cradel blow vid

[Black Jack II]

Nice example of a pre-emptive cradle blow. You can tell the officer is comfortable with using his hands. Notice the slight blading of the perp and aggressive stare...dude had it coming.

It has a couple of nice slow-mo's in the end to see it in full.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1Uy59WK0bU

[lunghushan]

Nice example of a pre-emptive cradle blow. You can tell the officer is comfortable with using his hands. Notice the slight blading of the perp and aggressive stare...dude had it coming.

It has a couple of nice slow-mo's in the end to see it in full.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1Uy59WK0bU

That's one of those things they don't allow in MMA.

I don't know about 'aggressive stare' of the perp ... he wasn't acting like he was going to attack or anything, although he did have his hands in his pockets so that is bad if you're a cop because you don't know what he's got in his hands.

If anything, the perp looked like he was kindof out of it.

[Royal Dragon]

I think it was a nice shot, but I also think he could have covered the perp's arm as he came in though.

In most Shaolin styles, the arm not in use covers the heart. It gets instinctual. The motion for that would have put his left hand in a position to controll the perp's arm, and help keep it in his pocket at the same time he hit his throat.

As it was, he didn't gain controll until after he would have been stabbed.

[lunghushan]

I think it was a nice shot, but I also think he could have covered the perp's arm as he came in though.

...

As it was, he didn't gain controll until after he would have been stabbed.

Well, the cop's been through a lot of incidents so guess he went with his experience.
The guy was obviously drunk or something because he didn't react until he was on the ground.

But if he hadn't have been drunk and had a knife or gun in one of his pockets it could have been a very messy situation. Of course if he pulled a gun before the cop reacted, it could also be a messy situation.

[Black Jack II]

I don't know about 'aggressive stare' of the perp ... he wasn't acting like he was going to attack or anything,

Then I suggest you sharpen up on your awareness skills. There are visual cues of aggression in that setting which are pretty aparent. Clenched jaw,the unblinking "thousand yard" stare, tense shoulders, a rocking posture that started to slightly blade before the cop lanuched the craddle strike, hostile microexpressions when spoken to, ignoring the repeated de-escalation attempts of the cop which only added to the threating demeanor.

I have no doubt that guy may of been intoxicated to some degree. Its Las Vegas so that is without a doubt. But you can tell that guy may of been ready to throw down.


That's one of those things they don't allow in MMA.

What does this have to do with anything?

[lunghushan]

Then I suggest you sharpen up on your awareness skills. There are visual cues of aggression in that setting which are pretty aparent. Clenched jaw,the unblinking "thousand yard" stare, tense shoulders, a rocking posture that started to slightly blade before the cop lanuched the craddle strike, hostile microexpressions when spoken to, ignoring the repeated de-escalation attempts of the cop which only added to the threating demeanor.

I have no doubt that guy may of been intoxicated to some degree. Its Las Vegas so that is without a doubt. But you can tell that guy may of been ready to throw down.

What does this have to do with anything?

Dude, I've been on the street plenty of times ... I've had to deal with this kind of guy plenty of times. It's obvious that he's drunk and stupid.

But I'm not going to launch into somebody like that with his hands in his pockets from the front because you don't know what he has in his pockets. You notice he gets one hand out and onto the cop's arm that's clenching him. If he had a knife in that hand, it would have been a bad situation.

The thing about not doing it in MMA is just that the MMA types are always saying what they do is the best and so great, so I was just pointing out that MMA doesn't allow a throat grab or strike like that. I doubt MMA trains for that or how to counter that.

Bottom line is cop had two choices here. A) Attack B) Back off and draw a gun. Obviously he went with his experience and attacked which turned out to be the correct choice. I don't think I'd do the same thing but he has more experience.

[Black Jack II]

I think it was a nice shot, but I also think he could have covered the perp's arm as he came in though.

It was more of a lunging craddle blow. Not shot up close like some teach it in a class. Kinda like a wwf full on choke slam. Since it was done at more of a medium range distance you only see him tag the right arm after the full impact.

