Obese Sifu?

[zhangxihuan]

Ok, I'm not sure if anyone else has encountered such things, but I used to have a sifu who was obese (at least 40+ pounds overweight). The supposed master claimed he was model of fitness, and proceeded to "make fun of" all people about his size and some even smaller than himself. I'm not sure, but if you practice Kung Fu you shouldn't be "obese" unless you have a metabolic problem you aren't telling anyone about, and since people with metabolic problems are few and far between, isn't it a oxymoron to be an "obese sifu?"

Just wondering if anyone else has encountered something like this other than myself.

[BruceSteveRoy]

i don't think it matters. if his weight doesnt get in the way of his ability to use and teach his kung fu than it is a moot point. however, i think it is irresponsible and unprofessional for a sifu to taunt or make fun of a student for his/her weight (or for any reason really). so that is kind of messed up. but yeah i know some pretty hefty dudes that can do some really good kung fu and can move really well. and when they put their weight in to a strike they can do some damage. and you can be in good health and still be over weight. you arent in peak health obviously but you can still have the strength, endurance, cardio and pulmaonary capabilities and still be carrying extra weight.

[Adventure427]

Yea i used to think all big guys were slow...but then when i went to this trade school i found out ALOT of big guys are D-A-M-N FAST. My 1 buddy up there used to beat people in slap boxing 1 handed all the time while the other guy used 2 hands and he could kick VERY well, it was a shocker because he always walked around sluggish n slow looking....but when he wanted to he could MOVE

[neilhytholt]

If he's being hypocritical about this, is he being hypocrotical in other areas as well?

Because if he's not being realistic about his weight, shrugging it off and laughing and putting other people down, then perhaps he isn't being realistic about other things as well, such as training, applications, etc.

If so, then I'd say "danger danger". Run out of the door and never come back.

I wouldn't say somebody just being overweight don't study with them, but if they're not realistic about it and that carries over into other aspects of their teachings, then that would be a warning sign.

Unless they can't do moves right because of a lack of fitness. That IS a reason to quit.

[zhangxihuan]

If he's being hypocritical about this, is he being hypocrotical in other areas as well?

Because if he's not being realistic about his weight, shrugging it off and laughing and putting other people down, then perhaps he isn't being realistic about other things as well, such as training, applications, etc.

If so, then I'd say "danger danger". Run out of the door and never come back.

I wouldn't say somebody just being overweight don't study with them, but if they're not realistic about it and that carries over into other aspects of their teachings, then that would be a warning sign.

Unless they can't do moves right because of a lack of fitness. That IS a reason to quit.

oh well I dont go there anymore. They were very hypocritical with other things as well....not to mention were unable to show proper stances to students.(such as a drop stance).. so I left.

[SevenStar]

however, i think it is irresponsible and unprofessional for a sifu to taunt or make fun of a student for his/her weight (or for any reason really). so that is kind of messed up.

I know this is a different issue, but this is why I don't like the whole CMA familial structure. Our coaches and students joke with eachother like this all the time. It's been like this at every sport club I have attended or visited. With the TMA I've been involved with, such jokes were taboo.

[BruceSteveRoy]

there is a differnece with joking with people and making fun of them. if the person being made fun of thinks your being a d!ck and takes offense at what is said than for all intents and purposes you are being a d!ck. i just think its not a good way to keep students or maintain moral. now if the person jokes back or laughs at it than yeah game on.

[Chief Fox]

Overweight or stocky IMO is acceptable. Obese is NOT!

Why?

Several reasons.
1. it's irresposible and just plain unhealthy. I don't care how fast they can move or how powerful they are.

2. Many kung fu schools have (should have) rigorous training programs and the sifu should hold himself to the same standards.

3. Kung fu is more than just a way to fight. It's a life style. Being obese isn't a part of that life style.

4. A sifu should set a good example for their students. Being obese is NOT a good example.

All that being said. Many sifu are older males. It's a fact that when when males get older their metabolism slows and they develop fat around the belly. IMO, this is 100% acceptable.

