mma fighter gets reality check

[Black Jack II]

Guess this is what happens when your attitude overshadows the real world and people don't automatically subjugate themselves to the bad$$ reality you perceive yourself to live in.

If you read the article you can see this guy had some issues and felt his fighter lifestyle extended into the realm of dumbf@ckery.

It's not as bad as what happened to Alex Gong and his headtrip about chasing down car thiefs but whatever.

http://www.wrestling-news.com/artman/publish/article_3312.shtml

[SevenStar]

that was his wwe hot headedness coming out of him. in any event, hopefully he learned something. now he's 1 - 2 in the ring and 0 - 1 in teh 57R337.

[Scott R. Brown]

This is exactly what I have been talking about on this BB for years. There is a difference between a duel and a REAL fight with REAL bad guys. The bad guys will do whatever it takes to win. They prefer any down and dirty form of attack including sneaking up on you with surprise attacks. The assailant probably would have had his clock cleaned in the ring, but in the real world surprise and tactics are used to ensure victory and bad guys will do whatever it takes to win. The result here is a possibly ended career.

[neilhytholt]

This is exactly what I have been talking about on this BB for years. There is a difference between a duel and a REAL fight with REAL bad guys. The bad guys will do whatever it takes to win. They prefer any down and dirty form of attack including sneaking up on you with surprise attacks. The assailant probably would have had his clock cleaned in the ring, but in the real world surprise and tactics are used to ensure victory and bad guys will do whatever it takes to win. The result here is a possibly ended career.

It's not like most MA schools would prepare anybody better, would they? With what little apps practice they have.

At any rate, whatever. The problem with TMA IMHO is just teachers and lack of apps practice. The solution -- there is no solution, is there? There will probably just be a proliferation of MMA schools.

[Scott R. Brown]

Hi Neil,

Well that has always been my point. The MMA crowd likes to criticize TCM and my point has been that they are not necessarily any more prepared than anyone else.

You must understand your enemy in order to be prepared to fare well against them in combat!

[neilhytholt]

Hi Neil,

Well that has always been my point. The MMA crowd likes to criticize TCM and my point has been that they are not necessarily any more prepared than anyone else.

You must understand your enemy in order to be prepared to fare well against them in combat!

Somehow admitting that everyone sucks doesn't seem to help matters any.

[Black Jack II]

It's not like most MA schools would prepare anybody better, would they? With what little apps practice they have.

There is a big difference between traditional ma, mma and the context of enviromental self defense. Both traditional ma and mma players act like they have the specific banknote to dealing with violent crime.

The hyperactiveness of crime goes far beyond the physical side of traditional martial art applications and how ring fight conditioning leads to better warriors. The best path is in the middle of the road where you have the most room to be heedfull.

[neilhytholt]

.

There is a big difference between traditional ma, mma and the context of enviromental self defense. Both traditional ma and mma players act like they have the specific banknote to dealing with violent crime.

The hyperactiveness of crime goes far beyond the physical side of martial art applications and ring fight conditioning debates. The best path is in the middle of the road where you have the most room to be heedfull.

All these discussions are just stupid. Guns win fights. Fights don't win fights.

Bottom line is who cares if BJJ or MMA would beat anything? People with guns kill people. People without guns die.

[Black Jack II]

Bottom line is who cares if BJJ or MMA would beat anything? People with guns kill people. People without guns die

That's not what I am talking about. It's about making smart lifestyle choices.

[Judge Pen]

Well, I'm sure alcohol played a huge role in all of this. Intoxication diminsihes any amount of training you have.

[Shaolinlueb]

in before lock ;)

[neilhytholt]

That's not what I am talking about. It's about making smart lifestyle choices.

Oh, you mean not being an angry 'roid head... That's another issue entirely. LOL

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

people are ass holes before they use gear. gear just makes them bigger ass holes. and i mean that litterally ... they are simply larger d1ckheads. roid rage is a myth.

getting that out of the way i dont see what this proves. some dude got jacked. it happens. maybe it was the element of surprise as scott was saying, maybe it was a lucky punch, or maybe the guy he picked on just happened to be a real bad ass who could hit like a truck. not everyone who can throw a punch has a professional ring career.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

bad guys will do whatever it takes to win.

not just bad guys. smart people will do whatever it takes as well.

