Weight lifitng makes your joints weak!!

[Royal Dragon]

Ok, it's allways been my observation that lifitng weights not only strengthened muscles, but also the bones and joints. Infact I remember seeing a TV special that some doctors are actually prescribing weigth lifting to older women with ostio because it increases bone mass.

Today I was working with a friend, and he made the comment that wieghts make the muscles strong, but the joints are weak. His theory is that if you are fighting a big muscular guy, attack the joints because all the weight lifting wears them out and weakens them. He says "Yeah, they are geting big strong muscles, but at what cost? They are damageing thier joints!!"

I personally think he could not be more wrong about this (Improper and Over training injuries aside). What do the rest of you think about his assertions?


Also, unless I am totally off base here, where did this myth that wieght lifting is bad come from? Kung Fu uses plenty of weighted devices...so how is it that "Weights are bad" came to be in many schools?

[The Xia]

I think the myth comes from the fact that so many people who lift weights do so improperly. I think you can compare it to the view that many people have about martial arts. Many people see the abundance of mcdojos and conclude that all martial arts are this way and are therefore a joke. I think that many martial artists who see the abundance of weightlifters who don't stretch and lift properly conclude that all weightlifting is this way and is therefore bad.

[Knifefighter]

LOL @ attacking the joints because weight lifting makes them weaker. Strengthening the muscles increases the stablility of the joints.

[sunfist]

From my sparse knowledge on the subject, muscles function in a balance/counterbalance capacity. Each major muscle group has an equal and opposite group which balances it, and when you isolate and emphasise a single group, the result could be, among other things, joint weakness.

As already stated, this is improper training, but its pretty common overall. Young guys will tend to emphasise the biceps over everything else and so on.

[PangQuan]

sunfist poses a good point.

its highly dependant on how each person trains.

IE: improper focus due to ego and ignorance.

weight training is something that must be done correctly, especially for martial artists involved in high impact arts. which in it self will put a lot of strain on many joints if also not practiced correctly.

you could also say that someone who practices certain arts will have specific weaknesses due to over focus.

[SevenStar]

the weight training is bad thing likely comes from misinformation on the part of many martial artists. they take it that body builder type training is all there is. they know nothing about strength training and assume that all weight training is bad. these same misinformed people likely came up with these other notions also, such as weight training makes you slow and stiff.

[Samurai Jack]

It has been my personal observation that there is a slight grain of truth to the myth that weight-training is bad for the martial artist's flexibility.

Let me explain.

When I do a set of heavy deadlifts for reps, it often happens that my back is sore and stiff for a few days afterword. During that time my spinal flexibility is nil, because moving in my normal range of motion is painful and feels like I'm going to injure myself. I'm phasing out high volume methods because of this fact.

So the caveat is that certain types of weight-training, especially conventional body building methods, make the trainee less flexible in the short term. The key is to explore the methods used by strength athletes instead of bodybuilders. Powerlifting, olympic lifting, and plyometric methods (as used by footballers, for example) can only benefit the martial artist.

As Sevenstar pointed out, bodybuilding isn't the only way, and in my opinion it's probably the wrong way for a martial artist to train.

[BruceSteveRoy]

yeah i can say that i have knee problems to start with and wieght training has helped significantly in correcting it by developing the stabalizing muscles. so i think your friend is misinformed. i would say that whoever mentioned not working opposing muscle groups makes an excellent point. i see ppl neglect this all the time. its like a guy i know who does a crazy amount of push ups everyday but he never works out his biceps. while he doesnt get joint pain he does tend to get pulls and cramps in his arm. i told him why and he just shrugged. guess there is just no getting through to some people. the other thing to consider is their form. there are tons of weight training exercises that can easily be done incorrectly that will destroy your joints. whether bc you have bad form or are trying too much weight. for instance squats. if you do them too low you can do damage to the knees. military press can do damage to the shoulder. but if done correctly it shouldnt weaken anything. if anyone is interested the best weight training book i have ever read is

http://www.amazon.com/New-Encyclopedia-Modern-Bodybuilding-Updated/dp/0684857219/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-4560785-2812131?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1173966893&sr=8-1

it talks about form and explains how to do tons and tons of different exercises correctly.

[MasterKiller]

the weight training is bad thing likely comes from misinformation on the part of many martial artists. they take it that body builder type training is all there is. they know nothing about strength training and assume that all weight training is bad. these same misinformed people likely came up with these other notions also, such as weight training makes you slow and stiff.

