Martial Arts Gathering 2007.

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Want to take this opportunity here to announce an event scheduled to take place in Kuching Sarawak September 2007.

This is a Sarawak Tourism Ministry endorsed event to showcase traditional fighting arts called Martial Arts Gathering 2007 or MAG2007 in short.

In a nutshell this event:-

• Will bring together some of the rarest Kung Fu and Silats still in existence in SE Asia. There is a certain urgency to bring attention and preserve them before they disappear totally into oblivion. We have been working hard in locating and convincing many of the old Masters to participate in this event. (I posted clips in Wu Lin I Jia thread describing some of these art forms).

• Provide all participants an exceptional opportunity to interact and learn from these Masters, many of them breaking with traditions to work with us in this respect.

• Congregate all those passionate about traditional MAs to work together to look for answers to question regarding histories, theories and principles of traditional fighting systems.

Besides local Masters, we have also invited Masters and friends from around the world to come and share their research and experience.

In fact, Gene Ching (Kung Fu magazine) is one of our invited guests for this event. Presently, I am working out the details of Gene and Kung Fu Magazine’s involvement. At the very least, Kung Fu Magazine will be the exclusive magazine to cover activities leading up to and the event itself.

We also have, more or less, confirmed the attendance of:-

• Sifu Liu Chang I, Feeding Crane Taiwan.
• Russ Smith and his Sensei , Okinawa Goju Ryu.
• Evert Van De Meulen , Hungga.
• Martin Watts and his Yong Chun White Crane family.

I am hoping to hear Robert Hui (Mantis108) confirmation soon.

Besides the above folks, we have arranged for a good assortment of Masters from Singapore, East and West Malaysia spanning a variety of styles to come and share their skills.

Again I want to highlight that this is more than a demonstration of traditional MAs.

Spread over 3 days, the central concept is to get all to “touch hands”.

Please treat this as an invitation to come visit Sarawak and play this September.

I am preparing a dedicated website to provide all the details.

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[GeneChing]

From what Eric has shared with me so far, this looks like it'll be a remarkable event. I'm hoping that it all works out so I can attend.

[BruceSteveRoy]

hi eric, i was curious is there a website for this event? it sounds very interesting.

[Eric Ling]

hi eric, i was curious is there a website for this event? it sounds very interesting.


Yes, a website is under construction even as we speak..

For now I just want to provide some snapshots of the styles and some Masters who are planned to appear in this event.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGBM_bmC2_A

This is not final but we have got, at this time:-

• Hakka boxing – 3 different Chu Gar lines. 2 tigers and 1 praying mantis.
• Southern Praying Mantis Fan Zhuang.
• WuZu or 5 Ancestors. I got folks from Kan Teck Guan’s line and I hope to confirm GM Chee Kim Thong’s Wuzu participation.
• Fong Yang Kung Fu.
• Hungga
• Choy Li Fut
• Chow Gar
• Buddhist Grand Ancestor Boxing
• Southern Grand Ancestor Boxing
• Tibetian White Crane
• Wing Chun
• Fuzhou Whooping Crane from 2 separate lines
• Yong Chun White Crane
• Feeding Crane
• Ancestral Crane
• Shaolin White Crane
• Dragon Tiger Zhuang
• Southern Fukien Shaolin / Lohan



The above is in no way exhaustive as we are still talking to many Masters from other styles to grace this event.

Plus we have many non-Chinese styles to be included, namely Malay silats and Indian fighting arts.

I will keep updating here.

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[forever3821]

do you have any idea of the location of the event, new york or cali?:D

[Ozzy Dave]

Hi Eric,

I'd like to say you're doing a fantastic thing for TMA. I'm new to the board but have viewed some of your clips in other threads - just brilliant stuff to watch these old masters and not so old masters!

I'll be watching for more details of the Sarawak event, it sounds like an exciting opportunity to see so many TMA in one place and its not that far from Oz.

Cheers and beers

Dave

[gojumaster]

forever3821


do you have any idea of the location of the event, new york or cali?:D

The location is Kuching, Sarawak.

Best Regards,

Russ Smith

[Eric Ling]

AAaaarrrrggggghhhh, the youtube clip above is not loading properly again……..

Here's the new link :- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmK4rjMDJIY

Okay, first I just want to thank all of you for your messages including those of who wrote private messages offering assistance… “THANK YOU”.

Now I am going to try & answer some your questions; watch out folks, I will be rambling a little here.

Why am I doing this ?

I love traditional fighting arts, pure and simple.

I grew up doing CKF. My dad and uncles are all White Crane boxers in their own rights and besides running the family business, they were all CKF. This was a much simpler time in Singapore when many immigrant Chinese were still tied, culturally at least, to the motherland. Folks work hard to uphold their cultural identities. Some of you younger folks might not know this but “Chinese New Year” was a enormous thing when I was a kid and many Kung Fu folks took center stage during the 15 days of celebrations with their prancing lions, dragons, KayLum and kung fu display everywhere.

I guess many took the arts for granted, thinking perhaps that it will perpetuate even if left to it own accords.

The 70s was an exciting time for CKF with Hong Kong churning out kung fu movies conveyor belt style. Every other movie was a kung fu movie. Very little plot but all actions and some very good traditional kung fu, if I may add.

This was also the time that you find all sorts of kung fu related books and magazines coming out of Hong Kong, Taiwan and even Malaysia. Personally, I see the 70s and 80s as the “golden era” of CKF in my part of the world.

Everybody wanted to do CKF and you won’t believe the number of schools back then in Singapore. It was like every roof top was a Kung Fu school of some kind and really you are totally spoilt for choice. Those of you who were there in the 70s and 80s will know exactly what I mean. I remember, on a typical training night, you would find hundreds of students training in Chin Woo Singapore, a few blocks away from Chinatown’s People Park Complex…senior folks doing Tai Chi, Pak Kwa and younger folks doing all styles of Northern Arts.

I spoke about this before elsewhere; it was also during this time that every Sunday mornings, Kung Fu high-hands would gather in a place called McRitchie Reservoir and play…

I cannot remember the number of Sunday mornings I spent, wide-eyed watching these folks do their Praying Mantis, Lup Hup, Hsing I, Eagle claw, Shandong Leopard boxing, Weituo and even Northern Moslem Kung Fu.

It was also at this same place that I met a group of Northern Lohan boxers who left me with deep impressions till this day….

Well, things took a different turn for CKF from the 90s onward, in SE Asia at least. For various reasons, CKF lost its place with most people gradually and steadily.

To keep a long story short, you need to look pretty hard today in Singapore to find authentic traditional CKF club. Most schools are defunct and many Masters are now teaching privately in their own homes or small places.

Many clan associations would have a symbolic lion/dragon troop with hardly any real kung fu training involved.

Sarawak, on the other hand, has always been a comparatively insulated country. Self-sufficient in many ways, with her rich natural resources, it was never really part of any mainstream CKF scene.

Many Chinese Kung Fu Masters here are satisfied with just keeping the arts intact within families and clans.

For me, discovering these Masters and their arts is like reliving my childhood thrill all over again. A feeling that I hope to share with all of you….

The downside is that without support, many of these Masters would not be able to sustain and many would suffer the same fate as I’ve witnessed over the years in Singapore.

With a group of colleagues and friends, we decided that something needs to be done now to avert anymore erosion of these art forms.

This coming event hopes to bring attention and support towards preservation.

Personally, I don’t wish to see these arts die out and become statistics in the archives of CKF.

This event aims to bring CKF lovers from all over to congregate and interact and share to work out projects to keep the arts alive.

Humbly, I think it would an excellent opportunity to start preservation and rejuvenation.

Not to mention that Sarawak is a gorgeous place to spend some vacation time. I will do up a photo-slide show of Kuching to give you an idea.

And ooops before I forget, I will buy the Carlsbergs….

Warmest Regards.

Eric


Errrhhh, please pardon my jerky English. I am more comfortable with letting my body do the talking….

[Firehawk4]

What kind of strange Wing Chun do you have over there ?

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Firehawk4, don’t know enough to say what’s strange or not...

This I do know; a Kung Fu friend here is getting me in touch with this group in Malaysia:- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXtXdVPwQp8

I would be in West Malaysia soon to talk to several different schools there about their involvement.

From there I would be heading down to Singapore to do the same.

I mentioned that I am acquainted with Master Ku, Chu Gar Wng Chun. I will be seeing him regarding coming out to Sarawak this September.

Well, like I said, I will be updating here….

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[hasayfu]

Eric,

Just wanted to jump on the band wagon and wish you great succes on this momentous event. I'm usually in Johor in August but wo't be able to stay till Sept. (Kids have to get back to school) I'll just have to live vicariously through Gene and your youtube postings.

I find that Malaysia is a vestige of TCMA (CKF). You know Singapore better then me but I still remember the Lion Dance competion on Orchard Road (Takashima?). So many clubs (7 days of straight comps) and while maybe more modern, they still practice many of the traditions. (fun to see all the bai san on the streets)

I've also met a few traditional masters in Johor/JB and Chinese New Year is great with celebration. Though I share your observation that the new generation is losing touch with the culture. When I first went to Malaysia in 94, CNY was a full 2 weeks. If you didn't stock up on food, you could only find Muslim restaurants open. Now, I think it lasts about 3 days.

The same is happening in Hong Kong though the office of tourism is trying to revive it with the weekly Kung Fu Gok (KF Corner) they host in Kowloon park.

Terima Kasih

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Hasayfu, SAMA SAMA …..

Could you try and tweak your schedule a little and hop over to Kuching; it’s only 1 ½ hours away from Johor – connecting flights from Senai is so convenient these days.

Well, spent this whole Sunday with a group of Kung Fu high hands here to talk about the gathering.

I want to take this time to express my gratitude to Sifu Yokar Tan of Chin Woo Sarawak for making this session possible.

I met with Master Chang Kui Chang from Buddhist Grand Ancestor Boxing. I was really looking forward to the encounter because Grand Ancestor Boxing is one of the arts that I do.

Master Chong’s style is really an eye-opener. I thought I saw traces of Northern elements in his moves. To me, his “Buddhist” portion is reflected in the Lohan flavor laced movements found throughout the entire form.

This is thrilling to me because according to all records, Grand Ancestor or Tai Zu Quan started in Northern China and found its way down South. Could Master Chong’s Tai Zu be the predecessor of my Tai Zu? A sort of “half-way” version before it evolved to the style that I learned? Aaaaarrrggghhhh another ghost ……

Master Chong was kind enough to do a beginner’s form for the camera and later explained the fighting concepts that distinguish this art form. Simply put, no-nonsense fighting; remove all obstructions and penetrate swiftly, again reminding me of Shaolin Lohan boxing.

He also did a very remarkable “Wanderer’s Staff” form from his Tai Zu.

This Master is so versatile that he went on to describe his Praying Mantis, tiger, dragon, crane and phoenix kung fu.

So when I say Sarawak s full of “hidden dragons”, I am simply stating a fact. I am going to meet this Master for more sessions to “steal” his art hahahaha ….

Kung Fu folks around here are still sticklers to traditions.

Since I requested for a demo, its protocol that I do some Kung Fu first. A case of show me yours before I’ll show you mine.

So in the clip, you got yours truly doing a Whooping Crane form first … http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4cRgutBbjI
And I thought I could get away with just watching!

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Hendrik]

Hi everybody,

Firehawk4, don’t know enough to say what’s strange or not...

This I do know; a Kung Fu friend here is getting me in touch with this group in Malaysia:- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXtXdVPwQp8

Warmest Regards.

Eric

Eric,

The clip looks like HK WCK lineage....


Best Regards
Hendrik

[Firehawk4]

Is Master Chongs Southern Mantis and Phoenix Kung Fu Related to the style called Chuka Shaolin Phoenix Eye Fist ?

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Firehawk4, apparently not.

Got to be careful with this; the one thing I’ve learned these last couple of years working with all the Hakka Masters around here is that “Chu” is a very widespread Hakka name.

So if you are in Sarawak and your family name is Chu, Chong, Bong, Ching or even Fong, chances are you’re Hakka or Kek (in dialect).

So if your style has got a “ChuGar” in front, it does not necessarily imply identicalness with other “ChuGar” kung fu; you got to look for verification besides the names.

According to Master Chong, his animal style is Hakka in origin but leaning towards “Daoist” philosophy.

His “crane” looks very recognizable to me though; the returning “flapping” palms is found in almost all Fuzhou cranes. We do it in the “whipping” staccato manner; his is more “fluid”.

Got a clip here showing Master Chong doing a portion of his 5 Animals.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeepwEK7yDE

The second portion of the clip is really interesting. Something that is not regularly done these days; training with heavy weapons.

And folks, I mean HEAVY.

The “kwan dao” you see Sifu Yokar Tan handles weigh a solid 28 kg.

I was having problem lifting and walking around with that thing much less do a form.

I was told that they have a competition coming up in March using heavy weapons. Some weighs as much as 40 kg….

I tell you that I will definitely be there, in the audience, enjoying my Carlsberg.

I am absolutely going no where near these monster weapons.

No way Jose!

I will stick to my light & handy “butterfly knives”….

Warmest Regards.

Eric
.

[Firehawk4]

Thanks Eric I understand .

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Taking a break from kung fu here ….

We had, here in Kuching today, a special kind of street parade – “deity” parade. Many Chinese temples would do this once a year; they set deity idols on sedan chairs and together with devotees, a street procession follows with much joviality.

The street march would generally entail lions, dragons, fish dances from kung fu schools. Today’s parade also saw marching bands, Chinese-opera groups and even some kids from folk-dance classes making the whole event even more vibrant.

In the clip, you will first see some of these groups paying their respect in front of the temple.

From there they proceed on to the planned itinerary. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnxiSd6SYIQ

This being the monsoons season, it rained right after the parade started but this did not put off the participants.

The show went on ……

Me? I was looking for shelter to continue shooting footages…maybe it’s time to source for a water-resistant, all terrains and shock-proof camera.

That or remember to bring an umbrella.

Warmest Regards on a {now you’ll believe me} wet wet wet day.

Eric

[Ozzy Dave]

Hi Eric,

Nice Clip.

Is the first Lion shown a "WuZhu" Lion?

Cheers

Dave

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Really must talk about this; the future “dragons” of CKF here in Sarawak.

Some of you might be aware that I work closely with Master Liew Kao Chye’s “Chinese Martial Arts Association” here in Kuching.

This school is currently managed by Mr. Chester Lim, a very strong advocate of Chinese culture.

Under Chester’s leadership, the school has produced quite a few Wushu champions in Malaysia.

This school is exceptional in that they place emphasis on traditional and competition Wushu.

Most of the athletics are experienced in both.

At the same time, they are also very active in lion and dragon dancing.

In fact they were at the parade yesterday, marching and dancing in the rain….

I tell you I really admire the kids; full of gusto and always adopting the never-say-die attitude even under challenging circumstances.

To them, I am simply “Uncle Ling” and I love the camaraderie every time I am with them.

Honestly, when I look at these kids, I am thinking there is hope after all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRkpQV7h-V8

Chester, if you are reading this; Well-Done …….

And don’t forget that we got a show to do this September.

Warmest regards on another wet wet wet day (when is this rain going to stop?)

Eric

[Eric Ling]

Hi Eric,

Nice Clip.

Is the first Lion shown a "WuZhu" Lion?

Cheers

Dave

Dave, no lion expert here but that I believe is "Hakka" lion ...

Warmest Regards. :)
Eric

[Eric Ling]

Now for some really sleek Silat; Penjak Silat from Jawa Timur.

Exactly the kind we want to brng to you this September.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rp7OpfecaZM


Warmest Regards.


Eric

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Something else that you can expect to see this September in Kuching Sarawak; Indian Fighting Arts.

Got a clip here showing some stick fighting from Silambam.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrftpWU7Zuc

This brings back something that a good friend and fellow MA scholar said years ago; bond between Shaolin and Indian fighting arts is more liable to be found in stick fighting than the commonly supposed “Shaolin Lohan Boxing”.

I am not about to conclude that but the more I look at Indian stick fighting, the more I am persuaded that my friend was right.

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Here the photo-slide show of Kuching that I mentioned in my earlier message; most pics taken before the parade.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-64N5Exrpu4

Kuching is a lot more than what’s depicted here so over the next few weeks……

Got another clip here of my Whooping Crane’s Sihing; some of you might have seen this in Russ Smith’s (Gojumaster) website.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Mo8Q3BQoH8

I am getting my Sihing to be here in September even if I need to bundle him and Fedex him over…

Hendrix, if you reading this; I think my Sihing exudes “stillness” better than anyone I know in Whooping Crane.

A splendid practitioner with very deep knowledge of “Crane” fighting, he is someone I really look up to even after all these years…

Anyway, got a few more appointments to meet some Masters here in the next couple of days; looks like my timetable is full again.

Better do some Carlsberg now before I meet them.

Warmest Regards.

Eric.

[hasayfu]

Bagus!

Eric, the footage you are providing is a cultural treasure. Keep it up.

I know what you mean about "exchanging." I remember the first Sifu I met in Johor. It was one of my first trips to Malaysia and my wife's uncle takes me to meet his Sifu. I'm in shorts and sandals (typical Malaysian wear) and he asked me to show stuff. The sandals I was wearing were too big and it was so weird trying to not have them fly off. Not to mention it was 90 degrees and lots of mosquitos wanting to get some tasty American blood.

Your video of you demonstrating brought back fond memories.

I'm curious if you ever meet any sifu in Perak. I met someone from there and he says that it has the oldest ties to CMA because of the Tin industry. He mentioned a style or type of CMA called Poe-Ket (sp?) It is supposed to be a pure fighting style but I didn't get much else.

Kasih.

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Hasayfu, terima kasih.

Many older CKF folks around this part refer to their arts as “pok kik” instead of “Gung Fu”.

Strictly speaking, “Gung Fu” means “effort” or generic “skills”.

Equating “Gung Fu” or “Kung Fu” to “Martial Arts” is really a more “Western” thing. But these days, everybody’s doing it so…..

My folks are originally from Ipoh Perak. If you go to “Sitiawan” there, you would find primarily Fuzhou Chinese. I still got uncles, aunties and cousins there.

What’s your Sifu’s name?

Read in your profile that you listed “Hungga” as your style.

Got a clip here for you; I posted a portion not too long ago and here’s the entire “Fook Fu” or “Intercepting Tiger” form.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dogeDzBImHs

The young Sifu is Lum Chee Keong from Sibu Sarawak. Sifu Lum (Cantonese for Ling) studied with his dad.

Lum senior did Hungga with 3 different teachers in Canton before coming to Sarawak.

Lum junior, like my Siheng, is small-built and yet, like my Siheng again, they are able to emanate “jin” or “geng” that could only come with years of honing.

Sifu Lum is one of those “doing everything in one breath without changing face color” practitioners.

During one of my trips to Sibu, I visited Lum senior and spoke for hours with him. This old gentleman, in his 80s, is a talking encyclopedia of CKF.

I got so much from him especially the evolution of Cantonese arts and after that session, I realized things about Hungga that I never knew before…. What an outstanding colorful art!

And besides Hungga, he also did a few years of Lama Pai Pak Hok.

All of which, he has agreed to be recorded onto videos.

You know, in the company of someone like Lum senior, I feel like I know nothing about CKF.

Both father and son have decided to grace the September event.

Warmest Regards.
Eric

And dude, mosquitoes are non-discriminatory, equal opportunity blood suckers so don’t take it too hard….:D :D :D

[shinmyouken]

Hasayfu, i believe you are referring to Pok Khek which is the name of a system founded by Master Nip who came over to Malaysia from Hong Kong. It is basically a system that revolves around the training of San Sik and emphasizes a lot on use of weights to train power and speed. Other training includes iron arm conditioning, use of dummy, etc. Pok Khek is a long range system and has a reputation as a tournament style.

[hasayfu]

Excellent!

Both what Eric and SMK sound like what I had heard. I didn't see much of it but he mentioned that it was effective in fighting the thais in kick boxing tournaments. Now SMK says its a single system and Eric says it's a general phrase. The Sifu I spoke with said, if you say PokKhek in Perek everyone will know. Thanks for the info.

My Sifu is Wing Lam. I'm one of his instructors which basically means I've stuck around with him. I love Hung Gar and CMA in general. Hung Gar is very deep. I also like the HaSayFu Hung Gar style my sifu learned.

Hung Gar shares with Fuzhou Bak Hok as well as Lama Pai Bak Hok. Meeting other sifus in these arts has shown me that. I also had a great conversation with Ho Sifu in JB. He is a long time Hung Gar sifu and has many stories of the old days.

You are doing great work.

[FunkySage]

Pok Khek is definitely the name of a system. It used to popular in Malaysia in the 70s around Ipoh and probably other areas. Its a long fist system and is similar in execution to choy lay fut and pak hok although with a much shorter base. Again as shinmyouken has already pointed out it has a reputation for producing good fighters. Not seen it in a long time but I guess some will survive somewhere.

[shinmyouken]

Hi FunkySage, spot on man. Pok Khek was very popular in Ipoh and I heard it even made it as far south as Johor as one of my friend's uncle taught there.

Nowadays its hard to see anyone practicing it. The founder, Master Nip, came from Bak Sing Choy Li Fut background but investigated a lot of fighting styles. Thus you can see the techniques of Lama Crane and Choy Li Fut techniques in the syllabus.

Master Nip also authored a book on Yang style taiji and sometimes his disciples refer to Pok Khek as Tai Chi San Shou! because you can also find taiji techniques inside Pok Khek.

There is a book on Master Nip's taiji written by a Singapore author. Its a slim green color book. There is also a draft manuscript on the Pok Khek system which was not published.

A long time ago I think it was Black Belt magazine had an article on Pok Khek and there is also a listing in the martial arts encyclopaedia by Farkas and Corcoran.

[Firehawk4]

What can you tell me about Chuka Shaolin Phoenix Eye Fist do you know what style it is i herd it was old Chu Gar Gao shaolin or fujian White Crane ? Are you ever going to get in clips of Chuka Shaolin since it is in Malaysia Pengnang i here that area has alot of kung fu .

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

So you guys are talking about “Phok Kek”, a contemporary system?

Are they still active anywhere in W Malaysia?

Firehawk4, I would be calling on Sifu Cheong in Penang to invite him to MAG2007; that’s the plan.

Cannot commit anything now but I will give it a shot. I know someone here acquainted with him and he’s helping in this matter.

Looks like you guys are very familiar with the W Malaysia scene; perhaps you could help me out here.

I am trying to locate some of these folks:-

• Dong Zhiang White Crane or East River White Crane. If I remember correctly this was headed by a Master Quek in the Selangor area.
• Tai Sheng Mun. Almost like Hong Kong’s except without the “Pek Kwa”.
• Nam Kwon Do or Nan Quan Dao.
• Lohan White Crane – possibly another W Malaysian hybrid.
• Anyone connected to Master Lau Chew Ho – an Ngo Chor Master who also taught Fukien White Crane.

If you are based in W Malaysia and would like to meet up, let me know. I should be in KL first week of February.

Received some mails asking for more impressions of Fuzhou Whooping Crane; here’s some footages taken some 10+ years ago in Singapore.

Snippets from old Whooping Crane forms, some not commonly seen anymore.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4dfraMhTHA

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[CannonFist]

Bagus!

I'm curious if you ever meet any sifu in Perak. I met someone from there and he says that it has the oldest ties to CMA because of the Tin industry. He mentioned a style or type of CMA called Poe-Ket (sp?) It is supposed to be a pure fighting style but I didn't get much else.

Kasih.

Yes, I have heard of a type of CMA in Perak that tends to be referred to as Pok Kik. This style does not bother much with forms. Their fighting strategy is like that of Choy Lee Fut and Tibetan Pak Hok. Their favourite combination revolves around the Kup (overhand strike), Pao (upper cut), Seh (shoot, straight punch with regular or leopard punch). Back in the 60s, I heard that this style was well known to challenge other styles in Perak with very good success rates. Back in those days practitioners of this style tend to wear bamboo rods on their forearms when going into fights involving machetes to block the machetes as well as deliver a harder blow with forearms using their swinging arm techniques.

[shinmyouken]

you're right cannonball :-) one of my seniors used the charp chui in tournament and came in first. there was also an incident involving a TKD "ambassador" from Korea which resulted in him being recalled after being decked by the sau chui. the police was called in and my teacher hauled up for questioning. but that was a long time ago. there is also a derivative of pok khek called chik khek in which the founded added in karate techniques :-) i remember seeing a tournament where the top 3 fighters were from the pok khek and chik khek schools - this would be in the early 80s.

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Got a bit of time before I head out to the suburbs to shoot Chu Gar’s Master Liew, so I swing by “Chinese Martial Arts Association” training site last evening…

Had my camera with me so I took some of the boys in action; lighting not too good though.

The boys were training both their traditional and competition routines.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cesp-trvPMc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nndBLD5kayM

Like I said before, these boys are really hardworking doing their forms repeatedly.

I really got to shoot them again with proper light and all ……

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[kismet]

Hi Eric,

This gathering / meeting sounds fantastic. Kudos to you for all your effort and hardwork. I can only imagine you are loving it - training, kungfu and carlsbergs - what more can one ask for in life? I would love to visit in and watch this...I may try to as I believe a mutual aquaintence of ours is definately visiting.

Can I ask who is representing or performing the Chow Gar Tong Long? Have you tried to contact Sifu Lee Teen Loi as I believe this is something he would be very interested in.

Thanks for all the clips, great stuff.

[hasayfu]

Thanks everyone for the info on Pok Kek. It matches what I have heard and filled in some of the gaps.

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Kismet, I will talk to you off-line regarding the Master you mentioned.

And you are 120% right, we must meet and touch hands…:) :) :)

Spent the day with Master Liew Joo Mew, the Chu Gar Internal Jin Praying Mantis teacher who lives some 20 miles from my place.

Master Liew, a Chinese physician, is nice enough to take time off his busy patients schedule to entertain me.

He gave me a very good narrative of the history and principles of his style.

Like many other Masters I spoke to before, he talked about returning to his hometown in mainland China just to be told that they don’t do traditional kung fu there anymore.

This is exactly the same picture that my White Crane family encountered when they went back to Fuzhou some years back.

According to Master Liew, many overseas Chinese were called to go back to the mainland to replant various traditional Kung Fu there. He showed me documents from the mainland to substantiate this.

Later he told me something that really got me all keyed up; in his younger days, he studied another style of Kung Fu called “Shao Lien Quan”.

Shao = little or young.
Lien = Lotus.
Quan = Fists.

This is an inconspicuous style that came out of Fukien Shaolin and regarded to be the “brother” style of Hungga that became popular in Canton and heavily caught up in fighting the Manchurian invaders.

Shao Lien, on the hand, stayed very low profile and left the mainland with immigrating Chinese settling in SE Asia. During one of his trips to China, Shaolin folks over there seek him out because of his knowledge of this style….

Master Liew did the beginner’s form from this style for me. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAgBRBOzze0

He also did forms from his Chu Gar – a beginner’s form, the trident and the iron ruler.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6g1N_T3GbBc

Later he took me through his fighting methodology which consists of nerves and chi-gates striking.

This man’s knowledge in chi-gates striking is really something, many times all he did was plant his fingers into my chi points and I was unable to respond.

I gotta to say that the more I meet these Masters here; I am increasingly feeling that I know very little about Kung Fu.

I left Master Liew with the concurrence of meeting again to do more filming of both his Chu Gar and Shao Lien Quan. Also got his confirmation to appear in MAG2007.

Next I got a date tomorrow to film a lion “eyes-dotting” ceremony at a local temple in the morning and then it’s off to meeting another Master in the afternoon.

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Eric Ling]

Oooookay, it rained like crazy cats and dogs today so I gave the “eyes doting” ceremony a miss.

Did spent the day with a group of CKF veterans in a coffee shop talking about CKF then and now and where it’s headed.

One of them, Master Chang spoke about his involvement in an event in Penang last year and that he’s a personal friend of many Masters there including GM Dato P’ng Chye Khim from Sao Lim (Fukien Shaolin pronounced in Fukinese)…

Master Chang agreed to lend a hand in inviting them for this coming September meet in Kuching and later gave me a bunch of video footages from Penang.

I remember someone asking to see Sao Lim Lohan , the form featured in the “Shaolin Lohan” book, in another thread, so here you go :- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nHCqwFuWdc

Also you’ll see the “White Crane Spreading Wing” exercise that they do over there which totally reminds me of Fuzhou Crane relaxed manner of execution.

I said this before; Ven Sek taught different forms to different disciples in Indonesia, Penang and Singapore.

Going through the footages reinforces my belief.

The “flavor” is alike but the forms aren’t.

Even GM P’ng’s Lohan is dissimilar to the ones I’ve learned.

Well, I will be in that part of West Malaysia soon and hopefully meet GM P’ng.

Warmest Regards.

Eric

Ps. Will try to extract more forms to post… got to go see my old frend Mr. Carlsberg.

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

More of the Sao Lim’s “flavor” that I spoke about.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLggPGwYyAI

In the clip, you’ll see 1) Willow Leaves Palm 2) Jin Kang or “Diamond” Fists 3) Lohan 18 Palms.

The last form, done by the Swiss lady is very interesting…

Got “1 Blossom” or “Yi Ki Buay” written all over it.

Yi Ki Buay was the first form taught to me when I was training in Shiong Lim Temple Singapore in the early 70s.

Warmest Regards.

Eric

And Milan, I read your message before your deletion; which email are you talking about?