[neilhytholt]

people are ass holes before they use gear. gear just makes them bigger ass holes. and i mean that litterally ... they are simply larger d1ckheads. roid rage is a myth.

getting that out of the way i dont see what this proves. some dude got jacked. it happens. maybe it was the element of surprise as scott was saying, maybe it was a lucky punch, or maybe the guy he picked on just happened to be a real bad ass who could hit like a truck. not everyone who can throw a punch has a professional ring career.

Or maybe it is a roid rage driven guy who liked to talk crap a lot and finally pushed the guy too far. Hey, finally a bully got his comeuppance. Great show.

[Mr Punch]

This story doesn't prove anything.

It has nothing to do with any perceived MMA vs TMA debate.

It has nothing to do with any 'alive'ness debate.

It has nothing to do with beating a criminal mindset.

It has little to do with the so-called r33l l33t 5tr33t, and more to do with the trouble with being drunk.

It is just a couple of drunken guys (and let's be honest, the MMAer is primarily a show wrestler), one of whom hit the other with one good/lucky punch, which broke the other's eye socket.

Thank you. You can all go home now.

[JetLi'sFearless]

Like Ive been saying, size/strengh and pure agressiveness/how violent you are is what really determines who wins in the fight, its almost all mental, and the rest msotly how you physiclaly look like not what uve been trinaing in the gym tha tmost liekly will go out in the fight anywaya s you try to survive ratehr than win in such an encounter.

[JetLi'sFearless]

This is exactly what I have been talking about on this BB for years. There is a difference between a duel and a REAL fight with REAL bad guys. The bad guys will do whatever it takes to win. They prefer any down and dirty form of attack including sneaking up on you with surprise attacks. The assailant probably would have had his clock cleaned in the ring, but in the real world surprise and tactics are used to ensure victory and bad guys will do whatever it takes to win. The result here is a possibly ended career.

not only that but they will take shots to the face full on just to egt close to u and use their size advantage, and wont even flinch casue they have so much more adrenaline than in sparring for exmaple.

[JetLi'sFearless]

Somehow admitting that everyone sucks doesn't seem to help matters any.

well here is the solution even as Bruce Lee put it, get in lots of street fight to gain experience (also growing up in a hood and being hardened helps, and having a killer instinct also helps not backing out, etc.) One solution is do what I dio, try attacking and fighting pedophiles that should be dead anyway.

[neilhytholt]

try attacking and fighting pedophiles that should be dead anyway.

Uh, okay ... obviously you have some issues ... not that there's anyone who probably doesn't, just that even talking about such a thing isn't a great idea.

Obviously, since a lot of other people have mentioned a lack of fight practice in their school, this is not an isolated problem. However, picking random fights on the street probably isn't a good solution.

[Mr Punch]

However, picking random fights on the street probably isn't a good solution.Shhh! It's all part of the KFM's social experiment to see how long it takes to get a ball-less largely untrained and indisciplined sociopathic scrub stabbed/shot in a street fight. Social Darwinism!

[JetLi'sFearless]

pedophiles are generally cowards who dont have access to wepaons or know how to use them, plus ex convixtx cant own them Id ont think as u need a license. Oh and u can just look up where they live on fmaily watchdog.org even has a picture of them.

[neilhytholt]

Shhh! It's all part of the KFM's social experiment to see how long it takes to get a ball-less largely untrained and indisciplined sociopathic scrub stabbed/shot in a street fight. Social Darwinism!

Aha, well if you really want to screw your life over royally, why look for street fights? Go all the way, get married or join the army or something. Don't do it half-assed.

[neilhytholt]

pedophiles are generally cowards who dont have access to wepaons or know how to use them, plus ex convixtx cant own them Id ont think as u need a license. Oh and u can just look up where they live on fmaily watchdog.org even has a picture of them.

Yeah, and of course pedophiles are criminals so of course they always follow the law and what their probation officers tell them.

They should probably have some sort of fight clubs or something, but that wouldn't be very sanitary.

You know, my brother lives out in hicksville U.S.A. now and he got so bored he bought himself a rifle and hunts nutria now. Nutria are these varmints from South America that are destroying the North American ecosystem.

If you're really bored you could probably buy yourself a pellet gun and go hunt some nutria. You don't even need a license, at least in Oregon.

http://www.nutria.com/site.php
http://www.dfw.state.or.us/springfield/Nutria.html

[Scott R. Brown]

Somehow admitting that everyone sucks doesn't seem to help matters any.