To compound the issue, these same people often cream themselves over getting stone locks and other "traditional" strength-training devices.

[Black Jack II]

This is not true. Research shows that lifting weights creates denser bones and builds stronger muscles that help stabilize and protect joints. One study, published in the Journal of Rheumatology, followed two groups of individuals with a diagnosis of osteoarthritis over fours months.

One group followed their regular routine. The other group performed simple home-based weight bearing exercise, including such things as squats and leg extensions. Those who performed simple weight training exercises reported a 43 percent reduction in pain and a 44 percent improvement in physical functioning (walking, stair climbing, sitting, and standing) than compared to the non-exercising group.

I think a lot of the weight lifting is bad for you nonsense in traditional martial arts comes from arrogant people who have the feeling that there system holds the answers to every question in the universe, when in fact they don't have a flippin techincal clue to stand on in a lot of regards.

I remeber a comment about a famous ying jow pai grandmaster who only does 40 grams of protien a day, a nutritionist friend replied that for this person's body weight and activities it is a absurdly low number, out jumps a fanboy who screams....how dare you say what is to low of a protien amount for her, she is a grandmaster and knows what she is doing.......:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Royal Dragon]

40 GRAMS EHY? That is like my one friend who says she never sleeps more than 6 hours a nite, when I have seen her sleep more than 9 when I have spent the nite at her place.....every time I spent the nite there....

[BruceSteveRoy]

maybe your friend is dislexic and transposes all of her 9's as 6's :D

[Chief Fox]

I'm convinced that people who say weight lifting is bad for you are really just people who don't want to lift weights and they use "it's bad for you" as an excuse not to do it.

Also, it's well know that Bruce Lee injured his back while weight lifting so now it's bad for you.

I run a lot. I was at this race and I'm chatting with this dude. I explained that I was just getting over a knee injury and was doing a lot of squats. He quickly says that "squats are bad for your knees". I was kinda stunned by his ignorance. Finally this guy next to us says, actually squats are probably the best thing you can do for your knees. After that I just kinda walked away.

[xcakid]

That depends:

Your joints and tendons work with your muscles, but in a supporting role. So if you over train you can tear dislocate and overall weaken joints and tendons.
Ex: You could possibly bench 300lbs. from the start. However, your elbow/rotator cuff/tendon in you elbow, may not yet be able to handle such a load. So rather than strengthening it, you are damaging them.

Now if you gradually increase the weight through time and work up to 300lbs. You are building your muscles in conjunction with your tendons. Thereby strengthening them.

[SevenStar]

as stated earlier, we are talking about improper training and over training.

[Royal Dragon]

That depends:

Your joints and tendons work with your muscles, but in a supporting role. So if you over train you can tear dislocate and overall weaken joints and tendons.
Ex: You could possibly bench 300lbs. from the start. However, your elbow/rotator cuff/tendon in you elbow, may not yet be able to handle such a load. So rather than strengthening it, you are damaging them.

Now if you gradually increase the weight through time and work up to 300lbs. You are building your muscles in conjunction with your tendons. Thereby strengthening them.

Reply]
I'm not strong enugh to llift something heavy enough to ripp anything. And if I was to take lifting seriously, anything that WOULD rip if I was strong enough, would increase in strangth along with the muscles anyway...unless i was doi'n roids or something that threw the system artificailly out of balance.

I suppose if I did something reptedly that made a minor tear, and that slowly grew I could, but I am too lazy to ever train weights that hard

[Black Jack II]

These martial mythos tend to kinda all fall in a line, someone should list them.

You know how they go...

Weightlifting slows you down.
You don't need a weapon
Have faith in your system.
Sparring builds bad habits

yadda...yadda...yadda

[Royal Dragon]

I think the "Sparring is bad" one is really a distortion on the "Sparring too early" is bad.

You really need some tools to spar with before you do it, or you just end up unproductively flailing. It's better to learn a small handfull of techniques along with the footwork and basic positioning and timing skills through pre arranged partner drills before you jump in and spar.

I submit a cycle of learning several new skills/techniques followd by pre arranged practice of the new techniques and finally sparring with them should be a consistant, and repeted regimant.

Learn 3 techniques, 2man drill, spar/fight...learn 3 new ones, 2 man drill, spar/fight...repete.

[Black Jack II]

You really need some tools to spar with before you do it, or you just end up unproductively flailing

This makes sense but not in the fashion you see some tradional people advocating. We have all heard about people waiting for spar for absurd lengths fo time.

