CLF Article on Continuous Fist

[yutyeesam]

Check out the article on Hon Jerng's Continuous Fist Form in the latest issue of KFM. I actually learned this form once upon a time, and really love it and still practice it to this day. I'm curious to know about other branches of CLF that has a Lin Wan Kuen.

I don't think the Lee Koon Hung Branch has one, but I thought I remembered reading that there were other branches that have it.

If not many CLF branches have it, maybe we can convince the Ng Family to make an instructional video on this form. It is definitely a CLF form worth having, regardless of your particular lineage.

Nice job, Shaolin Dynasty!!

-123

[Shaolindynasty]

Thanks! If anybody has questions on the article feel free to ask.

:cool:

[TenTigers]

I know Buk Sing has Lien Wan Charp Choy, but I don't really know how it is played. Is it like yum/yeurng charp choy?

[chasincharpchui]

I know Buk Sing has Lien Wan Charp Choy, but I don't really know how it is played. Is it like yum/yeurng charp choy?

no

and wat do u mean by how it is played?

the thread is bout lin wan kuen, a fist form

buk sing lin wan charp chui should have its own thread if it is to be discussed

[Lama Pai Sifu]

We do a Lien Waan Kuyhn also.

Peace

[Shaolindynasty]

The particular set that was the topic of the article I wrote (Hon Jerng Lin Wan Kuen) is unique to our branch. It was created by To Hon Jerng a 4th generation practitioner. The Lin wan concept can be found throughout the different schools of choy lay fut and is important to the application of the system. In the article I focused on the concepts contained within the set as opposed to the physical movements. That way all the different schools of choy lay fut (as well as other CMA) could relate.

In the end the form is only a container for the concepts. The contents are whats most important.

[hskwarrior]

Yeah i agree that the Lin Wan is a common concept within our gung fu. I also teach a set called Dai Sup Gee Lin Wan Kuen.


and as long as the root to the techniques could be placed with Choy Lee Fut then regardless if traditional or modern, it would still be considered Choy Lee Fut.

[CLFNole]

Frank:

Doesn't Fut San have a lien wan kuen?

[Satori Science]

In my Bak Hsing lineage we practice a form called Leen Wan Jeen Kuen, which my Sifu learned from Grand Master Tam Fei Pang. It was Tam SiTi Gung's pattern that he set up himself to teach his fighting style. My Sigung also taught this pattern and Grand Master Lung Jee taught Sifu another version of the same leen wan jeen kuen.

In our family we focus on it prior to black belt as one of the two key fighting patterns. Our's empahises what we call the fighting horse, running horse and in our pattern, leen whan chop choi, along with several other chop choi applications.

[Shaolindynasty]

I'm kind of surprised that no one mentioned the comparisons I made about CLF and MMA. That was supposed to be the "controversial" part.

[Steeeve]

Satori

From what I know Bak sing CLF have only 3 forms ....and some incorporate bak sil lum forms to the CV ....with the exchange of GM Tam sam with Ku yu Cheung of northern sil lum ....

But originally three forms sup ji kuen ,kau da amd ping kuen plus one staff forms and a pa kua cheug forms by tam sam nothing to do with the pakua chang internal style ....

Im right or wrong ????

Steeve

[chasincharpchui]

Satori

From what I know Bak sing CLF have only 3 forms ....and some incorporate bak sil lum forms to the CV ....with the exchange of GM Tam sam with Ku yu Cheung of northern sil lum ....

But originally three forms sup ji kuen ,kau da amd ping kuen plus one staff forms and a pa kua cheug forms by tam sam nothing to do with the pakua chang internal style ....

Im right or wrong ????

Steeve

yes buk sing has 3 core forms, but tam fei pang lineage also has jin kuen. my sifu knows jin kuen off tam fei pang, but it was neva part of our lineage. my lineage has jow gar coz of kong on

[Satori Science]

It is different from lineage to lineage, exactly like chasincharpchu said. Becuase there were only the three original forms, sup jee, kow da and ping kuen, each lineage has added forms in its second,third and fourth gen. which become traditional aftewards.

In our lineage coming from Tam Fei Pang and Lung Jee we have three forms which are taught before you ever learn the orignal forms. Gay Bune Kuen or foundation form Sup Jee jeen Kune and Leen Whan Jeen Kuen. These days you don't even start learning sup jee till you have a black belt and have built up your horse. Sifu says the Lung Jee also used to teach a form called Che Kuen before foundation form which was mainly long holds of triangle horse.

Do the other Bak Hsing people out ther use triangle stance?

Agian the northern influence varies from school to school. My Sifu went back to Hong Kong on the early 70's and lived with Tam Fei Pang who corrected his CLF and his Sui Lum 6 which was the only northern form Tam Fei Pang or my Sigung taught.

However, while in HK Sifu became a student of grandmaster Chan Woo Lueng and learned the northern style as well. Today most of our weapons are a mixture of southern fighting movements and flashy northern kicks and jumps. We also do Sui Lum 5,6,8,spear (hand form not weapon) and Lohan.

But it is differnt in every school, some train just on fighting and don't even really do forms others like mine emphasise heavliy on both aspects.

[chasincharpchui]

hmmm wasnt this thread bout lin wan kuen? haha

[Steeeve]

Chansin

Does u do some jow gar form....like siu fook fu or da fookfu ...from what u said u came from one of the sifu Lacey (Vince or Dave)

Rock on

Steeve

[Steeeve]

Interesting post Satori

Do U know a guy here in Ottawa Canada teached Buk sing CLF ....now he go back to china 2 years ago ....the cv was the 3 main forms plus some northern sil lum forms and weapons ......

