Little confused...

[RedLine]

Ok I'm new in this forum (or a troll as you say here :p ), and I wanted to ask the users here (since I see they know their stuff) a couple of questions.
I'm 16, and recently I got hooked up with martial arts (especially Chinese), and I (and my brother who's 18) decided to take one step further and actually start training, but I was disappointed, because I don't know anything about martial arts. I have never trained it and basically I don't know anything about it (the main problem was that 1 year ago I was living in a country where aren't a lot of martial art lovers), but recently I got interested in it and I want (as I said before) to take it a step further and train some style. And here came all the problems, I was impressed by the drunken boxing, but as i read in the net it is very difficult to master, or even start training it, so I decided to start with some other style, and here come the questions:
1. What style will you recommend me that I can use as a "base" for drunken boxing?
2. Is it possible to find information to train at home or i need to go to a dojo?
3. So i tried to find dojos near my location, but as i found out, there is not a big choice of schools that teach Chinese styles of martial arts, i found one that teaches Gray Crane Kung-Fu Systems
10 Animal systems & Tai-Chi
I asked the owner when are the practices and how much it costs, and he told me that he charges 20$ per visit, and the dojo is open only Tuesday from 7:00 till 9:00 p.m. So i want to ask you does it worth it?
4. And if no can you give me tips what to do?
Thank you for your attention and please no hate, flaming and offtopics.

[RedLine]

OK from the looks of it i got you more confused than i am, then just tell me is it worth it 20$ for once a week training? And can i get more info on the 10 Animal systems?

[bodhitree]

For one thing

What are your motivations? Why drunken boxing?

You should take into account:

Your goals, the availability of teacher/school near you, economics (20$ a week could be good or bad depending upon # of classes per week, facilities, etc., for one class a week unless you're in NYC or someplace like that, sounds like you're getting screwed).

Why do you want to learn drunken boxing? Seriously? Just because it would be cool or for some other reason.

I would say a good teacher is always the way to go. Don't choose a style because you think its cool or flashy, that stuff doesn't mean anything.

If there are no chinese martial arts, find some other good martial arts, you'll stay in shape and that experience will only help you when you do find a chinese martial arts school. (Judo, boxing, BJJ, muay thai, kenpo, any of these schools will do). For drunken boxing you may want to train gymnastics, seriously. If no drunken boxing is available, try it out, it will improve your physical abilities.

Good Luck.

[Pork Chop]

Are you in chicago?
If so, this list should be a little more comprehensive:
http://www.challengermartialarts.com/schoolsIL.htm
If not, where do you live?

otherwise, i back up what bodhitree said: take gymnastics if you want to be able to do the flashy stuff from drunken boxing later on.

[RedLine]

I don't know i want boxing, because...yes it is cool, BUT all my life i was clumsy you know, tried to train soccer, but at some moments i kick the ball so sucky that it goes the other way, and i want to take this challenge...I know maybe i will fail it from the start but i want to improve myself, to take the challenge, i want to prove to myself that i can take it on(if not make it, at least try it). Sooo i don't know if that is a good reason, but this is the truth....and in a kind of way i like challenges like this. ;)

And yes i live in Chicagoland area, in a village called Schaumburg.

And yes the price is 20$ for a two hour practise, once a week.

P.S. is Jiu Jitsu ok as a beginning?

[SevenStar]

No, jiu jitsu will not prepare you for drunken boxing, he's suggeting that as an alternative, as it will likely offer more realistic applications for you. Is your only reason for pursuing drunken style improved coordination? If so, you can get that from pretty much any style...

[dougadam]

Is there a school near you that teaches this style?

[RedLine]

Nope...thare are hardly any dojos near, a big chunk are in downtown. Hmmm this is not good, there is not a big list fo schools to choose from.

@ SevenStar yeah pretty much i search for i style to train as something that will atleast prepare me a little(because a read that drunken boxing is very difficult), and then go learn drunken boxing.

[SevenStar]

drunken boxing is typically taught as a subsystem of longfist styles. you likely will not find an exclusive drunken school. you can inquire at the various chinese schools. however,personally I would just try to find the best school in the area, not go on a quest to find drunken kung fu.

[RedLine]

Yeah maybe you're right. :) Maybe i should just choose another style, and maybe with time i'll get lucky or something. But finding a school is not that easy too. :rolleyes: I have 2 dojos near me one on 1 mile other on 0.7 mile, the closest it a brazilian dojo, and other is 20$ for one day per week...

