breathing what do you think about this?

[EARTH DRAGON]

There are many people today who are still confusedabout how to breathe while practicing Taijiquan. Some masters teach students to breathe naturally, others emphasize normal abdominal breathing, while many others claim that only reverse abdominal breathing is correct. In this article I would like to summarize some of my conclusions about Taiji breathing, based upon my understanding of the many Taiji and Qigong books I have read, and the accumulated experience of my 28 years in Taiji and Qigong. I hope that this article will free you from any confusion.


First, let us consider natural breathing. When youpractice Taijiquan with this breathing, your mind does not have to be focused on the breathing. This is especially important for the beginner. At this stage, they should pay attention primarily to regulating the bodyinto a more relaxed, centered, and balanced state.

Once you have regulated your body, then you should learn how to regulate your breathing so that it is more efficient. Breathing is considered to be your strategy in Chinese Qigong. How you coordinate your breathing allows you to regulate your body and lead your Qi efficiently. There are two common ways of breathing in Taiji. The first way is called “normal abdominal breathing� or “Buddhist breathing,� while the other is called “reverse abdominal breathing� or “Daoist breathing.� In normal abdominal breathing, when you inhale the abdomen (or Dan Tian) expands, and when you exhale the abdomen withdraws. However, in reverse abdominal breathing the abdomen (or Dan Tian) withdraws when you inhale, and expands when you exhale. It is usually easier to keep your body relaxed and feeling comfortable with normal abdominal breathing, so that is the method commonly used by those who practice Taiji only for health.

As for reverse abdominal breathing, many Taiji practitioners today falsely believe that the reverse breathing technique is against the way of the Dao. That is not true. It is simply used for different purposes. Try this simple experiment. Place one hand on your abdomen, and hold the other in front of you as if you were pushing something. Inhale deeply, and as you exhale, imagine that you are pushing a heavy object. You will easily see that, when you try to push as strongly as possible, you automatically use reverse breathing. This is the method which is commonly used in weight lifting competition. The competitors often wear a thick belt to support their abdomens and increase their power.

The rationale for reverse breathing is quite simple. You can lead a much stronger flow of Qi to the limbs and manifest more power if you also, simultaneously, direct another flow of Qi to your Dan Tian. This is in accordance with the basic law of physics which states that for every action there must be an equal and opposite reaction. If you are still not convinced, try another experiment. Blow up a balloon while holding a hand on your abdomen to see how it moves.

You can see from these experiments that reversebreathing is in accordance with the Dao. It should be used whenever you need to lead Qi to the limbs to efficiently manifest power, as when fighting. Because reverse breathing expands the Qi and energizes thebody it is considered Yang, in comparison to normalbreathing which is Yin.

You can see from this discussion that both normal abdominal breathing and reverse abdominal breathing are correct, depending on your purpose. It is just like how you breathe during your everyday activities. You should understand that the way you breathe is affected by your thinking and your emotions. For example, when you think of something scary, you will naturally tend to hold your breath. When you are sad, you inhale more than you exhale, and when you are excited, you exhale more than you inhale. When you are relaxed, your breathing is uniform and natural, and when you inhale your abdomen moves out, while when you exhale your abdomen moves in. However, when you intend to manifest power, or even just think about it, you automaticallychange to reverse breathing.

Theoretically, normal abdominal breathing makes you relax and allows the Qi to circulate smoothly, and reverse abdominal breathing makes you tense and excited, which allows the Qi to be manifested in your physical body. You can see from this that normal abdominal breathing can make your physical body and mind calm, which is considered a Yin practice. Naturally, reverse abdominal breathing can make youexcited and energized, and it is considered Yang.

I therefore suggest that, if you are interested more in the health aspect of Taijiquan, you should emphasize normal abdominal breathing. However, if you practice Taijiquan for martial arts, then you must also practice reverse abdominal breathing and learn how to lead Qi to your limbs efficiently.There are many people today who are still confusedabout how to breathe while practicing Taijiquan. Some masters teach students to breathe naturally, others emphasize normal abdominal breathing, while many others claim that only reverse abdominal breathing is correct. In this article I would like to summarize some of my conclusions about Taiji breathing, based upon my understanding of the many Taiji and Qigong books I have read, and the accumulated experience of my 28 years in Taiji and Qigong. I hope that this article will free you from any confusion.


