What is the most basic broadsword form?

[Oso]

just that question.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Long, hard, and sharp. Usually with a curve in the blade.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Some people put flags on 'em so they look pretty when they're twirled.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Personally, I like 'em Conan-style. "Conan the Barbarian...." not "Conan the Destroyer".....**** that second movie sucked.

[Oso]

next.........

[Royal Dragon]

Probably that one where all the most basic movements are covered. I am sure you have seen it, it starts with "Entwine the head", slash, slash, bind the head, thrust etc...

[Oso]

well, i have one from Kash. the one with all the 'flowers'. is that the one you are talking about?

[NJM]

I have one from Wing Lam, that's pretty basic. But I use a Da Dao to practice it now, my Broadsword isn't heavy enough.

[Jingwu Man]

In my school we teach Yilu dandao, and it is rediculously simple, but an excellent introduction to broadsword techniques. I've seen several versions of this form, and all are much harder, but my sigong got this form from shaolin temple, so i'm standing by it.

[Oso]

NJM: i have one of the 'combat steel' dao's from here...it's plenty heavy...about 3 times as heavy as one of the wushu blades.


Jingwu Man: thanks. I'll do a search for that and see what I find. I have two broadsword sets neither of them very simple and I want a 'ridiculously simple' set to feed the beginner's with.

[Royal Dragon]

well, i have one from Kash. the one with all the 'flowers'. is that the one you are talking about?

Reply]
No, this is one something I picked up locally. It's like all the most basic drills done in a form.

[David Jamieson]

just that question.

chop/parry/wrap/parry/draw/draw/thrust

pretty basic. :p

[Jingwu Man]

If you can find a copy of Shideqian's shaolin encyclopedia, my school's yilu dandao is almost the same form as the one in there except for the ending. Short and sweet.

[Oso]

David, yea, I know. I've been thinking about just ripping the two I have apart and making one but would rather find one that has a little history to it.

Jingwu Man: thanks, that gives me a place to start.

[ngokfei]

I'd recommend the Contemporary 18 movment Saber from the Chang Quan Duan System.

This set contains the primary movements of the weapon

This link offers a vcd for only $5.50 but it is in CHINESE

http://www.wushumedia.com/product.asp?action=vcd&code=2&ID=CHI11

This link offers a DVD in English but for around $15.00
http://www.cmaod.com/WushuYouthDVD.html

[Oso]

sweet, thanks.

[NJM]

NJM: i have one of the 'combat steel' dao's from here...it's plenty heavy...about 3 times as heavy as one of the wushu blades.


I've seen those blades, but my DaDao is combat steel and my Broadsword is just thin carbon steel, so it's not practical and not heavy. I know for a fact that there are great Combat Steel broadswords avaliable.

For clarafication purposes, here's a bit on combat steel from WLE forums:



As a side note, the term "combat steel" is a term used mostly for advertising. I usually take it to mean non-flexible when someone calls something "combat steel."

[Ravenshaw]

I think that's the first time I've been posted across forums. :p

Anyway, to expand on that, most people say combat steel when they mean heavy. Truth is, heavy isn't always good.

[Ben Gash]

Indeed, I've got a "combat steel" Dao and it's great for training but it's way too heavy for fighting, and compared to antique weapons I've handled it's monstrous.
These VCDs are in Chinese and spoken English http://www.cmaod.com/WushuStandard.html

[David Jamieson]

I think that's the first time I've been posted across forums. :p

Anyway, to expand on that, most people say combat steel when they mean heavy. Truth is, heavy isn't always good.


it's true. heavy = bad when it comes to weapons because it takes too much energy to make the hits count and by the time yourcut gets to where you want it to be, the target has moved or has cut you.

too light is also undesirable. Unless structure is amazing, like titanium bike frame idea. must be high quality, not brittle and not flimsy.

heavy is great for training though.

[mickey]

Oso,

Have courage, man.

