FASTING: Master Cleanse: Has anyone done this?

[The Willow Sword]

I just started the Master Cleanse fast on friday. so far i am doing pretty good on it. Have eliminated some toxicity out of my body. i dont know how long i want to go on with it though. the minimum they say for this regimen is 10 days. Fuk man i dont know if i could do it. But so far i am doing pretty well with just the juice mixture that the MC calls for.

For those that dont know what the juice mix is. it is water and lemon/lime juice. Pure grade a dark amber maple syrup and cayenne pepper. You drink only this and no solids. in the morning you drink a quart of luke warm water mixed with two teaspoons of non-iodized salt(let me just say that this makes you crap your brains out). you can drink mint tea along with this fast as well.

when you get off the fast you consume fresh OJ then raw fruit in the afternoon and a raw veggie salad at night and then after that you can start eating regular foods again.

SO has anyone here ever done this or something similar? what happened and did it benefit you?
Peace, TWS

[Blacktiger]

I am a few days from finishing one myself but it is less harsh than the one you are describing...It sounds very tough.

You have to be careful with detox diets and trainig etc as some can be harmful.

Having said that Im feeling great, once you get over the initial break in period you feel good physically and have great mental clarity.

That my 2 cents



:D

[lonewolf]

my wife and i have done it before. same drink, but we also had fruit juice deluted with water during the day. we did this for five days. then we started adding the fruits and veggies back in. we are vegetarians so after that we were pretty much done. i really need to do one again. day 3 and 4 were tough though. fatigue and cramps get to you and you do have to watch out for work outs. stick with forms and walking, nothing too exerting. hope this helps.
this type of cleanse is also talked about in the book the way of peaceful warrior by dan millman:)

[The Willow Sword]

I had to break the fast today. FUK.:mad: My girlfriend told me that her math on the proportions of lemon maple and cayenne to water were way off:confused: Turns out we were consuming LESS water than the regimen calls for and so the lemon and maple syrup and cayenne were too concentrated. Haha so as a result it was cancelling out the properties and i no wonder i wasnt experiencing the good detox effects i should have been. SIGH:o So we are going to reset for next week and in the meantime i am eating vegan with some fish mixed in. I drank the OJ this morning and had some raw fruit, but lunch time rolled around and i had a wonderful vegan meal with brown rice:) .

oh well you live and learn. I will repost with the corrected juice proportions next week and give ya all a run down on what happens.

I agree with the training regimen on this. i found that i could do some laborous things but not a full gym workout.

Apologies ,,,,,Peace,TWS:o

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

i personally think that the body has an amazing ability to keep itself in balance and these kinds of extreme fasts arent necessary and may do more harm than good. a good cleaning might be in order, but i think it can be done by eating very strictly for a few weeks. whatever that means to you .... there are obviously different levels of this. but limiting yourself to such a small variety of nutrician for such an extended period of time just seems like bad news to me. your body may flush out some toxins, but i wonder what else goes out with it. if you must do something like this i would figure 2 or 3 days should be more than enough.

i admit that im basing all of this on a gut feeling. one that tells me to eat.

[The Willow Sword]

i personally think that the body has an amazing ability to keep itself in balance and these kinds of extreme fasts arent necessary and may do more harm than good. a good cleaning might be in order, but i think it can be done by eating very strictly for a few weeks. whatever that means to you .... there are obviously different levels of this. but limiting yourself to such a small variety of nutrician for such an extended period of time just seems like bad news to me. your body may flush out some toxins, but i wonder what else goes out with it. if you must do something like this i would figure 2 or 3 days should be more than enough.

i admit that im basing all of this on a gut feeling. one that tells me to eat.

I tend to agree with all of this GDA, However its not like this master cleanse is a "dry" fast,which,in my opinion, is detrimental more so than beneficial. The method behind the madness of the lemons and limes is that you are getting the potassium and vit c and a few other nutrients you would normally get eating solid food, the maple syrup gives you the carbs you need as well as minerals b vitamins and such to keep you from falling on your A$$ and the cayenne pepper is utilized to decongest your sinuses and internal mucos. The only thing that you are not really getting much of is protein(which the body has a harder time digesting).
So you drink this concoction in order to help the digestive system to relax and take a break while it flushes things out of your system. You drink that quart of luke warm salt water as a natural colonic(which works BTW, i shat my perverbial brains out 45 minutes after i drank it) the salt water mixture prevents the kidneys from absorbing the water and so it goes right through the large intestine. The mint tea is for a tonic that helps aid in bad breath that occurs and helps to cleanse the system.
I agree with the "well what else is it flushing out of your system". I agree that when you over consume something your kidneys go in to overdrive to flush it out(ie vitamin supplements, too much protein consumption etc) as your system flushes it also flushes good things out of you and therefore leaving you deficient.
It seems as though the lemonade prevents those over drive flushes that the kidneys work so hard to flush. I guess the only thing i would be concerned about with this "cleanse" is the flushing of the good bacteria flora in your large and snall intestine. that is easily remedied by consuming primadolpholis or acidolpholis found in natural yogurt cultures.
Anyway thats my say for now.
I hope more people try this, seems to have more positive effects than negative,what with all the stuff i have been reading on it.
Peace,TWS

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

i do actually think about this from time to time. i've cut way back on the supplaments, but for a while it was getting out of hand. all the fat soluable vitamins can start adding up.

i wonder if there are any fasts designed for weight lifters. one where you only eat like the equivalent of 2 normal people or something. seriously though ... sometimes i want to fast just because im tired of stuffing my eatin hole. do you know what kind of effect the over eating can have on the body over time?

[The Willow Sword]

do you know what kind of effect the over eating can have on the body over time?

hmm i guess the obvious answer would be obesity, but if you are working out constantly i guess you are preventing that.
if i could guestimate the other "hidden" detriments to overeating i would have to include gall stones/kidneys stones/diabetes/Bloating/uncontrolled and divorce inducing f@rting;) . Of course i am thinking now about how grain eating animals such as cows and horses etc can eat forever and in some instances they die from over eating. I will have to research this further about atheletes and over eating.

Peace,TWS

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

yeah obesity is the furthest of my problems. i am struggeling to gain weight and now that i've been walking in the cold and helping my buddy get ready for his fight its getting even harder which means im going to have to eat even more.

[SevenStar]

I just started the Master Cleanse fast on friday. so far i am doing pretty good on it. Have eliminated some toxicity out of my body. i dont know how long i want to go on with it though. the minimum they say for this regimen is 10 days. Fuk man i dont know if i could do it. But so far i am doing pretty well with just the juice mixture that the MC calls for.

For those that dont know what the juice mix is. it is water and lemon/lime juice. Pure grade a dark amber maple syrup and cayenne pepper. You drink only this and no solids. in the morning you drink a quart of luke warm water mixed with two teaspoons of non-iodized salt(let me just say that this makes you crap your brains out). you can drink mint tea along with this fast as well.

when you get off the fast you consume fresh OJ then raw fruit in the afternoon and a raw veggie salad at night and then after that you can start eating regular foods again.

SO has anyone here ever done this or something similar? what happened and did it benefit you?
Peace, TWS

One of my judo coaches (he's 80) said that when he was in school, the wrestler's used to drink that exact same thing to make weight. I had an old basketball coach tell me something similar. the maple syrup is for energy (carbs) and the pepper and citric acid is for shedding weight and speeding metabolism.