First, let us consider natural breathing. When youpractice Taijiquan with this breathing, your mind does not have to be focused on the breathing. This is especially important for the beginner. At this stage, they should pay attention primarily to regulating the bodyinto a more relaxed, centered, and balanced state.

Once you have regulated your body, then you should learn how to regulate your breathing so that it is more efficient. Breathing is considered to be your strategy in Chinese Qigong. How you coordinate your breathing allows you to regulate your body and lead your Qi efficiently. There are two common ways of breathing in Taiji. The first way is called “normal abdominal breathing� or “Buddhist breathing,� while the other is called “reverse abdominal breathing� or “Daoist breathing.� In normal abdominal breathing, when you inhale the abdomen (or Dan Tian) expands, and when you exhale the abdomen withdraws. However, in reverse abdominal breathing the abdomen (or Dan Tian) withdraws when you inhale, and expands when you exhale. It is usually easier to keep your body relaxed and feeling comfortable with normal abdominal breathing, so that is the method commonly used by those who practice Taiji only for health.

As for reverse abdominal breathing, many Taiji practitioners today falsely believe that the reverse breathing technique is against the way of the Dao. That is not true. It is simply used for different purposes. Try this simple experiment. Place one hand on your abdomen, and hold the other in front of you as if you were pushing something. Inhale deeply, and as you exhale, imagine that you are pushing a heavy object. You will easily see that, when you try to push as strongly as possible, you automatically use reverse breathing. This is the method which is commonly used in weight lifting competition. The competitors often wear a thick belt to support their abdomens and increase their power.

The rationale for reverse breathing is quite simple. You can lead a much stronger flow of Qi to the limbs and manifest more power if you also, simultaneously, direct another flow of Qi to your Dan Tian. This is in accordance with the basic law of physics which states that for every action there must be an equal and opposite reaction. If you are still not convinced, try another experiment. Blow up a balloon while holding a hand on your abdomen to see how it moves.

You can see from these experiments that reversebreathing is in accordance with the Dao. It should be used whenever you need to lead Qi to the limbs to efficiently manifest power, as when fighting. Because reverse breathing expands the Qi and energizes thebody it is considered Yang, in comparison to normalbreathing which is Yin.

You can see from this discussion that both normal abdominal breathing and reverse abdominal breathing are correct, depending on your purpose. It is just like how you breathe during your everyday activities. You should understand that the way you breathe is affected by your thinking and your emotions. For example, when you think of something scary, you will naturally tend to hold your breath. When you are sad, you inhale more than you exhale, and when you are excited, you exhale more than you inhale. When you are relaxed, your breathing is uniform and natural, and when you inhale your abdomen moves out, while when you exhale your abdomen moves in. However, when you intend to manifest power, or even just think about it, you automaticallychange to reverse breathing.

Theoretically, normal abdominal breathing makes you relax and allows the Qi to circulate smoothly, and reverse abdominal breathing makes you tense and excited, which allows the Qi to be manifested in your physical body. You can see from this that normal abdominal breathing can make your physical body and mind calm, which is considered a Yin practice. Naturally, reverse abdominal breathing can make youexcited and energized, and it is considered Yang.

I therefore suggest that, if you are interested more in the health aspect of Taijiquan, you should emphasize normal abdominal breathing. However, if you practice Taijiquan for martial arts, then you must also practice reverse abdominal breathing and learn how to lead Qi to your limbs efficiently.

http://www.kungfuUSA.net

[Nexus]

Very informational. Thanks for the post.

[Shooter]

Thanks, Earth Dragon. You draw some good examples of natural breath-work. Most of the Chi Kung I was taught was along the lines of being performance-based and kinda like you described. In regard to emotionally reactive breathing, there are also some breathing techniques which alter the course of one's breakdown in respiratory function as they're affected by stress.

There's of course, natural breathing and learning to regulate it as stressors are recognized and mentally acknowledged. Then there are several breathing methods which address the respiratory function during high perfomance states such as running, explosive maneuvering, fighting, etc. Each of these states of performance puts specific demands on the cardiovascular and respiratory systems.