[Royal Dragon]

Yes, I agree here.

I think that a few months of heavy basics, and memorising a number of fundementall techniques are all you need before sparring can be productive.

Some schools say sparring is only for black belts.....which is arguably worse than sparring day one.

Some may argue with me, but I think going more than 3 months without some sort of free sparring is waiting too long. The only exception may be specific internal styles because they rely so heavily on thier specific body mechanics to function properly, which do take quite a bit of time to develop.

[xcakid]

I believe the whole "sparring is bad" thing is based on point sparring. Sure it helps on speed and timing. But a real fight is fluid and continious and its not point sparring. When I was teaching I discouraged my students from competing in a lot of tournaments that only had point sparring matches(these were mainly "hard style" tournaments). Give bad training if you have to stop once you get a point. Continious free fighting is the was to go.

Another drill I like with my current school that the sifu makes us do, is to do our defensive manuevers/one step drill in motion. Of course this is after practicing it for months static. So rather than just step forward punch and the defender does his specified technic as in static training. We move around like we are sparring, throw either a left or right hand and the defender has to react, while in motion, with his/her specified technic. This is great conditioning for sparring. It trains you to gauge distance. Trains reflexes. Lastly it emphasizes control of technic.

Sparring is bad only on two instances in my opinion: 1. starting too early without the proprer basis. 2. doing point sparring.

[David Jamieson]

attack anyone at their joints and you can break structure, break structure and yiou kill force, kill force and you dominate. doesn't matter if the dude lifts weight or not.

lifting in a controlled manner is more effective than throwing weight you can't control around. building functional strength is more valuable than body sculpting for a fighter, or for someone looking to have usefulness from their training.

but yeah, if you do anything incorrectly, you'll not get much out o it and the possibility of damaging yourself is there. I know more than a couple of guys who have over trained and now suffer because of it. i also know people who train and have trained properly and have a better physical quality of life than others.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

Weight lifting is a pretty vague term. Some people lift in bodybuilding methods, others in power lifting methods, others for simple strentgh training. Personally I do low weight, high reps which works well for me. It is pretty laughable and ignorant to say weight lifting is bad for your martial arts training.

[David Jamieson]

"martial arts" is even more vague as a term in that respect. :p

[AJM]

I agree that improper weight lifting is bad. Weight lifting in general is one of the best exercises anyone can do in my opinion. I personally have to be carefull because I am strong enough to tear ligiments.

[Ban-Hou]

It is pretty laughable and ignorant to say weight lifting is bad for your martial arts training.

I understand what your saying, but how could it be ignorant to say that? I'm not challenging or anything. Just asking.

[Royal Dragon]

I understand what your saying, but how could it be ignorant to say that? I'm not challenging or anything. Just asking.

Reply]
This is one of those questions that *IF* it has to be asked in the firstplace, the asker would not understand the answer.

[ittokaos]

Me like so many others on this thread believe that lifting incorrectly is bad. However weight lifting can be beneficial to your training regiment. As for the thing on flexibility, that has to do with stretches and how you lift. I know about the flexibility issue first hand. In my high school days all I was worried about was getting stronger and the only way I thought I could do that was to lift more than I should. I did get stronger but I lost a lot of my flexbility. So much so that I use to joke about how I was so buff that I couldn't wipe my ass. (I know that we've all seen those guys before) Anyway, Ive found that if one decides to lift weights they have to understand that just lifting weights will not help you in other areas. Joint loosening and stretches are key to any training regiment and more so (i my experience) in weight lifting. So, if you plan I lifting(i recommend) be safe and be smart. I hope this helps.


Have a good one.

WF

[Royal Dragon]

Back to the comment on being Ignorant. The word ignorant mwans one does not know said knowledge, so if one says that lifting wieghts is bad for martial arts, that is due to being ignorant of the facts.

ANYTHING that makes you strong is good for martial arts. now, *Some* things are better than others. For example, the body builder does get stronger, but he's not going to be as strong as the guy doing weights for strength training., so the Strength training is "Better" for martial arts then Body building, but both are better than not doing anything.

As for getting tight, in extreme cases, especially with body builders that does happen, BUT those are guys who lift heavy, often and do nothing else. A martial artist literally does not have the time to lift that much. Also, martial arts is full of flexibility increasing activities, from forms, to stretching, and various other range of motion exercises. It woould be vertually impossible for a dedicated martial artists to get tight lifting wieghts.