Errrrhhhh, let's not forget we had some underwater cables problem recently that affected conectivity in my part of the world..:cool:

[Ozzy Dave]

Hi Eric,

Thanks again for these clips and info.

In particular I appreciate the Sao Lim clip. I practice a little Sao Lim and it’s great to see other forms, especially from someone like GM Dato P’ng. It’s also great to hear there are Sao Lim people coming to MAG2007.

I learned a form in Singapore similar to the one in the clip above, it was called "Jing Gang" Lohan. First third or so was nearly exactly the same.

Give my regards to Mr Carlsberg

Dave

[Asmo]

Hey Eric,

I love your clips, but I am honoustly wondering about the music each time (and turning it off). I think it would be great if it is possible to leave the original sound on!!! You had some training clips as well, where I could see people making sounds during the playing of forms etc. it would be great if that is kept intact.

Other then this, good stuff :)

[Eric Ling]

Arrrrrggggghhhhh …. You don’t like my music:confused: :confused: :confused:

I gotta warn you, original sounds could be anything from dogs barking to children bawling.

Tell you what, let’s meet half the way; I will use softer music or keep volume low so that if there is breathing or verbal explanation of techniques, those would come out audible.

Ozzy Dave, what’s your email address? Please drop me a note at white88crane@yahoo.com thanks.

Okay, now on to the next style and Sifu.

When I first came to Kuching, I wanted to meet 2 groups of White Crane folks.

The first is the late GM Huang Xin Xien’s line essentially because the late GM Huang is related to my late White Crane teacher.

The other is descendants of the late GM Huang Yi Ing – the other distinguished MingHe teacher in Sarawak.

After some asking around, I was introduced to Sifu Robert Siew; one of the few who is still actively teaching.

Robert is really passionate about his Kung Fu. His daytime job in the insurance industry is already hectic enough and still you find him teaching in the evenings; more to keep the art alive than anything else.

Over the last couple of years, I spent quite a bit of quality time with this gentleman discussing the various characteristics of our individual White Crane and I always come away gaining new insights into the world of White Crane boxing.

Met Robert again today and videoed him doing the 4 major forms from his MingHe. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNCAcfi1_Lg

After the video session, we talked about his contribution in this September gathering and possibly working together in some video publishing projects.

2 Fuzhou Whooping Cranes side by side …. What more could I ask for …..

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Eric Ling]

Hi Milan,

My sincere apology if I offended you in any way.

Fact is, my internet connection zonked out for a couple of days; had to put everything in a thumb-drive and use a friend's system to upload.

WuLinIJia is taking the back seat for a short while.

Right now all our materials go to Russ Smith's server in the US.

We foresee that we will be running out of capacity in no time.

I shoot an average of 50Gb of videos a month and my books/magazines collection run into the thousands and add this to what Evert & Russ have got in their collection....

My recent trip to Kuala Lumpur was to talk to some IT companies there about working with us in term of storage capacity , bandwidth and maintenance of WuLinIJia.

I will be in KL again for a second round meeting with these guys.

Simply put, we want to launch right and not postpone projected issues.

Again, my friend, if I was out-of-line, forgive me.

I will write to you on working together for both WuLinIJia and MAG2007.

Warmest Regards.

Eric :)

[Eric Ling]

Now for some White Crane that I really looove .....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cR9m6hNhmac

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Another view of Sifu Robert Siew dong the front portion of the original “Babulien” or “8 linking steps” passed down by the by the late GM Huang.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Y11jdtNEFo

Personally I got a special interest in this particular form because we do the same form in our Whooping Crane albeit in a different manner.

Really like the way his whole body is “energized” like a loaded spring and the method he releases the energy at the end of the technique – crispy. This is his style of manifesting the “whipping” that is associated with almost all Fukien/Fuzhou cranes.

With Robert, the 2 of us take the “agree to disagree” attitude seeing how we express the same art in 2 divergent manners.

Over the many discussions we had, it became obvious that the differences are only skin-deep.

Warmest Regards.

Eric

Milan, sometime in the next couple of days, I will send you a mail regarding MAG2007.
Thanks.

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

I will be hopping over to Kuala Lumpur next; to talk to some IT folks regarding WuLinIJia and also to meet CKF Masters to confirm their Septmember showing.

Here's one that I would love to hook up with :-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idDrpv2NR-M

Maybe it just me but everything I see the "hands out stay out" Hakka fighting systems, I think of White Crane.

That and the way Hakka Masters explode jin at the end of their techniques...

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

You heard me pointing this out a couple of times; roping in Silats in this coming September gathering, well today I sat down with perhaps the highest ranking Silat Master in Sarawak to discuss this matter.

Guru Utama (MahaGuru) Haji Muhammad Haneef heads the largest Silat organization here in Kuching with a new centralized training center – Rumpun Silat Sarawak.

In his position Tuan Haji manages most of the Silat activities around here.

From him I was astounded to discover that there are not less than a 100 different styles of traditional Silats that call Sarawak home – you live and you learn I guess.

We spoke about various aspects of the September gathering and most importantly to get Tuan Haji, who speaks very good English, to conduct one of the workshops we have scheduled.

He is also in the midst of archiving and documenting all the indigenous Silats for the future generations and if things go according to the dialogue, we might be co-operating with him on this commendable project.

Personally, I think all traditional art forms regardless of origin must be preserved.

Before I left him, Tuan Haji gave a VCD recording of the opening ceremony demonstration of his new training centre.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4N0rNWkYkXM

I will be meeting with this gentleman again for more detailed planning of the September event.

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Eric Ling]

Hi everyone,

For those of you who have never been to Borneo, here’s a clip that, I am certain, will be a pleasant surprise:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aym2XZdEUaU

This video trailer is produced by an inland tour agency, Borneo Adventure, operating here in the heart of Kuching. They are one of the best in the business.

In order to give you a special experience here in Kuching this September, in addition to the MAs, we have decided to work with these folks to offer you packages to truly appreciate the natural wonders of Borneo.

I’ve been here for almost 4 years now and after watching the clip, I realized how little I really know about Sarawak.

Maybe after this September gathering, I would squeeze out some time, take a break and go see some of the places featured in the clip.

All work and no play make Eric a very grouchy man …. where is my Carlsberg aarrrrgggghhhhh!!!

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Received a mail asking for more Silat …….

Got another clip here culled from the VCD that Tuan Haji kindly gave me when I met him the other day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_t0XnBLaQ8

You know what, over the last few months; I received quite a collection of Silat materials from friends around here.

Recently someone wrote to me with the message “the more we study the arts, the more we realize that we are alike rather than different”.

After watching the Silat materials, I really got to agree with this comment.

The attires, music and postures might be peculiar but when we get down to the fighting, the differences blur….

And before I leave for my West Malaysia trip, I am arranging for a couple more shoot sessions involving the boys from CMAA and hopefully, Master Kong Shu Ming of Hakka Suppressing Tiger and Grand Master Liew Kao Chye of Chu Gar Tiger Boxing.

And ooooh yes, it doesn’t get any better than this ………:p :p :p

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

What a beautiful day out today..

Took the boys from CMAA to the local council building and got them to go through some of their routines for my camera.

They did both traditional and competition forms and some application drills. With better light, I think you folks would like this more than the previous clip I posted showing the boys in action.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17ALGVKrdCk

I used to spend a fair amount of time with these kids in the last couple of years passing on some traditional skill sets but these days I am swarmed with my own schedule what with the coming September event and all… really miss those sessions.

Next, I really got to pay a visit to Grand Master Lew Kao Chye for some of his Hakka Tiger Boxing.

Now if the weather holds, it will be wonderful.

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Somebody messaged at youtube asking to see these 2 forms whole …..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUCI2klZF8U

Ooookay, we got Calvin Kong doing “Poisonous Snake Obstructing Path” and Yap Foo Ming and his “Shi Men / 4 Gates stick”, both forms are from GM Kan Teck Guan’s 5 Ancestors Kung Fu.

In their twenties, I’ll say these 2 kids are very promising.

I will try and spend some time this week to shoot them doing more, in particular, applications from Shaolin Lohan, Ancestral Crane etc…..

At this point, it’s looking like next week is Silat time and then it’s off to West Malaysia and Singapore for more interviews and footages.

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[BeginnersMind]

Hi all:

Just thought I would offer a word of encouragement to all who are considering going to the MAG event. Should you go? YES!

What Eric is doing with the MAG for the martial arts community is priceless and many of the guys he is gathering will not be around forever. This is something you should not miss.

I plan on being there!

cheers

Chas Fisher
Seattle WA

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Chas, thanks for that message…

Up to my neck with preparations for a press conference here to talk about this coming event; we are launching the website, screening a 15 minutes video trailer and releasing other collaterals.

This is going to be a real special event now that we are pairing up with the
Silat folks.

Picture this; a cast of CKF Masters from scores of styles, many are new even to me and another assortment of Silat experts from forms that, honestly, I have never even heard of.

I am really looking forward to meeting and playing with these Silat folks and maybe learn a thing or two…

Here another clip showing scenes from around Kuching; a place I call home for the last 4 years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXF3C69MN1A

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Eric Ling]

Oooookay, it’s a bright hot Sunday & I am all dressed for the beach with my sandals and shades …….

But I did better; managed to get Grand Master Lew Kao Chai to a garden park for some outdoor shooting.

GM Lew is the first traditional CKF Master I met when I first arrived in Kuching and instantly I knew I was in the company of greatness.

A soft-spoken upright and highly respectable CKF veteran, GM Lew is precisely the kind of “Da Xia” I read about in my childhood days.

GM Lew is now the custodian of an unusual style of Hakka boxing known as “Chu Gar Fu Zhuang” or “Chu Gar Tiger Boxing”.

This is another “Sanchin” based system that is not seen by many outside of this part of the world.

Every opportunity I get, I’ll try and pick GM Lew’s brain and “steal” a little of his art form.

Got him here doing the entry empty-hand and a staff form. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WqOy-wd0tE

Another clip with me and CMAA’s Calvin Kong and Foo Ming going through some techniques in preparation for a video trailer that we are shooting for promo purposes. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ft6fKzyyqYE

Errrhhhh, you’ll find a couple of Lohan, Ancestral Crane and monkey boxing techniques in the rough…

I will post from the actual trailer when it’s done….

Now for some Carlsberg …it’s a Sunday afterall…...

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Eric Ling]

:D :D :D monkeying around http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Fbn92jwwNU :D :D :D

[ironox]

Hello Eric. Thankyou for introducing everyone to kung fu styles that are new to us in the west a real eye opener. The september event will be impressive i'm sure.

Hope we can meet up cos we comming home for Gawai at the end of may.


Regards sean

[TenTigers]

hey Eric,
"Monkeying around" was great-would have loved to see more.
-partly to hear the rest of the Steve Vai song:)

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Sean, nice to see you here again. Will be writing to you soon regarding this upcoming event. I might not be in Kuching during Gawai so “Happy Gawai” to you and your family. Just remember; if you tuak don’t drive and if you drive don’t tuak.:p

Ten, sorry, my files are with my designer at this time but I will be shooting some more monkey techniques sometimes this week, so… and we will have Mr. Vai again..

In one of my earlier messages, I spoke about Tuan Haji; well I met with Tuan’s son, Abbas, earlier this evening for some Silat actions.

I was treated to an hour long session which included empty-hand bunga, weapon forms and 2 men drills.

Boy these guys are hard-hitting. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgZszjj73Gc

Known as “Silat Helang Putih Perkasa” or “Mighty White Eagle” this is a style founded by Tuan Haji blending all the Silat styles that he was schooled in.

In the clip, you’ll see Abbas in the second still shot and he is an outstanding player.

Says a lot about his father who trained him.

Apart from being solid Silat players, these folks are so pleasant; what more could I ask for?

I will be posting more details about this Silat in our website which should be live any time this week.

Warmest Regards.

Eric

Ps. Ten, got Mr.Vai again enjoying some “Blowfish”…..:D

[oasis]

hi eric,
thanks for posting the silat clips. very interesting stuff! good job on your efforts to document different arts

[Eric Ling]

hi eric,
thanks for posting the silat clips. very interesting stuff! good job on your efforts to document different arts

Thank you Mr. not illusion from barren desert - am I missing something here :D

Now for some CLF .......http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b56-nWak5nY

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[oasis]

the clf youtube link didnt work. can you repost?

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Got 2 more clips here:-

1. This is taken from a Sarawak Tourism Board’s promotional VCD. Really like this production and the concept that “Sarawak is Asia best kept secret”; applies not only to the natural wonders but also the fighting arts that are practiced here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJjxf7iVq60

2. Another clip from last week’s shoot showing the boys, Calvin and Foo Ming from CMAA, rehearsing an Ancestral Crane technique. We do a whole series of chin-na/throwing techniques all embedded in the concept “Old Man Seizes Crane”. This concept runs through many of the forms that we do in Fuzhou Ancestral Crane. This particular technique makes use of the “push/pull” co-ordination that you sometimes find in Tai Chi. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-m3xxFBWm8


Spent the morning meeting with Tuan Haji in his office to talk about the upcoming event.

The result is to have a stronger Silat representation in the event and Tuan has agreed to personally invite Silat Masters from West Malaysia and Indonesia to join us for a half a day presentation of Silat in action.

To say that I am thrilled is really an understatement…..

Warmest Regards.

Eric

ps ... the above link is okay ....:)

[oasis]

thanks for the choy lay fut clip. very nice. i see he also has a dvd set too.

[Eric Ling]

:) :) :)

And now, since it’s gonna be Chinese New Year soon, here’s wishing everyone “Kong Xi Fa Cai” and may you have surplus or “fishes” in the years to come…..

A lion dance clip from the Wuzu group in Johor West Malaysia….

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnDZZAHfZqs


:) :) :)

[Hendrik]

:) :) :)

And now, since it’s gonna be Chinese New Year soon, here’s wishing everyone “Kong Xi Fa Cai” and may you have surplus or “fishes” in the years to come…..

A lion dance clip from the Wuzu group in Johor West Malaysia….

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnDZZAHfZqs


:) :) :)



Happy Chinese New Year Brother!

[TenTigers]

Gong Hey Fat Choy!
hey Eric, got any Hung-Ga? I recently have been exploring the deper areas of Hung Kuen with a sevety-something old man from Guangzhao-Luk Ah=Choy lineage. I would love to see some Hung Kuen.

[Shaolin Master]

Gongxi Facai - Happy Prosperous New Year All!

Eric,
Something that may bring some memories "Nanquan Beitui" at Damodian at Sionglim:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axVs8Rl-uN4

Although not MAG related but enjoy some other postings:

Ying - Hard Qigong:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjAqjO08ZoM

Chen Style Small Fram Taijiquan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=berKbD7qsYM

Ancestral Crane
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7iBK9T0qW8

Enjoy the new year festivities everyone.

Kind Regards
Wu Chanlong

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Ten, I will be visiting GM Lam in Sibu again soon to shoot his Hungga. GM Lam acquired his Hungga from 3 separate teachers and so far I only got superficial glimpses. My next visit should be an eye-opener; I understand he also does Lama Pai Pak Hok ……

I do have a bunch of DVDs from mainland but I really don’t think they are what you want to see.

My upcoming West Malaysia and Singapore trip will include Hungga stops so we’ll see what turns up.

I am trying to contact an old school mate from waaaay back. His grandfather, from Canton, did Hungga and if I remember correctly, not from the Huang Fei Hung’s line.

My friend took over his grandfather’s system. And there are the “Kwong Chow” and “Hong Mo San” groups in Singapore that I would be calling on. These 2 are bastions of Hungga there. The other would be “LingNam” but I got to get to some friends to connect..

Brother Hendrik and Wu Chan Long, Shaolin greetings to the both of you. May all your wishes all come true and may you stay forever young ….and may I get to see Bob Dylan live at least once in my lifetime…:cool:

Shaolin Master, the “Ancestral Crane” clip – shouldn’t it be “Vibrating or Shaking Crane”?? Different “Zhong” right?

“Southern Fists Northern Kicks” aarrgghh brings back memories of training in Toa Payoh Safra tennis court.

Except that the form looks a little different in the clip.. You do this form?

You know Ah Joo created the form right? After this we do “Lian Huay” or “Lotus” and then the Lohans….

I am teaching some of the CMAA boys here the Lohans and I am planning to shoot some for posting.

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Shaolin Master]

Hi Eric,

Regarding Crane....yes transliteration of Zong (縱) as in Trembling/Vibrating/Shaking would be best although ..... Zong 宗 (ancestral) is of the same. Although 縱，駿，蹤，宗 are all reference to the same art (縱身鶴法)....I will replace the Ancestral for consistency.

Regarding Nanquan Beitui, of course we know Ah Joo made it up (amongst many other things).....we do it slightly different (and a little more crisp).....the clip is not necessarily the best version.

Yes we also have Lianhua and others. Would be interesting to see some of the CMAA boys attempting some of the luohans.

Regards
Wu Chanlong

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Shaolin Master, I think it’s important to be cautious about names.

Zong or Shaking Crane is a stand alone style acknowledging a different historical origination from most other Cranes.

Zong, the characteristic, underscores most Fukien/Fuzhou Cranes.

Zonghe or Ancestral Crane is another distinctive branch of Fuzhou Crane. GM Dong Mu Yau’s Fuzhou Crane comes very close to the ZongHe that I do.

Grand Ancestor White Crane or Taizu BaiHe is yet another branch and I think this is also identified as “Ancestral Crane” by many….

I’ve been corresponding with some Wing Chun folks and I thought the next clip is relevant to our investigation.

My stand has always been to look at the “engine” rather than external expression when confronted with a comparative situation.

We got Wing Chun’s Single Bong or Wing Hand explained by a mainland Wing Chun teacher. (In Cantonese…sorry).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_jBKFlCa9I

Besides the obvious semblance in names, this teacher could be explaining White Crane’s Wing Hand as far as I am concerned.

One of our objectives in the September event is to interact and compare notes and examine hypothesis.

Besides the Wing Chun group, there is another Karate group keen to work with us on Karate and White Crane relations. They do their versions of “8 linking steps” and “28 steps” and I got Sifu Robert Siew’s style besides my own White Crane’s family in Singapore coming out to join me…

Me, I just wanna to see everybody’s Sanchin, SanZhan, Sam Bo Jin, Lohan Gung and Tit Sin Kune or any other forms that teaches breathing/jin co-ordination, sounds, and emotion triggers…..

And all the diverse 8 linking steps that you do whether long bridge or short bridge…

Aaarrrrgggghhhh, 2nd day of Chinese New Year and I am talking Kung Fu !!!:D :D :D

Warmest Regards.

Eric.

Ps. Shaolin Master, I did SaoLim in Namyang long before I found Ah Joo in Safra…

[Shaolin Master]

Eric,

Once I return to Singapore (Mid-Year approx)...maybe you can enlighten and share with me on the different Namyang Fuzhou cranes and of your other Saolim experiences :)

Regards
Wu Chanlong

[Eric Ling]

Hi Shaolin Master,

You’re on and you’re buying the Carlsbergs….chili crabs, sotong goreng….:D :D :D

But before we do that, what’s your email; the one that you use regular; got something private for you…

You know where to find me but just in case, white88crane@yahoo.com

Ten, got a Hungga clip here featuring the form Sei Mun or 4 gates.

Don’t know Hungga well but I don’t think I’ve heard or seen anyone outside of the Sibu group doing this..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Chr8ELLmCQw

You familiar?

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Shaolin Master]

Hi Eric,

I have sent you an email. Please respond to the address that I have sent it with.

Cheers,
Wu Chanlong
PS: One day I'll take to the mainland where Carlsburgs won't do.....the Baiijiu would take the lead.....:)

[TenTigers]

Hi Eric,
I have never seen that set, although it has a few similarities to the set I was taught, which I was told is an amalgamation of Dan Gung Fuk Fu,Seurng Gung Fuk Fu, and Fu Hok Seurng Ying. It is amazing that once you get out of Hong Kong, all Hung Kuen is totally different, as far as sequence. Technique is technique.
Rik

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Rik, I know exactly what you’re saying.

Technique is technique no matter what we call them but the delivery is the element that set us apart.

If you keep to traditional ways, besides techniques/principles and blah blah blah, the “flavor” of delivery is, imho, the “signature” of your style and in some cases lineage.

Most of us take after our Sifus. Spent enough time with one and we’re likely to come out moving, in many ways, mirroring them.

Also why we say, in Asia, that to study kung fu, your Sifu got to “mould” you.

I often have problem in articulating this “flavor” thing, not only in written English form, but even with my own students here.

To teach them my White Crane proper, I got to somehow pass on the “Fuzhou” touch over.

This could be frustrating at times.

Now here's a clip of the Wing Chun form, Chum Kiu or Sinking Bridge. The Sifu explained that his version is “sinking” and not “seeking” and went on to illustrate the “sinking” concept.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCbp-Xvzsfg

Sort of like Hsing Yi’s “crushing”.

And very much like Ancestral Crane’s “sinking elbow” .

Really looking at his rendition, the “White Crane” flavor is so pronounced.

To my eyes at least and you know me and my Carlsberg thingy……

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

I spoke earlier on about shooting the 2 Masters of Hakka Tiger Boxing here in Kuching; Grandmaster Liew Kao Chai and Kong Shu Ming.

Well, I did GM Liew and today, with a little time available, I revisited GM Kong to learn more about his Hakka Suppressing Tiger style

Well, got to say that of all the Hakka Masters I touched hands with, GM Kong stands out.

Instead of the more “linear” executions, GM Kong’s method is more “circular”, comparatively speaking.

Centering on the nucleus concept of “shock – deceive – control (subdue) “, GM Kong presented a series of combinations that really took me off guard.

Short range in focus, his “deceiving” is the sting that left me in vulnerable positions for his finishers.

Still moving awkwardly because of his leg injuries, GM Kong did 3 forms and went on the explain principles and concepts; for that I am so thankful.

And as expected, I was asked to do a little reciprocal Kung Fu to keep the ying-yang balance.

So again my fav style – White Crane and I took the opportunity to talk a little about the “sinking elbow” that we do in Ancestral Crane.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4zNSYIA4jU

Warmest Regards.

Eric

Ps….in the clip, we are discussing in some Mandarin and most parts, in that strange-sounding (even to me) dialect called “Fuzhou”.

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Here a clip that might be easier for some of you to follow the verbal explanations; most parts in Mandarin with a tiny weeny bit of “Fuzhou” used when Mandarin fails to carry the point across.

Here we got GM Kong asking to see my Fuzhou Ancestral Crane and I showed him the first fighting principle in our system; going to the fourth door or out of direct line of attack.

Simple illustrations and for someone like GM Kong, I think, they are child’s play.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spNNcNkCzhA

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Eric Ling]

more Wing Chun ....

Palms including the "Snake hands".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH_L4xN1omI

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Spoke to 2 mainland White Crane giants these last couple of days to confirm their appearances in the event.

• Fujian Yong Chun White Crane’s Pan Chen Miao – thanks to Martin Watts, I am able to invite this highly respected Sifu.

• Fuzhou Whooping Crane’s Ruan Dong – we spoke briefly about our Whooping Cranes; Ruan Laoshi’ Whooping Crane, is in theory, the same Whooping Crane that we do in Singapore. If only I understand his form of Fuzhou better; Ruan Laoshi speaks with a very heavy “Mingchiang” Fuzhou accent and I am more “Putian”.

So at this point, I am certain to have both Pan and Ruan Laoshi attendance and I will be talking to Taiwan’s Feeding Crane family next.

Hungga clips featuring 2 different mainland teachers:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XqYFkVHP9o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohWPYAaEIWk

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

After a few attempts, finally got Feeding Crane’s Sifu Liu Chang I on the line.

We spent about an hour talking on the phone and besides him coming in September, we spoke about White Crane in general.

It appears that Sifu Liu is making terrific progress in expanding his style in France and in the coming months a French company is visiting him in Taiwan to do a documentary.

We also spoke about collaborating on some publishing projects to investigate all the Southern White Cranes and this is something that I will be looking forward to…..

Now if only I could find that Hakka Crane that I’ve been hearing about …… arrrrghhh…..

Got a very nice little clip here to share; Shaolin Luohan very well described.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cr3q4vhzr58

Love the portion where the presenter illustrates his “shaking’ power; something you don’t really expect from a typical Northern style – standing in one spot to generate jin. More often you would see them moving to create the power for their techniques…..

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Looks like I will be in Kuching for another week or so before I start out for Singapore and West Malaysia to talk to Kung Fu Masters there.

Got a press conference scheduled here in Kuching and a VIP (a government Minister) will be invited to officially launch our website and you know… all that jazz….

Got another clip here to share; Pan Nam Wing Chun “Bil Jee” or “Mountain Cat Fingers”. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_geVJUH8xks

Well, I am aware of the debate going on about origin, lineage and methodology in the Wing Chun circle; not my place to make any comment – I don’t do Wing Chun.

My interest in Wing Chun is the recorded relation with White Crane and IMHO, this connection shows up very clearly in the clip.

Apart from the “obvious” Crane techniques throughout the whole form, here I also see something else very close to my Ancestral Crane – every technique done in sets of 3s.

Our “koon kor” (Fuzhou) or “Fists Song” has a line that says;

“Crane washing body to pray to the Buddha 3 times”.

And the form has the same “does every technique 3 times” practice.

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Eric Ling]

More from the same VCD – 2 applications from Bil Jee form.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNmA1NGCKaE

The 1st technique – folding elbow take down is the same exact technique that we do in Ancestral Crane’s “Babulien”.

If I am not wrong this is also found in Flying Crane’s Babulien.

The 2nd is “Leading Cattle across River” except that in this case it’s done with one hand.

The White Crane’s version is done with 2, one at the wrist and the other at the attacker’s elbow.

Warmest Regards.

Eric

And oh yes, happy "Chap Go Mare" or "15th day of CNY" to all.

Carlsberg's time ....:) :) :)

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Remember Master Chang and his very distinctive “FoJia” or Buddhist Grand Ancestor Boxing?

A few days back, Master Chang and his associates held a traditional CKF performance/competition at a local temple, “See Lin Kong”, here in Kuching. This is also when they did “heavy” weapons competition.

FoJia TaiZhu Quan is very intriguing as far as I am concerned.

I do TaiZhu or Tai Chor (Fukinese) and for the longest time, my thought is that the style is, more or less, a merger of:-

• Northern Kung Fu reflected in the Lohan that is found at the advanced level. Characteristic features like long bridges and one stance/one technique all spell “Northern”. Not strange considering that all historical records point to a Northern beginning from Song TaiZhu.

• Fukien Crane – This is almost to be expected if we look at the evolution timeline. Fukien Yong Chun White Crane was a strong influence and bearing in mind the geographical proximity of “Quanzhou” or “Zhaung Chew” where Fukien TaiZhu was spawned, cross-pollination must have been the norm.

• Southern Tiger – This is probably a later day’s inclusion and some lines dropped the tiger element altogether. I am from GM Quek Yong Hor/Master Teo Choon Teck’s line and we still do a pure tiger form known as “5 Tigers Turning River” or “Ngo Hor Huan Kang”.

In fact, I used to think that TaiZhu is the Fukien version of Canton’s “FuHok Sueng Ying” which, if you think about it, consists mainly of Lohan, tiger and crane.

The one thing that has been bothering me is the 5-movements salutation that starts all my TaiZhu forms; almost identical to Wuzu (5 Ancestors) which, depending on which camp you talk to, could either signify the 5 component styles or 5 Elements philosophical concepts.

We have neither in TaiZhu.

Encountering Master Chang and his Hakka Grand Ancestor here in Sarawak could be the source of some answers as far as my research into TaiZhu is concerned.

His style has a stronger “Northern” feel in execution interspersed with some observable “Southern” techniques. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFCBorOv3mI

In the coming months, I will be spending more time with this very knowledgeable Hakka Master and hopefully find more answers to all my TaiZhu questions.

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Eric Ling]

More from Hakka Grand Ancestor Boxing.

This is, I think, their version of “SanZhan” or “3 Battles”. At the very least, it follows the “3 steps front and 3 steps back” outline that describe so many Fukien/Hakka Southern Styles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SlyjJ6YiBI

Notable:-

• The Hakka flavor of this form is very perceptible. Got “Saat” written all over; straight line pursuing manner of execution, in the words of a good friend and CKF researcher.

• Whipping mode which highly imply Crane’s influence as opposed to the “twist-lock” style common in other styles.

• “Ren Dao Shou Dao” or body and hands in unison which, in my book, says “Northern”.

Taizhu presented in a Hakka manner, I looooove it…..:p :p :p

I will try and shoot some of my students doing my Fukien version of Taizhu in the next few days for contrast.

This will make the stuff I am talking about clearer ….. I hope….

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[TenTigers]

Nevermind that, did you see the size of that Tiger Fork? I want one!!!!

[Eric Ling]

Nevermind that, did you see the size of that Tiger Fork? I want one!!!!


Arrrrgghhhh Grasshopper, don’t be looking at the pointing finger when you should be looking at the moon.

Now, when you’re ready, snatch the pebble from my hand….

Or something like that … are they going to rerun the old “Kung Fu” series :D

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Another version of Wing Chun Bil Jee http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTrR6_-LKkk

After the form, the Sifu goes on to demonstrate “sinking elbow” and palm training.

In Cantonese, the Sifu talks about “whipping” like a cane …. Now now, where have I heard this before……

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Had another Silat shoot last evening.

This time we got “Hidayah Melayu” or “Malay Inspiration” and it was nothing that I would expect from a Silat.

The clips are being processed;) now and I will be posting them later.