Instead of using a limb immob on the right arm, it looked like he relied on the pre-emptive measure with a lot of forward drive to take that out of the consideration.

[Royal Dragon]

Look close at the vid again, had the perp been armed, he charged right into a knife in the gutt. If he had used his left arm to cover, similar to the way Shaolin guys do, then he could have controlled the perps elbow, keeping the perp's hand in the pocket, or away fomr stabbing him as he went in to the cradle strike.

[lunghushan]

It was more of a lunging craddle blow. Not shot up close like some teach it in a class. Kinda like a wwf full on choke slam. Since it was done at more of a medium range distance you only see him tag the right arm after the full impact.

Instead of using a limb immob on the right arm, it looked like he relied on the pre-emptive measure with a lot of forward drive to take that out of the consideration.

He did have the timing right on, though. He attacked him right when the perp was changing his attention from the camera back to him, before the guy really had time to figure out what he was going to do.

From the way that Sifu Abel was talking it seemed like he would be a guy like this cop ... fast badass attack guy ... unfortunately probably not. :)

[Black Jack II]

Dude, I've been on the street plenty of times ... I've had to deal with this kind of guy plenty of times. It's obvious that he's drunk and stupid.

Sorry, but due to past posts I am not buying it. Not saying your a bad guy just that I don't get this vibe, bro.


I don't know about 'aggressive stare' of the perp ... he wasn't acting like he was going to attack or anything,

Disagree. When a suspect is sitting there ignoring the cops commands with his hands in his pocket and with the aggressive body langauge displayed it is apparent he fits into the threat category.


But I'm not going to launch into somebody like that with his hands in his pockets from the front because you don't know what he has in his pockets

I agree here. I just would of OC'ed his a$$. But since the cop was there only he knows what other visual cues gave him the urge to go to his hands.

Royal,


Look close at the vid again, had the perp been armed, he charged right into a knife in the gutt.

If the knife was pre-deployed or the officer screwed up on the entry that could be a possibility. But I am pointing out that the knife was not pre-deployed and that he used the element of suprise against a intoxicated attacker to make up for the more close quarter use you see in that blow, which includes checking the arm most close to you, actually if you look at it, its more of a throat hold than a y-strike and he does tap the arm on the way down.


If he had used his left arm to cover, similar to the way Shaolin guys do, then he could have controlled the perps elbow, keeping the perp's hand in the pocket, or away fomr stabbing him as he went in to the cradle strike.

I train in fma and silat, so yeah, I understand the blade arts. In kali its sometimes refered to as the crimson line or the golden center. But that is not the point, its not really about what works better, just that this worked using a different element.

[Knifefighter]

That's one of those things they don't allow in MMA.
You can do that in just about any MMA event.

[Knifefighter]

Sweet!

That was a great setup.

The key to that whole takedown was the perfect setup.

The guy wouldn't have been able to deploy a blade. He was too distracted by the setup.

A perfect example of using the OODA loop to one's advantage.

[lunghushan]

You can do that in just about any MMA event.

??? Thought they didn't allow any strikes to the throat or throat grabs. ???

[Royal Dragon]

Black jack
Look at the vid again, his hand comes out of his pocket, and goes right into his gut. If he had been concealing a small open folder (Like my Gerber Gatormate), he would have stabbed the cop on accident even. His stabb went DIRECT for it's mark. The cop did not gain any measure of controll of that arm, untill after that fact.

Actually, the way he was standing, and the way he was posturing I'd bet he DID have the knife, and the cop DID get stabbed. It's just the video stopped before he was able to inspect himself, so we as the viewer did not see it.

[lunghushan]

.

Sorry, but due to past posts I am not buying it. Not saying your a bad guy just that I don't get this vibe, bro.

Whatever. I used to work in Brooklyn and spent plenty of years tromping all over Manhattan and some time in the Bronx. This guy was starting to plot his next move, not getting ready to attack anybody. That's why it was such perfect timing.

[Knifefighter]

Actually, the way he was standing, and the way he was posturing I'd bet he DID have the knife, and the cop DID get stabbed. It's just the video stopped before he was able to inspect himself, so we as the viewer did not see it.