Now, it is also *Proven* scientifically that anything that develops the muscles, also develops the joints (So long as you are not over training). So the comments that weightlifters have weak joints is untrue. In some cases if they are obssesive about body sculpting, thier joints may be tight, and more suseptible to joint locks, but it would take an extremely dedicate regime focused ONLY on lifting over a long period of time to develop that. You wouldn't have time for martial arts in that case. And if you did do that, your joints would become much stronger, just as your muscles and bones do. Also, Raw strength helps one to resist against joint locks as well. It's MUCH harder to get a joint into the rigth positin for aaa lock on a strong person who is resisting heavily, than a weak one who does not have the strength to do so.

The other thing to think about. if you are faced with strength of muscle, and you plan to attack the joints, wouldn't someone who is muscualrly weak be even easier to attack the joints? The answer is of course yes. Why? Because the guy who has done weigth training has much stronger joints than the guy who didn't, and if HIS joints are attackable, then the weaker persons are even more so.

[Black Jack II]

No one has really mentioned a nice side effect of bodybuilding besides the vast amount of physical data one can find on the net.

Aesthetic Intimidation.

[Royal Dragon]

I'm glad you made the comment about weight training on the net. If you Google strength training you can find quite a few sites with great information on weight training for strength. I'd also google Pavel, and Kettle bells too.

This is a subject every martial artist should be well researched in. Especially since many schools do not teach the weight and strength training methods of thier systems. We really have to fill that hole ourselves by looking at the physical demands we are required to perform, and the various strength development methods avaliable to us that would work to fill the gap.

[Fu-Pow]

The problem with lifting weights for internal martial arts is that it creates incontinuities in the body's musculo-skeletal system. That means some muscles get short/tense and some get elongated/stretchted as a result. Its not weightlifting per se but any exercises that has discontinous tension.

If you look at the human body, its not the muscles alone that hold it upright. The body is a big biotensegrity structure. There must be tonus in the muscles but the tonus must be continuous throughout the structure to maintain the tensegrity.

The bones, water and connective tissue are the compressive elements in the tension network and the muscles are the tension elements. So you have a balance of forces pulling in and down (muscles) and up and out (connective tissue, water, bones). If you start introducing extra tension in a certain point in the network you start messing up the balance.

I think doing whole body exercises can be helpful though and if done with the right intention and structure. For example, I do Hindu pushups and Turkish get-ups. Those involve the whole body and you can distribute the tension across the body.

Here's a picture on this cover of a xing yi guy doing what look like Hindu pushups:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0865681740/ref=sib_dp_pt/104-2485349-8455140#reader-link

Just the perspective of a future science journalist who happens to study Taiji.

FP

[Royal Dragon]

If you are an internal artists, then you need to devise a weight lifting system that loads your internal mechanics and works the whole body in unison. Then you don't have those issues.

The bones, water and connective tissue are the compressive elements in the tension network and the muscles are the tension elements. So you have a balance of forces pulling in and down (muscles) and up and out (connective tissue, water, bones). If you start introducing extra tension in a certain point in the network you start messing up the balance.

Reply]
I am not even sure what you are saying here. Muscles contract, that is all they do. Connective tissue, water and bones do not create anything let alone up and out movements. They just connect stuff, or support the surrounding tissues that rest on them. Water is just wet, and doesn't do anything in relation to movement.

[Fu-Pow]

If you are an internal artists, then you need to devise a weight lifting system that loads your internal mechanics and works the whole body in unison. Then you don't have those issues.

The bones, water and connective tissue are the compressive elements in the tension network and the muscles are the tension elements. So you have a balance of forces pulling in and down (muscles) and up and out (connective tissue, water, bones). If you start introducing extra tension in a certain point in the network you start messing up the balance.

Reply]
I am not even sure what you are saying here. Muscles contract, that is all they do. Connective tissue, water and bones do not create anything let alone up and out movements. They just connect stuff, or support the surrounding tissues that rest on them. Water is just wet, and doesn't do anything in relation to movement.

It's not up and out movements, its the opposite force that the weight of your body generates in the field of gravity. It travels up through your CTS, water, bones. Your muscles provide the tension the holds the whole thing together.

FP

[Royal Dragon]

Ah, i got it now. It just the way you worded it before made no sense to me. Thanks for the clarification.

[Knifefighter]

It's not up and out movements, its the opposite force that the weight of your body generates in the field of gravity. It travels up through your CTS, water, bones. Your muscles provide the tension the holds the whole thing together.

Complete and utter B.S.