That said, I've never trusted fasting and have never done it for more than a few days, primarily for the same reasons gda mentioned.

[mickey]

Greetings,

I tried this diet in 2004. It nearly killed me. When I went back to see what I was doing wrong, I found that I was doing everything to the letter save one thing: REST. When this diet first became populatr people would go on a retreat and do absolutely nothing but convalesce for the entire time they were on it. Rest is the key with this diet.

If you are active, you will be running into serious problems (e.g., electrolyte issues) like I did.




mickey

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

oh and i didnt mean to hijack your thread.

then again considering the amount of traffic this section gets, any bump is a good bump.

[edit] ... nevermind you got some actual responses while my reply window sat untouched for an hour or so :)

[Li Kao]

I've considered trying the whole fasting thing before myself. Obviously, there are divergent opinions on the risks involved -- some say there is minimal risk and others have strong cautions. I've never felt comfortable enough to actually try it.

Willow, what kind of toxins are you yourself trying to flush out? My own feeling is that the fasting thing only makes sense when you are making a significant change to diet. If you are trying to eliminate toxins that enter the body through food, then flushing them will provide a very temporary benefit, but the toxins will return once you resume your normal diet. Is the fast part of a larger change or are you just curious and doing it as an experiment?

What Mickey said is something I have always heard too in regards to physical activity during fasting. I think most fasts are designed so that you are minimizing activity so I would be careful too if trying to do workouts and martial arts training while fasting. Fluid loss / electrolyte imbalance can cause major problems.

Not sure I will ever try this myself, but it's an interesting topic for sure. I'm more of a believer in eating a healthy, balanced diet and letting the body take care of itself. The body does an amazing job at maintaining homeostasis on its own (in the absence of pathology of course) so I figure why interfere with that. I've never understood the whole pill-popping phenomenon that our culture seems to embrace. For example, taking anti-inflammatories like ibuprofen when the body is just trying to do its job. The inflammatory response is a normal healing response -- when you have pain or stiffness in most instances, the body is trying to tell you something. Also, I like to lift weights and work out, and in that realm, I think so many people overuse supplements. Now, I work out just for general wellness, to complement my kung fu and lifestyle, and to have a fit, athletic physique, so it's not like I'm a hardcore gym rat who is wanting to get that "competitive edge", but it is outrageous to see how much money some of the guys in my gym spend on various powders, pills, and oils. Of course, most people think I'm crazy for having a rather large array of martial arts weaponry.

Anyways, make sure you let us know if you have another go at this Willow.

[The Willow Sword]

Willow, what kind of toxins are you yourself trying to flush out? My own feeling is that the fasting thing only makes sense when you are making a significant change to diet. If you are trying to eliminate toxins that enter the body through food, then flushing them will provide a very temporary benefit, but the toxins will return once you resume your normal diet. Is the fast part of a larger change or are you just curious and doing it as an experiment?

Well i had caught a serious sinus infection back in late november and it literally put me on my ass for a week, and i have not felt the same since. Now mind you i live in the 2nd on the list of major cities with the highest allergen and mold counts in the country(louisville kentucky is no. 1 i believe and it is strange that louisville is where i was born:confused: ) ANYWAY, my vitality was shot and i was having a hard time getting back in to my workouts at the gym as well as Running(which i have a passion for). i was doing some research and it was suggested to me that i do a master cleanse juice fast to get rid of lingering crud in my system. Its interesting that you mention "a significant change in diet". i was a vegetarian for well over 15 years in my early youth(started at age 8) i went back on animal proteins at the age of 23 and have still maintained what i believe to be a proper diet(that is still mainly vegetarian most of the time) my animal protien consumption is light at best with the occasional rare steak. I had decided that when i came off the fast that i would stick to a more macrobiotic diet that would include fish as a source of good protien and i would lay off the poultry and redmeat(which i hardly consume anyways) and also i am sticking to sprouted grain breads and no other processed wheat.
But as you read in an earlier post the recipe for the juice proportions got fuked up and i was consuming LESS water than recommended and more of the lemon maple syrup cayenne. So i and my girlfriend decided to break the fast after 4 days and reset to a later date(springtime). In those four days i felt fine other than the caffeine withdrawl symptoms i was having. I took the quart of luke warm salt water in the morning and had a significant flush of the colon( this is gross but it looked like i had eaten several neon yellow crayons:confused: ) I felt fine other than the withdrawl off the caffeine. When i broke the fast i drank the OJ in the morning and had raw fruit as well and then at lunch time i had a strictly Vegan meal at a vegan joint here in Austin that is a wonderful place to go to (Veggie Heaven). i felt great afterwards and have had no complications or discomforts at all.
I agree with the "REST" factor when doing fasts like these. you dont want to do a serious workout when you are just consuming the lemonade, but i felt fine and was able to do most everything else that i normally do. I am a Massage Therapist in Training now so i am doing alot of body work on people and was operating very well during those 4 days doing body work and receiving body work as well.
I think each person is different and will respond differently based on their own body and physiology and mental state. I am in pretty good shape and have alot of endurance and stamina when it comes to things like that so i usually fair pretty well. anyway thats all i gotta say for now. Li kao i hope this gives ya some insights.

Peace,TWS

[DaveTart]

Do people here honestly think straving yourself is a good way to improve all your bodies systems?!

How are your organs that clean your blood to remove "toxins" (whatever the hell you mean by that) without adequate energy etc? It's hardly surprising that people more ill, not less ill when they are malnurised.

Your body is more than capable of "clensing" itself without resorting to this quackery. You don't want nasty toxins from caffeine? DON'T DRINK COFFEE. Suddenly starving yourself isn't going to make your liver/kidneys magically work faster/harder.

If you want to improve immune responses and so on - eat a balanced diet with plenty of fruit and veg. Don't starve yourself.

[The Willow Sword]

Actually you are not "Straving" :rolleyes: yourself when you do this type of cleanse. Being that the Lemonade concoction helps to support your energyand nutrient levels whilst your digestive system takes a break from trying to digest the protiens we put in to it.

Dry fasts that only include a little bread as a carb load to maintain energy, in my opinion, are dangerous and you wouldnt last very long on it anyway. Water fasts are dangerous as well in that you flush a lot of key nutrients out of the body, such as potassium(which aids in healthy heart function). Most fasting is a spiritual thing that one would do to inact a suffering and endurance on the body to gain some sort of "pureness" of spirit etc etc.
I think that in the thousand plus years that fasting has been done in the world that it was found that in certain instances that fasting actually helped the body to detox. True there are other beneficial ways to detox the body, such as Massage and body work, sauna, bathing, taking herbs that are designed to get the kidneys to flush(as they are doing all the time anyway),or abstaining from consuming foods and beverages that are detrimental to the body, It still remains that fasting is at the forefront of the initial detox process.
SO Davetart whereas i can sort of agree with what you refer to as "quackery" i do not agree that this Master cleanse fast is quackery and can attest that even in my misproportions of the lemonade mix, i functioned quite well for 4 days without taking in solids.
Do a little more research on the matter before you start making judgments based on personal opinion. Here in this section of the KFM forums we like to read about FACTS and tried and tested methods of training diet etc etc. It doesnt bode well to chime in and express a very typical opinion of diet that we have all heard so many times before. has a "trollish" ring to it.