In the meantime, a little CLF http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhI8WhO7mWc

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Well here it is – Hidayah Melaya or” Malay Inspiration”; a really nice name for a Silat style.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hLzPBw3Mxk

Again thanks to Tuan Haji of Rumpun Silat Sarawak, I am able to film and share this.

Next, Tuan has kindly arranged for an Indonesian style – Silat Betawi for some videos.

Hidayah Melayu, to me, is different, from most of the other Silats that I’ve seen in my part of the world.

Looking forward to explore this style deeper to get a better understanding of what lies underneath…

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Infrazael]

I would really love to participate in this. Would we provide for our own hotels/housing and lodging then?

Thanks

[Eric Ling]

I would really love to participate in this. Would we provide for our own hotels/housing and lodging then?

Thanks


I know I said this before; please wait for our official website which will carry full details. Slight delay because we want to time it with a press conference here and besides the website, we are also working on other collateral materials like video trailer, brochures etc etc..

This is a “Tourism Ministry” endorsed event and integrated into the “Visit Malaysia Year” promo campaign, we need to be sure that everything is done up to requirements.

Ooookay, to the next clip….http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IziFydJvIuE

Got Audio Slave’s “Shape of things to come” in the back, this is what I hope to see in Sarawak’s traditional MA scene.

In the clip, you’ll see a young player doing WuZu stick brilliantly.

One of my motivations is to re-kindle the arts among the younger generation around here. Many of the Masters I interacted with also spoke strongly on this matter.

Perhaps with more traditional MA activities …..

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Noticed that someone gave the previous clip a “poor” rating; the clip with the young girl doing WuZu stick.

Well, maybe I’ll be fortunate enough to see this someone’s stick skills and learn something.

So if you are reading this, please do me the honor…..youtube is so convenient these days….

Got another clip here to share – some basics from “Hap Gar” or “Xia Jia”.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgcWY7eOyr4

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Eric Ling]

Another short clip from my Shaolin Lohan collection :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbVIIYBOsh8

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Another view of my favorite Wing Chun’s form – Bil Jee especially this version from GM Pan Nam. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBrIuxxk8ec

Like I said before, imho, this is the form if you’re looking for ties with Southern White Crane.

Somewhere in the middle of the form, there’s a technique that is done extensively in White Crane; the double spear hands or “Twin Cranes Leaving Nest”.

Interestingly, this technique is done in Southern Taizu with clenched fists and striking using the wrists; 2 curled-in fists along the centerline, almost exactly the same in execution and application.

In Taizu, this is known as “Lohan Hitting Bell”, this technique is also done in Wuzu and I believe, they call them “leper’s hands” or “Tai Kor Chiu”.

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[TenTigers]

not working

[Eric Ling]

Now http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBrIuxxk8ec

:) :) :)

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Another Silat style appearing in the Sept event – Silat Betawi (Batavia, now Jakarta) Indonesia.

Watching the forms (bunga), I keep thinking they look so Chinese. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjI6qtYkXhw

Later, when I spoke to Tuan Haji, I was told that along with Silat Hylam, Silat Betawi has strong relation with fighting arts that came with the Chinese settlers in Indonesia.

Btw, in the clip, the first pic you see is Tuan Haji and yours truly.

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Hendrik]

Hi everybody,

Another view of my favorite Wing Chun’s form – Bil Jee especially this version from GM Pan Nam. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBrIuxxk8ec

Like I said before, imho, this is the form if you’re looking for ties with Southern White Crane.

Somewhere in the middle of the form, there’s a technique that is done extensively in White Crane; the double spear hands or “Twin Cranes Leaving Nest”.

Interestingly, this technique is done in Southern Taizu with clenched fists and striking using the wrists; 2 curled-in fists along the centerline, almost exactly the same in execution and application.

In Taizu, this is known as “Lohan Hitting Bell”, this technique is also done in Wuzu and I believe, they call them “leper’s hands” or “Tai Kor Chiu”.

Warmest Regards.

Eric



Brother Eric,

Excellent job to have all the excellent clip share here.

If you some days see the Arrow Palm set of Yik Kam lineage the you might see it is very very white crane.

Seeing the art of your lineage in the previous clips.

the Yik Kam WCK lineage according to my sifu the concept of this art is a side enter to center door type. Eventhough it looks like side door art, but it is using side/slant enter to the center door and destroy center door. eventhought, later , some how some got evolve into side door art.


I am thinking of taking a clip for the opening and closing Salutation of Yik Kam lineage next week. Perhaps I could email to you if you are interested, so you could youtube it. also, I am thinking to release the SLT part 1 a little later...


Best Regards
Hendrik

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Brother Hendrik – thanks. Go ahead; send your stuff to white88crane@yahoo.com

I met with another old Master today, through the effort of Sifu Yokar Tan ,Chin Woo Sarawak.

Master Boon, a Fukien Shaolin boxer, is 75 this year and nothing in the way he moves say that.

His style, unexpectedly, impresses me as “Hakka”; short hands and linear with techniques that I would usually associate with Hakka type boxing.

Later, with a staff, he was all over me.

Hmmm... Now I understand why old Kung Fu Masters like to say “Empty fists belong to the young, sticks go to the elders”.

Well like in many cases before, I was obliged to show a little of my Kung Fu and this time I did a Southern Tai Chor or Grand Ancestor form we call “Liao Chin”.

This is one of the more “Crane” form in our Tai Chor training. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kTDV_I9aAg

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Got some old footage here to share.

Taken in 2005 during a Chinese New Year Dinner, this is one of the few occasions that you’ll find me without my baseball cap.

In front of thousand of guests, all dressed up in my “White Crane” uniform, I just thought the cap doesn’t fly…

I did an abridged version of Whooping Crane’s Sanchin; common to not do an entire form during such a performance and later I did some applications with my Polish student.

The first few movements, although looking very “Wing Chun”, are actually from a form using “Hundred Birds Leaving Nest” principle in my Ancestral Crane.

Very Chinesey way of say fast flowing hands. In Denver, where I taught for a couple of years, I called them “busy hands”.

The whole idea is take opponent’s centerline and hit him repeatedly. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9COem96Urw

Wait, that’s Wing Chun ……..

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

After a few days of scurrying around, we finally held our press conference this morning and the guest-of-honor was none other than the Minister of Tourism and 2nd Finance Minister, YB Dato Sri’ Wong Soon Koh.

All the major press was there and one local TV station and we thought we stage a little performance besides all the ceremonies.

I was fortunate to have:-
• GM Lew Kao Chai
• Master Liew Joon Mew
• Master Xiong De Lu
• Master Chang Kui Chang
• Sifu Chang Kui Hui
• CMAA athletics
• Silat from Rumpun Silat Sarawak

To put up a performance program.

Got a clip here showing Master Xiong De Lu from 5 Ancestors and me (again) doing some CKF applications.

A couple of my Crane, Tai Chor and ending with a Shaolin Lohan technique. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPuavhqKI44

Will post more of today’s show in the next couple of days.

Warmest Regards.

Eric






.

[gojumaster]

Eric,

Congratulations on the press conference. I am quite looking forward to the September event!

Best Regards,

Russ Smith


Hi everybody,

After a few days of scurrying around, we finally held our press conference this morning and the guest-of-honor was none other than the Minister of Tourism and 2nd Finance Minister, YB Dato Sri’ Wong Soon Koh.

All the major press was there and one local TV station and we thought we stage a little performance besides all the ceremonies.

I was fortunate to have:-
• GM Lew Kao Chai
• Master Liew Joon Mew
• Master Xiong De Lu
• Master Chang Kui Chang
• Sifu Chang Kui Hui
• CMAA athletics
• Silat from Rumpun Silat Sarawak

To put up a performance program.

Got a clip here showing Master Xiong De Lu from 5 Ancestors and me (again) doing some CKF applications.

A couple of my Crane, Tai Chor and ending with a Shaolin Lohan technique. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPuavhqKI44

Will post more of today’s show in the next couple of days.

Warmest Regards.

Eric






.

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,


Russ – thanks. See you here in September.

The 2nd clip from the Press Conference.

This time, we got :-

• Lions welcoming Sarawak’s Tourism Minister & 2nd Finance Minister, YB Dato’ Sri Wong Soon Koh. The lady standing next to him is Ms. Christina Foo, my partner in MY Martial Arts Sdn Bhd. “MY” – internet shorthand for Malaysia. This is the company organizing this September’s event.

• Master Liew Joon Mew – Chu Gar Internal Jin Praying Mantis.

• Sifu Chang Kui Hui – Hakka Grand Ancestor Boxing.

• Grand Master Lew Kao Chai – Hakka Tiger Boxing.

• Master Chang Kui Chang – Hakka Grand Ancestor Boxing.

• Tuan Haji’s son, Abbas – Rumpun Silat Sarawak.

• Yap Foo Ming – Chinese Martial Art Association.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdMZuxNtjdo

Well, I will be flying back to my homeland, Singapore, in the next couple of days to talk to Singapore Masters.

Anyone of you in Singapore and would like to meet up, just let me know.

Will be there for a week or so.

From there, I will proceed to Penang and KL for the return flight.

It’s been a while since I been back home – time to catch up on some chili crabs, prawn noodles …….. and some White Crane kung fu…..

Warmest Regards.

Eric

Ps – wu-ji thanks for that clip, GM Chua Geok Beng’s Ngo Chor right?
Looks so Tai Chor to me …..

[Eric Ling]

Hi Wu-ji,

Just “Eric” please….

Singkawang Chong, are you refering to “Hakka Praying Mantis” Chong?

How are you related to him? I’ve heard so much about this gentleman since I first got here from Singapore.

Quite a legend around here as a matter of fact; with hands faster than the eyes can follow I was told.

The 2 Masters in the clip are not related to Singkawang Chong.

Wu-ji, if you don’t want to talk here, please use white88crane@yahoo.com

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Eric Ling]

Hi Wu-ji,

Sorry if I missed your mail before.

Thanks for your latest mail. I think we are talking about the same person. After Singkawang, he resettled in Sarawak, mainly Kuching, and he taught some folks here including the local law enforcement forces.

I met up with a couple of people who claimed to be his students but I always get different accounts of what Chong taught.

Mostly, they talked about his extreme quickness in entering and hitting you machine-gun style. The first time his name was mentioned is when I was doing a little of my Ancestral Crane’s “busy hands” in front of another White Crane Master and he remarked that I move a little like Chong.

Later when I started traveling to other towns here, I got bits and pieces about his feats; apparently worshipped by the local Chinese for his kung fu skills.

Are you familiar with his kung fu background? Is there someone in Singkawang that I could talk to for more info?

I’m okay with traveling there to do a documentary about this gentleman.

As far as Wuzu is concerned, the closer I get, the more I start to see “White Crane” and “Tai Chor” embedded.

Besides your lineage, I am also acquainted with folks from GM Kan Teck Guan and GM Chee Kim Thong line.

Especially in GM Kan’s line, the “White Crane” is unmistakable with entire Yong Chun White Crane forms maintained intact.

I was talking to Martin Watts’ teacher GM Pan Chen Miaow recently and we spoke briefly about GM Kan.

In Yong Chun, folks still remember GM Kan as a Yong Chun White Crane master.

I am curious, how different is your Wuzu compared to GM Kan?

Or how much of Yong Chun White Crane is found in your line?

Warmest Regards.

Eric
:) :) :)

[Lau]

Eric,

Thank you very much for the Hakka tiger boxing clip. I really loved that and I am greatly impressed with his skills. The way the back leg is kept almost straight is something I find very important in the way I try to use power generation principles.

Regards, Lau

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Wu-ji / Lau

Thank you both….

Lau, couldn’t agree with you more. GM Lew got to be seen to be believed. His power, as far as I am concerned, is something you won’t expect for someone of his frame and size. Initially, I thought that I could take him with my speed since he appears “tighter” when he exerts. But was I surprised when I touch hands with him. He power is really “short” without much preparatory moves; something that I would normally associate with staying “loose” or “shong” like m White Crane. Because of this “shortness”, he was able to match me easy with the way he moves.

I suspect this has something to do with his basics in power generation. What you said kind of supports that belief.

Any chance of seeing how you do it? You are “Bak Mei” right?

Wu-ji, I will be traveling to Singkawang again one way or another. If you could just give me some leads…. The whole town speaks either Kek or Bahasa Indon; not really my strength hahaha…

Don’t know about the “kayu besi” or “belian” here in Sarawak but someone did tell me that you don’t want to take a hit from him and it doesn’t matter where.

Yes, most Ngo Chor here is from GM Kan line. The “White Crane” flavor is, like you say, very clear. I have even seen some forms that resemble some Fuzhou Cranes.

The frame is more or less Tai Chor and imho even their Lohan comes across as Tai Chor with many techniques appearing to have “Northern” origin.

Have you seen “Si Men” / “4th Door” or “Ngo kwan” / “5 stages” from Southern Tai Chor?

Looking at your form, I think you might find these 2 forms interesting.

Well, like I said I will be back in Singapore next week and one of my stops is my Tai Chor school where I hope to film some of my seniors and Sifu.

I will be posting from there once I got them down on video.

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[leeky77]

Eric,
Seems like you have contacts from a lot of schools still teaching traditional kung fu. Just wanna ask whether you got any contacts around KL or Selangor area?
I am from Penang and learn some basic Hung Gar and Ermei from my sifu. But working in Selangor now so trying to find a real traditional school. My interest is only on traditional kung fu. But I found that most school now is teaching wushu for competition. Too bad I'm not staying in Sarawak. Hakka kung fu is my best choice.

[Firehawk4]

Have you herd of Shatung Black Tiger by Master Tjoa Khek Kiong ? He wrote a Book on Shantung Black Tiger with Don F.Draeger . The style said to be practiced in Indoneasia and Malaysia i am wondering about what forms it has . I also herd there was a Shantung Leopard style . And the History of Shantung Black Tiger ? Robert

[Hendrik]

classical YCBHQ's power generation, especially evident from this master's sin jun ka: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5MRWO9Pw6k . She is great, by the way. Please say my highest regard when you see her again.



She is Certainly excellent!

IMHO,
In the Yik Kam or Cho family WCK lineage, The type of power generation as She describe could be seen in the Jin Cheong or Arrow Palm set. also the Thousand or Cien which is one of the 13 hands...etc

The power generation of the Jin Cheong set included the Elbow Sinking, colabone area, the full body shock... so it is very very very White Crane. IMHO


Best Regards
Hendrik

[Hendrik]

Hendrik: in my humblest opinion, what she explained is what I understand as the essence of Wing Chun's Biu Jee (sp?) form.

I see WC using horizontal and vertical power generation like YCBHQ, but in a more compact framework. But you are the WC master and not me, I just see it from an outsider's perspective.






Wu Ji,


Indeed, you are right!



Could you please define the horizontal and vertical power generation? So we could compare note?

IN my lineage, Bian, whip, is horizontal type of power.



IMHO,
Yes, what she explain is an essence of WCK's power generation which is related to the White Crane's Inch power. This type of power generation DNA certainly is not the Hung Gar Iron Wire Type.

and, there is another component from the Emei 12 Zhuang which is softer and fine tune WCK ( using the medirians flow's path way for the fine tune. that make SLT unique )


However, What she explain is often in general lost in the present day of WCK due to the extreme of Fixing and pressing the elbow in the center line position. That damage the ability of these collar bone area type of power. not to mention the extreme of fixing the elbow into the center line cause the Yin medirians to be stagnated.


IMHO,
and it is a fact that the clasical set from the Red Boat Era, such as the old version of SLT, the set start with training the holizontal and vertical power. Now a day, for some lineage after the localization evolution, the section of holizontal power is retain in Biu Jee set but not explicit in the SLT/SNT set.

also Now a day these teaching are fade away, even in my own lineage these stuffs is fading. Now a day, some might still recite the old writing, such as whip out horizontal power but then the actual understanding is lost.

So, checking on the horizontal and vertical power while I was doing research into the root of WCK, are an essence indicator to know how old the set possible is.



Thanks

Best Regards
Hendrik



BTW.

Which part of Indo you from? I was from P.Siantar, left for decades.
Decade ago, my father generation, There were some White Craner in P.siantar. There is where I come to contact with White Crane basic ... Start with those Boo Ding Boo Bah Stance (not Ding shape not Eight stance)

But, the most well known White Craner is from BinJai. Dont know if they passed down their art and how they are doing.


I also have heard from the older generation that, in the 50's 60's my sukong Sek Ko Sam's students in Sumatra-ut area some times got into friendly competitions with the White Craners and whoever did wrong automatically knee infront of Damo image as soon as my sukong questioning their act.

Just some old stories in the Sum-ut area.

[Hendrik]

Hi Wuji,


"Horizontal/vertical" is a power generation with emphasis on sin jun ka, generating the power from the change of direction of ka in horizontal and or vertical axes. It is one of the ways of generating power. In my opinion, the nature of this kind of power is a "sharp" sensation, very effective for attack to head area and weak points.-------


Could you please translate Sin Jun Ka? Sin as body? Thanks.



Whipping is a different dimension. It is a soft-to-hard fajin that is good for penetrating strike. Hard-to-hard is good to block direct attack. Soft-to-soft is good for indirectly redirecting attack and also for grappling work. ------


Yup. Great view.



In my lineage's SLT, the first move is about " whipping arm whip out horizontal force Jing." So yes, it is not Lat (fujian force) but jing as written.





I believe that one inch power can be attained from many ways. Certainly, a very mature horizontal/vertical is one of them. -------


I see the one inch power have different types.
There is the one power with Sinking the elbow vertically with a shock drop (which I define it as vertical power) and there is the one power with the side chest/collar bone area with a shock trust (which I define it as horizontal power). And then there is the one which is power by the whole body by the tigh with a sharp body sinking and etc.






People often focus on styles in term of frames or forms. I believe that human body has only one head, one torso, 2 upper limbs and 2 lower limbs; they can only be moved in certain limited ways. -------

I agree with you to a large extend on this one.




Hence, what matters is the application of energy to generate power to attack and deflecting attacks. People can train in different forms, but I personally see that the applications of the frames are not that far from each other. A distinguishing quality that wins the fight for unarmed combat is often the quality of the power generation. I might be very biased, but a perfect defense prevents us from getting (much) injury. Yet, a strong attack is what is needed to finish a fight. ------


Yes, power generation is the number one essencial. how big the cannon one has make big different.

In fact, I am interested in doing power generation DNA research. I think that is meaningfull.

For example,
There are different definition of horizontal and vertical power. there is a saying that those untrain has vertical power and those who train has horizontal power...etc.


I grew up in Surakarta, Central Java. There is a strong influence of GM Liem Tjoei Kang and his successor GM Kwik Tjong Thay in this area (both happen to be my sukongs). At all given time, maybe each of them had had more than 3000 (revolving) students. Yet, very few finished their studies. My suhu, too, had had more than 1000 revolving students. Most of them have less than 2 years life-cycle. -----

Thanks for sharing.



My lesson started from classical ma bhe, but the serious lesson started with bu ding bu ba stance, which my suhu often just shorthanded it as pat kwa stance. This is the very basic of the fighting stance while the sam chien stance is the basic for power generation training. -------


Hahaha, we converge.

You see, in general today people didnt get past the sam chien stance understanding...




I heard from my suhu that before the 1965 G30S PKI, there were often friendly matches and demos. Many Hokjia masters with their excellent White Crane skills. Many decided to hide their skills afterward. Who knows if they ever pass their skills. What a grief loss. -------


1965 sep 30th is a day which changes the history forever. lots of sad and destruction....



Being a small city, my hometown also has a natural disadvantageous since most kids leave town for universities in big cities after they graduate from high school. So, naturally their training becomes interrupted, if not stopped at all. -------


Yup. Living condition has changes. Even when I was in Penang, condition changes and lesser and lesser trainers keep training.



I, personally, ended up in the U.S. and will reside permanently inhere because of my career.----------

Where do you live now? I am in San Jose Calif. May be we could meet some day.



Thanks for sharing.
Best Regards
Hendrik

[Eric Ling]

:) :) :)

Hi everybody,

Writing this from Singapore; have I got my work cut out for the next couple of weeks…

I visited GM Lee Kam Yuen, the current leader of the Zhou Jia (Chow Gar) group in his school and discussed this September’s event.

I was delighted when he consented to send a group from his style and he even helped me to contact some of his friends in Hungga, Pak Hok and Choy Lee Fut.

Visiting this school is always special to me; besides the warm hospitality, Zhou Jia is one of the few schools left still maintaining the old ways.

Apart from the rooftop open-air school, this style still teaches the traditional manner; something that I don’t get to see much of these days.

And it is at this rooftop school that I sat through a training session conducted by a young Sifu, Royce Ang.

At 31, this Sifu has already got 18 years of Zhou Jia training and looking at his students perform later, I can picture how good he must be….

In the clip, you’ll see Sifu Ang in full black in the first 2 pictures.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1Y8D7g67Ok

I got some Pak Hok videos with me but it will be another day or 2 before I post. This clips came from meeting with GM Mok of Singapore Pak Hok Pai.

Got meetings lined up all the way until Thursday before I travel to Penang, again to meet with Masters there….

Warmest Regards.

Eric

Ps. Notice that this thread is seeing some “deep” discussions; I will get more involved when I get back to Sarawak. At this time, I am moving and visiting and talking to Masters all over the place. Using an internet café to update…..

[TenTigers]

when I first saw the opening, I thought CLF, then it opened into Fu Hok Seung Ying Kuen of Hung-Ga, although a different interpetation. Very dynamic, nice stances,very exciting to see. I would love to see some application drills. Where is this line from? Any time I see Malaysian lines of Hung Kuen, it is an eye opener.

[Eric Ling]

:) :) :)

Hi everybody,

Rik, Chow Gar/Choy Lee Fut and Hung Gar are VERY attached, at least in the Singapore context..

The form that you see in the clip is called “Fai Shou Hung Kuen” or “Fast Hands Hung Fists”…

Quick updates:-

 Besides the Chow Gar, I have also visited “Lama Pai Pak Hok” and spoke extensively about working together to try and revive traditional Kung Fu in this region. The support I am getting from GM Mok is really heartening. Coincidentally, they are planning their 60th anniversary celebration right about the same time I am doing the gathering so it’s going to take some fine tuning in scheduling for us to work. Still I was given videos, magazines and we even tape GM Mok talking about Pak Hok – priceless stuff..

 Hung Seng Koon Singapore. This has got to be one of the oldest kung fu establishments here in Singapore. GM Seah, the current leader, is a very vibrant person even in his advanced age. At one point during our tea session, he stood up and starting demonstrating the kwa, pow and charp choy from all the different Cantonese styles. This man’s kung fu knowledge is really unbelievable. Hung Seng Koon is sending representatives to the September event. And knowing that I will be in KL West Malaysia soon, he even gave me contacts of Choy Lee Fut there… Again I left Hong Seng Koon with a bunch of old videos, magazines and other materials.

 Tai Chor Singapore. It’s always a delight for me to visit my teacher, Sifu Teo Choon Teck and talk about old times. Sifu Teo or Ah Teck, as usual is all kung fu, nothing stops this man, I swear. He confirmed his participation and I got a lot of catching up to do when he visits Sarawak.

 Northern Shaolin (Master Sebastian Soh’s line). I met Paul Yeo, one of the custodians of Master Soh’s Lohan since his passing. It’s never good to know of someone passing so young and in Master Soh’s case, a personal friend, it’s even tougher. I said this before and I still maintain that Sebastian Soh is one of the best Lohan boxers of this generation. This man got to be seen to be believed; his speed, power and agility are really exceptional. Unfortunately I don’t have videos but Paul did give me some old pictures and these I will treasure… I am expecting Paul to be in Sarawak this September.

 Fuzhou Cranes – Ironically, my own clansmen are the toughest to deal with sometimes; maybe Fuzhou are weird… Met with my Sihing and its look like I got to pay him a few more visits to convince him. Or I should just tie him up and ship him to Sarawak this September….


Folks, I will be posting videos and pics from the Singapore trip to share, just need a little time to make this happen. Only got my laptop and digital camera with me and it’s not exactly easy to work on the road…..

Now, I need some Carlsbergs or Tigers (since this is Singapore and all…)

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Weito]

Dear readers,

Looking forward to meet you guys in Kuching. Behind the screens it is clear to me what this conference will be look alike. Personally I am looking forward to discuss with you all relations between Saam Tzien, Saam Bo Jin and Tit Sin Kuen. In this unqiue event you will be able to view and feel the play and differences. For me this is the only way to judge. Maybe on detail level there might be some little differences, but the roots are from the same family.

I would say, if you have the change to be there, take the opportunity. Hopefully we can met and share.

With some colleagues we are also going to discuss the rattail stick. Keywords, concepts and details. As we all know, the stick (tree) have a special place in Southern Chinese Martial Arts.

Eric, be sure that Carlsberg Kuching is provided well, when we all come over. It will cost you a fortune!

Warmest regards,

Evert.

[Gru Bianca]

Hey Eric,

you really are a busy man....:) You must have forgotten my number;)
So you have spoken with Sibagong.....:) You should be there at their 60th anniversary, few people worth to see or meet ;)... then may be you can invite us to follow you to the wonderfull gathering you are organizing.... :D

Be Well

Luca

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Evert, Carlsberg? No problem. What you really want is “tuak”, the local natives' brew..ask Sean (Iron Ox PM).

Gru, thought you left town. Yap, spoke to your SibaGong and your name came up a few times...looks like you are becoming quite a “favorite son” within Pak Hok. Anyway, will be making my way up to Penang (29th March) so... I will be back before September and I will call you this time.:) :) :)

Your SiGong, Chan Kok Wah, besides appearing in your Pak Hok videos (given by your SibaGong) also showed up in some Hung Sing Koon materials..

Spent last evening in Kong Chow Hui Koon for about 2 hours in the company of many Kong Chow seniors and 2 Sifu from Jin Moo.

2 hours of Kung Fu small talk and naturally the conversation steered towards histories and current state of traditional kung fu.

I was told that Kong Chow, now 160 plus years old had seen Masters from Hung Gar, Chow Gar, CLF and even Bak Pai teaching in their premises. The whole place is like a little kung fu museum with old photos, weapons and other paraphernalia...

I was having a ball just shooting everything...

Later Sifu Leong (Kong Chow) passed me a VCD containing their forms, 2 men drills etc....

The outcome of this meeting is that we will be seeing folks from Kong Chow and Jin Moo gracing the event in September.

Well folks, I will be posting clips from all the meetings that I've had and stuff culled from the various videos given to me.

Should have more time in Penang to do this...

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Gru Bianca]

Hey Erik,

Me leaving town??? :) Noooo,..not any soon I think, especially now that I bought my first house :D in here....
Glad to hear you gathered some material from my Sibagong, make good use of it. ;) ..as for me becoming a "favorite son",..hummm....I don't really think so, I don't deserve it to be...I just like to give my respect to all my seniors,..I'm just one of the many :p

Next time you are planning to be back let me know in advance, send me a mail.

See you soon

Regards,

Luca

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Luca, you bought a house in Singapore? Good for you….just don’t you turn into a “kiasu” Singaporean; stay Italian …hahahaha….:D :D :D

Got another clip here to share – from Kong Chow Hui Koon’s archives.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STI4U4M1vLs

Courtesy of Sifu Leong Kwok Khuen who not only shared plenty about KC’s history, he also bought the beers and barbecued pork.

Sifu Leong, Carlsbergs on me this September in Kuching Sarawak.

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Gru Bianca]

ahhahahaha

Eric, I bought an HDB, :D a lot of opportunity to interact with locals ahahahah :D
but don't worry I'll never loose my nature :D hahaahha

Be well and hope to see u soon

Regards,

Luca

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Ooookay, uploading from Penang West Malaysia…

Over the next couple of days, I will be meeting up with quite a few traditional CKF Masters based on this island plus my own Kung Fu family in SiaoLim and Chow Gar…

Got here a clip from the session that I had with GM Mok Weng Chiew , Singapore Pak Hock Pai. You'll see GM Mok leading a class doing a portion of "Needles In Cotton" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ec8DRin4hnA

GM Mok is the current leader of the style in Singapore.

From him I found out how much his style has expanded worldwide and the gathering that they do once a year and how he is now preparing for the big one; the 60th anniversary of the Singapore’s branch.

Took the opportunity to ask him about Pak Hock and in particular the 2 5-animals form that they do.

I have always been curious about this style since my schooling days; many of my classmates were doing this under the late Lau Chi Meng.

GM Mok spoke about the “Kwan Wai” or “outside borders” origin of Pak Hock and I take that to mean “Tibet” and the evolution of the art when it finally settled down in the Southern region of China.

Before leaving, I was given a couple of magazines with histories etc and a VCD carrying many of the forms that they do in Pak Hock Pai.

Now, if I could only find the “Drunken” form that I remember some of my Pak Hock friends did all those years ago…..

Luca, if you know this form, you MUST show me the next time we meet …. preferably in “Pasta Mania” this time …. mama mia……

Now where is the nearest watering hole in Penang … got to get hydrated before I meet all the Kung Fu Masters of Penang…

Warmest Regards.


Eric

ps. will be working on the other videos that I got from Singapore. The Penang's leg of this trip is turning out to be more hectic than I imagined. So far, I have met with folks from Zhou Jia, Hungga, 7 Stars Praying Mantis, Southern Shaolin and I got so many more to meet.

these include :-

- Dato Png Chye Kim - SiaoLim
- Chu Gar Praying Mantis
- Tai Chor / Grand Ancestor
- Geok Gar
- Chu Gar Wing Chun

[Eric Ling]

Aaaaarrrgggghhhhhh.....typing this in a internet cafe and realising that I left my thumb drive in my hotel room; got 2 more clips ready for uploading. One "harder" Pak Hock form and another from Hong Sheng Koon Choy Li Fut....

