Videos of 8-Step Forms

[lapu_squared]

Just wanted to let everyone know that Mr. Wu Er Li (Ernie) has graciously permitted us to post videos of his Zhai Yao sections 3 and 4 on the 8-Step site (http://www.8-step.com). This is the first time we've gotten permission to post these forms in public. I hope you all enjoy. As always, your comments and observations would be much appreciated.

[Three Harmonies]

Very nice! It is great to see you all so openly sharing Babu Tanglang! Kudos!
For whatever reason the link was dead, but the site is up. Maybe it was my server or something.
The only comment I have is I would like to see more app videos in regards to Babu. Other than that I think what you all are doing is great!
Cheers & Thanks,
Jake :D

[Erasmus Mingatt]

Without trying to convey disrespect..and not to open a can of worms.

If there isn't an "ok--this is cool to broadcast" statement from Grandmaster James Sun(lineage holder of 8 step)..it might behoove the gentleman at this site to ask if it is appropriate to broadcast these forms,etc.

Respectfully,
Erasmus

[lulusweeps]

Why???????

[Erasmus Mingatt]

Why you ask?

Because Grandmaster Shyun is the lineage holder and inheritor of the 8 step praying mantis style and as a student(of a sifu who studied under him)..it is only appropriate to ask if forms of the style are considered appropriate to broadcast to the public.

for more info..please see: www.8step.com

[Chizica]

Why you ask?

Because Grandmaster Shyun is the lineage holder and inheritor of the 8 step praying mantis style and as a student(of a sifu who studied under him)..it is only appropriate to ask if forms of the style are considered appropriate to broadcast to the public.



Not to open another can of Ba Bu worms, but you may want to do some Heavy research Erasmus. The site that Lapu created under the permission of Shifu John Chang, has nothing to do with the Shyun version of 8 step. Shyun is a great MA, but not the sole inheritor of the system.

Please see www.babutanglang.com for more information that can compliment www.8-step.com. I think it may educate you, not in a bad way, but educate you none the less.

Lulu...Hey Shifu....are you training again at all anywhere? I have been mad busy.

Christian

[Three Harmonies]

Erasmus
Shyun is NOT the sole the lineage holder of anything! That is propaganda he has brainwashed alot of his students with! This is America bro, no one needs to ask permission to do ****!
:rolleyes: :cool:

[Erasmus Mingatt]

First,

Thank you both for sharing. Second..it was not my intention to inflame anyone..merely to comment. Third..doesn't a style generally have an individual to whom the lineage is passed?

Were this not so..just about anyone who studied with the man can claim they are the head honcho..

Last--if I have misinterpreted and this other gentleman is affiliated with a different 8 step or some variant--that's possible also.

I am only reporting what I have been told..nothing more.

Are you saying that any style of kung fu can have more than one lineage holder?

Case in point...look at the Eagle Claw of Lau Fat Man--(NOT the Leung Fu lineage)..Lily Lau is the inheritor of the Lau Fat Man lineage..

There is a general passing of information from one grandmaster and upon his/her request..the style is handed down and (usually) upon his/her passing..a new inheritor of the system is chosen..

According to your statements..it's like Lau Fat Man saying "I will choose as my successor.. Lily Lau and also Ronald McDonald and also "The Man In the Moon"...


Well..I guess it is possible..but I just don't see how

Yip Man taught alot of people and certified many sifus and masters in his wing chun lineage..but the last I looked..it was his son Yip Chun who is the lineage holder of Yips' family tree. I don't seem to remember Leung Ting saying that because he studied with Yip that he is the inheritor of Yips' family tree(actually..knowing his self aggrandizing statements..that might be a possibility--LOL)
..

Blessings to all

[Three Harmonies]

An art is not a football, it cannot be "passed" it is taught. Once it is taught it becomes that students essence. This is not some sacred chalice! It is an individual art form. Many people here in the west get all wrapped up in this "mystic asian family secrets death touch from hell qi orbs of doom" type mentality.
But sticking with your question.....my teacher has three disciples. His teacher had many, many disciples. There is no ONE anything. Well I guess we are all ONE but that is waxing a different philosophy I suppose;)

Cheers
Jake :cool:

[neilhytholt]

Erasmus
Shyun is NOT the sole the lineage holder of anything! That is propaganda he has brainwashed alot of his students with! This is America bro, no one needs to ask permission to do ****!
:rolleyes: :cool:

Sometimes to keep on speaking terms with your martial arts teacher you are required to abide by his rules, are you not?

Especially if you expect him to back you up on the fact that you studied with him and were ranked and all of that.

So you can say 'This is America', but so what? If your teacher tells you not to show a form, and you do it, he can still disown you, say you never studied, not talk to you, etc, right?

[zhangxihuan]

Sometimes to keep on speaking terms with your martial arts teacher you are required to abide by his rules, are you not?

Especially if you expect him to back you up on the fact that you studied with him and were ranked and all of that.

So you can say 'This is America', but so what? If your teacher tells you not to show a form, and you do it, he can still disown you, say you never studied, not talk to you, etc, right?



