Old Yang Style..

[denali]

I found an interesting bit of reading in the english translation of Fu Zhongwen's book on Yang Style Taijiquan. .

"Chengfu's elder brother Shaohou (1862-1930), learned the greater portion of his boxing art from his uncle, Banhou. His character was close to the firm and contentious nature of Banhou. His boxing style was originally consistent with Chengfu's. In his later years, Shaohou began to change his form: a high frame with lively steps, movements gathered up small, alternating between fast and slow, hard and crisp fajin, with sudden shouts, eyes glaring brightly, flashing like lightning, a cold smile and cunning expression. . ."
-Gu Liuxin

Does anyone have more information on this? This would seem to indicate that although Yang Chengfu altered his form, concealing the fajin in slower motions, Shaohou also altered his form, in a way, going the opposite direction of Chengfu.

Anyway.. I would be interested if anyone knew any more about the subject..

[wujidude]

Sounds like Shao-hou just started getting off his medications, or needed the dosage adjusted . . .
I think it's difficult to know whether Shao-hou actually changed his form in his later years, or whether he just began to indulge a preference for the Yang small-frame style. It is documented that when Shao-hou was retained along with Cheng-fu to teach at Xu Yusheng's (don't quote me on that spelling) Beijing Physical Education Research Institute (don't quote me on that name)in 1916 and after, that they both taught versions of the medium frame that their father Jianhou had taught. Cheng-fu later expanded this into the large frame that we see him demonstrate in photos from his books ca. 1925 or 1928, and the early 1930s (he had three total books published on taiji). The small frame that Shao-hou performed predates Cheng-fu's large form by at least a generation; Yang Banhou, his uncle, taught this small frame, and it formed the basis for the Chuan Yu/Wu Jianquan style as well. Whether it actually dates back to Yang Luchan is a matter of speculation and oral tradition.

I really like Louis Swain's translation of FZW's book on Yang Cheng-fu's taijiquan. FZW was not following Yang Cheng-fu when he and his brother Shao-hou started teaching in Beijing. FZW really didn't connect with Cheng-fu until after Chengfu had already started modifying his medium frame to the large frame he became famous for. FZW's historical statement may well be correct, but it's not based on first-hand training or experience with Yang Shao-hou. Wu Tu-nan studied with Yang Shao-hou and recalled training in the small form, at a faster pace and with low postures under a table (about 4 feet high) for training purposes.

My own guess is that the small-frame Yang form was always Shao-hou's favorite, given his years of training with his uncle Ban-hou, and in his crotchety later years he just gave up teaching the medium/large frame "for health" and focused on the martial small frame.

I should say this is all based on my reading and conversations with people. I've never actually seen the Yang "small frame" performed. I train in Wu Jianquan's style (among others); I don't practice under a 4-foot table.

[Water Dragon]

Although the variations are infinite, the principle remains the same.

There's a lot to be said for the above quote.

You may take my life, but you will never take my Freedom

[wujidude]

Well, yes and no, WD. For me it depends on how specific the statement of "principle" is. A good portion of the Wu/Li/Yang "classics" are hard for me to directly apply in my form or tuishou practice. Now I recognize that it's mostly due to my own limitations and lack of understanding. But depending on how a principle of practice is stated, the Wu Jianquan style may differ from Chen Lao Jia and that in turn differ from Yang Cheng-fu's style. Principles are absolutely essential, but principles have got to be understandable and useful. And as far as those taiji "classics" go, they may not be universal to all principles of taiji.

My favorite statement of principles remains Yang Cheng-fu's 10 Essentials. But to me (just my individual experience)they don't all apply all the time to Wu Jianquan or Chen Lao Jia styles . . . so they are primarily principles for Yang Cheng-fu's style.

Sometimes I'm not always convinced that baguazhang, xingyiquan and taijiquan even share general principles the way Sun Lutang made them out to be (I think he's the one generally responsible for their public grouping as "internal" arts). But that's just my own limited understanding. It's a whole 'nother thread, a whole other lifetime . . .

[wujidude]

I've got my assignment and I'm off . . . for the foreseeable future. Let me just say one more time best of luck with that new training club, WD. We need more of that kind of approach. Sounds a little like Cartmell's Shen Wu, although I only know what I've read about here and on his board.

Good training.

[Water Dragon]

Stay safe Brother

You may take my life, but you will never take my Freedom