I was taught a deep-submersion exercise a long time ago by a swimming instructor that was kind of like drown-proofing, but took the exercise to the extreme. Basically, you exhale all your air as you dive/descend feet first to the bottom of the deep and in a swimming pool. You stay at the bottom as long as you can without any air. I took to it naturally and have practiced it for most of my life.The main benifit is the over-riding of the panic factor and being able to relax during periods of oxygen deprivation. Anyway, when I started learning Chi Kung, I was shown something very similar that I was taught to incorporate into my Tai Chi sparring. Not for any other reason than to minimize my use of strength and natural power. It was an effective learning tool in teaching me to relax and plan my explosive phases a little better.

Further, there are Tonic Breath, Cleansing Breath, Natural Deep Breath, and several variations of abdominal breathing that you outlined.

Tonic (in through the mouth, out through the nose) and Cleansing (in through the nose, out through the mouth) are very effective methods of restoring and enhancing sound respiratory function during high-performance and high-stress moments. As poijnted out, recognizing stressors is the key to regulating breath accordingly.

When taxing the respiratory function, these techniques may or may not have a reverse effect, but basically, while one is in a natural state without high-stress or performance demands present, Tonic breath makes exhalation short and inhalation long. The reverse holds for Cleansing Breath.

In a state of high-performance, this changes depending on the activity, and the individual's reactive nature to the stresses they're experiencing.

This all calls for lots of experimentation on a personal level and lots of research into one's own emotional and mental reactive perceptions and tendencies, and personal performance.

Just thought I'd add my 2 cents...maybe more later... :cool:

[This message was edited by Shooter on 11-02-01 at 11:23 AM.]

[Nexus]

You draw out a good point. Certain breaths are associated with all sorts of different responses in life. For instance, there is an emergency breath, that helps us regain ourselves in an emergency. It is a deep breath through the mouth, that hapens quick, with a full exhale.

You will notice many people use this breath often, especially when there is no emergency. This puts stress on the body, as that type of breathing is not meant to be used all the time.

As you become more aware of your own breathing and the breathing of others, you begin to make some very interesting discoveries.

- Nexus

[Shooter]

Nexus, yup. ;)

[IronFist]

I need to come back and read this when I have time.

No one erase it :)

Iron

[thumper]

Earth, why didn't you give credit to Yang Jwing-Ming for writing this article?

"...either you like reincarnation or the smell of carnations..."
- Cannibal Ox

[Shooter]

hmm...

http://www.ymaa.com/pdf/YMAANews18.pdf

[mantis108]

Earth Dragon,
Nice post. Just a few thoughts...

"First, let us consider natural breathing. When youpractice Taijiquan with this breathing, your mind does not have to be focused on the breathing. This is especially important for the beginner. At this stage, they should pay attention primarily to regulating the bodyinto a more relaxed, centered, and balanced state."

Agreed in general. I don't think I would tackle this point at the moment.

"Once you have regulated your body, then you should learn how to regulate your breathing so that it is more efficient. Breathing is considered to be your strategy in Chinese Qigong. How you coordinate your breathing allows you to regulate your body and lead your Qi efficiently. There are two common ways of breathing in Taiji. The first way is called “normal abdominal breathing� or “Buddhist breathing,� while the other is called “reverse abdominal breathing� or “Daoist breathing.� In normal abdominal breathing, when you inhale the abdomen (or Dan Tian) expands, and when you exhale the abdomen withdraws. However, in reverse abdominal breathing the abdomen (or Dan Tian) withdraws when you inhale, and expands when you exhale. It is usually easier to keep your body relaxed and feeling comfortable with normal abdominal breathing, so that is the method commonly used by those who practice Taiji only for health."

Agreed in general.

"As for reverse abdominal breathing, many Taiji practitioners today falsely believe that the reverse breathing technique is against the way of the Dao. That is not true. It is simply used for different purposes. Try this simple experiment. Place one hand on your abdomen, and hold the other in front of you as if you were pushing something. Inhale deeply, and as you exhale, imagine that you are pushing a heavy object. You will easily see that, when you try to push as strongly as possible, you automatically use reverse breathing. This is the method which is commonly used in weight lifting competition. The competitors often wear a thick belt to support their abdomens and increase their power."

