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wushu555
05-02-2001, 01:20 AM
Compare Robert Dreeban's Moy Yat, Ving Tsun's Greatest Export in June Inside Kung-Fu to Benny Meng & Michael Patak's Moy Yat, A Final Farewell in May/June Kungfu Qigong. Dreeban has better pictures and a good timeline. Meng's piece seems very self promotional, but it came out a month earlier. Earlier or better? Tough choice, but I award this one to Inside Kung-Fu.

GeneChing
05-02-2001, 07:16 PM
wushu55,
What's up with always comparing the magazines? Not that I mind really (unless we lose ;) ) but you seem pretty obsessed by it.
BTW, we dedicated our first e-zine to the memory of Moy Yat - that was launched Feb 2nd - so I think we got this one earlier than you thought.

Gene Ching
Asst. Publisher
Kungfu Qigong Magazine & www.KUNGFUmagazine.com (http://www.KUNGFUmagazine.com)

Sai Lo Jai
05-03-2001, 10:11 PM
The "Inside Kung Fu" is a better article because it was written with direct input from Moy Yat's children. However, the editors of the magazine, as they have done in the past with other articles, chose to modify the article and replace a few pictures without consulting the author. Although most of the article was published as originally envisioned, a few persons names were either added and/or removed from the story. Because of religious custom and cultural beliefs, this caused undue grief for the Moy family.

The "Kungfu/Qigong" article was written without any involvement of Moy Yat's surviving family.
This is unfortunate circumstance. However, in my opinion, this magazine does a better job of preserving the story as intended by the author.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Journalism is merely history's first draft.
- Geoffrey C. Ward [/quote]

GeneChing
05-06-2001, 07:00 PM
OK, that's a fair appraisal. I think our editor Martha Burr shares my philosophy about editing - We are both practictioners and wrote freelance, so we sympathaize with the imporatance of preserving the author's intention, especially in regards to the wishes of a greiving family. Most of our editing energy goes to correcting "ching-lish" anyway.

I love that quote - forgive my ignorence but who is Ward?

Gene Ching
Asst. Publisher
Kungfu Qigong Magazine & www.KUNGFUmagazine.com (http://www.KUNGFUmagazine.com)

Sai Lo Jai
05-07-2001, 11:53 PM
Shortly after Moy Yat's passing, the Moy family contacted your magazine to discuss a tribute article. To their surprise, they were informed that your magazine already planned to publish an article from another source and did not require the family's input. Additionally, they were made to wait until the magazine was at the newsstands before they even knew what was contained within its pages.

Even discounting the circumstances of the article's publication, they were disheartened by the contents of the story. Although, I believe, nothing that transpired between the Moy family and your publication was with malice, their grief was unnecessarily and greatly compounded.

Moy Yat had met Martha Burr a few years back and had a generally favorable view of her and your magazine. If he were still alive and did want to publish an article, I am positive he would have presented it to your magazine first, if not exclusively. However, his family did not have any dealings with your magazine before his passing.

Thus far, the Moy family is quite unimpressed.
Unless something changes, I do not think the Moy family would want contribute to your magazine. Going through their father's belongings has uncovered a wealth of writings which, for whatever reason, Moy Yat chose not to publish. It would be a shame if your magazine did not have a chance to determine whether the papers would merit publication. It would be even worse if the reason for this was over something that could, possibly, be corrected.

If you wish to discuss this further, feel free to contact me privately.

GeneChing
05-08-2001, 07:24 PM
Moy Yat passing was right at our presstime deadlines - keep in mind that we are a bimonthly and it takes a month from presstime until stands, so if we missed that deadline, we would not have been able to publish any story until three months after the fact. We felt the Moy Yat passing was significant enough to pull a story at the last moment - stop the presses as they say - and run something on Moy Yat. This is a tremendous hardship on my whole staff becuase the article has to be written, edited, fit into the pagination, layed out and burned to film. We all logged overtime on this one. The only person who could produce an article within a few hours (only the first step in the process) to make deadline was Benny Meng, so we went with him.

As for Moy Yat's family not getting to review the article before it hit the stands, nobody gets previews, ever. This is not out of professional discourtesy, it is because we simply don't have the bandwidth with our tight schedule. We are sorry if that caused any undue duress on anyone but ourselves (we're used to it). Given the circumstances, we had little alternative if we wanted to honor his passing in a timely manner.

