Martial taiji in London UK?

[CottonQuan]

Hello.
I am currently studying taiji under one of my sifu's "senior students". This senior student has been studying with the sifu for eight years. Well, the other day, I saw the senior student practising his chen style. There was no fajin. It all looked quite effortful and "external". The student has also said things to us like "it takes 10 years to learn how to fight with taiji".
These things make me think maybe the sifu doesn't know s*** about real taiji.
Can anyone recommend a good martial school in London England? Any advice gratefully received.
Peace, U.

[dedalus]

http://www.tai-chi-chuan.demon.co.uk

[dz]

Practical Tai Chi Chuan International (http://www.taichichuan.co.uk)

[HuangKaiVun]

If you can, seek out Nigel Sutton - the author of the GREAT Taiji book "Applied Tai Chi".

[Guandi]

but Nigel Sutton is living in Malaysia

[CottonQuan]

thanks for replies so far. have heard iffy things about dan docherty - anyone with firsthand experience?
how about john ding?

[Repulsive Monkey]

John Ding - Not first hand experience but he is a genuine Yang family lineage holder. He IS a reputable Master, no doubt!! He is the only disciple to of been taught by all 3 of Yang Sau Chung's (Yang Cheng fu's eldest son)Disciples. From what I hear he is a genine man and a traditionalist too.

Dan Docherty - Believes his style comes from a genuine Chang Sang feng lineage bearing (dubious). I know this is going to sound totally slanderous but I've seen him before and I think his his beliefs in the internal energies is minimal. As a Kung-fu fighter I think he is probably very capable. As a practioner of Tai Chi energetics I'm not so sure.

[Repulsive Monkey]

This is of course a little known secret in London. You could always try to get taught by Master John Kells, a very respected Taiji Master in London. He was the first Western disciple of Chi Ching Tao, a senior student and Taiwanese disciple of Prof. Cheng Man ching. Master John Kells also studied along side Grand Master Gin Soon-chu, and studied himself under Yang Sau-chung for a while.

[CottonQuan]

Do you have an email/website address for him?

[Kumkuat]

Daniel Poon is in Nottingham. I don't know where Nottingham is in UK since I don't know the area. Anyway, Daniel spent some time in the Chen Village learning chen taiji from Chen XiaoXing. his web site is at www.chenvillage.com (http://www.chenvillage.com)

[dz]

I'm a student of his. If you want to learn how
to apply Taijiquan as a fighting art, go see him.
If you want to learn energetics and Qi manipulation,
then you'd probably want to see
someone else.

Regards
Wai

[Repulsive Monkey]

sorry but I hope I haven't offended you about what I said about your Sifu. I didn't mean to sound insulting if it did, it's just that that is the experience and information that I have come across to date. I have heard that he is a fighter and that his fighting skills do do him merit and to that of his school. But in an interview or atricle I read about him once, he seemed very cynical about Qi and the energetics of Tai Chi. I remember him dissing Acupuncture becuase of its premise of Qi manipultaion too. However, I hope I don't come over as trying to preach or something here.

[Repulsive Monkey]

Unfortunately to date I do not think he has a website. He formed the British Tai Chi Association years ago, and I think it still goes under this name. Sorry about the lack of info. Told you he was a secret.

[CottonQuan]

Thanks Repulsive anyway, I'll see what I can find out here...

WRT taiji "energetics", it appears that one can be cynical of the existence of qi while also knowing how to issue power in an "internal" way - cf Mike Sigman.

On the other hand there appear to be teachers around who merely wrestle externally with taiji-style applications. Obviously we have to steer clear of them.

Thanks again for replies so far . . .
CQ

[dz]

It's OK, I'm not offended at all. :)

I know that my Sifu has made rather quite
harsh statements in his past. But then again,
he's always been able to walk the walk as
well as talk the talk.

Regards
Wai

[Repulsive Monkey]

From what I here as far as fighting is concerned I have heard along the same lines as that too, and respect his fighting capabilities.

[popsider]

You may find that Dan Docherty does not dismiss internal aspects of Tai Chi as completely as is sometimes said. I suppose it depends on how you are defining internal.

I'd be more wary of those that have not tested their tai chi, and are not willing to test it in open competitions - or those whose background in tai chi is not transparent.

[mer]

There is a school called Skychord in east london where a number of chinese martial styles appear to be practiced - I'm sure there is a website as well.

mer

[Kaitain(UK)]

As a student of a student of John Ding I can tell you that you won't receive much in the way of martial transmission for a long time - he is traditional in his approach to teaching.

i.e. there is no point teaching you martial application of skills you haven't developed properly. There is a lot of pushing hands from an early stage but it is not martially orientated (as far as a beginner can see).

WRT Dan Doherty, I have trained with one of his instructors in Kent but I was not impressed - very few taiji principles were followed or understood. However, talking to people like Wai here leads me to believe that this is more a case of a bad instructor with her own ideas than any particular fault with Dan Doherty. I don't agree with a lot of the ideas and principles in Wudan Taiji (from the DD website) - they are counter to what I have learned in my own style. Doesn't mean they don't work though - they just don't make sense to me.

If you want to be safe then Chen style is the most likely route to follow - it is hard to find but the practitioners tend to be 'real' as a rule rather than an exception. Yang style is the opposite - so many charlatans, so few real masters. Also, Chen style is very martial in its outlook so you are likely to get better training partners. One of my biggest problems is finding other students that want to train hard - that's why I train elsewhere now, the students are far more intense and out to learn. I hate to say it but many of the students at John Dings place are lazy and arrogant - there are 3 or 4 really committed students that I've met, the rest think that John will just teach them regardless of their own efforts.

So my biased advice is to go see John Ding and find the good students - work hard and you'll receive the good stuff :) i.e. don't sit on the sofa every 15 minutes drinking tea and talking.

"If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy?"

[PQS]

try www.zhong-ding.com (http://www.zhong-ding.com) look for the link to sao bao and speak to Tony he seems a really nice guy with a lot of experience Zhong Ding is Nigel Sutton's U.K. school and they teach the martial side and have regular seminars with Nigel and other Masters from Malaysia.

[Repulsive Monkey]

I heard that he studies nowadays under Mae Ling, Daughter of Yang Sau Chung. I understand that Nigel is getting the real Macoy from Mae Ling.