Just my $0.02.

[BruceSteveRoy]

what if they are samoan? i hear that culturally being bigger is better. of course i could be wrong but i recall hearing that somewhere. should there study of martial arts conflict with their societal norms? not stating opinion here just playing devil's advocate.

[The Willow Sword]

My first real kung fu teacher had and im pretty sure still has a buddha belly. it did not slow him down at all, he moved like lightning and was very strong, chi and muscle wise. So i dont judge based on the weight so much. i mean unless the teacher is really obese, i mean like 400lbs obese, but how many Martial art teachers are that obese? i mean most of the hsing i and pakua players i have met and played around with were thick guys that carried their weight well.

hehe i asked one of them once about the whole big gut thing and i was told " oh thats just a sign of good Chi Storage:D "

Peace,TWS

[zhangxihuan]

well a "buddha belly" is quite different from someone who is large all over and eats cheeseburgers in front of students... =p..

[onyomi]

There's a big difference between being a little overweight and obese. This guy is at least 40 lbs. overweight but I'd be happy to study with him cuz he looks awesome:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=PyvrJA-Ifr0

There's a good chance he may have joint problems, diabetes, etc. in the future if he doesn't trim down a bit, but for the time being he can still move great and, more importantly has knowledge he can transmit to you.

[SevenStar]

Overweight or stocky IMO is acceptable. Obese is NOT!

Why?

Several reasons.
1. it's irresposible and just plain unhealthy. I don't care how fast they can move or how powerful they are.

2. Many kung fu schools have (should have) rigorous training programs and the sifu should hold himself to the same standards.

3. Kung fu is more than just a way to fight. It's a life style. Being obese isn't a part of that life style.

4. A sifu should set a good example for their students. Being obese is NOT a good example.

All that being said. Many sifu are older males. It's a fact that when when males get older their metabolism slows and they develop fat around the belly. IMO, this is 100% acceptable.

Just my $0.02.

kungfuis typically not trained in the same manner that a sport art is. you don't need monster cardio to end a fight quickly, thus it would not surprise me to see obese sifu.

kung fu is indeed a lifestyle, but who deemed that fitness is part of said lifestyle?

if most of his students are there to learn to fight and he is a good teacher, then how is he a bad example?

[Chief Fox]

kungfuis typically not trained in the same manner that a sport art is. you don't need monster cardio to end a fight quickly, thus it would not surprise me to see obese sifu.

kung fu is indeed a lifestyle, but who deemed that fitness is part of said lifestyle?

if most of his students are there to learn to fight and he is a good teacher, then how is he a bad example?
Everything I said is just my opinion. I personally just feel that if you are teaching a physical activity that you yourself should be in good physical condition.

There are always exceptions. When I used to swim at the Y, there was this huge guy who was always there. I mean HUGE! But this guy was so smooth in the water. I would have taken swim lessons from him any day.

I do agree that you don't have to be long a lean to know how to fight. Look at George Foreman

Maybe I'm biased. Don't know. Just my personal opinion.

[Li Kao]

Look at George Foreman

Not that he is a professional fighter or sifu, but another good example would be Sammo Hung -- he has always amazed me that a guy his size could move the way he does, even to this day.

[Bagua8]

My m.a. teacher is pretty big but he is rock solid, he let us poke his ribs and abdomen for proof

[Kung Pao]

Not that he is a professional fighter or sifu, but another good example would be Sammo Hung -- he has always amazed me that a guy his size could move the way he does, even to this day.

Exactly, that guy could move. But imagine how much faster he would have moved if he shed some pounds and put some more time in physically conditioning.

You can be in great condition yet be overweight. But it means that you're also giving a little in the way of discipline, either not conditioning much, or eating irresponsibly. Either way, fif you're a sifu, that's a bad precedent to set.