Peace,TWS

[DaveTart]

Do a little more research on the matter before you start making judgments based on personal opinion. Here in this section of the KFM forums we like to read about FACTS and tried and tested methods of training diet etc etc. It doesnt bode well to chime in and express a very typical opinion of diet that we have all heard so many times before. has a "trollish" ring to it.

So you have clinical trials backing it up then? You have FACTS (beyond anecdotal evidence) to show how healthy it is? Perhaps you are doing it on the advice of a qualified dietician?

So far it sounds like the normal BS "detox" diet crap to me:

http://healthlibrary.epnet.com/GetContent.aspx?token=dce59228-1023-4705-b1c7-b407be7b4fc6&chunkiid=100544

[The Willow Sword]

Seems to me that the Western Medical profession and its "scientific research" has been instrumental in its attempts to "debunk" the claims of holistic medicine and alternative ways other than the typical western approach to health and wellness. The drug companies out there have a quite a grip on the shorthairs of the western medical profession to follow ITS rhetoric and supports its clinical trials with respect to medicines, not to mention the dairy council and the meat council and its special interests lining the pockets of the western medical profession to go to their tune with respects to health and wellenss. Of course there is a movement in this country to suppress and debunk the claims that alternative methods of maintaining health and wellness. There is also a counter movement that is growing in strength and seems to have eclipsed the notion that you have to take a pill to cure your ills. The fact still remains that the drug companies make billions off their wonder drugs and have their clinical trials to back their own claims. Yet we see the side effects produced by these wnder drugs and the western approach to health and wellness. It makes me laugh everytime i see a commercial to promote some new pill that helps in ailments. we have smiling faces and people running around as if jesus himself hath layed his hands on them and cured their ills. THEN we have the very quick reciting of the possible and reported harsh side effects of such drugs and then a caption or statement that reads "isnt about time you start getting your life back?" or some remark to that degree. LOL.

Its amazing to me that people can allow themselves to be sucked in to all the western rhetoric and put aside or scoff at all other alternatives. Even though not many "clinical trials" have been done to substantiate the myrid of positive claims that certain forms of "fasting" and alternative and holistic treatments actually have helped greatly more so than western drugs and treatments.( i mean think about the financial impact on the drug companies if more clinical trials like these were done and that they totally debunked the billion dollar industry of creating wonder drugs than can do just about anything for your ills?) Has a ring of snake oil salesmen in the 1800's ,who, when their crappy miracles cures were routed out and found to be dangerous they were tarred and feathered or worse yet HUNG for their greed and preying upon less keen minds. Not so today, today we have the biggest snake oil salesmen like merck and pfizer and many others(who are in constant litigation for their fuked up medicines) sounding the call to buy buy buy their drugs and marketing them in that entertaining way to all of us who are so fuking gullible as to dance along with them and blindly believe that just because they are "scientific" they know what the fuk they are talking about and we should trust them, and why? well because of those clinical trials which even state the obvious that if you take these drugs there is a chance of severe side effects. Why then would you even WISH to take these things to alleviate one ailment and then create another? are we that fuking moronic?

So why is it that many scoff at the idea of "FASTING" and consuming something as simple as a lemonade concotion to HELP rid the body of excess that we so indulge in every fuking day of our lives? Oh well its just too fuking simple now isnt it? AND if its so simple a remedy then it must not be anything more than some stupid fukin charlatan snake oil salesman preying upon the weak minded and the gullible:rolleyes:
Maybe YOU DaveTart need to take a look at what you believe to be true and fact and at least have an open mind about those alternative ways of healing and maintaining your body. Mind you that there are the same kinds of BS on the alternative side of health and wellness and i know them well and have been privey to their bullsh!t and scams. But i would like to think that i can intelligently weed out the BS. Ask yourself this when it comes to alternative methods, What are the major side effects of having some hippi wave a crystal around your head and you being stupid enough to believe that it is having any effect on your health, as opposed to taking a drug that has a side effect that could KILL you or make you feel fukin worse than you already do? Seems to me the harsh side effect of the first mentioned quackery is that you just got Had and are out the 50 or so bucks you paid the hippi as opposed to the thousands of dollars you paid in taxes and insurance to be HAD by some "science" and "clinical trials":rolleyes:


Peace,TWS

[DaveTart]

So, when you say "Here in this section of the KFM forums we like to read about FACTS and tried and tested methods of training diet etc etc."
what you actually mean is "anything other than a scientific trial proving the effaciency of a drug in a clinical setting": Interesting interpretation of "facts".

And wanting to have medical claims backed up by actual evidence is to be "Sucked in by western rhetoric"? Do you realise how dumb that sounds? Do you suggest a better way of accessing the vericity of health claims beyond a randomized double blind placebo trial? Anecdotal evidence? Wishful thinking?

And there is a very good reason "drugs" have side effects - THEY HAVE REAL EFFECTS. Unlike many many "alternative" therapies which are placebo's.
You can keep your unproven alternative medicines thank you very much, I'd much rather have tested drugs. You know, those ones backed up facts...

[The Willow Sword]

So, when you say "Here in this section of the KFM forums we like to read about FACTS and tried and tested methods of training diet etc etc."
what you actually mean is "anything other than a scientific trial proving the effaciency of a drug in a clinical setting": Interesting interpretation of "facts".

no not at all, since when are FACTS confined to just a scientific FACT?

oh and the scientific FACTS are out there that Placebos have worked in certain instances. Sheesh what a concept, the belief that you are going to get well by taking a pill and that pill not being anything more than a sugar pill and you actually alleviate your ailment? Self healing??:eek: holy jesus marimba that sounds like a bunch of quackery:rolleyes:

its cool though DaveTart, you live in your world and i live in mine, seems like we are both not the worse for our ideals and diet choices and methods we utilize to maintain our health and wellness.

Peace and good luck to you,TWS

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

i like cheese lolz.

[unkokusai]

Do people here honestly think straving yourself is a good way to improve all your bodies systems?!

How are your organs that clean your blood to remove "toxins" (whatever the hell you mean by that) without adequate energy etc? It's hardly surprising that people more ill, not less ill when they are malnurised.

Your body is more than capable of "clensing" itself without resorting to this quackery. You don't want nasty toxins from caffeine? DON'T DRINK COFFEE. Suddenly starving yourself isn't going to make your liver/kidneys magically work faster/harder.

If you want to improve immune responses and so on - eat a balanced diet with plenty of fruit and veg. Don't starve yourself.

..............................................

LOL!!!:D

[DaveTart]

no not at all, since when are FACTS confined to just a scientific FACT?

Well, since this conversation is about health benefits of diet - Can you suggest what other kind of fact would be helpful in this situation?
How are scientific facts with verifiable claims not the most pertinant in this situation?

would you rather talk about historical facts perhaps? though just because "the ancients did it" doesn't at all prove that it is an effective treatment.


oh and the scientific FACTS are out there that Placebos have worked in certain instances. Sheesh what a concept, the belief that you are going to get well by taking a pill and that pill not being anything more than a sugar pill and you actually alleviate your ailment? Self healing??:eek: holy jesus marimba that sounds like a bunch of quackery:rolleyes:

Placebo's are helpful in practically all instances I think. However, just because something works AS A PLACEBO does not mean it works as an effective treatment. ie you can give someone placebos for all sorts of fatal diseases which might make them feel better in the short term (wow, my homeopath gave me this superdrug, I feel great now) but it's not going to stop them dying as SUGAR PILLS DON'T CURE CANCER.

