a wide array of opportunnities at all levels, even down to stick and knife-play. All have plusses and minuses, all over a chance to see what you lack.

One of the methods I practice have a core of moves often viewed as too dangerous for competition. However, with skilled opponents, this hasn't been an issue. Oh sure, the technique worked for me, but small modification prevent serious injury - just like wrestling moves have been changed for competition. And I get to see what I can really pull off.

It is up to us not to lose the 'good stuff' while taking the opportunities to build real skills versus combative sports. Oh, and not to be closed-minded tools.

[Mas Judt]

Ray,
Have a sense of humor. I'm positive KF does.

[SifuAbel]

2007 has really brought you "kung-fu guys" and your cult out of the woods early this year.

:eek:

LOL @ the Burger king fool at the McDonalds convention trying to call them a "cult".

News flash: You're in a cult of thought too, dumb ass.

I nominate you as the most asinine poster of 2006. Certainly the most full of ****.

Talk about a Dick-in-hand attitude. So we are here in a kung fu forum, trying to talk about kung fu, with people who supposedly practice kung fu, But if the conversation is anything but negative about kung fu and we are not fellating Royce Gracie's effigy, its us being a "cult". Wow, all I can say is WOW.

GO.........................****................... ........YOUR.....................SELF.....

[Ray Pina]

Great post!

...

I definitely have a sense of humor. I just don't like how a handful of guys attack Knife Fighter ever chance they get. They point the finger very easily but they haven't raised their fists to settle their own martial arts business, see exactly where they stand in the scheme of things. I don't like it. It's not manly, it's certainly not honorable from a martial artists point of view.

[Knifefighter]

LOL @ the Burger king fool at the McDonalds convention trying to call them a "cult".
News flash: You're in a cult of thought too, dumb ass.
I nominate you as the most asinine poster of 2006. Certainly the most full of ****.
Hey! This thread is about bashing me.

Start another thread about Yenhoi if you want to bash him.

[Knifefighter]

I definitely have a sense of humor. I just don't like how a handful of guys attack Knife Fighter ever chance they get. They point the finger very easily but they haven't raised their fists to settle their own martial arts business, see exactly where they stand in the scheme of things. I don't like it. It's not manly, it's certainly not honorable from a martial artists point of view.
Thanks for watching my back, Ray. It's OK, though. It's not like I haven't been harassing these guys for a long time to start with. I deserve a Knifefighter bashing thread... all in good fun- even if they are clueless kung fu pretend fantasy fighters.

[Knifefighter]

In my opinion, he played with a average looking wing chun guy, and looked funny and masiverly non threatening :D
After a long time of reading his posts, I was amazed to find that hes about 55kg and so old!
Yes, I am funny looking, very old, and massively non-threatening... and I talk funny.

Once more... by popular demand:
MMA Clips (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwLFeIqjQ3Q)




The man, the myth, the legend:

[lkfmdc]

why'd you post the cover of last month's "OUT" under your post ;)

[lunghushan]

I vote for Knifefighter for BJJ promoter of the year award.

[Knifefighter]

Ross, I think you are getting me mixed up with Able.

He's the Romoboy.

[hjt]

hey knifefighter

do you compete in the exec division? on the video did you fight bareknuckle or what was it open palm?

[lunghushan]

He doesn't look that old -- what is, he, 45 or something?

Anyways, I agree to your point, KF, that most CMAists can't apply their stuff in the ring. But I disagree about the standing arm break thing.

I'd have to agree that most CMAists probably don't have the training or strength to pull it off in a fight with a resisting opponent, but I don't think it's impossible.

It isn't really anything that I personally would train for anyway, since it would be a very low percentage technique.

I mean, if you happen to be going for a throw and they resist or something, and it's convenient, sure, break their arm, why not, but I don't think you should go into a fight thinking, "I'm gonna break his arm."

[rogue]

Thanks for watching my back, Ray. It's OK, though. It's not like I haven't been harassing these guys for a long time to start with. I deserve a Knifefighter bashing thread... all in good fun- even if they are clueless kung fu pretend fantasy fighters.