I firmly believe this, especially as conditioning is part of kung fu's appeal nowadays. You don't have to be a male model, buy you shouldn't be overweight unless you have physical injuries that prevent this.

[neilhytholt]

Exactly, that guy could move. But imagine how much faster he would have moved if he shed some pounds and put some more time in physically conditioning.

You can be in great condition yet be overweight. But it means that you're also giving a little in the way of discipline, either not conditioning much, or eating irresponsibly. Either way, fif you're a sifu, that's a bad precedent to set.

I firmly believe this, especially as conditioning is part of kung fu's appeal nowadays. You don't have to be a male model, buy you shouldn't be overweight unless you have physical injuries that prevent this.

In some other countries like Africa, China and India, being overweight isn't considered a bad thing. It means you have enough food to eat.

Actually, more than enough, so it's kindof a status symbol in a way.

[xcakid]

I tend to be skeptical of an instructor that is overweight. A few pounds sure. A spare tire, maybe. But overweight. Come on!!! If you just do all your forms, from white to your current rank, 3X a week. You should be able to maintain your weight. Watch what you eat and you should be able to lose weight. If an instructor works out with his class instead of walking around with his/her arms crossed, or sitting in his/her office and letting others teach his/her class, he/she should be in pretty decent shape. There is no excuse. An instructor needs to set an example.

[SevenStar]

Exactly, that guy could move. But imagine how much faster he would have moved if he shed some pounds and put some more time in physically conditioning.

You can be in great condition yet be overweight. But it means that you're also giving a little in the way of discipline, either not conditioning much, or eating irresponsibly. Either way, fif you're a sifu, that's a bad precedent to set.

I firmly believe this, especially as conditioning is part of kung fu's appeal nowadays. You don't have to be a male model, buy you shouldn't be overweight unless you have physical injuries that prevent this.

It doesn't set a bad precedent. Actually, it helps. Look at the way you guys talk about masters and sifu on this forum - like they are gods. I've been to schools where they are seen as such as well. they are supposed to be this, they are supposed to be that, they've never heard about a fight he'd lost, etc... an overweight sifu shows that no, they aren't perfect - nothing wrong with that. If he was overweight AND he sucked - then he would be setting a bad precedent, IMO.

[SevenStar]

I tend to be skeptical of an instructor that is overweight. A few pounds sure. A spare tire, maybe. But overweight. Come on!!! If you just do all your forms, from white to your current rank, 3X a week. You should be able to maintain your weight. Watch what you eat and you should be able to lose weight. If an instructor works out with his class instead of walking around with his/her arms crossed, or sitting in his/her office and letting others teach his/her class, he/she should be in pretty decent shape. There is no excuse. An instructor needs to set an example.

Same thing I said above - fitness is not the example - fighting is. Now, if we were talking about personal trainers, I would not train under an obese one. But for martial arts, the example is fighting. Foreman is overweight, but he could be my boxing coach any day.

As an instructor, I can say that it is hard working out with the class. I do warm ups with them and work in when we spar - but it's sometimes hard to do the drilling with them, because you have to watch everyone so you can make corrections. you can rotate every few rounds, but we don't always do partner rotation when drilling. that said, I have to train outside of class to keep in shape - but not everyone has that kind of time. you used to have your own school, so you should know this.

[dougadam]

Overweight or stocky IMO is acceptable. Obese is NOT!

Why?

Several reasons.
1. it's irresposible and just plain unhealthy. I don't care how fast they can move or how powerful they are.

2. Many kung fu schools have (should have) rigorous training programs and the sifu should hold himself to the same standards.

3. Kung fu is more than just a way to fight. It's a life style. Being obese isn't a part of that life style.

4. A sifu should set a good example for their students. Being obese is NOT a good example.

All that being said. Many sifu are older males. It's a fact that when when males get older their metabolism slows and they develop fat around the belly. IMO, this is 100% acceptable.

Just my $0.02.

I totally agree Chief Fox

[Iman01]

I agree that a sifu should be fit. People take martial arts for a lot of reasons but physical fitness is probably the most common.

