Intrested in any internal arts training methods

[yin lion]

I know a little about the training methods of some tai chi, yin style bagua, and hsing-i. I would like you to add to my knolage if you could to broaden my understanding of how to develope internal energy.


1)My knolage of tai chi is very small. I know of slow form pracitious turning to fast over time. And push hands to develope sticking and following energys. What other ways to train are there I heard that there is a tai chi circle walking method.

2)I know a good deal of bagua yin fu style nothing else. am intrested to know how other styles of bagua train. we train in standing postures, circle walking, and changing(forms or methods).

3) I know little of this hsing-i art I heard that they go from close to long range quickly and attack stright on. The only thing I read on training was there is a lot of standing postures and not too many methods or forms.

please understand that other than bagua I have not really any clue what is correct just rember what I have heard or read.

thanks for your input. :D

you must unlearn what you have learned then and only then will you be wise and have knolage

[dedalus]

I'm not sure what you're asking, so I've tried to write general and specific responses.

The big picture:

All of those styles have two-person training methods (forms, drills, whatever) that supply one step in the progression from martial art to fighting art. They're the "good oil" of any system and aren't often taught to beginners. In my experience, these aspects of an art are more likely to vary from school to school (perhaps because they're tuned to individuals?) and so an enumeration of them would be difficult. Its best to see these methods directly.

The internal arts are deep, and I think "new" training methods can constantly be drawn from information contained in the basic forms and exercises.

In my case:

I train Jiang bagua, and we use bagua qigong, circle walking, circle "sparring", the long circle form (8 palm changes), some posted stepping exercises, a linear fighting form, two person fighting drills, weapons forms and drills and free chi sau as primary features of our training.

[count]

Yin Lion,

You don't by chance study from a White Star instructor where you are?

Basics, basics and basics. The best training tip I could give you from the description of your Yin Style program is, "external training takes away from the internal body, and internal training draws from the external body". To much of either is counter-productive.

For bagua internal I do alot of square and triangle walking and fire and water drills. Bagua Chi Kung training is beneficial. Chan su jin exercises (kun, cheng, tsuan, kuo), circle walking, with the 8 mother palms, with a partner (high middle and low) and alot of basic power drills. Stances and moving stances and forms. For tai chi chuan it's pretty similar. Isolating the postures and lot's of walking, chi kung, chan su jin exercises, pushing hands and forms. But all of this would be pretty useless with out some weight training, endurance training and good old fashioned fight to balance things out. I don't believe you can build the internal and ignore the external or visa versa.

dedalus,

Sounds like you have a good program down there in Australia. Can you elaborate on your bagua chi kung? Also, (I know it's off topic but) what kind of seperate fight training do you guys do? What are some of the "new methods" you have incorporated into your training?ë

Count

Kabooom.com (http://kabooom.com)

Chi Kung International (http://chikungintl.com)


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[dedalus]

Count,

I consider myself very lucky, since I've found an excellent teacher who trains me personally, and most of the students in our small group are quite advanced.

The bagua qigong we train is a bit like taiji three-circle qigong, but with transitions between the 8 palms. One adopts the standard qigong stance and moves through the eight palms (held symmetrically) with the breath as metre. It takes about 45 minutes done correctly, but I usually take fewer breaths in each posture to finish in 15 or 20.

As for the fighting methods we train, I guess there are a few approaches to that. The best (and my favourite) is free chi sau. In addition we might take sequences out of the linear form and drill as 2-person exercises, or practise specific strategies for random attacks (like trying to smash through the on the inside or outside, or trying to sneak through on the inside or outside). We do our best to train fighting responses in an unstructured way, but use drills to develop sensitivity, speed and other technical attributes. This includes the circle-sparring, which is really just a more martial way of polishing inside and outside turns. I guess that what I meant by "new" methods is just that you can always choose a movement contained in the forms and experiment with it in drills or some such. Its a bit like taking (eg) peng in taiji and then applying it to any attack just to see how diverse it is. If techniques ever have applications (which is not a constructive way to think for fighting, in my opinion) then they have an innumerable number.

In addition to all of this is, I suppose, polishing up the forms so that they become fast, tight, and full of fa-jing. And of course everything is built on basic structure and circle walking. Its difficult to tease apart, but I think the basics are so important because in real fighting you have to abandon the notion of "applying techniques" (do you agree?)

Perhaps you could tell me something of your own fighting training methods?

[count]

dedalus,

I totally agree with your post. Basics should be pulled from the context of the forms and drilled with steps and with a partner for angles and power. But of course in a fight things change more quickly and many more variables arise so free sparring is the most important training. Since fighting requires more endurance and strength we train different drills of footwork, (linear, angular and circular, backwards and forwards with long and short changes) drills of breaking through your opponents "shield" and getting inside, outside or around the back and applying techniques, drills for defending against kicks by hooking and throwing from any angle, and so on and so on. These "external" training methods have been key to me for developing internal elements of timing, speed, alignment/angles, and just remaining calm internally in the face of an aggressive attack. Also in understanding the nature of constant change that is bagua. I also agree that falling into the line of thought that there is one application for a given technique will not only limit your ability to advance to higher levels of fighting but also stops internal development.

Your chi kung sounds like a pretty complete system. Do you have separate levels for postures, than mother palms than more dynamic with walking. How about the sounds? I have posted a few times about our chi kung method already but if you are interested drop me an e-mail so I have yours. My e-mail is in my profile.Ö

Count

Kabooom.com (http://kabooom.com)

Chi Kung International (http://chikungintl.com)


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[dedalus]

Count,

I'll drop you an email shortly. If I understand your last question correctly, the palms in the qigong do move through different heights, however we don't perform the circle form at high/middle/low like some lineages.

[yin lion]

I don't study from a white star instructor I train at the Vermont kung fu academy.
thank again

you must unlearn what you have learned then and only then will you be wise and have knolage