"Needles in Cotton" is a fascinating form as far as I am concerned; this expression of "Crane" is a cut different from how we do it in Fukien/Fuzhou Crane and if given a chance to, I would really love to study this.

I remember some of my friends showing me the embedded "chin-na" and throwing techniques... an eye-opener..

Wu-ji, according to Ah Teck, the school you mentioned is defunct and he is trying to locate some of the senior members for me.

Had dinner with 2 Masters last evening; Dato P'ng Chye Kim and GM Lee To Sheng.

Dato P'ng needs no intro, he is probably the most well-known SiaoLim Master from this part of the world and he is everything I expected him to be. A true Grand Master and gentleman. For me to sit next to him is a real honor!

GM Lee is a Chu Gar expert and I am dying to find out more about his style. From the little that he demonstrated last evening, I can't wait.

Happily for me, both these 2 Kung Fu giants have agreed to a video session this coming Monday ... lalalalala....

Will share what I get with all of you.

Now this is a Sunday and I am in Penang .... I must start behaving like a tourist :p ;) :D :cool: :)

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[ironox]

Hello Eric. What an Experience the mag 2007 will be. So many Masters and styles. I think the Video and camera shops going to be busy. Phoenix Eye fist Maters wil be there . That is realy Good news, I envy you but you doing a great job.

Evert I will be in Kuching last week of May so i will bring some Tuak and Lankau for you from my Longhouse,Rumah Panjai Nanga Kesit. I will Make sure you recive it while you are in kuching.

Eric it wil be a case of carlsburg for you.


Hope to see you soon Sean

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Here’s the Hong Sheng Koon Choy Li Fut clip I mentioned, courtesy of GM Seah.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWkwA7i04QI

Well, did not get any R&R today like I originally thought. My Chow Gar Sihing brought
me to GM Lee To Sheng’s house in the hills where he owns a durian plantation.

Spent about 3 hours chatting with GM Lee about his “Chu Gar” Kung Fu and all I want to say at this time is that he is all “POWER”.

This man is simply incredible; every move that he makes is so power-packed that it’s really hard to believe he is 66.

After shooting one of his forms, we went into fighting concepts and again I realise how little I really know about traditional Kung Fu. Folks like him do Kung Fu for survival and not recreation and everything they do is for “FIGHTS”. Nothing fancy, just get the job done!

He is really one of those “if my enemy don’t move, I stay still. Once my enemy moves, I will move first” stylists.

We spoke at length about doing more for his “Chu Gar” and this includes publishing books and DVDs.

I will be back to work with this Master for sure and the next time I visit, I will time it during the durians’ harvesting …….

Errrrrhhh, for those of you not familiar with “durian”, just know that around here, it’s known as the “king of fruits”.

Yes your Majesty…

Warmest Regards.

Eric

ps. Sean, please let me know when you're going to be in town; some friends I want you to meet...

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

2 more clips from my Singapore’s trip ÷

Kum Kong Quen from Singapore Pak Hock Pai. Original video in some DVD format which came out flattened after my converting – sorry. Still, a beautiful form with nice mix of long and short bridge hands. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JyicD5ryXs

Photo-slide show from my trip starting with a pic of me and my Tai Chor Sifu, Teo Choon Teck. Rest of the pics were taken with folks from Kong Chow, the Zhou Jia headquarter in China town and Hong Sheng Koon. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e479Qtj7IsY

Will start posting clips from my Penang’s trip next … starting with Zhou Jia…..

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Ozzy Dave]

Great footage Eric, thanks for posting.

Looking forward to glimses of the Penang Masters.

You're doing a great job of whetting everyone's appetite for MAG2007!

Dave

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

First I just got to say that Penang is turning out to be beyond all my expectations, as far as Chinese Kung Fu is concerned.

I mean like everybody else, I knew about GM Dato P’ng Sao Lim and Sifu
Cheong’s Chu Gar and this is mainly because of the 2 books published about them.

Most Chinese magazines in my collection would spotlight Johor and KL Kung fu scene.

At the back of my mind, I supposed that there might be plenty about Penang’s CKF given her high Chinese population.

Still, these last couple of days revealed some breathtaking moments.

Last evening, my Chow Gar Sihing Peter Lum, arranged for a meeting at GM P’ng School. No biggie intended, just a couple of Kung Fu friends and GM P’ng has agreed to let us shoot some of his students.

I had dinner and was totally relaxed and all prepared for a tea session and picking up some kung fu skills from high hands.

When I got to the place, I found out that GM Dato P’ng had set up for a small performance, invited folks from the Kung Fu circle and reporters from some Chinese dailies…

Next thing I know, I was asked to give a speech in front of all these folks…

This was followed be performance by 3 different styles and I was “cornered” into giving an impromptu display.

Well, I am not going to irk you with my same old stuff but here are highlights from the other performances:-

Lin Nam Hung Gar – this style is headed by GM Yong Soon Teik and here you’ll see 2 of his students doing 5 Animals and Steel Iron Wire.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vzi77Otjn9U

Sao Lim – GM P’ng students doing “Willow Leaves Palm” and “Kam Kong”. You’ll also see GM P’ng himself demonstrating some applications using various “jin”.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3gXxEIDyC8

GM Lee To Sheng – this is the Sifu I spoke about earlier from Chu Gar. Hard to believe that he’s 66 years old. His power is astounding….http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkfjY1O07IE

I also visited the Geok Gar and Tai Chor folks yesterday. Got some videos that I am working on now from those sessions.
I will post them soon.

Warmest Regards.

Eric

ps. Dave ... I am getting hungry myself.:D :D :D

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

This should be appealing to some of you:-

Last evening I met up with a Sifu Cheong who owns and manages a temple here in Penang.

This gentleman, according to my Chow Gar Sihing, is a Wing Chun teacher some time back and he is now retired.

The encounter turned out to be real fascinating; Sifu Cheong does “Opera” Wing Chun.

Having very shallow knowledge of Wing Chun, I remember someone telling me that this belongs to non-mainstream styles of Wing Chun.

According to Sifu Cheong, his style of Wing Chun comes directly from Shaolin temple and is independent of Ng Mui or Yim Wing Chun.

Fleeing from the Manchurians, “Jhee Shim” took refuge with the opera troops and travel with them in their “red junk”.

He taught his kung fu to the troops and this is eventually settled in Penang.

The interesting thing is that Sifu Cheong’s Wing Chun shares commonalities with the other Wing Chuns.

At least the names of the forms are the same.

But looking at his “Siu Nim Tau” which is done in 3 parts, there are many glaring variances.

In the clip, you’ll see the ending portion which includes a kneeling stance and a kick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IH5V5wjFAcI

They also teach a drill known as “3 Arrow Palms” which reminds me of some of my Ancestral Crane’s drills.

The ending salutation is also out of the ordinary; looks almost exactly like “Chu Gar” Wing Chun’s salutation.

Again, got to say that I know very little about Wing Chun. Just thought some of you serious Wing Chunners might like this…..

Warmest Regards.

Eric

Ps…the other gentleman in the clip (with the glasses) is Peter Lum, my Chow Gar Sihing…

[Hendrik]

Eric,

Excellent!
You met Cho family's elderly Sam Chan's student. Po suk. if my memory serve. He looks different now.


hahaha, watch what we ask for. only weeks ago I post up about the Arrow palm.. and now you met it.

I recognized his Yik Kam's Arrow palm set even thought he perform it in a larger movement where in my lineage we do it in a more tight movement ; it looks even more "white crane".

and also notice his art and history evolve.


If you met him again, ask him to show you his thirteen hands (sap san sau) and the stick 8 points continous brigde (chi pat dim lin wan kiu) if he still practice them. That will be a create preservation.



If you visited Ayer Itam's maket, go to the butcher store ask for the direction to see Ah Chai and Ah Peng, they are my sihengs if you would like to visit them.


Best Regards
Hendrik

[chusauli]

Great to see that the Cho Ga system is alive and well in SE Asia!

It shows that an authentic WCK family is traceable and one can clearly see the influences White Crane has on this art.

This has been a great thread.

Eric, great work!

Robert Chu
chusauli@hotmail.com

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Brother Hendrix , Robert ..

Thanks. I suspected that it might be Cho Gar but I was'nt certain; I only recognise the "salutation".
Anyway, got another clip of Sifu Cheong doing a portion of "Siu Nim Tau" - will post later.

Now I got a Chow Gar/Zhou Jia clip to share.

Really love my Chow Gar family.. hardly know any of the Penang members but one phone call from my Sibagong Li Kam Yuen in Singapore and I was given the "royal" treatment here in Penang.

This trip is really important to me at many levels. Besides meeting all the CKF seniors from various styles, I also discovered how influential my Grand Master Li Kuan was around here.

Always been fascinated with his exploits and kung fu background. Known to have mastered 6 styles, including the seldom talked about "Wong San Pai" or "Yellow Mountain Sect", GM Li Kuan has been the subject of my research for a while now.

One of my goals is to compile and hopefully publish materials about GM Li Kuan and his kung fu and the cordial ways that I have been received here is giving me more motivation to do this soon.

And I really got to single out my Sihing, Peter Lum, for mention; without his help, this trip would have been much tougher.

So to all my Chow Gar family; THANK YOU....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kMLyXw5Wh8

Next up, I should have :-

Geok Gar
7 Stars Praying Mantis
Monkey Boxing
Southern Shaolin
and hopefully Eagle Claw kung fu

to post.

Warmest Regards.

Eric

Brother Hendrix, will try to visit Ayer Itam sometimes today.....:) :) :)

[Hendrik]

Brother Eric,

Do you also visit Mr. Pang our Shao Lin elder from Sigung Sek Ko Sam?




Thanks. I suspected that it might be Cho Gar but I was'nt certain; I only recognise the "salutation".
Anyway, got another clip of Sifu Cheong doing a portion of "Siu Nim Tau" - will post later.------


Great!



Yik Kam and Cho Soon until my sifu's generation called thier WCK as Ban Chong WCK.
I started the Name Cho family and Yik Kam lineage to differentiate them. I am a Ban Chong decendent. hahaha

Po Suk sure is an old timer with a little younger era but same generation with my sifu. Those old timers all have the "smell" of Yik Kam art hahaha. These days the "smell" has been disolve and replace more with Yip Man style.



It will be great when you post the Siu Liem Tau. actually, in the above post he has done the some portion of it also -- That Kaam Kung Tat Chat .... multi strike he is showing you...



Robert,


Since you are also a part of Yik Kam family,

Po Suk (uncle Po) is Sam Chan's student. Sam Chan is the student of Cho Soon, the siu mo of the Red Boat Opera, and Grand Student of Yik Kam.

Sam Chan is a younger school brother of Cho Dak Sing. Cho Dak Sing has already famous when Sam Chan train with Cho Soon as I have heard.


So, it is not that far away from Red Boat era. we could trace lots of stuffs, and it is a legit solidly trace able system with uniqness. the material covered is far far beyond the nan yang wing chun chapter of the complete wc book. and what i know is only a small part of it.












Brother Hendrix, will try to visit Ayer Itam sometimes today.....:) :) :)------

Hahaha, that is my second home town. I go to school at Hanchiang High School. and My sifu Cho Hung Choy's home is at Tien Tek Garden. after 30 years passed It is still clear in my mind.


Best Regards
and have fun in PG.

[Shadow_warrior8]

Great clip, thanks for this eric.
Fantastic

[kung fu fighter]

Anyway, got another clip of Sifu Cheong doing a portion of "Siu Nim Tau" - will post later.



Thanks for the clip Eric. it would be nice to see what the Cho's SLT looks like.

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Looks like we got quite a few Wing Chun fans around ......

Well, here's the partial “Siu Nim Tau” from Master Cheong
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQ46TnwTAxQ

Got another clip here :-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94FhbOMA8H4

Geok Gar. This is the first time that I am encountering this system personally; read and seen videos about it though Really like their unusual opening salutation and strangely, makes me think of some Silat...

The first gentleman, Master Chong (very common family name in this part), is the current leader of the style in Malaysia.

Spent some quality time talking about Geok Gar and his attendance this September.

Hmmm, methinks this September's gathering is gonna be really something....

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Hendrik]

Eric Siheng,

Thanks!

Yup, the first two routine of the first section of the 4 section long Siu Lien Tau set ( not Siu Niem Tau according to Kuen kuit from Yik Kam).

In my humble opinion, and with respect,
Po Suk has some personal evolution from the Yik Kam's kuen kuit, in particular, he evolve from finger strike which recorded in the Yik Kam's Kuen kuit into palm strike, however, it is certainly Yik Kam's set's platfrom that is forsure.

One signature is in Yik Kam's lineage we use Kung Sau or Bow hand when facing out instead of the Fok Sau as in other lineages.


Look at the begining hand type ( back to back hand prayer ) which is similar to the White Crane's "Kuan Yin sit on lotus" hand type of White Crane from Yong Chun within the set of such as the Ba Fen , Shr San Tai Bau.. and other sets in the following website from China.




http://www.yongchunbaihechuen.com/videos.html


clik on Yuan Gong Kan Shr Fu

http://www.yongchunbaihechuen.com/main.html



See, how close we are with White Crane.



We in Yik Kam lineage clamp the knees to adjust and then let it go back to the nature...





Other subject.


As for your Geok Ka, I think it is related to my late Kyokushin Kai sifu Joe Chin Tat-Chin. His father do Geok Ka and he did Geok ka also as I heard.


Best Regards
and Thanks again.

[kung fu fighter]

Thanks again Eric,

It's nice to get a glimse of what the Cho's SLT look like. The application clip of your Ancestral crane on Youtube is remarkabily similar to wing chun especially in regards to the evasive footwork.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spNNcNkCzhA

what are some of the Ancestral crane's principles, theories, and concepts?

[samadhi_fire]

:) :) :)
 Northern Shaolin (Master Sebastian Soh’s line). I met Paul Yeo, one of the custodians of Master Soh’s Lohan since his passing. It’s never good to know of someone passing so young and in Master Soh’s case, a personal friend, it’s even tougher. I said this before and I still maintain that Sebastian Soh is one of the best Lohan boxers of this generation. This man got to be seen to be believed; his speed, power and agility are really exceptional. Unfortunately I don’t have videos but Paul did give me some old pictures and these I will treasure… I am expecting Paul to be in Sarawak this September.


Hey Eric,

Master Soh's master is still alive and kicking - Master Tan Joo Seng. He used to run Hua Tiong and he has started teaching again. Let me know if you want to get in touch. Drop me a PM. Cheers.

[Eric Ling]

Aaaarrrggghhh, I just visited some of my youtube clips and found some of them too "dark".

Going to rework all of the new clips before posting.

Brother Hendrik, got a question for you; know anything about "male/female" versions of Wing Chun?

I was at Penang Chin Woo the other night talking to Master Wong who just about know everything regarding CKF and he spoke about this...

According to him, there exist a "long bridge / big horse" Wing Chun not commonly spoken about.

Anyway, I am going to be working on different projects with all these Penang Masters and I thought you (or anyone interested) might want to play a
part; I see you working with me on "Cho Gar" Wing Chun...time you re-visit your hometown.

They are installing a new enormous bronze "Kuan Yin" over at "kek lok si" that's going to put Malaysia in the books of world records again; this thing is HUGE!

kungfu fighter, I will be putting up more clips to illustrate my White Crane once I am back in Sarawak. Words fail me sometimes, especially English which is not my first tongue.

Samadhi fire , I should be in Singapore again in the next couple of months; will try and meet up with you then.

I just found out that I have got a big meeting lined up next week in KL so I will be moving again .... going to miss Penang's prawn mee, laksa, rojak and tosai....aaarrrrrrggghhhh.....

But KL ain't too bad ...hear that F1 is in town .... get your motor running ........:cool: :cool: :cool:

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

I was poking my nose into another thread and read that FujianQuan favours short bridge/small horse.

Might be true but not completely; there are many Fujian styles that advocate longer bridges and stances like triangular and 4 level horse stances.

Ven. Sek Kok Sum's SaoLim comes to mind. The Lohan/Kam Kong series, for instance, is not much unlike techniques that you would normally associate with Hungga etc..

Got another Southern Fujian Shaolin style here that is not all that closed-in. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHyA0B8KcSQ

Even in Fujian/Fuzhou Cranes, there are many long range techniques; just that they are not commonly seen by outsiders.

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Hendrik]

Eric Siheng,



Brother Hendrik, got a question for you; know anything about "male/female" versions of Wing Chun?

I was at Penang Chin Woo the other night talking to Master Wong who just about know everything regarding CKF and he spoke about this...

According to him, there exist a "long bridge / big horse" Wing Chun not commonly spoken about. -----------Eric







I have heard about the Male/Female and Long bridge/Big Horse Wing Chun... etc story.


In my understanding, male/female or Long bridge....versions of Wing Chun is depend greatly on the independent WCK lineage and thier Localization Evolution. After 150 years after the Red Boat uprising lots of things could be re-arrange or group due to different lineages' needs. So, IMHO, it could not dealing with it in generalization. some lineage my split into male or female, some might just do the male...etc

What we know for fact in history is that while Lee Man Mau leading the uprising of the Opera members, there were different groups which were given different name. Rene could give you all the names of the group.

and for the Yik Kam lineage, my late sifu Cho Hong-Choy have told me. Our salutation and Kuit represent Yik Kam's Group. If there is a chance I will Youtube the salutation to share so that we could see the feminine type of Salutation since Yik Kam himself is an actor who is playing female role.

Since we also know Lee Man Mau himself is a White Crane practitioner, his group might be more "male" express then Yik Kam's group because he is doing White Crane from Fujian instead of WCK. Any How, that does really split the art into bipolar but different art in Red Boat. IMHO


In additional, IMHO
As we all know, Wing Chun has its uniqueness and the implementation of the uniqueness is the key instead of the differentiation of the stance and bridge which I see it has less meaning.







I cant speak for other lineages but only for the Yik Kam lineage, IMHO, we know the art that Miu Soon created and passed down to Yim Wing-Chun, in term of kuen kuit and technics that both long/short of bridge/stance are used. As you could sample Bo Suk's and Ku Choy-Wah's action.



Long Short brigde

To give you something tangible answer for this long and short bridge issue and I would like to put this to rest for all of our young generation of Yik Kam lineage practitioner is that.


The fact is:
the ending salutation of the old 4 section SLT, the kuen kuit said,


Bong Jarng Kim Yee Chaan Ying Hung ( cantonese)
or
Wing elbow, sword finger, (here I) present to the hero.

See Wing elbow is the short bridge method, Sword finger is the long bridge method. So, that tell us about the art, both long and short bridge are used simutaneously as needed.





Female and or Male


As for the female and or male, again, I can speak for the Yik Kam lineage only, Yik Kam lineage has a uniqueness of emphasis expressing the Mai San Ciim or close body reel compare with other WCK lineages. IMHO

This close body reel is as it said in Mandarin "rou chiing sze sui" or soft sentiment similar to water to describe the loving sentiment of a lady.

So, implementing this rou chiing sze sui or Mai San Ciim, the implemention snake reel like or similar to what one see in the Chinese Opera how the Female role reel thier sleves. That is the characteristics.



So, as for the female or male version, I would say, look at what is WCK's characteristics or uniqueness, the answer is there. again, I could only speak for my lineage, that is if it is WCK from Yik Kam, then when it is no longer has the Mai San Ciim or Rou Chiing sze sui sentiment, then that is no longer Yik Kam's WCK. IMHO.



I was very happy to see Bo Suk's clip while you and him are playing. because that bring back the memory of my sifu late Cho Hong-Choy. Cho Hong-Choy's Mai San Ciim is very soft and very close distance. This you could verify with my Pinang's sihengs such as Ah Chay and Ah Peng if you meet them.

In addition, my sijo Cho Dak Seng and Sigung Cho Chun also have used this Ciim uniqueness to defeat thier challengers be it the challenger is using pole or Kwan Do.

Thus, this Ciim is a key uniqueness of Yik Kam lineage or Cho family. and this also brought up to the topic of power generation DNA which is supporting the Ciim.. long topic for later when we have chances...







Anyway, I am going to be working on different projects with all these Penang Masters and I thought you (or anyone interested) might want to play a
part; I see you working with me on "Cho Gar" Wing Chun...time you re-visit your hometown. -------- Eric



That will be excellent!
you could help them to brought so many things to reveal into international water.


As for me working with you. hahaha, PG Cho family and Yik Kam lineage has so many of my seniors, there is Bo Suk, and lots of my sihengs dais, also Ku Choy Wah sifu. So, I am not in the high hand list. They use to call me SWimmer Kuen when I was doing my set, because I was doing my set similar to swiming. hahaha. that is decades and decades ago.

however, if I could help in anyway on "paper theory talk" feel free to contact me.






They are installing a new enormous bronze "Kuan Yin" over at "kek lok si" that's going to put Malaysia in the books of world records again; this thing is HUGE! -----



Yup, I was visiting Kek Lok Si a few year back. always go to the market to see my siheng before go to Kek Lok si. hahaha

Do you visited Chu Gar on the path to Kek Lok Si?



Best Regards and have a great trip, I am sure everyone in PG appreciate your dedication.



Peace

[Eric Ling]

Bong Jarng Kim Yee Chaan Ying Hung ( cantonese)
or
Wing elbow, sword finger, (here I) present to the hero.

See Wing elbow is the short bridge method, Sword finger is the long bridge method. So, that tell us about the art, both long and short bridge are used simutaneously as needed.


Brother Hendrix,

Any chance of you sending me the full poem ?

Interestingly, that is also how we define our White Crane's long/short bridges ...

As for working together, I will send you more details soon.

I really want to work towards documenting these various art forms and making it available to folks everywhere. Before I left Penang, I had dinner with many Masters and the concensus is that this is long overdue...

Personally I think SE Asia plays a very important position in the migratory patterns of the arts that simply cannot be ignored by any researchers.

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Hendrik]

Brother Eric,


Any chance of you sending me the full poem ?----- Eric


if you are in Singapore,
I have passed a copy to Sifu Ku Chai Wah, so you could get a copy from him.






Interestingly, that is also how we define our White Crane's long/short bridges ...----Eric


with these type of White Crane DNA and the Snake reel like of Mai San Ciim (close body reel) which needed the Emei 12 Zhuang's Snake slide worm moves, That is the uniqueness make WCK WCK; off spring from White Crane and Emei parents. As I observed from the teaching of Miu Shun passed down by Yik Kam.

We know for the detail, The White Crane components are the core components of SLT. and
Without the Emei 12 zhuang's method, the Mai San Ciim or the Close body reel or the close body Chi (as Chi sau) implementation in WCK could not be explained. IMHO.


IMHO, with fading away of the Emei components in the past 60 years, the practice of WCK is shifted to a more discrete type of art where it is closer and closer to White Crane.
and Some who realized the need of the Chii is importing the TaiJi or Yee Chuan type of DNA into WCK. That become another evolution.

So, for me, looking via Yik Kam's eyes with his teaching,
WCK could be very briefly model as :


The White Crane of Fujian perform on stage in the traditional Chinese Opera, With the close body reel sleve to wrap, track , and neutralized with hidden strick (lin siu dai da), lady like of soft artistic touch, elegantly fuse into it.


for those who dont know what I am talking about " sleve", try the following extreme dramatized trailers , so you have a feel of what I am talking about the sleves stuffs which is a big thing in Chinese opeara.


click on the Dance
and the Echo game
http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1808590078/trailer


imagine as in the clip where the sleve is reeling at close body and no pull back when attacking the male actor....and the Awareness as in the Echo Game

(and ofcorse the high bong sau with the confident smile. hahaha, Wing elbow and sword finger present to the hero in a dramatic way. :D)


Bottom line, IMHO, these type of art could only be implemented via snake like of technology, and that snake like distiguist itself from Shao Lin style. it is certainly not Shao Lin because Monks dont dance. :D hahaha

and also, there is no Male/Female or long /Short bridge in the Complete art, because everything is one as in the clip. unless one doesnt have the full enchilada or one's art has been localized to answer to a certain needs which is totally legit in the evolution of survival. IMHO




As for working together, I will send you more details soon. -------Eric


No problem. If I could help. I will share what I know.





I really want to work towards documenting these various art forms and making it available to folks everywhere. Before I left Penang, I had dinner with many Masters and the concensus is that this is long overdue...

Personally I think SE Asia plays a very important position in the migratory patterns of the arts that simply cannot be ignored by any researchers. -----Eric



True.

I am glad you are in this project. With your enthusiasm and passionate, I am sure this will write a new volume in the CMA of SEA and world wide.



Best Regards
Hendrik

[byond1]

Hello Kung Fu Brothers,

Hope all is well with everyone. Ive been hard at work on the Wing Chun Pedia, and have some material debuting that has never been exposed to the west. So everyone keep your ears to the ground.

I have made contact with a great White Crane master in H.K, who is kindly considering being a Co-author on the research book by the "AWCKRI" that is comparing and contrasting Ancestral Wing Chun Kuen with Weng Chun County White Crane. We are travelling to H.K in October or November for an open exchange of material and to discuss the project. This is a great time for Wing Chun and Kung Fu in general.Thanks to guys like elder kung fu brother Eric and so many families opening up their systems.

A question was posed about Male/female versions of WCK by Eric. Speaking from the perspective of Yuen Kay Shan family. Our Lineage descends from Ban Chung actors Wong Wah Bo, and Dai Fa Min Kam.

>Leung Jan > Chan Wah Shun> Yip Man
Wong Wah Bo > Fok Bo Chun >Yuen Kay Shan>Sum Nung

Hence we preserve the 3 Hand forms, that Wong Wah Bo broke down from the Single form we see in Cho Gar, and Lo Kwai family.

Dai Fa Min Kam> Fung Siu Ching>Yuen Kay Shan> Sum Nung

Hence we preserve San sik Method.

So in YKS WCK we preserve both San Sik and Hand Form methods. Yuen passed down that both teachers practised the exact same art, only organized different. He and Sum were convinced that there was no "Male" "Weng" Chun system, other than "Weng Chun Bok Hok".

To my understanding, as I have been told by Sifu, and as the research from the AWCKRI points to, there is only 1 wing chun system. Male or Female is simply a romantic legend. There were Male or Male playing female roles on the Opera boats, but they didnt have a unique WCK system, other than there were 2 different methods of organizing the info.
The 3rd method was a later evolution when Wong Wah Bo broke the single form down into components, with his student Leung jan, which we see in modern WCK.

*Male playing female role

1) Yik Kam - Single Form - 4 sections - archival method (as seen in Cho Gar)
2) Leung Yee Tai - Single Form - Linked San Sik - Integrated method (as in Fung Kulo Village)

*Male role

1) Dai Fa Min Kam - Single Form - Linked San Sik - Integrated Method (Yuen Kay Shan method)
2) Wong Wah Bo - original method - Single Form -4 sections- archival method(Lo Kwai family)
3) Wong Wah Bo - Foshan teaching - 3 Hand forms + 1 Jong (YKS, Yiu choi, Chan, and Yip)

So as we can see in both groups, both methods of preservation are found.

Now the question of what came first the Single Form San Sik or the Single Form Archival method isnt answered yet. Cho Family believes from my understanding and what i have heard, that the single form 4 sections is the original.
In the YKS branch, it has been passed down that the San Sik method is older, as the older White Crane was also set up in San Sik method. Research is still ongoing.

Many have attempted to reintegrate "Lost" material, by mixing in Hung Gar and "sai ping dai mah" use, but this is again, what Hendrik calls Localized evolution.
The truth is there were varying degrees of how much White crane was used by individuals, thus lending to different interpretations. Also the WCK system is conceptual based/Jing based, as is Weng chun county White crane, so the physical structures can be different.

The question of Long Bridge/ short bridge is interesting because of legend that Yuen Kay Shans first sifu focused on Long Bridge and Yuens Second Sifu Fung Siu Ching focused on Short bridge. The truth is both teachers had the same methods. Fok Bo Chun placed focus on the Knives, and Snake Hand methods. Fung Siu Ching placed more personal emphasis on the Pole, Sot Gow and Kum Na methods. I also understand Fung was a bigger guy than Fok, and that played a part in how they applied their art.

To add a bit on the connection between White Crane and WCK, In YKS as i mentioned we preserve San Sik sets. In particular we have a set of Horizontal whipping Jing we call "Pok Yik Jeung" (flapping wing palms), that i have seen in several different branchs of Crane.
We even have a set called "Bok Hok Kum Wu: (White crane catchs the fox)!!! Which uses a Lateral striking motion called "Sart Geng Sau", combined with a claw hand Larp, while using the Gwok Mah horse, to join and strike in the lowest gate. This horse is like something that appears in the Cho Hong Choi's SLT 4th section ( if memory serves). This sik teachs use of 3 diffearnt motions at once, and keeps the opponent at close distance.

Another obvious connection, is YKS Darp Sau. "Darp" means "To Join" or specifically "Mouths joined in agreement." This movement is the same as what i have seen in Ancestral White Crane and Pan Family Weng chun County White Crane, as does Lee Kongs branch, but im not sure what the movement is called. Its usualy called "Gai" or covering in Ancestral Crane that i have encountered.

