Ugghhh...(2)

[Oso]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/conditions/01/31/herpes.wrestlers.reut/index.html

i've heard about this issue in recent years but I never heard anything like it when I was in HS in the early 80's.

*edit* the worst we were warned about was ringworm

kinda scary

[Li Kao]

Hmm, wait till Lung sees this ... wonder if this is a freak outbreak or something that is becoming more common? First case like this that I have ever heard of as well. Then again, I've never been a wrestler or spent much time on the mat.

[lunghushan]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070207/ap_on_he_me/wrestling_herpes

16 schools and 40 wrestlers.

Nobody ever listens to me about herpes. I wonder if it's because people are squeamish about STDs or something? And this is just from skin and wrestling.

Wait until this hits the BJJ schools. Of course nobody's going to want to deal with the issue for fear of losing business.

You know something like 20-25% of women have genital herpes and something like 15-20% of men.

The weird thing though is they're saying the herpes goes away. It doesn't go away. It just goes dormant, to come out again, at an undetermined time. Once you have herpes you have it for life.

No wonder this thing is spreading with such a stupid policy.

[ShaolinCyborg]

if you spend your life worried about the little things like that you will never enjoy life... or train properly.

I mean if i was worried about things that could happen to me while or from training i would be more worried about things like Subarachnoid hemorrhage , Sudden cardiac arrest, bruised internal organs, spinal injuries, stabbing myself with daggers, staph, strep (flesh eating virus), cracked orbital, dismemberment, concussion, muscle and ligament strains, Mono, influenza, viral meningitis.... i could go on forever... it becomes a slippery slope.

My point is, if you focus on what could go wrong you will miss out on what could go right.

[lunghushan]

if you spend your life worried about the little things like that you will never enjoy life... or train properly.

Yeah, guess people don't like to worry about little things. Little things like debt, staying safe, relationships, the environment, wars in foreign countries ... or pretty much anything, until it bites them in the ass.

Personally I don't think that watching herpes exposure is worrying. It is nothing different than not crossing the road in front of cars, or making sure you're drinking bottled water when you go to Mexico.

[ShaolinCyborg]

all i am saying is it is not a long leap from changing your training habits because some high schoolers got the herps.... to cutting kleenex boxes in half so you can have one for each hand to protect you from all the evil germs.

I mean, it jsut seems silly, are you going to wear full latex bodysuits to train? i think the risks of that are 10x as worrisome as Herpes.

[lunghushan]

all i am saying is it is not a long leap from changing your training habits because some high schoolers got the herps.... to cutting kleenex boxes in half so you can have one for each hand to protect you from all the evil germs.

I mean, it jsut seems silly, are you going to wear full latex bodysuits to train? i think the risks of that are 10x as worrisome as Herpes.

No, all I was considering was wearing gloves when training, some lightweight gloves, and a rash guard, and shoes instead of going barefoot.

Unfortunately nobody's really interested in training with those minimum requirements, and given their inflexible attitudes about this simple thing, I've pretty much decided I don't want to deal with somebody so stupid anyway.

[ShaolinCyborg]

wow... okayyyy...

Do you really think those things would be 100% effective in all situations?

every school i have been to used shoes during sparring. Rash guards are only shirts and goves only cover hands. Do you think a virus would be stopped by the light cotton of kung fu training pants?

And as I said, what about more worrisome viruses... Herpes isn't gonna kill me, meningitis, influenza, and many others could... and those are AIRBOURNE!

[lunghushan]

wow... okayyyy...

Do you really think those things would be 100% effective in all situations?

every school i have been to used shoes during sparring. Rash guards are only shirts and goves only cover hands. Do you think a virus would be stopped by the light cotton of kung fu training pants?

And as I said, what about more worrisome viruses... Herpes isn't gonna kill me, meningitis, influenza, and many others could... and those are AIRBOURNE!

No, it wouldn't be 100%. And those were for hepatitis transmission and HIV, not for herpes necessarily although it would lessen the surfaces.

Do you think 75% is better than 0%? Or do you think that since we can't go 100% that 0% would be better?

[SevenStar]

wow... okayyyy...

Do you really think those things would be 100% effective in all situations?

every school i have been to used shoes during sparring. Rash guards are only shirts and goves only cover hands. Do you think a virus would be stopped by the light cotton of kung fu training pants?

And as I said, what about more worrisome viruses... Herpes isn't gonna kill me, meningitis, influenza, and many others could... and those are AIRBOURNE!

1.bjj does not use shoes.
2.one of the usesof rashguards is prevention of ringworm
3.yes,pants help.

that said, I do agree with you. I think people may worry too much. at our school, we mop the mats after each class , but that's it.

[ShaolinCyborg]

i've never trained BJJ, but i was a pro wrestler.... Try worrying about herpes while your covered in a guys blood.

[Samurai Jack]

Anyone can choose to wear protective gear. Too bad these guys didn't choose to do that.

