Biu Gee/Jee/Tze Emergency Techniques

[r4cy]

Hi: I've read about how the Third form of Wing Chun emphasize on emergency techniques. I've been looking all over the internet for examples of this with no luck. Can anyone explain some of these techniques? If you have links of vids or pics will be greatly apreciated.

[fei_jai]

DJ: Some of the techniques from Biu Jee (Shooting Fingers
form) are considered for emergencies. Can you comment on
this?

CST: It is not actually interpreted as for emergency
case. Because once you use techniques from Siu Nim Tao
and Chum Kiu, and in fact they are full, or you can apply all
you learn in Siu Nim Tao and Chum Kiu fully, there is
obviously no opportunity for your opponent to take you.
Biu Jee is just like a very powerful weapon. It really
depends on if you want to apply it or not. It's like an arrow
on full strength, whether you want to let go of your finger or
not to give that striking force, which might not be necessary.
So it is not really for emergency purpose, it's just on the
likelihood on whether you use or not.

http://www.wingchunmagazine.com/WingChunTeahouse_Summer2006.pdf pg7

[r4cy]

well I get your point, but I'd like to hear from people that DO see this form as the emergency set, and how they would explain these techniques. Thanks

[Tom Kagan]

There are no "techniques" within the form which are not found elsewhere.


The "emergency" is being outside of your references (centerline) and needing to return to it as fast as possible.

[Dave P]

Biu Jee is just like a very powerful weapon. It really
depends on if you want to apply it or not. It's like an arrow on full strength, whether you want to let go of your finger or not to give that striking force, which might not be necessary. So it is not really for emergency purpose, it's just on the
likelihood on whether you use or not.


Well, it Bui Jee is that good, why are we learning Siu Lim Tao an Chum Kiu???
Bui Jee, is not supernatural, it's not containing any secret techniques and most important. It is definately not the most powerful form of Ving Tsun!!!

I was learned Bui Jee in fact gives you an arsenal of techniques/possibilities for emergency purposes. If you have made some mistakes during your fight (which are very human) and you are in a #$%^$%^& situation, you can maybe, use some of the techniques provided by Biu Jee.

For example, you encountered a blast and you fall down to the ground. To recover you should throw in your hands first, instead of your face (man sau section and final closing moves at the end...)

[Lindley]

Dave P,

Siu Nim Tao introduces us to what the center line is and calibrates our understanding of body positioning and structure. The Chum Kiu builds on this idea and moves the center, helping us to maintain balance while in movement and introduces us to the kick. The Bil Je form now says we have been taken off the center, return as quickly as possible. This form is played with intense energy. These three forms seemingly combine to represent three r's found in fighting - Recognition (what is the centerline), Reaction (movement), and Recovery (return).

The Bil Je also comes at a time (in our family) where the student already has a significant knowledge of the system. As my Si-Suk mentioned there are no new techniques in Bil Je. However, the Bil Je is more assuming and opens a door to liberating you and challenging you to take what you've learned (in SNT and CK) to more direct movements. In our family, we are liberated in Bil Je from the pigeon toed stance, chambered punching, and intermediate movements found in the previous two forms.

Thus, in response to your question of why need Chum kiu and SNT if Bil Je is so good? Bil Je does not present itself as being good or bad. It just exists as a component. I believe that there is a story that Yip Man taught some students Bil Je first, to experiment. It should not matter as the ideas of these forms are but part of a whole. Most find it easier and more logical to study SNT, CK, and then BJ in that order.

[Dave P]

The Bil Je form now says we have been taken off the center, return as quickly as possible.

Isn't that about recovery from a less favourable position?



As my Si-Suk mentioned there are no new techniques in Bil Je.

Well, there are different techniques, but the main focus of Bui Jee is to get you back on track.



However, the Bil Je is more assuming and opens a door to liberating you and challenging you to take what you've learned (in SNT and CK) to more direct movements. [quote]

Biu Jee actually teaches you to bee free. It teaches you that other option are allowed and you shouldn't be a slave of your art. I don't believe the Bui Jee movements are more direct. But perhaps your meaning is different on this point and my English doesn't give me that insight.

[quote]Thus, in response to your question of why need Chum kiu and SNT if Bil Je is so good? Bil Je does not present itself as being good or bad. It just exists as a component.

I agree with you, it's just a component of the system. I believe the sequence of SLT, CK, BJ is a sequence of importancy. All together with dummy, pole and knives it's a complete system


I believe that there is a story that Yip Man taught some students Bil Je first, to experiment. It should not matter as the ideas of these forms are but part of a whole.

I don't believe that story. I don't put to much weight in history. If I teach somebody BJ before SLT and CK, how can he understand any of all the concepts of our system... He would just be copying the moves...

[fei_jai]

My own Sifu likens the sequence or structure/purpose of the forms as:

Sil Nim Tao is like the chassis of a car.
Chum Kiu is adding the wheels and motor.
Bil Jee is then bolting on a turbo charger.

What I've been taught, is that Bil Jee is very powerful, but without a strong base in Chum Kiu and Sil Nim Tao, it is nothing but empty movements.