Take an anatomy and physiology course.

[Fu-Pow]

Respecftully disagree.

No one can really argue about the ground reaction force. For every force generated there is an equal and opposite force generated. I believe Newton said that. Anything in the field of earths gravitational pull that is also in contact with its surface is going to generate a downward force ie F=ma, in this case a=gravity. Therefore an upward force is generated up through the body.

Whether you do IMA, MMA or EMA this much is true.

What differs in each case is how one channels that ground reaction force. Is it primarily through the bones, water and connective tissue or is it by "holding on" with the muscles.

FP

[Charles T Rose]

I believe the term you are searching for is tensegrity...google it

[Becca]

The problem with lifting weights for internal martial arts is that it creates incontinuities in the body's musculo-skeletal system. That means some muscles get short/tense and some get elongated/stretchted as a result. Its not weightlifting per se but any exercises that has discontinous tension.

The problems you are talking about are only a problem for those who never use thier body the way a martial artist would. Even hard core lifters are starting to get the message. If you brouse the medical help forums at most body building sites, you'll find discussions of yoga vs. tai chi for help with muscular recovery and joint wellness. :)

[cjurakpt]

The problem with lifting weights for internal martial arts is that it creates incontinuities in the body's musculo-skeletal system. That means some muscles get short/tense and some get elongated/stretchted as a result. Its not weightlifting per se but any exercises that has discontinous tension.
anything can create "incontinuties" as you say - the way that you walk, sit, sleep, drive, work, etc. are all factors that can contribute to this; lifting weights is no different - like anything, it is the way in which you do it that will create a certain type of results; for example, if you hyper train your biceps, pecs and lats, you will be more prone to a flexion-biased posture anteriorly, which will create an imbalance relative to the anti-gravity extensor muscles (e.g. - lower traps, serratus, rhoboids, triceps, rotator cuff) which already tend to be inhibited / overstretched, given that we are already flexor biased to begin with, and that structurally we are not optimally adapted to live upright in gravity; so this can cause problems; on the other hand, if you emphasize strengthening of the anti-grav extensors, you work towards assiting vertical function in gravity; of course, you could still do those exercises "incorrectly", but at least you are not "feeding" flexor muscles that are already predisposed to hypertonicity


If you look at the human body, its not the muscles alone that hold it upright. The body is a big biotensegrity structure. There must be tonus in the muscles but the tonus must be continuous throughout the structure to maintain the tensegrity.
but at the same time, the organism, being non-linear and adaptative at a certain level, is able to compensate for this to varying degrees without there being any symptomatic signs of dysfunction...


The bones, water and connective tissue are the compressive elements in the tension network and the muscles are the tension elements. So you have a balance of forces pulling in and down (muscles) and up and out (connective tissue, water, bones). If you start introducing extra tension in a certain point in the network you start messing up the balance.
true, but again, at what point does this occur? it sounds nice in theory, but what are the pragmatics? this is the trick of figuring out what impact a given exercise has on a given individual; also, there are tensional elements within the CTS: tensegrity is based on continuous tension / discontinuous compression, and CT has both - this is probably what allows for compensation of agonist / antagonist force couple imbalances (Vladimir Janda, MD and Shirley Sahrman ,PhD, PT are two of the most widely recognized "authorities" in regards to this concept); so again, weight training per se is not the issue, it's what you train and how, which is a bit more complex to figure out and typically, at least with a clinicl population, needs to be individualized to varying degrees


I think doing whole body exercises can be helpful though and if done with the right intention and structure. For example, I do Hindu pushups and Turkish get-ups. Those involve the whole body and you can distribute the tension across the body.
it's true that some types of movement / exercise is more conducie to this concept: Feldenkreis, Alexander Technique, Laban, Arika Gym, etc. - all attempts to do what you are suggesting in various contexts; obviously, taiji is useful, in terms of it being a slow-moving practice at first, which allows you the opportunity to "observe' what it feels like to move while keeping the relative net tensions in the system equal


Here's a picture on this cover of a xing yi guy doing what look like Hindu pushups:
nice - he's working on lengthening hamstrings, opening up pelvic floor, and stretching hip flexors: all good stuff from a postural integrity perspective