LOL @ that cop getting stabbed.

Because of that great setup. Any blade deployment would have happened on the way to the ground. No force was availiable to cause anything other than the smallest amount of damage. Watch how little force he is able to muster from his arm as he extends it on the way down. Not to mention the fact that all officers wear protective vests.

[lunghushan]

A perfect example of using the OODA loop to one's advantage.

You know, KF, I think you are a total troll ... throat grabs in MMA matches and the OODA loop ...

Bottom line is the cop did take advantage of the timing but OODA didn't have anything to do with it.

I'd be interested in the followup to RD's comments because I didn't notice that before. It didn't look at all like the cop got cut though.

[Knifefighter]

Whatever. I used to work in Brooklyn and spent plenty of years tromping all over Manhattan and some time in the Bronx.
.
LOL @ a freaked out germophobe mixing it up in the Bronx.

[Black Jack II]

The guy wouldn't have been able to deploy a blade. He was too distracted by the setup.

That's what I am trying to say.


A perfect example of using the OODA loop to one's advantage.

Hellz Yeah

Royal,

What you are seeing bro, is the guys empty hand shoot out of his pocket after the cop chokeslams him in the throat. It's just a reaction to the hit.

Really, after a strike like that, you have a lot to deal with to be able to reorient yourself, which kinda shortcircuts a knife deployment, something which the guy did not do as evident by the video. You got the setup which is distracting him, then a sudden explosive bang into the guy, which makes him focus on that hit instead of whipping out a blade, you got him being slammed into the ground, another orientation to overcome before he can react.

Is elbow controlling a weapon bearing limb prime...some say yes...some say no...knife defense is huge mess of theory, depending on what group is talking.;)

[Knifefighter]

You know, KF, I think you are a total troll ... throat grabs in MMA matches and the OODA loop ...

Methinks you are the troll. It's hard to believe someone could actually be that stupid.

How do you think you choke people out in MMA without grabbing their throats.

As far as the OODA loop, it was an excellent display of that. Watch the cops body language right before he enters. Body moving one way, arm moving the other way down and outward; moving in; non-threatening; verbal engagement. He knew exactly what he was doing.

He was already on his way in on the action phase, while the suspect was getting information overload and was still in the observation phase.



BTW, it's hard to tell from the angle of the clip, but the officer probably had wrist control of the suspect's right arm with his left hand, which is what he would have been trained to do.

[lunghushan]

How do you think you choke people out in MMA without grabbing their throats.


??? I've never seen anybody choke somebody out in MMA by grabbing their throat or striking their throat.

They use their arm over the throat and around the neck, but striking the throat or grabbing like that is prohibited.

http://www.ufc.com/index.cfm?fa=LearnUFC.Rules

Throat strikes of any kind, including, without limitation, grabbing the trachea.


http://k-1.azplayers.com/fighter/rules.html

-Direct attacks to the throat with fingers/hands, such as attacking or grabbing the throat.

It looks like you might be able to do it in Pride, though.

http://k-1.azplayers.com/fighter/Pride_rules.html

Methinks you are a big troll. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you're not just an idiot given your extensive fighting background.

[Royal Dragon]

What you are seeing bro, is the guys empty hand shoot out of his pocket after the cop chokeslams him in the throat. It's just a reaction to the hit.

Reply]
Look at exactly the :58 second mark. Hand empty or not, he charged in, and would have imapled himself on a would be knife if the perp had an open blade concealed in his pocket. He didn't get controll of the arm untill after that.

The perp didn't need any sort of thought, or attempt to counter. The forward energy of the cop was more than enough needed. If he had covered with his left like you see comonly in Shaolin techniques, he wold have been able to controll the guys arm and prevent that at the SAME time.

He foolishly left himself open for a knife attack.Even though UNARMED the perp's hand naturally went in for the stabb. The forces of the hit caused that. The only reason that cop did not impale himself on the kinfe, is because he got lucky and there was no knife.

