Obscure Kung Fu Animals

[The Xia]

Anyone know any animals that are not so often seen in most Kung Fu styles? I know of some styles that have animals that aren't really seen as much as others. I have also heard brief mention of animals that I have not heard much about anywhere. Like lion kung fu. Anyone know of any obscure animals and how they are played?

[xcakid]

Dog, apparently lots of low attacks and ground fighting.

Elephant, dunno much about it but saw it in a documentary about various martial arts. It was said that this was basically a southern style.

[bodhitree]

I keep hearing stuff about lamas

'symbol crash'

[BruceSteveRoy]

hung fut has 10 animals, snake, crane, dragon, tiger, leopard, eagle (not eagle claw), horse, monkey, elephant, and lion. horse techs do downward blocking, like you are defending your flanks, elephant are strikes that come from the top down in an arcing manner, as for lion i am not actually sure which part of my forms are lions. i asked once and the only one that was pointed out was butterfly palms which are like a lions jaw. these are just some simple examples.

[The Xia]

Dog, apparently lots of low attacks and ground fighting.
Fujianese Dog boxing. Rare style from what I gather

Elephant, dunno much about it but saw it in a documentary about various martial arts. It was said that this was basically a southern style.
I have heard of elephant Kung Fu as well. I have no idea what style it was, but a very long time ago I saw a guy in a magazine or book (don't remember which) showing a hand/arm position that was labeled "elephant trunk".

hung fut has 10 animals, snake, crane, dragon, tiger, leopard, eagle (not eagle claw), horse, monkey, elephant, and lion. horse techs do downward blocking, like you are defending your flanks, elephant are strikes that come from the top down in an arcing manner, as for lion i am not actually sure which part of my forms are lions. i asked once and the only one that was pointed out was butterfly palms which are like a lions jaw. these are just some simple examples.
I've always been fascinated with Hung Fut. Interesting information. What do you know about Hung Fut's eagle and monkey?

I keep hearing stuff about lamas
lol! :D
That conjured up images of some sort of Sim City cheat involving a different kind of Lama Kung Fu (old school PC gamers may know what I'm talking about).

[David Jamieson]

rare: deer, bear, terrapin(turtle) and horse

[GeneChing]

Check out my old articles (a two-parter): The Martial Menagerie: Exotic Animal Styles of Kung Fu - part 1 in 1999 October (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=101); part 2 in 1999 November (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=103).
:cool:

[neilhytholt]

Mongoose. It seems to appear only in an old CMA movie and in Shou Shu.

[FuXnDajenariht]

i've heard of the duck and scorpion. those must look awesome. :D

[Shaolinlueb]

i saw toad kung fu. i was like wtf, kung fu hustle?

[xcakid]

i've heard of the duck



As in AFLLLAAAAACCCC. That makes me hungry. I think I will have some roast duck and yang chow fried rice for dinner.

[neilhytholt]

i saw toad kung fu. i was like wtf, kung fu hustle?

Actually, I came across a video from China of Toad Kung Fu the other day. I think it was posted on here maybe.

[SevenStar]

chicken and sparrowhawk.

[Fu-Pow]

Choy Lay Fut has the 5 shaolin animals forms:

Tiger, Leopard, Snake, Crane and Dragon

And supposedly:

Lion, Horse, Monkey, Deer and Elephant

[MasterKiller]

don't forget Fetus style (it's real).

[The Xia]

chicken and sparrowhawk.
I've heard of chicken. I hear that WFH-Hung Gar has a lot more animals in it then many know about. I once heard that chicken is in it. I heard there is Black Tiger (from Soo Hak Fu's lineage) in it as well. And since there is Lion's Roar influence, I'd guess there is ape in there. I also heard that the crane's beak is from the Lion's Roar crane, and that Fujian White Crane does not have this hand weapon.

[Royal Dragon]

i've heard of the duck

Reply]
You would be refering to the Nine Way Manderian Duck style!!!

I heard it was somehow related to tai tzu, but never found any proof of that.

[Indestructible]

Mongoose. It seems to appear only in an old CMA movie and in Shou Shu.

Funny. Whats the name of the movie?

[PangQuan]

Actually, I came across a video from China of Toad Kung Fu the other day. I think it was posted on here maybe.

lol ya that was shaolinlueb that posted it in that contemporary thread:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkf04dnaLvE

[BruceSteveRoy]

duck style looks ridiculous. there is a video of it on youtube just do a search for yaquan. as for scorpion my old sifu taught techniques from that style its interesting but was never something that really interested me.

as for the eagle in hung fut it focuses on the wing. similar to crane wings. there are a lot of defelcting and slapping techniques. if you were a hung fut pimp i think a large part of keeping your hoes in line would be with eagle techniques. what differentiates is from crane in hung fut is that the beak is the focus of crane techniques and the wings are the focus of eagle. monkey is ... monkey. i havent seen too many monkey styles that are drastically different. but that could be my limited exposure to it.

[SevenStar]

I've heard of chicken. I hear that WFH-Hung Gar has a lot more animals in it then many know about. I once heard that chicken is in it. I heard there is Black Tiger (from Soo Hak Fu's lineage) in it as well. And since there is Lion's Roar influence, I'd guess there is ape in there. I also heard that the crane's beak is from the Lion's Roar crane, and that Fujian White Crane does not have this hand weapon.

okinawan karate has the crane beak. there is also a fist called ox jaw. for some reason chicken is coming to mind also in relation to oma and jma

[Royal Dragon]

Did you mean this one????