LOL!! Nice try Neil. You are the one who implies everyone else sucks. Mostly people here consider you the one that sucks anyway and you know that! You must have nothing else to do tonight huh??

It is knowing that you are unprepared that is the first step in becoming prepared. Use your brain a little bit and stop making inane comments!

[neilhytholt]

LOL!! Nice try Neil. You are the one who implies everyone else sucks. Mostly people here consider you the one that sucks anyway and you know that! You must have nothing else to do tonight huh??

It is knowing that you are unprepared that is the first step in becoming prepared. Use your brain a little bit and stop making inane comments!

LOL. You fell off your pedantic high horse for once.

Admitting that MMA is limited, because it's not fit for the street, and admitting that TMA is limited because it doesn't practice in live situations, would imply that they both suck, wouldn't it?

[SevenStar]

Like Ive been saying, size/strengh and pure agressiveness/how violent you are is what really determines who wins in the fight, its almost all mental, and the rest msotly how you physiclaly look like not what uve been trinaing in the gym tha tmost liekly will go out in the fight anywaya s you try to survive ratehr than win in such an encounter.

wow, you must really suck.

[SevenStar]

well here is the solution even as Bruce Lee put it, get in lots of street fight to gain experience (also growing up in a hood and being hardened helps, and having a killer instinct also helps not backing out, etc.) One solution is do what I dio, try attacking and fighting pedophiles that should be dead anyway.

if that was any more stupid, I would ban you again.

[SevenStar]

This is exactly what I have been talking about on this BB for years. There is a difference between a duel and a REAL fight with REAL bad guys. The bad guys will do whatever it takes to win. They prefer any down and dirty form of attack including sneaking up on you with surprise attacks. The assailant probably would have had his clock cleaned in the ring, but in the real world surprise and tactics are used to ensure victory and bad guys will do whatever it takes to win. The result here is a possibly ended career.

it was two drunks in a bar and one lucky punch. such is life. the same woulda happened to you or any tma. the lesson? don't drink, get obnoxious and start bar fights

[Lama Pai Sifu]

people are ass holes before they use gear. gear just makes them bigger ass holes. and i mean that litterally ... they are simply larger d1ckheads. roid rage is a myth.

= Ignorant Comment.


Been Married? Had a girlfriend? Familiar with the term 'Hormonal?' Do some research before you before you spew out such a silly comment. Steriods affect your HORMONES. They increase test. and can make thier users quite 'edgey'. Look into it.

[Scott R. Brown]

LOL. You fell off your pedantic high horse for once.

Admitting that MMA is limited, because it's not fit for the street, and admitting that TMA is limited because it doesn't practice in live situations, would imply that they both suck, wouldn't it?

Its not the art you dolt, it is the attitude of the fighter that matters! Streetfighters don't commonly practice the MA, they practice how to fight and win using any means necessary! It is primarily strategy and tactics and secondarily skill!

[Scott R. Brown]

it was two drunks in a bar and one lucky punch. such is life. the same woulda happened to you or any tma. the lesson? don't drink, get obnoxious and start bar fights

Hi SevenStar

The point is his training didnt do him any good. The lesson is dont think you are a tough guy just becuz you think you have some training or experience.

It is your impression it was a lucky punch. You are assuming that, you dont actually know! It is a more likely assumption that he was blindsided. That is tactics not luck.

[Black Jack II]

Here is a clip of his Pride fight vrs Butterbean, its only 38 seconds long, but there is a nine minute version of it on youtube but this cuts to the end result as quick as sh!t through a goose.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69przctOkLs&mode=related&search=

As for the object lesson, at least from where I am perched, is that self defense is not just about learning how to make funny sounding squals when spinning or talking about all the ring matches you had, its a module of global thinking.

This guy was a a$$hole making a whole world of assumptions about how dirty harry esque people should treat him, check the bottom of the article for prior reports to the cops about his behaviour, and one day the world didn't like those assumptions and a non-dim mak killing machine bartender said f@ck it, lets crack this guys orbtial bone so he has to have plastic surgery and maybe have vision problems for life.

All because the guy got lost in his own head.

[Leto]

If you don't want to get attacked by drunken criminals, don't put yourself in places and situations where that is going to happen. If you are preparing yourself for brutal violence and paranoid about being the victim of crime, then you have already put yourself in that world. The fight everyone needs to win is the fight with their own ego, and their own fear.

Which way is best for winning on the street? not fighting on the street.

