Wong Fei Hung Tournament and Proven Fakes [Archive]

blacktaoist

10-01-2001, 01:41 PM

What about David ross Guandi? Nobodys afraid to fight Mr. David Ross. Guandi you don't even have a profile you are just like the rest of these fakes, always got something to say but can't be find.(hiding behind the computer)

I Challenge David ross a few times,after all we are about the same age. And my challenge to David ross is still open. I fight him anywhere but at his school.

Guandi you need to reread old post, when i challenge MR, Ross he try to get other people to fight me. Whats up with "that"! If he is a big time San Shou teacher like he said he was,then kicking my ass should be very easy for him.

Now Guandi if you are talking about moshun going to David ross school to fight him, then you need to wake up! A African american going to beat up a white European at his business. Moshun with have palm the **** out of ross, and i know somebody with have call the cops, and moshun with have got lock up.

Guandi are you a fan or student of David Ross? Nobody is hiding from Ross or anybody on kung fu on line! I fight MR David ross at his own San Shou event by whatever rules full contact if he likes. Enough said. The quality of your life is determined by how you use real information...use it wisely.

Guandi

10-01-2001, 02:45 PM

Dear black taoist

I am not a fan of David Ross, in fact I do not know him. But I know that there maoshan said that I will visit him, fight him and record this on tape. David Ross just said: Ok, I am waiting.

This was more or less 9 month ago. I have not heard anything about it since then.

I would not have meantioned it -- it is really not my business -- if maoshan had not said that here all people are just mouthfigthers (my words).

If somebody is saying that he will go to another school and fight there, then he should do it. If he is afraid that david ross will call the cops then he should not made such claims. Otherwise it just mouthfighting, too.

I really have not anything against you or maoshon, I really respect your commitment to the art. But I think you are using different rules about your statements and similiar statements from other people.

peace, Guandi

10-01-2001, 05:35 PM

Hi Masohan, Blacktaoist,

Hey guys, it was a pleasure hanging with you guys.
Our boys had a nice fight, in my eyes, everyone is a winner. They showed heart and skills.

As far as challenges go, I waited for Ego and his friend Leroy, they too were no show.

Anyway, I hope you guys had a good time at the tourny and I see you guys soon.

DF

thumper

10-01-2001, 06:26 PM

I forgot that tournament was goin on. I would have rolled out to Jersey to catch it. That would be ill if David Ross had Maoshan locked up for whoopin him. Could yall write up an agreement that both fighters would sign, saying no one will be held responsible for injury or death? Isn't that how they do in UFC type ?

"...known amongst hoes for the bang bang,
known amongst foes for flows without no talking orangutan,
only gin and tang guzzled out a rusty tin can,
me and this mic is like yin and yang..."

razakdigital

10-01-2001, 08:04 PM

Guandi,

Why are you bringing up Ross? That is in the past! We been down that road. TBT made his offer to fight already. That is history. If you are not fan of Ross why bring it up? I don't think Ross would appreciate you bringing his name up also.

So what if maoshan mention everybody in this forum are mouthfighters? So you feel you need to retalite by mentioning the beef between TBT and Ross? Please...

If you have problems with Maoshan's statement deal with him on that matter. I can only assume his logic in statement was the many emails that him and TBT get on people wanting to test them. Maoshan was at the tournament as a judge and no one step to him. TBT was there and no step to him. The Brothers of Wudang were there also. No one is looking for fights...but I've seen some of these emails and believe me.. there were people at the tournament that were ready to set things off ... I guess this why maoshan wrote what he wrote because he was in "Pakua" territory and no one step to him.

blacktaoist

10-01-2001, 08:13 PM

What's up D-F, it was cool hanging out with you guys, you guys are for real. I did have a good time at the Tournament, can't wait to next year. Hope to see you soon.

Guandi-I really have not anything against you or maoshon,I really respect your commitiment to the art. But I think you are using different rules about your statements and similiar statements from other people.
Guandi what are you talking about? what statements? Also i have nothing against you or anybody on Kung fu on line. People know where to find me i am not hiding.

I told maoshon not to go to David ross school, i know he would had hurt ross real bad(not that i care)there is not need for another African brother to get lock up over bull****.

Maoshon still wants to fight ross, but my sifu told him to fight him in a full contact competition its more professional. Like i said before, I or maoshon will fight MR. david ross at any of his san shou events in New York, full contact rules or no rules.
Like i told you Guandi reread old post, i challenge David ross a few times, and all he did is try to get other people to fight me. Man a few people said they were going to spar me full contact at the Wong FeiHung tournament. I was there, no body step to me. Park bok Nam have a BAGUA school not far from the tourament, any other time they be at the Wong fei Hung tourament, and yes i was going to step to them hard! Bottom line i don't just talk **** for the hell of it, I was in they home town and not one of them step up. There is no fake BAGUA only FAke people!

Abstract

10-02-2001, 05:06 AM

yo i don't wanna get in tha middle of this argument, but, I saw the title of the thread & just wanted to jump in....