I can see how getting obese could easily happen to an instructor. After expending my energy to get a less than motivated student to work out, I have a hard time finding motivation to work out myself.

[Sifu Darkfist]

what if they are samoan? i hear that culturally being bigger is better. of course i could be wrong but i recall hearing that somewhere. should there study of martial arts conflict with their societal norms? not stating opinion here just playing devil's advocate.

Nice to see real reasoning begin to flourish.
Of course culture has a lot to do with it there are man people that are genetically bigger in more ways than one.

WHo sets the standard for acceptable size? those ridiculous models that starve themselves and spend hours in the gym working on enhancing individual muscles but have no functional strength.

I think the somoan quote is perfect, as well as mongolian or northern Chinese.

Or what about those huge swedes? or ICelander's are they unacceptable because they do not fit a models childish view of the perfect body?

I venture to say many on here would last less than a second with an oversized Russian or Mandarin Wrestler

For what its worth

[SevenStar]

People take martial arts for a lot of reasons but physical fitness is probably the most common.

yeah, that's one of life's little paradoxes.

[Shadow Skill]

Peronaly I've played sports and had that fat a$$ coach, Run this... squat that...Bench this. And I've also had coaches that tell you the same and actually do the work out with you. I've noticed these people tend to get people to push themselves harder and get more respect from thir players / students.

To me its the same with healthcare, wouldn't go to a fat, drinking, smoking doctor
or personal trainer, or massage therapist.

Wouldn't train with lazy, undiciplined, out of shape sifu.

[Shadow Skill]

As an instructor, I can say that it is hard working out with the class. I do warm ups with them and work in when we spar - but it's sometimes hard to do the drilling with them, because you have to watch everyone so you can make corrections. you can rotate every few rounds, but we don't always do partner rotation when drilling.

Good point. I know exactly what you mean, but it sounds like when you're not making corrections you join in.

[FooFighter]

I have do not have a problem from learning martial arts from "fat" instructors. If they can teach you and you can learn something good from him or her, than I do not see what is the problem. Would you take his or her dietary advice? Mmm I do not think so...

[PangQuan]

i will always remember my first kung fu teacher.

while we were in stances, or practicing our forms on our own or doing two man drills

often times he was just lying on the floor doing sit ups or some such.

got a tummy? well instead of standing there watching or going in another room, watch AND work out.

of course this is the kind of guy who regularly runs 10 miles does more than a thousand sit ups each day, swims several miles etc....

a true model of physical fitness.

most begining students can only be so lucky to find someone as serious as to take thier fighting art to the level of personal perfection and settling for no less.

hell, ive seen students who demonstrate better physical awareness than many teachers do.

i think at some point it gets more difficult with age to keep it up, many people say "meh, i can still do the moves and have power"

so they get lazy and stop doing a thousand sit ups a day.

its thier loss, and sometimes thier students as well.

i was fortunate to build my kungfu foundation under someone who expected the best you had to offern and would not settle for less.

[bung bo]

I remember one of my shixiong in Taiwan was a pretty fat dude, but he could move very fast and kick gracefully up over his head, but I don't really have any idea of his cardio conditioning as I never really saw him go all out for more than a minute or so. A great Bagua guy named Wang Ju Shin (i think that was his name) was pretty fat and was reputed to have great skill.

It is one thing to have power and be able fight like a bat out of he11 for a couple of minutes and quite another to have a good cardio level and can roll on the matt for a while.

I would want to see this fat shifu's skill and movement and then I would decide to learn from him. I, personally, would be more inclined to want to train under someone who is fit (sorely lacking in the CMA community) and can back it up. That said, I was proud when I attended a MA tourney and saw that my 50-year-old shifu was the fittest guy in the building.

[doug maverick]

baddest fat man in the history of martial arts and beat the living **** out of all those japanese fighters and he was three hundred pounds. he was so fat he broke peoples backs with his belly.