Lien Wan Charp Choy!!!

[TenTigers]

well, since Chasing Charp Choy said this should be a separate thread,here it is.
What is the lien wan charp choy? How is it different than yum/yeurng charp choy?

[chasincharpchui]

well firstly

describe to me wat you think yum yeung charp is

to avoid confusion

[TenTigers]

from the little I know, yum yeurng charp choy is used whith an aggressive advance with continuous, over,under (thumb side down, thumb side up-yum/yeurng) high and low, off the lead hand, with the rear used to parry,trap, strike as need be.
In Hung Kuen, we have a few different lien wan kuen-"chain punches" as many Wing Chun schools practice, with various strikes, (fists,palms,biu jee,charp choy,etc) as well as lien wan jow sao-continuous running hand, which is jik kuen,sow choy,pow chooy,yum charp-starts as a two man drill, and eventually the drill is disgarded and the strikes are more random. This is simply to teach the running hand, and leaking hand skills.

[CLFNole]

I think sometimes the over/under yum/yeung you are describing can also be referred to as tau/lau chop. Where you can strike with say a yeung chop (somewhat as a fake) to the body and when blocked you borrow the opponents force and redirect into a yum chop over the top. The opposite can be done as well.

[Shaolindynasty]

Not sure why this had to be a new thread. It seems pretty on topic.:confused:

[TenTigers]

I just picked up the magazine and read the article-and it seems to say similar stuff. The reason this is a separate thread was at the suggestion of Chasing charpchui. This way, we can discuss more details on techniques how they differ, or how they are similar. Get a loittle more in depth. Just as CLFNole says, many similar techniques use different names depending on the particular school.

[chasincharpchui]

well tentigers tau lau charp or yum yeung charp is basically wat u described it as, using the lead hand, obviously theres more to it, footwork, waist movement etc.
i dont agree with using the first charp as a fake tho. i guess this is where it differs us from other clf lineages

the reason why this should b a seperate topic than lin wan kuen is becoz tentigers was asking bout buk sing lin wan charp chui from buk sing lineage, and it is different,
theres more to it than holding ur fists as charp chuis and punching left right. ive seen many ppl do lin wan charp chui, and they think they know it, even after doin it for a many years, but they dont. even im still tryin to learn tam sarm's lin wan charp chui

and no i cannot explain wats different or how to do it online, coz if it were that easy then anyone can do online courses in clf and become masters.

[hskwarrior]

I think the Buk Sing clip with Master Kong Hing demonstrating techniques shows the lin Wan Chop Choy.

I may be mistaken, and if I am I apologize ahead of time.


peace

[k-no]

First of all..

Chasincharpchui is correct. Ten Tigers is describing Tau Lau Charp.

And Frank,

No, that was not what Sigung (Kong Hing) was doing.

I would have to concur that the Lien Wan Charp Chui, while executed quickly, cannot be explained with mere words. Even watching it and trying to apply it by imitation would not get you anywhere. I'm not trying to make it mystical; it's just like any complicated technique and it takes PRACTICE. One could do something that "looks" like it but done improperly may be executed slowly or with lack of power causing you to severely get your ass kicked lol.

[TenTigers]

in this instance, what do the words tau and lau mean?

[CLFNole]

It translates something like "stealing punch" - hence the tau (steal).

Chasin:

I didn't mean it has to be a fake persay it would be better to strike but what I was getting at was if blocked you borrow the power and redirect from yueng to yum or vice versa.

[Satori Science]

All I can say is that the way a Bak Hsing person, who is being corrected by a masterof the style or is themself a high level fighter will release Chop Choi is simply differnt than any other style of choy lay fut, hung kuen or southern gung fu generally.

Tam Sam empahaised almost entirely on that one punch. In the end he trained and used three punches, gwa, sow and chop and really used mainly that chop motion.

The way we execute any chop choi is unique to our system like the Ng family lineage and any other has its own unique character.

But like I said, our chop choi is used different, released different, trianined different and understood different in Bak Hsing Kwoon. It is our trade mark. Though the yung-yim chop was mechanicly decribed by ten tigers, but it was not explained.

Its the way Bak Hsing execute that motion and coordinate it with our footwork that makes it unique. This is eaqually true of the way we use gwa-sow-cup-and pow but that might be another thread.

cheers

[samson818]

From an outsider's perspective, CLF Buk Sing stylists seem to lean in to their chop choys more than other branches. With their body structure as well as overextending their shoulder.

Dont really understand why Lien Wan Chop Choy cant be described in words...
I would love to get a better understanding of this.
Sure other people as well.

[Satori Science]

Like I said, it can't be describred because it isn't a concept. It is a physiologcal awareness in the shoulder hip fist and foot. In my case I never realized that I was releasing chop choi wrong until my Sifu expliciatly explained and demonstrated what he wanted. And like i said before our chop choi had almost nothing to do with a hand position but is the way that punch is released.

second, if your lucky enough to find any Bak Hsing peolpe who even understand the chop choi and have put in the years of gung training to make it a weapon, are they particularly interested in explaining how to release it? My guess is probably not. I can't speak for other schools but even within the style (my lineage at least) exactly what leen whan chop is and how to use it is a closely guarded secret.

[Steeeve]

Interesting discussion but no answer

Take a look at the Buk sing and buck sing CLF clip in You Tube .....maybe we could find a answer:)

the name lien wan charp chui ...mean continuous cycle of attack with charp chui (chain punch )

Steeve

[Steeeve]

another interesting think is

The sau choi of BSCLF is used like a cup choi of the hung sing ....i mean the sau choi strike with the forward knuckles and the motion is a mostly from up to down .....diferent of the arc or ecleptic motion of hung sing :D

Steeve

[chasincharpchui]

another interesting think is

The sau choi of BSCLF is used like a cup choi of the hung sing ....i mean the sau choi strike with the forward knuckles and the motion is a mostly from up to down .....diferent of the arc or ecleptic motion of hung sing :D

Steeve

not really, again depends which lineage ur from. eg. hung sing choy lay fut sifu chui gwong yuen on his youtube clip he does a sow chui the way u describe as cup choi using the fore knuckles, but he is hung sing

[CLFNole]

Remember Choy Kwong Yuen's father also followed Tam Sam if I recall. But you are right it varies from line to line. Most CLF people I have seen typically throw their sow choys the same way. Some strike with the knuckles as described others will also strike with the inner forearm.

[Shaolindynasty]

Most CLF people I have seen typically throw their sow choys the same way. Some strike with the knuckles as described others will also strike with the inner forearm.

We do both. It depends on your position relative to the opponent.

[CLFNole]

Exactly it all depends on how it is used. People get wrong ideas by seeing forms and pictures and think it is always done 1 way. You can use a sow choy as a takedown, it has a variety of uses.

[Shaolindynasty]

People get wrong ideas by seeing forms and pictures and think it is always done 1 way. You can use a sow choy as a takedown, it has a variety of uses.

I agree 100%. That's what I meant in my article where I said that the techniques you see at a particular moment are only one physical manifestation of an underlying concept.