I was at the tourney w/MunHung(i was just spectating ;) ) But i've checked out y'all sites in the past & was wondering if any of u would be there...Was one of u wearing a black t-shirt w/a yin-yang on it? If so, YO! I saw one of the sparring matches & you SERVED this cat! NICE footwork and some lighting hands dunn...if not, then well...pardon my interruptin'..

the Ab ;)

-------------------------
In mildness is the strength of steel

maoshan

10-02-2001, 09:36 AM

Ghundi

You’ve been in the shadows far too long to be asking about me and Ross and I will state this one more time. I’m not on anybody’s
Clock but my own, what I wrote, while it was done on a public forum was clearly to Ross. It’s not over by no means so don’t get it twisted. But you, trying to instigate the matter shows who you are. And as for mouth fighters, I don’t fall under that billing. You on the other hand do. You’ve been hiding behind that computer as long as you’ve posted. You won’t come see us nor allow direct contact. Your just as much B***h as the rest of the no faced individuals challenging us and not showing and that takes me some where else that must be addressed.

To the Park Bok Nam School in NJ. This has nothing to do with Park per say but rather the NJ school it self. I have nothing against Park, In fact he may be one of the baddest MF alive, But that still doesn’t change the fact that what is being presented as Yin Fu Ba-Gua is not and I stand by my Word. Someone prove me wrong.
Now to the point, Why send e-mail popping junk after the tournament? From what my brother told me you guys have been at the tournament every year until now. What! We were in your back yard. We could have done this right then and there. I was the head judge for the internal division all went through me. We could have done this and it would have been no problem with the promoters or that schools Sifu. They had already been aware of the promised challenge, so what ever would have come up could have been handled like martial artist But no you have a spy in the bleachers
With dark glasses to boot. He was spotted he was one of the guys Novell threw around at the park in Queens. Question, what’s up with yall? You act like park is a God Yet not one of you has any skill. Granted he travels a lot, but he has two books and videos
For you to follow And your not doing that. If park is so nice why aren’t yall representing? You should be ashamed of your selves. And now your sending e-mail Talking S**t after the fact, Yall knew that we would be there. Do you know how this makes yall look? If I didn’t have respect for yall then, what do you think now? You ask why don’t we go to the school like the old days,
Simple, this isn’t the old days. Just the way things go down in this forum is reason enough not to trust most. So this is it, With the assistance of Yee’s Hung gar senior board we can (if your still not to scared) set up a fight to get this all squashed. Novell will fight you with any rules you want. I on the other hand have but one stipulation I fight with no rules. No biting, Just true unadulterated
Ba-Gua as it was meant to be used I’m a martial artist and as I’ve said before martial means War.
All challengers must contact me. Not Novell. Me. That we may set things up as they need to be. Be it rules, Waivers,.. Whatever .
Bring the noise.

Maoshan

Guandi

10-02-2001, 11:20 AM

>Your just as much B***h as the rest of the no
>faced individuals challenging us and not showing
>and that takes me some where else that must be
>addressed.

I never challenged anyone. I even did not know that there was a competition in NY and I am not one of Park's students. In fact I do not even live in america.

Guandi

razakdigital

10-02-2001, 03:41 PM

The person you saw had a white shirt with a yin yang symbol ...if that is the person you saw he was from out school

Abstract

10-02-2001, 03:46 PM

yea yo, it was a white t shirt, that was him....i was thinkin of this other cat who had a black t on, different match, different logo....but yea, it was him sparring...it was a good match.

-------------------------
In mildness is the strength of steel

razakdigital

10-02-2001, 04:01 PM

What is your email address - email me at razakdigital@hotmail.com

wisdom mind

10-02-2001, 08:58 PM

that rox.

bk figga

lkfmdc

10-03-2001, 01:59 AM

RE asking "Black Taoist" to fight Marvin Perry;

Black Taoist disrespected the US San Shou community and said he was the best US fighter, thus he should fight the current champion at his weight. The current champion at his weight is Marvin Perry. If Black Taoist fights Marvin and beats him, no one will argue he is the best US fighter. After all, Marvin just KO'd the Russian Muay Thai champion in 59 seconds....

I am not currently an active fighter, I am a coach. Just as Li Tai Liang is a coach and has no interest in fighting in a ring. This, by the way is what he told me IN PERSON in Atlanta in July. I talked to him face to face and he said a lot of people were talking in his name. I have no interest and nothing to prove by entering a tournament right now.

The threats were personal, so I will respond to them personally. I told Maoshan and Black Taoist that if they wished to "come and get me" all they had to do was show up at my school

I put in writing on this forum an assurance there would be no police involved. Here I am doing it again.