"Because he does not compete, no one can compete with him"
"He who lives by the sword will die by the sword"
-Lao tzu

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

= Ignorant Comment.


Been Married? Had a girlfriend? Familiar with the term 'Hormonal?' Do some research before you before you spew out such a silly comment. Steriods affect your HORMONES. They increase test. and can make thier users quite 'edgey'. Look into it.


first, thanks for your tone i appreciate it. second, i have looked into it. i train everyday with a bunch of powerlifters .... some on gear some not. they are the same guys on or off the gear. i choose not to use it for my own personal reasons, but i dont judge. when i get to a point where it matters, i can say that im all natural, but i wont hold my breath for someone to mail me my gold star. steroid use does increase testosterone levels while you are taking it, but this does not automatically turn someone into a "roid head." while increased test levels may make you a little more aggressive, most people using them have an outlet for this aggression. in general higher test levels usually cause one to be in better moods. sex temporarily increases test levels as well ... do you feel like getting into a fight after getting laid? depression due to decreased test levels (and increased estrogen levels) off the juice and psychological dependence due to difficulty keeping gains off the juice are much more likely and common psychological side effects than "roid rage." used responsibly steroids have very few if any serious side effects. problems arise when people get psychologically addicted to them and never cycle them off, use far more than they should, or both.

i could send you 10 articles supporting this, but you could in turn send me 15 more that support your side. ill go ahead and base my opinion on direct experience.

[Crosshandz]

First of let me start out by saying that its always a shame whenever anyone gets hurt. I wasn't there cannot make judgements on the incident or how it started but O'haire's eye and face sound quite badly damaged and that is a cause to regret.

Somewhere along the line this thread became a MMA vs TMA debate but really what happened to O'haire begs a question of willingness. I'm a south Londoner in my neck of the woods shooting and stabbing people is the norm. Last week a gang stabbed a 15 year old boy with a poker through his chest outside my next door neighbours house.

No form of competition fighting is real. I've been to real fights fought on concrete in the middle of council estates (which American's call projects) and that was real and that has generally convinced me that a lot of guys take themselves too seriously. Whatever you train at the end of the day the only thing that matters is intent and power. Are you training to kill? And do you have the power to kill? Cos as a martial artist thats what you need.

The difference between O'haire and the other guy was not alchohol it was the fact that the dude that messed up his face did not have a second thought about doing it. Street fighters, real street fighters, are brutal. They will push you and while you gain your ground reach into the nearest dustbin rip out a bottle and smash it across your face. You take on one guy you turn your back and bang you're taking on six and if you dont have the power to stop each one with one strike dont be surprised if you find a blunt object crashing against the back of your head or someone's knife slicing across the back of your knee.

To me what this incident shows is that regardless of MMA or TMA a lot of guys train for competition and not for self-defence. A lot of guys live in self-contentment at the level they've achieved because they have the moves to take out a guy in a regulated one on one format. Now dont think I am hating on the achievements of full contact fighters either in MMA or TMA. Cage or Lei Tai its all good. Sakuraba, Su-Dong Chen...no doubt these BMF's could rip it up on the concrete. But are they the norm or the exceptions?

Me personally. I know I'm not an exception right now and I'm training to change that. I am not too proud to say that my skills are not at the level where my first move would not be to get around the nearest guy and run for my life. But make no mistake about it I am not going to allow the situation to go unaddressed. I dont intend to pick fights but I do intend to be in a position where if cornered someday soon I will be able to finish fights.

What happened to O'haire should beg the question to all: am I training for self-defence or for sport? I know where I lay.

[Black Jack II]

If you are preparing yourself for brutal violence and paranoid about being the victim of crime, then you have already put yourself in that world.

That is so not valid. There is a difference between being paranoid and training contextual for a real world altercation. Training for violence does not put you into the world described in that article.

[Chief Fox]

The point is his training didnt do him any good.

How do you know? Where you there? The only information that we have is that he got his eye busted up and that is all. Was he hit with a board or was he hit with a fist? We don't know. Was he suckerpunched like the article says or was it a true fight? We don't know. How much alcohol was in his system? We don't know.

You are basing your conclusion on very little information.

[JetLi'sFearless]

If you don't want to get attacked by drunken criminals, don't put yourself in places and situations where that is going to happen. If you are preparing yourself for brutal violence and paranoid about being the victim of crime, then you have already put yourself in that world. The fight everyone needs to win is the fight with their own ego, and their own fear.