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bt-WwrREpI4

[SevenStar]

I read somewhere online that once upon a time, there was a crab style.

[BruceSteveRoy]

yes it was very popular among prostitutes in ancient china to defend against unwanted customers. it is conceptually like pressure point attacks in that the effects aren't felt right away. but the later effects are tremendous and include itching of the crotchal area and disfavor with the spouse and or girlfriend(s).

[BraveMonkey]

That whole Crab Kung Fu + prostitutes post took me a second and then I got a good laugh.

Great for self-defense, but no so much fun to maintain your skills!

[GeneChing]

Duck is actually very traditional. There's been a rebirth of duck at Shaolin Temple, mostly as a sort of cutesy comedy relief form in demonstrations, akin to how monkey is often demonstrated in performances.

Scorpion has also been revitalized by Shaolin performances, but mostly for its spectacular kicks.

Toad, well, I'm not sure. It's another one that's been heavily promoted by Shaolin performance monks in recent years. My inclination is to say that it was created in the movie Shaolin Temple (you all remember the scene, right?) since I've not witnessed a traditional toad form yet. But there's lots that I haven't witnessed. Read on.

Chicken is a common animal in Xingyi.

There's a lot of interest in Dog because it has groundfighting, and we all know how popular that is nowadays.

Crab. Now there's an interesting one. For the longest time, I thought crab was just something out of an old kung fu movie (the title I'm totally blocking on right now, which is a shame because it's a true classic). Anyway, I just came across a traditional demonstration of crab kung fu. It was really odd, not at all showy in a modern wushu way, which made it seem rather genuine. It's made me rethink this one.

I've been told of a Flea style - Mark Saltzman (author of Iron and Silk) told me he witnessed that first hand years ago. Not sure if he was pulling my leg, but we both had a good laugh over it.

[The Xia]

okinawan karate has the crane beak. there is also a fist called ox jaw. for some reason chicken is coming to mind also in relation to oma and jma
Yeah, there are plenty of crane beaks and wings in Okinawan Karate. Okinawan Karate has lots of animals in it. I have not heard of a fist called ox jaw. What's that look like?
I know that mainland Japanese arts have some animal stylings within them as well. I once heard of spider jujitsu. I have no clue who teaches it or what it's like. But I have heard of it.
Another batch of arts that have interesting animal styles are Southeast Asian.

[neilhytholt]

Toad, well, I'm not sure. It's another one that's been heavily promoted by Shaolin performance monks in recent years. My inclination is to say that it was created in the movie Shaolin Temple (you all remember the scene, right?) since I've not witnessed a traditional toad form yet. But there's lots that I haven't witnessed. Read on.


The Toad form didn't seem bad at all. Kindof like a different way to do ground stuff than dog or something.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkf04dnaLvE

[Black Jack II]

I have not heard of a fist called ox jaw.

If its what I remeber its like a y-strike or a modified cradle blow.

btw, I totally dig the Okinawa systems.

[ginosifu]

Here is a link to elephant kung fu:

http://www.taichiherb.com/index.php?fuseaction=martialarts.elephantkungfu

Here is Kwan tak hings 10 animals:

http://www.martialartsmart.net/b45eb16.html

wait a bit and let me think about if I can remember any more... I am right in the middle of teaching class

Sifu Gino

[Shaolin Master]

Here is a link to Dog Boxing

http://www.satirio.com/ma/dishuquan/intro.html

The jifa (Rooster Method) and Shifa (Lion Method) are other styles we practice from Fujian, we will put some info in future.

Regards,
Wu Chanlong

[Fu-Pow]

Did you mean this one????

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bt-WwrREpI4

That doesn't look anything like real duck style.

FP

[xcakid]

wait a bit and let me think about if I can remember any more... I am right in the middle of teaching class

Sifu Gino


Sifu Gino:

"Alright class. 50 push ups, then I want you guys in a Mah Bu stance and do 100 front punches. Then practice your front rolls. I'll be back. Just going to check on a topic and post on the forum right quick."

:D :D

[cjurakpt]

Crab. Now there's an interesting one. For the longest time, I thought crab was just something out of an old kung fu movie (the title I'm totally blocking on right now, which is a shame because it's a true classic). Anyway, I just came across a traditional demonstration of crab kung fu. It was really odd, not at all showy in a modern wushu way, which made it seem rather genuine. It's made me rethink this one.
Shaolin vs. Ninja - Gordon Liu takes a Japanese wife and has to fight a gaggle of Japonese fighters when she goes back home and complains about how he treats her; the last guy he fights is a ninja dude who does crab...


I've been told of a Flea style - Mark Saltzman (author of Iron and Silk) told me he witnessed that first hand years ago. Not sure if he was pulling my leg, but we both had a good laugh over it.
that's cool that you know Mark - he always struck me as someone I'd like to talk to - when we saw Iron & Silk in the late '80's, we laughed copiously at his conversations with Pan - they were eerily reminiscent of a typical conversation with Chan Tai San...