[SevenStar]

does the bjj school have a website? I would look into them. do you have transportation so you can go further than that?

[MonkeyKingUSA]

I don't know i want boxing, because...yes it is cool, BUT all my life i was clumsy you know, tried to train soccer, but at some moments i kick the ball so sucky that it goes the other way, and i want to take this challenge...I know maybe i will fail it from the start but i want to improve myself, to take the challenge, i want to prove to myself that i can take it on(if not make it, at least try it). Sooo i don't know if that is a good reason, but this is the truth....and in a kind of way i like challenges like this. ;)

And yes i live in Chicagoland area, in a village called Schaumburg.

And yes the price is 20$ for a two hour practise, once a week.

P.S. is Jiu Jitsu ok as a beginning?

$20 for a two hour practice session is not a bad deal if you have found a good instructor.

Yes, jujutsu would give you a great starting point for drunken boxing. You would learn how to safely fall and roll. These are two very important basics for drunken boxing. As others mentioned, gymnastics lessons would be a great starting point also.

[RedLine]

@ SevenStar http://www.championjiujitsu.com/main.html website for the bjj.
Yes i have transportation, but the problem is that i don't want to depend on other people, because if my father one day is home and on the other is out doing something and i can't go to practice, that is why i want it close so i can either walk to it, or use a bike in the summer. So the bjj is out...the only one that is left (that i can walk/bike safely) is: Gray Crane Kung-Fu Systems that teaches 10 Animal systems & Tai-Chi, if you can tell me which is better...And if neither has something incomon with boxing i'll consider a school a little further from my home. And if someone wants I can send them a link with mapquest search results, to see what do i have near me...

[SevenStar]

$20 for a two hour practice session is not a bad deal if you have found a good instructor.

Yes, jujutsu would give you a great starting point for drunken boxing. You would learn how to safely fall and roll. These are two very important basics for drunken boxing. As others mentioned, gymnastics lessons would be a great starting point also.

having trained both bjj and longfist, I can tell you that the two are very far removed from eachother. learning how to fall would really be the only similarity,and even that is different.

[RedLine]

Rhank you guys for everything, If all goes well, I'm thinking of going Tuesday for my first practise. :) I think of taking 10 animals system and Tai-Chi. :)

[RedLine]

Oh well, here I am, and still nothing, didn't go to any school, I my parrents don't want to give me 20$ a week...I guess I can't make any plans until i start a job...Wow here in america it is really tight (since i'm here for less than an year >.<)...So I'm still visiting here and reading, and i hope when i start work (hopefully this month) I can brag about my first practice, here. :D Oh and since i go to fitness (for the last 2 months) is that good or bad for any future martial arts? And since i can use a small area for practice (with mirrors :p ), can someone tell me some basic exercises or something, for speed and agility or something for MA, oh yeah i can use a partner, mats, and a punching bag. Thank you in advance! :)

[johnrettenmiere]

I registered just to post a reply to this. Seriously speaking, I think the spread of mixed martial arts changed what we all think of in terms of effective fighting arts. Now, at some schools, people have been training so hard, and for so long that they will dispute the truth. Despite the fact that mixed martial arts events (where early on anything went, and now certain events still allow nearly everyhing) have shown a bias towards certain arts, and despite the fact that MMA is the closest simulation you will get to real fighting, traditional martial artists have found ways to not have to admit that their long-loved art is just not as useful in a real combat situation.

Common things you will here are: "But my martial art trains eye gouging, or groin kicks which are not allowed in MMA," or "my martial art trains deadly pressure point attacks that cannot be safely or ethically be practiced in MMA," or "you have never seen this (obscure) style compete in MMA," or "the punching or kicking is very similar to arts in MMA that have found success." I for one do not believe these denials.

The fact is, if you want an effective fighting art, you do not want to do praying mantis style, or tiger style, or drunken boxing style kung-fu. You do not even want to do wushu or cardio kickboxing or even shotokan karate or most arts of kempo/kenpo. If you are smart, you will find a way to pick out something from ANY martial art and use it to your advantage; HOWEVER, some arts will fill you up with 97% of what you need, and other arts can only offer you marginal advantage for real subtle points.