[Satori Science]

I realized i made a mistake when I said Grand Master Lung Jee taught Leen Whan Jeen Kuen. Sifu and I were talking it over today, he said Lung Jee taught his own Jeen Kuen pattern like Tam Fei Pang's but still fairly different. But he never taught leen whan jeen kuen, just to be accurate.

Steeeeve;

Off hand no I don't know that person from Ottawa. Sifu has told me that there are senior students from another part of our lineage in eastern canada but my Sifu doesn't know them personally.

My Sihing, who has been under Sifu for 28 years lives in Niagra Falls. I know there was a Bak Hsing Kwoon in Scarboro that is closed to the public. Master Lorne Bernard is a fukiense white crane teacher in Montreal, he does Bak Hsing too. But not Ottawa. There is also a 5th Gen. Master teaching in Toronto openly right now but I don't know him either.

[Ben Gash]

In my Bak Hsing lineage we practice a form called Leen Wan Jeen Kuen, which my Sifu learned from Grand Master Tam Fei Pang. It was Tam SiTi Gung's pattern that he set up himself to teach his fighting style. My Sigung also taught this pattern and Grand Master Lung Jee taught Sifu another version of the same leen wan jeen kuen.

In our family we focus on it prior to black belt as one of the two key fighting patterns. Our's empahises what we call the fighting horse, running horse and in our pattern, leen whan chop choi, along with several other chop choi applications.

I love Lien Wan Jin Kuen, it's such a completely kickass form. I also really love Gay Boon Kuen.

[chasincharpchui]

not sure where in canada

but great grandmaster lun chee has a student that teaches in canada, but they call the style buk sing fut gar instead of clf

correct me if im wrong anyone

[Satori Science]

The student is my Sigung, Grand Master Lueng Lap Yow, or Raymond Lueng (who is long since retired from teaching but is still in vancnouer). He was a disicple of Tam Fei Pang and Lung Jee and settled in Vancouver ware he my Sifu and my Sisook Barry ran the Bak Hsing Fut Gar school. The name got changed due to politics and conflicts in Vancouver, some of which was due to Sigung teaching Sisook Barry who was Canadian ie. not Chinese. There is a story about two senior students from a rival kwoon jumping sigung over the issue and him swiftly dealing with them.

My Sifu changed the name to Bak Hsing Kwoon in the early 80's at the request of Lung Jee. But we use Bak Hsing Fut Gar still, especially to describe Sifu's unique interpretation of the northern style.

There are a suprising number of high level, Bak Hsing people in Canada most especially Grand Master Lung Jee in Calgary. But many others as well.

[SevenStar]

"In contrast to methods like judo or aikido (where the objective is to subdue your opponent without harm), the lin wan kuen method calls for maximum aggression..."


people always tend to make this assumption about judo because it is called the "gentle way" - this is a misnomer. Judo is VERY aggressive, attacking combinations, grip fighting, feinting, etc. and has one of the highest rates of injury due to this. The primary principle is maximum efficiency, or "maximum result with minimum effort" but one look at ANY judo shiai will show that judo is far from gentle.

[Shaolindynasty]

people always tend to make this assumption about judo because it is called the "gentle way" - this is a misnomer. Judo is VERY aggressive, attacking combinations, grip fighting, feinting, etc. and has one of the highest rates of injury due to this. The primary principle is maximum efficiency, or "maximum result with minimum effort" but one look at ANY judo shiai will show that judo is far from gentle.

When kano created judo he changed the technique to be less dangerous to the competitors. Although I'm positive a judo practitoner could really hurt someone that isn't the overall philosophy of the system. The idea is to defeat the opponent with relatively little injury in competition. This is in contrast to Hon Jerng Lin Wan Kuen where the idea is to inflict as much damage as possible (even to the point of being excessive). I think To Hon Jerng focused on this due to his experience during WW2.

No offense is meant to either judo or akido practitoners. I'm not saying either of the systems are inferior. I was only pointing out the diferences in th overall philosophy of the systems.

[SevenStar]

I don't take it in an offensive way at all. just discussion. this is, IMO, one of those instances where application overshadows philosophy, because the pholosophy merely represents the ideal. Kano took out the more "dangerous" techniques so that his students could spar. In those days, sparring was uncommon in the traditional jujutsu. the techniques he left in the system theoretically are safe to practice at high speed randori. However, I've seen many non trained people's head slammed into the ground after a throw. I've seen trained guys with collar bones broken, ribs broken, ligaments torn... so even though the ideal is safety, it's actually far from that.

I guess it can also be considered gentle from a pugilism standpoint, as the focus is not on strikes, so your entry on your opponent will not rely on attacking with strikes and softening him up, as muay thai would, for example. In that respect, I can see it as gentle.

[TenTigers]

that being said, if ya wanna see what to me is the best grappling out there, check this out. Full body throw,right into submission, no fights lasting more than eight seconds. To me, this totally blows the doors off BJJ.http://youtube.com/watch?v=4u41omoNO4U

[SevenStar]

Nice clip. I wouldn't say it blows the doors off of bjj though. Remember, they edited that clip together. In general, there are more standups than submissions, IME. Judo is supposed to be fast paced. If you are standing and go more than 10 seconds without attacking, you will be penalized for stalling. If you are on the ground, you generally have between 10 and 20 seconds to secure a pin or submission. If the judge senses no progress is being made, he will stand you back up. Consequently, the ground portion isn't drawn out like it is in bjj. Judo fans want to see stand up - they want to see the "big ippon" - big throws that send the opponent onto his back. Consequently, time to grapple is limited.

On a side note, those fights are more than 8 seconds. As I mentioned, they were edited. Judo matches are 5 mins long. They edited out everything before the submission.

[TenTigers]

you are correct about the editing. There was a different clip I had seen that went from standup to full body throw to submissions-of course these were the best of the best as far as bout go, but breathtaking, nonetheless.