Difference between old and new Analysis of Chin Na Book ?

[derio]

Hi, i'am new here, a friend of mine introduced me to Chin Na as i begin to learn Wing Chun, he show me his book Analysis of Chin Na by Yang Jwing-Ming and i was very impressed so i ordered it, it's a second edition i received, i find lot of new stuff on new edition but seem some missing information (if i understand it right) from first edition to second edition

For example about the Finger Chin Na, control the dragon head page 100 of new edition and page 67 on old (French) edition in old edition he show if opponent use his left hand to grab my hand, the result make thumb of opponent below like this

http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/2941/belowtz1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

And if opponent use his right hand to grab me, result make his thumb go above like this

http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/2668/abovefp7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


But in the second edition of the book he show and explain only if opponent use his left hand to grab me, is it normal ? :roll:

I just check on his VHS he show for both right and left opponent


Thank's

[Oso]

I wouldn't worry too much about difference in editions.

if you are using the book as a companion to training then try to figure out what the technique is doing mechanically and extrapolate.

imho, chinese chin na tends to stick to specific 'technique' a bit to closely and if you want to get good at joint locking you need to understand the physiology and mechanics and work at wrestling with the smaller circle stuff against a resisting opponent. a lot of the stuff in that book won't work against a resisting opponent as illustrated. however, a good bit of it will if taken out of context of the book and played with thoroughly. lol, what's hard is finding people willing to play with small circle stuff.


another good book is Prof. Wally Jay's "Small Circle Jujitsu"

http://www.amazon.com/Small-Circle-Jujitsu-Wally-Jay/dp/0897501225/sr=8-1/qid=1169001945/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/105-0895672-3438810?ie=UTF8&s=books

[YouKnowWho]

If you are serious in locking skill then you should go to the woods and try to use your locking techniques to break some tree branches.

Technique is only 50% and the other 50% is "Gong - ability".

[Samurai Jack]

Actually those Chin Na aren't for the left and right side; they're the same Chin Na applied differently depending on whether the opponent's grab is with his off hand, or if he's mirroring you. For example, if he uses his right hand to grab your left, he's mirroring you, so you use the method in the first set of photos. If he uses his right to grab *your* right though, then you'd use the method in the second set of photos. It's the same technique though, essentially drawing the thumb up the radial side of the forearm, but the different positions of the hand require a different opening.

I'd venture to guess that Yang edited these techniques to shorten the book because it's redundant if you understand Chin Na. The idea is that you should be able to apply these techniques from all sorts of different situations. It's pretty hard to learn from books though. Like Oso already said, you'll need to play with these concepts for a long time, possibly years. Searching for the principle behind the technique, in this case drawing the thumb up the radial bone, is the key to understanding locks.

Good luck.

[lunghushan]

It really doesn't seem like you can learn chin na from a book. I've looked at that book, and I don't think you can learn it.

Even from videos, unless you have somebody to play with it doesn't seem like you're going to get much from it.

I have no idea why these people make books and videos, but it really seems like they do it just to make $ from people who don't know any better.

[derio]

Actually those Chin Na aren't for the left and right side; they're the same Chin Na applied differently depending on whether the opponent's grab is with his off hand, or if he's mirroring you. For example, if he uses his right hand to grab your left, he's mirroring you, so you use the method in the first set of photos. If he uses his right to grab *your* right though, then you'd use the method in the second set of photos. It's the same technique though, essentially drawing the thumb up the radial side of the forearm, but the different positions of the hand require a different opening.

Hi, Good analyse, now it help me to understand it better ;)


I'd venture to guess that Yang edited these techniques to shorten the book because it's redundant if you understand Chin Na. The idea is that you should be able to apply these techniques from all sorts of different situations. It's pretty hard to learn from books though. Like Oso already said, you'll need to play with these concepts for a long time, possibly years. Searching for the principle behind the technique, in this case drawing the thumb up the radial bone, is the key to understanding locks.

Good luck.

I don't think it's redundant (at least for beginner) and if i asked it's because i saw that new edition was Bigger then first so seem he was not affraid to add more info when needed (which is good)

But he also said that he "modified some old techniques according to his current knowledge" and i wondered if the second techniques was removed because he stated it was not effective or no

Thank's for you reply guys :)

[Oso]

just to clarify, i have all three of Shifu Yang's chin na book and have had the first one since the mid 80's and have used them as companions to training. they are great books. just don't get too caught up in the specifics of the applications and focus on the mechanics.

and flow.

[Ben Gash]

Yeah, they're good books if you've got good fundamentals, and are good as a source of ideas and principles to play with. I've got "Comprehensive Applications of Shaolin Chin Na" and it's a good source book, but you need to work out how your going to feed them in Chi Sau, then you'll be able to use them.

[Oso]

What's 'chi sau'?

[Ben Gash]

Chi = stick
Sau = hand
The southern Kung Fu alternative to Tuishou

[Oso]

aw, just rassle... ;)