Kids and uniforms

[Oso]

starting to have a big problem with kids not showing up with uniforms...we don't have a bunch of fancy stuff...just pants, tshirt and sash.

What do ya'll do? Make the kid sit out of class if they don't have their uniform?

[TenTigers]

exactly. Mention it to the parents that they will not be allowed to participate without a uniform. They need to learn responsibility, and martial arts training touches on that as it is a form of discipline. If the monm says she does not have time, tell her to find the time. No ifs ands or buts. You should not be telling an adult that they need to do this ahead of time. Too much hand holding.

[TenTigers]

btw-if the kid just spilled grape juice or spagetti sauce on the uniform that day and it is in the wash is one thing. But then you give them the "wear the uniform just for Kung-Fu" speech.

[Water-quan]

starting to have a big problem with kids not showing up with uniforms...we don't have a bunch of fancy stuff...just pants, tshirt and sash.

What do ya'll do? Make the kid sit out of class if they don't have their uniform?


I say, why are you wearing that uniform? Aren't you an individual?

World's dumbest ideas number three: people in uniform!

[Fen]

For all ages in class...
Have them hold up the wall or ceiling...

Hold up a wall...
Horse stance, back to it about 8in from with both hands out in a Q-sou...

Hold up the ceiling...
Same as above but arms above the head, plams to ceiling...

1st time offenders... 10min and have to go to the end of the line up as if they are a newbe...

2nd time offenders... 30min and have to go to the end of the line up as if they are a newbe...

3rd time offenders... wall or ceiling for the hole class time...

4th same as the 3rd... and so on...

~Jason

[David Jamieson]

actually, the idea of a uniform is to get rid of swollen ego and the whole individuality for a moment to help one be conscious of working together towards a goal that is good for all.

thinking about "me" all the time is not conducive to a well functioning community and breeds contempt amongst people for others.

byt wearing uniforms we allow ourselves the opportunity to remove that selfish attitude and learn what it is to be part of community.

If the student does not wish to participate, then by all means don't allow them to participate.

you carry a family name don't you? That is a sign of where you come from and where you fit in and that others fit with you. It is an outward gesture and has nothing to do with taking away from the individual attributes.

Think of it this way:

A mob of people is no more of an army than a pile of building materials is a house.

discipline in outward gestures and adherance to them signifies discipline of body and mind. If a person cannot make such small gestures, then they cannot come to attain personal kungfu which will mark them as a strong individual. It all works together.

recognize. :)

[Fen]

Well Put... David...:)

~Jason

[Oso]

TT, all those talks have been given...the biggest problem is that I think it's the parent's fault as much as the kid. I totally agree about the responsibility thing and that is one of the lesson's we are supposed to be teaching for sure. Not so ironically, the parents of the specific children are not so great in the realm of responsibility...I guess I should be charging double to teach the parents responsibility too. ;)

Part of it is image as well. If the floor doesn't look like a cohesive unit to the parents standing outside the front window...

It's time to lay down the law, I know that. Just wondering if anyone had any creative suggestions.

Fen, I do make them go to the back of the line as it is.

WQ: who are you kidding? do you not wear any sort of branded clothing or shoe or car?

Well said, DJ.

[Fen]

Oso...

If you add what David said to the holding the wall they will not for get it... especially if they do it 3 time or more... It works realy well in my class... Good luck and fell free to pm me if need...

Respect to the kwoon and it's staff is a must... If they can not comeply then out they go...

***If not start giveing them new uniform and makeing them pay for it... hehehe...

~Jason

[TenTigers]

I would write a letter, make sure all students and parends receive it, before laying down the law. This way it is not as if you let it go by and then all of a sudden, "Punished MY CHILD!!!" =get it? This works, as I have done it in my school.

[Oso]

I totally agree it's a must. This is just another transitional thing for my school. We've hovered at 2-4 kids for years and now regularly have 9 lining up and more inquiries than ever before. It's the older kids unfortunately and it's my fault for not being more strict before. And, there is a huge logistical problem for these kids that I won't get in to here...I do know that there is more than just forgetfulness or lack of responsibility at play here. but, irrelevent of that, I've got to get them in line.

thanks all...except you water-quan :D

[SanHeChuan]

build lockers and make'm rent them out to keep thier uniforms in, and make'm by two uniforms so one can be washed while the others at the school.

Or just do what I'd do and beat'em with a stick!

[neilhytholt]

actually, the idea of a uniform is to get rid of swollen ego and the whole individuality for a moment to help one be conscious of working together towards a goal that is good for all.

thinking about "me" all the time is not conducive to a well functioning community and breeds contempt amongst people for others.

byt wearing uniforms we allow ourselves the opportunity to remove that selfish attitude and learn what it is to be part of community.


Yes, ****it, why the hell do we allow people to wear the kind of clothes they want to? We should make everyone wear the same darn thing every day so they learn that they shouldn't be individuals.

Heck, why should we talk about 'personal freedoms'? Just make the government give everybody a job and decide where to live.

That's it ... I finally figured out what it is. You're all communists in disguise.

WHY NOT LET THEM WEAR WHATEVER THEY WANT AS LONG AS THEY GOT PANTS AND SHIRT?

I got news for you, Oso, the reason they probably don't have a uniform is they were too busy to get it with everything else going on.

[Oso]

TT, already written. :D It's also in the handbooks. But, a short note is going out.

SHC: not enough room for lockers. Only 2000 sf total. 1600 on the floor and 400 that is combined office, storage, bathroom and shelving for student bags when they are in class...and for the adults to wait for kids and women's classes to be over at 6:30...I'm directing traffic now as 9 kids and 15 adults try to pass each other through one doorway :D


and, while we're on kids...anyone else have a bunch of f a r t monsters? all my boys seem to f a r t about every 5 minutes during class...today was crazy smelly.

[neilhytholt]

It's pretty sad when people worry more about uniforms and talking about keeping people from learning just because of a uniform.

You know, why do you even bother teaching CMA?

Might as well just teach TKD. They got uniforms, they got forms, they got kickboxing sparring with big puffy gloves.

[Oso]

WHY NOT LET THEM WEAR WHATEVER THEY WANT AS LONG AS THEY GOT PANTS AND SHIRT?

because I'm trying to run a commercial school, dvmb@ss. 99% of the parents looking to get their kids in to a martial art are not interested in the martial arts. they are trying to get their kids more disciplined (granted a job they should be doing but if they were...most schools would be out of business). if I need to explain the rest of that logic chain to you...


I got news for you, Oso, the reason they probably don't have a uniform is they were too busy to get it with everything else going on.

no sh!t sherlock...there you go again not reading everything in a post. I said that I knew that the kids in question, and their parents, were faced with logistical issues...which is why I didn't crack down sooner.