YKS oral and written tradition, as my sifu has told me explicitly states WCK is White Crane, that was mixed with a Snake Boxing system in the region of Emie. Our tradition is in alighnment with Cho familly Oral tradition. The idea that WCK is from Chi Sim, is something new that has crept into a few branchs of Cho Gar for some reason, and is not the traditional story, as passed down from Red Boat times.



Brian

[Hendrik]

Brain,

Is it ok to ask who is your Sifu in YKS lineage?

[Shadow_warrior8]

Eric,

Here is the Kuen Kuit shared generously by Hendrik

http://www.wingchunkuen.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=594&highlight=kuen+kuit

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Brother Hendrix, Brian….

Let me applaud you both for all the works you are presently doing in the field of Wing Chun …… please keep it up, this level of intensity is exactly what is needed in the correct recording of traditional CKF.

The “Jhee Sim” angle came from Sifu Cheong during our discussion of histories and really if we zoom in, we see overlapping everywhere; Wing Chun, White Crane, Hungga, Tai Chor and Fukien Shaolin.

Coincidental? I really think not. If we look at timelines, we are all swimming in the same pond.

Brother Brian, when you first wrote to me, it was the “internal” element that got me piqued. My own research into Fuzhou Cranes all point to blending of Fukien Crane and an internal style.

Another parallel?

I agree one hundred percent that Wing Chun without the internal training is skimming the surface. Master after master I spoke to highlighted this and lamented how most are just training the external forms.

Well since our paths have crossed, it must be leading somewhere… I should have more time after this month and we must get down to some serious rapping….I am aware that YKS Wing Chun consists of many pronounced White Crane concepts.

Jason, Wulinijia, like I explained is currently put on hold. In fact, one of the reasons that I am in Kuala Lumpur is to talk to some government departments about funding of this project which is expected to be really hefty in terms of requirements…

Besides staffing, I really need heavy duty servers and broadband connectivity for it to work. Not to mention, Russ Smith, who is the software development expert behind the project…

Here’s another clip from my Penang’s trip; Zhou Jia Quan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEwhy0Kdo_Y

This was taken one morning in an all girl’s school, Phor Tay, where they conduct traditional CKF and even Karate classes.

The first gentleman is Sifu Goon, another Zhou Jia Sihing with “Jing Le” Zhou Jia School here in Penang.

The 2 forms that you see the girls do are the first 2 basic forms; hahahaha the same forms that I went through in Singapore when I did Zhou Jia.
The young man in white tees is an assistant coach in the class.

Warmest Regards.

Eric

Bertrand, thanks for the kuit ..... now I just burned my R&R in KL .......:( :( :(

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Hope you folks can view this okay - this is the brightest I can get the clip to go .....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAjb266Ocfk

Looks like I need to go shopping for camera lights..good thing I am in KL.:D :D :D

Taken in Penang Chin Woo, I was there when they were running a "7 Stars Praying Mantis" class.

Love the way they train; forms, 2 men, applications etc... the old fashion way....

Master Wong, the teacher, comes from the old schools and we spent a fantastic hour talking about what's happening in the world of CKF. And we share so many similar views .....

This September, he would be in Kuching and hopefully perform some Ying Chow besides his 7 Stars PM......

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Shadow_warrior8]

All these clips are great, Eric.

That goes to show Traditional Chinese Martial arts is very much alive from the time it came from china to now.

My grandmother came to Nanyang from Shunde, Guangzhou, China. So from her to me, its just 1 generation away.

Love malaysia, great food, scenery, and its just 30 mins away from Singapore. Time to make a trip across the causeway.
:)

[byond1]

Hi Brothers,

Eric - "My own research into Fuzhou Cranes all point to blending of Fukien Crane and an internal style."

What i find extremly interesting , is YKS and Cho Gar Oral tradition states Ng Mui taught someone named Miu Shun, who fused White Crane with an internal Snake boxing art, in the area of "Ermie".
I have heard a very similar oral tradition in a few branchs of White Crane!!! The Tradition states the Fang originaly passed down a hard version of Crane. Later meeting the head of the Heaven and earth Society, learned internal Ermie Kung Fu, which she used to soften her crane.

If we look at Lee Kong Sifus branch of White Crane, we see a softer use of Ging. Ive always wondered about where and how his branch evolved.
My current idea is this. Fang passed down a San Sik harder Ging White Crane, in weng chun county initialy. Later the original teachings were reformed by the Pan family, into the system they preserve today. The san sik were linked into sets, ect.
While Fang herself softened her crane at a later date. This than would be Lee Kongs Branch. This is the art that who ever was nicknamed " Ng Mui" (possibly a 5th generation master), passed down to Miu Shun. Who than integrated the Snake Boxing system. This was passed down to Yim Yee, who passed it to Leung Bok Chau, who imported it onto the Opera boats, where Fang/Ng Muis Soft Crane as well as possibly the older harder Fang/Pan branch already were there evolving.
This than is how the various WCK branchs occured based on integrating more amounts of crane or focusing more on the Snake aspect. Others mixed in other arts creating cousin systems.

I also think Hendrik is onto something with the Sup Yee Zhuang. what i dont understand yet, is how much of an internal component WCK is supposed to have. Of cource this isnt a run to the finish line, but a life long study.

I think there are also a few other components involved in WCK, including Sut Tzu Art of War, as well as another system, that im not sure on yet. The older branchs of WCK refer to their Gwun method as " Luk Dim Boon Gwun Sup Saam Cheung " or 6.5 Pole 13 spear. Im curious if this relates the Siulum Sup Sam Cheung method, or what system this came from, as its not found in Ermie nor White Crane that i have encountered.


Brian

[byond1]

Hendrik -


I sent you a PM

[Hendrik]

Some how, someone brought up the subject about who is the first generation of Cho family after Yik Kam ancestor.


I think, it is good to bring up here.

Eventhougth some might think Cho Dak-Sing is the first generation ancestor of Cho Family WCK,

The fact is :

Bo Suk's sifu is Sam Chaan, Sam Chaan elder's Sifu is Cho Soon. Sam Chaan's senior School brother is Cho Dak-Sing. Cho soon is Yik Kam's Student.

IMHHHO, we in Cho family could not make Cho Dak-Sing as the first generation of Cho Family because if that is that case, then Bo Suk doesnt exist for Cho Soon Doesnt exist.


I hope we could embrace everyone in the family, it is time to share and contribute....


Peace

[Hendrik]

Hi Brothers,


I also think Hendrik is onto something with the Sup Yee Zhuang. what i dont understand yet, is how much of an internal component WCK is supposed to have. Of cource this isnt a run to the finish line, but a life long study.




I am not onto something. I am just a translater of Yik Kam's Kuen kuit. and the Kuen Kuit is using Emei 12 Zhuang's stanza. :)

[Hendrik]

Hi everybody,



I agree one hundred percent that Wing Chun without the internal training is skimming the surface. Master after master I spoke to highlighted this and lamented how most are just training the external forms.






Eric Siheng,


Everyone will agree but hahahaha,
most will not agree with me about the bad thing fixing the elbow in the center line.


If WCK is believe to be from White Crane, then

in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5MRWO9Pw6k


The master has generously reveal on how to handle the chest without causing "Lai Siong" or internal injury.

But how many will agree?

instead of keep fixing the elbow and thinking that is a proper thing to do , which is clearly cant be the teaching of White Crane and could cause Lai Siong.

In additional, some couldnt even differentiate between the Wai Kung and Nei Kung.

So, IMHO, lots of eduction are needed in this area.



Just some opinion.

Best Regards
Hendrik

[byond1]

Hi Hendrik -

"I also think Hendrik is onto something with the Sup Yee Zhuang" B

I am not onto something. I am just a translater of Yik Kam's Kuen kuit. and the Kuen Kuit is using Emei 12 Zhuang's stanza - HS



Thats a nice way of saying your research hasnt been released to the public for independent verification. I personaly havnt seen the Yik kam writings, nor had them translated by my translator. So at this point, i am taking your word for it, that they exist, and they say, what you have translated them to say. But "Taking your word for it" isnt the same things as verifying your information.

Also when i say "i think your on to something", that means specificaly this is your idea, that you discovered. It wouldnt be proper for me to say "Cho family is on to something" - So i was given credit where credit was due , as to my knowledge you were the person, who first made the connection, via reading the Emie Kuen Kuit for the first time, when Dr.Chow released his book.


Eric - Yes Chi Sim turns up alot. The odd thing is he turns up in in the burning of the Siulum temple all the way up to mid 1850. I have always thought perhaps it related to a group of people, or system of thought. And as you mentioned the 5 Grandmasters turn up in most Southern arts.

I know the book "History of Guandong Martial Arts" - which has over 100 reseachers, working together, suggest Chi Sim never existed. They go through all southern arts and either debunk or prove the oral traditions. Im trying to get a copy of the complete book so i can have it translated into english and publish it in the west. But its extremly rare.

But your words still have weight, as there is a good chance there is a reason his name turns up so much.

Food for Thought!!~

B

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Brother Brian,

This is getting curiouser and curiouser,,,,, Sife Cheong mentioned "13 Spears" and at which point I stopped him to verify and he did.

The other "13 Spears" is done in the Pan Nam Wing Chun group but I am not certain whether it falls under their Wing Chun's banner.

Fang did join the "Heaven & Earth" society accordingly to most accounts and the leader of that group was recorded as a "internal" expert.

According to my White Crane elders, Fang's White Crane took on a relatively more "internal" characterictics in Fuzhou; this is really quite apparent if you view most of the later days' Cranes to come out of Fuzhou.

Yong Chun county's White Crane is much "harder" even with their emphasis on "nei gung" training and you could see much "tiger" elements embedded. Not strange if you consider the fact that she married her best student who was recorded as an expert in "tiger" boxing.

You could also see "Lohan" in many of Yong Chun White Crane techniques; again not strange, she did studied Lohan Boxing with her father.

In was only in Fuzhou that the "Wu xin" or "5 Elements" concept became incorporated. Where did this "5 elements" come from in the context of White Crane?

I will send you some material from my White Crane school when I am back in Singapore next;sometimes end of this month. I left my late teacher's materials with my Siheng for safekeeping.

Keep up the good work!:) :) :)

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[byond1]

Eric - Ahhhh - thanks for sharing!! That was how i heard it.

Incidently the 5 Element hands shows up in Lee Kongs branch. My understanding is that there are individual hands and Gings relating to each element, but also every movement must contain a balance of all 5 energies. Im working on translating his lineage chart.

As Brother Hendrik initialy brought my attention to, Wu Hsing Sau appear in WCK also. The Water Hand is the Tan Sau that appears in YKS WCK (Cant speak for other branchs) . Wood Hand is a Verticle Biu Jee , Fire hand is a Verticle Palm strike like Pak Sau or Chang Jeung in YKS ...ect.

Im very excited about begining work on the book, i just have to debut the WCKpedia first, as i cant chew on to much at one time. I now have a love for White crane like i do WCK, and cant wait to get to work!!~

I agree completly , that the little Fuzhou i have encountered, has a very definitive Internal component.

That is very interesting about Fangs husband being a Tiger boxer, that i havnt heard before. Thank you so kindly for sharing.

I studied Pan Nam system via Eddie Chong in Michigan. But i didnt go extremly deep into the system. I learned the first 2 forms and part of the Jong. Unfortunately i didnt learn Biu Jee or the weapons. I didnt realise that "13" shows up in their system. Interesting.

I have heard the oral tradition that Lohan boxing was the base used in White Crane. Interesting that the older Crane system was San Sik based though, as i dont seem to remember hearing about this showing up in Lohan Boxing method. I wonder what influenced the San Sik method of organization??

B

[Shadow_warrior8]

Here's an interesting interpretation of Yat Chee Dao by Master Wong Kiew Kit

http://wongkk.com/video-clips-2/weapons/butterfly-knives/butterfly.html

Travelling dragon 13 spear from another family
http://wongkk.com/video-clips-2/weapons/spear/spear-videos.html

Some stuff on white crane elemental hands
http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?p=885483#post885483

[Eric Ling]

Brother Brian,

Like I said earlier, getting curiouser and curiouser...

You wrote:-
"As Brother Hendrik initialy brought my attention to, Wu Hsing Sau appear in WCK also. The Water Hand is the Tan Sau that appears in YKS WCK (Cant speak for other branchs) . "

Most Fuzhou Cranes (at least the 2 that I am involved in) represent "Water Hand" like a "Tan Sau"; palms facing skywards but executed from front of crotch area and spreading outwards to line with shoulder's width as they reach the eyebrow level. The returning path is like "stroking long beard" or also known as "Kwan Kong Stroking Beard" in the kuit.

Most of my Whooping Crane forms start with "water hands". Check out clips of me doing Whooping Crane.

They then end with different hands depending on which level's form...

Sorry I can't write too much - got some business proposal to do up for a meeting scheduled the next couple of days.

Wu-ji, have you heard this one; the 5 parts salutation found in Wuzu actually denote the various elements?

Every of the component style, Lohan, White Crane etc etc is another embodiment of the elements?

Oh yes before I forget, to look for co-relation between Lohan and White Crane,you got to zoom in on Lohan boxing and in this case "Northern Lohan".

Most available materials, mainly those from mainland, are poor documentation or recently made-up mumbo-jumbo...

If you understand Mandarin, let me work on sending you some old materials...

Something else for you; some folks from Whooping Cranes still do a "Lohan" form and this could have come from "Pan Yu Ba", the person we believe to preceed "Xia Zong Xian", wrongly credited as the founder of Whooping Crane.
Pan is noted as a Lohan Boxer before taking up White Crane.

Point to note : Pan Yu Ba has the same family name as "Pang Cheng Miao" the current leader of Yong Chun county's White Crane; different spelling that's all...

Now for a few Carlsbergs before I start crunching some numbers....

Warmest Regards.

Eric

Bertrand, to look for Pan's 13 spears, you gotta look at the forms display at the end of the 6 1/2 pole DVD...

[BeginnersMind]

Hi all:

This is a fruitful and interesting discussion here -- much of it is in lock-step with discussions started way back when in the Wu Lin Tien Ti forum. It is too bad those discussions ended abruptly -- but glad to see them in redux here.

Hendrik: Maybe you are right that most would not agree with you regarding the elbow fixed in center thing -- but you have my total agreement, and my Wing Chun family comes from the Yip Man branch! As you might know, i also spent some years with Ling doing his Fuzhou Crane too. Just because the unwashed masses of the forum world shout loudly in dissent at your views does not mean you don't have silent agreement from others, less vocal.

peace,

chas

[byond1]

Hi Brothers,


Brother Shadow - Much love for Wong Sifu, and a great find. Yan Jee Dao or Character "Yan"/Man swords are rare indeed. That name is unique to Cho Gar in my understanding. Wong Sifus set has a second knife set integrated i believe.

YKS and Kulo knives according to my research, uses the shortened name " Yee Jee Dao" or Character "Yee"/2 swords. Or the full name "Yee Jee Dit Ming Seung Dao" or Character '2' life taking double swords.

Thanks for sharing the Wu Shing Sau. I have also heard a variation for Metal hand. Something similar to our Darp, that looks like the Cranes beak, is similar in physical structure to the Metal Hand. All though the energy is differant to a Darp Sau.

Brother Eric - According to how i was taught, what you describe is our alignment other than its shoulder width and shoulder high. So yours might be a tad higher if its aligned with eyebrow level. Thank for sharing. I like the returning hand stroking the beard::))

The whole concept of Po Pai Jeung is core WCK. And is another example of the strong link, that points to Wing Chun being a child of the White Crane.


I know Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun also has the idea of 13 spear. They say its from the Northern Shaolin temple i believe.


B

[Hendrik]

Fixing the elbow in the center line is for defense, making the front gate tight. For offense, it disconnects the shoulders, making power localizes in arms. It will be speedy, but power will suffer. That's the trade off.

There shouldn't be fixing of anything. Yin and Yang is either interchanging or existing together. Yang inside Yin is for defense, Yin inside Yang is for offense.


Just my 2 cents worth


Wuji,

I agree with you 100%. I hope lots of WCners listern to your kind words.


Best Regards
Hendrik

[Hendrik]

Brother Shadow - Much love for Wong Sifu, and a great find. Yan Jee Dao or Character "Yan"/Man swords are rare indeed. That name is unique to Cho Gar in my understanding. Wong Sifus set has a second knife set integrated i believe.---------



You guys must be knowing my sifu late Cho Hong-Choy much much much more then me. hahaha,

Anyone wants to take a poll in Penang within my siheng dais about did my sifu call his knive set Yan Jee Do? :D

[Hendrik]

Hendrik: Maybe you are right that most would not agree with you regarding the elbow fixed in center thing -- but you have my total agreement, and my Wing Chun family comes from the Yip Man branch! As you might know, i also spent some years with Ling doing his Fuzhou Crane too. Just because the unwashed masses of the forum world shout loudly in dissent at your views does not mean you don't have silent agreement from others, less vocal.

peace,

chas



Chas,

Silent agreement is always great!

[Hendrik]

Hi Hendrik -

"I also think Hendrik is onto something with the Sup Yee Zhuang" B

I am not onto something. I am just a translater of Yik Kam's Kuen kuit. and the Kuen Kuit is using Emei 12 Zhuang's stanza - HS



Thats a nice way of saying your research hasnt been released to the public for independent verification. I personaly havnt seen the Yik kam writings, nor had them translated by my translator. So at this point, i am taking your word for it, that they exist, and they say, what you have translated them to say. But "Taking your word for it" isnt the same things as verifying your information.

Also when i say "i think your on to something", that means specificaly this is your idea, that you discovered. It wouldnt be proper for me to say "Cho family is on to something" - So i was given credit where credit was due , as to my knowledge you were the person, who first made the connection, via reading the Emie Kuen Kuit for the first time, when Dr.Chow released his book.


B



Thank you for sharing your very imaginative speculation.

I dont need your credit and I dont agree with you.
Not to mention you dont know Cho familly art and not in a position to address what is or what is not. and also you dont know me.

peace

[Shadow_warrior8]

Fixing the elbow in the center line is for defense, making the front gate tight. For offense, it disconnects the shoulders, making power localizes in arms. It will be speedy, but power will suffer. That's the trade off.

There shouldn't be fixing of anything. Yin and Yang is either interchanging or existing together. Yang inside Yin is for defense, Yin inside Yang is for offense.


Just my 2 cents worth

Hmmmm interesting point.
Just sharing my observations.

We did a test once with resistance, where one held a centreline fist, and took a step forward and the other pushed against both hands against the punching hand. It displaced the pusher. e.g chung choi and push

Then we did one where the centreline was not observed, fly elbow and it was not able to displace the person. e.g Bong Sao position and push

Agree totally about not clamping anything. Its never fixed static. But the elbow position is not a fixed position.
Some masters I know, teach it with a clamped armpit. Where it is always closed, not open.

Alan, Master Alan Orr.....? Your expertise in structure would be nice???? Heh heh...

[Hendrik]

Please share.......

According to Sifu Wong, “Human-Character Knives” of Sifu Choe Hoong Choy of Choe Family Wing Choon. “Human-character” is so-named because the two knives are held like the Chinese character for “human”

We retain the set as Yan Chee Dao. Some call it jee mui dao. HK calls it Batt Cham Dao.



You see, lot of people assume. and then using thier assumption to critic or verify others. instead of observe what is reality.



as for what my sifu called his knive set, as I said, take a poll in PG within my sihengs-dai and see what they called it.



You know why I mention these? because within our siheng-dai we are very close and Sifu treat all of us equal.

There was a gathering after sifu passed way, and there is a record on what sifu called the set or how the set is.

So, why speculate something one doesnt know which could cause the art to be distorted?




As I mention before on what my chinese NeiGong sifu told me, when Some westerners went to China after the opium war, they started to VERIFY chinese history, NOpe, it cant be ten thousand years, so, it must be only 2 thousand years. and then when they saw the NeiGong and TCM, they said nope this is not scientific, it must be this way. this doesnt work we know better, and over night all everything the Chinese Done was wrong according to thier verifcation.

The truth and fact is Chinese art is losing big time. my NeiGong sifu is very sad when he mention this. he also told us, a few years ago there is a reporter got into train accident in China and brain dead, Western medicine cant do a thing. But with Traditional Chinese threatment the reporter got heal and awake. Everything has its characteristics, we just have to learn to observe what is what before speculate.



So,
if we love the art, and we would like to preserve the art. IMHO, stop non sense specualtion and stop to playing expert on the field one has no idea.



Since you ask me to share,
In the ancient time, one spend almost two years, everyday 2 hours just to practice breathing in the equal shoulder stance until one could know and handle the basic resonance and heat up the Dan Dien, entering the state, before could learn advance power generation. and today, how many hours do we stand in a year to claim we are an expert? expert in what? What is internal art? what is external art? if one doesnt even have a clue what research beside talking like a parrot? So ask ourself, could our Dan Die heat up at will? if not forget about investigating Yik Kam's SLT. one just has no ability to know it period, one doesnt have enought preparation.

even in the Cantonese opera, people practice the water sleeve for years and years.

But we today, search the web, has no transmision of the lineage, no process, no practice, and the more we speculate the more we think we are expert.

then we start to make claim that we are expert to judge others. That is how different between us and the old time.

As my late sifu GM Cho Hung-Choy taught us, train and not talk. eventhought GM Cho Hung-Choy is famous in Kong Sau in PG but he never ever talk about who he defeat to me in all the decade I study with him. He always told me kong sau is between person, never down play other's style. and it is not a hero to "sell news paper" on who you defeat.


further more, the 13 spear, there are different 13 spear and Yik kam lineage has its own uniqueness.

Howeve I am not going to release more information anymore because I have realized I was wrong to release information.

I do it with the heart of sharing. but others might take they are the expert after learning some ancient terminology--- they thought they know it all by just knowing the name. They are not wrong and I have to stop sharing to not mislead them.


peace

[Hendrik]

[QUOTE=Shadow_warrior8;752850]Hmmmm interesting point.
Just sharing my observations.

We did a test once with resistance, where one held a centreline fist, and took a step forward and the other pushed against both hands against the punching hand. It displaced the pusher. e.g chung choi and push

Then we did one where the centreline was not observed, fly elbow and it was not able to displace the person. e.g Bong Sao position and push

[QUOTE]



Shadow,

Since you are my junior, If I may, I would like to honestly tell you. you dont have clue on what WuJI is talking about and what you know doesnt work in real life. you could train another life time and you couldnt come close to Inch Jing Join Power. Not to mention the Chong JIng shake.

It is no accident that the Yee Chuan's founder WXZ parr with the White Craner. White Crane is no joke. IMHO.

Inch JIng join power is no Joke, it is much much faster and power full then your step foward stuffs which is very low technology in real application. it could be non stop issuing.... however, without process, one cant enter into the door.

There are White Crane High Hand including Eric here, so people can read our kung fu by just read our post. Be really carefull. They didnt say much because they have high moduk and high wisdom.

So, IMHO, this is a place to ask and learn. One can learn alots from these brothers and the clip.

If you know hokkien, lots of Key points has been reveal generously from Eric's clips. dont take it lightly.



I say enough, hope that I dont bore you to death

Peace

[Eric Ling]

Brother Hendrik,

Take it easy ... we have all sort of trees in the WuLin forest.

I had an unfortune experience of sending some of my White Crane stuff to a clown and he ended up abusing them even to this day.. but I'm okay;fire cannot cover paper.

To not share is, imho, inviting more speculations. This is also something that I discussed at length with many of the Masters that I've met these last few months. Many are, as you must know, from the conservatist school of thoughts as far as CKF is concerned. It's good to find out that they want to put out materials for all to examine.

And bro, remember, we are at different points in our journey ... enlightenment comes with efforts...

Got another clip from my Penang trip :-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0mmlMb-X9A

Master Saw is a refreshing change for me; english speaking and straight talking with strong views about how traditional arts should be imparted. He was kind enough to get 2 of his students to do some basic Monkey forms.

Master Saw also demonstrated a couple of his fighting techniques with his student, Douglas Elson, from England.

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Eric Ling]

Brother Hendrik,

Got another clip for you ....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieChbod8Z4E

Pics taken from various parts of Penang, some kung fu shots and schools etc...

Enjoy.

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Shadow_warrior8]

[QUOTE=Shadow_warrior8;752850]Hmmmm interesting point.
Just sharing my observations.

We did a test once with resistance, where one held a centreline fist, and took a step forward and the other pushed against both hands against the punching hand. It displaced the pusher. e.g chung choi and push

Then we did one where the centreline was not observed, fly elbow and it was not able to displace the person. e.g Bong Sao position and push

[QUOTE]



Shadow,

Since you are my junior, If I may, I would like to honestly tell you. you dont have clue on what WuJI is talking about and what you know doesnt work in real life. you could train another life time and you couldnt come close to Inch Jing Join Power. Not to mention the Chong JIng shake.

It is no accident that the Yee Chuan's founder WXZ parr with the White Craner. White Crane is no joke. IMHO.

Inch JIng join power is no Joke, it is much much faster and power full then your step foward stuffs which is very low technology in real application. it could be non stop issuing.... however, without process, one cant enter into the door.

There are White Crane High Hand including Eric here, so people can read our kung fu by just read our post. Be really carefull. They didnt say much because they have high moduk and high wisdom.

So, IMHO, this is a place to ask and learn. One can learn alots from these brothers and the clip.

If you know hokkien, lots of Key points has been reveal generously from Eric's clips. dont take it lightly.



I say enough, hope that I dont bore you to death

Peace

I appreciate your comments. And not just because you are a senior in Ban Chung.
A lifetime? Hmmmm.... I dont agree but partly because you are the person who told me about positive thinking and believing you can do it.
As for being clueless, well, what can I say, its been a long time since we have met. If I cant do it, I am sure some of my Sifus can. So they have provided some clues through the years

However, in the spirit of learning which is true humility, it is good for pondering, reflection and emptying of my cup. I am not one to claim I know enough or know it all.

Just so we are on the same page, This test was done in line with some of the structure tests(and we can find all the description on 1 page) that has been shared openly by other teachers and to test how the "angle" can affect the power. Its real in the essense because its simple.
Angle like this, power feels such, angle like that, power feels otherwise. When i say angle, I also mean the angle and alignment of the body. Some call this body structure. I like simple things, sometimes if things are said too vague, it makes it hard to understand, like chicken talking to duck, defeats the purpose of sharing online as well. So this was a simple test of angles, body angles.

It was not designed to test jing or real fighting.
I have witness similar tests by GM TST and my Sifu in internal arts. His dragon form, his elbows are in when he when opening, and elbows out when closing

My parents are hokkien so Eric's clips, excellent stuff. Keep it coming

[Shadow_warrior8]

You see, lot of people assume. and then using thier assumption to critic or verify others. instead of observe what is reality.



as for what my sifu called his knive set, as I said, take a poll in PG within my sihengs-dai and see what they called it.



You know why I mention these? because within our siheng-dai we are very close and Sifu treat all of us equal.

There was a gathering after sifu passed way, and there is a record on what sifu called the set or how the set is.

So, why speculate something one doesnt know which could cause the art to be distorted?




As I mention before on what my chinese NeiGong sifu told me, when Some westerners went to China after the opium war, they started to VERIFY chinese history, NOpe, it cant be ten thousand years, so, it must be only 2 thousand years. and then when they saw the NeiGong and TCM, they said nope this is not scientific, it must be this way. this doesnt work we know better, and over night all everything the Chinese Done was wrong according to thier verifcation.

The truth and fact is Chinese art is losing big time. my NeiGong sifu is very sad when he mention this. he also told us, a few years ago there is a reporter got into train accident in China and brain dead, Western medicine cant do a thing. But with Traditional Chinese threatment the reporter got heal and awake. Everything has its characteristics, we just have to learn to observe what is what before speculate.



So,
if we love the art, and we would like to preserve the art. IMHO, stop non sense specualtion and stop to playing expert on the field one has no idea.



Since you ask me to share,
In the ancient time, one spend almost two years, everyday 2 hours just to practice breathing in the equal shoulder stance until one could know and handle the basic resonance and heat up the Dan Dien, entering the state, before could learn advance power generation. and today, how many hours do we stand in a year to claim we are an expert? expert in what? What is internal art? what is external art? if one doesnt even have a clue what research beside talking like a parrot? So ask ourself, could our Dan Die heat up at will? if not forget about investigating Yik Kam's SLT. one just has no ability to know it period, one doesnt have enought preparation.

even in the Cantonese opera, people practice the water sleeve for years and years.

But we today, search the web, has no transmision of the lineage, no process, no practice, and the more we speculate the more we think we are expert.

then we start to make claim that we are expert to judge others. That is how different between us and the old time.

As my late sifu GM Cho Hung-Choy taught us, train and not talk. eventhought GM Cho Hung-Choy is famous in Kong Sau in PG but he never ever talk about who he defeat to me in all the decade I study with him. He always told me kong sau is between person, never down play other's style. and it is not a hero to "sell news paper" on who you defeat.


further more, the 13 spear, there are different 13 spear and Yik kam lineage has its own uniqueness.

Howeve I am not going to release more information anymore because I have realized I was wrong to release information.

I do it with the heart of sharing. but others might take they are the expert after learning some ancient terminology--- they thought they know it all by just knowing the name. They are not wrong and I have to stop sharing to not mislead them.


peace


I agree with Bro Eric. Its the lack of sharing that is creating the problems. And from his clips, he has had alot of masters sharing, hence we are able to reap the rewards from his hard work. And he himself shares with us, so its all good. And I appreciate his open sharing. Carlsberg on me when you come to singapore.
As you mentioned Hendrik, if we search the net we dont see lineage, transmission etc.... that to me, is because of a lack of sharing.