[Leto]

that's the shaw brothers movie with Gordon Liu when he has the Japanese wife, and Yasuaki Kurata is the head ninja who uses crab style. I Love that movie. :)

Shaolin Vs Ninja is a completely different movie, and a pretty terrible one from what I've heard. Don't make the mistake ;) it's Challenges, not Versus

[cjurakpt]

yeah, thanks - I always get those confused - and it is a great flick - the whole matching Chinese weapon for Japanese weapon thing is very cool...

and his wife is a babe - don't get to see enough of her!

[The Xia]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUNg4ZjEW-I

[Kung Pao]

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44023


There you go. On this thread, it says there's a narcoleptic style, spider, dog, flea, and even Shaolin Do has the Golden Roaches.

That's pretty obscure.

[The Xia]

Here is a link to Dog Boxing

http://www.satirio.com/ma/dishuquan/intro.html

The jifa (Rooster Method) and Shifa (Lion Method) are other styles we practice from Fujian, we will put some info in future.

Regards,
Wu Chanlong
Looked at the website. You guys must have a lot of teachers to have all those styles! And that's a heck of a lot of variety. What are the jifa and shifa styles like?

[Royal Dragon]

Don't forget Shaolin Do's "Ten buzzillion Bee's" form....

[Kung Pao]

I've seen dog boxing, it's pretty much the same as anything else wushu. There's some iron brroms, some kicking from the ground (like in monkey), and some rolling around. Nothing to qualify it as groundfighting more than any other kind of kungfu.

In essence, it won't do anything against someone skilled at MMA's version of groundfighting. They'd just beat that dog until PETA stepped in.

[Kung Pao]

Isn't there a "killer bees" form though?

Wu Tang Clan might be half-full-of-crap, but some of their references are bonafide. And they were always talking about the Thousand bees or something like that.

Hell, some of em learn from that Shaolin defector. Yao Ming....or whatever, lol.

[Adventure427]

[QUOTE=BruceSteveRoy;753825] its interesting but was never something that really interested me. [QUOTE]

Lol

[Adventure427]

BruceSteveRoy: " it's interesting but was never something that really interested me."

lol

[BruceSteveRoy]

:o

that is to say as interesting as it is does not seem like something i would want to spend a lot of time learning.

[Royal Dragon]

So ur saying it's more of a passing curiosity?

[Leto]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUNg4ZjEW-I

The crab scuttling footwork is the best!

I've seen another movie called Goose Boxing, or Goose Boxer. A guy in that one displays several "different" animal styles, (all of which he invents to fight the bad guy at the end of the movie)...I think he did goose style, a frog or toad style, maybe a dog style...I don't remember what else. It was a pretty weird movie ;)

Another movie, which i've got, called Raiders of Wu Tang, a guy learns the shaolin horse style from two crippled masters. It was an interesting movie, since they used real crippled guys...one guy with no legs, and the other guy with a stunted arm. wutang hires tibetan lamas to attack shaolin, and they fight with cymbals, making everyone deaf as they attack :) The hero has to go through a secret chamber full of 18 mechanical bronze horses in order to pass the highest test of skill (most people only know about the 18 bronze men, but that's the chamber for chumps ;) )

another movie animal style is Jackie Chan's "cat's paw", where he combines his snake style with imitating his cat. I'm sure everyone has seen that one from Snake in Eagle's Shadow. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14UhTc8jttE

[Blacktiger]

I have read about spider kung fu but have found no info on the style at all

[cjurakpt]

I seem to recall seeing an article about Bat Style recently somewhere;

it was...interesting...

[golden arhat]

it was in inside kung fu a few months back

they used hidden knives and trained reflexes by batting away balls fkying at them

and stuff like tht

[The Xia]

Anyone have any information on it?

[neilhytholt]

Anyone have any information on it?

http://www2.warnerbros.com/batmanbegins/index.html

[Ben Gash]

Choy Lay Fut has the 5 shaolin animals forms:

Tiger, Leopard, Snake, Crane and Dragon

And supposedly:

Lion, Horse, Monkey, Deer and Elephant

Why supposedly?

[BruceSteveRoy]

Anyone have any information on it?

apparently it is supposed to be the precursor to ninjitsu (if i remember the article correctly). they do some pretty painful looking workouts. i think the author also said that all of the students at some point in their study will break their leg kicking a bag of rocks. the theory behind it being that when the bones heal they will heal stronger. one of the other training methods they do is they dig a hole and they jump out of it repeatedly and as this gets easier they dig the hole deeper and eventually they are able to jump very high from a static positiion. so they can leap onto roof tops and tree branches and stuff. it all seems a little suspect to me but if the training yeilds the results that would be pretty cool.

the style is secret. well as secretive as you can be with a 4-5 page article in a martial arts mag can be :rolleyes: but yeah. thats all i remember from the article. if anyone can remember more or make edits to what i said feel free.

just talking about it makes me miss that video game series tenchu. the ninja games. they were awesome.

[MasterKiller]

Another movie, which i've got, called Raiders of Wu Tang, a guy learns the shaolin horse style from two crippled masters.


I saw a guy doing N. Shaolin Horse at a tournament a few years ago. It was a nice style.

[MasterKiller]

it was in inside kung fu a few months back

they used hidden knives and trained reflexes by batting away balls fkying at them

and stuff like tht

That article was absolutely ridiculous.