[Oso]

It's pretty sad when people worry more about uniforms and talking about keeping people from learning just because of a uniform.

You know, why do you even bother teaching CMA?

Might as well just teach TKD. They got uniforms, they got forms, they got kickboxing sparring with big puffy gloves.


LOL...you obviously don't know the history of CMA since the turn of the 20th century...which, basically, is about as far back as most of what we teach goes nowadays.

if you hadn't already proved yourself an idiot on this forum, I'd be irritated. :)

[neilhytholt]

because I'm trying to run a commercial school, *******. 99% of the parents looking to get their kids in to a martial art are not interested in the martial arts. they are trying to get their kids more disciplined (granted a job they should be doing but if they were...most schools would be out of business). if I need to explain the rest of that logic chain to you...

no sh!t sherlock...there you go again not reading everything in a post. I said that I knew that the kids in question, and their parents, were faced with logistical issues...which is why I didn't crack down sooner.

I didn't read ALL the posts ... only up to David Jamieson's communist uniform ego whatever ... sorry for not going through every fricking response.

This is just too sad. I guess it's no wonder that most schools I wound up in had about 5 hardcore guys in them. Where's Kung Fu San Soo when you need it? None of this teaching kid nonsense.

Oh, well.

Here's an idea ... they come in without a uniform, they get painted green ... that would be conformity. :)

[TenTigers]

That;s why we do Kung-Fu instead of TKD, no bare feet, insence, jow, and Tiger Balm-our schools smell GOOD! No need to worry about ****-monsters-just light more insence.;)
We have lockers, but if you put a sweaty t-shirt in a locker, you will have an ideal breeding ground for all sorts of nasties,let alone the stench.

Ok, this one time at band camp....years ago, when I was an instructor, Personal Trainer at Bally's/Jack laLanne one of the instructors hung his bathing suit on the hook in the showers and left it there-he said overnight. He put it on the next day before taking a swim and a jacuzzi, and ended up with crabs. He shaved his entire body. He is very, very Italian, meaning black, thick hair, all over his body. Total sweater. We told him he could have simply bought Quell."Now you tell me?!" he sez. LOL. Do you have any idea what it looks (and probably feels) like when those hairs grow in? He looked like he was covered in splinters!

[neilhytholt]

LOL...you obviously don't know the history of CMA since the turn of the 20th century...which, basically, is about as far back as most of what we teach goes nowadays.

if you hadn't already proved yourself an idiot on this forum, I'd be irritated. :)

CMA historically never had uniforms. People trained in their street clothes. The 'kung fu' uniform is just a bad imitation of Chinese street clothes.

[neilhytholt]

Ok, this one time at band camp....years ago, when I was an instructor, Personal Trainer at Bally's/Jack laLanne one of the instructors hung his bathing suit on the hook in the showers and left it there-he said overnight. He put it on the next day before taking a swim and a jacuzzi, and ended up with crabs. He shaved his entire body. He is very, very Italian, meaning black, thick hair, all over his body. Total sweater. We told him he could have simply bought Quell."Now you tell me?!" he sez. LOL. Do you have any idea what it looks (and probably feels) like when those hairs grow in? He looked like he was covered in splinters!

Gym floors, showers, etc., are nasty. One thing about not going to martial arts schools anymore is a total avoidance of that crap. (Or should I say crab or clap? LOL)

[TenTigers]

let's clarify that a bit for accuracy. TCMA didn't have uniforms-until it was taught openly to the public. Then there were uniforms. We are only going back a few generations in traditional systems for this. Look at the old pics, theses schools had specific dress that was not street clothes. But military had uniforms. And DJ addresses the reasons for this in a Kung-Fu Gwoon as well.

[neilhytholt]

Here, Oso, I got it.

Just keep a huge supply of T-shirts and require any kid that doesn't have one to buy a new one to train in for $10 or something. Like Fen said, but not an entire new uniform, just the top.

$$$ for you, discipline for them. Everybody wins.

[neilhytholt]

let's clarify that a bit for accuracy. TCMA didn't have uniforms-until it was taught openly to the public. Then there were uniforms. We are only going back a few generations in traditional systems for this. Look at the old pics, theses schools had specific dress that was not street clothes. But military had uniforms. And DJ addresses the reasons for this in a Kung-Fu Gwoon as well.

Well, I got pics back 80 years ago in a couple of lineages and guess what -- no uniforms. A lot of time they trained in restaurants after closing and guess what -- they wore whatever they had on.

I don't know what you guys are talking about publicly ... you mean after 1965 or something?

[Fen]

It's pretty sad when people worry more about uniforms and talking about keeping people from learning just because of a uniform.

You know, why do you even bother teaching CMA?

Might as well just teach TKD. They got uniforms, they got forms, they got kickboxing sparring with big puffy gloves.

NOT!!!

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

~Jason

[Oso]

I didn't read ALL the posts ... only up to David Jamieson's communist uniform ego whatever ... sorry for not going through every fricking response.

then stop replying to threads when you don't know the entire context because you haven't bothered to read everything.

This is just too sad. I guess it's no wonder that most schools I wound up in had about 5 hardcore guys in them. Where's Kung Fu San Soo when you need it? None of this teaching kid nonsense.

kids have been taught at least the basics of martial arts pretty much...forever.

Oh, well.

Here's an idea ... they come in without a uniform, they get painted green ... that would be conformity. :)

ok, it's not conformity, it's the expectation of most every student and potential student that there is a uniform of sorts.

and DJ has a great point about the ego...it's a tenet of buddhism and consequently wu de that ego be sublimated. that's hard for most people at best.


CMA historically never had uniforms. People trained in their street clothes. The 'kung fu' uniform is just a bad imitation of Chinese street clothes.

correct, which is why we don't use them...correction, we've used some in tournaments in the past but we've voted to stop since we don't ever train in them.

however, I'm pretty sure that all those shoalin dudes wore specific color robes and shaved their heads for some reason...

...and, I think that there was a uniform of sorts at the chin woo/jing wu...

and, how far back must something go to be counted a tradtion? it's certainly been a tradition in the US since the mid 70's that frog tops be worn as a 'kung fu' uniform. and since there have been several articles and comments internationally about the US being the savior/repository of TCMA...we could validly create any tradtion we wanted. :p

besides, jujitsu/judo/karate uniforms are really samurai underwears :D

[neilhytholt]

Anyways, you know what? A lot of you accuse me of saying stupid things.

Well you're the ones watering down techniques, training for 'character' rather than self defense, wearing uniforms.

NONE of which were traditional in average training of CMA. Military and temples might have worn a 'uniform' but they wore a uniform ALL THE TIME. Like I said, they wore their street clothes. Even karate didn't use uniforms until Funakoshi and modern karate 100 years ago.