Take muay thai for stand-up. If you really like chinese arts, go to extreme kungfu in chicago for some Sanda/San-shou. Sanshou training in most places mimics muay thai training except they have a straight side kick (that I think is effective) and they have throws (in the competitions they disallow knees and elbows). If you really want to get fancy, kyokushin karate is as far as I will go with the striking (and kyokushin hasn't fared as well as muay thai in K1 which has rules purposely designed to limit the power of muay thai). That says one thing when a muay thai fighter can't throw elbows and can only attack once with a grabbed leg and cannot throw multiple head knees and STILL becomes champion (Buakaw and Semmy Schilt trained mostly in Muay Thai). It means that Muay Thai is on the whole more effective. The longest reigning middleweight champion in Pride fighting was muay thai. So is current middleweight UFC champion Anderson Silva. Mirko "Cro cop" Filipovic the top ranked heavyweight MMA fighter in the world spent a considerable amount of time in Branco Cikatic's old gym in Croation (a Muay Thai gym), and although his high kick is no longer purely a muay thai style, he certainly did benefit positively from Muay Thai training.

If you want to learn ground fighting, take brazilian jiu-jitsu. If you are not really the biggest guy around, you can make up for some of that with technique in BJJ. If you really dislike brazilian jiu-jitsu (which 99% of MMA fighters have some knowledge of), do high school wrestling (freestyle or Roman-greco). The only other effective art in my opinion for clinch to ground is judo (useful against people with coats on the street). All other arts are relatively unproven (I would maybe venture to try traditional jiujitsu-- but even that is only marginally proven). The fact is, if a fight goes to the ground, nothing will teach you how to stay in control of the most important factor, position, like BJJ will.

Seriously, I was never good at sports, but eventually I picked up Western boxing (which is great for straight punching BTW and can complement Muay Thai), and it has improved my coordination tremendously. I then did a style of kenpo, wushu, white crane, praying mantis, TKD, muay thai, JKD, judo-- then BJJ, and muay thai again. And let me tell you you get weird feints from different kung fu styles, and you can pick up fast kicks from tae kwon do, and you can pick up a pretty decent cross from kenpo (and some wrist grab escapes-- still useful now in my MMA), but overall 97% of my technique comes from boxing, muay thai, wrestling, and brazilian jiu jitsu. Judo is biased against in MMA, but is very useful in real life (where people actually do have coats on similar to training 'gis').

In summary if you want to learn how to do cool stuff, you can do gymnastics. Or I know jackie chan did ballet. Practice jumping tumbling, flying, stretching, twirling, etc. I have nothing against that and I think martial arts that are more art have a place. But if you are talking about the most useful arts to really defend yourself, or to just be the best fighter possible-- I would start with Muay Thai. There is a gym called Toro Muay Thai. There is also Team Oyama's gym a little outside of Chicago. I would start with the stand-up fight game because it 'looks cool', and because in real life against multiple attackers, learning how to strike will be of more use. Then I would learn how to defend a leg pick, or a double leg takedown or a tackle, or better yet I once I learned enough of Muay Thai, I would switch or add Brazilian Jiu-jitsu. Both arts can be adjusted for short stocky fighters, as well as tall fighters, as well as flat footed, less muscular, too muscular, any kind of build really. The more important thing is desire and dedication.

If you just want to get fit, I would start with boxing or kickboxing which gives one a hardcore cardio work out. If you think spiritual growth is important, I would look into Judo perhaps (most gyms emphasize inner-peace and spiritual growth as well as competition).

Anyhow my recommendations to you if you really want to learn something that will help you fight if necessary are:
1.) Muay Thai or San Shou
2.) Brazilian jiu jitsu/wresting/judo

Later if you feel the boxing from muay thai is lacking, you can learn more advanced movements from western boxing gyms.

Anyhow goodluck. Starting at 16 is pretty good. If you were dedicated, you could with persistence and thoughtful training be the few toughest fighters in the world if thats what you wanted. Maybe you're not that hardcore. Even still, getting mugged and beat up on the street when you tried to attack someone's pressure point, or when you started doing a kung fu dance, or when you slapped someone with a tae kwon do kick can be avoided if pick up an art that will get you 97% of self defence. Trust me, if your goal is to learn to fight (most people who start in martial arts have this goal), then when you are older you'll thank me for not easily allowing you to go the animal kungfu route.