If you come to my school, I'll gladly fight you

If you want to tape it, tape it and keep the tape

If you come to my school, no police will be called

Pretty clear isn't it? Black Taoist and Maoshan issued challenges, I accepted, ball is in their court if they want to pursue it

blacktaoist

10-03-2001, 02:41 AM

Ross you lie. I never said i was the best U S A Fighter. But anyway i be down to your so-called school to fight you and Knock your Fat ass out. see you then.

wisdom mind

10-03-2001, 05:08 AM

one

lkfmdc

10-03-2001, 05:30 AM

Well, I waited this long, I can keep waiting

and waiting

and waiting

and waiting

maoshan

10-03-2001, 07:37 AM

Ross,
What the F**k is wrong with you? Why do you have to lie like you do? I printed all the post during that time when you first started your Bulls**t. Novell never said that. As far as Marvin Perry is concerned. I spoke with the Boston rep. Josh said they have nothing to do with you, except send some of their fighters to some of your events once in a while. Beyond that nothing. So stop frontin. And stop trying to get other people to fight your own battles for you. This has nothing to do with them.

How do you compare yourself to Li Tai Liang who is in his late 40’s to early 50’s while you are our age. All three of us are coaches
But we fight. Don’t make excuses because your fat and out of shape (which you’ve always been). And who said anything about a ring or tournament, Ross I told you this was personal, When I made that oath I meant every word I said. You think this is a game?
Tournaments are a sport man, games. I’m on some 1800 S**t. no rules, no gloves, just what you’ve got.

And now on to the real business:

We, ‘Maoshan’ and ‘Black Taoist’, are formally accepting the invitation from David Ross to come to his school and fight him in a challenge match.
We have asked the assistance of Dixon Fung to arrange the match and be the witness, in accordance to the traditional method.
Upon Dixon Fung’s acceptance of our request, he will inform both parties of the time and date of the match. Notification of both parties will take place no later than 3 days from the time of this posting.
It is strongly advised that none of the participants expose the date and time of the match, so as to avoid any unwanted exposure or liability. If we lose the match, we agree to close down and cease teaching. If Ross loses, he agrees to the same.

Do you agree?

-Maoshan

blacktaoist

10-03-2001, 07:44 AM

Ross you are a Fallacious *******. You never talk to master Li TAI in person, the man don't speak english. The more i read your post the more i see how big a Mendacious fat ass you are!

Ross you are a nobody in the san shou, you just had an event and not many people were there. "Why" everybody knows you are nothing even the chinese.
So what you are a coach, so i am coach of BAguazhang. Whats you gettting in the ring with me for all to see, have to do with you being a coach. You are the same age is me, but fear to get in the ring with me. Like always you try to get somebody renowned to fight me. "WHY" because you know i Knock you fat ass out for all to see!

Now you are trying to play like you are bad, saying come down to your school you will not call the cops. I have no need to come to your school or anybody school to fight them.

My frist reply to you was post because i was upset!

Now that i cool down, i see you just love lying about everything, everything you post is never conforming to fact or truth. Your statements are always fallacious, i see why now alot of people want to kick your ass.

I know a lot of people on kung fu on line, will pay to see me and you in the ring-You can have what ever rules you want ross. You said you fight me "RIGHT"
After all i Challenge you to a fight,and you accept.

I Know alot of chinese masters that will set this fight up. There is no need for me to come to your school, and knock you out, no matter what you say i know somebody that had beef with you, and came to your school to fight your ***** ass, and like a sucker later on you try to get him lock up! And you call yourself an san shou Coach. Man everybody in New York Martial Art society know you are nothing. Even in the san shou community, they know you have no fighting skills. I hear the last fight you did in san shou event, the guy you you was "TRYING" to fight knock your fat ass out in the 1# round!(LOL)And you call yourself an san shou coach, man you are a joke! If anyboby disrespect the san shou community,it is your fat ass. Look at yourself, you have no speed, power, conditioning or technique. Don't forget i seen you teach, at your old school. You was the 0# student of your sifu. Man i know your background,but you try to post on kung fu on line like you are so bad!

If you are so bad, then why not fight me for all can see, full-contact rules or no rlues in the ring,like professional Martial art fighters do! Also i never said this was a tournament ross, this will be a Fight and im going to hurt you real bad! But i want to do this right!! NOT like "ghetto". MAn in my hood you been got a long time ago! This is no game anymore, you post fallacious statements that i have not said. Where i live lying will get a person beat down!