The belt in CMA is used to "hold" the organs in place and help stablize the back muscles to prevent back injury. But it is also true that it is used to keep the Chi in the Dan Tien while doing Iron Body (as per my Sigung).

"The rationale for reverse breathing is quite simple. You can lead a much stronger flow of Qi to the limbs and manifest more power if you also, simultaneously, direct another flow of Qi to your Dan Tian. This is in accordance with the basic law of physics which states that for every action there must be an equal and opposite reaction. If you are still not convinced, try another experiment. Blow up a balloon while holding a hand on your abdomen to see how it moves."

It would seem that you are coming from a anatomy perspective. I am wonder if you are aware that Taoist breathing derived from Chinese Comosology and medical practice; whereas, Buddhist breathing tech. (as you call it) derived from Daivian (sp?) and/or Ayur Vedic system of medical practices?

"You can see from these experiments that reversebreathing is in accordance with the Dao. It should be used whenever you need to lead Qi to the limbs to efficiently manifest power, as when fighting. Because reverse breathing expands the Qi and energizes thebody it is considered Yang, in comparison to normalbreathing which is Yin."

Da and Sui Chau Tin (large and small comosic cycles) are believed to be the reversal "the path/way" back to immortality, which is a step further that the martial application only. But then you made a fine point about the Ying/Yaug attribute of the breathing techs.

"You can see from this discussion that both normal abdominal breathing and reverse abdominal breathing are correct, depending on your purpose. It is just like how you breathe during your everyday activities. You should understand that the way you breathe is affected by your thinking and your emotions. For example, when you think of something scary, you will naturally tend to hold your breath. When you are sad, you inhale more than you exhale, and when you are excited, you exhale more than you inhale. When you are relaxed, your breathing is uniform and natural, and when you inhale your abdomen moves out, while when you exhale your abdomen moves in. However, when you intend to manifest power, or even just think about it, you automaticallychange to reverse breathing."

The breath is a link between mind and body, a third body if you will. When the mind is stressed we breath hard and shallow and vice versa. This basically an illustrations of such communication between mind and body exist.

"Theoretically, normal abdominal breathing makes you relax and allows the Qi to circulate smoothly, and reverse abdominal breathing makes you tense and excited, which allows the Qi to be manifested in your physical body. You can see from this that normal abdominal breathing can make your physical body and mind calm, which is considered a Yin practice. Naturally, reverse abdominal breathing can make youexcited and energized, and it is considered Yang."

Generally agreed. But reverse breathing can be our normal breathing too if you work hard enough.

"I therefore suggest that, if you are interested more in the health aspect of Taijiquan, you should emphasize normal abdominal breathing. However, if you practice Taijiquan for martial arts, then you must also practice reverse abdominal breathing and learn how to lead Qi to your limbs efficiently.

I agreed that Fah Jing type of martial application is better done with Taoist breathing tech. But the real benefits of the Taosit breathing tech. are far beyond just martial application. That's why ultimately it is more rewarding to learn it than the naturel breathing, that is if spirituality is involved.

Great post ED, keep it up.

Mantis108

Contraria Sunt Complementa

[Vasanth]

... You thought we wouldn't notice your sudden grasp of the rules of grammar?

[mantis108]

While plagiarism is big no no, but then I can't help but wonder why Dr. Yang's article is, for lack of a better term, so "novice friendly" to the point that I would believe it's another practitioner amongst us, not the "legendary" master that he is. No offense and if I offended anyone, I do sincerely appologize. Personally I am more concern with the quality of the work not the prestige of the authour. Pardon the big mouth of a free thinker.

Regards,

Mantis108

Contraria Sunt Complementa

[EARTH DRAGON]

I didnt say that I wrote it, I justed asked what you guys thought of it! I am not taking credit for the artical just wanted some feedback and opinons. As for saying it was written by dr Yang it would have altered the comments in which people said and had a biased outlook becuse of the author. If some posted some thing that osma bin laden said it would have negitive feedback without clearly reading what the artical said.

http://www.kungfuUSA.net

[Shooter]

I'm all for letting good information stand on its own merits. Glad I didn't know the author from Adam when I read your post and commented. Although, it wouldn't have influenced my opinion one way or the other.

So what's your point, Earth Dragon? I mean, why did you have to present another man's ideas that way?

Not trying to be confrontational. Just trying to understand your motives.

