Stick fighting in China

[Knifefighter]

Some clips of some up and coming stick fighters in China:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xuh3QoR9Jsw&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znj10mlgFyc&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTRgLptTuwk&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTRgLptTuwk&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKuynjYUeTc&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-0rFOX9bI4&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aghbUIZO48o&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGsmYGnl_kI&mode=related&search=

Just beginners, but they will get better.

[lunghushan]

Some clips of some up and coming stick fighters in China:

Just beginners, but they will get better.

What kind of sticks are they using? Doesn't seem like usual dog brothers hard sticks.

[Knifefighter]

What kind of sticks are they using? Doesn't seem like usual dog brothers hard sticks.

Soft sticks... padded and wrapped with duct tape. A good way for beginners to learn to spar without getting overwhelmed by the pain from getting hit with hard sticks.

[Black Jack II]

That's sweet.

Are they introducing the BJJ ground elements into the testing over there or just working in the kali at first?

[lunghushan]

Soft sticks... padded and wrapped with duct tape. A good way for beginners to learn to spar without getting overwhelmed by the pain from getting hit with hard sticks.

Yeah, I dunno. I haven't watched any Dog Bros stuff in a while but these guys have no skill whatsoever. It looks more like they're doing western style saber fighting than stick fighting.

It does look like they're having a lot of fun, though.

[Oso]

lol, there's only so many ways to swing a stick...

[lunghushan]

lol, there's only so many ways to swing a stick...

Yeah but look at kali -- stick fighting is hitting, trapping, pummelling, and the footwork's not jumping around like they're doing -- their footwork and what they're doing looks a lot more like saber fighting with all the forward and backward and stuff.

Not saying they probably aren't having a lot of fun but it don't look like stick fighting. But what do I know ... since the sprawl is obviously the best tackling defense since sliced bred. :rolleyes:

You know, I caught that flick Idiocracy the other day, and I have to say that it's not like that's happening in the future. That's pretty much the state of things right now.

[Oso]

all i'm saying is that just like any other martial 'art' that uses pre-arranged drills for learning; the drills will fall away as soon as real contact is tried...in a proportional gradiant to the time trained in said 'art'.

and, besides, even though there are lots of fancy twirling drills with exotic names to them...basic arnis/kali/escrima also has

swing it left to right

swing it up and down

swing it from 1:30 to 7:30

swing it from 7:30 to 1:30

swing it from 10:30 to 4:30

swing it from 4:30 to 10:30

and blocking all of those with reciprocal movements

your basic 8 direction cutting/hitting found in most sword arts

[lunghushan]

all i'm saying is that just like any other martial 'art' that uses pre-arranged drills for learning; the drills will fall away as soon as real contact is tried...in a proportional gradiant to the time trained in said 'art'.

and, besides, even though there are lots of fancy twirling drills with exotic names to them...basic arnis/kali/escrima also has


I guess it boils down to a conversation I had with somebody recently. He said he was watching a show on authentic western sword fighting from sword fighting manuals, and said, "Wow, they used to actually hit with the hilt of the sword."

I said, "Well where do you think they got the term pummelling?" And he looked at me with a blank stare, and then said something to the regards of "Pummelling means hitting with fists."

?????? ???????? ??????????? ?????????????? ???????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????

And what is the non-blade end of the the sword called??? It's like people have forgotten how they used to fight or something. And then they 'rediscover' it in MMA. :rolleyes:

Like these guys are sparring. It's obvious they don't have anything down yet. They don't have any real idea how to work with a stick. They're just getting used to the idea of hitting stick on stick, and a little bit of footwork, and then they're sparring.

But it does look like they're having a lot of fun. Next they can start the Chinese stickfighting league and start saying that only their stuff works and it's the pinnacle of stickfighting. LOL

[Oso]

how exactly does this conversation about stick fighting boil down to what you just said?

[lunghushan]

how exactly does this conversation about stick fighting boil down to what you just said?

Like I said, now they can start a stickfighting league and think they know everything about stick fighting after attending a Dog Brothers seminar.

Hell, it works for MMA. They attend a couple of years of martial arts from sucky teachers, decide it doesn't work so they go to boxing and some submission grappling and decide that's 'real' fighting and everything else sucks.

So the stick fighters can start their own stick fighting league.

[Oso]

Like I said, now they can start a stickfighting league and think they know everything about stick fighting after attending a Dog Brothers seminar.

where are they claiming they do?

and, if I'm not mistaken (and, I may be) Crafty Dog and others are all traditionally trained in filipine stick/blade fighting.

so, why wouldn't a DB seminar be a good place to start learning FMA?

Hell, it works for MMA. They attend a couple of years of martial arts from sucky teachers, decide it doesn't work so they go to boxing and some submission grappling and decide that's 'real' fighting and everything else sucks.

and, generally, within the same amount of time at said boxing/submisson schools, they ARE better fighters.

So the stick fighters can start their own stick fighting league.

okaaayy...so, they learn some basics from a seminar...what better way to get better at those basics then trying to actually trade real blows with them?

[lunghushan]

okaaayy...so, they learn some basics from a seminar...what better way to get better at those basics then trying to actually trade real blows with them?

Wait until the're better. Sparring before you're ready just enforces bad habits. That's why most everybody just spars with basic punching and kicking because they can't use anything else.