[johnrettenmiere]

yeah. you have a mirror, and you have a bag. You can learn a lot of boxing with just those two things and some space.

This is what you do. You buy some cheap handwraps ~$5. Get long mexican handwraps (long is good because in the beginning you always run out trying to go over fingers).

Then you go to this site:
http://www.expertvillage.com/interviews/boxing-basics.htm

Then you wrap your hands.

Now if you want to hit the bag, I would recommend gloves. I would buy $20-$40 TRAINING gloves not competition or bag gloves from ringside.com or combatsports.com, or anywhere where you find decent cheap gloves. If you can afford it later, buy nice Cleto Reyes, but for now I would go with Top Contender for the best value gloves ~$29 plus tax. Get heavy ones 16oz or heavier.

After you wrap your hands, put them in the gloves and hit the bag, but follow the instructions on how to punch from the free boxing instrucitonal on expert village. At all times keep your hands up, chin down, and a ~30 degree profile facing the bag or an imaginary opponent. Now just practice moving with the bag. Swing the bag by pushing it. Then just practice moving back and forth. NEVER bring your feet too close together, and always move your outer foot first. If you are moving back, move your back leg first, if you are moving forward, move your front leg forward first. Don't bring your feet too close together. Now just move side to side, back and forth, and around the bag. Don't even go fast if you are tripping over yourself. You can do it in a room or with the rhythm of a bag. Remember hands up to your around your cheek and chin down.

For the punches follow the instructionals. You should first learn the jab. Jab as much as possible early on. Do it in front of the mirror. Correct your mistakes. Are you dropping your guard prior to jabbing? Are you holding out the jab too long and pushing? Are you falling out of balance with the jab? Look at yourself, and then look at a real boxer on youtube throwing a jab. Look at the instructional on the jab. Does it look similar? Is your elbow mistakenly coming out before you jab? Are you punching through your imaginary target like you are suppose to? Most importantly do you feel balanced? Throw the jab 1000 times. Throw it fast, slow, one at a time, two at a time, three ata time until your shoulder feels like it will fall off, but throw each punch mindfully. Are you guarding your chin at all times?

OK after the jab, learn the cross (your first power punch), then learn the lead hook, then the rear hook, and then the front uppercut, then the rear uppercut. Learn each one with as much care as you took for the jab. When you work the bag you can have an entire session just on jabs or just on moving around and jabbing. You can do the same with crosses.

When it comes time that you've mastered each individual punch while moving around the bag without tripping over yourself, try body punches. These are the same as head shots, but you have to drop your vertical position. You must never stay upright and throw a downward jab or cross to the midsection because you leave your head open. Take as much care with the body jab as you did with just the jab. Work the bag, and work in front of a mirror. Do the same for the cross and hooks and uppercuts.

Finally, you can throw combos. Learn a jab-cross, then a jab-cross-lead-hook. Then you can start writing down your own combos like jab-body lead hook-head lead hook-rear uppercut. Do 5 3min rounds of shadowboxing (in front of a mirror or around the room), then do 5 3 min rounds on the heavy bag with gloves on. Then learn one combo. Spend at least a few days on one combo. Eventually you will learn more and more combos. At this point you will need training partners and sparring partners to make progress, but you are more effective at punching than most that don't know anything about striking.

Good luck.

[johnrettenmiere]

always compare your boxing to the free instructional videos.

the jab: should be snappy. you should whip it out and back.
the cross: are you twisting your hips and turning your torso? on a jab-cross combo you can pull the jab hand back to your cheek to gain power on the turn for the cross.
the lead hook: go on the ball of your feet with your front foot, and as if you are crushing something with your feet, use your ball of your front foot to help you turn your hips. your lead hook arm should be bent at about 90 degrees and it should be parallel to the ground. Hook it around like you are saying, "get over here" and hooking someone's neck.
rear hook: similar. turn your body, twist, 90 degree arm bent, arm parallel to the ground.
Uppercuts: keep elbows tight to body when torquing for an uppercut. All the power in all the shots comes from your hips.

Are you at all times guarding your face with one hand?

Compare the image in the boxing instructional to yourself in the mirror. You have all the knowledge to pick up the basics in boxing. Utilize the website. Find other free videos. Compare to image in mirror. Repeat until you find a gym and a trainer.

