OT: When did dieing become a bad thing?

[SanHeChuan]

Everything everywhere dies, or at least changes form. One day the sun will fizzle out and the earth will become lifeless. In essence, the sun won't always rise.

If everything dies how could that possibly be a bad thing? It's one of the universal truths?

If it's not a bad thing, I'm not saying it's a good thing either. I'm not advocating running out and seeking death, or blithely ignoring the consequences of death. Just accepting it, when it does come.

But I feel it is odd to fear death and to grieve for those who die?
What are you really grieving for their loss or yours?
Grieving for all the time you won't get to spend with them seems, selfish.
People die, no big whoop.

I think all the hoopla comes from the fear of death.

I think religion comes from the fear of death. If you are Christan, or whatever you believe you get to live on somewhere else, thereby eliminating the fear of death. At least to the extent of your own doubt.

Not that I don't believe in a "God". I just don't believe in an "afterlife". I think the fact that their are some universal constants equal some kind of god, but i don't want to talk about religion so much as the fear of death.

Why are people so afraid not to exist?

Is it pride, arrogance, selfishness?

Are you afraid of death?
Should we fear death?
Thoughts?
:confused:

[bonthan]

basically, people fear death because they fear the way they're gonna die, others fear death for they won't ever have a chance to enjoy what they are having in life, like family, friends and stuff.
A lot of people worry about dying because they question if there is life after death, even though many of them are Christian.

[SPJ]

"if we do not know how to live or what to live for, then how can we understand/know about death?" confuscious.

"death is the wage of sins" Bible.

"flowers did not die, they just fade away." common sayings.

--

if we fear death and we "live" in fear of death, we forget to live.

--

:eek: :)

[Chief Fox]

Get busy livin' or get busy diein'

Right now, I'm extremely busy living and am not ready to die.

I don't fear it, I just don't want it to happen yet.

As far as your thoughts on grieving go. I agree, grieving is a very selfish thing. But on the other side of that. When someone you care about dies, it's almost like a part of you has died too and sometimes, that is just..... sad.

All things will die, it's the way things work. The key is to make the most of your life. At least it is for me.

[Oso]

dude, we should have gotten together to drink some beers before you left NC.

[FuXnDajenariht]

who was it that said that death might be a more natural state of existence than life...

i suppose that depends on your definition of what death is though and what it encompasses.... ill get back to you on that one in hopefully 80 or so years.

but think about it. when living organisms die they become a part of the whole again. we return to nature. being confined to a body would be an undesirable thing. but then again thats the whole basis of alot of religions and metaphysical philosophies. buddhism, daoism, gnosticism...blah blah blah...

[Liokault]

Death means no more nekid time with women. Hence young men are more scared of death than very old men.......and who cares what women are worried about.

[Kung Pao]

Why are people so afraid not to exist?

Is it pride, arrogance, selfishness?

Are you afraid of death?
Should we fear death?
Thoughts?
:confused:

By far, we've all spent far more of the universe's existence in some other atomic configuration than these lame human bodies. From a human perspective, we've all not existed far longer than we have existed. Nevertheless, our atomic material has been around since the beginning of hte universe, and no less.

We're just like any other animal or bug. The sooner we understand that, the sooner we can get over fears of death. The best attitude towards nature is that practiced by buddhist monks. REvere everything living. Respect it as just as valid in life as yourself. But understand the workings of nature as well---we profit by eating each other. Plants are alive, therefore the virtue of vegetarianism means nothing.

I've never mourned the death of a family member. People think I'm cold and unfeeling. But I understand how life works pretty well, methinks, and the fact that my brother or mother dies does not mean I should mourn them. Mourning them is mourning their loss to me, such as I am expressing some selfish feeling. But I'm not that selfish. My mother believed in the afterlife, and she was Christian. I'm not. But when she died, I felt good for her. She believed she was going to a better place. Why is that a reason to mourn? I've never understood the wearing of black, the wailing, crying, depression, and mourning. The only tears I ever shed at a funeral sprang out of an overwhelming sense of gratitude. And where others said prayers, and said "I'm sorry." I couldn't help but keep saying: "Thank you" to the dead, and their family members.