It's pretty obvious who here is saying the stupid things.

[neilhytholt]

it's certainly been a tradition in the US since the mid 70's that frog tops be worn as a 'kung fu' uniform. and since there have been several articles and comments internationally about the US being the savior/repository of TCMA...we could validly create any tradtion we wanted. :p

besides, jujitsu/judo/karate uniforms are really samurai underwears :D

I hate to think mid '70s counts as tradition. I thought tradition had to go through at least one generation.

[Oso]

Anyways, you know what? A lot of you accuse me of saying stupid things.

really? are you really such a megalomaniac that you don't wonder why you constantly get told that?

Well you're the ones watering down techniques, training for 'character' rather than self defense, wearing uniforms.

to an extent, you have a general point. but, considering you've never seen a class at my school...or probably anyone else's on the forum...you don't really know that specifically, do you? As far as kids go, you must have different standards than adults...I've been actively teaching kids for 12 years and have run accross only a handful that could be given the same standard of 'correctness' as an adult

NONE of which were traditional in average training of CMA. Military and temples might have worn a 'uniform' but they wore a uniform ALL THE TIME. Like I said, they wore their street clothes. Even karate didn't use uniforms until Funakoshi and modern karate 100 years ago.

It's pretty obvious who here is saying the stupid things.

yep.........

[The Xia]

Contrary to what some are saying about this, I actually find that the people I’ve encountered that place great importance on rank and uniform do so to feed their egos. Instead of caring about what they have martially, they identify with the uniform because it makes them feel that they are empowered by something bigger and place so much importance on the color of their belt because they feel it guarantees skill. That's just something I have observed. Personally, I could care less about uniforms, belts, and stuff like that. If a good school has ranks and uniforms, I'll comply. The fact of the matter is that most schools I’ve seen use them. Even good schools use them for practical reasons. However, I'm there to train martial arts not to feel "special" and "cool" because I have a uniform and belt.
I can't say I think it's a good thing that parents care more about "discipline" then martial arts. That's a mindset that mcdojos can and do capitalize on. But even good schools will rarely stay open on a ****genous population of serious martial artists so they cater to everyone to pay the bills. That's just the way it is. I have nothing to complain about unless the quality of my instruction is lowered because of the school catering to others. If my instruction is as it should be, then there is no problem. So we have soccer moms that want martial arts schools to instill “discipline” in their kids. The uniforms make the soccer moms happy and keeps their checks coming in which helps keep the school open. Sure, I think parents should care about the martial arts their kids are getting and not "discipline", but that’s just not the way things are. If it’s a good school, they’ll give the kids a good martial arts base even if they also give them the structure the parents want.

[Oso]

I hate to think mid '70s counts as tradition. I thought tradition had to go through at least one generation.

umm, how do you define a generation? it's the mid 00's...there's tons of people that were students in the 70's that are teaching students now...hell, I only got started in the early 80's and I'm teaching...sounds like enough for 2 generations or more.

even genetically speaking, people born in the 70's have kids now...


wow, I hate to be redundant but 'there you go again'....

[Oso]

Good post, Xia.

But, that begs the question: What do kid really need a martial art for?

To fight? Fighting is bad, right?

Self Defense?

Against another kid?

That's 'fighting' as far as parents and schools are concerned; 'bad' again.

Against an adult?

Not going to happen.

Few children (<12) are ever going to beat an adult intent on harming them.

Self defense has nothing to do with physically defending oneself, that's 'fighting'. yes, yes, one assumes that SD is going to be taught in a martial arts school...but, that's still another thread.

Sport? Ok, that one i'll buy...I even like it. My own personal goal is to provide a place for children who don't fit into the mold of the 'Big 3' sports to learn a physical skill that can make them feel good about themselves...and compete if they wish to.

[neilhytholt]

Contrary to what some are saying about this, I actually find that the people I’ve encountered that place great importance on rank and uniform do so to feed their egos. Instead of caring about what they have martially, they identify with the uniform because it makes them feel that they are empowered by something bigger and place so much importance on the color of their belt because they feel it guarantees skill.

Can you say Kobra Kai? LOL


I can't say I think it's a good thing that parents care more about "discipline" then martial arts. That's a mindset that mcdojos can and do capitalize on. But even good schools will rarely stay open on a ****genous population of serious martial artists so they cater to everyone to pay the bills. That's just the way it is.

That's because so-called 'good schools' usually wind up with only about 5 serious students, usually men, who are serious about fighting. The instructors either get old and retire, or start watering down the training so they can get more money.

[Oso]

crap, it's after 11...peace and g'night.

i'm missing snuggle time with the old lady...:cool:

[neilhytholt]

crap, it's after 11...peace and g'night.

i'm missing snuggle time with the old lady...:cool:

Anyways, I shouldn't give you a hard time about uniforms or teaching kids. Somebody's gotta do it.

[neilhytholt]

umm, how do you define a generation? it's the mid 00's...there's tons of people that were students in the 70's that are teaching students now...hell, I only got started in the early 80's and I'm teaching...sounds like enough for 2 generations or more.

even genetically speaking, people born in the 70's have kids now...

wow, I hate to be redundant but 'there you go again'....

Yeah, I just gotta stop talking on here again.

Bottom line is uniforms are more important to you than martial arts, so you might as well just carry spare T-shirts and charge them when they forget it.

[sunfist]

IMO, try using the carrot instead of the stick.

Have a 'special' form that only the kids in uniform get to learn, while the other kids have to face the other way and do basics with another instructor. Make sure to make the special form look really cool when youre making it up :P

[Oso]

Anyways, I shouldn't give you a hard time about uniforms or teaching kids. Somebody's gotta do it.

heh, 'thanks'.



Yeah, I just gotta stop talking on here again.

Bottom line is uniforms are more important to you than martial arts, so you might as well just carry spare T-shirts and charge them when they forget it.

you're just sad, dude.

very, very sad




sunfist, I have to disagree with that. You don't reward people for doing the minimum requirements.

[golden arhat]

lose the uniforms and sashes
just make them wear simple practical clothes

problem solved

[Joe Mantis]

Oso,

Our policy is like yours is that the kids must have their uniform for class.
However I make it easy to enforce the policy by giving the parents a choice.
The student can sit and watch class so that they may learn from observation...
or the parents can purchase a new uniform so their kid can participate that day.

The kids can forget their sash for the day but they must do 25 push ups as a reminder to bring it.

I have found that parents are very supportive of our policies and that the ones that don't like it still adhere to them. if they don't well... there's always other places for them to train.

Joe Mantis

[bodhitree]

have the little effers do a crap load of pushups every time.

[Water-quan]

For all ages in class...
Have them hold up the wall or ceiling...

Hold up a wall...
Horse stance, back to it about 8in from with both hands out in a Q-sou...