Ever hear of a guy named Bruce Lee? :mad:




;)

[lunghushan]

Basically, I think the entire problem with this discussion is pretty simple.

Most people study martial arts and think that weapons and striking and grappling techniques are different. They study some fist form, or fist drills, they study some weapons form or weapons drills, and they study some grappling or ground fighting.

And since their martial art doesn't integrate weapons with striking and grappling, they have to run around and learn other arts and integrate them in their practice.

Most CMA wasn't designed with integrated grappling. Most karate, etc., actually has integrated stand up grappling in the forms, but most people don't know how to use it. But most karate doesn't have integrated weapons.

So you're incomplete as a fighter. Bruce Lee was incomplete as a fighter so he ran around learning other martial arts to 'complete' him. What he came up with was an amalgamation of things -- what's taught in most JKD schools around here is wing chun - boxing - kali - with some judo and wrestling because he ran around trying to complete himself.

[TAO YIN]

Extra, Extra, Read all about it...Extra, Extra, Read all about it...

-Joe, went to his local 18 hole golf course to take up golf. After talking with the Club Chump at the Pro Shop, Joe was very excited and remembered to take down everything the Club Chump had told him. After being screwed by The Chump for his new set of Ping Irons and Titleists, Joe went and bought some instructional videos, some gimmicks and gadgets, and the like...

Joe practiced and practiced, and played and played. On one spring day, he took a lesson from the Club Chump as they played a round. The Club Chump asked Joe, "Why do you want to learn golf so much?" Joe said, "Because I want to be a professional golfer." To which the Club Chump replied, "Oh, well, we have wasted so much time here then. I'll get you signed up for a pro am next week. You need to be competing." And to which Joe replied, "Man your good. I see why you are a club chump. Why aren't you playing on tour and beating Tiger???..."


-Man says to local community college baseball pitcher. "You got a good arm, why ain't you been recruited?"

-And as for the hustler at the bowling alley, the pool hall, and the swap meet...???


You decide??? Oh, oh that's right! Sport fighting is fighting, and fighting is instinctual and much less structurally complicated than all the above.


New MMA student, formerly a TCMA forms junkie, asks his Coach just before his first fight...

"Can I punch him in the eye?"

Coach says, "Yeah, try to work his eyes with your jabs."

Student replies, "But I can't finger strike him in the eye?"

Coach says, "No, it is impossible to finger strike someone in the eye. You can only punch someone in the eye."

Student replies, "But if I keep my hand open, and stick my fingers out and bend them a little like I always do during walking, and well, just most day to day activities, I've got more reach than if I just close my fist, right? And these gloves, they are giving me even more support!"

Coach says, "Punching someone in the eye is a gross motor movement, but finger striking someone in the eye is not. See, as you walk along during the day, you dont really notice it, but you are constantly clinching your fists."

After confusing the student for many many more minutes, especially about Matt Hughes getting kicked in the groin, out of no where a TCMA Sifu walks up and joins the conversation. He listens for a minute and says...

"MMA Coach I challenge you!"

MMA coach says, "Ok."

They fight for a good while and in the end...One got his finger and arm broke, the other one got his eye fuucked up, but neither of them went to fight Chuck. In the end of it all, as long as Tito Ortiz and Jenna Jameson make the Fighting Fuucker of the Universe....The world will find Utopia forever and there will be no more problems whatsoever. Speaking of which...

Did you ever hear about the man who thought he was good at sex? He couldn't make it in porn...Ha.

[SifuAbel]

Ross, I think you are getting me mixed up with Able.

He's the Romoboy.

We all know you like to be the "bottom".

[lunghushan]

I just don't like how a handful of guys attack Knife Fighter ever chance they get. They point the finger very easily but they haven't raised their fists to settle their own martial arts business, see exactly where they stand in the scheme of things. I don't like it. It's not manly, it's certainly not honorable from a martial artists point of view.

And it's not like KF doesn't attack everybody every chance he gets? This is all in response to his attacking Shuai Chiao, isn't it? Oh, wait, no, then he attacked standing arm breaks ... what did he attack before?

Basically his position seems to be CMA sucks, you are CMAists who don't do ring fighting therefore you all suck.