[Royal Dragon]

All Articles in Inside Kung Fu are rediculous. I allways put it back on the shelf after perusing it in the isles.

[EarthDragon]

I have crossed hands with a iron octopus stylist and it was very effective.












He kept beating me by squirting ink in my eyes though.....

[PangQuan]

All Articles in Inside Kung Fu are rediculous. I allways put it back on the shelf after perusing it in the isles.

wow, your pretty dedicated.

i stopped going so far as to even look at it.

[The Xia]

Is that issue still on shelves?

[BruceSteveRoy]

its from about a year ago

[HungKuenPride]

I keep hearing stuff about lamas
Lama is a style from Tibet, closely related to Hop Gar and Tibetan White Crane. It's said that some branches of Hung Gar are influenced by Lama.


i saw toad kung fu. i was like wtf, kung fu hustle?
The toad style from Kung Fu Hustle is a reference to Jinyong's Return of the Condor Heroes (神鵰俠侶). At the beginning of the book, Ouyang Feng teaches Yang Guo the "Divine Toad Power." The movie references the same Jinyong book with the Landlord and Landlady proclaiming that they're Yang Guo and Xiaolongnu respectively.

[jimmyc]

I seen someone do a N. Shaolin Horse style at a tournament just the other week in upstate New York. It was pretty impressive even though he lost!

[Fu-Pow]

Lama is a style from Tibet, closely related to Hop Gar and Tibetan White Crane. It's said that some branches of Hung Gar are influenced by Lama.

LOL! It's not llama like the animal, its lama as in a "guru" or priest.

[HungKuenPride]

LOL! It's not llama like the animal, its lama as in a "guru" or priest.

I know. I was responding to another post, hence the quoted portion.

[ginosifu]

Alot of kung fu comes thru the art of copying creatures and their survival techniques. There probably have been hundreds if not thousnads of Kung fu animal systems created over the eons. However, some animal techniques can not fit neatly into a system or they can not fully create a proper system, so they just appear as forms or techniques or drills inside another system. In the Wing Lam Ba Gua system you have it's animals:

Lion, Unicorn, Snake, Hawk, Dragon, Bear, Phoenix, and Monkey.

Or the Hsing Yi System:

dragon, tiger, monkey, horse, turtle, rooster, hawk, sparrow, snake, ostrich, eagle, and bear.

Alot of cool stuff is probably going to be hidden in some other Kung Fu system. Alot of times stuff goes thru history being popular during some periods and then they fade into history in other time periods. During these periods the NON popular systems usually get absorbed into more popular systems. Check with your local sifu / sigung and ask about unique animal / insect or reptillian kung fu.

Some 20 years ago I found a VHS tape called " Secrets of the Scorpion" I still have the tape but I do not know how to change VHS to Mpeg or DVD... or I would post some of it, sorry guys . It was a goofy karate guy showing stuff, but none the less .... Scorpion Style.

I am not a good researcher but, I thought Gene had an article once with Wing Lam demonstrating a tortiose / turtle style. Ask Gene...

Here in this book "Kung Fu History / Philosophy and Technique. You will find a lizard or gecko style:

http://store.insidekung-fu.com/product_info.php?products_id=2626

Well back to work...

Sifu Gino :p

[Royal Dragon]

Umm EXCUSE ME Sifu Gino!!!

The CORRECT URL for that book is

http://www.martialartsmart.net/b45-103u.html

We don't buy anything from that other store here!! :mad:

[Black Jack II]

Unicorn

When extactly did the Unicorn become an animal??

[Royal Dragon]

It's allways been an animal...same as the dragon....

[ginosifu]

Sorry wrong store... I looked briefly and did not see it on the site...

Ginosifu :eek:

[GeneChing]

From a Lam Kwoon cousin, no less...:rolleyes:

Shaolin Challenges Ninja. How could I forget that one? Great film - a real classic! Anyway, the crab style footage I saw recently was nothing like the one in that movie. But still, hard to say if it was truly genuine or something that was movie inspired.

cjurakpt: I wouldn't say I know Mark Saltzman. We only met a few times. I used to fence against his wife when we were both kids. I also used to arm his mother-in-law, another fencer.

[The Xia]

I'm still interested in this Bat Kung Fu. :p
Does anyone know any mentions of it outside this IKF article?

[sunfist]

Ive seen versions of the wing chun legend involving a crane and a fox (as opposed to your typical snake).

The different xingyi lineages have different names for the 12 animals. Turtle can be called the crocodile or the water skimmer. Some have Lion, leapord, wild cat, swallow, crane.

Ive heard of a wudang fish style.

Five animal frolicks qigong is tiger, crane, monkey, deer, and bear.

Theres some sort of fairy qigong.

Shaolin earth goblin boxing, which has to be the most awesomely named style ever.

[The Xia]

Ive seen versions of the wing chun legend involving a crane and a fox (as opposed to your typical snake).
Never heard that one.

The different xingyi lineages have different names for the 12 animals. Turtle can be called the crocodile or the water skimmer.
I thought those animals were played differently from each other.