[Fu-Pow]

anything can create "incontinuties" as you say - the way that you walk, sit, sleep, drive, work, etc. are all factors that can contribute to this; lifting weights is no different - like anything, it is the way in which you do it that will create a certain type of results; for example, if you hyper train your biceps, pecs and lats, you will be more prone to a flexion-biased posture anteriorly, which will create an imbalance relative to the anti-gravity extensor muscles (e.g. - lower traps, serratus, rhoboids, triceps, rotator cuff) which already tend to be inhibited / overstretched, given that we are already flexor biased to begin with, and that structurally we are not optimally adapted to live upright in gravity; so this can cause problems; on the other hand, if you emphasize strengthening of the anti-grav extensors, you work towards assiting vertical function in gravity; of course, you could still do those exercises "incorrectly", but at least you are not "feeding" flexor muscles that are already predisposed to hypertonicity

Well articulated.



but at the same time, the organism, being non-linear and adaptative at a certain level, is able to compensate for this to varying degrees without there being any symptomatic signs of dysfunction...

Yes. However, repetitive "adaptation" will lead to a less efficient but still functioning organism.




true, but again, at what point does this occur? it sounds nice in theory, but what are the pragmatics? this is the trick of figuring out what impact a given exercise has on a given individual; also, there are tensional elements within the CTS:

I certainly don't have the whole thing worked out. I'm just trying to look at something that at first appears totally "mystical" from a rational perspective...no chi balls!!!


tensegrity is based on continuous tension / discontinuous compression, and CT has both - this is probably what allows for compensation of agonist / antagonist force couple imbalances (Vladimir Janda, MD and Shirley Sahrman ,PhD, PT are two of the most widely recognized "authorities" in regards to this concept); so again, weight training per se is not the issue, it's what you train and how, which is a bit more complex to figure out and typically, at least with a clinicl population, needs to be individualized to varying degrees

Agree. I don't think weight training in itself is not "bad." It depends on the context. If you are
in PT or rehab then you may need weight lifting to build up an injured muscle. And I think for any healthy person that exercises that are more "whole body" can be good to improve the overall tonus of muscles.

However, as an "internal" martial artist you should definitely avoid weight lifting that is aimed at enlarging or strengthening a particular muscle or muscle group. This creates tensional imbalance.



it's true that some types of movement / exercise is more conducie to this concept: Feldenkreis, Alexander Technique, Laban, Arika Gym, etc. - all attempts to do what you are suggesting in various contexts; obviously, taiji is useful, in terms of it being a slow-moving practice at first, which allows you the opportunity to "observe' what it feels like to move while keeping the relative net tensions in the system equal

Yes I'm interested in those movement studies because they seem to be saying
the same things as the Taiji classics but from a western perspective.



nice - he's working on lengthening hamstrings, opening up pelvic floor, and stretching hip flexors: all good stuff from a postural integrity perspective

It looks like a good book. Has anyone here read it?

[cjurakpt]

Yes. However, repetitive "adaptation" will lead to a less efficient but still functioning organism.
of course; the question is, at what point does someone notice that this is the case? I mean, if there is an imbalance, what does it take to "feel" this before you are symptomatic? this is what, to me, is the best form of therapy - training people to truly notice what this is like before they have pain...a very interesting process indeed...


Agree. I don't think weight training in itself is not "bad." It depends on the context. If you are in PT or rehab then you may need weight lifting to build up an injured muscle. And I think for any healthy person that exercises that are more "whole body" can be good to improve the overall tonus of muscles.
well, first off, I don't really believe in "strengthening" an injured muscle per se (that's a whole other discussion); I also agree that integrated movement activities are useful - although doing things in relative isolation can be of great benefit as well - it just depends on what you are trying to do and where the person is at - some people are better off isolating because trying to do whole body is too hard for them (better to have them lie down and pay attention to their breathing to start with anyway);


However, as an "internal" martial artist you should definitely avoid weight lifting that is aimed at enlarging or strengthening a particular muscle or muscle group. This creates tensional imbalance.
well, i'd say that for anyone - I believe in letting the function dictate the structure (in this case) - anything else on top of that is to augment or accommodate (very vague concept, I know); although, consider that, it is actually be possible for someone to do this and to sacrifice some of the "balance" to have some enhanced functional strength, and in the long run, they probably wouldn't notice any detrimental effects: we do have a certain amount of leeway in the system to accommodate "imbalance" without any real negative outcome...


Yes I'm interested in those movement studies because they seem to be saying the same things as the Taiji classics but from a western perspective.
well, Feldenkreis was a judoka who worked personally with Kano, Alexander seems to have been influenced by something Eastern (AT Rule #1: the head should be "free and away" - sound familiar?), and Arika gym has some Asian influence I think - nothing is pure...