I'd say if a teacher is that petty to "disown" a student because he/she showed someone a form then they are quite shallow.

I think people get too wrapped up in the great "secrecy" of forms. Forms should not be a secret. Besides, just because you see a form does not mean you know what the moves are used for, or how to properly execute them.

any "master" who disowns a student because of something so petty as showing a form shouldnt be called a "master" to begin with, they are more like a "thug."

[Michael Dasargo]

Hi Chas,

Thank you, Chang Shifu, and Mr. Wu Er Li for sharing. Your efforts to preserve and promote Babu TLQ will continue to benefit the 8-Step family.

M.Dasargo

[Three Harmonies]

No one owns me brother! Thats a simple fact. :cool:

[neilhytholt]

No one owns me brother! Thats a simple fact. :cool:

You realize it's a little ironic considering before you were arguing for the validity of disciples and 'closed door'. If you don't have to think about what your instructor wants or ask permission before teaching or teaching a form, then you aren't really a disciple or a 'closed door' student. (Or you are a soon to be kicked out one).

[neilhytholt]

I'd say if a teacher is that petty to "disown" a student because he/she showed someone a form then they are quite shallow.

I think people get too wrapped up in the great "secrecy" of forms. Forms should not be a secret. Besides, just because you see a form does not mean you know what the moves are used for, or how to properly execute them.

any "master" who disowns a student because of something so petty as showing a form shouldnt be called a "master" to begin with, they are more like a "thug."

It's not really a matter of shallow or something. It's a matter of control and making $$$ off of students.

The only part of it that at all seems valid is that a lot of people seem to teach forms when they're not really ready to teach.

[Three Harmonies]

Apparently with time you get no more intelligent. My relationship with my teachers is my business and theirs. I do not need to ask permission to do ****. I have their blessings to teach what I have been taught. ASking permission has nothing to do with discipleship.
I really wish Gene would start considering banning idiots on this board. Tedious anymore.

Jake :cool:

[neilhytholt]

Apparently with time you get no more intelligent. My relationship with my teachers is my business and theirs. I do not need to ask permission to do ****. I have their blessings to teach what I have been taught. ASking permission has nothing to do with discipleship.
I really wish Gene would start considering banning idiots on this board. Tedious anymore.

Jake :cool:

You know, I don't think it's YOU who gets it. People on this board who are not teaching or writing articles are the CUSTOMERS, are they not?

You might want to start being a little nicer to the customers instead of calling them idiots.

[Three Harmonies]

Remind me again when was the last time you were a customer of mine?? Oh thats right, NEVER.
You are a troll that slips around KFO and basically whines and cries about all sorts of things you do not know about. I would personally appreciate it if you would not respond to my posts, but it is a free world.
Other than the trolls on this board I am super nice to all, just ask around.
Jake :cool:

[Redfish]

neilhytholt's comments are rational and not trolling at all. Most teachers and students of the varying levels have agreements wether spoken or not including having their blessing.

Replying to rational comments and on-point questions with stuff like "this is America" and "I don't need permission to do ****" is typical of your interactions on this board, Jake.

Talking of being on-point, though, Jake has full rights to post about and query vids on this forum as he does often provide vids himself that often include applications. Also, the 8-step sites linked clearly show Master Shyun and Master Wu as being in parallel on the lineage and not 'needing' to consult each other on such matters within reasonable expectations.

[Erasmus Mingatt]

" Once it is taught it becomes that students essence."

Yes--but that is not what I am referring to. You seem to think that I am saying an art should be prohibited from being taught. Not so.

"This is not some sacred chalice! It is an individual art form."

Again..no dispute here.

"Many people here in the west get all wrapped up in this "mystic asian family secrets death touch from hell qi orbs of doom" type mentality. "


This is ALSO not what I am saying. Before a grandmaster of a system dies..it is generally accepted that this grandmaster chooses an heir to the system so that when said grandmaster dies..he passes it on to keep it alive and taught properly.
(see above my post with GM Lau Fat Man of Ying Jow Pai).

If Grandmaster Shyun is not the lineage holder..fine..but who IS then?

Me thinks..that if he were not..he would have lost alot of credibility in the kung fu community and consequently would have taken much flak for such claims.

[lulusweeps]

He has lost all credibility and has taken a lot of flak.

[BeiTangLang]

Thanks for the original posters intent to share 8-step information.

I look forward to seeing more attempts at a unified mantis community regardless of family.

Oh,...and Jake,...who are you trying to kid?? You hate everyone just like I do! LOL!:D

[Three Harmonies]

I hate everyone equally bro;)

[lapu_squared]

Erasmus:

Thanks for asking. Your question is a good one and deserves a straight-forward answer: Some lineages may have a sole inheritor, but 8-Step does not. GM Wei did not formally pass "ownership" of the system to anyone before he died, and that was most likely deliberate. James Shyun is a good martial artist and I wouldn't suggest otherwise. However, he's not the "sole inheritor" of 8-Step.

Also, to address your core concern, we always try our best to get the appropriate permission from the appropriate people whenever we post a video or a picture.