Ive heard of a wudang fish style.
I can't help but get the image of some Daoist monk flopping around on the ground! :D

Theres some sort of fairy qigong.
You sure it's not Immortal? (Daoist Immortals are sometimes likened to fairies, angels, genies, and other beings along those lines)

Shaolin earth goblin boxing, which has to be the most awesomely named style ever.
lol Now that sounds like an interesting style. Anyone have information on it?

[Leto]

Watch the guy who starts at about 8:10 into this. What style is he doing? a monkey form, or some type of crane or duck or goose?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5XMIQrvinM&mode=related&search=

[Mega-Foot]

PM me if you want info on Bat style kung-fu.

It is secretive, but I will be willing to share a few details.

[The Xia]

ttt........

[Fu-Pow]

Why supposedly?

Because I never saw any evidence of them in the 30 Choy Lay Fut forms that I learned....unless you count the Sao Chui as elephant.

[GeneChing]

Well, not really, but check this out (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=602).

[PangQuan]

Well, not really, but check this out (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=602).

looking forward to the next

[Ben Gash]

Because I never saw any evidence of them in the 30 Choy Lay Fut forms that I learned....unless you count the Sao Chui as elephant.

Sow Chui is a Crane technique. I believe Kup Chui and Kwa Chui are elephant techniques.

[CLFNole]

Yes, I think cup choy is considered an elephant technique.

[Fu-Pow]

Sow Chui is a Crane technique. I believe Kup Chui and Kwa Chui are elephant techniques.

So what about the other 4 animals: Lion (Si), Monkey (Hau), Deer (Biu) and Horse (Ma.) I've never seen any of those animals in CLF, at least not the version I learned. Apparently, in the Chen Yong Fa branch they have these as separate forms but I've never seen them.

BTW, for the record I don't practice CLF anymore but did for 10 years.

FP

[MasterKiller]

BTW, for the record I don't practice CLF anymore but did for 10 years.

FP
FP,
No reason to throw the baby out! Keep what you need, and add what you are missing!

[Ben Gash]

I'm not entirely sure, as 5 animal theory is talked about a lot more than 10 animal theory (and to be honest it's not really my thing).The moves where you jump from Lok Quai Ma to Lok Quai Ma are almost certainly a monkey expression.
There are 10 animal forms in the King Mui line from Chan Yiu Chui, and in the Jiangmen line from Wong Gong.
Just because you weren't doing moves called "Golden Horse Runs Up a Hill" or learning lion handshapes doesn't mean that ten animal expressions weren't in the forms you learned (I mean, we've just identified 3 here). In the CLF longarm forms animal expression is a lot more technical and internal than imitative. For example, you wouldn't automatically think of Tsop Chui as being a snake expression.

[CLFNole]

I agree with this completely. Animal forms are not so much about imitating but rather the spirit or intent of an animal.

One thing I always found odd though is horse and deer being part of the CLF animal system. Both move in a similar type fashion and I wasn't aware that China was known to have deer. The horse I could understand but deer seems a bit odd for one of the animals.

Fu-Pow:

Although you no longer train with youe sifu, have you given up CLF entirely? Do you still practice or utilize any of it or are you just going with the Chen tai chi?

[The Xia]

Well, not really, but check this out (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=602).
But where is the bat fu? :p

[Fu-Pow]

CLFNole, I will answer your question in a seperate thread in the Southern forum.

[The Xia]

All training is done in caves. You meditate upside down. You are forced to spar blindfolded in order to use hearing. You learn all kinds of screeching noises. And to build mental toughness, you have to watch that Batman movie starring George Clooney.

[The Xia]

Are goblins a part of Chinese myth? :confused:

[CLFNole]

Yes along with orcs, urukai, dwarfs and elves.

[cjurakpt]

PM me if you want info on Bat style kung-fu.
It is secretive, but I will be willing to share a few details.
why doesn't this surprise me in the least?


cjurakpt: I wouldn't say I know Mark Saltzman. We only met a few times. I used to fence against his wife when we were both kids. I also used to arm his mother-in-law, another fencer.
well, it's a few more times then I've met him :D , so it's still very cool; and what a weird coincidence that you fenced against his wife as kids - was that out in CA? or on the East coast? I used to take lessons, mostly sabre, from some of the old Hungarian guys who hung out at the NYCA who were friends of my dad's growing up in the old country (he fenced as well, but he's into the really crazy stuff: European Team Handball!)

[sunfist]

I thought those animals were played differently from each other.


My understanding is that they are different names for the same animal. Youll get variation, of course, but no more than the variations in the same animal between lineages. Im no expert though.



You sure it's not Immortal? (Daoist Immortals are sometimes likened to fairies, angels, genies, and other beings along those lines)

The movements are named fairy does this and that, however that could just be a dodgy translation.

[xcakid]

Yes along with orcs, urukai, dwarfs and elves.


I have an Elf and Orc sword form. :D

[The Xia]

Seriously, is there such thing as a goblin in Chinese mythology? Sunfist's post isn't the only time I've heard of goblin Kung Fu. I even remember a reference to goblin in Bak Mei.

[The Xia]

My understanding is that they are different names for the same animal. Youll get variation, of course, but no more than the variations in the same animal between lineages. Im no expert though.
I can't believe that a turtle and crocodile would share the same name. They are two very different animals. Then again, this can be a translation error.

The movements are named fairy does this and that, however that could just be a dodgy translation.
I'd guess that it's Immortal.