Life's a trip. sometimes good, sometimes bad. And we'll all die. It's not a matter of acceptance or resignation, it's a matter of knowledge and humility.

[shortlee]

death has been a subject thats confused man since he started living

remember our brain is an organ that is designed to keep us alive therefore it tricks us into thinking death is bad otherwise we would not be very good at existence wold we

therefore i do NOT deny my fear of death, I do fear death, this is because my brain has told me to fear death, futhermore i am a 17 year old and being fairly unwise and of little experience in life i fear death because i havent experienced life to full yet

psychologically we are designed to fear death. theres your answer

[SPJ]

Daoism and buddhism believe that there is time for everything.

the time for the spring, summer, fall and winter.

the time to be born, young, old, sick and--

when it is time, it is time.

so when you see a baby comes to the world, we celebrate the birthdate.

oops. buddhism believes that life is full of sufferings.

so when you are young, persue actively your dreams/goals in life.

in love, hate to lose etc

so when you are old, you rest more and work less.

so when you are sick, you listen to your doctors, take medicine and get well soon.

so when you are very very sick and about to leave--

we can only hope we go in peace with no "regrets".

--

if there is no ending, there is no beginning.

if there is no death, there is no life?

:eek:

[WinterPalm]

If you look to the dynamics of our socio-cultural system you will find a very, very strong obsession with material things, including youth and health, and with the greatest value placed on materiality and with things spiritual (not religious, although religious people can be spiritual but that is a different discussion entirely) taking a lesser importance in people's lives.

The other thing is that our relationships with the dead, and the position they fill in our social lives is very limited, albeit this occurs in different forms.

To understand when dieing became a bad thing, you will have to ask "when did things or objects become more important than social relationships or people?". The answer to this is generally found in the onset of capitalism and possibly even earlier.

You also might ask when did dieing constitute a good thing? Possibly when our ancestors became spirits or gods that watch over us and hold some sort of power over our daily lives. Knowing this position we will achieve after death might make us less inclined to fear it.

Lest you consider me a marxist for the first point, I don't agree with most of marx and his later extranged followers, but it is worth considering the fetish of materiality over relationships as at least a piece in the puzzle of trying to explain our current feelings on death and why it is a bad thing.

[kwaichang]

No one ever dies what makes you you is not the body or its accomplishments it is the "thing" that makes you live forever only the biological body dies. Otherwise you would have never been , or are you. KC

[Royal Dragon]

Does self awareness continue after death?

[kwaichang]

But total awareness does. We are limited by the body to experience total awareness there is no self anymore. KC

[WinterPalm]

It is only the preceptions and beliefs that we have now that allow is to comprehend what happens after death. Asked for advice on the afterlife is based on what one does that is beneficical and not bad in the current state of living. Nobody can prove what happens afterwards...but there is a condtioned fear of bad things happening if we don't conduct ourselves as good and proper citizens...does this notion preclude questioning and ultimately rejecting dominant modes of thought and conduct? Under what guise or regime does the truth actually represent arbitrary meaning? Under what assumption is the afterlife constructed to represent? Everlasting glory? Reunitement with lost relatives? Ever expanding energy? Immersion with the totality of everlasting energy from which we came? Riches and seven virgins or whatever the number is?

Death is a great unknown that we can only understand from the framework of who and what we are...and what we are constituted of, that which is corporal and mortal, is the standpoint and guiding base from which we will attempt to understand that which we cannot pinpoint and exactly understand.

That said, I've taken a notion of seeing is believing, as that is common enough to most people on this board, but there are other ways of knowing tha cannot be as rigorously defended or argued against and which formulate the basis for the belief systems of many people.

[Kung Pao]

Does self awareness continue after death?

No.

Think about it. Do you remember much of your infant years? Nope. Why? They say these years are the one's where our minds are working the fastest, and learning even faster.

