Aikido when no one is trying to fall down

[JetLi'sFearless]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KAbbKRhnN4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DQqNusSNqI

check out these clips.

[cjurakpt]

for the life of me can't figure out what the point of that whole exercise is...:confused:

[JetLi'sFearless]

resistance? aliveness?

[Scott R. Brown]

That is not Aikido!

[cjurakpt]

resistance? aliveness?
resistance as in "let me let you grab my wrist first, then I'll start resisting"?

alive as in "let me move really slowly and predictably so you can keep up with me no problem"?

yeah, ok, resisting and alive, sure, whatever...

probably looks a lot like the cluster fu(k you had with your ganbanger friends in the dark alley...:rolleyes:

[Scott R. Brown]

probably looks a lot like the cluster fu(k you had with your ganbanger friends in the dark alley...:rolleyes:

LOL!! Only with fat guys! :D

[Knifefighter]

That is not Aikido!
While neither of those guys demonstrates much of an understanding of knife dymamics, it is still probably closer to what aikido would be like from a wrist grab position against a knife that the way aikido is usually taught.

[pazman]

I have no idea what those guys were doing in the first clips. For a more represenative selection of Aiki-randori, please check these clips out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTt8YwPaPCY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3Jt3Ekcfps

[JetLi'sFearless]

resistance as in "let me let you grab my wrist first, then I'll start resisting"?

alive as in "let me move really slowly and predictably so you can keep up with me no problem"?

yeah, ok, resisting and alive, sure, whatever...

probably looks a lot like the cluster fu(k you had with your ganbanger friends in the dark alley...:rolleyes:

so what were you expecting them to do Move their arms in circles and run 10 feet away form the other guy t o not have him grab their arm? or try to grab the arm while the other guy knows hes doing for it and anticipates it before he can move his arm back (which is an impossible feat in case you ddint know)? or throw bare knuckle strikes like a boxer?s eriously what else were you expecting?

[JetLi'sFearless]

judging by some threads here not long ago questioning the effectiveness of locks, most people here cant even get a simple arm lock or standing arm bar to work, so how do you expect these guys to be able to do it to each other (who know each others techniques and are partners of the same ma style) every second like in as teven seagal movie?

[5Animals1Path]

The older guy spends too much time focusing on keeping the knife away from him, instead of attempting to isolate the arm. I saw a few attempts at it, but he definetly should have had it after the throw with the arm sticking up in the air like that.

Unless I'm missing the point of the drill.

[Scott R. Brown]

While neither of those guys demonstrates much of an understanding of knife dymamics, it is still probably closer to what aikido would be like from a wrist grab position against a knife that the way aikido is usually taught.

Hi Knifefighter,

In Aikido the Nage does not attack the Uke. He either waits for an attack or draws out an attack. A GOOD Aikidoka would rather evade until a beneficial opening occurrs than grab a wrist and wrestle around accomplishing nothing. Traditional Aikido would also utilize strikes, if necessary. This is not Aikido as it is meant to be practiced even in knife randori.

[Shaolinlueb]

that was awful

here's better akido
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SJ5sHOGZv4

[pazman]

Shaolinlueb, you're comparing apples and oranges. Your clip was Steven Segal doing techniques on a non-resisting partners. Aiki-randori, as shown in my clips (and was attempted in the OP's clips) is against a restisting partner. Very different training methods and very different visually.

[LeeCasebolt]

so what were you expecting them to do Move their arms in circles and run 10 feet away form the other guy t o not have him grab their arm? or try to grab the arm while the other guy knows hes doing for it and anticipates it before he can move his arm back (which is an impossible feat in case you ddint know)? or throw bare knuckle strikes like a boxer?s eriously what else were you expecting?

Let the knifewielder initiate action and respond appropriately. Attempt to gain control of the weapon while defending yourself, then move on to a disarming or stab-back technique.

[shaolinboxer]

Looks more like judo than aikido as there is no focused initial attack.

[Mr Punch]

check out these clips.Terrible!


That is not Aikido!Agreed!


so what were you expecting them to do Move their arms in circles and run 10 feet away form the other guy t o not have him grab their arm? or try to grab the arm while the other guy knows hes doing for it and anticipates it before he can move his arm back (which is an impossible feat in case you ddint know)? or throw bare knuckle strikes like a boxer?s eriously what else were you expecting?


judging by some threads here not long ago questioning the effectiveness of locks, most people here cant even get a simple arm lock or standing arm bar to work, so how do you expect these guys to be able to do it to each other (who know each others techniques and are partners of the same ma style) every second like in as teven seagal movie?Gulp. Agreed! It is a werid day indeed: I've just agreed with Scott R Brown and JetLi'sFearless... somebody shoot me!