But unto something else instead of silly tests.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2Qvo_BUmNU

[Hendrik]

[QUOTE=Hendrik;752853][QUOTE=Shadow_warrior8;752850]Hmmmm interesting point.
Just sharing my observations.

We did a test once with resistance, where one held a centreline fist, and took a step forward and the other pushed against both hands against the punching hand. It displaced the pusher. e.g chung choi and push

Then we did one where the centreline was not observed, fly elbow and it was not able to displace the person. e.g Bong Sao position and push



I appreciate your comments. And not just because you are a senior in Ban Chung.
A lifetime? Hmmmm.... I dont agree but partly because you are the person who told me about positive thinking and believing you can do it.
As for being clueless, well, what can I say, its been a long time since we have met. If I cant do it, I am sure some of my Sifus can. So they have provided some clues through the years

However, in the spirit of learning which is true humility, it is good for pondering, reflection and emptying of my cup. I am not one to claim I know enough or know it all.

Just so we are on the same page, This test was done in line with some of the structure tests(and we can find all the description on 1 page) that has been shared openly by other teachers and to test how the "angle" can affect the power. Its real in the essense because its simple.
Angle like this, power feels such, angle like that, power feels otherwise. When i say angle, I also mean the angle and alignment of the body. Some call this body structure. I like simple things, sometimes if things are said too vague, it makes it hard to understand, like chicken talking to duck, defeats the purpose of sharing online as well. So this was a simple test of angles, body angles.

It was not designed to test jing or real fighting.
I have witness similar tests by GM TST and my Sifu in internal arts. His dragon form, his elbows are in when he when opening, and elbows out when closing

My parents are hokkien so Eric's clips, excellent stuff. Keep it coming



Shadow,


My appology for not using the proper word. "not tune in" is a proper word then "no clue" sorry again for my mistake.

It is ok to disagree with me.

and I am always believe positive thinking and you can do it.

However, there is a matter of direction, there needs a proper direction.
Thus, that is where the lineage or Transmission comes in.

Only with this type of transmission or process of the lineage then the art surface when one train in it.

without that one could not enter the state. without be able to experience the state. One's question or reaction will indicate where one is.

That is why in Chinese TCM, Transmission is very very very important it might even have less to do with who one learns from, for sifu might not transmit the lineage to everyone.


So, I hope to tell you the truth is not about not positive but about there is a directional issue.

and if you dont believe me and you dont have to believe me.

let's examine,

Say , Take, Go ki lat or 5 limp force and Cia te Kin Lat or eating Ground Root force of White Crane and eating crane. what is the different? until one knows it, terminology or our speculation means nothing. for us, we will have no idea, for Eric and Wu Ji and others there are lots of depth to it because of thier transmission and cultivation of Kung Fu. Those are the real things.




Today, we are offen trap in our own mind speculation and not knowing what is reality. and we dont even know that Transmission exist beyond the Set and theory.


Best Regards

[Hendrik]

I agree with Bro Eric. Its the lack of sharing that is creating the problems. And from his clips, he has had alot of masters sharing, hence we are able to reap the rewards from his hard work. And he himself shares with us, so its all good. And I appreciate his open sharing. Carlsberg on me when you come to singapore.
As you mentioned Hendrik, if we search the net we dont see lineage, transmission etc.... that to me, is because of a lack of sharing.

But unto something else instead of silly tests.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2Qvo_BUmNU


Certainly Brother Eric has a very good point.

I love to share enter into the State since the begining.

However, how many will heard the silence beyond the music ?

[Hendrik]

Brother Hendrik,

Take it easy ... we have all sort of trees in the WuLin forest.

I had an unfortune experience of sending some of my White Crane stuff to a clown and he ended up abusing them even to this day.. but I'm okay;fire cannot cover paper.....

To not share is, imho, inviting more speculations.
Warmest Regards.

Eric


Eric Siheng,

Thank you for your advise.

as for your unfortunate experience, I had similar stuffs to. have shared with people who will take the infor and return with trying to step me. hahaha

but as you said, fire cannot cover paper and more important IMHO Kung Fu is not from just know some information but be able to enter into the state as we all know.

As it said, Hang Chai Yee Choo Sou Bein Tze you mei you.


The Yik Kam's 13 spear 6.5 points have a "V" characteristics similar to other of Yik Kam's art which is differentiate from other lineages and style... this much for now so the general uniquness is known.

I have found people is using my information to boostrap themself up but in reality they dont know what they are talking about. As you know, even knowing a set doesnt mean one knows what is it. so I intent to stay out of the type of condition which creating and feeding monster.



Best Regards
Hendrik

[byond1]

Hi Brothers,

This for some odd reason has turned into a typical WCK forum type post. So that defeats the purpose, of me posting here, enjoying myself, talking with others - with open sharing. So i think im going to no longer post in any public forum, and simply focus on my research, and my training. To much negativity. But anyone who wants to keep up discusions please PM or email me. You will always find an open heart, and a smile, when contacting me.

Eric - Thank you so much, for all the hard work you have done. And thanks for sharing some great stuff on White Crane in these posts. You have really helped better my limited understanding, of Fuzhou Crane. I have hopes of formaly learning from Tek Guan, in the near future, and will keep you posted.

And i will always do my best to help preserve WCK traditions. It has added so much to my life, i could never repay the ancestors. But will sure do my best to try!!~


B

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[byond1]

"You guys must be knowing my sifu late Cho Hong-Choy much much much more then me. hahah "


Brother Hendrik - ?!? huh? I dont understand your responce ? !? I never said i knew CHC sifu. Why are you being so negative?? You were the person, who helped me see, that our thoughts, and what we focus on, help create our realities. Im sorry if what i said injured you some how. Since i followed your advice, so many things changed for the better in my life.

I didnt even mention ~CHC~ Branch of Cho Gar. I made a general statement "That name is unique to Cho Gar in my understanding" - "In my understanding" being the Key words. There are many branchs of Cho gar, just as there are many branchs of WCK and White Crane. I like to enjoy all the blossoms on the tree.


I never said i have studied Cho Gar, if thats what people have interpreted, let me make it very very clear. I have not studied Cho Gar WCK. I have studied several branchs of H.K WCK, Pan Nam WCK, and switched to YKS 6 years ago, and of cource i am only a student. I am no sifu. I am extremly low ranked in the branch i study, and normaly have to travel to learn it, and have work out partners. I am not the spokesperson, nor head of any branch of YKS WCK. I am not authorized to teach. I only share my opinions based on what my Sifu and Sisooks share with me. If not for my Sifu, i would still be in ignorance. So i owe it all to him, and several Sisooks, that were kind enough to teach me.

My sifu has taught me from day 1, that YKS WCK is a child of White Crane. This doesnt make it fact of cource. But thats why i carry on with my research - to find the truth, and to than put the truth out there, so others, have more information, to better make up their own minds.

The AWCKRI is working with almost every major and minor branch of WCK, helping preserve all the traditions. When i make a statement, that is based on the research founded by the AWCKRI, i explicitaly state it.

I hope this clears up any confussion.

And i hope the best for you and your family Hendrik Sihing.

B

[Hendrik]

"You guys must be knowing my sifu late Cho Hong-Choy much much much more then me. hahah "


Brother Hendrik - ?!? huh? I dont understand your responce ? !? I never said i knew CHC sifu. Why are you being so negative??

I didnt even mention ~CHC~ Branch of Cho Gar. I made a general statement "That name is unique to Cho Gar in my understanding" - "In my understanding" being the Key words. There are many branchs of Cho gar, just as there are many branchs of WCK and White Crane. I like to enjoy all the blossoms on the tree.


I never said i have studied Cho Gar, if thats what people have interpreted, let me make it very very clear. I have not studied Cho Gar WCK. B



Thanks for your sharing.


If you dont understand then ask, Why conclude I am being negative?


If you never studied , how could you understand ?


perhaps there is too many assumption made without a true understanding?





Best Regards

Hendrik

[Shadow_warrior8]

Its all GOOD!!!!
These forums serve for me not just learning in martial arts... but also makes me use my brain matter, i.e thinking about the points raised by others.
Makes me evaluate my thoughts, attitude to learning too.
Wuji has a great point, concur 100%.
Heard a cd by Anthony Robbins today. The gist, irregardless of the situation being good or bad, what can I learn from this. How can I improve myself??
Ni shui xing zhou, bu jing er tui yeah? Water following a bend either flows forward, or backwards. Lets all flow forward.....




People come from different background and training. Each has his/her own cumulative wisdom and skills from his/her teacher attained from independent experiences. What works is then hold as a personal "truth".

What works for someone might not work for another due to different factors interact together creating complexities. Factors such as posture, geographical background, etc. create different assumptions and solutions for martial art purposes.

One source might split into different branches each adapting to the local environment and the physique of the practitioners. Even students from a same teacher can make their own specializations.

Hence, concepts that make sense for someone could be senseless for another due to different assumptions and adaptations. One of my favorite saying is, "One's treasure is trash to another." A master can share everything that he knows. Even if we are lucky enough to understand what he means, we might disagree with him and think that his knowledge/skills are useless.

I learned a long time ago that arguing points in this environment is useless due to the aforementioned reasons. It is better to understand others' assumptions in doing their things: why do they do it that way? what are they trying to accomplish? Often it is also useful to think: if I face that kind of attack, how would I handle it using what I have already known?

I believe those are more useful than debating: why do people do things differently than I do, so which one is better?

It is best not to take criticism personally since the critics might not even know our background deeply. People are welcome to criticize me or my martial art. Yet, I would filter that criticism based on the critic's understanding, too. Better, if I think that the critic is credible, I'd ask him/her to show a better way. If I were a surrealist painter, I wouldn't be mad if a 4 years old came and told me that I didn't draw a good tomato because "it wasn't round and red", would I?

Martial art, like any other knowledge, is "T" shaped. Our own skills is the "I", the root and trunk. All others are the "-", the enrichment experiences. If we can see or own weaknesses by mirroring to others, that's great. Yet, the solution should come from our own, digging back to the root.

Preserving is good for historical and academic purposes. For practical purposes, the art has to be of your own.


"Research your own experience, Absorb what is useful, ... add what is specifically of your own." - Bruce Lee



PS Eric:

I heard about the 5 elements of the salutation. However, I think it is just a symbolization and not a formalization in Xingyiquan's sense.

[Shadow_warrior8]

Hi Brothers,

This for some odd reason has turned into a typical WCK forum type post. So that defeats the purpose, of me posting here, enjoying myself, talking with others - with open sharing. So i think im going to no longer post in any public forum, and simply focus on my research, and my training. To much negativity. But anyone who wants to keep up discusions please PM or email me. You will always find an open heart, and a smile, when contacting me.

Eric - Thank you so much, for all the hard work you have done. And thanks for sharing some great stuff on White Crane in these posts. You have really helped better my limited understanding, of Fuzhou Crane. I have hopes of formaly learning from Tek Guan, in the near future, and will keep you posted.

And i will always do my best to help preserve WCK traditions. It has added so much to my life, i could never repay the ancestors. But will sure do my best to try!!~


B

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Brian, its your passion for WCK that is coming forth. Just like the energy for your project. Its great stuff.
I know my sifu would be happy with me if I had this passion for researching like you do.
Keep going. Chinese say, Huo dao lao, xue dao lao. We live till we are old, we learn till we are old. (okay I suck at translating chinese to english)
Its not a straight road, but forward positive energy yeah??

[Shadow_warrior8]

Let me guess:

The test with the elbow fixed could not handle a stronger force?

That position is good to close your gate, but won't make you capable of resisting a stronger force.

The best experts for accepting strong "push" attack (as opposed to snap like a jab) are Taijiquan and Baguazhang masters. If you have an acquaintance who is a master in one of these styles, it is worthwhile to listen to his/her opinions.


I am not trying to undermining a certain style/lineage/master. It is just a common observation. Try to play with it and please share with us. Thanks.

kung fu is about test and retest between training :).

Thanks for sharing. Will try if I can and report findings. Good stuff

[Hendrik]

IMHO,

The nature which dealing with the" clamping or not clamping stuffs " could be catagorized into 4 states. as the ancient chinese put it, Open, Close, ascending, and descending. There not fixed but the flow will transform from one state to the other one based on the condition and situation.


IMHO,

the general issue is we lost the understanding of the Open, Close, Ascend, and Descend. We dont know what it is, we then lead to have no idea how to handle our body in these state, further more, have no idea how to handle the breathing, and the Qi flow.

So, IMHO, what I am trying to brought up is this 4 state must be understood to be able to let things flow.



how could we test if we dont know all the state of a car's gear? forward, reverse, neutral....etc.

and

if we continous on to think fix neutral or fix forward position is the ultimate without knowing the existance of the other, we couldnt drive a car eventhought in reality we could argue put the car in neutral position and pulling it forward and backward with a horse make is moving forward and back ward.


just some opinion.

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Brothers, since I am the most senior (biologically the oldest I mean), kindly allow me to say a few words here:-

My late teacher taught that real kung fu must be “mor” – translated to polishing or grinding… Friction is inherent in such a process and that’s exactly what’s going on here. It happens when kung fu skills and knowledge are imparted or shared. We must stay the course and not allow egos, chauvinism or politics to mess up the spirit of learning and sharing. The primary reason I walked from Wu Lin Tien Ti is precisely because some members were getting political and I don’t like the mix. I love CKF and I firmly believe that Wu Lin is Yi Jia and if we all behave with the proper decorum, a state of harmony should prevail regardless of how much “grinding” is going on.

Brother Hendrik, you are obviously a “tau heng” here. Your understanding of the inner arts transcends many of us here and we look to you for directions and can I humbly suggest that you lead us like a “tau heng”; not all of us can keep pace with you and you need to be patient sometimes. I, for one, am a real slow learner ……

Brother Brain and Bertrand, love your energies. I sometimes wish that I still have that fire in me to keeping digging and probing but when you get to my state …. Still, “Zhang Jiang” will be driven by waves created by the likes of you two. Stay the course, that’s the real test.


I think much of the “collisions” could be simply a case of misunderstanding. My English is atrocious and oftentimes I am very concerned about being misinterpreted because of the awkward ways I write and coming from different cultures could also contribute to some of the misconceptions.

But the fact that we are congregating here must mean that we all love doing it. So let try to be more tolerant; isn’t this what “moduk” is all about?

Maybe we could all learn something from this Grand Master, Chia (or Seah in Teochew) Yan Soon, the current chief of Singapore Hong Sheng Koon Choy Li Fut.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9M7eH7yaH-0

In the clip, you’ll see GM Chia talking about how the various styles express the same techniques without any pride or prejudice…

And I think the most important bit is that he was so patient talking to me, a nobody relatively, with so much keenness….

I got so much to learn …..

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[chasincharpchui]

you the guy tse sifu is speaking to?

[Jim Roselando]

Hello all,


Nice thread. Its good to see research being shared from all parties. It was bound to happen that the cousins meet up with their research. Wing Chun and Crane that is! I can even let you guys know that my old south mantis sifu is living in Mainland China researching the Jook Lum roots and is now travelling to Fukien to speak with White Crane lineages about their 108 boxing etc.. Tha ball is rolling from many angles and all arriving in a similar root. :)

The Internal Gong needs to be clearly defined. Hendrik is big on making sure the classical understanding is there. The relationship with the body and the different layers. heart & mind methods, body cultivation (gong), breath and spine flow etc..

Internal power dna cultivation within our arts are show a lot. The Wai Gong and Noi Gong are specific methods of development and Wing Chun and White Crane share much but each unique. Wai Gong we strengthen the muscles, tendons, sinews, bones etc. and Noi gong we train the breath/hay methods. This is why we can see the San Chin root is different dna from Siu Lin root even tho the core boxing/jing model is there. What makes Wing Chun different from the other of-shoot systems of Crane is the Snake DNA. The Rou platform.

Keep sharing all!

:)

[Eric Ling]

you the guy tse sifu is speaking to?

Yes, that's right.

Video was shot when I visited HSK Singapore to invite them to the gathering this September.

Will be meeting up with them again end of this month for a dinner and further discussions regarding participation.

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[TenTigers]

Jim check your pm's

[Eric Ling]

Ooookay, now that I am back in Kuching, got a bit of time before I fly off again…

I will work on materials collected from this trip for sharing.

Starting with this :- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GL2YjBpCNng

Singapore Kong Chow Hui Koon’s video documentary; like I said this club is like a mini-museum of CKF with so much history.

I was told by Sifu Leong that many Masters from various styles taught there and now they are even teaching Wing Chun; exactly which stream is something I intend to find out and hopefully video the next time I visit which should be end of this month.

And oh yes, you’ll see a youngish Sifu Leong in the clip; he is the high hand with the broadsword and 9 sections whip … can’t miss him, his name is announced in English – Sifu Leong Kwok Khuen.

Enjoy.

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Bertrand, yes Kong (Khong) Chow in front of Pearl Centre.

Master Ku is behind the Wing Chun class? Great, I will be in Khong Chow again end of this month.

Could you kindly ask Master Ku to contact me – the same Malaysia mobile phone #s I gave you, I am on auto-roaming.

Got another clip here extracted from a VCD given by GM Chia Yan Soon of Singapore Hong Sheng Koon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxpWS6ijSmU

GM Yan gave me a bunch and I will try to post as much as possible from them.

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Hendrik]

[QUOTE=Shadow_warrior8;752497]Here's an interesting interpretation of Yan Chee Dao by Master Wong Kiew Kit

http://wongkk.com/video-clips-2/weapons/butterfly-knives/butterfly.html





Shadow,


Now I have sometimes. I would like to clearify this important issue for you and to the general public around the world.






The other day, when I am commenting you know my sifu more then me.


You want to know why?




In front of our eyes.

What sifu Wong Kiew Kit Shows in the above website is 100000% NOT the set my late sifu GM Cho Hung-Choy transmitting.




The Cho family set begin with a Ban Jong salutation....


There are plenty of Cho family decendents know my sifu's set in Penang and also we have video about it.


Sifu Wong is my siheng, and indeed teaches me some san sau of other style when we met. However, I really hope these type un-intentional naming and presentation stop because that distorted my sifu Late GM Cho Hung-Choy's art and it is misleading.



I dont like to post this type of post. However, if I dont speak up that is not respecting my sifu's teaching.


and I hope those who collect Website information stop thinking they are expert or pioneer in WCK. As confusius said, if one dont know then said dont know. that is the smartest way.



-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Brother Shadow - Much love for Wong Sifu, and a great find. Yan Jee Dao or Character "Yan"/Man swords are rare indeed. That name is unique to Cho Gar in my understanding. Wong Sifus set has a second knife set integrated i believe.



"You guys must be knowing my sifu late Cho Hong-Choy much much much more then me. hahah " ---HS



Brother Hendrik - ?!? huh? I dont understand your responce ? !? I never said i knew CHC sifu. Why are you being so negative??

I didnt even mention ~CHC~ Branch of Cho Gar. I made a general statement "That name is unique to Cho Gar in my understanding" - "In my understanding" being the Key words. There are many branchs of Cho gar, just as there are many branchs of WCK and White Crane. I like to enjoy all the blossoms on the tree."---------


Now, from the above mis-presentation and

look at those comment which has no clue on what is happening but pretending like know it all.

Asked ourself is this type of comment PRESERVING art or DISTROTing art? do one misleading others to boost one's ego on the expense of others?

hopefully we all learn from this lesson.




Best Regards
Hendrik

[Hendrik]

Hi everybody,

Bertrand, yes Kong (Khong) Chow in front of Pearl Centre.

Master Ku is behind the Wing Chun class? Great, I will be in Khong Chow again end of this month.

Could you kindly ask Master Ku to contact me – the same Malaysia mobile phone #s I gave you, I am on auto-roaming.

to post as much as possible from them.

Warmest Regards.

Eric


Eric Siheng,

Great if you meet brother Ku. have a great meeting.
Please help to send my warm regards to him.

I am pretty busy these days, otherwise, I will hop on the plane and in S'pore to drink tea with you both.


Best Regards
Hendrik

[Hendrik]

[QUOTE=Hendrik;754204]

Hmmmm.......I definately learnt the form differently from Sifu and it looks nothing like Sifu Wong's interpretation....





1, it is better not speculate or share when one is not sure what it is. otherwise it is causing others to waste energy and misleading.

Lets be part of the solution to preserve art instead of a part of the problem. For whatever we post there is a responsibility comes with it.


2, In fact your sifu had told me, Sifu Ku had made a visit to him on a certain claim he made on Cho family art. But, as your sifu told me, they didnt met. Ask your sifu about the incident.



3, The term "interpretation" is stretching these day,

such as I read in news paper that there is Shao Lin meat ham, and Hi Vitamine C soft drink that has little or none Vitamine C.


So, lets us all be a part of solution instead of contributing to more problem. It is always easy to not link Shao Lin to Ham and then one doesnt have to play mind or words game.


Best Regards

[Hendrik]

IMHO,


let's look at 宗劲 Chong Jing and 寸勁節力 Inch Jing join power about White Crane Jing.


Brother Eric and Wuji and other high hands, please advise and correct me for my ignorance,





Thus, I have heard, ,


Chong Jing is said to be the jing similar to generated with a soft whip. it is a type of bouncing/springing type of Jing.
宗劲就像一条软鞭发的劲. 宗劲是一种弹劲



Inch Jing is a type of penetrating and explosive Jing.
寸劲是一种透劲、炸劲。

Join power is due to to issu this type of Inch Jing one needs the support of the Join power.
寸劲一定要借助节力


Those who has master Chong Jing could issue or emulate similar to Inch Jing type of power. as if the whip's body is soft but the tip of the whip is hard.

宗劲练的好的人，可以在发宗劲时发出类似于寸劲的劲力. 比方就是鞭身要软，而鞭头要硬。



HOwever, those who mastered Inch Jing will not be able to generate Chong Jing because

而寸劲发的再好也不能发出宗劲。



This is due to these two types of power generation are different and they have differences interm of the level of depth.

两者发力形态不同。




Chong Jing needs indepth Internal training to master it. and Inch Jing is not as demanin in the internal training.






With the above, we know today, the Yik Kam lineage of SLT is supposed to cultivate a type of Jing close to Chong Jing. and the methodology of cultivation is using the Emei 12 Zhuang's snake slide worm move technology.

Thus, when this type of power is master, it provide the practitioner a type of Energized "Water sleeve" which could activate 1, Reel, flip bounce... (for stick, link, feel......), 2, issuing Chong JIng or Inch Jing type of Jing at will.


For those who have no idea what is a "water sleeve" the following is a good clip about "water sleeve" or the sleeve of the role in the cantonese opera, pay attention to the female role and how she uses her sleeve.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vg4R4aVCMkM



BTW,

IMHO,

There are three keys uniqueness of Yik Kam's WCK.

1, Slandering enter the main gate
2, Mai San Ciem or Close body reel for stick/seal..etc
3, Energize water sleeve power.

Just some thoughts

[Eric Ling]

Brother Hendrik.

In my limited knowledge:-

• Chong Jing, like your Chinese text says, is whipping power; to strike an object and penetrating yet without locking or ending with a hard tip; exactly like a whip. I am speaking for the Fuzhou Cranes in my experience. Most of our techniques employ this jing and that is why our techniques are mainly ying/yang palms in a slapping motion, knife-edge and phoenix fist delivered in a flicking manner. These are the shapes that best deliver Chong Jing without locking of joints. One thing I want to add and that is the waist (qua) plays the pivot role in the generation of this jing. It is recorded in the kuit that “the waist is like a bow and the arms are like arrows”. To “spring” the waist now is essentially an act of collapsing and expanding or “sinking and floating”. Because the arms and body stay relaxed during most part of this whipping, the body gives off an appearance of “shaking” thus this form of jing is named as “shaking” or “vibrating”.

• Inch power calls for stiffening of the whipping jing and must be done in an “explosive” manner because you don’t have the play of distance. It’s still staying loose, launch from the waist and locking the arm (harden) for penetration at the point of impact. Timing is everything; lock too early, you are really negating your power.


• Joint power, imho, is very clearly seen in systems like Yong Chun White Crane, Tai Chor, Ngo Chor, Ngo Mei, Fong Yang and even to some extent Saolim. Like I said, almost like inch power except that you come in from a distance and locking at the point of impact. I said this before elsewhere that I think Karate is most probably heavily influenced by some of these systems because if you examine, this is how most karates behave.

As to the statement that Chong and joint jing cannot co-exist, I think otherwise. Chong jin is the fundamental (according to my definition above) and joint jing is one of the possible by-products.

I cannot comment on your WC because I don’t do Wing Chun. But this
I will tell you, when I was playing with Sifu Cheong (Wing Chun Penang), he was almost totally relaxed and exerting only near target (me). In this respect, I can understand what you mean when you say “snake” gung… To penetrate, you sometimes have to stay relaxed like a slithering snake…

Bro, like I said, words always fail me.

Come to Kuching this September and we can touch hands and play….and destroy a couple of Carlsberg.

Warmest Regards.

Eric:)

[Hendrik]

Eric Siheng,

Thank you for your detail post on the White Crane power generation.

I always could learn more from you and Wuji. I certainly agree with Wuji power generation is very very very important. for me it is similar to the weapon, they need to be able to deliver and suit the uniqueness of the style.



Thank for your invitation. If God intent me to go then I will go. Some days we will meet and have a cup of happy tea. ( I have become a buddist under Sigong Sek KoSam's lineage 28 years ago. So no alchohol allowed. No figthing either. :D)




I was checking my old video tapes collection from PG last night and found one master tape was damaged. Luckily I got extral back up copy... I wrote what I wrote about the uniqueness of Yik Kam post after that because I somehow has this feeling of urgency that things could lost forever if nothing was said or reveal now. Very glad that you recognized the "snake". and I am sure my senior sifu Cheong is doing much much better then me.

IMHO, Tan sau, Bong Sau...etc IMHO are general tools for WCK.
and every lineage has thier uniqueness, and that uniqueness has to be supported via the power generation, the stratergy of the door/gate opening, and the shape-potential of the lineage. Thus, in the Yik Kam lineage, these briefy summarized into

1, Slandering enter the main gate
2, Mai San Ciem or Close body reel for stick/seal..etc
3, Energize water sleeve power.

I hope these is carry on in SEA... and the yong generation know what is their uniqueness instead of just doing the general Tan Sau....etc.
There are depth which I still dont know about the Yik Kam lineage, and I only can contribute what I know.


Finally, what I have learn is, the full name of the six point half pole 13 spear is Fan Gate six point half pole 13 spear.

Fan is similar to the chinese Fan http://www.chinesemoods.com/chinesefansart.html

Fan Gate / door is about the V shape pole facing characteristics of this type of pole. V is always a trademark of Yik Kam 's WCK.
there are 13 spear type and the six and half points are hidden in the set.




In additional, The 0.5 point is 半点子午定太平 or half point of center stable the Tai Ping. ( Tai Ping could be very very possible the Tai Ping heavenly kingdom.

This 半点子午定太平 also echo with the close salutation of the fist set 劍指膀肘逞英雄.

As we know today, 英雄 was used in 1850 as Hung Mun or Tie Tee Hui.... related code.

So, the couplet

劍指膀肘逞英雄
半点子午定太平

doesnt seem to be an accident but it means something as my late sifu Cho Hong-Choy told me ---" those code are used when two party meet." all of these are very very likely pointing toward Yik Kam's involvement in the uprising of Lee Man-Mau.




Thanks again for your passionate in preserving the CMA in SEA.

With Respect,

Best Regards
Hendrik

[byond1]

Brother Hendrik

With all due respect,

Your ego is getting the best of you. Please reflect on your actions. You cant even let go of something as simple, as someone disagreeing with you. All over the internet, you have to try to show others, how little they know, and that they could never hope to understand ~Your~ information or methods (which, as others have brought to your attention, many have access to). And everyone speculates but you??

I have to tell you the truth, and i hope one day, you will become aware of this, for your own benefit. You do not represent Cho Family, nor Yik Kam. You learned from one of many masters within Cho family and Ban Chung WCK. Please try to maintain the dignity of the great Cho Family, by not speaking for others. You speak for yourself. No one else. Im sure your opinion is always welcome. But seperate opinion from fact.

Now if i am wrong, than please provide documentation showing CHC sifu made you his inheritor, and that you are the public spokesperson for CHC Branch of Ban Chung.

You accuse others of speculating, and yet you speculate on what Cho Gar WCK was like ancestraly, via ~your~ interpretation of Cho Kuen Kuit. You even go as far to speculate, what Grandmaster Sum Nung did or didnt teach. Hence in another forum you are asked to not speculate on these things.

You dont know me, nor who i have learned from, nor have you ever met me, so dont assume to judge me or my intentions.

When i make posts, i am always clear on where my information comes from. If its simply my opinion based on something i was told my one of my teachers, i explicitaly state that. If its simply something ive been told, i state, "my sifu told me." If its based on the research i have done with the AWCKRI, i state that.
As i have said, i am not a spokesperson, nor sifu for YKS WCK. I am only a student. And i have to travel to learn, so i am a commuter. I only know what has been passed down to me, and what my research, with the AWCKRI, has uncovered. Nothing more.

The AWCKRIs research speaks for itself. There are many things in the WCK world you and many others may not know about, which plays into our research, that we have been the first to document, and expose to the west.
For example Lo Kwai, a student of Leung Jan, has passed down within his family, a Single Form, that contains the standard WCK Hand forms. Similar to Cho Family SLT. They have a very defined oral tradition and history. This is a masive discovery for the WCK world, and will help contribute greatly to defining the ancestral roots of the WCK system. So dont assume to know what our research is or isnt.