As an infant, you don't have an established sense of self. Every interaction with the world relates that which is outside of you to that which comprises you. These kinds of interactions, and how they effect you physically, emotionally, etc.....these interactions determine how you will interract with the world in the future, and establish parameters on how they will affect you. Only when one has a good sense of self do memories begin to be stored, because you have more conscious faculty free to store information. The infant mind is like a computer running 50 programs simultaneously, with precious little RAM left on the side. You can't save a file you're working on, because there's no room to process that information. Soon, however, "I" has significant meaning. As we get older, the self becomes something solid and tangible. We interract more and more. The "I"-complex drives the self. At this point, we run programs without taxing the computer's memory. There's RAM for everything under the sun, because we don't have to process as much information regarding our immediate environment. We accept things based on precepts. Hence, we have more Memory (pun intended) to store information with as it relates to an established self in an established world.

When we die, the world ceases to relate to the self, as we cease to relate to it on the level of a self. The computer shuts off, and the computer sits on the table. It can't be restarted or rebooted. The motherboard's fried.

It'll get tossed aside, taken ot the county dump, and packed in with the rest of the trash.

Or, it'll get ripped apart and recycled, and its atoms will take part in the universe once again, perhaps as parts of a squirrel, or a doorknob, or (ugggh) a square of toilet paper.

Some of you will be tomorrows douchebags.:D

[neilhytholt]

People's fear of death is what used to fill churches. Now with science they try to cheat death with modern medicine.

Fearing death ain't exactly new.

[Kung Pao]

Funny thing, the most englightened people in terms of death were often warriors.

The Stoics.
Shaolin.
Samurai.

Acceptance of death sometimes leads one to warrior arts. Warrior arts force one to confront death and accept it.

[kwaichang]

What you speak of is personality which forms early in life, the self is something else it is th original thing that gave you life the MA call it beginning or infant chi. KC

[Hishaam]

Does self awareness continue after death?

Nobody can answer that question without basing it on some kind of belief.
The only way to know is to be dead, anybody has a firsthand experience with that? :p

[SPJ]

instead of thinking about death or what happen after that.

may be to think about the love of the life and embracing life fully or whatever that mean to us.

life is a gift from our parents or the creator/god.

life is a journey there are ups and downs, joy and sadness,--

life is---

life is a chance to do something, to achieve something--

do we know life or what is life?

---

:D

[Kung Pao]

What you speak of is personality which forms early in life, the self is something else it is th original thing that gave you life the MA call it beginning or infant chi. KC

the self is part your personality.....how do you differentiate? The self is concerned with survival, part nature, part nurture, and its relation to the world. You personality is how you react to these stimuli. But you can't so simply dissect cause and effect......

[PangQuan]

I love how several different people speak with authority on a subject no living person can possible actually KNOW.

and by "know" i mean with absolute proof. not your desires, opinions or faiths.

who here can really say what happens when we die, what type of awareness if any we have?

none of you can. if you state otherwise your full of B.S. and we all know that to be a fact.

there are many different faiths, beliefs and so forth on this planet.

a christian's faith is just as strong and fully believed as a moslems faith.

to discount one would be to say that faith has no actual bearing on reality....exactly.

no one knows, and i dont mean to sound rude or anything, but who really cares?

[Golden Arms]

Is the "self" actually you? If you get your legs cut off, are you even 1% less "you" than "you" were before?

[PangQuan]

Is the "self" actually you? If you get your legs cut off, are you even 1% less "you" than "you" were before?

thats a very interesting question.

looking at it from a psych perspective, theoretically you wouldnt be you anylonger. not in the sense that your mental make up will change drastically based on losing a limb. everything you do, every new person you meet will be influenced by losing your legs. thus developing a new aspect to "you".

just a change is all.

[kwaichang]

There are those who have had near death experiences and in all meaning died what of those KC

[PangQuan]

Funny thing, the most englightened people in terms of death were often warriors.

The Stoics.
Shaolin.
Samurai.

Acceptance of death sometimes leads one to warrior arts. Warrior arts force one to confront death and accept it.

many warriors make an acceptance of death and understand it is thier way.

some of the strongest warriors have shed not one ounce of blood. Look into the eyes of some of the young children in concentration camp photo's.

dont some of these kids look like they have the eyes of a warrior?

but this is a great connection between those whos professions deal with death, and the cumulation of war during times of peace to create "arts of war"