[bodhitree]

Try gymnastics?

[RedLine]

Thank you, johnrettenmiere! I'm really happy that someone responded. I will try your tips, and i have a friend that does bxing, and he can show me something too. ;) Again thank you!

[RedLine]

Oh, and I'm a leftie! I am more acurate and stronger in punches with my left hand, how the stance should be? Right arm first?

[SevenStar]

overall,that is decent advice. at this early stage, I wouldnt worry about the rear hook, over hand right or any other - only the jab, cross, hook and uppercut for right now. work with your friend as much as possible - that experience is more valuable than what u get from a vid. vids are for supplementing your learning, not for primary instruction.

I have never been to a competition based judo club that emphasizes spiritual growth.

[RedLine]

I'm stuck...today was my first practice with the stance (running left-right and forward-backward) and the Jab, and I mentioned something, most people's stances are with the left arm first and rght back, and i know most people are righties, so I'm a leftie how should I do my stance? Right arm first and left hand back?
And what is the proper way to do a jab? :confused:
http://www.expertvillage.com/videos/boxing-lesson-jab.htm
or
http://sports.expertvillage.com/videos/boxing-jab.htm

[Adventure427]

Yes if you want to fight leftie...or "southpaw"...you would do right front, left back. I train both. Jeet Kune DO trains powerside foward though. To each his own

[huolung]

[QUOTE=RedLine;737664]
1. What style will you recommend me that I can use as a "base" for drunken boxing?

From most of my research I would say Choy Li Fut as Zuiquan (Drunken Boxing) is actually taught in the style.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

There is a local Kuntao/Shuia Jiao master in our area. He has a senior who may do lessons near you.

It's not taught until way later, but there IS a Drunken sub system in the Kuntao.

I have seen bits and pieces of it, but never the whole thing, but the basis of our system will prepare you for it if you stick with it long enough.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

I registered just to post a reply to this. Seriously speaking, I think the spread of mixed martial arts changed what we all think of in terms of effective fighting arts. Now, at some schools, people have been training so hard, and for so long that they will dispute the truth. Despite the fact that mixed martial arts events (where early on anything went, and now certain events still allow nearly everyhing) have shown a bias towards certain arts, and despite the fact that MMA is the closest simulation you will get to real fighting, traditional martial artists have found ways to not have to admit that their long-loved art is just not as useful in a real combat situation.

Common things you will here are: "But my martial art trains eye gouging, or groin kicks which are not allowed in MMA," or "my martial art trains deadly pressure point attacks that cannot be safely or ethically be practiced in MMA," or "you have never seen this (obscure) style compete in MMA," or "the punching or kicking is very similar to arts in MMA that have found success." I for one do not believe these denials.

The fact is, if you want an effective fighting art, you do not want to do praying mantis style, or tiger style, or drunken boxing style kung-fu. You do not even want to do wushu or cardio kickboxing or even shotokan karate or most arts of kempo/kenpo. If you are smart, you will find a way to pick out something from ANY martial art and use it to your advantage; HOWEVER, some arts will fill you up with 97% of what you need, and other arts can only offer you marginal advantage for real subtle points.

Take muay thai for stand-up. If you really like chinese arts, go to extreme kungfu in chicago for some Sanda/San-shou. Sanshou training in most places mimics muay thai training except they have a straight side kick (that I think is effective) and they have throws (in the competitions they disallow knees and elbows). If you really want to get fancy, kyokushin karate is as far as I will go with the striking (and kyokushin hasn't fared as well as muay thai in K1 which has rules purposely designed to limit the power of muay thai). That says one thing when a muay thai fighter can't throw elbows and can only attack once with a grabbed leg and cannot throw multiple head knees and STILL becomes champion (Buakaw and Semmy Schilt trained mostly in Muay Thai). It means that Muay Thai is on the whole more effective. The longest reigning middleweight champion in Pride fighting was muay thai. So is current middleweight UFC champion Anderson Silva. Mirko "Cro cop" Filipovic the top ranked heavyweight MMA fighter in the world spent a considerable amount of time in Branco Cikatic's old gym in Croation (a Muay Thai gym), and although his high kick is no longer purely a muay thai style, he certainly did benefit positively from Muay Thai training.

If you want to learn ground fighting, take brazilian jiu-jitsu. If you are not really the biggest guy around, you can make up for some of that with technique in BJJ. If you really dislike brazilian jiu-jitsu (which 99% of MMA fighters have some knowledge of), do high school wrestling (freestyle or Roman-greco). The only other effective art in my opinion for clinch to ground is judo (useful against people with coats on the street). All other arts are relatively unproven (I would maybe venture to try traditional jiujitsu-- but even that is only marginally proven). The fact is, if a fight goes to the ground, nothing will teach you how to stay in control of the most important factor, position, like BJJ will.

Seriously, I was never good at sports, but eventually I picked up Western boxing (which is great for straight punching BTW and can complement Muay Thai), and it has improved my coordination tremendously. I then did a style of kenpo, wushu, white crane, praying mantis, TKD, muay thai, JKD, judo-- then BJJ, and muay thai again. And let me tell you you get weird feints from different kung fu styles, and you can pick up fast kicks from tae kwon do, and you can pick up a pretty decent cross from kenpo (and some wrist grab escapes-- still useful now in my MMA), but overall 97% of my technique comes from boxing, muay thai, wrestling, and brazilian jiu jitsu. Judo is biased against in MMA, but is very useful in real life (where people actually do have coats on similar to training 'gis').

In summary if you want to learn how to do cool stuff, you can do gymnastics. Or I know jackie chan did ballet. Practice jumping tumbling, flying, stretching, twirling, etc. I have nothing against that and I think martial arts that are more art have a place. But if you are talking about the most useful arts to really defend yourself, or to just be the best fighter possible-- I would start with Muay Thai. There is a gym called Toro Muay Thai. There is also Team Oyama's gym a little outside of Chicago. I would start with the stand-up fight game because it 'looks cool', and because in real life against multiple attackers, learning how to strike will be of more use. Then I would learn how to defend a leg pick, or a double leg takedown or a tackle, or better yet I once I learned enough of Muay Thai, I would switch or add Brazilian Jiu-jitsu. Both arts can be adjusted for short stocky fighters, as well as tall fighters, as well as flat footed, less muscular, too muscular, any kind of build really. The more important thing is desire and dedication.

If you just want to get fit, I would start with boxing or kickboxing which gives one a hardcore cardio work out. If you think spiritual growth is important, I would look into Judo perhaps (most gyms emphasize inner-peace and spiritual growth as well as competition).

Anyhow my recommendations to you if you really want to learn something that will help you fight if necessary are:
1.) Muay Thai or San Shou
2.) Brazilian jiu jitsu/wresting/judo

Later if you feel the boxing from muay thai is lacking, you can learn more advanced movements from western boxing gyms.

Anyhow goodluck. Starting at 16 is pretty good. If you were dedicated, you could with persistence and thoughtful training be the few toughest fighters in the world if thats what you wanted. Maybe you're not that hardcore. Even still, getting mugged and beat up on the street when you tried to attack someone's pressure point, or when you started doing a kung fu dance, or when you slapped someone with a tae kwon do kick can be avoided if pick up an art that will get you 97% of self defence. Trust me, if your goal is to learn to fight (most people who start in martial arts have this goal), then when you are older you'll thank me for not easily allowing you to go the animal kungfu route.

reply]
You are totally full of it. Cung le breezed through MMA and took a title belt (Breaking his opponents arm, and no ground fighting) with hardly any fights. 80% or more of what he did comes right out of traditional forms. His use of angles, set ups, spacing, and technique, all traditional Kung Fu. He does San Shou.

San Shou is simply pickled in traditional training and techniques. So is Combat Shui Jiao. Preying Mantis, is a majorly bad a$$ style. The Southern one in particular will mess you up in a heart beat. There are many traditional styles that are extremely good for combat. I will venture to say ALL the real Old school Chinese styles are excellent for fighting. The Animal styles are especially vicious. It's only the modern, "Demilitarized for mass consumption" schools that suk.

[SevenStar]

God, I hate I even looked at this old, hilarious thread, because now I have to jump in again.

RD, you KNOW FULL WELL that cung le was a top level wrestler. So, he had plenty of fight experience. what the hell are you talking about? His wrestling matches and san shou fights gave him more than enough experience to fight in any venue.

Oh, I forgot, we're suppose to think he's only a cma.... oops.

[Lucas]

isnt he a wrestler first, then tkd, then sanshou?