To be honest, if you don't understand the difference between a placebo effect, and an actual effect; you have bigger problems than I thought.

**EDIT****
Just to add this (from Dr. Ben Goldacre - www.badscience.net) about "Holistic" nutrition:
"There is no such thing as “holistic nutrition”: if you make statements about food and are backed up by academic/scientific research, as McKeith does, repeatedly, in her books, her shows, her semi-academic work, and products … then that’s just nutrition. The word “holistic” is at best a piece of branding; but at worst, it’s a cloak for accepting inadequate standards of referencing and evidence."

[Li Kao]

I can relate to what Willow was saying about the whole "take 2 of these and call me in the morning" attitude that has come over Western medicine. I think a lot of people want the fantasy of a "miracle" pill that will cure all that ails them. I'm a student of Western medicine myself -- obviously technology and the constantly evolving science have made huge progresses over the years. Think of how many lives have been saved because of penicillin or how many lives have been extended because of advances like the artificial heart. But there is still that conception that people have regarding the medical field that is similiar to fad diets. It makes one wonder things like -- is it better to risk getting skin cancer from sun exposure, or better to take the risks of letting heavy metals in sunscreen seep into your system? And when you see a comercial for headache pain, haven't you ever thought "Hmm, maybe I'd rather just deal with the headache than risk anal leakage?" :p Let's face it -- people will do just about anything to look and feel better -- how else can you explain people willingly injecting one of the most poisonous naturally occurring substances in the world, the Botulinum toxin, into their body?

[DaveTart]

I think there is enough anecdotal evidence to suggest that (unsurprisingly) people prefer to go to a homeopath who spends a good hour with you and talks to you about everything, than a doctor who can only spend 20mins with you.
However, that doesn't in anyway mean that homeopathy is suddenly better for you by any means.

The other other error people assume is that a doctor (or anyone) can diagnose you 100% in one sitting, so you get this "I went to the doctor and all he did was give me pills" thing. Yes, but... if you don't get better - GO BACK! In fact, I think it says as much on every single drug packet.

Incidently on the botox thing - I've always wondered if it would be possible to market nausea/diahorea causing bacteria as a weight-loss drug. after all, if people are willing to under go risky surgery and endure weeks of recovery time for liposuction - a week of vomiting should be nothing! ;)

[GreenCloudCLF]

Fasting makes no sense on a scientific...or even a logical level. The body needs a certain amount of Macro and Micro nutrients to function in normal day-to-day tasks, not to mention the extra stuff your average martial artist does.

How can cutting out your sources of energy and body regulation be anything but bad for you?


___OOPs I didnt read the whole thread before posting...seems like someone beat me to this point of view.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

it seems to me that dave feels safer sticking with what's been proven by western science and willow doesnt want to take it in the pooper.

fair enough.

[The Willow Sword]

http://www.medical-library.net/sites/framer.html?/sites/_scientific_basis_for_juice_fasting.html

This is just one perspective but hopefully it will put some here into perspective.
The fast that i am in the process of doing again would be considered a juice fast.

Peace,TWS

it seems to me that dave feels safer sticking with what's been proven by western science and willow doesnt want to take it in the pooper.

Correct you are sir,hehe. The pooper is an exit point NOT and Entranceway.

[DaveTart]

http://www.medical-library.net/sites/framer.html?/sites/_scientific_basis_for_juice_fasting.html

This is just one perspective but hopefully it will put some here into perspective.
The fast that i am in the process of doing again would be considered a juice fast.

Shame the perspective seems to be pseudoscience rubbish. "Low Level Toxemia"?? Oddly, a google search only shows up that phrase - On his website.

"Toxemia" has nothing to do with what he claims (about "Toxins" such uric acid and CO2) Here is a Clinical definition: http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=15914

and here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxemia

You honestly trust a "Doctor"* who has no idea at all what he is talking about?

And even IF cells stored this stuff? AND? drink a glass of water, go to the toilet and your body will suddenly be free of all these nasty things - That is what your organs DO.
Seriously, talk to a doctor. If your liver/kidneys can't clean your blood - you have serious problems.

*I use the term loosely. He never states where he studied or what board awarded him his doctorate.
Compare this to http://www.badscience.net/?page_id=4 eg.

A few more things:
"Any fast should be supervised by a doctor experienced in fasting. Generally speaking, these doctors practice nutritional medicine."
Interestingly enough "nutritionist" is a label ANYONE can claim, it is different from a Dietician who had to actually go to medical school.

"Only when this state of knowledge is reached can we rationally consider the benefits of fasting from a scientific point of view."
And yet, strangely - no reference to any scientific studies AT ALL. Zero, Nada. NOTHING. Ironically he then bangs on about Doctors "offering opinions" - which is exactly what he has done here.

Incidently: Did anyone watch "The Truth about Food" last night? Where they did a nice experiment with a group of people on a detox diet, and a control group. Conclusion: NO benefit was found for the detox group when measured for toxins in the blood/urine.

[SevenStar]

Coincidentally, the local news talked about master cleanse over the weekend. They stated that sevral celebs had used it and raved over it, but every doctor they interviewed advised AGAINST doing it.

[The Willow Sword]

SO what are YOUR credentials? are YOU a Doctor? Are Your opinions based on your in depth study in the medical field at a reputable medical school? Or is all of your "opinions" based on just layman information and what you have read on your own?
You base a great deal of your opinions on the lack of clinical studies or trials to determine for a fact that fasting doesnt help the body. All we have is one study that proved that in that particular group that NO benefits were found for the detox group when measured for toxins in the blood/urine. Ok so that was a detox DIET, NOT a Fast(which is what we are talking about here). Oh and for your info the term Nutritionist DOES have a classification and one must be well learned in several fields of study before that designation can be bestowed upon them<legally that is, i dont doubt that there are those out there that take advantage of the term. but here is a link so that there isnt any confusion about that term and its meanings or qualifications
http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos077.htm of course the statistical info on this concerns me a bit, the state to state requirements that is.