Knives are sharp, you don't need to do much more than press against flesh to push them deep in (Especially if an OCD type like me ownes them)

I don't know if vests protect against knives. maybe to a point, but aren't they more high energy absorbtion devices? Like if a bullet slams into them at a high rate of speed? I thought knives could get through (Correct me if I am wrong)

[Knifefighter]

They use their arm over the throat and around the neck, but striking the throat or grabbing like that is prohibited.

http://www.ufc.com/index.cfm?fa=LearnUFC.Rules

Throat strikes of any kind, including, without limitation, grabbing the trachea.


http://k-1.azplayers.com/fighter/rules.html

-Direct attacks to the throat with fingers/hands, such as attacking or grabbing the throat.

Hmmm... looks like I stand corrected on that one.
D@mmittal, I hate when I am wrong!

God, MMA is getting more sissyfied every day. Pretty soon it is going to be like kung fu.

[Black Jack II]

Look at exactly the :58 second mark. Hand empty or not, he charged in, and would have imapled himself on a would be knife if the perp had an open blade concealed in his pocket

With video its always hard to tell what is what. To me it looks like the perp is using a reflexive response vrs a conditioned response after the officer slams home the y-strike.

At the .58 mark, the guy is on his way down, his reflexive response is to shoot out his hand on the way down to concrete city. Could that have turned out bad for the officer if the guy was able to click open his blade on the way down, of course, but I did not notice any drawing motion of the elbow in that vid.

Though you notice at the .58 mark that you can't really see the angle since we are behind the officer in that shot. Because of the nature of what happened that arm is blasted out in a very erratic angle, could of gone anywhere to the side for all we know, though if it went to the body it looked like the diaphragm, solar plexius or navel. But since we don't know where that angle came in at, this is all theory.

It's better to look at the video from the standpoint, IMO, of a good example of forward pressure, suprise, and followthrough. If it was a actual knife defense video it would be a different discussion.


If he had covered with his left like you see comonly in Shaolin techniques,

You keep mentioning that. Are you just in reference to the standard triangle position. Hand over heart/centerline??

[Royal Dragon]

With video its always hard to tell what is what. To me it looks like the perp is using a reflexive response vrs a conditioned response after the officer slams home the y-strike.

Reply]
Agreed

At the .58 mark, the guy is on his way down, his reflexive response is to shoot out his hand on the way down to concrete city. Could that have turned out bad for the officer if the guy was able to click open his blade on the way down, of course, but I did not notice any drawing motion of the elbow in that vid.

Reply]
I don't think he wold ahev been able to open a folder during that. It would take too much refined skill. But he had just been in a fight with someone, and it is common for someone in that case to conceal an already open folder in thier pocket (I myself have done this when situations occured). When I did it, I was taking a position between the trouble maker and the girls I was with till they got into thier cars. My intent was to hold the ground till they were safe, and I opened my folder and held it open in my jacket pocket to remove the possibility of telegraphing my weapon, or intent by taking it out, and opening it in front of them(I planned to go low under them and cut the Achillies tendon by reaching behind and slicing as one would cut some ones throat, only with the achillies tendon as the target instead.)

>>Though you notice at the .58 mark that you can't really see the angle since we are behind the officer in that shot. Because of the nature of what happened that arm is blasted out in a very erratic angle, could of gone anywhere to the side for all we know, though if it went to the body it looked like the diaphragm, solar plexius or navel. But since we don't know where that angle came in at, this is all theory.

Reply]
That is my point, he could have got stuck anywhere, he was wide open. *THIS* guy was out of it and startled...another might not have been and stuck him good. he had no way of knowing as he went in. He could just as easily have impaled himself as not.

It's better to look at the video from the standpoint, IMO, of a good example of forward pressure, suprise, and followthrough. If it was a actual knife defense video it would be a different discussion.

Reply]
Well, he did have good forward pressure, suprise, and great follow though. I'll also add that he had really good footwork, and maintained his footing. He did not have to follow his opponent down and grappled. He used knee controll on his neck (A favorite of mine), but was in a position to spring to his feet if there had been a suprise second attacker. I think with the exception of how open he was at the entry he did very good, and followed sound principals.