Create a basic form yourself. Since you are the one teaching, no one knows better than you what your students need at this moment. Create the form to meet that need. There is nothing wrong with that as long as you are up front in telling them that you created it for them to facillitate their progress. It helps develop a healthy bond between your students and you; for, in creating the form, you are taking an active and a very decisive role in their development. That really should impress them.

mickey

[Oso]

mickey, pretty much decided that in a way. I'm just going to make line drills of the basic moves and also create two person versions of them. I've a couple of homemade aluminum blades a friend of mine cut from some 1/4" stuff...they are dull and tough and heavy enough to not break in the practice...of course, 3' long sticks will work for that as well but not be as flashy looking.

[zhangxihuan]

depends on your school... my first school had a really long arduous form that was taught to us (at the expense of quality movements), my 2nd school has people doing stationary movements CORRECTLY (such as inside and outside flowers, along with thrusts, kou you cuts (that thing that goes around your head) etc, before we begin moving at all. It just depends on the place, and who your instructor is. Personally I think good instructors teach you to move your feet and body CORRECTLY before you have a sword... they also take the sword slowly...
lets just say i had some bad previous experiences.....uh..g... but yeah.. flowers are common in all sword forms, as are "cat" or "empty" stances along with thrusting, drop stances, being up on one foot, kicking, etc....

[ngokfei]

Basics Techniques done in a drill format is the way to go. Most schools teach a couple of common techniques: ie: Chop, Stab, Waist Cut and the Flower which are common to most sets.

A short form is not always easier, depends on the material in the form. Alot of forms are put together to drill certain techniques so they are repeated numerous times.

A line drill method like one sees in sets like Tan Tui and xing YI is very useful.

Expecting any real application instruction depends on the nature of the teacher. Some feel application alongside technique is more important to the overall flow of a form. I tend to agree. Many of my instructors believed that a student through disciplined practice will explore their form and strengthen their weaknesses themselves through diligence/practice.
Separates the "give me" student from the "help me" student.

[Li Ma-Keh]

The most 'common' basic broadsword form , that I've learned and have seen the most of , cross many styles, was called "Tiger Tail" Broadsword-form,(Hu-wei dao-lu). Over the years,...(1949-ish' and beyond) , it was changed many times through many styles, and the last time I saw something that resembled it was a standard 'modern' Wu-Shu form called; Chu-gee dao-lu,..although not a beginner's form,(Chu-Gee means intermediate), ...it has some of the same movements as most basic sword forms, except the 'sword behind the back - slap the ground' movement in it. As things 'keep' changing,..it probably has changed as well over the last 30yrs. since the first version That I had learned,..lol'. Li Ma-Keh

[lostdragon]

Hey Oso, I saw a couple weeks ago, and thought I would post it. Called elementary broadsword. From a group called china hand kung fu.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyqr4yFU__w

Hopefully it will be of some use.

LD

[Li Ma-Keh]

LostDragon, That's it! That's the "Chu-Gee Dao-Lu" that I was talking about! Good job 'youtubeing',..lol'! Even though 'Chu-Gee' means 'intermediate',...some schools teach it as their 'first' or 'elementary' form. Cool', Li Ma-Keh

[ngokfei]

Isn't that set also known as the 32 broadsword. It was taught as part of a entire program. That had the #32 (long fist, sword, staff, spear,...)

[Oso]

Hey Oso, I saw a couple weeks ago, and thought I would post it. Called elementary broadsword. From a group called china hand kung fu.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyqr4yFU__w

Hopefully it will be of some use.

LD

i like it. thanks.

I'd still like to have something short and sweet like our Shaolin Shiba Gun.

I might take part of that set and simplify the changes and take it four directions or something.

[Li Ma-Keh]

ngokfei, Yes,..it is from the series of '32'-step forms. Broadsword,straightsword,staff,spear & empty-hand. All known as 'Chu-Gee',...in Chinese, '32' is pronounced; 'San-shr' Er' ,... or 'San-shr' Er' Bu',('32'-step'). Li Ma-Keh