Now Albeit that i miscalculated the proportions of the master cleanse lemonade and had to break the fast early, i still felt pretty good and felt a bit better after not having eaten anything solid for 4 days. Thousands of others have done the Master cleanse correctly and have not reported any ill side effects or experienced any adverse health conditions as a result of doing the Lemonade diet. Since we have many testimonials to the positive and very few on the negative other than "Doctors" saying "well you shouldnt do that because...........". It would seem that the doctors have been proven wrong in many instances. Sure its not a clinical study but if you look at how many have done this and have come out of it feeling better and having certain ailments cured or at least alleviated and controlled,then i would say that in deed the trials have been done,on a personal level, and the same results have made themselves clear, at least to me and others they have.
I would gladly partake in a clinical study on fasting, in fact i have done several clinical studies and trials over the past 3 years and so i DO know the setting and i know what happens in them and i know the results of those trials. There seems to be a repetetive theme in all of them. The drug will block and alleviate one symptom(the symptom the drug is targeting) and will create a host of other symptoms(side effects and YES they are REAL effects) that are seemingly WORSE that the original symptom the drug was trying to target. How is it then that these seemingly wonderful drugs get put out on the market with all these horrid REAL side effects? Well the answer is MONEY and the need to have more money, doesnt seem to me that this aspect of western science and medicine is really all that interested in CURING anything, just really expensive "blockers" that target a symptom and facilitates no healing at all of the root cause of the symptom.
Sure we have a few cures for things but in the grand scheme it is very little when you look at some of the plagues that have ripped through our world and communities( AIDS, CANCER in its many forms, which some can be controlled and cured but with a ton of horrid side effects and health hazards, even something as simple as herpes which has been around for a long long time and all we have to show for that little issue is "suppresive therapy", which really doesnt CURE the problem). i could name many other diseases but i think i have made my point clear here.
Back to Fasting and the lack of clinical trials to substantiate in the western medical science's eye that Fasting helps the body to detox. I think the reason why there hasnt been any is because of what i have written about in the above long winded paragraph. If it was shown that somethig as simple as Fasting and a decent healthy diet could prevent and alleviate certain body and system ailments the medical profession in this country would go bankrupt because people would then not have to spend a ton of $$ to their medical provider to get RX's of CR@P that do really NOTHING to the body other than to make it work harder to process those drugs in the body. Once again the Bulk of western doctors would make less and less $$ because people would be healthier and not have to go get regular checkups and be prescribed for bullsh!T ailments like restless leg syndrom or lower back pain experienced in depression, or even depression in of itself which most of the time our depression or, uhh excuse me here is another way to describe depression, OUR EMOTIONS are just reactive 9 times out of 10 rather than "clinical".
Given that these statements are opinions, alot of the thought process here is based on first hand experience of some of these drugs(except the suppresive therapy,hehehe i dont have herpes) and of course the study that i do on my own,like you do DaveTard. I can only base my opinions on first hand experiences. what do YOU base YOUR opinions on? Just what you read? Or did you do a Fast and it not produce the desired effect, or maybe you are a diabetic? Help us out here Dave.

Peace,TWS

[AndrewS]

Sorry I got to this dance late folks.

First off- the burden of proof lies on those who make a claim, especially when that claim is one outside conventionally accepted scientific thought.

TWS writes:

Seems to me that the Western Medical profession and its "scientific research" has been instrumental in its attempts to "debunk" the claims of holistic medicine and alternative ways other than the typical western approach to health and wellness.

What do you mean by 'its "scientific research" '- good medicine seeks to use good science as a tool. Science is a definable process and method of inquiry. One can clearly state when something in medicine is based on science and the scientific method and when it is 'the standard of care'. When the underlying mechanisms of action of a medical procedure- from cognitive behavioral therapy to physical therapy to acupuncture to surgery to pharmacology- are hypothesized, experiments are performed to validate those hypotheses, and clinical trials are performed and subject to statistical analysis to determine if a therapy has a reasonable risk/benefit ratio, that's SCIENCE, not "science". People who make unsupported statements about various fasts, diets, and massage releasing some non-specific toxins or 'evil humours' are invoking "science" as they bullsh*t.

I'm always amazed at these claims of exorcising the evil toxins through whatever method. You'ld think it would be pretty easy to measure what's being released (and precipitating out a bunch of bile salts during 'master cleanse' or a 'liver cleanse' is basic high school chemistry done in your small bowel, not getting the poison out. Your body makes those things for a variety of purposes, well defined and studied.).


The drug companies out there have a quite a grip on the shorthairs of the western medical profession to follow ITS rhetoric and supports its clinical trials with respect to medicines,

I suppose my personal grooming choices have prevented me from succumbing to this, what luck!

Er, yeah, drug companies have money and try to sell drugs; drugs which they must prove are safe and effective (in front of a hamstrung and politicized FDA which the current adminstration has been trying to change from the global standard for drug safety into a rubber stamp, but that's another rant). Purveyors of supplements, fasts, nutriceuticals, colonic irrigation, and naturopathic vetrinary medicine must only convince the credulous and uneducated citizen, and your critical thinking skills are not making it look like you're headed anywhere near the FDA (unless you're a pro-life OB who believes in the power of prayer in contraception and regularly anally rapes his wife, in which case give them a call, Rove's hiring).



not to mention the dairy council and the meat council and its special interests lining the pockets of the western medical profession to go to their tune with respects to health and wellenss.

D*mn, my check didn't show again this month! Excellent analysis of the health benefits (or lack therof) of vegetarianism, dairy, etc. are readily available. Thousands of good studies on diet and its effects on overall morbidity and mortality as well as modification of disease progression in any number of pathologic processes are available and widely distributed. These have measurable benefit, can be examined and debated, and tried by those who suffer from these ailments. Horrible bias, that.



Of course there is a movement in this country to suppress and debunk the claims that alternative methods of maintaining health and wellness.


Uh, half the country uses some form of 'alternative' therapy- the suppression isn't working too well. NIH is funding at around the rate of 1,000,000,000 a year for 'alternative and complementary medical research', dozens of studies on various herbal and nutritional remedies are coming out weekly if not daily. You have a problem knowing if something works? Or if it hurts people? Western medicine used to treat cardiac arrhythmias with a variety of agents to prevent sudden death. Large scale trials were done, the drugs were found to stop arrhythmias, but also kill people (no net survival benefit), and those drugs are no longer used, and the drug companies took a bath.



There is also a counter movement that is growing in strength and seems to have eclipsed the notion that you have to take a pill to cure your ills.


Are you talking about the Luddites who chose to demonize reason, the hucksters trying to make a buck off the desparate and foolish, or the people who are applying the scientific method to explore the validity of the claims of various alternative practices?


The health care system in this country is terminally f*cked, I'll agree, yet this rush to assume a vast conspiracy to keep people sick is delusional and offensive to anyone who tries to put people back together.


t i have done several clinical studies and trials over the past 3 years and so i DO know the setting and i know what happens in them and i know the results of those trials.

Uh, you designed them? Were an investigator? Got a couple of bucks for some blood, bone marrow, whatever? And this gives you the position to make anything like an educated statement on clincial trials? What profound arrogance and stupidity? Have you considered a post in the Bush administration? You seem to have the sort of qualifications they look for in oversight of NASA, or FEMA, or reconstruction in Iraq.

And here you **** me off. . .


Well the answer is MONEY and the need to have more money, doesnt seem to me that this aspect of western science and medicine is really all that interested in CURING anything, just really expensive "blockers" that target a symptom and facilitates no healing at all of the root cause of the symptom.

Welcome to the modern world and grow the f*ck up. Nothing happens without cash flow; it's the gravity of society. You may dislike that reality, but that's exactly what Marx made his bones pointing out, before he attempted to posit an economic system which would result in a society of greater benefit to the individual than capitalism.


Sure we have a few cures for things but in the grand scheme it is very little when you look at some of the plagues that have ripped through our world and communities( AIDS, CANCER in its many forms, which some can be controlled and cured but with a ton of horrid side effects

You miserable ignorant little fool.