Which way is best for winning on the street? not fighting on the street.

"Because he does not compete, no one can compete with him"
"He who lives by the sword will die by the sword"
-Lao tzu

sometimes u dont have a choice, liek if u live in the hood, visit a hood wher eu get checked, go to a foreign country ran by hoods to visit ur family, etc.

[JetLi'sFearless]

most people freeze when they are close to violence anyway and all that mma or tma stuff goes out the window. For instance I watched man boxing/mma fights live and on tv and never really felt fear, but when I saw those two big guys fight otuside the bar (one ex con who intimidated me by his looks alone), I felt fear and kinda shock cause it looked alot mroe violent than any sport fight and could have turned ugly fast casue they had no holding back.

[SevenStar]

Hi SevenStar

The point is his training didnt do him any good. The lesson is dont think you are a tough guy just becuz you think you have some training or experience.

It is your impression it was a lucky punch. You are assuming that, you dont actually know! It is a more likely assumption that he was blindsided. That is tactics not luck.

there are two accounts of the story:

1. he tried to start a fight and got mollywocked by the guy, who was acting in self defense.

2. he was running to help his friends and got mollywocked.

if the first is true, then he could not have been blindsided. a blindsided punch is not acting in self defense.

if the second is true, then YOU are the one assuming, because both he and his friend are alive. according to that version of the story, three guys were trying to jump his friend.

[SevenStar]

sometimes u dont have a choice, liek if u live in the hood, visit a hood wher eu get checked, go to a foreign country ran by hoods to visit ur family, etc.

this coming from a guy who's only experiences in the hood are lived through his imaginary ex con friend who likes to fight a lot...:rolleyes:

[CaptinPickAxe]

LOL at the need to see MMA fail because of the lack of TMA recognition. Why can't you just enjoy the sport and be happy that martial arts are stepping into the lime light. Oh, wait...probably cause they aren't airing Kata tourneys on PPV and making millions.

It's sad that people are so martially xenophobic that essentially they want MMA (MARTIAL ARTS) to fail because their arts are represented properly. Instead of comiserating in it's failure, why don't you train so you can properly represent your art in THIS VENUE!

[SevenStar]

First of let me start out by saying that its always a shame whenever anyone gets hurt. I wasn't there cannot make judgements on the incident or how it started but O'haire's eye and face sound quite badly damaged and that is a cause to regret.

Somewhere along the line this thread became a MMA vs TMA debate but really what happened to O'haire begs a question of willingness. I'm a south Londoner in my neck of the woods shooting and stabbing people is the norm. Last week a gang stabbed a 15 year old boy with a poker through his chest outside my next door neighbours house.

No form of competition fighting is real. I've been to real fights fought on concrete in the middle of council estates (which American's call projects) and that was real and that has generally convinced me that a lot of guys take themselves too seriously. Whatever you train at the end of the day the only thing that matters is intent and power. Are you training to kill? And do you have the power to kill? Cos as a martial artist thats what you need.

The difference between O'haire and the other guy was not alchohol it was the fact that the dude that messed up his face did not have a second thought about doing it. Street fighters, real street fighters, are brutal. They will push you and while you gain your ground reach into the nearest dustbin rip out a bottle and smash it across your face. You take on one guy you turn your back and bang you're taking on six and if you dont have the power to stop each one with one strike dont be surprised if you find a blunt object crashing against the back of your head or someone's knife slicing across the back of your knee.

To me what this incident shows is that regardless of MMA or TMA a lot of guys train for competition and not for self-defence. A lot of guys live in self-contentment at the level they've achieved because they have the moves to take out a guy in a regulated one on one format. Now dont think I am hating on the achievements of full contact fighters either in MMA or TMA. Cage or Lei Tai its all good. Sakuraba, Su-Dong Chen...no doubt these BMF's could rip it up on the concrete. But are they the norm or the exceptions?

Me personally. I know I'm not an exception right now and I'm training to change that. I am not too proud to say that my skills are not at the level where my first move would not be to get around the nearest guy and run for my life. But make no mistake about it I am not going to allow the situation to go unaddressed. I dont intend to pick fights but I do intend to be in a position where if cornered someday soon I will be able to finish fights.

What happened to O'haire should beg the question to all: am I training for self-defence or for sport? I know where I lay.

that was one of the best posts I've read in a while... other than mine, of course. :D

[neilhytholt]

LOL at the need to see MMA fail because of the lack of TMA recognition. Why can't you just enjoy the sport and be happy that martial arts are stepping into the lime light. Oh, wait...probably cause they aren't airing Kata tourneys on PPV and making millions.