Ross you don't know me, or the people i be with, but you are about to find out, I don't want any trouble with the law, thats why i don't want to go down to your school you know and i know you have no wins. because i'm going to hurt you real bad for you lying.
You said you fight me, then lets do this like professional fighters in the ring no protective equipment of any kind,after all i want to hit your ass hard with my palm, one plam is all i need for your fat ass. So lets do this fight formal, so after i kick your ass the cops don't come looking for my ass.
You try to promote fighting events, now the time to promote your fight with me,also i have people that can promote and set this up. Now if you don't fight me in the ring, then
i graduate you im coming to see your fat ass "GHETTO STYLE". You are going to see just how powerful brothers from uptown roll son!And nobody is going to jump you,it will be a one on one, just like in my hood! Like i said before you don't know anything about me or where i'm from or what i'm about, but you are about to find out the hard way! Now it up to you, i give you two trigrams ch'ien and k'un to hold in your hands son,how you use this knowledge is up to you, How you want to do tnis Ross GHETTO STYLE OR PROFESSIONAL!!

blacktaoist

10-03-2001, 07:51 AM

Monshan i did know you set things up, or i would not have post this, cool i call you. Ross now its on see you soon son!!

lkfmdc

10-03-2001, 07:59 AM

yeah, I'm fat, I'm out of shape, I can't fight, I have no skill, Maoshan is gonna palm me, you gonna go ghetto on me, blah blah, yip yip, yap yap

I think my post was pretty clear, did you have trouble understanding it?

I have no idea if Li Tai Liang can speak English but he sure can speak Mandarin, and that's what I spoke to him in. For someone who knows everything about me, you seem to forget I speak a couple of different dialects of Chinese

love
LKFMDC

maoshan

10-03-2001, 08:06 AM

Ross,
Pay attention to what I posted.
Novell didn't know that I posted the Response.
Don't get distracted.

Maoshan

lkfmdc

10-03-2001, 08:10 AM

Maoshan, I don't lose focus, did you not understand my first post in this thread? It was pretty simple, doesn't seem like I need to say more does it?

fiercest tiger

10-03-2001, 08:14 AM

whats the difference between ghetto style fighting and normal fighting?

its good to see you all are at it again!?

i really love reading your post guys thanks!!

:D

blacktaoist what other styles fought in the WFH tourney? congrats on your win. :)

come & visit us!
http://home.iprimus.com.au/ykm
yaukungmun@hotmail.com

lkfmdc

10-03-2001, 08:17 AM

Firece Tiger, I really have no idea what the differences are, but I'm sure Black Taoist can define it for you.

I'm also pretty sure they will post some more, but I'm gonna go to sleep. I'm sure their additional posts will be fun and interesting, but it's late and furthermore, I don't really have much more to say. But you have a good night

LKFMDC

maoshan

10-03-2001, 08:36 AM

Now, you know, that's the proplem with being a lier, you have to remember every thing you lied about. While I know that you know chinese I still don't believe that you spoke to Li. How did you, when in the beginning you said that Li sent a rep to you who's english wasn't that good and only knew mandarin and that yours wasn't that good and that he was very rude. Has your usage improved that much?

any way in case you over looked it, Here it is again.

We, ‘Maoshan’ and ‘Black Taoist’, are formally accepting the invitation from David Ross to come to his school and fight him in a challenge match.
We have asked the assistance of Dixon Fung to arrange the match and be the witness, in accordance to the traditional method.
Upon Dixon Fung’s acceptance of our request, he will inform both parties of the time and date of the match. Notification of both parties will take place no later than 3 days from the time of this posting.
It is strongly advised that none of the participants expose the date and time of the match, so as to avoid any unwanted exposure or liability. If we lose the match, we agree to close down and cease teaching. If Ross loses, he agrees to the same.

Do you agree?

-Maoshan

blacktaoist

10-03-2001, 09:46 AM

The difference from normal fighting from ghetto fighting is everything go, in normal fighting you don't have to have a killers mind set because you know you just want to defend yourself in a fight. but when you are ghetto fighting you don't care about getting hit or pain, you only have one thing on your mind,and that is kill the enemy fast! Your enemy can hit the ground and you stomp the **** out of him. Just what i'm going to do to fat ass Ross. When we go down to his school, because he thinks this is a game. Anyone that lives in the hood knows that when people lie about you they got to pay the hard way. This is not about kung fu or who style is better any more, this is about respest. Firece tiger there were a lot of styles of kung fu internal and external kung fu. Hung gar, praying mantis, tai chi, pa kua, and a lot more styles. It was a good tournament. Thank you!
As for you Ross this is my word to everyone on kung fu online unlike you i don't lie, I'm coming to your school before the end of this month and that's my word. You can post all you want like you a bad ass, because i will not reply. The next reply i'll do will be in your face. See you soon, be ready, Peace!

fiercest tiger

10-03-2001, 11:12 AM

mindset is very important, to me fight is a fight, you will get hurt and stomped anytime. no such thing as a friendly fight, well not for me. but with rules i do understand where you are coming from. :)

peace out

as i do a crip walk.... :D

come & visit us!
http://home.iprimus.com.au/ykm
yaukungmun@hotmail.com

10-03-2001, 06:10 PM

Every now and then, there will be differences and disagreement among martial artists. Tradition dictates that if differences cannot be resolve thru talking then the fists will follow. We are martial artists, we train in a fighting art, this is part of the tradition of our discipline.