Hold up the ceiling...
Same as above but arms above the head, plams to ceiling...

1st time offenders... 10min and have to go to the end of the line up as if they are a newbe...

2nd time offenders... 30min and have to go to the end of the line up as if they are a newbe...

3rd time offenders... wall or ceiling for the hole class time...

4th same as the 3rd... and so on...

~Jason


Dp they have to wear orange uniforms as well?

[golden arhat]

Dp they have to wear orange uniforms as well?
hahahahahhaha lol

[Water-quan]

actually, the idea of a uniform is to get rid of swollen ego



Who says people have swollen egos?? And why do people need to get rid of their egos? Ego is good - ego is our greatest ally, and our greatest barrier - and yet, the way past the barrier isn't, in my view, to attack the ego, to call it swollen and try to "kill" it - it's to honour it, respect it, cherish it.

Personally, I am sick of hearing people lecture others on how we need to supress ego. The greatest egos are those who like to play leader in little uniformed societies, bossing everyone around for daring to have egos and dress how they like! Actually...

What could show greater ego than telling others that "actually, wearing a uniform is to get rid of swollen ego!"?????? What ego to say that - what ego that has gotten over itself is seeking to de-swell other egos? Egos that are comfortable with themselves are comforatable with others, just as they are. Actually...





and the whole individuality for a moment



What rot! Who says we should get rid of our individuality? You? That's just yuor ego talking! I say let kids celebrate their individuality. No wonder breakdancing kkids are so much better at physical movement than martial arts kids.




to help one be conscious of working together towards a goal that is good for all.



Bah, common goods my rear end! Happy individuals with healthy self-identity and self respect work towards common goods, not drone-like zombies, dressed in uniforms all moving the same, all looking the same...it's just an extension of the corrupt and immoral forms practice - all move the same, all look the same. No wonder martial artists from that source are so awful. If uniformity does the same for egos as it does for martial arts skills - then I need to take a week off to laugh at what you wrote!





thinking about "me" all the time is not conducive to a well functioning community and breeds contempt amongst people for others.


You only think about "me" all the time any way, whether you dress it up in fancy anti-self original spin or not. Making kids hate individuality - dressing it up as peuedo-mystical BS - is just that, and I laugh at it. My kids don't wear any martial art suniform - neither do I - and they don't call anyone master or bow to anyone either! So stick that in your ego pipe and inhale... Cult of self permeatesd all things anyway, and your way is only another expression of it - making peopl despise the4 selfand think it is bad is one of the surest ways to keep focussed on it.

This idea you present is a bizzare and inverted corruption of Taoist and Ch'an ideas related to non-existence of self. Real work in that area comes about via honouring the ego, not via attacking it.




byt wearing uniforms we allow ourselves the opportunity to remove that selfish attitude and learn what it is to be part of community.



It is not selfish to think about the self. I take it you are not a big Nietzsche fan??
It is fine to take some time to consider one's self and one's own interest.

Besides, who appoints martial arts instructors - of all people the MOST egotistical in the world near enough - as the people who should train kids in getting over their egos? I want my kids to have an ego - I want them to look out for themselves, and respect and delight in their individuality.




you carry a family name don't you? That is a sign of where you come from and where you fit in and that others fit with you. It is an outward gesture and has nothing to do with taking away from the individual attributes.


Family names helpo to define individuality, not take away from it. If we follow your example you'd give all the kids the same name - you know, to destroy that pesky sense of self that is so terrible in kids. Our kids in your hands, eh?



Think of it this way:

A mob of people is no more of an army than a pile of building materials is a house.


But I don't want to be a Napoleon with an army of uniformed children copying my every move. I delight in seeing the individuality of children.



discipline in outward gestures and adherance to them signifies discipline of body and mind. If a person cannot make such small gestures, then they cannot come to attain personal kungfu which will mark them as a strong individual. It all works together.

recognize. :)

Recognize my eye, you pompous so and so! Got over your ego my eye! The kind of discipline you talk about is no more discipline than the kung fu skill you tal abotu is kung fu skill. Just crowd control and manipulation, subsuming the egos of others in one great cult of self.

The discip;line that doesn't come from genuine love and respect isn't worth a penny, in my humble view.

[Water-quan]

WQ: who are you kidding? do you not wear any sort of branded clothing or shoe or car?

Well said, DJ.

Who do you think you are kidding? People in uniforms - aya! If there is one thing we should teach our kids, it is the great folly that has bedevilled the world since we put people in to uniforms!

[Water-quan]

I totally agree it's a must. This is just another transitional thing for my school. We've hovered at 2-4 kids for years and now regularly have 9 lining up and more inquiries than ever before. It's the older kids unfortunately and it's my fault for not being more strict before. And, there is a huge logistical problem for these kids that I won't get in to here...I do know that there is more than just forgetfulness or lack of responsibility at play here. but, irrelevent of that, I've got to get them in line.

thanks all...except you water-quan :D

You're not welcome. Now, you get off and get those kids in line.... You never know, you may end upa s a passing character in a Pink FLoyd concept album.

[Shaolinlueb]

my schools uniform is the red school t shirt, black sweats (they can buy or get the kung fu pants.) and sneakers.
i never had a problem. if the kid spilt grape juice its 1 thing. if they refuse to wear it i make them sit out. i also make the adults sit out if they refuse to tuck their shirt in. i have kids going "come on sihing we aint comfortable". im like "i dont care, tuck in shirt or go sit out of class."

[Water-quan]

because I'm trying to run a commercial school, dvmb@ss. 99% of the parents looking to get their kids in to a martial art are not interested in the martial arts. they are trying to get their kids more disciplined (granted a job they should be doing but if they were...most schools would be out of business). if I need to explain the rest of that logic chain to you...



no sh!t sherlock...there you go again not reading everything in a post. I said that I knew that the kids in question, and their parents, were faced with logistical issues...which is why I didn't crack down sooner.

Yes, you need to crack down. If I was looking for a kung fu school for my kids, I'd look for someone who goes ont he itnernet calling other people stupid - then I'd know just why he is so keen on cracking down on others, and making them wear uniforms.

But on a practical note, why not just have a casual t-shirt with a logo, and if people forget to wear it, relax - it's no big deal in the great scheme.

[Water-quan]

my schools uniform is the red school t shirt, black sweats (they can buy or get the kung fu pants.) and sneakers.
i never had a problem. if the kid spilt grape juice its 1 thing. if they refuse to wear it i make them sit out. i also make the adults sit out if they refuse to tuck their shirt in. i have kids going "come on sihing we aint comfortable". im like "i dont care, tuck in shirt or go sit out of class."

Petty mindedness.

[Water-quan]

and DJ has a great point about the ego...it's a tenet of buddhism and consequently wu de that ego be sublimated. that's hard for most people at best.