I grew up in part around the modern art world in the 1980s, wondering where my parents friends were going as they absented themselves from gallery openings, back when AIDS was GRID. I was a third year medical student on the HIV ward in 1996. I watched intelligent, educated decent men die of the myriad complications of HIV. In 1997 HAART began, the therapy you so casually dismiss as meaningless. When I returned to that ward for my acting internship, we had perhaps 1/10 the number of AIDS patients in house, some truly unlucky, but most mentally ill and unable to take their drugs. By the 3rd year of my residency, we no longer had a dedicated AIDS ward. One of my infectious disease colleagues has stopped doing HIV medicine- it's no longer intellectually rewarding 'cos the therapies are so good, people rarely develop the interesting complications which drew so many very bright doctors to the field (yeah, good MDs like sick patients; we have no incentive to keep them that way, there will *always* be more).

And you wave this away? The treatment isn't good enough for you? Please, make sure that neither you, nor anyone you care about comes to a physician. Take no drugs, receive no surgery, just bask in your righteousness.



and health hazards, even something as simple as herpes which has been around for a long long time and all we have to show for that little issue is "suppresive therapy", which really doesnt CURE the problem). i could name many other diseases but i think i have made my point clear here.


It would seem that the point you've made is that you're a callow and deluded fool who should go spend some time volunteering in a cancer clinic, hospice, or emergency room, before you air your ignorance so publically. I sincerly hope that you are merely young and ignorant, 'cos if you're over 25, my diagnosis is terminal stupidity. Try to check out before you breed as a favor to the rest of us.

Andrew

[DaveTart]

SO what are YOUR credentials? are YOU a Doctor? Are Your opinions based on your in depth study in the medical field at a reputable medical school? Or is all of your "opinions" based on just layman information and what you have read on your own?

Ad hominem arguments won't work here. No, I'm not a doctor, But I do understand how evidence based medicine works - You clearly don't. You clearly don't understand basic logically fallacies either. I'll put this capitals in case you missed it in Andrew's post:

the burden of proof lies on those who make a claim, especially when that claim is one outside conventionally accepted scientific thought

The only evidence you've given is one massively flawed article, which I've already pulled apart. You've failed to address the point that "Low Level Toxemia" Is a made up term, which seems to be the supposed reason for fasting.


Oh and for your info the term Nutritionist DOES have a classification and one must be well learned in several fields of study before that designation can be bestowed upon them<legally that is, i dont doubt that there are those out there that take advantage of the term. but here is a link so that there isnt any confusion about that term and its meanings or qualifications

That article seems to use "nutrionist" and a symonym for "dietician" Do you not think it's a bit odd that ALL the job titles are "Dieticians"? Oh, and from Wikipedia:

Nutritionists should not be confused with dietitians. Dietitians are health care professionals who have received specialised, formal accredited tertiary education and training, and undertake internship in hospitals, and are an approximate equivalent to a registered nurse. Dietitians are required to adhere to their regulatory body's code of conduct. A "nutritionist", in comparison, requires no training, and can often be little more than an opinionated clerk at a health food store.


I can only base my opinions on first hand experiences. what do YOU base YOUR opinions on? Just what you read? Or did you do a Fast and it not produce the desired effect, or maybe you are a diabetic? Help us out here Dave.

First hand experiences are anecdotal and therefore bunk in proving the veracity of a claim. You'll be banging on about how you can "feel" your chi next.
I base my opinions on the evidence at hand. I weigh that evidence, and decide based on that how to form my idea's about the truth of the matter. So far on one side we have one article that is massively flawed - on the other we have several comments from qualified doctors and experiments to say that detoxing has zero effect, and other doctors saying fasting can be potentially harmful.

[The Willow Sword]

AndrewS.

I find your brash insults towards me and deluded views on my political and spiritual beliefs,which are way off base, very funny. I seriously doubt that you would have the nerve to tout it to my face. This is a safe avenue with which to kung fu keyboard your over emotional diatribe without any consequence. Feel better now that you got it all off your chest? I hope so. Seems like i have touched on some nerve points that set you right off, :D . Amazing that such a wise and well scholared MD such as you make yourself out to be would allow such a young poorly educated and misconstrued scrub such as myself to get the better of your Maturity:rolleyes: .

Peace,TWS

[AndrewS]

TWS,

I will happily call you an idiot to your face. Most of the folks who know me face to face know that well.

Yes, you annoy me. I make no pretense to be 'mature', and don't view anger as a negative.


Your sole response seems to be pointing that out.

Thank you for sending me your phone number, but I feel no need carry on a private conversation with you, I responded mainly because allowing such stupidity to be spouted unopposed in public grants it validation, and I'm quite tired of having to deal with magical thinking when someone has a real problem that needs immediate address.

Andrew

[The Willow Sword]

I will happily call you an idiot to your face. Most of the folks who know me face to face know that well.

Most Folks who know you prolly think that you are a pr!ck too,because of that Fact stated above. Maybe they dont tell you that face to face.

Yes, you annoy me

Good, Im glad that i do.

I make no pretense to be 'mature', and don't view anger as a negative.

Which is part of your own personal problems and issues and maybe you should partake of those wonderful anti-depressants that "work" so well to quell those issues. Or maybe you are one of those MD's who drowns their sorrows in a bottle,or better yet, does a few lines to enhance that wonderful personality of yours,LOL:D


Sorry guys but this thread has, as many others in this whole forum, turned to cr@p. Got too wrapped up on debating with Moe and Curly that i missed what i was trying to get accomplished here, which was to get some feedback on those who have done fasts before and what was their experiences and if it benefitted them and their training and such.

I will repost at another time when i start to do the Master Cleanse Fast again( spring time or early summer) Hopefully by then the two jerks will have better things to do. Anyway i apologize to the rest of you, i didnt think that this thread would turn out like it did.

Take care and Peace to all(yes even the Pr!cks as well)
TWS

[DaveTart]

Got too wrapped up on debating with Moe and Curly that i missed what i was trying to get accomplished here, which was to get some feedback on those who have done fasts before and what was their experiences and if it benefitted them and their training and such.

So basicly - You wanted feedback about Fasts, which we gave you. We backed up our comments with reference to studies and medical advice from doctors. We pointed out your reasons for fasting (to get rid of "toxemia") are fundementally flawed, and the evidence for fasts being beneficial is shaky at best.

Oddly enough - You (who originally demanded Facts) have completely ignored all this advice and feedback because it doesn't fit with what you want to hear - That fasts are good for you. Well done on your open mindedness.

[mawali]

The Master Cleanse diet is very extreme and because of that many people will fail to follow its requirements. Plus, it is not for everyone!
The body does not always clean itself but if we eat the most enzymatically pure food we are halfway there. Some steps:
1. Give up the sweet drinks. Replace with water and even the water/lime or lemon mix.
2. Be more physically active.
3. Watch the gut associated with obesity. All of that stuff is dried food stuffs adhereing to the abdominal wall and intestines.
4. Eat more life foods. Less fried and other stuff.

For background and informational purposes only;
All o fthat stuff does come out of your intestines!
Please look at the principles and concepts.

http://www.drnatura.com/

[AndrewS]

Some stuff from pub med- search: fasting, complementary medicine, english, adults

Briefly- you get some blood pressure lowering effects, comparable to what would be associated with an Ornish or <2g/day sodium diet, improved glucose tolerance, and drop in lipolysis (you slow the rate of fat breakdown).

s there any effect of Ramadan fasting on stroke incidence?