As to the concept of the third form only consists of "emergency" type techniques, well... All I can say is that there are many movements in the first two forms which can be applied to emergency situations.

My own opinion is that Wing Chun is not a technique based art. The 3 empty hand forms teach you how to move more efficiently, coordinated and powerfully, so when faced with an emergency situation, you do whatever you need to do, even if the movment is "unorthodox" as long as it contains the concepts of Sil Nim Tao and/or maybe Chum Kiu, then most likely it will get you out of it.... Use Bil Jee if you want to destroy your opponent at the same time.

[Liddel]

there are no new techniques in Bil Je.

For perspective, in my VT...
- Actions comming from under your bridge, and
- A different half step/pivot
are only introduced in BJ.

I wouldnt say its for emergency situations, but if you call those circumstances that put you in a less favorable position an 'emergency', then i would agree :p

Situations like
- Loosing the center line
- Loosing the Touch
- Arms being trapped
- Interupted actions

For us BJ breaks some rules of VT we forge into the minds of new students, which is why its important you have a good understanding of the other forms. So you can identify the right time to break those rules without it being a detriment to you.

[Dave P]

I wouldnt say its for emergency situations, but if you call those circumstances that put you in a less favorable position an 'emergency', then i would agree :p

Well, let's call it less favourable in that case. Emergency sounds a bit to heavy.


Situations like
- Loosing the center line
- Loosing the Touch
- Arms being trapped
- Interupted actions

I agree on that, especially the first one. Although even SLT and CK teach us that from the beginning as well.


For us BJ breaks some rules of VT we forge into the minds of new students, which is why its important you have a good understanding of the other forms. So you can identify the right time to break those rules without it being a detriment to you.

I also agree on that point.
It teaches you to step out and be free to use as you like. Wong Shun Leung preferred to translate Bui Jee as: 'Moon pointing fingers' as you perhaps have heard the scentence; Look beyond the pointing finger. not limit yourself within boundaries you placed yourself.

But in the first place we are thought Bui Jee is nothing supernatural. We absolutely do not see Bui Jee as a Turbo Charger. But speaking in metafores..Bui Jee is our Airbag, or bumper helping us to get out of trouble and regain a better (dominant) position. Or it might even give us the oppurunity to escape from a fight without taking to much damage...

[Liddel]

I like to think that BJ for a VT practitioner re-enforces the idea that VT is more complete than one might think.

It shows a little foresight that our founders were aware of times when VT can get stuck or into an unfavourable situation, and shows they were capable of applying a formula to circumvent these issues.

I think its a good lesson to think about for all VT training.....
What are your weaknesses and how to balance / nuetralise and/or recover from them. :rolleyes:

[r4cy]

Thanks guys. Someody mentioned that if your hands are trapped BJ teaches hot to get out of that situation.Can you detail this please?

[Todai]

Thanks guys. Someody mentioned that if your hands are trapped BJ teaches hot to get out of that situation.Can you detail this please?

It depends on both your and opponent's relative positions, but the simplest answer to the simplest trap (arms pined to the chest) is the Biu Jee elbow. If your hand is trapped againstyour body bring the elbow up and over.

[r4cy]

Ok, I think I get what you mean with the elbow. Is there any other technique that might be explainable? I ask this because mostly what I see in BJ vids are spear strikes in many directions. Any other "escape" technique interpreted in the form?

[Liddel]

Ok, I think I get what you mean with the elbow. Is there any other technique that might be explainable? I ask this because mostly what I see in BJ vids are spear strikes in many directions. Any other "escape" technique interpreted in the form?

Many people IME focus on the striking in BJ when performing it. But IME you need to recover first before striking so i tend to fucus on recovering actions contained in the form...

If an opponent changes angles on you and/or turns your body from a face to face situation - meaning to loose the center line - thier are many techs that address this depending on the situation....

- Toi/Toy Sao following the Guarn Sao actions in BJ. (if you have them)
- Mun Sao when your opponent changes direction and/or you loose touch.
- Biu Sao when you find your on the outside and need to work an angle back inside.
- The Fook Sao with half turning horse to do the same in a different position.
- Fut Sao at the end of BJ when balance is lost and your opponent has you off line.
- Pi Sao covering/controlling the center when recovering back to face to face.....(some see it as upper Gaurn Sao, for me its a different action - Pi Sao)

Depends on what BJ you have been taught, there are many differences that i have found between my BJ and other schools.

None of this is useful IMO without being shown timing and application...
Ask your Sifu.

[r4cy]

Thanks for the great response.Tyhat kind of answer was what I was looking for. let me see if I can find some clips on applications of the form, if succesfull, I'll try and post them here. If anyone has more answers just let me know, knowledge is power :p

[sihing]

Hi,

Sifu Gary Lam will have his Bui Jee DVD avaliable very soon from Cranes Productions, www.cranesproduction.com . I had the priviledge of previewing this DVD while in LA recently and it can answer allot of questions for those interested in what BJ means and what the applications are. It's a very good DVD with lots of information (as usual) provided.

Also, Sifu David Peterson has a forms review on his website, www.wslwinchun.com , look for the article titled "Bui Ji: Ving Tsun's Misunderstood Form", lots of good info there, so please check that out too.

James