I have defended you numerous times, as i actually thought you had positive intent. But now i see the truth, and i am the one with egg on my face.

B


I am sorry to all my other kung fu brothers, for having to post something of this nature, in the middle of so much generosity and sharing. But because im part, of an organization, that is doing research on the White crane and WCKs connection, slander is a dangerous animal, that needs to be addressed, as it breeds stryfe and disrupts harmony. It can also effect the very delicate relasionships built up over years. And if anyone doubts my intent and love for CMA, WCK and WCrane, than simply meet me and than judge me.

[Hendrik]

Brother Hendrik

With all due respect,

Your ego is getting the best of you. Please reflect on your actions. You cant even let go of something as simple, as someone disagreeing with you. All over the internet, you have to try to show others, how little they know, and that they could never hope to understand ~Your~ information or methods (which, as others have brought to your attention, many have access to). And everyone speculates but you??

I have to tell you the truth, and i hope one day, you will become aware of this, for your own benefit. You do not represent Cho Family, nor Yik Kam. You learned from one of many masters within Cho family and Ban Chung WCK. Please try to maintain the dignity of the great Cho Family, by not speaking for others. You speak for yourself. No one else. Im sure your opinion is always welcome. But seperate opinion from fact.

Now if i am wrong, than please provide documentation showing CHC sifu made you his inheritor, and that you are the public spokesperson for CHC Branch of Ban Chung.

You accuse others of speculating, and yet you speculate on what Cho Gar WCK was like ancestraly, via ~your~ interpretation of Cho Kuen Kuit. You even go as far to speculate, what Grandmaster Sum Nung did or didnt teach. Hence in another forum you are asked to not speculate on these things.

You dont know me, nor who i have learned from, nor have you ever met me, so dont assume to judge me or my intentions.

When i make posts, i am always clear on where my information comes from. If its simply my opinion based on something i was told my one of my teachers, i explicitaly state that. If its simply something ive been told, i state, "my sifu told me." If its based on the research i have done with the AWCKRI, i state that.
As i have said, i am not a spokesperson, nor sifu for YKS WCK. I am only a student. And i have to travel to learn, so i am a commuter. I only know what has been passed down to me, and what my research, with the AWCKRI, has uncovered. Nothing more.

The AWCKRIs research speaks for itself. There are many things in the WCK world you and many others may not know about, which plays into our research, that we have been the first to document, and expose to the west.
For example Lo Kwai, a student of Leung Jan, has passed down within his family, a Single Form, that contains the standard WCK Hand forms. Similar to Cho Family SLT. They have a very defined oral tradition and history. This is a masive discovery for the WCK world, and will help contribute greatly to defining the ancestral roots of the WCK system. So dont assume to know what our research is or isnt.

I have defended you numerous times, as i actually thought you had positive intent. But now i see the truth, and i am the one with egg on my face.

B


I am sorry to all my other kung fu brothers, for having to post something of this nature, in the middle of so much generosity and sharing. But because im part, of an organization, that is doing research on the White crane and WCKs connection, slander is a dangerous animal, that needs to be addressed, as it breeds stryfe and disrupts harmony. It can also effect the very delicate relasionships built up over years. And if anyone doubts my intent and love for CMA, WCK and WCrane, than simply meet me and than judge me.



Thank you for your opinion and accusation based on your logic and speculation.



If you think I was wrong,
then please discard all the information on your website and your book, which is based on me. and also, stop to use all the lead or person in contact which I have given you for your research to get you this far.

if you dont like mine or others' technical opinion/discussion on the WCK then just ignore them.


That simple, Why so much complain and judgement?



See,

you and I are different, we live in a different world, and we value different value. Nothing good or bad about the different.

I value technical discussion and would like to keep it that way. and I share the data points on the technical discussion or idea I have for the discussion. other might agree or disagree that is fine with me.

if anyone think I am wrong and provide technical reasoning, then I would be realy thankfull and apprecite to learn from them. That simple.

again, any one could discard what I present or share, that simple, no one has to take what I post as the truth. Everyone has thier free will to choose for themself.





You like the title and spoke person, .....etc or who prove to who who is who. That is sure also a part of the history of WCK research. However, That is not my area of interest.


Our world is different so, so long. and may you be successfull.
This way you are free and I am free.




Best Regards
Hendrik

[Shadow_warrior8]

IMHO,


let's look at 宗劲 Chong Jing and 寸勁節力 Inch Jing join power about White Crane Jing.


Brother Eric and Wuji and other high hands, please advise and correct me for my ignorance,





Thus, I have heard, ,


Chong Jing is said to be the jing similar to generated with a soft whip. it is a type of bouncing/springing type of Jing.
宗劲就像一条软鞭发的劲. 宗劲是一种弹劲



Inch Jing is a type of penetrating and explosive Jing.
寸劲是一种透劲、炸劲。

Join power is due to to issu this type of Inch Jing one needs the support of the Join power.
寸劲一定要借助节力


Those who has master Chong Jing could issue or emulate similar to Inch Jing type of power. as if the whip's body is soft but the tip of the whip is hard.

宗劲练的好的人，可以在发宗劲时发出类似于寸劲的劲力. 比方就是鞭身要软，而鞭头要硬。



HOwever, those who mastered Inch Jing will not be able to generate Chong Jing because

而寸劲发的再好也不能发出宗劲。



This is due to these two types of power generation are different and they have differences interm of the level of depth.

两者发力形态不同。




Chong Jing needs indepth Internal training to master it. and Inch Jing is not as demanin in the internal training.






With the above, we know today, the Yik Kam lineage of SLT is supposed to cultivate a type of Jing close to Chong Jing. and the methodology of cultivation is using the Emei 12 Zhuang's snake slide worm move technology.

Thus, when this type of power is master, it provide the practitioner a type of Energized "Water sleeve" which could activate 1, Reel, flip bounce... (for stick, link, feel......), 2, issuing Chong JIng or Inch Jing type of Jing at will.


For those who have no idea what is a "water sleeve" the following is a good clip about "water sleeve" or the sleeve of the role in the cantonese opera, pay attention to the female role and how she uses her sleeve.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vg4R4aVCMkM



BTW,

IMHO,

There are three keys uniqueness of Yik Kam's WCK.

1, Slandering enter the main gate
2, Mai San Ciem or Close body reel for stick/seal..etc
3, Energize water sleeve power.

Just some thoughts


Water sleeves, something great to ponder on.

Following your lead, I went to watch opera and discover the following. The lady was the one with short sleves and the man was the one with long sleves. I was surprised and thought, maybe its hokkien opera thats why.
Will post the recording of opera on youtube when I can. Its not clear though but you can see the sleves clearly.

But when we look at this cantonese representation we see,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fn9p8p_Q8Rg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RLgBZAr9-o

Same.

So Yik Kam was a fa tan. And he had short sleves? Kwan Gong have long sleves?? Got to ask my dad, he spent years in cantonese opera.

Somemore research and following of the lead needed. Cool..... get to use brain matter. Thanks for the lead Hendrik

[Hendrik]

[QUOTE=Hendrik;754327]

I think it fair to say, you are saying something about the knife form.

Its good sometimes not to say everything too openly, but also good to make sure

your message goes to the person you intended. Too vague. loses it value. Not

about mind or word games, we have no need for that. We dont need to fan min

about things in life. Like or dont like, its just in the heart.

I really dont see it as a problem. He is openly sharing his stuff on the net, and he

openly stated his point that it is a combined knife form.

If I were him, I would think, if I dont give tribute people will call me fan gwat. If I

do, people would say I change the form. My 2 cents. Hard to please everyone.

I dont see how my Sifu's name has anything to do with Wong Kiew Kit's sharing

of his sifu's form. If they met, or didnt meet, not relevant.




Ok. Thank you for your sharing of your thoughts.

as for what you think if you were him, that is great. always has to think different side.

however :

have you ever think if you were Yik Kam or Cho On or Cho Hung-Choy? what will they think when they observe thier descendent doesnt defend thier WCK and confuse about what is thier WCK?


Your sifu, Sifu Ku Choy-Wah did his very best to preserve what Cho family passed down. That I am certain and respect. I could sure tell him the same as you tell me here when he told me he went to see Wong. but I didnt because I believe there is right and wrong in this world need to be differentiate.

Have you ever ever wonder why I praise my senior Sifu Cheong and not impress about what my siheng does?

This I could tell you, I hope Sifu Cheong could live a long life, so that Yik Kam's WCK could be passed down closer to Yik Kam's teaching. as for the Localized Evolution stuffs which my siheng does, I honestly cant call those as WCK.


I leave my case at rest here, I Let Go and Let God.


Best Regards

[Shadow_warrior8]

Brother Hendrik.

In my limited knowledge:-

• Chong Jing, like your Chinese text says, is whipping power; to strike an object and penetrating yet without locking or ending with a hard tip; exactly like a whip. I am speaking for the Fuzhou Cranes in my experience. Most of our techniques employ this jing and that is why our techniques are mainly ying/yang palms in a slapping motion, knife-edge and phoenix fist delivered in a flicking manner. These are the shapes that best deliver Chong Jing without locking of joints. One thing I want to add and that is the waist (qua) plays the pivot role in the generation of this jing. It is recorded in the kuit that “the waist is like a bow and the arms are like arrows”. To “spring” the waist now is essentially an act of collapsing and expanding or “sinking and floating”. Because the arms and body stay relaxed during most part of this whipping, the body gives off an appearance of “shaking” thus this form of jing is named as “shaking” or “vibrating”.

• Inch power calls for stiffening of the whipping jing and must be done in an “explosive” manner because you don’t have the play of distance. It’s still staying loose, launch from the waist and locking the arm (harden) for penetration at the point of impact. Timing is everything; lock too early, you are really negating your power.


• Joint power, imho, is very clearly seen in systems like Yong Chun White Crane, Tai Chor, Ngo Chor, Ngo Mei, Fong Yang and even to some extent Saolim. Like I said, almost like inch power except that you come in from a distance and locking at the point of impact. I said this before elsewhere that I think Karate is most probably heavily influenced by some of these systems because if you examine, this is how most karates behave.

As to the statement that Chong and joint jing cannot co-exist, I think otherwise. Chong jin is the fundamental (according to my definition above) and joint jing is one of the possible by-products.

I cannot comment on your WC because I don’t do Wing Chun. But this
I will tell you, when I was playing with Sifu Cheong (Wing Chun Penang), he was almost totally relaxed and exerting only near target (me). In this respect, I can understand what you mean when you say “snake” gung… To penetrate, you sometimes have to stay relaxed like a slithering snake…

Bro, like I said, words always fail me.

Come to Kuching this September and we can touch hands and play….and destroy a couple of Carlsberg.

Warmest Regards.

Eric:)

Thank you Bro Eric and Hendrik for this. It really helps to understand jing. Already

I learnt alot from both of you, guo sao, high hands.

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Another clip here featuring Singapore Zhou Jia / Chow Gar Sifu Royce Ang’s students.

You’ll see 2 forms:-

• Li Gar spear
• Double Daggers

In the clip, you should be able to hear Sifu Ang explaining that Malaysia does another “Li Gar Spear” form which is dissimilar to Singapore’s.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oXf_FRnECQ

Warmest Regards.

Eric


ps Bertrand - don't mention ... simple "skin hair" skill only .....:) :) :)

[Hendrik]

Thank you Bro Eric and Hendrik for this. It really helps to understand jing. Already

I learnt alot from both of you, guo sao, high hands.


Thank Eric for contribute so much. and also, Cheong Elderly generous in sharing his art.


Best Regards

[Hendrik]

Water sleeves, something great to ponder on.

Following your lead, I went to watch opera and discover the following. The lady was the one with short sleves and the man was the one with long sleves. I was surprised and thought, maybe its hokkien opera thats why.
Will post the recording of opera on youtube when I can. Its not clear though but you can see the sleves clearly.

But when we look at this cantonese representation we see,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fn9p8p_Q8Rg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RLgBZAr9-o

Same.

So Yik Kam was a fa tan. And he had short sleves? Kwan Gong have long sleves?? Got to ask my dad, he spent years in cantonese opera.

Somemore research and following of the lead needed. Cool..... get to use brain matter. Thanks for the lead Hendrik



Shadow,

Just to share some thoughts with you since you are very sincere to learning.

IMHO,

Mastering in Kung fu, one needs realization.

As it said, Study has no senior or junior, those who master the topic is the master.

So, the instant one realized, one will know what is and what is not, disregard of title or position of a person or the race of a person or the age of the person.

So, IMHO, Realization is the most precious. It is beyond title and position.

Only with realization, one know the kung fu is with one. as it said by my late sifu, one has entered the chamber/room. and sometimes, this take years or even decades.



Water Sleeve is an analogy. using the analogy of "Doing White Crane with Water Sleeve" is a way to "pointing" at the moon, the type of energy is which is you need to look for, not the sleeve itself and it is not about female or male. if you see only white Crane and water sleeve seperately, you will not see the moon.

when you could see the "moon", then when you review sifu Cheong's clip, you will see the snake or the Emei part of the art clearly. you will see how he enter with slanding, how he did close body reel ...etc. because you know the signature of the art. IMHO.

keep up your research. Great job.


Best Regards

[byond1]

Hi Brothers,



"If you think I was wrong, then please discard all the information on your website and your book, which is based on me." HS


++Brother Hendrik, please dont let your bruised ego allow you to try and hurt me, by removing your info from the WCKpedia. The Pedia isnt about me or you. Its not about me making value judgments on the differing opinions. Its about everyones opinions being represented. It doesnt matter if i agree or not, as its not about me or my opinion. Its about putting your research, as well as contrary research, for everyone to have access to, so they can make up their own minds. Knowledge is empowerment.

When i asked you if i could put up your posts into the pedia, you told me They were posted, for the public, and you no longer owned them, and i could use them as i wished. I spent over 15 hours collecting information from you, to spread your opinions on ~Technical Matters~.

It wasnt until you started talking deragatory about me, when you branched off from Technical discussion and ventured into Ego stroking, that i was insulted. This has nothing to do with research though. You attack my credibility, so i deflected it back to you. Im sorry you didnt like it.

And to clairfiy for you, there is no information of ~yours~, that is in the AWCKRIs book. 18.5 years ago Sifu Grayson taught me about the Snake and the Crane. From that day i saw and felt the connections. Since than i have investigated the snake and crane connection. I have a diary of my research, and i made numerous connections between WCK and White crane prior to gleaning any wisdom from you. What you did was add to what i knew. You were the first to actually bring up the Wu Hsing Sau, as well as the Chao Yang Sau being connected to WCK.

Technicaly you know ALOT. Much more than i.
And i have learned alot in General from your postings. But when you make slanderous statments against me, when i didnt diserve it, i have the right to defend my reputation.




"and also, stop to use all the lead or person in contact which I have given you for your research to get you this far. "

Actually the truth is i started a friendship with a student of Lee Kangs 6 months ago, and i have the emails to prove it. I was also investigating Pan family system from before that time due to a post Martin made on KFO. Several months ago, i posted in a public forum, asking opinions on what White Crane is ~most~related to WCK, to help fine tune my focus. Robert Chu was the first to suggest looking at the Taiwan convention DVDs, as such he was a great help. Than You posted, that I should look into Lee Kang and Pan Family branchs. ~Confirming~ the direction, i was already going into.




"if you dont like mine or others' technical opinion/discussion on the WCK then just ignore them."" HS

Actually i love all the technical opinions and discussions. Thats why i post. But i wont be part of turning something, that is about Erics great work, into another WCK soap opera.
I have always respected you and stood up for you, and just because i have a differant opinion on "How internal" WCK was ancestraly, has nothing to do with my responce to you. It was you attacking and judging me. Im sorry you cant see that.




""That simple, Why so much complain and judgement?"" HS

You really need to look at yourself and how you post to me and others. Leave Ego out of this. This isnt about proving others wrong. Its about sharing our opinion or research. Cant we do that without telling others their beliefs are wrong????



Sincerly

B

[byond1]

Hi Brother Shadow,


I would agree that just because a "Male Played a Female Role" doesnt mean he isnt a man, or would have a softer WCK method, as a female might.
Many older methods of WCK do not preserve an overly soft WCK, in fact most dont. Look at Cheung Way Boe. His hands are not sloppy soft. or Noodle soft. This gives insight into older Cho Gar methodology.

Thats extremly interesting footage with the Fa Tan having short sleaves. Food for thought.

B

[Hendrik]

Hi Brothers,



"If you think I was wrong, then please discard all the information on your website and your book, which is based on me." HS


++Brother Hendrik, please dont let your bruised ego allow you to try and hurt me, by removing your info from the WCKpedia. The Pedia isnt about me or you. Its not about me making value judgments on the differing opinions. Its about everyones opinions being represented. It doesnt matter if i agree or not, as its not about me or my opinion. Its about putting your research, as well as contrary research, for everyone to have access to, so they can make up their own minds. Knowledge is empowerment.

When i asked you if i could put up your posts into the pedia, you told me They were posted, for the public, and you no longer owned them, and i could use them as i wished. I spent over 15 hours collecting information from you, to spread your opinions on ~Technical Matters~.

It wasnt until you started talking deragatory about me, when you branched off from Technical discussion and ventured into Ego stroking, that i was insulted. This has nothing to do with research though. You attack my credibility, so i deflected it back to you. Im sorry you didnt like it.

And to clairfiy for you, there is no information of ~yours~, that is in the AWCKRIs book. 18.5 years ago Sifu Grayson taught me about the Snake and the Crane. From that day i saw and felt the connections. Since than i have investigated the snake and crane connection. I have a diary of my research, and i made numerous connections between WCK and White crane prior to gleaning any wisdom from you. What you did was add to what i knew. You were the first to actually bring up the Wu Hsing Sau, as well as the Chao Yang Sau being connected to WCK.

Technicaly you know ALOT. Much more than i.
And i have learned alot in General from your postings. But when you make slanderous statments against me, when i didnt diserve it, i have the right to defend my reputation.




"and also, stop to use all the lead or person in contact which I have given you for your research to get you this far. "

Actually the truth is i started a friendship with a student of Lee Kangs 6 months ago, and i have the emails to prove it. I was also investigating Pan family system from before that time due to a post Martin made on KFO. Several months ago, i posted in a public forum, asking opinions on what White Crane is ~most~related to WCK, to help fine tune my focus. Robert Chu was the first to suggest looking at the Taiwan convention DVDs, as such he was a great help. Than You posted, that I should look into Lee Kang and Pan Family branchs. ~Confirming~ the direction, i was already going into.




"if you dont like mine or others' technical opinion/discussion on the WCK then just ignore them."" HS

Actually i love all the technical opinions and discussions. Thats why i post. But i wont be part of turning something, that is about Erics great work, into another WCK soap opera.
I have always respected you and stood up for you, and just because i have a differant opinion on "How internal" WCK was ancestraly, has nothing to do with my responce to you. It was you attacking and judging me. Im sorry you cant see that.




""That simple, Why so much complain and judgement?"" HS

You really need to look at yourself and how you post to me and others. Leave Ego out of this. This isnt about proving others wrong. Its about sharing our opinion or research. Cant we do that without telling others their beliefs are wrong????



Sincerly

B



Thanks for your sharing,

It is best to send you lot of love and approval.




Best Regards
Hendrik

[Hendrik]

There is a different between ego and confident come from experience.

There is also a right and wrong path. Right path, one will attain the kung fu, wrong path, It will mislead one. It is not simply sharing opinion, it is about responsibility. cooking sand could never become rice. collecting lots of opinions is not going to make the collection the truth.


there is also a different between the path which transmissed down from the ancestors, being truely experienced , and accord to the nature to the minute details,
vesus the speculating path which is looking good on paper and clever arguement.

Inequality is a part of realtiy. Knowing and speculating is not the same.


Until one take responsibility for oneself, rigtheous vengence and blaming such as Anti-Qing is a deadly poison and prison for oneself.



just some thoughts.

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Oookay hate to do this but the situation warrants it….

I do not know what are the issues within the Wing Chun family here but I think this is not the right place to air them.

Call me naïve or what but I think being in the same family, you folks should work hard to find ways to resolve whatever that is causing this trouble.

Or at the very least, not wash dirty linen in public forum; the real casualty is the good name of the kung fu and the Sifus you are aligned to.

I am all for sharing and learning from one another and it’s in this spirit that I spend time to post.

Take away that spirit, my work here is meaningless.

Now that I got that said, here is another view of Yong Chun White Crane.

Posting this for 2 reasons:-

• Brother Hendrik, I think this exercise shows joint power well. I think you Wing Chunner would find this “8 Hands” sequence interesting when you are co-relating White Crane & Wing Chun.

• This is, imho, another example of “8 linking steps” that my teachers often talked about. Here Master Su concentrates on the wrist but in many other Cranes, this concept is extended to using entire body movement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndYrO76EKlo

Again brothers, please try to work things out.

Unless, we really want to be nothing more than loose sand.

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[byond1]

Brother Eric

I will do my best, to let things go.

The clip you posted is wonderfull. Sui Sifu and his son. That particular sequence, i have been examining for several months, as being a strong link to WCK. If you have the Taiwan convention 2004, Sui Sifu, gives a lecture and shows the 8 hands with details, than has 2 senior students, show the 2 man drills derived from the Sequence. Great stuff.

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Now that there is less heat…back to business:-

Received a call from Sifu Jack Tan from Chin Woo Singapore yesterday.

Sifu Tan told me about a “Mizhong” or “Lost Track” teacher from Shanghai who is currently coaching in Singapore Chin Woo.

This “Mizhong” Sifu will be included in our line-up for this coming event.. This is good; I have never seen this style live…

Will be in Penang again on the 23rd of this month and then continuing to Singapore on the 27th until beginning of May.

So anybody wants to “touch beer mugs” – let me know…

Got a Pan Nam Siu Nim Tau clip here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nC1k6xqTyQ

Errrh, don’t have Brother Hendrik’s machine or any meditation experience but something tells me this performer is doing an “internal” form.

Warmest Regards.

Eric

ps Bro Brian, take it easy..... thanks.

[Eric Ling]

Sorry, above link not working.

Here's the new one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwaC7gJJLF4

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Just got this from Sifu Jack Tan, a youtube clip of the Mizhong Sifu coming in September http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZTh0RgVtzk

Expecting Sifu Tan to be sending more stuffs ..... I love my "job" ......

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Jim Roselando]

Hi Eric,


I trained Mi Zong (lost track) for a "short" period a while back. I had a bunch of info collected on it. Old articles etc.. I tossed them out not long ago or I would send them to you. In NY there are a few decent Mi Zong players. Its not like our beloved South Fist arts but still interesting.

Thanks for sharing.


Peace,

[Jim Roselando]

Brian wrote;


I would agree that just because a "Male Played a Female Role" doesnt mean he isnt a man, or would have a softer WCK method, as a female might.
Many older methods of WCK do not preserve an overly soft WCK, in fact most dont.

I assume :eek: people are asking this question because of the Woman's style article I wrote? Even if not, I hope its not taken out of context.

There are TWO core differences between the so-called Womans style and Mans style. One is the Jing Sun/San Chin facing theory and the other is the Pole. It does not matter if a man or man playing woman learned the art. The legend relates to a paradigm shift in Wing Chun and the idea that there was more than one approach. Since most orthodox Wing Chun stems in the world today from Wong Wah Bo (more likely source of paradigm shift) , we can understand why most are more similar than less similar. The reality is that today we have a lot of Wing Chun egg shell but very little Wing Chun yoke. Soft has nothing to do with being noodle or overly soft but rather the conditioning (wai/noi) and power generation dynamics.


Gotta run!

[wu-ji]

Hi everybody,


• This is, imho, another example of “8 linking steps” that my teachers often talked about. Here Master Su concentrates on the wrist but in many other Cranes, this concept is extended to using entire body movement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndYrO76EKlo


Eric

It is interesting that we also have that in our Ngo Cho, but executed in more rounded manner and with more body integration. Xiamen style does it with palms very identical to Bai He. Quanzhou style prefers to use closed fists in some applications. We have a saying that "要想鶴拳好" and we always believe that our hands are Crane. My late sukong practiced this religiously everyday.

I see that WC people like to do it in a sharper manner (straightline interception).

[byond1]

Hi Brother Jim


That had nothing to do with your article. I responded to you my thoughts on that sometime ago and will save bandwidth by not repeating it.

Just to clairify, we were responding to the idea of a Fa tan, using physical movements found in Fa Tan operatic style in their WCK expression. Such as "water Sleaves". As was shown by Brother Shadow, many Fa Tan styles didnt use, the longer sleave, reeling motions.
I agree completly with you that it wouldnt matter if it was a Man or a man playing woman, expressing the art. But as you know i dont agree with with 2 differant versions of WCK on the Red Boats, other than differant methods of organizing the same information. or perhaps more or less focus on snake or crane components.

Perhaps use of Sai Ping Dai Mah usage occured on a localized evolution level??

Sorry for any confusion. Hope you and your wife are well.

B

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Jim, first Brother Hendrik talked about losing his old books/mags (in another thread) and now you tossing out yours; what the matter with you Wing Chun peoples? Get a filing cabinet dude!:D

Got 2 clips here to share…..

Luca, this one is for you and your PH family. All these pics are taken out of the magazine that your Sibagong kindly gave me during my visit. I actually wanted to post more from his DVD but can’t seem to get the format right; all the clips come out looking flattened. Not doing justice to your beautiful art. Anyway, I will be meeting your PH family again soon and hopefully, you will be around…. Send my warmest regards to them before then. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tzh_t7UxmH8

Brother Hendrik, this second clip will show clearly the kind of “soft whipping” that we do in Whooping Crane. Shot some years ago, this video is part of my White Crane collection and I got tons of those from all the Cranes I found over the years…. I will be reviewing them and putting them on line and hopefully for all you Wing Chunners to use as “research” materials. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aksUvXn5USM

Skyped with GM Pan Cheng Miaow, Yong Chun White Crane, yesterday and the next thing you know, he told me that Martin Watts is there … in China.

Hahahaha, this is one Crane that’s really flying….

Warmest Regards.

Eric

Ps Luca, those pics of your late GM Leong Chee Yan were taken in the old PH school in Whampoa Estate Singapore (near Balestier Road). I used to walk by that school as a kid on the way to my school.

Yeah, I am that “young”……

[Gru Bianca]

Thanks Eric for the clip :)

I should be around by the time you come back, if you still have my number give me a call.

Regards,

Luca

[Hendrik]

[QUOTE=Eric Ling;755475]
Brother Hendrik, this second clip will show clearly the kind of “soft whipping” that we do in Whooping Crane. Shot some years ago, this video is part of my White Crane collection and I got tons of those from all the Cranes I found over the years…. I will be reviewing them and putting them on line and hopefully for all you Wing Chunners to use as “research” materials. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aksUvXn5USM

Skyped with GM Pan Cheng Miaow, Yong Chun White Crane, yesterday and the next thing you know, he told me that Martin Watts is there … in China.

Hahahaha, this is one Crane that’s really flying….

Warmest Regards.

Eric
[QUOTE]


Eric siheng,

Thank you for your excellent clips.

Clips are so good that is show lots of signatures...
They are certainly good research resource for WCK research. We need these authentic resource for tracing purpose that is very certain.


your last Clip on white crane remind me the Tenso Kata power generation. this above second clip is great it show the power dna clearly. ofcause SLT is based on these type of basic hand shape !




BTW, the Siu Lim tau set above, if there is a machine :D,

and, if the machine could speak in chinese, the machine will said the perfomancer's shen (spirit) is not Ning (settle) thus, the beathing is latched on chest, and the Qi will not accumulate. Then, it yield to forcing physical movement instead of using Yee to lead Qi and Qi transport the body.

I have just given Jim Big Hell :D two weeks ago because the way he open his eyes and defuse his shen. hahaha Jim could tell you my super ego picking at him. hahaha




different from the power generation of Whooping Crane in your clip, the Yik Kam lineage power generation is done differenty, since we are using the energize water sleeve power DNa. Thus, I have heard from my sifu, in its advance form, no storing phase is needed. it is perform with -- let go/drop and vibrate at any instant , as the WCK kuen kuit said, " comes recieve, goes.... let go and thrust forward." I have shared this with Jim and hope that he could do it. hahaha. I could take my retiring rest now.

Speaking about doing WCK research,
Certainly I am not the spokeman of Yik Kam or Cho Hong-Choy, however, as I have heard, it doesnt matter, if one is perpared by the sifu with the uniqueness core keys, and the uniqueness of the art or DNA is converge, then that is the representative of the lineage, because it is about art and not depend on title or position.

so, disregard of who do it, as soon as the uniqueness of the lineage surface, the art and comment will be having weight. but ofcorse the Kung fu and the depth of the power is different due to different people's cultivation.

as it is said in madarin, Yee Fa Poo Yee Ren, Follow the Dharma/method/process/technology instead of title and position.

So, this level of knowing and depth in details is needed to do research, otherwise, imho, it is just wishfull thinking and every opinion is as good as other opinion and carry no real weight.





Best Regards

Martin is a respectable crane devotee that is forsure!

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Wu_Ji, the same sequence is also done in GM Kan Teck Guan’s Ngo Chor; almost the same exact order.

You’ll also see them in the Tai Chor that I do and these carry on into some Karates.

I would say elemental techniques in many Southern Fukien styles.

“Holding an egg between elbow/body” is signature in these styles and I could say the same for Wing Chun and many Hakka styles.