Bener A,
Hamad A,
Fares A,
Al-Sayed HM,
Al-Suwaidi J.
Department of Medical Statistics and Epidemiology, Hamad Medical Corporation and Hamad General Hospital, University of Qatar, Doha. abener@hmc.org.qa
INTRODUCTION: Over one billion Muslims fast worldwide during the month of Ramadan. Fasting during Ramadan is a radical change in lifestyle for the period of a lunar month. The objective of this study was to investigate whether Ramadan fasting has any effect on the incidence of stroke and its outcome in a geographically-defined population. METHODS: We retrospectively reviewed a 13-year stroke database and studied the data on Muslim patients who were hospitalised with stroke over a 13-year period from January 1991 to December 2003. Patients were divided according to the time of presentation in relation to the month of Ramadan, one month before, during, and one month after Ramadan. The number of hospitalisations for stroke in various time periods was analysed. The age of presentation, gender, cardiovascular risk factor profiles (smoking status, hypertension, hypercholesterolaemia, diabetes mellitus, and pre-existing cardiovascular disease) were analysed. We also studied the trends of in-hospital mortality, morbidity and acute medical care provided. RESULTS: Overall, 335 Muslim patients were hospitalised for stroke. Their mean age and standard deviation were 56.99 and 13.9 years, respectively. The number of hospitalisations for stroke was not significantly different in the month of Ramadan (29 cases), when compared to the month before Ramadan (30 cases) and the month after Ramadan (29 cases). Risk factors included for stroke were not significantly different in Ramadan when compared to the month before and after Ramadan. These associated diseases were hypertension, diabetes mellitus, hypercholesterolaemia, acute myocardial infarction, and congestive heart failure. CONCLUSION: This study demonstrated that no significant difference was found in the number of hospitalisations for stroke while fasting during the month of Ramadan when compared to the non-fasting months.
PMID: 16645691 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

J Appl Physiol. 2005 Dec;99(6):2128-36. Epub 2005 Jul 28. Links
Effect of intermittent fasting and refeeding on insulin action in healthy men.

Halberg N,
Henriksen M,
Soderhamn N,
Stallknecht B,
Ploug T,
Schjerling P,
Dela F.
Dept. of Muscle Research Centre, The Panum Institute, University of Copenhagen, Denmark. nilsh@mfi.ku.dk
Insulin resistance is currently a major health problem. This may be because of a marked decrease in daily physical activity during recent decades combined with constant food abundance. This lifestyle collides with our genome, which was most likely selected in the late Paleolithic era (50,000-10,000 BC) by criteria that favored survival in an environment characterized by fluctuations between periods of feast and famine. The theory of thrifty genes states that these fluctuations are required for optimal metabolic function. We mimicked the fluctuations in eight healthy young men [25.0 +/- 0.1 yr (mean +/- SE); body mass index: 25.7 +/- 0.4 kg/m(2)] by subjecting them to intermittent fasting every second day for 20 h for 15 days. Euglycemic hyperinsulinemic (40 mU.min(-1).m(-2)) clamps were performed before and after the intervention period. Subjects maintained body weight (86.4 +/- 2.3 kg; coefficient of variation: 0.8 +/- 0.1%). Plasma free fatty acid and beta-hydroxybutyrate concentrations were 347 +/- 18 and 0.06 +/- 0.02 mM, respectively, after overnight fast but increased (P < 0.05) to 423 +/- 86 and 0.10 +/- 0.04 mM after 20-h fasting, confirming that the subjects were fasting. Insulin-mediated whole body glucose uptake rates increased from 6.3 +/- 0.6 to 7.3 +/- 0.3 mg.kg(-1).min(-1) (P = 0.03), and insulin-induced inhibition of adipose tissue lipolysis was more prominent after than before the intervention (P = 0.05). After the 20-h fasting periods, plasma adiponectin was increased compared with the basal levels before and after the intervention (5,922 +/- 991 vs. 3,860 +/- 784 ng/ml, P = 0.02). This experiment is the first in humans to show that intermittent fasting increases insulin-mediated glucose uptake rates, and the findings are compatible with the thrifty gene concept.

Topacoglu H,
Karcioglu O,
Yuruktumen A,
Kiran S,
Cimrin AH,
Ozucelik DN,
Sarikaya S,
Soysal S,
Turpcu U,
Bozkurt S.
Department of Emergency Medicine, Dokuz Eylul University School of Medicine, 35340 Inciralti, Izmir, Turkey. hakan.topacoglu@deu.edu.tr
Summary The objective of this study was to determine whether Ramadan is changing frequencies and demographics of visits due to certain diseases. Data obtained from the charts of the adult patients admitted into the emergency department (ED) due to 10 predetermined entities between 2000 and 2004 were analysed. Demographic variables analysed separately for certain entities visiting the ED in Ramadan were not found to be different from visits in other times of year. Visit frequencies for hypertension and uncomplicated headache in Ramadan were significantly higher than in non-Ramadan months (chi(2) test, p = 0.015 for hypertension, p < 0.001 for uncomplicated headache). Mean age of the patients admitted to the ED due to diabetes-related conditions in Ramadan was significantly lower than in pre- and post-Ramadan months (59.91 +/- 14.60 and 62.11 +/- 14.61, respectively) (Mann-Whitney U-test, p = 0.032). The patients with diabetes presenting in Ramadan were found significantly younger than their peers in the rest of the year. For other diseases, Ramadan does not appear to be a risk factor.

[AndrewS]

Saudi Med J. 2004 Dec;25(12):1858-63. Links
Metabolic alterations as a result of Ramadan fasting in non-insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus patients in relation to food intake.

OBJECTIVE: Diabetes is known to be associated with alterations in metabolic parameters. The aim of this study is to investigate whether Ramadan fasting can affect these metabolic parameters in non-insulin dependent diabetes mellitus (NIDDM) patients. METHODS: This study was conducted in the outpatient Clinic of Jordan University Hospital, Amman, Jordan in February of 1415 Hijra year (1995 Gregorian). Forty-four NIDDM male patients volunteered for this study. Patients fasted the month of Ramadan and few metabolic parameters were recorded. Body weight, fasting blood sugar (FBS), glycosylated hemoglobin (HbA1c), triglycerides (TG), total cholesterol (TC), low-density lipoprotein-cholesterol (LDL-C) and high density lipoprotein-cholesterol (HDL-C) were measured, before, at mid- and at the end- of Ramadan. Detailed energy intakes were also recorded. RESULTS: Patients mean age were 52+/-9 years (range 35-75). Patients showed a statistically significant reduction in their body weight, FBS, HbA1c, and TG levels by the end of Ramadan (1.57 kg, 31 mg/dl, 0.85%, and 35 mg/dl). Other parameters such as TC, LDL-C, HDL-C were not affected by Ramadan fasting. The total daily energy intake remained unchanged including the qualitative components of nutrients. CONCLUSION: Muslim NIDDM patients showed a trend towards better glycemic control following Ramadan fasting. However, the pre-Ramadan existed dyslipidemia was sustained or even worsened following Ramadan fasting.

The effect of fasting on the parameters of the antioxidant defence system in the blood of vegetarian human subjects.