[Oso]

Wait until the're better. Sparring before you're ready just enforces bad habits. That's why most everybody just spars with basic punching and kicking because they can't use anything else.

that would not only be the opposite of correct...it would be wrong.

you suggest that the beginning material is wrong...that they need to wait till they learn whatever you think 'anthing else' is before they can spar.

i start my students out learning to throw straight, hook and uppercut punches; front, round and side kicks and 1 basic throw...and appropriate defenses against them...as soon as they can reasonably drill those with a partner and on pads, if they want to spar, they can...with that material...as they learn and drill more stuff, they can add to their toolbox...meanwhile, they keep sparring...and screwing up while sparring...and learning the basics of timing, distancing etc.

no one will ever learn to apply the so called 'advanced' techniques of anything if they don't immediately start trying to apply the basics.

[lunghushan]

that would not only be the opposite of correct...it would be wrong.

you suggest that the beginning material is wrong...that they need to wait till they learn whatever you think 'anthing else' is before they can spar.

i start my students out learning to throw straight, hook and uppercut punches; front, round and side kicks and 1 basic throw...and appropriate defenses against them...as soon as they can reasonably drill those with a partner and on pads, if they want to spar, they can...with that material...as they learn and drill more stuff, they can add to their toolbox...meanwhile, they keep sparring...and screwing up while sparring...and learning the basics of timing, distancing etc.

Okay, so when your so-called 'advanced' students spar, what do they use, then? I mean, I seldom come across and almost never in MMA matches any techniques other than basic punching and kicking in standup. Once in a while you'll see a backfist or something, but that's about it.

[Oso]

wow, you're totally awesome at pulling what you want to hear from a post.

i don't have any 'advanced' students really, my most senior adult student has just been with me two years.

and I didn't say that I did or that they utilized anything different from newbies...hopefully, they use the same stuff, just slightly better.

i tell my students in the beginning that all the tools they need to become as good a fighter as they have the heart to be are available to them in the first few months. they just have to want to endure the conditioning needed to be a good fighter and be willing to get hit hard by someone within 10-15 pounds of their own weight.

the rest is icing on the cake and if they can add one 'extra' thing to their toolbox every couple of months, then they are doing well.

[lunghushan]

wow, you're totally awesome at pulling what you want to hear from a post.

i don't have any 'advanced' students really, my most senior adult student has just been with me two years.

and I didn't say that I did or that they utilized anything different from newbies...hopefully, they use the same stuff, just slightly better.


Or in other words, most all of your students will just do basic punching and kicking. Of course, that doesn't prove the argument, because it will be a rare student who goes beyond 2 years with you anyway.

[Oso]

lol...ok...:)

but, yea, I agree, it will be the rare student who does more than two years with me...

[Oso]

wu su/wu shou is about fighting. the origins of all things martial are rooted in the need to survive the next attack from the guys in the next valley who want your pigs. (been watching that Travel Channel thing about the dudes who lived with the Kombai tribe in Papua ;) )

the sad truth of CMA (and most other post 19th century affectations of older martial training) is that there has been too much government influence, too much ego and too much showmanship without a real need to use what you train 'fo realz' (ok, it's getting late here on the east coast and i've been going since before 8...and I'm getting silly).

imho, mma is getting back to the roots and if CMA is going to survive as anything other than a type of pop-voodoo thing, we need to get back to our roots as well and eschew the panopoly of stage decoration that has embalmed what we do in a false sense of reality.

train and fight with the basics or you won't learn how to fight. over time, you can add a trick or two from the 'advanced' material and like Cung Le, pop a surprise scissors take down every once in a while (although, for the life of me, i don't see how people fall for it.)

done here, it's almost 12 and I have to be up in 7 hours.

[lunghushan]

train and fight with the basics or you won't learn how to fight. over time, you can add a trick or two from the 'advanced' material and like Cung Le, pop a surprise scissors take down every once in a while (although, for the life of me, i don't see how people fall for it.)

done here, it's almost 12 and I have to be up in 7 hours.

See, guess I wouldn't consider punching and kicking the basics in a style like Northern Mantis. I mean why bother doing the form if you're not going to use any of the techniques in it?

Anyhoo ... whatever. Forgeddabouddit ... I think the mistake I keep making by posting on here is thinking that a) anybody's going to take it seriously b) anybody's going to consider it and and c) anybody's going to care about it.

[Oso]

See, guess I wouldn't consider punching and kicking the basics in a style like Northern Mantis. I mean why bother doing the form if you're not going to use any of the techniques in it?

well, i'd have to say you don't know too much about NPM. you can PM 'K.Brazier' if you like and ask him about the basics of northern mantis.

and FTR, the first throw I teach is found in our forms...as is the second.

but, **** those Japs...it's also in judo...


Anyhoo ... whatever. Forgeddabouddit ... I think the mistake I keep making by posting on here is thinking that a) anybody's going to take it seriously b) anybody's going to consider it and and c) anybody's going to care about it.

so, why did you delete 2 posts?

and, it's not necessarily what you say...but how you say it.

cheers.


BTW, i feel I need to dedicate my posts tonight to Ap. don't ask me why, he just popped in to my head while typing...and actually, so did Eric Ishii...

[omarthefish]

... I think the mistake I keep making by posting on here is thinking that a) anybody's going to take it seriously b) anybody's going to consider it and and c) anybody's going to care about it.

Ya think.....? :rolleyes:

[unkokusai]

Anyhoo ... whatever. Forgeddabouddit ... I think the mistake I keep making by posting on here .



You keep saying stuff like this but you don't go the f away.

[lunghushan]

You keep saying stuff like this but you don't go the f away.

Yah, I must be stupid.

[lunghushan]

Ya think.....? :rolleyes:

Somebody as funny looking as you shouldn't have such a high opinion of himself.

[CFT]

See, guess I wouldn't consider punching and kicking the basics in a style like Northern Mantis. I mean why bother doing the form if you're not going to use any of the techniques in it?During an encounter between roughly equal skilled people then only the basics will come out. It is only when you have superiority on one side that you get more elaborate techniques coming out.