That's a shallow understanding of somethign much more profound than selling kids uniforms. All great idea tend to be simple - as a consequence, people can see in to them according to their depth of insight - see the surface meaning, or see deeply.

[xcakid]

starting to have a big problem with kids not showing up with uniforms...we don't have a bunch of fancy stuff...just pants, tshirt and sash.

What do ya'll do? Make the kid sit out of class if they don't have their uniform?

1 verbal warning and push ups, 2 talk with parents and push ups, 3 strikes send them home.

ETA: I did have one student where the mother was a single mom trying to make ends meet. His uniform was so old they started to fray. So he stopped wearing them. I talked with the mom and found out they were short on cash. So it was either frayed uniform or no uniform. I gave the kid an early B-Day gift.

[Water-quan]

i have kids going "come on sihing we aint comfortable". ."

You even get a special name? How interesting!

[Water-quan]

1 verbal warning and push ups, 2 talk with parents and push ups, 3 strikes send them home.

ETA: I did have one student where the mother was a single mom trying to make ends meet. His uniform was so old they started to fray. So he stopped wearing them. I talked with the mom and found out they were short on cash. So it was either frayed uniform or no uniform. I gave the kid an early B-Day gift.

Maybe the frayed uniform was more of a sign of honour? Trained till it frayed.

[TenTigers]

Oso,you don't run a commercial school, you run a professional school.
You seem to me like you are trying to run a tight ship, teach quality MA,without compromising your integrity. Oh yeah, and get paid for it. That to me is professional, not commercial.
As to Neil, character development has been taught side by side in TCMA.
Hok Yun, Hok Yee Hok Gung-Fu-learn compassion, learn loyalty, before learning Gung-Fu.
Jun Jo,Jun Si, Jun Do Duk-Honor Ancestors,Honor Sifu, Honor the path of Virtue
this is an extremely old and well recognized creed of many TCMA.

http://www.chinwoo.com/spirit.htm
old guys in uniforms-not street clothes go to the pics of Lam Sai-Wing
http://www.kungfu-info.de

[url]http://www.worldeagleclaw.com

[Shaolinlueb]

Petty mindedness.

1.) dully noted.

2.) your opinion doesnt mean anything to me,.

[Shaolinlueb]

You even get a special name? How interesting!

dont you? water quan sounds pretty special.

[Water-quan]

1.) dully noted.

2.) your opinion doesnt mean anything to me,.

Clearly. Now tuck your shirt in.

[Water-quan]

dont you? water quan sounds pretty special.
Does it? I liked it. I don't have a special name from the people I train with - just my own name, but there again, no one is aboveme and no one is below me. The kung fu salute makes a circle, not a pyramid.

[neilhytholt]

As to Neil, character development has been taught side by side in TCMA.
Hok Yun, Hok Yee Hok Gung-Fu-learn compassion, learn loyalty, before learning Gung-Fu.
Jun Jo,Jun Si, Jun Do Duk-Honor Ancestors,Honor Sifu, Honor the path of Virtue
this is an extremely old and well recognized creed of many TCMA.

http://www.chinwoo.com/spirit.htm
old guys in uniforms-not street clothes go to the pics of Lam Sai-Wing
http://www.kungfu-info.de

[url]http://www.worldeagleclaw.com

In case you didn't notice, Lam Sai Wing is wearing a SUIT there. He's a modern teacher.

Honestly it seems like you are making crappy excuses. If you are going to put some kid through hardship just to practice nonsense anyway, then you are a sorry bunch of teachers.

Basically you're just babysitters. But guess you knew that, anyways.

[TenTigers]

the OTHER pic. :rolleyes:

[neilhytholt]

the OTHER pic. :rolleyes:

Of course. The point is that he is a MODERN teacher. When I say traditionally I'm not talking the past 100 years after the modernization of China.

If you want to get on like that, tradition being so short, then why not wear gym clothes like Jet Li used to when he was training?

There was this bad T.V. movie a while back where they had some guy getting his black belt in Kenpo and the instructor said it was an 'ancient ceremony' and important, and bowed and all of that, and said that traditionally when a Kenpo guy gets his black belt it means the boy has turned into a man.

This, in American Kenpo, which is a style Ed Parker put together out of stuff he learned from people who did street fighting in Hawaii, Mitose and Chow and stuff. No belts, no traditions, nothing like that. It's all B.S.

[TenTigers]

basically, it's only since MA was taught openly to the public that uniforms started, which is why I point to men like Lam Sai-Wing, and Lau Fat-Mang, who were probably one of the first recognized "commercial" teachers.
I run a TCMA gwoon, but my teacher teaches me in his home, in his friend's abandoned building, in the park, whatever. No uniforms. But..he also doesn't teach openly. If he did, well, then there would probably be uniforms.
-actually, we do have an embroidered polo shirt, but we only wear it on "Special occaisions" like those TCMA polo matches you see advertized...um, no.

[neilhytholt]

basically, it's only since MA was taught openly to the public that uniforms started, which is why I point to men like Lam Sai-Wing, and Lau Fat-Mang, who were probably one of the first recognized "commercial" teachers.
I run a TCMA gwoon, but my teacher teaches me in his home, in his friend's abandoned building, in the park, whatever. No uniforms. But..he also doesn't teach openly. If he did, well, then there would probably be uniforms.
-actually, we do have an embroidered polo shirt, but we only wear it on "Special occaisions" like those TCMA polo matches you see advertized...um, no.

So basically what you're saying is in large commercial schools with uniforms, they wear uniforms.

I mean, plenty of wushu places trained in gym clothes until they started wearing taiji pyjamas recently.

Bottom line is if you want to make it a 'tradition' that's up to you, but it's your made up 'tradition'.

[TenTigers]

So basically what you're saying is in large commercial schools with uniforms, they wear uniforms.

-yep

I mean, plenty of wushu places trained in gym clothes until they started wearing taiji pyjamas recently.

-they still train in gym clothes-the silks are reserved for performance.

[TenTigers]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=teMlv3ripSM

[neilhytholt]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=teMlv3ripSM

It's the department of redundancy department.

[David Jamieson]

Uniforms and the like are not a modern thing.

Also, it is within the human condition that in order to lead, one has to understand what it is to follow.

Putting the cart before the horse will often rile the horse and you don't get far at all. there is nothing wrong with putting down the self in exchange for lessons in anything.

Uniforms as a distinction of belonging to community extend out and far beyond just martial arts school and there is value in a lesson in humility through deconstruction of ego.

Soldiers wear them, firemen, police etc.

A sense of identity is often very badly needed by people, especially youth who try to identify with something, or someone or anyone.

