internal fighting - does it change with age?

[Kaitain(UK)]

Before I start, let me make it clear that I don't have an opinion on this - I woke up in the middle of the night with this question in my head and wanted to share it with you.

We are constantly taught that to fight internally you must utilise your tendon strength and minimise the useage of your muscles. We are then taught that this attainment takes many years to reach, but when we get there it is unbeatable - the classics say "how else caan an old man defend himself against a gang of youths?".

What woke me up was this - could it be argued that the path of the internal arts requires external emphasis initially - understand the shape and movement. Then with time you train the internal knowledge and skill - understand the energy and intention. Does working with one necessarily preclude the other?

Is the fighting system ineffective until you are an old man and don't have muscles anymore? Is it at all feasible that the system is designed to have a progression that requires external useage and understanding? Are we rushing from A to C and ignoring B?

I'd appreciate your thoughts on this - as I said I don't have an opinion at the moment

"If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy?"

[Sam Wiley]

Yes, the internal arts do initially require some emphasis on the external. Some people say that external goes from physical to internal, and internal goes from internal to physical (like acids or bases being neutralized to 7.0 on the pH scale, I suppose). But I have not really seen that. I have simply seen a more complete view of things and a more complete way of doing things in the internal. I think this is because of lost information in many of the external arts, though, and not totally because of inherent nature.

In fighting, there is always some strength required. For instance, if your muscles simply can't hold you up, how can you fight? But the system will be effective your whole life. Some say that the external arts as they are taught now rely too much on pure physical strength and will become ineffective later in life because much strength fades with age. And there have been many cases where external artists decide they want something they will be able to use in old age and move on to the internal arts. On the other hand, with a system that doesn't rely solely on strength, the techniques will be effective for much longer.

And I sincerely hope that 50 years from now I am still able to scrap with the toughest young bucks out there and at least hold my own.

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[hasayfu]

Hi Kaitain,

The answer is YOUR fighting should change as you improve, not with age.

Lot's of people say what Sam said about soft to hard vs. hard to soft or as I have heard it, two paths up the same mountain. Like Sam, I've discovered this is a bad analogy.

I've changed it to same mountain but different starting points. See my old posts for more on that.

To your question, look at the real fighters of internal arts. They throw down. They don't look very "internal" in the beginning. As they progress, they learn to econmize their movements and use "4oz to move 1000lbs". I argue that in a real confrontation, they are not 100% internal. Just more internal then not.

On the otherhand, those who only focus on the internal aspects from day one tend to never really get it.