I accept the role to arrange this match between the two parties, if Sifu Ross agrees to it as well. This is a matter between the two parties, and I will remain neutral in this. I will make sure that it will be a fair fight ( one on one) and try not let this get too out off hand. We do live in a civilize society, there is no need for a death match. In my opinion, this is a mean for both men to settle their differences as warriors and what ever outcome of it will remain private.

I can be reach thru email dixon_hungga@hotmail.com

thks

DF

10-03-2001, 06:27 PM

On a side note, I do not see there is a need for anyone to close the school down at whatever outcome of this match. Both parties follow the tradition of kung fu and bringing this tradition back. What ever happens, both sides has my deepest respect.

DF

Water Dragon

10-03-2001, 07:52 PM

LOL @ grown men acting like 10 year olds.

FYI, my Dad can beat up your Dad :D

You may take my life, but you will never take my Freedom

wckf

10-03-2001, 08:44 PM

Who will be fighting sifu Ross ? Will BT be fighting Ross or will it be Moashan ?

Also, Sifu Ross said he is retired from fighting and wants one of his student to represent him. Why is that wrong?

It is my understanding that this is in compliance with martial tradition of Old China. Often, when the school was challenged by another school, it was acceptable for a sifu to send his best student to fight in his place, after all the student was a by product of the sifu.

Also, BT you did say that you would fight ANYBODY
So, I think Ross got you there!

BTW, I hope you guys can talk it out.

Peace

Water Dragon

10-03-2001, 09:06 PM

Also, Sifu Ross said he is retired from fighting and wants one of his student to represent him. Why is that wrong?

Nothing. In fact it is generally considered an honor to be asked to represent your school in this way. It means that the teacher has faith in you and lends you legitimacy.

Still, this thread sounds like a bunch of kids in Jr. High.

You may take my life, but you will never take my Freedom

wujidude

10-03-2001, 09:12 PM

. . . the fight between Novell and David, that is.

By the way, Novell, the words you've published on this forum set you up for a fall with the law whatever the outcome of the fight, especially if David is seriously injured.

Posted by blacktaoist (a.k.a. Novell) at 12:46 a.m. on 10-4-01:

"The difference from normal fighting from ghetto fighting is everything go, in normal fighting you don't have to have a killers mind set because you know you just want to defend yourself in a fight. but when you are ghetto fighting you don't care about getting hit or pain, you only have one thing on your mind,and that is kill the enemy fast! Your enemy can hit the ground and you stomp the **** out of him. Just what i'm going to do to fat ass Ross. When we go down to his school, because he thinks this is a game."

You've basically threatened to kill David Ross, in a public forum. That in itself is assault. At a minimum, it's evidence in the event of Ross' serious injury (or death)resulting from this fight, for later criminal prosecution or civil litigation. And if Ross does you in, well, your words provide ample justification for self-defense on his part. Why don't you just shut up and go down to his school and do your business? You're better off that way.

Dixon: if you aid and abet this event and serious injury or death results, you'll be legally accountable as well. The fact that it's traditional doesn't make you legally immune from the consequences.

And by the way, folks, the consent of the parties involved won't prevent the relevant authority from stepping in to legally hound the survivor's ass.

maoshan

10-04-2001, 12:17 AM

Ross already said he would fight, No stand in's.
And it's not the Blacktaoist he's fighting.
This will be the last posting by either of us until this matter is setteled

Maoshan

wujidude

10-04-2001, 12:32 AM

Well, this is my last post here on this forum for the foreseeable future. I just got my assignment and I'm outta here. It's all yours.

Daniel Madar

10-04-2001, 01:25 AM

Have fun!

Merciless is Mercy.

10-04-2001, 06:31 AM

Thks for the legal advice.

This is a private matter between two respected sifus. They have been around long enough to know how to handle themself and know when not to cross the line. Things like this used to happen a lot more often, it is really no big deal. It is until recently that the hiding behind lawyers has prevented the test of skills between martial artists. With the help of the internet and facelss identity, the skill no longer lies with the hand but the usage of words. One no longer need to train hard in the gym to aquire skills. To be seem knowledgeable, all one needs to do is to research a lot and knows how to write. Is this the future of kung fu?? If so, may be it is time for us old timers to fade into the sunset.

peace

DF

WongFeHung

10-05-2001, 06:33 PM

on a side note, it brings up the time we tried to start the AAU in Chinatown. All the old-timers were there (I was just a snot-nosed upstart then) (yeah, ok, so nothing's changed) aaannyyway...
so this shirt from AAU is trying to sell the program, and he says that the AAU provides liability insurance. All the Sifus are confused. "What's liability insurance?" one asks.The AAU guy says,"It's in case a student gets hurt and tries to sue you." To which the old timer (I think it might have been Leung Shum) asks, "Who would sue their Sifu?" All the old timers are nodding in agreement, and the AAU guy is totally flustered. -Thought I'd share that with you guys. Ahhh, the good ol days.

wujidude

10-05-2001, 08:10 PM

Those were the days when students kept their mouths shut and trained, and sifus could be trusted, perhaps. If such times ever existed. These days the students definitely don't keep their mouths shut: they keep bringing us their version of "the" truth on this forum, whether we asked for it or not, and that's part of what created the dispute between the two gentlemen here.