[The Xia]

I'm wondering if "goblin" could be a funky translation of "yaoguai". Or perhaps "goblin" is a funky translation for a specific kind of yaoguai. Or maybe the "goblin" translation is actually abt for that specific yaoguai. If that's the case, we have Chinese goblins lol. :D

[The Xia]

ttt.......

[The Xia]

Anyone know anything about this topic?

[Ben Gash]

One thing I always found odd though is horse and deer being part of the CLF animal system. Both move in a similar type fashion and I wasn't aware that China was known to have deer. The horse I could understand but deer seems a bit odd for one of the animals.


Dragging this topic back on course. China does have deer, indeed I believe the fallow deer, which we think of as typically English is a Chinese import, and the Muntjack deer most definitely is.
As for why have horse and deer? Well, it's a little tricky, as I understand it Biu doesn't translate directly as deer, but more like "proud stag with the sun's rays streaming through his antlers" or somesuch. We actually don't translate Biu as deer at all, but as tiger cub.

[golden arhat]

apparently it is supposed to be the precursor to ninjitsu (if i remember the article correctly). they do some pretty painful looking workouts. i think the author also said that all of the students at some point in their study will break their leg kicking a bag of rocks. the theory behind it being that when the bones heal they will heal stronger. one of the other training methods they do is they dig a hole and they jump out of it repeatedly and as this gets easier they dig the hole deeper and eventually they are able to jump very high from a static positiion. so they can leap onto roof tops and tree branches and stuff. it all seems a little suspect to me but if the training yeilds the results that would be pretty cool.

the style is secret. well as secretive as you can be with a 4-5 page article in a martial arts mag can be :rolleyes: but yeah. thats all i remember from the article. if anyone can remember more or make edits to what i said feel free.

just talking about it makes me miss that video game series tenchu. the ninja games. they were awesome.

tenchu was awesome they really need to reinvent that

[Fu-Pow]

Dragging this topic back on course. China does have deer, indeed I believe the fallow deer, which we think of as typically English is a Chinese import, and the Muntjack deer most definitely is.
As for why have horse and deer? Well, it's a little tricky, as I understand it Biu doesn't translate directly as deer, but more like "proud stag with the sun's rays streaming through his antlers" or somesuch. We actually don't translate Biu as deer at all, but as tiger cub.

Ben is correct. I researched ad nauseum and had a long a$$ internet conversation with extrajoseph about it.

The CLF character "biu" means something like "golden flaming deer."

I think this is the one (or something close to it):

http://www.chinalanguage.com/cgi-bin/view.php?query=9463&encoding=text

You'll notice on the right side of the character is the radical for deer.

http://www.chinalanguage.com/cgi-bin/view.php?query=9E7F&encoding=text&mode=&lang=en&beijing=pinyin&canton=jyutping&meixian=pinjim&sound=0&fields=cantonese,english

On the left side is metal:

http://www.chinalanguage.com/cgi-bin/view.php?query=91D1&encoding=text&mode=&lang=en&beijing=pinyin&canton=jyutping&meixian=pinjim&sound=0&fields=cantonese,english

Underneath the deer radical is (according to XJ) fire.

Anyways, it is a strange archaic character that isn't commonly used anymore. The other character for Biu, meaning "tiger-cub" isn't the character that is referred to in CLF. That's a different character completely.

http://www.chinalanguage.com/cgi-bin/view.php?query=5F6A&encoding=text&mode=&lang=en&beijing=pinyin&canton=jyutping&meixian=pinjim&sound=0&fields=cantonese,english

They only share a similar sound.

[golden arhat]

Anyone know anything about chinese goblins?

dont feed them after 11 oclock
and dont get them wet

u should be fine

[sunfist]

bah, those are gremlins

KNOW YOU NOTHING OF THE CHINESE MARTIAL ARTS?!

[golden arhat]

gremlins are the ultimate martial artists

they took over a town by themselves

[Ben Gash]

The character for Biu used in Chan Yiu Chi's Kuen Po is tiger cub
http://www.chinalanguage.com/cgi-bin/view.php?query=5F6A&encoding=text&mode=&lang=en&beijing=pinyin&canton=jyutping&meixian=pinjim&sound=0&fields=cantonese,english
http://www.plumblossom.net/PhotoAlbum/KingMuiVillage/Tiger%20Cub%20Form.JPG

[Fu-Pow]

The character for Biu used in Chan Yiu Chi's Kuen Po is tiger cub
http://www.chinalanguage.com/cgi-bin/view.php?query=5F6A&encoding=text&mode=&lang=en&beijing=pinyin&canton=jyutping&meixian=pinjim&sound=0&fields=cantonese,english
http://www.plumblossom.net/PhotoAlbum/KingMuiVillage/Tiger%20Cub%20Form.JPG

Interesting. But you do know about the other character. How did you know about that one?

Also, tiger cub doesn't seem to make much sense. There is already tiger so why would someone include an animal that is just the juvenile version of another animal?

Just doesn't seem to add up.

[Ben Gash]

I searched for Biu, picked the one that translated to tiger cub and compared it to the script. The tiger cub form is supposed to be much quicker and more agile than the tiger form, with less obvious force.