I used to roll up the sleeves of my gi, now I keep them down. 90% of my body is now covered. It's a good idea to train as safely as you can. It's a bad idea to not train at all.

Abstinence may be the only 100% protection, but it's also 100% not fun.

[lunghushan]

Yeah I agree on the worrying too much.

However, the thing that really is disturbing about this isn't really the disease so much that schools won't do the minimum to protect their students.

The minimum being keeping most of the skin covered, and the mats always clean.

In terms of skin, most schools train barefoot at least and a lot of MMA schools train in shorts -- some even train shirtless. In terms of mats, some schools do clean the mats after every class but most that I've been to do not. Some do not clean them even every day.

Given that schools won't even do the minimum, you just have to wonder how smart they can be and why they won't do the minimum. The fact that most schools won't even do the minimum seems to point to the fact that they're just factories and not really interested in their students well being or considering the students needs.

Which is why I don't train at schools anymore.

It's not really the disease thing, it's the entire factory mentality and "our way or the highway." They really seem to be run by stupid, inconsiderate people. How hard would it be to keep students 90% safe -- yet they don't want to do the minimum to accomplish that.

Given they're so inflexible, they only leave one option, which is the highway.

[MorpheusNSC]

As unlikely as it sounds, yes, even a thin layer of cotton helps because of the way the virus is transmitted....

That said, there are a heck of alot of ways herpes is getting spread around schools, and it's very difficult to medically isolate the point of transmission, so I'm not sure how clearly this outbreak can be linked to practice rather than other behaviors or habits they have in common.

[SevenStar]

Yeah I agree on the worrying too much.

However, the thing that really is disturbing about this isn't really the disease so much that schools won't do the minimum to protect their students.

The minimum being keeping most of the skin covered, and the mats always clean.

In terms of skin, most schools train barefoot at least and a lot of MMA schools train in shorts -- some even train shirtless. In terms of mats, some schools do clean the mats after every class but most that I've been to do not. Some do not clean them even every day.

Given that schools won't even do the minimum, you just have to wonder how smart they can be and why they won't do the minimum. The fact that most schools won't even do the minimum seems to point to the fact that they're just factories and not really interested in their students well being or considering the students needs.

Which is why I don't train at schools anymore.

It's not really the disease thing, it's the entire factory mentality and "our way or the highway." They really seem to be run by stupid, inconsiderate people. How hard would it be to keep students 90% safe -- yet they don't want to do the minimum to accomplish that.

Given they're so inflexible, they only leave one option, which is the highway.

we have a few guys who wear shorts on no gi days, but on average it's gi pants and a rashguard.

[Samurai Jack]

Is it possible to wear a gi on "no gi days"? I realize that a lot of judo dojos do this practice so that students don't become over-reliant on grabbing the gi, but I've often wondered why not just tell the students not to grab the gi? I get smacked pretty hard if I get an instruction from Sensei and I forget to follow it.

Just thinking out loud. But I am curious as to your thoughts Seven...

[bodhitree]

At the Pitt Grappling club we mop the mats before every practice, because other groups who use the mats use their shoes.

[Merryprankster]

I'd just like to remind everybody that Herpes Simplex 1 is what is being talked about here, vice Herpes Simplex 2, which is the far nastier variety. Yes, you can get Herpes Simplex 1 in the genitals. But outbreaks are far more mild and much ****her apart. It also typically requires direct skin contact, meaning that you would have to be rubbing your bits all over somebody else's infected skin - which is why it is typically transmitted during oral sex.

Herpes Simplex 1 is no big deal. It's the one that causes cold sores. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's pleasant, or that we shouldn't try to protect ourselves, but that over-reaction is a bit much too.

Wash the mats with some sort of cleanser, keep shoes that go anywhere but the mats off of them, and make sure anybody with open wounds, rashes, etc doesn't train.

Pretty simple!

[unkokusai]

Wash the mats with some sort of cleanser, keep shoes that go anywhere but the mats off of them, and make sure anybody with open wounds, rashes, etc doesn't train.

Pretty simple!



Yup, that's it. But how long before Lung shows up to do his Howard Hughes impression again?

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

my teacher mops the mats after each class, but i just rub my balls all over them before hand so it doesnt really matter.

[SevenStar]

Is it possible to wear a gi on "no gi days"? I realize that a lot of judo dojos do this practice so that students don't become over-reliant on grabbing the gi, but I've often wondered why not just tell the students not to grab the gi? I get smacked pretty hard if I get an instruction from Sensei and I forget to follow it.

Just thinking out loud. But I am curious as to your thoughts Seven...

you can wear a gi on no gi day if you wish. but when you wear one,it's natural to grab it, and even if you don't, it doesn't feel like a sweaty rashguard, or skin. some techniques, like an arm drag feel very diferent, and as you know, the grips for many of the throws are different. with no gi there is no way to grab out of habit.