There is more value in having a standard and a tradition than not. Not to mention there is often a practical aspect to wearing uniforms or outward identification.

a small for instance, cable knit sweaters. :p these were woven differently from village to village and when fishermen drowned and were washed up on shore, they could be identified by the weave of the sweater.

I suppose one could view it as a bad thing if they chose to do so, but generally this is an act of iconoclasm if not outright beligerance for the sake of it. Which will often get you cast out of community and it takes some time of longing for friendship or companionship before people can finely make the decision to oput down their foolish pride and larger tahn life ideas of who they really are in order to find peace.

So, asking that a uniform be worn and be kept clean is not a big deal and not a big expectation. And to make the outward demonstration of some chore for not adhering is not a lot to expect either.

We all have to play by rules in one way or another or in some way we won't be accepted. That's how it works. That's how it's always worked and that is likely to be how it will always work.

[Oso]

wow, there's the old KL ;)

I'm not going to bother keeping up with this thread past this post...neil and water quan can certainly have their opinion as I can have mine and others theirs.


1 verbal warning and push ups, 2 talk with parents and push ups, 3 strikes send them home.

ETA: I did have one student where the mother was a single mom trying to make ends meet. His uniform was so old they started to fray. So he stopped wearing them. I talked with the mom and found out they were short on cash. So it was either frayed uniform or no uniform. I gave the kid an early B-Day gift.

i've given uniforms and equipment to students in the very same manner...xmas or birthday...hell, the 3 kids in question got gear bags last xmas in an effort to help them remember their stuff...don't see the gear bags anymore...




for everyone who gave constructive advice and support, THANKS!

[David Jamieson]

I think they may be protesting just a little to much, but they certainly are entitled to their views.

It's all good.

p.s "the old kl"? yin and yang has always been my flow. :p I get riled too.

[Oso]

i was doing some searching the other week and ran across some old KL posts that were more like the one above

:) there was a shift when you stopped moderating :)

[David Jamieson]

well, i didn't have to be moderate anymore. :p

[The Xia]

Good post, Xia.

But, that begs the question: What do kid really need a martial art for?

To fight? Fighting is bad, right?

Self Defense?

Against another kid?

That's 'fighting' as far as parents and schools are concerned; 'bad' again.

Against an adult?

Not going to happen.

Few children (<12) are ever going to beat an adult intent on harming them.

Self defense has nothing to do with physically defending oneself, that's 'fighting'. yes, yes, one assumes that SD is going to be taught in a martial arts school...but, that's still another thread.

Sport? Ok, that one i'll buy...I even like it. My own personal goal is to provide a place for children who don't fit into the mold of the 'Big 3' sports to learn a physical skill that can make them feel good about themselves...and compete if they wish to.
I know that in today's politically correct school system kids can get in trouble for defending themselves. But do you really agree with it? If a kid is attacked by another what is he supposed to do? It would seem that political correctness would dictate that he gets beaten up. I just don't buy that. Why shouldn't a kid have the right to defend himself? Therefore, I say kids should be taught martial arts just as they have been for years. I guess you can teach and encourage "nicer" techniques to use when defending against other kids and explain to them the danger of using other stuff. Political correctness aside, there are still some things in martial arts that kids can't do without hurting themselves. I think a good kids program serves three purposes. 1) Builds a martial arts foundation. 2) Provides fitness. 3) Fosters a love for martial arts.

[Oso]

I know that in today's politically correct school system kids can get in trouble for defending themselves. But do you really agree with it?

Hell No. not at all. the last thing people would acuse me of is political correctness.

If a kid is attacked by another what is he supposed to do?

I've got a kid who is getting picked on at school. He's got enough skills to probably pop back succesfully. His mom has come to me and I've basically told her that I could help him get better at fighting if what she wants him to do is fight back. But, I told her it would also probably lead to a succession of fights as retalitation sets in and in todays society, he would get ganged up on and the crap kicked out of him. Otherwise, it's just a sad fact that small kids are going to get picked on buy big kids.

It would seem that political correctness would dictate that he gets beaten up. I just don't buy that. Why shouldn't a kid have the right to defend himself?

They should, just as any other citizen of this country. But, they don't have that right within the confines of any school system I've ever experienced. Most administrators have the policy that anyone fighting is guilty. And, other than developing some sort of court system within the school system...there will probably not be any other way. The exception being, I hope, when a person in charge witnesses a specific incident.

Therefore, I say kids should be taught martial arts just as they have been for years. I guess you can teach and encourage "nicer" techniques to use when defending against other kids and explain to them the danger of using other stuff.

A nice thought...but, and this is a stretch of an analogy, 'don't pull the trigger unless you mean to kill'. (It's an analogy!!!!!!) The same arguments against 'twiddly finger' kung fu techniques that are too fancy to pull off when your dander is up (and motor control is down) is why, if I were teaching a kid to really fight, I would teach them the same things I teach my adults to fight with in full contact venues. 'kick the leg, punch the head' at it's simplest.

Political correctness aside, there are still some things in martial arts that kids can't do without hurting themselves. I think a good kids program serves three purposes. 1) Builds a martial arts foundations. 2) Provides fitness. 3) Fosters a love for martial arts.

totally agree with the last.

I think we're on the same page. My initial response was semi-devil's advocate...as in, I'm torn between my personal views and the reality of the situation of a kid being bullied.

[Oso]

well, i didn't have to be moderate anymore. :p

i know...not a critique...just an observation. :)

I actually had a visualization once after reading a 'DJ' post of you pulling a kabuki style mask off and screaming 'HAAA!!!! Beyotches!!! I don't have to be nice anymore. mwuhahahahaha....' :p

[The Xia]

I think we're on the same page. My initial response was semi-devil's advocate...as in, I'm torn between my personal views and the reality of the situation of a kid being bullied.
This seems to be quite a pickle you have yourself in. You mentioned that one of your students gets picked on but if he pops his attacker back he might get ganged up on. That may happen. But it also might not. This next notion might sound clich&#233; but it's more often then not true from situations I’ve witnessed. Bullies are cowards. The reason why they pick on those that are smaller then they is because they perceive the smaller size as weakness. If they feel that there's a chance they can get their ass kicked, they won't pick on someone. In most instances I have seen, if a bully gets knocked on his ass, he backs down and moves onto different prey. But you can't be sure, and as you said, the bully might come back with friends. But I have not seen that kind of thing personally.
I also know about school rules dealing with fighting. You and I likely feel the same way about them. Basically, that they’re a load of B.S.. From what I have seen, those rules go from elementary to high school, which makes it worse because as kids get older fights tend to get more dangerous. I say if someone attacks you, in school or anywhere else, defend yourself. If you get in trouble later, it's best to remember that detention and suspension are better then hospital visits or worse. But even at an elementary school level, it's plain old stupid to expect a kid to lie down and take it. A kid popping a bully and ending a fight saves himself from pain, humiliation, and possible injury (and maybe continued bullying as well). Is the punishment that the school doles out worse then the things he is saving himself from? I doubt it. Besides, parents can always challenge the school. I think that one of the worst things parents can do (and often do) when dealing with the school system is to just lay down and let them walk all over their kids.
It's still a tough position you are in and I don't envy it. I wish you good luck and hope things turn out for the best with this.