The older guy spends too much time focusing on keeping the knife away from him, instead of attempting to isolate the arm. I saw a few attempts at it, but he definetly should have had it after the throw with the arm sticking up in the air like that.

Unless I'm missing the point of the drill.Agreed.


that was awful

here's better akido
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SJ5sHOGZv4Puh-leease! A very big strong man throwing around smaller non-resisting people with no body connection through his hips? Easily impressed much?

I heard Seagal used to be good at aikido, then he got lazy, then he got fat and lazy.

I saw a vid of dan grading at his dojo: it was hailed as being full-speed and full-contact, and yet it was possibly the worst example of Scooby-doo two handed zombie rushes I've ever seen - everybody was outstretched and overbalanced before they made contact. The one good point about it is at one point one of the nage fell to the floor and was covered in a seething mass of non-resisting, non-attacking uke, and couldn't do anything, which just went to show what happens nine times out of ten in multiple 'attack' situations, even against aiki-zombies. Does anyone remember the movie Society? Like that.


Shaolinlueb, you're comparing apples and oranges. Your clip was Steven Segal doing techniques on a non-resisting partners. Aiki-randori, as shown in my clips (and was attempted in the OP's clips) is against a restisting partner. Very different training methods and very different visually.Precisely.

Though this type of aiki's insistance on the old one Errol Flynn lunge tends to **** me off. The first clip you posted was better than the second I think. It seemed like the judges really were scoring a loss on slight contact with the knife, whereas the second they seemed to have leeway to make a mistake or two.


Let the knifewielder initiate action and respond appropriately. Attempt to gain control of the weapon while defending yourself, then move on to a disarming or stab-back technique.Good point too.


Looks more like judo than aikido as there is no focused initial attack.I seem to remember Tomiki, the founder of competition aiki, like many other early Ueshiba deshi, was a judo guy who changed to aiki. I think he took his ideas of randori from judo, but as you can see from pazman's clips, although there are some similarities the techs are aikido. JLS's clips were ****-poor.

[Knifefighter]

Hi Knifefighter,

In Aikido the Nage does not attack the Uke. He either waits for an attack or draws out an attack. A GOOD Aikidoka would rather evade until a beneficial opening occurrs than grab a wrist and wrestle around accomplishing nothing. Traditional Aikido would also utilize strikes, if necessary. This is not Aikido as it is meant to be practiced even in knife randori.
Maybe not, but if one ups the intensity a bit, it is a good drill to practice from the position of already having control of the knife arm.

Obviously, you also need to practice from a disengaged range also.

[Knifefighter]

that was awful

here's better akido
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SJ5sHOGZv4
That was movie and demo "theoretical" B.S. aikido.

[Knifefighter]

I have no idea what those guys were doing in the first clips. For a more represenative selection of Aiki-randori, please check these clips out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTt8YwPaPCY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3Jt3Ekcfps
Nice to see some live, resisting, competitive aikido going on out there.

That's what aikdo looks like when done live.

[Mas Judt]

Yep.

No offense to the guys in the first clips, but that was just painful to watch.

[Scott R. Brown]

Maybe not, but if one ups the intensity a bit, it is a good drill to practice from the position of already having control of the knife arm.

Obviously, you also need to practice from a disengaged range also.

While I agree with you personally, it is not really part of the martial or combat philosophy of Aikido to do so. One may grab an opponent in order to illicit a certain response in order to perform a technique, but I have never seen someone walk up and grab the two wrists is of the attacker.

There are responses one may perform if the opponent grabs you and tries to stab or slash you, but to purposefully engage the opponent by grabbing them rather than evading or drawing an attack is not part of the Aikido combat plan.

But then O Sensei is not watching over the world's Aikidoka dictating what they may or may not do, LOL!! I don't follow a strict Aikido combat plan either. So while the demonstration is not pure Aikido per se, I give the men kudos for breaking out of a fixed mode to try their hand at alternative means of dealing with an attack. That is how we learn after all.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

I have no idea what those guys were doing in the first clips. For a more represenative selection of Aiki-randori, please check these clips out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTt8YwPaPCY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3Jt3Ekcfps

best akido clips i've ever seen. i've just gained some respect for the art outside of "usefull wristlocks that can be made to work in in more usefull arts." ill admit that i have never seen much akido to begin with and i always tried to keep that in mind ... but i always thought it would be nice to at least see some videos of what it would look like if someone wasnt cooperating. now i have. thanks.

kinda reminds me of judo but less direct.