BTW, if you, your teacher, or James Shyun ever want to post videos or pictures on 8-step.com, you're more than welcome to do so. Please just send me a PM and we can coordinate it. We would be very happy to include more from James Shyun's kung fu family. Of course, in that case, we would require you to get permission from James Shyun first, since you do owe that debt of respect to whoever teaches you what you're showing.

Hope this helps.

[EarthDragon]

Erasmas, Please Read

Eramas,
allow me to answer your questions as I was one of James Shyun's private students who has been trained and ranked by him in 8 step as well as lived with him at the old school after Irving St. in San Francisco in the mid 90's.

For many years since I can remember Shyun told us that he was master Wei's private student and sole inheritor of the 8 step system. many of us with no other knowledge beleived him and spent many years of our lives learning from him Dean espsically who studied under him for 18 years.

After the invention of the internet was when we finally found out that thier were other students of master Wei anbd who had studied much longer than Shyun and who had pics and videos to prove this. Shyun one time told me that he had hand written manuscripts past down from Chiang Hualong and Feng Hua Yi, although asking many times to see them he would never show anybody. Nor did I ever see pictures of them together which puzzled me. Then after speaking with some of master Wei's other students I come to find out that many of the stories he has told us over the past twenty years were indeed grossly embellished and even made up.

I respect him as a teacher and love him for what he has taught me. Some of the techniques and forms are true and some are not true eight step. I respect him for being my teacher and what he has taught me but at the same time feel betrayed having been lied to for so many years.


Last--if I have misinterpreted and this other gentleman is affiliated with a different 8 step or some variant--that's possible also.

There is no variant or different version of eight step they are all the same. Much of Shuyns eight step has been embellished and watered down and made up to compensate for the lack of knowledge, simply due to Shuyn not learning the enter system of eight step from Master Wei.

I am only reporting what I have been told..nothing more.

I understand and respect this, for that was my position from the eighties all the way up till the year 2000.

I have been around since Kevin Loftus was a yellow sash, learning in Clarence, NY. Though we share different views I respect him and what he is trying to accomplish. If you have any further questions about me, Shyun or the version of eight step which you are learning just feel free to ask.

PS. thank you Lapu_squared for sharing the information that you have been given with the rest of us.

[Ronin BaBu]

Excellent videos and thank you for posting them.

As far as the other debates taking place in this thread I'd just like to comment on the whole secrecy issue. It is a major reason why people are turned OFF by Traditional Martial Arts. They go to a TEACHER, who won't TEACH them certain forms or techniques because they are 'secret' or something of the sort.

Yet, the same person can to to a boxing gym or sanshou gym, or an MMA gym, and can learn from a teacher who will teach everything they know to students.

Traditional Martial Arts teachers need to evolve their way of thinking or they will become extinct, and die out to MMA which is already taking over. Eight Step is a rare case of TMA because it was sort of a prototype for MMA. In the beginning, mantis was mixed with Hsing-I and Bagua, and Taiji elements were added, as well as other elements. I feel it is a great style that allows for adaption. I was honestly shocked to see the second post in this thread suggesting that it is WRONG to share or show your style.

So what, when you get in a fight, can you only use Chi Sao, the first form because you don't want an opponent to see techniques from a more advanced form? How foolish. I really get angry when people act so high and mighty with Tradition Martial Arts because it gives the rest of us practicioners a bad name.

[zhangxihuan]

Excellent videos and thank you for posting them.

As far as the other debates taking place in this thread I'd just like to comment on the whole secrecy issue. It is a major reason why people are turned OFF by Traditional Martial Arts. They go to a TEACHER, who won't TEACH them certain forms or techniques because they are 'secret' or something of the sort.

Yet, the same person can to to a boxing gym or sanshou gym, or an MMA gym, and can learn from a teacher who will teach everything they know to students.

Traditional Martial Arts teachers need to evolve their way of thinking or they will become extinct, and die out to MMA which is already taking over. Eight Step is a rare case of TMA because it was sort of a prototype for MMA. In the beginning, mantis was mixed with Hsing-I and Bagua, and Taiji elements were added, as well as other elements. I feel it is a great style that allows for adaption. I was honestly shocked to see the second post in this thread suggesting that it is WRONG to share or show your style.

So what, when you get in a fight, can you only use Chi Sao, the first form because you don't want an opponent to see techniques from a more advanced form? How foolish. I really get angry when people act so high and mighty with Tradition Martial Arts because it gives the rest of us practicioners a bad name.

I agree... I've gone to traditional schools and have been turned off by people who claim to know "secret moves," or worse yet, teachers who manipulate students into staying for 15 years by holding out the "move" carrot as I like to call it.

[Three Harmonies]

It will be the death of CMA if teachers do not start to change their attitudes about secrets, cross training, ground work etc.
The type of students that CMA are attracting as opposed to BJJ is quite different! We (CMA-ists) need to re-evaluate our attitudes and teaching methodologies!
Good posts Ronin and Zhang!
Jake :cool: