What happened between Vince Black and Li Ziming?

[Tadzio]

Hello folks. I have been looking around here and there in the Kungfuonline forums, checking old and not so old threads. There are a lot of good discussions.
I have read here, and in some other sites, some people mentioning something that happened betwen Vince Black (I assume) and Li Ziming. I think this is old stuff, but I am really curious about it...could someone throw some light here?
I would ask him or pople related to him, but I couldn't locate him in the Net. Anyway, if Mr. Black's name is not involved, sorry.

T.

[wujidude]

Tadzio,
I know certain websites are difficult or impossible to access from China, but try looking at the late August entries on Jarek Szymanski's discussion board at http://homepages.msn.com/SpiritSt/xinyi/index.html

The gist is that Vince Black went over to China and became a student of Li Zi Ming. With the help of Dan Miller (who produced the now-defunct Pa Kua Chang Journal), Black arranged for the translation into English of Li Zi Ming's book on the system of baguazhang that he learned from Liang Zhen Pu. Li died just before (I think) the English translation of his book was published (1993).

The dispute seems to be over whether Li's widow was properly compensated from sales of the English translation. There apparently was litigation in China over the matter, and I believe that Li's widow did prevail. I don't know what specific award (if any) was made.

Li Ziming did authorize the translation of the book into English, and the sale of that translation. The question seems to be more whether his widow or his "estate" (I'm not sure what recognition if any that concept is given under Chinese law) was properly compensated. The references on this forum (as on Jarek's board) to the Li Ziming book arose in the context of whether the author(s) of the book on the Cao branch of Yin Fu baguazhang were properly compensated for the English translation done by (and sold by) Joseph Crandall.

Vince Black is now retired from active teaching, living in Tucson, AZ. He practiced as a doctor of traditional Chinese medicine in addition to teaching martial arts. He studied with Hsu Hong Chi (and others) in Taiwan. Hsu in turn was a leading student of Hong I-hsiang, who in turn was a senior student of Zhang Junfeng (along with Wang Shuchin, the most widely-known teacher of the "internal" martial arts in post-1949 Taiwan).

You might try addressing questions about the specifics of the publication of Li Ziming's book to Dan Miller at info@flatpick.com. Jarek (when he returns to Shanghai)might know more about the Chinese angle: yaleike@hotmail.com. You might also try Tomasz Twardowski in Beijing ttwardowski@yahoo.com.

Hope life and training are going well for you in Taiyuan. Tell me, how do Chinese women respond to a crazy foreign man practicing Chinese martial arts?

[razakdigital]

Hello Tadzio,

How are the people treating you there in China? Are you of darker hue? My reason for asking is I was there for 2 weeks and we had some interesting experiences there. I would like to hear yours

[Tadzio]

Wuji, now the whole thing looks less confusing. What a mess! Copyrights are a very complictes subject only in Us or China alone; Looks like this is more some kind of international copyright problem, which is, I think, very hard to solve.
As for the girls, They don't care to much about how athletic or whatever the guy looks like; they are very romantic and unexperienced, so sweet words is all you need here. Plus, the young generation, at least here in Shanxi, ( I would say in the whole country ) is not into the Internal wushu stuff; 99% of them do Sanda.
Razak, hi. Well, I am not black, but I have an american friend that is. This guy has been living here for 6 years already. As for what happens, well, it's just like I said. People will stop walking just to stare at you, call their friends to look too and just stand there, doing nothing but looking at you. Many of them will just say "hello (hallo)" as you walk, so it's more like you will hear 1000 hellos every single day. Pain in the ass. Patience is a virtue you have to develop around here, or else you wilfight with 10 guys per day on the streets. But if I am angry, I just anser in Chinese or if thy say some bad words, I will also reply in Chinese. They have no defense agaoinst a foreigner coursing them in Chinese.
But talking about black people, the first time I took this friend to my girlfriend's house it was kinda strange...her mom was afraid of him. It took a while to get things running smoothly.
Oh well, China... How about u, would u tell me your experience in Beijing ?

T.

[razakdigital]

Tadzo,

We had the same type of response. We had a lot of people saying hello, or staring at us. The policemen showed us some love. We had a woman with us with locks and let me tell you...

She received more attention then anyone of us...its was crazy! She was star and people wanted to take pictures with her!!! We have some pictures of us in Beijing, but we so many I haven't put them up yet...

I will go back to Beijing next year for another 2 weeks...

We also was in the hood by Tienamam square... it was crazy... but everyone was cool... I received more love and respect there then I did her in US. Now I must admit that it was short stay...but we will see next year...