It's sad that people are so martially xenophobic that essentially they want MMA (MARTIAL ARTS) to fail because their arts are represented properly. Instead of comiserating in it's failure, why don't you train so you can properly represent your art in THIS VENUE!

How about wanting MMA to succeed and wipe out all other schools because you are mad at CMA teachers who seem only interested in pocketing $ at the expense of their students?

Is that wrong?

[CaptinPickAxe]

How about wanting MMA to succeed and wipe out all other schools because you are mad at CMA teachers who seem only interested in pocketing $ at the expense of their students?

Is that wrong?

It's called survival of the fittest. Martial Darwinism. If people feel they aren't getting the bang for their buck at the McKwoon and find it at a MMA gym, is it MMA's fault? Or that of an educated consumer? Also, MMA and TMA has it's down sides. Neither are saints, but to sit and wish failure instead of success is just hating.

Are you supporting sifus who dupe their students for cash, Neil?

[neilhytholt]

It's called survival of the fittest. Martial Darwinism. If people feel they aren't getting the bang for their buck at the McKwoon and find it at a MMA gym, is it MMA's fault? Or that of an educated consumer? Also, MMA and TMA has it's down sides. Neither are saints, but to sit and wish failure instead of success is just hating.

Are you supporting sifus who dupe their students for cash, Neil?

Personally, I hope that MMA places wipe all the McDojos and McKwoons off the map, because I'm tired of them bilking unsuspecting students.

Better people take nothing at all than McWhatever, and the people who are serious can do MMA.

And no, I don't go to ANY teachers.

[CaptinPickAxe]

This is blind hate. And stupidity to boot. To think that there is nothing to be learned from CMA is plain retarded. Would I go to a Shaolin school to learn how to grapple? No, but that doesn't mean that they lack interesting theories in striking. What it boils down to, Neil, is that you are trying to find the quick fix. At a glance, yes MMA is a quick fix. However, if you look deeper MMA isn't a martial art but a rule set for matches. I guarentee when you go to a MMA gym, you'll be learning a couple of martial arts. Some of which may be considered "CMA garbage" in your eyes. It's all about application. It just so happens when you train for MMA, it's much more application oriented.

[CaptinPickAxe]

So you don't train, Neil?

[neilhytholt]

This is blind hate. And stupidity to boot. To think that there is nothing to be learned from CMA is plain retarded. Would I go to a Shaolin school to learn how to grapple? No, but that doesn't mean that they lack interesting theories in striking. What it boils down to, Neil, is that you are trying to find the quick fix. At a glance, yes MMA is a quick fix. However, if you look deeper MMA isn't a martial art but a rule set for matches. I guarentee when you go to a MMA gym, you'll be learning a couple of martial arts. Some of which may be considered "CMA garbage" in your eyes. It's all about application. It just so happens when you train for MMA, it's much more application oriented.

No, I'm sorry, it's not blind hate. I've gotten screwed over by too many CMA teachers in my life, and I'm tired of them bilking unsuspecting people.

And I'm not looking for a 'quick fix'. There is no fix. IMHO the system is unfixable.

As for "Much More Application Oriented". Why the hell are you going to martial arts class if you don't want Application Oriented? If you want to work on your character go to Sunday School.

[neilhytholt]

So you don't train, Neil?

I don't go to schools anymore. Not much point -- they all require you to learn their style to get to apps practice.

Which is why MMA seems to be better probably for most people out there because they don't have to do any stupid forms.

Don't get me wrong -- I used to argue against MMA for a long time but after looking at a lot of schools around here they seem to be the only schools doing sufficient apps practice.

There are rumors of other schools, and I need to check out Leong's Hung Gar to see if it really is like Goldenarms says, but the apps oriented places seem to be few and far between now, and everybody else is wasting their money.

And why waste money and think you can defend yourself when you really can't? To study culture? If you want to study culture then don't call it martial arts, call it culture class.

[Scott R. Brown]

How do you know? Where you there? The only information that we have is that he got his eye busted up and that is all. Was he hit with a board or was he hit with a fist? We don't know. Was he suckerpunched like the article says or was it a true fight? We don't know. How much alcohol was in his system? We don't know.

You are basing your conclusion on very little information.