[Oso]

it's a bit worse than just bullying...not going to get in to it here for privacy reasons but it's not a great situation at all.

thanks.

[neilhytholt]

it's a bit worse than just bullying...not going to get in to it here for privacy reasons but it's not a great situation at all.

thanks.

Bullying is a big pain. Fighting doesn't help much.

My recommendation for the kid getting bullied is to use a prison mentality and make friends with some bigger kids ... if he's out there alone he's fair game for anybody.

When I was a kid, I got bullied a lot. Then, when I got into high school and after I started taking MA it stopped. I always thought it was because I took MA.

But NO ... I talked to some people years later and what happened is that I started hanging out with a friend from school, and he had a bunch of older brothers, and I started hanging out with them.

Well one night at dinner they asked why I got into trouble at school and I said well I had a busted jaw from a fight. Well that was the last fight because they had a 'talk' with the kids who were picking on me. Never told me though until 15 years later.

Kindof a tragic story because one of the brothers died later from a drunk driver.

[Water-quan]

Uniforms and the like are not a modern thing.

Also, it is within the human condition that in order to lead, one has to understand what it is to follow.


Well, if you want to be a leader, I don't say that's wrong - just a choice, but I don't see what it has to do with martial arts, or why it helps in learning martial arts.

Besides, what you said is just a platitude... I'm not sure Alexander the Great or Churchill were ever comfortable as followers. In fact, the real truth is the "ego" is a huge, huge help to those who need to lead. Uniforms - well, I suppose they help keep people herded. And the shepherd must have his crook.




Putting the cart before the horse will often rile the horse and you don't get far at all. there is nothing wrong with putting down the self in exchange for lessons in anything.


Why would putting people down help them learn? Actually, I say there's a lot wrong with it.



Uniforms as a distinction of belonging to community extend out and far beyond just martial arts school and there is value in a lesson in humility through deconstruction of ego.


Why do you feel the need to destroy everyone's ego? You could do that by feeding people LSD untilt hey go mad. Buddhist ideas on non-existence of self are to do with awareness of the artifical construction of self-sense via language and meaning - nothign to do with eliminating people's self worth, or any of this other stuff you are spouting. The stuff you are talking about is the surest way to make people focus on their ego - attack the ego like you say and it will totally focus on its self, totally eliminating the slightest possibility of understanding the teachings of the Buddha.




Soldiers wear them, firemen, police etc.


Why would that mean that it is necessary for kung fu students to wear them? Any more than if someone went for a guitar lessont hey would need to put on a special costume - maybe like Garth from Wayne's World or something??? In fact, it is amazing how anyone learns anything when they are not in a uniform, given your logic!




A sense of identity is often very badly needed by people, especially youth who try to identify with something, or someone or anyone.



Well, if the best you can do is to make them identify with clothes, then I suppose at least you are trying. At one time, that lack was filled by wholesome martial arts practice - a sense of personal achievement via effort and rewarding practice. At one time...




There is more value in having a standard and a tradition than not.


Where is that proven? Tradtion based groups are often backward looking. COnsider the difference between dead martial arts systems - 99.9 per cent of them -where all learnign and growth has ended - and the liive systems, where each person embarks on a journey to explore their own abilities freely. Dead systems, dead ways...



Not to mention there is often a practical aspect to wearing uniforms or outward identification.


Well, for Judo I can see the point. For kung fu people, if you have time to wash and dry your uniform you're not trainign enough! Ha ha...




a small for instance, cable knit sweaters. :p these were woven differently from village to village and when fishermen drowned and were washed up on shore, they could be identified by the weave of the sweater.


Not a terribly likely risk for the average kung fu student, I shouldn't think.

[Water-quan]

I. Which will often get you cast out of community and it takes some time of longing for friendship or companionship before people can finely make the decision to oput down their foolish pride and larger tahn life ideas of who they really are in order to find peace.


If that were your aim, you would be helping people come to terms with who they are, not attackign who they are, and seeking to eliminate it.

Pride is not foolish - it is very noble in many cases.



So, asking that a uniform be worn and be kept clean is not a big deal and not a big expectation. And to make the outward demonstration of some chore for not adhering is not a lot to expect either.


Why should people have to follow petty rules just to learn some kung fu?



We all have to play by rules in one way or another or in some way we won't be accepted. That's how it works. That's how it's always worked and that is likely to be how it will always work.

Unless people question it.

[David Jamieson]

your opinions are completely valid and you are 100% entitled to them. I differ in my views on the subject.

[Ben Gash]

My Sifu used to have an "ugly belt" for uniform infractions. He got a seemstress to make a sash from the ugliest, most garish material, and people who forgot their sash or top etc had to wear it for the class.
I love the fact that people can make such insights into your club simply because you have a uniform policy Oso :rolleyes: Obviously the sense of belonging and group identity that uniform offers is so useless that major corporations and sports teams don't use them :rolleyes:
I'm somewhat confused of late, I thought Neilthyholt was banned years ago :confused: If not, why isn't he banned now? ;)

[Water-quan]

My Sifu used to have an "ugly belt" for uniform infractions. He got a seemstress to make a sash from the ugliest, most garish material, and people who forgot their sash or top etc had to wear it for the class.



I'd just wear that one every week, if I had to wear one.

[Oso]

I love the fact that people can make such insights into your club simply because you have a uniform policy Oso :rolleyes:

because this is an internet forum? most specifically, a martial arts internet forum.

:confused: :p :D

[Oso]

I'd just wear that one every week, if I had to wear one.

i know what it is...you're goth, aren't you? ;)

[Water-quan]

i know what it is...you're goth, aren't you? ;)

Heh.... I had a black belt, but no one could notice over my black suit. Everyone thought I was a Ninja... but you're right! I was a goth and it stopped people seeing my grade! Aya!

[Infrazael]

Uniforms are a waste of money for the people learning the martial art. I've always thought it extremely silly that you can't train at a school because of the clothes you're wearing.

In a fight not at your school or a tournament, you'll be in street clothes.

So why not train in everyday clothing.

In my MMA gym nobody has uniforms. Yet everyone can fight. I don't see that with CMA schools.

Are you teaching moral philosophy or how to fight.

If I ever teach Choy Lay Fut I won't require anyone to wear uniforms. Just wear something conducive to martial arts - allowing free range of limb movement etc. Just sweats, shorts, a shirt, a jacket, sweatshirt, whatever they feel like. As long as everyone sweats hard and trains to fight hard.