In any event, the disagreement isn't between a student and his sifu, it's between two martial artists unrelated by lineage, blood or common decency. Personally I think it's just abusing this forum to drum up new students or sales for one or both groups. If it were purely for honor or simply to test skills, it would've happened long ago.

The legal threat is real. The UFC compromised its rules under political pressure from people like Sen. John McCain. With this fight, I'm not even talking about one fighter suing another, which would be dismissed in any reasonable court. I'm talking about the threat to kill before the fight coupled with serious injury or death resulting from the fight. That's the kind of combination that attracts the attention of police and prosecutors--regardless of the race of the parties involved. I can name a number of incidents where this has happened around the country. Real fights.

In one where I used to live the local hung-gar sifu got his back cracked when he taunted and cajoled the area's karatekas about their stiff, slow art. There was a formal challenge. There was legal action after the fight. I have personal knowledge of that one, which is the only reason I raised the caution above in the first place.

The prospect of state regulation of the martial arts is growing. In both California and New York, there has been legislative study of the matter. Incidents like this one when amplified through a public forum only give proponents of regulation more ammunition for their position.

A few years ago, a Yang taijiquan practitioner from Singapore put up several pages of translations and interpretations on the art of taijiquan in a very nice website which is still online, but one will note has not been updated for a very long time. In various Internet forums and discussions, this fellow claimed to have insight into the deep secrets of the Yang family's art, and the ability to show those insights. A rather thickly-built British gentleman, a resident of Malaysia and a long-time student of a prominent offshoot of Yang taijiquan, decided to pay a visit to the Singapore writer to test his skills. Following this test of skills, the Singapore man has not been heard from on the subject of taijiquan. A rather direct settlement of their affairs, without dinning the rest of us with unpleasant noise.

Internal Boxer

10-05-2001, 09:49 PM

TBT & Maoshan.

I have the greatest of respect for TBT and Mao, and consider them immensely committed, knowledgeable and passionate individuals; their hearts are in the right place, as they genuinely want Bagua to be transmitted as a quality art. It is disappointing when arts like Taiji have been so watered down that they are often considered as just a stress reliever.

I admire their attitude of keeping it real, as I tend to cross train as much as I can, with boxers, grapplers and wrestlers. I can appreciate there is too much Bu.. Sh.. involved with the internal and I tend to have more respect for the real fighters such as bouncers who are constantly in brawls every weekend (Geoff Thompson for example had over 1000 fights, and got called in to the roughest night clubs to deal with brutally skilled street fighters)

What I find a shame is whenever they have a disagreement with anyone on line they have a tendency to challenge to fight. Obviously as martial artists it cannot be denied we are involved in a violent pastime, but I am not sure if this is necessary.

Having read ALL posts between the opposing parties, TBT & Mao did challenge Mr Ross, for reasons that are so futile that amount to ego. I realise both have traded insults which is childish to say the least, but Mr Ross has said is come and see him that was a while ago, now at least the thing will be over but 2 on 1 don't seem like a fair fight to me!!

I have no bias to anyone involved in this altercation as I do not know any of them.

TBT & Mao: get laid, smoke a reefer, have a beer chill out, life is too short to be held hostage to your own ego.
:rolleyes:

Guandi

10-06-2001, 10:19 AM

Dear Wujidude

>A rather thickly-built British gentleman

have you ever met him? He is a nice person!

Guandi

Daniel Madar

10-06-2001, 12:05 PM

I'm aware of the Singaporean Gentleman, might I ask who the English one is? I have a guess, but I doubt it, since last I heard he does not live in malaysia.

Merciless is Mercy.

Guandi

10-06-2001, 01:09 PM

Hi Daniel

go: http://www.zhong-ding.com

Guandi

Daniel Madar

10-06-2001, 06:55 PM

:)

Merciless is Mercy.

PlasticSquirrel

10-06-2001, 10:46 PM

i don't think it's childish. do you people think that if one teacher insulted another in old china, they would just settle it with words? no way. they would lose face if they just ignored it.

btw, good luck to you guys, hope you get him good. :)

fiercest tiger

10-07-2001, 04:41 AM

whats going on guys! or is this all bull ****e?

come & visit us!
http://home.iprimus.com.au/ykm
yaukungmun@hotmail.com

friday

10-08-2001, 05:58 AM

is the guy called david ross the one who teaches at the NY kickboxing place that also teaches kung fu and cardio karate?

regards

888

friday

10-11-2001, 05:50 AM

hmmm...so no news now??? did it happen etc??? comn

888

fiercest tiger

10-11-2001, 09:35 AM

it wont happen, this has been going on for months!

so hows training my brother? :)

come & visit us!
http://home.iprimus.com.au/ykm
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Stai-Nyce