Had a phone conversation with Sifu CHEONG CHENG LEONG, the co-author of “Secrets of Phoenix-Eye Boxing” and arranged to meet up in Penang.

So for those of you who have been asking about his style of Chu Gar, well I hope to get some answers for you.

He is on my invite list for the September event for sure!

Warmest Regards.

Eric

Ps. Brother Hendrik, you could tell all that by just looking at the SLT clip; I am very impressed. Maybe I just need you and not your machine…….:)

[Firehawk4]

Good to here that you are going to meet Cheong Cheng Leong of Chuka Shaolin . Maybe you could ask him something about the forms that are in his system ? And a little bit about there History ? And about some history about his teacher Lee Siong Pheow i am wondering where in Kwangtung Canton Province he came from and learned his art Chuka Shaolin ? Robert

[Eric Ling]

Good to here that you are going to meet Cheong Cheng Leong of Chuka Shaolin . Maybe you could ask him something about the forms that are in his system ? And a little bit about there History ? And about some history about his teacher Lee Siong Pheow i am wondering where in Kwangtung Canton Province he came from and learned his art Chuka Shaolin ? Robert

Robert,

Yup, I will be talking to Sifu Cheong regarding all that ….

Got another clip here using pics from Penang SaoLim’s 1975 anniversary magazine – courtesy of GM Dato P’ng Chye Khim.

Personally, I think it’s difficult to match SaoLim in terms of techniques variety and range.

Apart from the Lohans , 5 animals etc, SaoLim also teaches monkey, a full range of chin-na and kicks.

When I visited GM P’ng, he got one of his students to do a form called “Continuous Kicking Methods”.

This is one Southern form that consists of almost entirely all kicks ….

So maybe that old saying of “10,000 cherries blossom on 1 tree and 10,000 methods originated in Shaolin” is not that far-fetched afterall…..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGnLF-G2b1c

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Shadow_warrior8]

Hi Eric, just spotted your site for martial arts gathering 2007. Looks great.
How do I book tickets? I better start saving up and blocking my calender.
Btw, can I ask a sneak question? Which style of wingchun will be there? Chuka shaolin too? Have his books. Awesome....

[Eric Ling]

Hi Eric, just spotted your site for martial arts gathering 2007. Looks great.
How do I book tickets? I better start saving up and blocking my calender.
Btw, can I ask a sneak question? Which style of wingchun will be there? Chuka shaolin too? Have his books. Awesome....


Bro,

The site is undergoing some final touch-ups and we are still inserting more content before we announce it everywhere …..

At this time, I’ve got YM’s Wing Chun.

Will be traveling to Penang and Singapore again from the 23th to confirm Sifu Cheong and meet up with Master Ku to talk about appearance.

I just managed to talk to Shaolin Chuka Sifu Cheong and I will be meeting him in Penang.

Frankly, this gathering is turning out to much much more than I first envisaged.

Bro, you won't believe the number of styles I’ve got.

Maybe this will give you an idea; initially we were planning for 50 Masters/Sifus and Seniors to come share their skills.

Now we are the 70 mark and still counting ….

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Shadow_warrior8]

Eric,
Drool......Bro you really deliver.
Okay, once everything is rolling, I will send out the word to the guys I know.
Want to see more of white crane and the less known arts in malaysia and the world.
Great stuff. We want in!!!!

[Eric Ling]

Eric,
Drool......Bro you really deliver.
Okay, once everything is rolling, I will send out the word to the guys I know.
Want to see more of white crane and the less known arts in malaysia and the world.
Great stuff. We want in!!!!

Bro, got your PM - don't worry. I know what's going on ... errhh I'm not as dumb as I look :cool:

Are you still in Sing ?

I will be there this 27th - meet up for some "talk c@ck" ?
Reelax bro ....

[Hendrik]

Hendrik thanks for sharing more knowledge.

I would like to know in this clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQ46TnwTAxQ by Sifu Cheong Way Bo(thanks Eric) 0.15 -0.20 secs we see the bil hand going side to side.

Now is this also a signature? I notice in some Ban Chung masters and also Sifu Cheong that the thumb is extended diagonally, the Hu Kou is rounded, Palms Hollow and Contained(not flat like some wingchun styles), finger tips are bent slightly, Bases of the Fingers Caved In

Although I am quoting from this mainly, its something I have noticed for some years now.
http://qi-journal.com/Qigong.asp?-Token.FindPage=3&-Token.SearchID=Body%20Posture%20for%20Qigong

The Hsing I learnt also has the same "guidelines" for the santi, hand posture. It generates power in the hands.




Shadow,


Ok, let me answer you once and for all with what I know.


1, you seem like to go deeper with the uniqueness.
To be real honest, dont missed the moon and chasing at finger and fingers.....

It is a fact that one needs to attain certain level in training to "know" certain uniqueness. So, it is no good for speculating. Thus, it is the experience realm instead of thinking realm stuffs when go deeper. IMHO.


2, these signature stuffs are a life long journey.

decades ago when my Sifu Late GM Cho Hong-Choy was in his fifties, one day when he told me about GM Cho Chuen his teacher and his siheng-dai in China.

I asked him, thier kung fu level, and my sifu told me. a, his siheng -dais had very fast hands, b, as for GM Cho Chuen is no good to speculate because that is beyond my thinking.
So, I ask him, how are you compare with him. After a minute or so of silence, sifu told me " now I could play with him but not before".

Since it has to take GM Cho Hong-Choy who is very sharp and deligent in Kung fu training until his 50's to get that far. Then, I ask no more.

My bottom line is simple when I am 50's if I could know 70% of what my sifu is talking about, I consider myself lucky. It is absolutely not about book reading or thinking and who is succesor which could be given if someone is favorite.

It is a life long journey and hope that one could have a glimpse of the technology. and just a glimpse is good enough for me. The rest doesnt matter. IMHO

IMHO, we these days speak about successor, spoke person....and trying to verify Yik Kam kuen kuit with MINE translation.. MINE approval or those games etc. to be real honest, IMHO, if we go that way , we are dreaming and dont know what we are dealing with. in Chinese there is a term called Yeh Lang Tze Da or the man from Yeh Country amplified himself to be soo large, that we need to avoid.



3, as for your qouting...etc.

Lets make an analogy, if one is watching movie and see the night sky with stars on the 2D screen,

but

have never go to the peak of a mountain where no city light could be seen and watch/feel/sense/experience the night sky and stars from there.

Then, one dont know the real starry starry night sky.



Eventhought one could think "oh, night sky with stars is similar to the one what I saw in the movie."

Nope, the vast, the silence, the depth..... the fusion of one into the night sky.... those multiple dimentional experience one will never know until one is there.

That is the level I refer to about KNOW, at that level, one just know.



So, work in one's kung fu until one similar to one is watching the starry starry night on the peak of the mountian, then one will know.

and what one describe will be the truth even if it is a limited truth because one's kung fu is still not deep. However, because one has been there. one will describe what is it , even with the limited resources or limited describtion, but one is not INTEPRERATE. One is DESCRIBE what is it.

It is about KNOW and not "Think I KNow". it is about DESCRIBE and not about INTEPRERATE. Thus, the night sky doenst needs a spoke person, whoever has experienced it will be able to Describe the Truth to a certain degree.

Other stuffs about he says she says and theories, doesnt matter, IMHO

What good is it to immitate the posture if one's 8 special medirians never being activate and have no chance to being activate when it comes to Yik Kam's SLT ?




Best Regards
Hendrik

[Shadow_warrior8]

Thank you Hendrik. :)
It is helpful.

[Hendrik]

Thank you Hendrik. :)
It is helpful.


You are welcome.
I bubbling alots hahahaha. and dont know if what I bubbling is usedfull at all.

Best Regards
Hendrik

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Posting this message from gorgeous, sunny & beautiful island of Penang.

Had lunch with like, wow, 15 Masters from various styles including Por Sok and GM Cheong Chen Leong of Chu-Ka Kung Fu.

I tell you, at the lunch table, I felt like a GREENHORN, sponging up everything that was discussed.

Hahahaha, what do you expect from a bunch of Kung Fu Masters with few hundred years of collective CKF experiences.

We were ignoring the sumptuous lunch being served hahahahaha.

Last evening I visited GM Cheong in his hillside Chu-Ka kung fu school.

You know I have always expected GM Cheong to be a strict, serious and stern kind of Sifu; probably developed that impression from his 2 books.

Instead, I found him to be good-humored, sociable and most importantly, modest.

This is one superb (watch the clip) CKF Master and he was so friendly and generous with his sharing – another lesson for me!

In his Kung Fu, he is fast, powerful and he is 66!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_bfQr_wn0E

Looking exactly like in his book except with some graying hair and a few more lines on his face….

He did the form from his book, “Kai San” or “Opening Mountain” and went on to do another advance form, “10 Animals”.

Love his “10 Animals” – a Hakka version of this famous Southern KF form.

One of his students did “Tiger” and later GM Cheong showed me some of his fighting concepts and jing play.

GM Cheong, I salute you and this September, in Kuching, I hope to “steal” some of your Kung Fu.

Warmest Regards.

Eric

Ps Bros, you guys are too serious … lighten up … Kung Fu should be fun!! Otherwise, I am quiting!:cool: :cool: :cool:

[Shadow_warrior8]

Wow, bro this Chu Ka clip is so good. It rocks.
Can hear the power of his jin.
I love your job. Any vacancies??? Hahahahahha.....
Looking forward to the meeting at kuching.

[Firehawk4]

For Showing the Chuka Shaolin . Was the Tiger form Hu Chao Chien (Tiger Claw Ascending Tiger) or Hu Chao Chien (Tiger Claw Descending Tiger ) wich form was in the clip ? Did he say anything about the history of Chuka Shaolin and what where some of the concepts he told you , Do they have gengs like Swallow spit sink i was told by one of his students that they have different kinds of gengs in there more advanced forms that are internal ? I do have a short clip of Sifu Cheong doing the Kai San form that i got from a student of his but i never put it on the internet but i was told that Sifu Cheong did not like to be on videotape but i guess that is not true . The Ten animals form is it a combonation of different animals techniques ? Robert

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Robert, you know what, I did not really delve into the deeper stuff with GM Cheong because it was getting real late when I visited him.

So I really just skimmed through some basic concepts with him.

Chu-gar, according to GM Cheong, is about deflecting and counterattacking simultaneously with little fancy movements in the process.

I will be including more Chu-ga details in my website sometimes next week when I’m back in Kuching. Having lunch with GM Cheong today for another session.

Will keep everybody posted about the website here.

Well, spent the good part of yesterday afternoon with “Hay Pun Wing Chun” GM Cheong Wai Por or Por Sok (Uncle Por)

And we shot more than 1 hour footages of him explaining and demonstrating his Wing Chun.

Briefly this is what was told to me:-

• “Hay Pun” or “Opera” Wing Chun was created by Southern Shoalin’s Jhee Sin, a peer of Ng Mui. This Wing Chun was taught in Shaolin until the burning down of the temple. Ng Mui fled to Canton and started the Wing Chun line from that province. Jhee Sin took refuge with opera troops who were living and traveling in boats from place to place to perform. Ng Mui’s lineage is also known as “land’s Wing Chun” and Jhee Sin followers call their’s “Water or River’s Wing Chun”.

• Wing Chun is made up of “Crane” and “Snake”” forms of fighting concepts and these are manifested in the techniques. Por Sok did a small portion of his form that displayed, very unmistakably, the “snake” element of his Wing Chun.

• His pole form is named “6 ½ pole 13 spear” and this is one continuous form. The last time I visited him, I got it wrong and thought that there were 2 separate forms. Por Sok recited the entire kuit of this form for the camera.

Like I said, I got over an hour of action and explanation and I will post them in parts.

Starting with this one :- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLCTuRE4zC0

The 1st section of his “Siu Nim Tau” again but this time under better light conditions.

Before I left, I was given an old photo album with 100 over pics of Por Sok and his late teacher. (lalalalala)……

These I got to quickly find a scanner and make copies ….arrgggh should have carried a portable scanner with me (if they got anything like that available).

Warmest Regards.

Eric

Bertrand Bro …. Will be in Sing from 27th onwards. Will contact u 4 face2face. We might just need a co-coordinator in Sing for all the projects that we are launching.

Take care bro …..

[Shadow_warrior8]

Looking forward to rendering any assistance I can, bro.
Sifu Cheong, fantastic clip. Thanks.

[Jim Roselando]

Hey Eric,


Its nice to see Uncle Por Sok showing his Wing Chun. The more the old timeres come out the better it is for the wing chun community.

A student of the Chuka Foo Ngon system came to the US and trained with my South Mantis school for a few weeks a number of years back. Its interesting to note that a famous Southern Mantis master was rumored to have travelled throughout SEA sharing some of his Kung Fu. I believe there was some effect from his time in SEA on some arts.

Not that this is from Chuka but I thought everyone might find this Chow Gar South Mantis footage to be real interesting. Its Yip Chee Kung and his dad, GM Yip Sui. Footage taken in Hong Kong and gives some details on their training, conditioning, fighting ideas of force vectors and the ever mysterious Chi Kung & so-called Wah Fu practice. Hard Gong but well rounded training.

N-Joy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k5e6kQtF6A

Thanks for sharing Eric!


Peace,

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Sorry for the lapse in posting – overdosed with session after session of kung fu with various Masters…

Waiting for me to edit and post:-

1. Master Cheong Wai Por doing 6 and a half pole 13 Spears. Por Sok did the form and reciting the entire kuit at the same time. He also did Mok Gar, Chan Gar Kwon (Chan family Pole) and a bunch of Hay Pun Wing Chun San Shou.

2. My Penang Chow Gar family doing Hok Quen or Crane fist, Sup Jee Kuen etc..

3. Penang’s Master Ong Choon Sheng and his Tai Chor’s San Chiem.

In Singapore, I’ve got so far:

1. Kong Chow Hui Koon Hung Gar that includes Hung Gar Sup Jee Kuen, 5 Animal form, Kung Jee Fuk Fu Quen and various weapon sets.

2. Master Ku Chai Wah doing Bun Chung Wing Chun’s Fa Kuen, Siu Nim Tau, Yan Jee Doe, Mok Chung and Chi Sau.

3. GM Teo Choon Teck doing Tai Chor Sam Chiem, Lohan and others.

4. GM Samy and his Silambum.


So x’cuse me while I kiss the sky (just kidding) …. Still busy meeting Masters for interviews and shooting.:D

Next up, I will be shooting some Hong Sheng Khoon Choy Li Fut and Singapore Chow Gar……

After this trip, all my materials should be ready and you folks can check out our website for full details regarding the September’s gathering in Kuching.

This is going to be one heck of a MA gathering …..

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Hendrik]

Hi everybody,

Sorry for the lapse in posting – overdosed with session after session of kung fu with various Masters…

Waiting for me to edit and post:-

1. Master Cheong Wai Por doing 6 and a half pole 13 Spears. Por Sok did the form and reciting the entire kuit at the same time. He also did Mok Gar, Chan Gar Kwon (Chan family Pole) and a bunch of Hay Pun Wing Chun San Shou.

2. My Penang Chow Gar family doing Hok Quen or Crane fist, Sup Jee Kuen etc..

3. Penang’s Master Ong Choon Sheng and his Tai Chor’s San Chiem.

In Singapore, I’ve got so far:

1. Kong Chow Hui Koon Hung Gar that includes Hung Gar Sup Jee Kuen, 5 Animal form, Kung Jee Fuk Fu Quen and various weapon sets.

2. Master Ku Chai Wah doing Bun Chung Wing Chun’s Fa Kuen, Siu Nim Tau, Yan Jee Doe, Mok Chung and Chi Sau.

3. GM Teo Choon Teck doing Tai Chor Sam Chiem, Lohan and others.

4. GM Samy and his Silambum.


So x’cuse me while I kiss the sky (just kidding) …. Still busy meeting Masters for meeting and shooting.:D

Next up, I will be shooting some Hong Sheng Khoon Choy Li Fut and Singapore Chow Gar……

After this trip, all my materials should be ready and you folks can check out our website for full details regarding the September’s gathering in Kuching.

This is going to be one heck of a MA gathering …..

Warmest Regards.

Eric


Eric siheng,

Thank you for introduce Yik Kam/ Cho family art to the world via Por Suk and Brother Ku.

Cant wait for thier clip to be post!

Best Regards
Hendrik

[Shadow_warrior8]

Hi everybody,

Sorry for the lapse in posting – overdosed with session after session of kung fu with various Masters…

Waiting for me to edit and post:-

1. Master Cheong Wai Por doing 6 and a half pole 13 Spears. Por Sok did the form and reciting the entire kuit at the same time. He also did Mok Gar, Chan Gar Kwon (Chan family Pole) and a bunch of Hay Pun Wing Chun San Shou.

2. My Penang Chow Gar family doing Hok Quen or Crane fist, Sup Jee Kuen etc..

3. Penang’s Master Ong Choon Sheng and his Tai Chor’s San Chiem.

In Singapore, I’ve got so far:

1. Kong Chow Hui Koon Hung Gar that includes Hung Gar Sup Jee Kuen, 5 Animal form, Kung Jee Fuk Fu Quen and various weapon sets.

2. Master Ku Chai Wah doing Bun Chung Wing Chun’s Fa Kuen, Siu Nim Tau, Yan Jee Doe, Mok Chung and Chi Sau.

3. GM Teo Choon Teck doing Tai Chor Sam Chiem, Lohan and others.

4. GM Samy and his Silambum.


So x’cuse me while I kiss the sky (just kidding) …. Still busy meeting Masters for interviews and shooting.:D

Next up, I will be shooting some Hong Sheng Khoon Choy Li Fut and Singapore Chow Gar……

After this trip, all my materials should be ready and you folks can check out our website for full details regarding the September’s gathering in Kuching.

This is going to be one heck of a MA gathering …..

Warmest Regards.

Eric


Wow....cant wait!!!! Saliva drooling already. :) Thanks Eric Bro. You have done great things for the MA community

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Got a bit of meantime between shooting sessions and I thought I quickly do up one clip for posting..

Master Ku Choy Wah and his demonstration of Ban Chung Wing Chun. This was shot the same evening that I did Kong Chow Hui Koon’s Hungga. Master Ku runs a Wing Chun class there. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbEhtRGHf3U

I also spent plenty of quality time, the day after, with this Master and he walked me through the history of Cho Gar Wing Chun in Penang.

Master Ku who visited Cho Gar village some time back , caught a wide range of their kung fu on video, and these he graciously shared with me; the Cho Gar’s kung fu repertoire is simply astounding…..

Besides Cho Gar Wing Chun, I also saw Cho Gar CLF, Hung Kuen etc etc…all done with that special Cho Gar’s flavor, if I may.

Master Ku was even generous enough to give me a copy of this video.

Well, this September in Kuching, will be a good time to meet Master Ku and get a taste of his Ban Chung Wing Chun.

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Hendrik]

Eric siheng,

Excellent job done and thanks! that you introduce and help to preserve the Cho family and Yik Kam's art!

I saw some Sui Da section and some woodern dummy section of Yik Kam!

Great that sifu Ku is preserving the art of Cho family full heartedly.




Now I could go full force to dream my Yik Kam dream : fajing, sticking close body snake recoil reel, sickle cut, boomerang with elegantly.... hehehehe. Click on dance in the following site. and that is what my dream looks like. hahahahaha :D Too bad she is very expensive to be a model for Yik Kam SLT.

http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1808590078/trailer


I love to day dream. :D




Best Regards
Hendrik

[Shadow_warrior8]

Hi all:

Just thought I would offer a word of encouragement to all who are considering going to the MAG event. Should you go? YES!

What Eric is doing with the MAG for the martial arts community is priceless and many of the guys he is gathering will not be around forever. This is something you should not miss.

I plan on being there!

cheers

Chas Fisher
Seattle WA

Second that. As soon as the details are up, I am booking my tickets to the event. Plane ticket too....... :) Eric you're the Man!!!
BTW did you know you were on the news???? Heh heh
http://www.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2007/3/21/nation/17201893&sec=nation

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Just got back into Kuching today … what a hectic trip this has been but looking at the “fruits”; worth every bit of effort!

Bertrand, nice talking to you. Like I said will be back in Sing after I compiled everything and upload to our website; will take another couple of days max….

Spiltastone, got your pm. My partner is out-station too and is expected to be back this weekend. Your proposition will be an item in our meeting agenda. Will come back to you on decision. Thanks.

Well folks, got a whole bunch of clips to review and edit before posting but here’s a short one for you first.

GM Cheong Wai Por sharing his “Hay Pun” Wing Chun 6 ½ pole 13 Spears.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKeQwZEVnJs

Just in case anyone is wondering; both “Hay Pun” and “Bun Chung” refers to “Opera” or more specifically “Cho Gar” Wing Chun.

And I just like to add this, throughout my entire journey these last couple of years meeting Masters, first impression is NEVER accurate!

You meet a Master and very often you’ll hear remarks like “I don’t do Kung Fu anymore” or “You got the wrong person”…

After some warming up; usually my determined probing and showing some of my low grade White Crane, you see these “laid back” Masters start kicking ass…

GM Cheong is one fine example of this; spent couple of days with him and got little out of him initially.

During my last call, together with 2 of my Chow Gar seniors, GM Cheong came alive with his Wing Chun and in particular, his 6 ½ pole 13 Spears.

With a solid stick, GM did the form and reciting the “kuit” all the way…… exactly the way some of my Masters did their Kung Fu.

Ahh … the good old days …..

Warmest Regards.

Eric

Ps Bro Hendrik, sometimes when you are in “Zhiang Hu” you don’t get to choose …. Hey nobody forced you to do Kung Fu … there are other activities that you could have picked; stamps collecting, bonsai, restoring old cars …… just kidding bro … you got “called” so keep the journey….:D

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Oookay, here’s one Master who can’t get away with “I don’t do kung fu anymore” line; my Tai Chor teacher Teo Choon Teck.

GM Teo is the current leader of his line of Fukien Grand Ancestor Boxing having inherited the style from the late Quek Yong Hor.

Tai Chor is another system that centers around Sanchin training and in many aspects, comparable to White Crane.

Except that the Lohan and even tiger elements are much more well-defined in Tai Chor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQhjmUMCwHU

The Sanchin, besides TTFC, also integrates “iron shirt” training even at entry level.

GM Teo or Ah Teck, is a very strict down-to-earth teacher who is very demanding when it comes to training.

Never the flamboyant type, he is all “fight” as proven by the number of “lei-tai” champions he brought up over the years.

Even now in his mid-60s, he is still the same Ah Teck I first met all those years ago.. hard- hitting plain-talking and vigorous….when Ah Teck hits it hurts ….:eek:

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Hendrik]

Ps Bro Hendrik, sometimes when you are in “Zhiang Hu” you don’t get to choose …. Hey nobody forced you to do Kung Fu … there are other activities that you could have picked; stamps collecting, bonsai, restoring old cars …… just kidding bro … you got “called” so keep the journey….:D



Eric Siheng,

hahaha, Thats why I am

http://www.lannyland.com/wanderer/music/xiaoao.htm

So, I am no longer in Zhiang Hu.

My new hobby is day dreaming. hahaha.



You did an Excellent job on introduce both Ku Sifu and Por Suk. Excellent to have this preserve.



For those who are not familia with Yik Kam lineage, or Cho Family art.

IMHO,

Ku sifu's chi sau clip is showing the general DNA of the 3rd section of SLT, While Por Suk's playing with Eric clip is showing the general DNA of the 2nd section.

As for the 6.5 pole 13 spear, if we go by book or according to Kuen kuit, Yes, Por Suk's clip show the hidden 6 point on his set, but not the last 0.5 points. If I am not mistaken the last Kuit is not heard in the clip so does the last 0.5 points. Perhaps, you have edit it out. and also, IMHO, if my memory serve, this set doesnt look like the old Fan Gate 6.5 pole 13 Spear set. In additional, the way how my late sifu GM Cho Hong-Choy doesnt do pole with front hand movements as Por Suk...


With Por Suk and Sifu Ku's sharing and your excellent contribution.
Yes, This is an Excellent JOB done ! eventhough I see Localized Evolution exist since we all will present the art in our own way, but the mother shape still there...


Thank you Thank you and appreciate!




The following is the story about my sijo, Cho Dak-Sheng, or Por Suk's Si Pak.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

問過老豆...原來真係我果附近既小念頭
我鄉下果附近都係叫(曹館)
仲有果附近既虎crane雙形係陳斗3奶教既!
聽佢地話..陳斗當時上去果附近試野..
話邊個(書)佐就拜佢為師...
當時陳斗既腳好勁..踢中一野就好傷(一腳打到果d壓花生油既大樹頭姆仗遠)
而我果機同陳斗比試既叫曹德聖(落地千斤)..佢鳳眼拳又係好掂一下可以打粹一只象牙麻雀(佢4代都係果附 近教人功夫..而家都仲係(子孫教))
比試開始時陳斗一野踢過去..比德聖避開佐..之後陳豆再次出腳就比曹德聖一下鳳眼拳打落陳斗腳面(兩力相 交)..陳斗只腳即腫..要剪開對鞋..
之後要跪但拜師..仲互相交換功夫!!
以上只係聽老一代講..真假就唔知..


----------------


Best Regards
Hendrik



PS: hehehe you dont want me in Zhiang Hu. better keep me day dreaming. Since Cho family know is known. my messenger mission complete! hehehe,

[Eric Ling]

Hi Dr. (MD) Hendrik,

Continuing our topic of DNAs, I think this next clip should be of interest to you.

Por Suk talking about some building blocks of Cho Gar WC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxQz4rJqpvg

Sorry, conversation is part Mandarin/part Cantonese….

And Dr. Hendrik, you cannot get out of Zhiang Hu…...last I check it’s a little like Hotel California.

You can check out anytime you like but you can’t never leave ….. now where is my Strato …..

Warmest Regards.

Eric (slow hands) Ling …. Hehehehe….:cool: :cool: :cool:

And Bro, you’re spot on right… missing 0.5 point… high hand indeed …..:)

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Now for something entirely “different”; Indian Fighting Art “Silambatam” currently headed by MahaGuru T. Narayanasamy, a long time friend of GM Teo Choon Teck.

In order to provide a widespread showcase of Asian Fighting Arts, we have invited MahaGuru Samy to join us this September and I met up with him to discuss this and experience a little of his weapons systems.

Something fresh for me especially his double baton trapping when I attack with a staff.

I visited Mahaguru Samy in his home later that evening and got details about this Indian fighting system including archived pictures from his personal collection.

I included some of these in the clip…http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLZ0GVn1C6U

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Hendrik]

Eric Siheng,

Hahahaha.

Great Clips.
The mother DNA is still there with all these Elderly.






Continuing our topic of DNAs, I think this next clip should be of interest to you.

Por Suk talking about some building blocks of Cho Gar WC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxQz4rJqpvg

Sorry, conversation is part Mandarin/part Cantonese….----------


1,

Kuit Said,

揎蓋挑疊常要用


Hahaha, I have been waiting for SEA to do this for years.
I was disappointed that the Chapter of the book Complete WC doesnt show it and doesnt have it.



2,

The palm and finger spear is still hard and close to

.永春白鶴拳以 " 寸勁節力 " 見稱，能集中全身之力，於一剎那間發出，達到最好的持擊效果。要求力從胸起如雷從地發，蓄於身腰，發於臂手 。........


I am also waiting for

吞吐浮沉...揎蓋挑疊...升降開合..... 形,勢,气脉...
and 峨嵋十二庄's Snake slide Worm moves.. to come out.


otherwise, we lost Yik Kam's dance path. hahahaha.

my Yik Kam dream : fajing, sticking close body snake recoil reel, sickle cut, boomerang with elegantly.... hehehehe. Click on dance in the following site. and that is what my dream looks like. hahahahaha
http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1808590078/trailer







And Dr. Hendrik, you cannot get out of Zhiang Hu…...last I check it’s a little like Hotel California.
You can check out anytime you like but you can’t never leave ….. now where is my Strato …..--------


As a librarian,

I read about
http://www.lannyland.com/wanderer/music/xiaoao.htm


My favorite is Dong Fang Bu Bai with his needle as weapon, that is Yik Kam' dance. hahaha


So, there is no Zhiang Hu for me but I day dream alots. :D:D:D
Hope that I dont turn into Dong Fang Bu Bai.





Warmest Regards.

Eric (slow hands) Ling …. Hehehehe….:cool: :cool: :cool:

And Bro, you’re spot on right… missing 0.5 point… high hand indeed …..:) --------




I am just a librarian, not high and you are my siheng not slow. :D


Your half point.
半点子午定太平



To those who always question about who is and who is not a spokeman....etc. well, IMHO. it has nothing to do with the title or position. it is about Do one know what one is talking about and can one do it? the rest doesnt matter.

As a librarian, I have seen what I see. so, I know. So I could speak as a librarian. and hope that all the Cho family decendent know the Story to aids thier training directions. hahahaha.



My next quest is to see how Dong Fang Bu Bai's art work.




Best Regards
Hendrik

[Vajramusti]

What a delightful surprise seeing a clip of Guru Narayanswamy's silambatan.
You are doing an unselfish and a great job.
There have been different waves of Indian influences including martial arts in various parts of South east asia.
From his name the guru sounds Tamil and is doing a south Indian art.
How I wish I could be at your September gathering. Unfortunately- doesnt look like I can.

joy chaudhuri

[Shadow_warrior8]

Its all good.
I wanna be like what is said, I am in the world, but not of the world.
Lots of positive energy to everyone :)