Gilca M,
Soian I,
Mohora M,
Petec C,
Muscurel C,
Dinu V.
Biochemistry Department, Carol Davila University of Medicine and Pharmacy, Bucharest, Romania. mgilca@univermed-cdgm.ro
OBJECTIVES: Although the evidence is strong that fasting has anti-tumor, anti-inflammatory and anti-ageing actions, the mechanisms responsible for these phenomena are still unclear. An ameliorated antioxidative defence with fasting may be the cause of such effects. The objective of the present work was to determine the influence of fasting on antioxidant systems in healthy young vegetarian humans. DESIGN AND METHODS: We measured Trolox Equivalents Antioxidant Capacity (TEAC) of plasma, erythrocytes superoxide dismutase (SOD) activity, blood glutathione peroxidase (GPx) activity, level of total blood non-proteic thiols (TBNT), plasma ceruloplasmin activity, plasma level of NO metabolites (the sum of nitrites and nitrates, NOx), in 18 healthy young humans (age 20-27 years) after 12h (overnight fasting) and 80h of fasting. RESULTS: Trolox Equivalents Antioxidant Capacity of plasma, the level of total blood nonproteic thiols, plasma ceruloplasmin activity and plasma concentration of nitrites and nitrates were significantly increased after 80h of fasting. Superoxide dismutase activity and glutathione peroxidase activity were lower after 80h of fasting. CONCLUSIONS: Our results suggest that fasting induces the "reorganisation" of antioxidative defence lines: fasting increases especially plasma protective systems (total antioxidant capacity of plasma, plasma ceruloplasmin activity) and decreases an erythrocytes antioxidant enyzme (superoxide dismutase) and blood glutathione peroxidase.
PMID: 15526512 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Effects of one week juice fasting on lipid metabolism: a cohort study in healthy subjects.

Huber R,
Nauck M,
Ludtke R,
Scharnagl H.
Ambulanz fur Naturheilverfahren/Abteilung Innere Medizin II, Universitatsklinik Freiburg. rhuber@med1.ukl.uni-freiburg.de
OBJECTIVE: We investigated the effects of a popular modified juice fasting program on lipid metabolism. VOLUNTEERS AND METHODS: 5 healthy, nonobese, male volunteers fasted for 8 days. Daily energy intake was limited to 150-300 kcal/d solely as carbohydrates (vegetable and fruit drinks). Physical activity was maintained as before. At baseline, on days 2, 3, and 8 during fasting, and on days 2 and 8 after fasting, serum lipids, lipoproteins, and insulin were investigated. RESULTS: Juice fasting resulted in bi-phasic changes: Until day 2 and 3 triacylglycerols (TG), very low-density lipoprotein apolipoprotein B (VLDL apo B), and insulin decreased by 52, 51, and 65% respectively, while nonesterified fatty acids (NEFA), low-density lipoprotein (LDL) apo B, and LDL cholesterol increased by 363, 38, and 35%. Between day 3 and 8 NEFA increased; TG and insulin increased as well, but remained below baseline values, and LDL cholesterol normalized. After 8 days juice fasting significant changes (p < 0.05) compared to the baseline were found only for free cholesterol (-10%), phospholipids (-14%), apo AI (-9%), apo AII (-11%), insulin (-42%), C-peptide (-57%), and NEFA (+535%, p = 0.0001). Total cholesterol decreased by 9% (n.s.) after 8 days. One week after the ending of fasting all parameters returned to normal. CONCLUSION: Contrary to total fasting and fasting with limited physical activity, 8 days juice fasting without limitation of physical activity results in a decrease of free cholesterol and an only initial increase of LDL cholesterol. After 8 days insulin, TG, and VLDL are still lower than at baseline, however, they have increased compared to the initial phase, probably counterregulatory to a further increase of NEFA. Copyright 2003 S. Karger GmbH, Freiburg
PMID: 12624474 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Medically supervised water-only fasting in the treatment of borderline hypertension.

TrueNorth Health Center, Rohnert Park, CA 94928, USA. dracg@att.net
BACKGROUND: Hypertension-related diseases are the leading causes of morbidity and mortality in industrially developed societies. Surprisingly, 68% of all mortality attributed to high blood pressure (BP) occurs with systolic BP between 120 and 140 mm Hg and diastolic BP below 90 mm Hg. Dietary and lifestyle modifications are effective in the treatment of borderline hypertension. One such lifestyle intervention is the use of medically supervised water-only fasting as a safe and effective means of normalizing BP and initiating health-promoting behavioral changes. METHODS: Sixty-eight (68) consecutive patients with borderline hypertension with systolic BP in excess of 119 mm Hg and diastolic BP less than 91 mm Hg were treated in an inpatient setting under medical supervision. The treatment program consisted of a short prefasting period (approximately 1-2 days on average) during which food consumption was limited to fruits and vegetables followed by medically supervised water-only fasting (approximately 13.6 days on average). Fasting was followed by a refeeding period (approximately 6.0 days on average). The refeeding program consisted of a low-fat, low-sodium, plant-based, vegan diet. RESULTS: Approximately 82% of the subjects achieved BP at or below 120/80 mm Hg by the end of the treatment program. The mean BP reduction was 20/7 mm Hg, with the greatest decrease being observed for subjects with the highest baseline BP. A linear regression of BP decrease against baseline BP showed that the estimated BP below which no further decrease would be expected was 96.0/67.0 mm Hg at the end of the fast and 99.2/67.3 mm Hg at the end of refeeding. These levels are in agreement with other estimates of the BP below which stroke events are eliminated, thus suggesting that these levels could be regarded as the "ideal" BP values. CONCLUSION: Medically supervised water-only fasting appears to be a safe and effective means of normalizing BP and may assist in motivating health-promoting diet and lifestyle changes.
PMID: 12470446 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Medically supervised water-only fasting in the treatment of hypertension.

Center for Conservative Therapy, Penngrove, Calif, USA. dracg@att.net
BACKGROUND: Hypertension-related diseases are the leading cause of morbidity and mortality in industrially developed societies. Although antihypertensive drugs are extensively used, dietary and lifestyle modifications also are effective in the treatment of patients with hypertension. One such lifestyle intervention is the use of medically supervised, water-only fasting as a safe and effective means of normalizing blood pressure and initiating health-promoting behavioral changes. METHODS: One hundred seventy-four consecutive hypertensive patients with blood pressure in excess of 140 mm Hg systolic, 90 mm Hg diastolic (140/90 mm Hg), or both were treated in an inpatient setting under medical supervision. The treatment program consisted of a short prefasting period (approximately 2 to 3 days on average) during which food consumption was limited to fruits and vegetables, followed by medically supervised water-only fasting (approximately 10 to 11 days on average) and a refeeding period (approximately 6 to 7 days on average) introducing a low-fat, low-sodium, vegan diet. RESULTS: Almost 90% of the subjects achieved blood pressure less than 140/90 mm Hg by the end of the treatment program. The average reduction in blood pressure was 37/13 mm Hg, with the greatest decrease being observed for subjects with the most severe hypertension. Patients with stage 3 hypertension (those with systolic blood pressure greater than 180 mg Hg, diastolic blood pressure greater than 110 mg Hg, or both) had an average reduction of 60/17 mm Hg at the conclusion of treatment. All of the subjects who were taking antihypertensive medication at entry (6.3% of the total sample) successfully discontinued the use of medication. CONCLUSION: Medically supervised water-only fasting appears to be a safe and effective means of normalizing blood pressure and may assist in motivating health-promoting diet and lifestyle changes.