Quote:
If he had covered with his left like you see comonly in Shaolin techniques,

You keep mentioning that. Are you just in reference to the standard triangle position. Hand over heart/centerline??

Reply]
Yes, but the hand over the heart is just the ending position. It's the transitional, slightly circular motion where the hand goes forward, then in towards the center prior to circeling back to be closer to covering the heart that I am actually refering to. It would have been perfect to keep the perps arm in check and controlled AS he entered.

[Black Jack II]

It would have been perfect to keep the perps arm in check and controlled AS he entered.

Yes. That was never a disagreement. If there even was one at all. It's just that he went in long for that craddle blow not extreme close quarter range where the elbow is a bit easier to grab.


Yes, but the hand over the heart is just the ending position. It's the transitional, slightly circular motion where the hand goes forward, then in towards the center prior to circeling back to be closer to covering the heart that I am actually refering to.

Just using different lingo, in kali some call it the bantay-kamay or just simply the live hand. The triangle position is just where you keep the hand during stick or knife practice along the crimson line in a blade orientated forward stance.

[rogue]

Sweet moves and a good call by the cop. We can what if the thing to death but the facts are the cop did everything as close to perfect as you can get.

[SifuAbel]

And the cop was lucky that the guy was just a petulant boy. The noted aggression and tension was fear based. Puting up a tough front more than anything. More puffer fish than barracuda. If he really wanted to throw down, and was even close to being a real threat, the stance would have been much more protected. Not pigeon toed, flat footed. He would have mirrored the walk in with a walk out to maintain distance.

Part of me feels like he wanted an altercation as soon as he spiked the camera.

Maybe a little rascism was going on here too. White skinhead looking kid giving two black cops lip. Not very smart.

[Royal Dragon]

If he was a major threat, he would not have put his hands in his pockets.

[SifuAbel]

I didn't see whether he put his hands in his pockets or if he had them there already.

They were more hanging a few fingers in. Again, a tell tale fear freeze. His hands were not animated. His movement was more like he was bracing himself for the confrontation.

I've seen it so many times before. Stupid young kid for whatever reason, either high or otherwise inclined, meets with a confrontation with subdued speech , bristling demeanor, stern looks, yet frozen. While the actual aggressor, or in this case subduer(the cop), is animated, bridging distance and making the initiation. This guy was going into pure reactionary mode hoping that the initial attack won't come or be weak.

[SifuAbel]

Hmmm... looks like I stand corrected on that one.
D@mmittal, I hate when I am wrong!

God, MMA is getting more sissyfied every day. Pretty soon it is going to be like kung fu.


:rolleyes: http://quietscheentchen.redsplash.de/blog/uploads/wanker.jpg

[Yum Cha]

You guys.....

Number one, its easy to see who has never been hit with vigor.

A shot like that to the neck, right onto his heels, falling back two metres from where he was hit and he's gonna pull a flick knife and use it on the way down? Hell, why not just pull the cruise missle from his a$$ and send it to the Cop Shop? Same chance.

Incidentially, I disagree concerning the perps right arm, it looks like the cop used his left to catch it, and turn it into a control.

If he had an open knife in his pocket, the posture wasn't there to use it, it is very difficult to produce forward momentum when you are being knocked backwards with force. And to my mind, if the cop had been worried, he could have crushed the back of his head on the pavement on the follow through, or curshed the windpipe. Real life isn't slow motion.

One thing I know, and just about any bouncer will agree, grabbing somebody's throat really takes the fight out of them...and if it doesn't if sets them up for whatever you want when they grab at it.

Its a good move, as much my kind of kung fu as it is anything else. I tend to grab, but now I'll conbsider the strike and follow thorugh, its a dangerous attack, but its obviously not that lethal. Am I to assume that the "Cradle" blow is some kind of BJJ or MMA technique as well? Thanks BJ for the clip.