Worrying about uniforms is silly.

[SanHeChuan]

Don't they fight half naked in MMA? I hope I never get into a street fight like that! :eek:

[Infrazael]

Most people wear T-shirt or a sweatshirt, sometimes a long-sleeved shirt. Most people wear shorts, some people wear sweats.

Nobody fights half naked. Sometimes they'll take off their shirts in sparring and whatnot, but almost everybody has a shirt on most of the time.

[Kung Pao]

Uniforms are a waste of money for the people learning the martial art. I've always thought it extremely silly that you can't train at a school because of the clothes you're wearing.

In a fight not at your school or a tournament, you'll be in street clothes.

So why not train in everyday clothing.

In my MMA gym nobody has uniforms. Yet everyone can fight. I don't see that with CMA schools.

Are you teaching moral philosophy or how to fight.

If I ever teach Choy Lay Fut I won't require anyone to wear uniforms. Just wear something conducive to martial arts - allowing free range of limb movement etc. Just sweats, shorts, a shirt, a jacket, sweatshirt, whatever they feel like. As long as everyone sweats hard and trains to fight hard.

Worrying about uniforms is silly.

Certainly. I agree. However, in CMA you'll find yourself kicking above your head. You can't do that in street clothes, b/c jeans/kakhis don't give that kind of leg freedom without tearing hte seat of hte pants.

I know the counter to this is: so you wouldn't ever kick above your head in jeans, so why train them? For strength and flexibility....

BTW, I train in a gi-like thingy (don't know what CMA uniforms are called, sorry), but I often train in a pair of jeans or kakhis at home, or some sweat pants (it's cold here). Each has its use. Many masters of old taught in regular day pants, with leather belts, and loafers....:D ......

It's gotta say something, right? Maybe you have a point.

[SanHeChuan]

Nobody fights half naked. Sometimes they'll take off their shirts in sparring and whatnot, but almost everybody has a shirt on most of the time.

What kind of shorts are we taking about here, those "bicycle shorts" that you see them fight in on TV counts as half-naked to me.

Maybe they just like to show thier "stuff" on TV. :p

[Black Jack II]

I agree. However, in CMA you'll find yourself kicking above your head. You can't do that in street clothes, b/c jeans/kakhis don't give that kind of leg freedom without tearing hte seat of hte pants.

Why train in something at all if you find yourself having a problem with its techniques in street clothes??

[xcakid]

Cause if you can kick over your head, it would make it easier and faster to kick someones knee out.

Always do thing harder than actual. US Special Forces will do things more difficult than what has historically been required in their missions. In my firearms training, I will shoot maybe 300-500rds a month in competitions and various classes. Even though in an actual confrontation, I will only probably have to just draw the weapon to stop the confrontation or worse, just fire one shot.

[Infrazael]

Certainly. I agree. However, in CMA you'll find yourself kicking above your head. You can't do that in street clothes, b/c jeans/kakhis don't give that kind of leg freedom without tearing hte seat of hte pants.

I know the counter to this is: so you wouldn't ever kick above your head in jeans, so why train them? For strength and flexibility....

BTW, I train in a gi-like thingy (don't know what CMA uniforms are called, sorry), but I often train in a pair of jeans or kakhis at home, or some sweat pants (it's cold here). Each has its use. Many masters of old taught in regular day pants, with leather belts, and loafers....:D ......

It's gotta say something, right? Maybe you have a point.

I rarely kick above the waist. Just leg kicks to the thighs, and stomp kicks to the shins/knees.

I train in jeans all the time. I can kick above the head with them.

I wear decently loose means. I am not ghey and Emo and wear super-tight jeans.

Have I explained things well? :)

[Black Jack II]

Cause if you can kick over your head, it would make it easier and faster to kick someones knee out.

Is that to me? My statement was to kung bro.

I don't kick anything over groin level. Most of my kicks are target zoned to the knee and stomps.


Always do thing harder than actual. US Special Forces will do things more difficult than what has historically been required in their missions

This sounds good in theory and it is a nice maxim but really most people depending on there goals only have the time to train in a certain context.

[Water-quan]

Cause if you can kick over your head, it would make it easier and faster to kick someones knee out.

Always do thing harder than actual. .


Although everyone knows why you say this, it is simply not true. Kicking above the head and kicking low are completely different techniques, requiring compeltely different mechanics, timing and distance and balance etc... Fact of the matter is, you need to train for what you want to be good at. In this instance, if you want to be good at low kickis, you practice low kicks, and if you want to make them harder than actual, you just practice them a lot, or decise training methods to improve timing, speed, power etc.

[Kung Pao]

Sometimes I do wear pants that would allow for that kind of kick.

High kicks can be effective. I've seen 1 or 2 of them responsible for instant KO's in the UFC during the past coulple of years. Kyoshukin fighters have excellent high kicks. Muay Thai uses them. And unless you're fighting a pro, high kicks are incredibly effective.

Not my favorite technique. But I've seen people snap high kicks as fast as some pros punch. It's not impossible.

And with a proper setup, you can bet I'd kick someone in the head or chest.

And I'd probably yell "Madness? This is Sparta!!!"

[Water-quan]

Sometimes I do wear pants that would allow for that kind of kick.




Chuck Norris action jeans?? With expandable gusset panel?

[Oso]

Great! Just what I needed on this subject, attitude from a parent because they didn't see anything wrong with short shorts for kids class...:rolleyes:

[Fen]

Dq they have to wear orange uniforms as well?

NO but I will keep it in mind... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Instead, I have been considering making my students wear speedo's and muscle tanks - then we might fit in more and look just as pretty as the MMA peeps....

As for you peeps that cannot kick over your head... Here is the 411 for you... 501's from Levi's and Wrangler Jeans went out in the 80's. If you're still wearing pants that you have to paint on, then I can understand where you're coming from. But, you should try picking up some Levi's Silvertabs or some Quiksilver jeans. They're nice and baggy - enough to kick over your head in. You might be able to pick up some decent jeans that are "kick proof" if you stop shopping at Wal-Mart.

~Jason

[banditshaw]

Or get these

[Water-quan]

Or get these


You jacked my joke. That makes me angry.

[Water-quan]

Poses an interestng question though - does your kung fu still look good when you are naked? I know mine does.

[Water-quan]

Kids in uniform - the benefits:

http://www.epier.com/store/outpostflags/ItemImages/youthCD.jpg

[Oso]

well, duh!


what point in starting a martial arts school if not world domination?

[Water-quan]

well, duh!


what point in starting a martial arts school if not world domination?


Good point.

[banditshaw]

You jacked my joke. That makes me angry.
My apologies dude.
When you mentioned it the image burned in my head....I had to share.:D