10-13-2001, 05:54 AM

That sh*t is funny!
Maoshan, thanks for the laugh!

friday

10-13-2001, 07:02 AM

Hi fiercest tiger
sorry bro
but i hav ebeen injured for a while now so haven't been training unfortunately...sigh its very depresssing.

anyway when i m better we should meet up

Friday

888

fiercest tiger

10-13-2001, 12:17 PM

thats to bad about the injury! is it serious? can it be fixed with dit dar? maybe i can try and help if you like?

yes lets catch up when you are well?

later mate :)

come & visit us!
http://home.iprimus.com.au/ykm
yaukungmun@hotmail.com

10-14-2001, 01:40 AM

Greatest respect goes out to you guys. Thank you for bringing the tradition back, you all show what it takes to be a real KF Sifu.

Peace

DF

fiercest tiger

10-14-2001, 04:08 AM

How do you get that answer? what have they done, HERE? argue, and now they will fight like little school kids, but ghetto style! not chinese, but ghetto!! just f@cking with ya boys.

is there a chinese ghetto style? or is it only african american style? fighting is fighting its all ugly... :eek:

come & visit us!
http://home.iprimus.com.au/ykm
yaukungmun@hotmail.com

10-14-2001, 05:39 AM

What are you asking? Ghetto style ? What is Chinese ghetto style or African American ghetto style?

This is a private matter between Ross and BT and maoshan. It was unfortunate it was made public and now they settled it like martial artists had done for many years in the past. Both sides had earned my respect for confronting the issue and not hide behind some computer screen. They bought respect back to KF.

Fiercest tiger, I see from your profile and website that you are a member of YKM. The Yuen Ling Hung Ga Clan has a long history with the YKM group in Hong Kong. Out of respect to the elders from both of our system, I will not start a debate with you, but please explain the tone of your post.

peace

DF

fiercest tiger

10-14-2001, 10:01 AM

Explain to you what? i dont live in the states for a start, and anything between ykm and hung gar there has nothing to do with me, so dont start this sh!t with me mate.

what i was saying before you blow this out of proportion is one said he will fight him ghetto style and i said what is ghetto fighting compared to baqua he was learning! he said all out fighting, so i said is there any other type?!!

dont read into things, before shooting your mouth off. also what happened between ykm and hung gar in the u.s.a? email me privately if you want to!!

also its good that they have settled it out, true! but it should never of happened, its there ego's that got them into this. who cares who is better? as they say there is always a higher mountain. :D

come & visit us!
http://home.iprimus.com.au/ykm
yaukungmun@hotmail.com

razakdigital

10-14-2001, 03:31 PM

Tiger,

With all do respect...this situation between both parties had nothing to do with both of their egos. It was a complicated situation which is at this point beyond the scope of explaining of this forum. ( I know full well because I was there in the beginning)

It's funny in your previous post you are interested in what was going on with this situation and now you quote about "ego's". Why should you care about this issue? It reminds me of Mike Tyson. Regardless on how the media and the public insult him because of his actions (I'm not justifying his personal issues at all just making a statement) but when every he fights it's a packed house!

These men settled their dispute martially and that is honorable in its own right. We spend all of our personal time reading about how old masters settled their disputes and now when two martial artist choose to that everybody want make quotes on "peace". Life is duality and you cannot have one without the other. That is nature and you cannot run from it.

Do not judge if you do not understand the situation. As martial artist these parties who were debating online stood face to face in their settlement. I have respect for this not because of the usage of violence but to use and practice what they preach.

I hope I shed some light in this manner.

DK - I saw you at the Wong Fei tournament but I did not get a chance to meet you. I good things about you sir. In your statements I've learn alot about the martial way. Thank you for your insight in this manner.

Mr. Nemo

10-14-2001, 06:17 PM

I applaud blacktaoist and lkfmdc for deciding to settle things for real instead of bickering on the internet. If two martial artists have a problem with each other, I see nothing wrong with them fighting, provided its done sensibly. They both have my respect for that.

That said, I think their conflict, as I saw it on here, had a whole lot to do with ego.

10-14-2001, 07:18 PM

check the email

DF

wisdom mind

10-14-2001, 07:36 PM

nfm

SanShou Guru

10-14-2001, 08:29 PM

TBT let me know if you want a chance to fight Marvin Perry for a pro San Shou title. I could talk to Tom Battone and see if we could do it on one of his cards since you won't fight on Ross's cards.

Oh and there is a guy on the Kung Fu board named ralek that claims to have ko'ed a tai chi instructor and thus proved that tai chi is useless.

"Information is power"

blacktaoist

10-14-2001, 08:31 PM

Fiercest tiger and DF, there is no need for you guys to debate with each other about what is Ghetto style. F-Tiger you ask me what the difference between ghetto style fighting and normal fighting.
And i define it for you, i told you killer mind set that's all. It have nothing to do with styles, i know many good street fighters that live in my hood, that beat the out of many so-called kung fu fighters, "why" because the kung fu guy didn't have the mind set or the skill.