Hi Chief Fox,

I agree we have very little information, but there is reason behind my conclusion. That does not mean it is a correct conclusion. It means it is not an arbitrary conclusion. A reasoned conclusion provides for a greater probability of correctness than a blind guess or assumptions based upon no information at all.

If we presume that training is to keep ourselves from harm, we know from the scant facts he was not protected from harm. A secondary goal of training would be, if injured, minimize the damage received. He in fact received great bodily injury. He was not killed and that is good, but the article did not say anything about him being continually pummeled once he was down. The article implied he was out for the count after the initial strike and was disregarded as a further threat. Therefore his training did not protect him from greater harm than he already had received. We may still presume that his training may have kept him from greater harm, but we don't really know that at this time. Therefore, I think it safe to presume that at best his training did nothing to protect him and at the least it did very little.

[Scott R. Brown]

there are two accounts of the story:

1. he tried to start a fight and got mollywocked by the guy, who was acting in self defense.

2. he was running to help his friends and got mollywocked.

if the first is true, then he could not have been blindsided. a blindsided punch is not acting in self defense.

if the second is true, then YOU are the one assuming, because both he and his friend are alive. according to that version of the story, three guys were trying to jump his friend.

Hi SevenStar,

My statement:


It is a more likely assumption that he was blindsided.

clearly implies I understand I am making assumptions as well. My comment just posted to Chief Fox makes clear the reasoning I used to come to my conclusion. Please note it also implies I understand my conclusion could be wrong.

Neither picking a fight nor responding to a fight requires any actual demonstration of skill.

Blindsided merely means surprised by a strike, that is, being struck without prior knowledge a strike is coming or being struck without “enough” prior knowledge to respond effectively. He did not respond effectively. He was severely injured. It is irrelevant whether he was responding to a fight or picking a fight. Surprised is surprised! Surprise is a tactic and it is effective.

If he was squared off and prepared to be struck then his training is even more inadequate than I have implied in my previous comments! At any rate being struck hard enough to cave in your face is also being struck hard enough to kill you, so he is very lucky. It is just as possible he reacted just enough to keep from being killed.

[JetLi'sFearless]

What you need to do is develope a killer instinct. be abel to attack fast and first and not stop or let him catch their breath, its hard to do this unless you grew up in the hood, everyone has natural inclinations to resist turning something into violence and will infact put themselves in a vulnerable spot to not turn it itno violence, but it needs to be done. Generally the one who is the more violent person wins 90% of the time, not the most skilled person.

[TenTigers]

None of the Above.
What this proves is that anyone, no matter who, what, how you are trained, can get hit. It can be anyone's fight. I could win today, you could win tomorrow. If we fight and my biorhythm,hormone levels, or whatever is off, I have a bad day, you have a good day-I could zig when I should've zagged, your finger could graze my eyeball-it's done. Over.
Have you ever fought someone who was your equal? All it depends on is who gets in the shot. Have you ever fought and beaten someone who was better-because you got in the shot? It happens all the time.
This is why the more you train, the less likely you will start, or get into fights. You begin to realize that anyone and everyone can have their day. We are vulnerable, and fights are serious matters. We train harder to attempt to minimize the occurance, but your body and mind are different from day to day. Style, MMA, TCMA,whathaveyou is not the point.

[Mega-Foot]

Clearly, this article only goes to show that striking arts are superior to ground fighting arts. Wrestling, even at top-tier professional levels, does not train a man to face real-world violence.

I'm willing to bet, 10:1, that the man O'Haire was fighting had some kind of traditional Chinese training.

[golden arhat]

Clearly, this article only goes to show that striking arts are superior to ground fighting arts. Wrestling, even at top-tier professional levels, does not train a man to face real-world violence.

I'm willing to bet, 10:1, that the man O'Haire was fighting had some kind of traditional Chinese training.

i'l take that bet

u now officially owe me money

[bodhitree]

What you need to do is develope a killer instinct. be abel to attack fast and first and not stop or let him catch their breath, its hard to do this unless you grew up in the hood, everyone has natural inclinations to resist turning something into violence and will infact put themselves in a vulnerable spot to not turn it itno violence, but it needs to be done. Generally the one who is the more violent person wins 90% of the time, not the most skilled person.


Only people from the hood have killer instinct:rolleyes:

[Mega-Foot]

That's because they can't afford any of the many newer video game systems that have come out since Killer Instinct hit the market.

They're all still playing NEO GEO.