[Fu-Pow]

I searched for Biu, picked the one that translated to tiger cub and compared it to the script. The tiger cub form is supposed to be much quicker and more agile than the tiger form, with less obvious force.

When you say script are you looking at a scan of the original script or a translated version?

[Ben Gash]

Follow the link :rolleyes: Original script in Chan Yiu Chi's handwriting.

[Fu-Pow]

Follow the link :rolleyes: Original script in Chan Yiu Chi's handwriting.

Your link doesn't work:rolleyes:

[Ben Gash]

Hmm, how annoying.
Go to http://www.plumblossom.net/PhotoAlbum/KingMuiVillage/kingmuiscripts.html
and then click on Tiger Cub Form.

[Fu-Pow]

Hmm, how annoying.
Go to http://www.plumblossom.net/PhotoAlbum/KingMuiVillage/kingmuiscripts.html
and then click on Tiger Cub Form.

Well I'll be d@mned. :confused: Not sure then, you might want to bring it up with the Chen Yong Fa crowd or XJ if you feel inclined.

FP

[Ben Gash]

Hey, it's his grandfather's handwriting ;)

[hskwarrior]

isn't it funny how fu pow always comes on as if he knows more than anyone.....then his big arse boat feet get caught between his gums?:D

[CLFNole]

I remember discussing the animals a long time ago with Howard Choy who is a long time student of both Chan Yong Fa and Li Iu Ling. He said that the biu animal was in fact a deer. For what its worth, he gave me a list of the animals and never mentioned anything about a tiger cub.

[Eddie]

I was looking through a list of TSPK forms Sifu Chow Keung showed me, and noticed a form named Cat Fist (not cat claw). He told me its more suited for girls but we got interupted and he never finished the story. Maybe some of the TSPK guys who0uld know more.

[Indestructible]

I was looking through a list of TSPK forms Sifu Chow Keung showed me, and noticed a form named Cat Fist (not cat claw). He told me its more suited for girls but we got interupted and he never finished the story. Maybe some of the TSPK guys who0uld know more.

mao

10chlmt

[Mega-Foot]

I was looking through a list of TSPK forms Sifu Chow Keung showed me, and noticed a form named Cat Fist (not cat claw). He told me its more suited for girls but we got interupted and he never finished the story. Maybe some of the TSPK guys who0uld know more.

You may wish to contact Coach Ross with that one. He was good buddies with Chan Tai San. Grandmaster Sensei didn't teach us Cat Fist--or perhaps I just haven't learned it yet.

[Fu-Pow]

I was looking through a list of TSPK forms Sifu Chow Keung showed me, and noticed a form named Cat Fist (not cat claw). He told me its more suited for girls but we got interupted and he never finished the story. Maybe some of the TSPK guys who0uld know more.

I think that the cat form is a Jeong Hung Sing branch form, not practiced by Chen Yong Fa branch.
That was what I found out when I researched all the forms in CLF from different branches.

[Fu-Pow]

I remember discussing the animals a long time ago with Howard Choy who is a long time student of both Chan Yong Fa and Li Iu Ling. He said that the biu animal was in fact a deer. For what its worth, he gave me a list of the animals and never mentioned anything about a tiger cub.

That's right. It was Howard Choy not XJ that I was discussing it with. That was on the clfma.com forum (R.I.P.) and I was posting under the name Li Loong.

FP

[HOKPAIWES]

My old Sifu back before I found crane knew some pieces of a crocodile system. Lots of breaking applications with the elbows straight, a very "long fist" look to it. He also has a howler monkey set, very low stances combined with long punches and grappling. I also learned some Stag (deer), walking uppercut punches from a Tai Chi guy about 10 years ago. Some real nasty stuff. :D


In town here is a dog fist guy, lots of iron body work and it seemed his main focus was Wing Chun and Jeet Kun Do, but he was more than a handful when he defeated me in sparring.

[Eddie]

Fu pow, it wasnt CLF it was Taisingpekgwar

I ask sifu chow about this last night, and he briefly showed me some of the cat claw and fist techniques. Woulnt have seen it as cat style unless someone told me about it.

I also read about a style called Emu. What exactly did an emu look like? where there Emu's in China?

[Shaolin Wookie]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bando

Check this out.

Kind of reads like an SD history, without any hairy dudes.

[RonH]

I found this brief bit on 'insect style'. I don't know if it's a true style, but I know they do have insects in China.

"Kung Fu-type fighting is common among insects. Like the martial arts, insect battles are fought without weapons. It's legs, mouths and wings in this appendage-to-appendage combat. Take, for instance, crickets. In battles for territory, male crickets kick, bite, bluff and head-butt opponents into submission. "

http://www.entm.purdue.edu/entomology/ext/Outreach/onSixLegs/OSL_files/html/2007/2007-4-12.htm

[Ngfamilymember]

I'm still interested in this Bat Kung Fu. :p
Does anyone know any mentions of it outside this IKF article?

That article was written by my teacher about 2 years back or so. The editior (Dave Cater) didn't print the complete article and didn't show many of the combat pics, mostly just the training pictures that was taken. We have talked about this before on other forum sites...so without going back into some historical rant, here is some of the posted information on Bat style.