[This message was edited by Shooter on 11-03-01 at 10:23 PM.]

[Braden]

The main thing that I thought was left out is that I think it's inappropriate for beginners to be playing with taoist/reverse breathing or other advanced breathing methods.

[EARTH DRAGON]

again just wanted other's comments and or opinons on the article, no motive really just curiosity as to others point of view on breathing!
I am presently learning skin breathing from my qigong master and it is quite difficult to say the least, while I have been doing buddahist and daoist breathing from some time now I am starting to understand how the body reacts to certain breathing patterns. I do find that the metaphysical philosophy plays a great role in understanding yin and yang breathing, I am still finding difficulty alowing other organs to breath instead of the lungs. And frankly cant do it at all.....if the breath is everything than what is if it is forced to not be everything? I was hoping for some feedback and opinons that's all.

http://www.kungfuUSA.net

[les paul]

After reading this thread

I don't know about the rest of you, but I think we should have more of this type of diologue.

This sure beats

"Only I'm learning the real so an so art!"

Or

"Bjj is most superior to Gung Fu!"

This thread is what I think the caretakers of the is new group had in mind.

Once again nice post Earth dragon & co

[Shooter]

Earth Dragon, no problem...thanks. :cool:

[Aramus]

“normal abdominal breathing� or “Buddhist breathing,�
My daughter has always breathed this way. It is especially noticable when she is sleeping. Of course, this is true of most babies and toddlers. If you watch toddlers and babies, their stomach expands with a breathe and contracts when exhaling.
My question is, who teaches "us" how to do the shallow breathing? Why is this used more? I'm guessing because it is "easier" than normal or reverse breathing.

Have a good day.

[bamboo_ leaf]

I heard it said that when some one is borne:

They breathe with their stomach
As an adult they breathe with their chest
As an old adult they breathe with just their throat.

I think that tension plays a big part in the change of breathing patterns.
We seem to be enamored with hard bodies and the bigger better, stronger faster.
Life style.

Maybe not really a good a life style to follow

bamboo leaf

[mantis108]

Hey Bamboo Leaf,

I heard the same thing too! :)

How are things?

Mantis108

Contraria Sunt Complementa

[bamboo_ leaf]

Things are getting interesting here.
Good to hear from you :)

bamboo leaf

[EARTH DRAGON]

When teaching my tai chi class the first thing I ask is to raise your hand if you know how to breath..... then I tell them to put their hand down becuse they are all wrong, they laugh and ask why we know how to breath. After I explian proper breathing they have this puzzled look on their face, I say that martial artists are usually the only ones who train their bodies to do what should come natually. When we are young we breath naturally through the diaphram as we get a little older we realize that we can cheat our breathing becuse its easier but infants
dont know any better.
When you breath shallow you are using only the top of the lungs about 20% of thier full capacity. The whole idea to breathing is to take in oxygen and push out carbon dioxide, when we breath shallow we cannot fully exhale carbon dioxide this poison in our bodies rids us of full health due to insufficient intake of O2 which inturn slows down blood aeration and circulation. After a session of proper breathing you usually find you are light headed, this is due to the brain not regulating the extra amount of O2. As we get older this level of carbon increases to a point where we find it hard to expel all the carbon that is within us and force our lungs to work harder to intake the proper amount of O2 needed to perform certian yet simple tasks with in the nervous and pulmonary systems such as white blood cell circulation, cilia reproduction bronchial phlem movement and bronchiole infunibulum. So you see that proper breathing does much more than increase your lower dan tien capacity and make your tai chi look good!

It is said that a man can go 3-4 months without food.
7-14 days without water.
but only 3-4 minutes without air....
which is more important? yet extremly over looked

http://www.kungfuUSA.net

[Shooter]

Breath is the key to understanding everything. When the psychophysiological nature of one's breathing is understood, the appropriate adjustments can be made. Simple as that.

By acknowledging the reactive processes of our own personal perceptions (read: fear), we can understand what our tendencies are in dealing with the attendant stresses which arise from those instinctual responses.

Everyone's biochemistry is different, and as such, everyone will develop natural affinities to different breathing techniques (Chi Kung). Hormonal response is the nature of breath. How adjustments are made to one's adrenal production in moments of stress are going to naturally affect their energy management by the way they incorporate their relaxation response into their movment.