All styles in my eyes are ghetto. Back in the 1800s in china, kung fu fighters were almost exclusively ruffians(ghetto) and the development of fighting skills was associated with criminal behaviior. It wasn't until until mid-nineteenth century that chinese scholars began to take interest in studying martial arts and writing about it. Why" because back then secret societies formed, the government and police were corrupt(a person had to have real skill)so the scholars had to learn to protect themself and their money. The merging of the chinese scholars and poor chinese people was the instability of the 1800s. If you didn't have fighting skills, then you was good as dead" Back then fighters were born from the chinese hood, they had no money, unlike the chinese scholars who was down with the government and police, they pay to protect them. A lot of chinese high skill fighters were from the chinese ghetto, they did what they had to do, to make a living, Even if they had to take somebody ! too bad, thats just how life was back then-"GHETTO" they didn't give a **** LOL. And there you have it F-tiger the GHETTO MINDSET! LOL

AS for me having ego, i have none. what i do have is my word. A man is only good as his word. And my word is true. I said i was going to sifu ross school to fight, and i did. ME and my kung fu brother maoshan. Sifu ross said he would fight and the man did fight, he didn;t hide like so many on kung fu on line are doing.(talking but can't be find)It was just me and maoshen, sifu ross was there with all of his students, and they did not try to jump us. It was a one on one,maoshan and ross. After the fight they became friends. Sometimes in life prople have to test skills, and that day was one of them. This fight was about respect not ego. I have to respect sifu ross because he was there and he did fight. Because of that the man have my respect. So now that him and maoshen are cool, i have no need to fight sifu ross, there is no need. Bottom line, i maoshan,ross practice what we preach.

What ever i post, i always post true statements about people i met. I never said sifu park bok nam didn't have fighting skills,i do have respect for sifu park nam. What i said was the students from his N-J school didn't have anything(real fighting skills)"I DON"T HAVE RESPECT FOR HIM" this was not a mandacious statement, but a true statement. I have met and crosshands with some of the students of that school, they skill was not good, why get upset? Practice harder, thats all i have to say on that matter.

D-F i enjoy your sifu Hung-GA seminar, i learned alot about the mind set, and many ways to use the palm. On the real, i didn't know your style had so many palm techniques like BaguaZhang. Some of the movements form your style have lohan palm techniques. Man your sifu is a real killer. Also do your sifu ever give iron palm seminars? IF so, you know i'm down. pease blacktaoist

blacktaoist

10-14-2001, 09:07 PM

San shou gurn, me and ross beef is old news now,i hope that we are kung-fu brothers now.(friends) I'll fight on ross card. I don't know marvin perry, but i fear no man. I'll love to fight for the pro san shou tittle. but the monery have to be right, E-mail me your number and we can talk about setting this fight up. It's time for someone to show people that Baguazhang people can fight. let's do this! Here is my e-mail BLACKTAOIST@hotmail.com peace

SanShou Guru

10-14-2001, 09:17 PM

I'm glad you are cool with Ross now. It's much easier to do San Shou fights at his events. Ross's next event would be early next year and I will talk to him and let you know.

If you want to see Marvin Perry go here (http://www.marvinperry.org/) and you can see clips of some of his fights. We would need to see tape of you fighting to make sure that you are of comperable skill since it would hopefully be a title fight.

I'll be in touch.

"Information is power"

Daniel Madar

10-14-2001, 09:33 PM

Fighting is good. Seriously, sounds like all turned out for the best.

-D

Merciless is Mercy.

blacktaoist

10-14-2001, 10:27 PM

I have seen the clips of marvin perry fights. He is a good fighter from the little i saw, cool. I know i have good skill to fight him, for his tittle. After all i beat a sklled san shou fighter from china and i'm 34 years old. I send you a tape of same of my fights, just e-mail me your address or i give the tape to sifu ross to send to you. Also i like a tape of marvin perry fights, not just clips. peace.

fiercest tiger

10-15-2001, 02:35 AM

my post wasnt ment to upset anyone, but all i was trying to say is your mindset in martial arts is to kill/hurt your attacker. there is no difference betwen ghetto and baqua thats why i was suprised to read that from you BT!

I believe you sorted it out the right way but i dont think all of kfo should have been involved! i have applaud your efforts at winning at tourneys and have nothing against you or your schools. but you and ross before had this big argument and it went no where, then it happened again, so i thought its all ego involved, who is better or worst it doesnt matter. ross has fighters winning, you fight and win too. you are both good at what you are doing..am i right?

so what was the out come of the fight who one? did anyone get hurt?

good luck to you all sorry you all took it the wrong way!

DF
thanks for the email, i sent you one straight back!

moashan,
sorry to interupt your sh!t here ill stay out of your politics with ross! all the best with your fighting abilities and teaching.

come & visit us!
http://home.iprimus.com.au/ykm
yaukungmun@hotmail.com