It's not an all secretive art but is out there and still taught to this day. There are a few inner door disciples I know of that still train in it. The editor of the magazine had to do some research into it before he would print the article...after talking with an asortment of masters here in the states and in china, he found that the style was legit and printed it.

The style works with the development of an animalist style that is called "Bat style" because of the ppl who used to teach it worked out near cave like area's and it comes from the Mao ppl who lived in China...as far as our lineage can tell. The style works on developing skills and techniques that use elbows, knee's, and quick hand strikes...also, the style incorperats Six Harmonies for internal flair and the bone breaking dislocations needed for throws/takedowns.

You can read the entire uncut article at www.ngfamilystyle.com/articles.

Thanks, take care and train hard.
-Jeff

PS: Whoever stated that it is a secretive style and the only way to get information was by Private messages was clearly mistaken.

[jmd161]

hung fut has 10 animals, snake, crane, dragon, tiger, leopard, eagle (not eagle claw), horse, monkey, elephant, and lion. horse techs do downward blocking, like you are defending your flanks, elephant are strikes that come from the top down in an arcing manner, as for lion i am not actually sure which part of my forms are lions. i asked once and the only one that was pointed out was butterfly palms which are like a lions jaw. these are just some simple examples.


Hak Fu Mun has the same 10 animals, and they're played almost the same within both systems. The Lion is indeed played using the hands as Lion jaws, not like a tiger claw.


jeff:)

[GeneChing]

Crocodile is a common translation for tuo. It has also been translated as water lizard, terrapin, turtle and alligator. Personally, I think water lizard is the most literal, but terrapin is more accurate in a poetic way. Emu is a common translation for tai. It is also been translated as ostrich, rhea and roc. Roc is really the best translation for this, IMO. Both of these animal forms are commonly attributed to xingyi. Now, this is not to say that there isn't a unique croc or emu style outside of xingyi - that's always a possibility too.

[SevenStar]

I thought the roc was a persian creature. Isn't the chinese version called peng or something?

[GeneChing]

I often get the peng and tai confused. I'm probably not the only one. One is a mythical giant bird that can carry off horses (like a roc). The other is a big bird like an emu. Or something like that.
:confused::o

[Fu-Pow]

Fu pow, it wasnt CLF it was Taisingpekgwar

I ask sifu chow about this last night, and he briefly showed me some of the cat claw and fist techniques. Woulnt have seen it as cat style unless someone told me about it.


Actually it came from someone affiliated with Paul Chan in Canada.

[Shaolin Wookie]

I thought the roc was a persian creature. Isn't the chinese version called peng or something?


Shao-lin Do is the only style I know of that still incoporates the tai peng style (although, I think the peng part came from the teacher's name, if I'm not mistaken...but probably am. One of the teachers at the Indonesian school of Chung Yen Northern Shaolin...or something like that.....(who was a friend of Ie Chang Ming)...was a master of this style. IT's one of the first three animal forms you learn in the system. Sin's brother teaches the entire 18 form (they're supposedly very short forms) style at his own school (not related to SD, politically.)

The form I have is called Tai Peng Sin Kune....Great Bird Spreads Its Wings. It plays out pretty much like the name. Very high open stances on one leg, and very low, closed stances. Lots of leaping from (I forget the common name of the stance, but it's something like:) a low scissor step cross-stance, with back leg's knee parallel to the floor. Many low reverse bow stances as well. It takes a lot of balance and leg strength.

[Shaolin Wookie]

I'm still trying to figure out what our 3 shaolin bird styles are based on. It's not the tai peng style. It's not swallow. And one of the forms is translated as : "Performing Dove." I'd heard the "dove" style referred to several times in different sources (one in that KFM condemned, supposedly-spurious Shaolin Grandmaster's Textbook). I've wondered if it is perhaps some kind of dove style. Apparently, doves are actually vicious little creatures when fighting, despite being emblems of peace.

Anyone know what Shaolin Naiao, or Niao (I forget the english spelling) means?

[RonH]

Niao is bird.

[RonH]

I'm still trying to figure out what our 3 shaolin bird styles are based on. It's not the tai peng style. It's not swallow. And one of the forms is translated as : "Performing Dove." I'd heard the "dove" style referred to several times in different sources (one in that KFM condemned, supposedly-spurious Shaolin Grandmaster's Textbook). I've wondered if it is perhaps some kind of dove style. Apparently, doves are actually vicious little creatures when fighting, despite being emblems of peace.

I've heard of both black and white crane, black bird and pea**** styles.

Edit: Oh, dear lord. Fine Peac___ock.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Thanks, Ron.

I was hoping Niao would have been more specific, but I guess I'll have to content myself with its general description.

[RonH]

There isn't any other words before or after niao?

[Shaolin Wookie]

Well, that's the style description.

The three forms are translated as:

Descent from Heaven
Spreading the Feathers
And Performing Dove

They're all grouped as Shaolin Niao. Don't sweat it, though. SD doesn't conform to the CMA mold.

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find info on what kind of bird they're modeled after. We have a Tai Peng system, which is either the Tai, or the peng, or something, but it's not part of that, as far as I know. It seems to me it represents a much smaller kind of bird, compared to the peng and crane systems. It doesn't look like any of the usual "swallow" styles. That's why I figured maybe it was a dove style (which I've heard mentioned only a couple of times, once in that supposedly-spurious book).