The lesson in not in the execution but in the setup, that's where the expertise is, the engagement, the crossing the danger zone. The confusing movement, the use of the distraction from the camera, etc. Shock and awe as well?

Is the knee to the back of the neck BJJ 101 too? hahaha

As far as armchair quarterbacks go, you guys from Chicago??

[Black Jack II]

Thanks BJ for the clip.

No problem. Glad you saw the value.:)


The lesson in not in the execution but in the setup, that's where the expertise is, the engagement, the crossing the danger zone.

I believe that was my message the whole time. I think the video shows forward drive done in a excellent fashion. To me this was never a knife thing but it became a part of the conversation at some point:confused:


Am I to assume that the "Cradle" blow is some kind of BJJ or MMA technique as well?

Heh.

[Knifefighter]

A shot like that to the neck, right onto his heels, falling back two metres from where he was hit and he's gonna pull a flick knife and use it on the way down? Hell, why not just pull the cruise missle from his a$$ and send it to the Cop Shop? Same chance.
Incidentially, I disagree concerning the perps right arm, it looks like the cop used his left to catch it, and turn it into a control.
If he had an open knife in his pocket, the posture wasn't there to use it, it is very difficult to produce forward momentum when you are being knocked backwards with force. And to my mind, if the cop had been worried, he could have crushed the back of his head on the pavement on the follow through, or curshed the windpipe. Real life isn't slow motion.
One thing I know, and just about any bouncer will agree, grabbing somebody's throat really takes the fight out of them...and if it doesn't if sets them up for whatever you want when they grab at it.
The lesson in not in the execution but in the setup, that's where the expertise is, the engagement, the crossing the danger zone. The confusing movement, the use of the distraction from the camera, etc. Shock and awe as well?
Hey... we finally agree on something.


Am I to assume that the "Cradle" blow is some kind of BJJ or MMA technique as well?
Nope... however, it's a pretty good tech with that setup.


Is the knee to the back of the neck BJJ 101 too?
BJJ 101 in knee ride on solar plexus.

Knee on the head/neck is BJJ 101-S.

[Yum Cha]

One thing I try to impart on my brothers is the importance of the engagement.

To control the engagement is to give yourself a tremendous advantage. Control the engagement and make a quick finish, and your odds of getting hurt are significantly diminished.

Unfortunately, you can't always control the engagement, something not to be misunderstood.

How many times you reckon that copper has played that game. To me its a lot more relevent than hours of Pride, UFC, or any tournament anywhere.

BJ,
The knife occured to me as well. I have seen lots of guys play the "mysterious hidden hand" technique before to good effect, from High School to Kings Cross nightlife. It certainly raises the stakes. What surprised me was that the cop was grabbing at his cuffs behind his back, not his weapon, or even his baton. I take that to mean he wasn't all that concerned. I reckon he was playing for the camera a bit himself.

What gets me is how mumifyingly stupid the perp was not to take his hands out of his pockets.

Knife,
We agree on a lot, but we just get there via a different route.

[lunghushan]

He was caught flat footed ... anyways I agree on one thing which is this armchair quarterbacking is pretty lame. And the reason he didn't take his hands out of his pocket is pretty obvious ... he was totally out of it.

[JetLi'sFearless]

how did he do that? Ir eally want to learn that technique. Was it a strike at the throat or a push/shove? and if it was a strike did he hit him with the bony part of the index finger on the edge of it or just with the whole hand at once?

[LeeCasebolt]

how did he do that? Ir eally want to learn that technique. Was it a strike at the throat or a push/shove? and if it was a strike did he hit him with the bony part of the index finger on the edge of it or just with the whole hand at once?

It's a controlled grab/push. That cop would have to be a complete idiot (granted, not outside the realm of possibility) to throat-strike someone while on camera.

[Yum Cha]

This is one of those things a lot of people often call, "too deadly for the ring" that can or cannot live up to the hype.

Spread the contact across your whole hand and the opponent's neck and you get a shocking but non-lethal strike. Focus the power into the inside knife hand and it can potentially kill.