[Royal Dragon]

if the first is true, then he could not have been blindsided. a blindsided punch is not acting in self defense.

Reply]
Not really, if someone is charging in on you and you blind side them unexpectedly (especially if they are sure they have you), you ARE defending yourself.

we fight and my biorhythm,hormone levels, or whatever is off, I have a bad day, you have a good day-I could zig when I should've zagged, your finger could graze my eyeball-it's done. Over

Reply]
Ummm sorry, but no. MMA/BJJ and the gracies have already proven Eye Gouges don't work, and are not effective techniques. This is especially so when one is a TCMA practitioner, but not as true when they are BJJ practiioners.

Clearly, this article only goes to show that striking arts are superior to ground fighting arts.

Reply]
I could also prove that one guy had really good striking skills, and the other had relly bad striking skills.

Wrestling, even at top-tier professional levels, does not train a man to face real-world violence.

Reply]
No, they don't, HOWEVER competition fighters are better prepared for real violence than those who just train the corner dojo, or do nothing at all.


I'm willing to bet, 10:1, that the man O'Haire was fighting had some kind of traditional Chinese training.

Naww, O'hair is just a crappy striker that met a good striker.

[Dragon Warrior]

Like Ive been saying, size/strengh and pure agressiveness/how violent you are is what really determines who wins in the fight, its almost all mental, and the rest msotly how you physiclaly look like not what uve been trinaing in the gym tha tmost liekly will go out in the fight anywaya s you try to survive ratehr than win in such an encounter.

DUMB


The smartest fighter wins, not the most violent.

You obviously dont train!

Of course violence, aggression, etc., will help you in a fight, but technique, mat time and sparring are more important than anything.

As far at the article goes, it's very pointless in an MMA vs. TMA debat.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

That's because they can't afford any of the many newer video game systems that have come out since Killer Instinct hit the market.

They're all still playing NEO GEO.

that was pretty **** funny.

[unkokusai]

if the first is true, then he could not have been blindsided. a blindsided punch is not acting in self defense.

Reply]
Not really, if someone is charging in on you and you blind side them unexpectedly (especially if they are sure they have you), you ARE defending yourself.

we fight and my biorhythm,hormone levels, or whatever is off, I have a bad day, you have a good day-I could zig when I should've zagged, your finger could graze my eyeball-it's done. Over

Reply]
Ummm sorry, but no. MMA/BJJ and the gracies have already proven Eye Gouges don't work, and are not effective techniques. This is especially so when one is a TCMA practitioner, but not as true when they are BJJ practiioners.

Clearly, this article only goes to show that striking arts are superior to ground fighting arts.

Reply]
I could also prove that one guy had really good striking skills, and the other had relly bad striking skills.

Wrestling, even at top-tier professional levels, does not train a man to face real-world violence.

Reply]
No, they don't, HOWEVER competition fighters are better prepared for real violence than those who just train the corner dojo, or do nothing at all.


I'm willing to bet, 10:1, that the man O'Haire was fighting had some kind of traditional Chinese training.

Naww, O'hair is just a crappy striker that met a good striker.

Are you honestly unable to figure out the quote function?

[Black Jack II]

The smartest fighter wins, not the most violent.

Ah, actually he had some good points.

The will to do violence can be a leading key to winning a fight. Being trained, clever or what you call smart can go out the window with a person who is psychologically at that place and has the experiance.

[Dragon Warrior]

Ah, actually he had some good points.

The will to do violence can be a leading key to winning a fight. Being trained, clever or what you call smart can go out the window with a person who is psychologically at that place and has the experiance.


He is saying that violence,aggression,strength,etc., are more important in a fight than technique.


I agree that a HUGE part of fighting is mental. IMO the most important part of figthing is learning to stay calm in any situation. You dont have to be "violent" as you put it, in order to win fights. You have to have the timing to pull off your technique. This comes with daily experience in training with resisting opponents.

You can't be a technical fighter without experience fighting resisting opponents. So when I wright the word "technique," from now on assume that I include experience in the application against resisting opponents a part of that.

One of my training partners recentely got into a fight at a local bar. Some guy threw two punches at him and missed. My friend then arm dragged him, took his back and put him unconcious with a standing rear naked choke in about 3 seconds.

This is a good example of the importance of "technique."

[unkokusai]

I don't go to schools anymore. Not much point --



I don't think you've ever gone to a school other than the obedience school you flunked out of.