I breathe differently than my training partners because my morphology is different than their's. I'm prodominantly mesomorph, so I put different demands on my body under the same physical stresses than my meso/ecto/endomorphic training partners do whenever we spar/roll/push. They use breathing methods which compliment their basic morphology - Not what a Chi Kung instructor prescribe, but what their body requires.

This is only performance based application though. The health aspects are what the article discusses, but the two go hand-in-hand. To ignore Chi Kung on a performance level is to miss 50% of the benifit.

As mentioned, if Tai Chi is practiced for martial purposes, then breathing should be engineered to facilitate the proper energy management for that specific dynamic. The operative word is DYNAMIC as in dynamism, aliveness, spontaneous response, etc.

Martial Chi Kung takes a merging path toward healthful Chi Kung, but the two will always remain parallel until both are explored as separate entities. You canÕt use the same methods of Chi Kung at rest as Chi Kung at play. You canÕt stay within a comfort zone in your play, or youÕll never develop sound methods in your martial Chi Kung. The two approaches merge as oneÕs relaxation is incorporated into their martial practice. Getting out of that comfort zone is the first step. Challenging your conditioning and taking it to its limits as you stave off panic, fear, frustration, etc, will get you throught the exploratory stages as quick as can be done, and get you on a path toward breathing effectively and naturally under high performance demands. Relaxation and energy management is enhanced exponentially and continues to evolve as they're refined within the principles of Tai ChiÕs combative context.

[Shooter]

ttt

[dfedorko@mindspring.com]

Breathing is the function that most pratitioners take for granted. When performing Meditation, Iron Palm, Qigong or a Tai Chi form without proper breathing you are empty.

xiaotiema

[TaiChiBob]

greetings, fellow travelers..
Though many have contrived numerous methods of "breathing", the first noteworthy aspect of this thread is that its really, really important stuff (try not breathing)..
My own introduction to breath awareness in MA went something like this: Westerners are too concerned with image, the males seek to puffout their chests in some macho display (upper chest breathing, using only 2/3 capacity).. females likewise want to be noticed (again, same consequence). My instructor said that in the meditative fields people tend to overcomplicate the sublimely simple.. just breathe with purpose and awareness, follow the cues of nature.. when winded, we breathe abdominally (naturally).. when unconscious (sleeping) we breath abdominally (naturally). So, he assumed that it is intended, by design, that we breathe abdominally (naturally). By inhaling through the nose there is a sophisticated filter system at work, a sticky film and hairs that trap pollutants. By exhaling through the nose we maintain the necessary moisture to keep the film "sticky".
From a Tai Chi perspective, he instructed that we exhale when advancing, inhale when retreating.. even the rocking motions in the form are treated as inhale/exhale cues.. that breathing pattern follows our "intention" and requires little attention beyond first learning the ability to control breath with movement.
Complex breathing rituals are contrary to the purpose of meditation which, as i understand it, is to cease the mental processing of input and respond from a purely natural (non-predjudicial) perspective. If our attention is focused on breathing, then it is not focused the full experience before us.

Just some happy thoughts from the far-side.. be well, all.. <bows>

[PingAnTu]

When I first started Taiji I learned all the stuff most people learn -- form, push hands, etc... I thought I would get cute and bring my skills to a new level by breathing reverse all the time. I consciously practiced on it for months until it became natural and I finally unconsciously breathed that way ALL THE TIME. I breathed this way for YEARS (about 6 years). I didn't even recognise the fact that I was doing it... I just did it.

Well, I started having problems with my middle back area and the pain got so intense I could hardly get out of bed in the morning. It felt like someone was sticking a knife in my back and I was having digestive problems too. I finally went to an osteopath who also did cranial-sacral. I thought I just needed my back aligned.

He diagnosed me and told me that my diaphram was stuck and wasn't moving properly! (As a cranial-sacral practitioner, he also told me that my energy was not moving through my center shakra). He did some work on me and told me to breath with my whole lungs -- including the top portion. PROBLEM SOLVED. Well over a year of pain solved in a matter of days.

I asked my teacher about it and he said to breath reverse only when practicing. During times of rest, you should breath naturally. Thanks for telling me sooner!