I don't know, but it looked like the copper kinda stuck upwards into the bottom of the jaw, lifting the head?

er, ah...it certainly falls into the "don't try this at home kids" category.

[lunghushan]

This is one of those things a lot of people often call, "too deadly for the ring" that can or cannot live up to the hype.


This technique is stupid and doesn't exist. Nothing except UFC/Pride style MMA techniques work or are any good.

Since nothing that isn't in the ring works or is any good then mentioning anything else is just TROLLING and RETARDED.

Isn't that right?

And the sprawl is the only tackling defense and quite obviously the best, the best of the best ... nothing but the sprawl could possibly work for the shoot and it of course always works, and everybody who watches UFC must know everything about fighting, right? Because UFC is the best and most modern fighting and nothing else comes close.

:rolleyes:

[Yum Cha]

LOL @ Lung,


You gotta give it to the dude, he's feisty....even when he's dripping with irony.

Here is a puzzle for you, if you grab a guys hair and bang his head against a wall, is that grappling? Is it Kung Fu?

OK, if you grab a guy by the throat and push him up against a wall and sink the knee into the wedding tackle, is that grappling? Is it Kung Fu?

What about a head butt?

To my own mind, and teaching, everything is Kung Fu. Its not how you skin the cat, its the skinning.

[lunghushan]

LOL @ Lung,


You gotta give it to the dude, he's feisty....even when he's dripping with irony.

Here is a puzzle for you, if you grab a guys hair and bang his head against a wall, is that grappling? Is it Kung Fu?

OK, if you grab a guy by the throat and push him up against a wall and sink the knee into the wedding tackle, is that grappling? Is it Kung Fu?

What about a head butt?

To my own mind, and teaching, everything is Kung Fu. Its not how you skin the cat, its the skinning.

Grabbing hair isn't allowed in MMA and most of them shave their heads anyway, so that doesn't exist. Also no groin strikes, so of course you don't have to worry about that.

Seriously, though, I'm not going to partake anymore seriously in any discussion of technique on here because I'm tired of being ridiculed by MMA type fighters who think the UFC is the end all be all and BJJ is better than anything else.

If it don't exist in the ring, it don't exist, right? And of course professional wrestling must be real fighting as well ... the Undertaker is my new hero. :)

[David Jamieson]

that was a good takedown and with just cause.

good technique.

[SevenStar]

I don't know if vests protect against knives. maybe to a point, but aren't they more high energy absorbtion devices? Like if a bullet slams into them at a high rate of speed? I thought knives could get through (Correct me if I am wrong)

vests come in three varieties: cut resistant, bulletproof and both. there are also cut resistant service gloves. I own cut resistant gloves and was at one time gonna buy a cut resistant vest

[Yum Cha]

Hi 7
Just as an aside....

I did some work in industrial safety awhile back, and there were lots of products for meat cutters, glass handlers, sheet metal workers, etc that had cut resistant gloves, aprons, etc.

Thing is, with some of these "industrial" safety products, they only resisted knife cuts across the grain, not with the grain, or stabbing actions. These were primarially cloth kevlar reinforced.

The meat-cutters have a metal mesh glove, like oyster shuckers, which is lightweight, and could fit beneath regular gloves. Likewise, they have cool chain-mail like protective aprons that are light enough to fit beneath other clothing, and can be modified to fit different lengths, etc.

Than of course, perhaps you could find one of those mithril vests like Bilbo gave frodo....

[lunghushan]

Hi 7
Just as an aside....

I did some work in industrial safety awhile back, and there were lots of products for meat cutters, glass handlers, sheet metal workers, etc that had cut resistant gloves, aprons, etc.

Thing is, with some of these "industrial" safety products, they only resisted knife cuts across the grain, not with the grain, or stabbing actions. These were primarially cloth kevlar reinforced.


Yeah I was doing some research on vests and cut-proof shirts a little while back. They're not that great. They provide some protection, vests are better with bullets.

And vests offer no protection for certain areas where you'd rather not get cut.

[SevenStar]

no protection some areas I would rather not be shot in, either. nothing is 100%, but some protection is better than none