Gene Ching
Asst. Publisher
Kungfu Qigong Magazine & www.KUNGFUmagazine.com (http://www.KUNGFUmagazine.com)

GeneChing
05-08-2001, 10:13 PM
I just discussed this topic with my entire staff. The only other person that contacted us about the passing of Moy Yat was Robert Dreeban, and that was only in passing to let Martha know that he was doing something for IKF about it. No one in the Moy family has ever contacted us about this, not then, not since. Please tell me who gave you this information.

If anyone from the Moy family would like to comment, you know how to contact us.

Gene Ching
Asst. Publisher
Kungfu Qigong Magazine & www.KUNGFUmagazine.com (http://www.KUNGFUmagazine.com)

Sai Lo Jai
05-08-2001, 11:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> No one in the Moy family has ever contacted us about this, not then, not since[/quote]

Robert Dreeban was writing at the direct request of the Moy Family. I suppose it is possible, however odd, that he failed to mention this.

Since no one with whom you spoke can recall anything further, I'll do my best to sort out more details of the conversation(s) from this end.

[This message was edited by Tom Kagan on 05-09-01 at 03:11 PM.]

GeneChing
05-09-2001, 07:50 PM
Robert Dreeban had already sold his article to IKF when he contacted Martha. He's a veteran freelancer writer who understands the rules - sell to IKF OR us, but not both. Even if he was an offical spokesperson for the Moy family, he could not sell his work to both of us. He let Martha know he was selling to IKF out of professional courtesy. It was an offhand mention, since Martha and Robert are friends. Actually the conversation was primarily about other work he is doing for us. So I really feel your comment about our relationship to the Moy family is misleading. We worked really hard to honor Moy Yat as best we could given the circumstances of his passing. To receive your criticism on this in this manner is a real slap in the face, especially since it was only us a IKF that gave this event so much attention.

Again, if anyone wants to contact us, we are always at their disposal, but it's quite "after the fact" now.

Gene Ching
Asst. Publisher
Kungfu Qigong Magazine & www.KUNGFUmagazine.com (http://www.KUNGFUmagazine.com)

Sai Lo Jai
05-10-2001, 02:08 AM
As promised, I spoke to Bob Dreeben directly. I had not done this before and should have from the get-go. It is sometimes strange how conversations can skew when there are so many people involved.

In my second post in this thread I was trying to relay to you the feelings of a grieving family. But, after re-reading it, it is now obvious to me that I came across as brusque. I admit I was rankled by your comment about the regards to the wishes of a greiving family because I knew firsthand the article published had no input from them. For my attitude, Please accept my sincere apology. However, my reason for taking that opportunity to discuss this with you is very much current.

While, clearly, everything that is in print is "after the fact" as you said, I still have a grieving widow - my simo - that I very much care about. Anything I can do to help her and her family make further sense as to what is going on, I will try to do. Your explanation to the circumstances surrounding the deadlines and methods under which your publication was operating will go quite a ways towards soothing her perspective of that article. She can strongly identify with the need to finish something sooner rather than later. She is very much like her husband in this respect.

As I wrote before, Moy Yat had a more favorable opinion of your magazine over the competition. But, since his legacy is now partially in the hands of his students and the media, it is they who will, ultimately, be the last word in what voice he will have in the future. If I am able, I want his family to see that the "last word" should be contained within your pages.

If you could email me with the best way to reach you and the best times to call, I would like to discuss this more. Since, from another thread, you said there may be another "Wing Chun" special issue, perhaps there might be another way Moy Yat could serve in that effort.

GeneChing
05-10-2001, 07:24 PM
Yes, telephone, it's one of my favorite games. We used to call it Chinese Whispers - I don't know why but it seems a more fitting title given this forum. Forums can be just like a big game of Chinese whispers, only it all stays in posted so we can see where things are misheard. Your apology is accepted unconditionally, although I don't think an apology was really necessary, but I do respect very much that you choose to offer one.

Please express our most sincere consulations with your family. We are all hurt by such a great loss.

And thank you for your kind support of our magazine. We are always interested in more Wing Chun material, especially from Moy Yat. you can find our guidelines for submission posted at the bottom of our website - click "write for kfm". You can contact me personally at 510-656-5100 ext. 137 or at Gene@KungfuMagazine.com

Gene Ching
Asst. Publisher
Kungfu Qigong Magazine & www.KUNGFUmagazine.com (http://www.KUNGFUmagazine.com)

passing_through
05-23-2001, 06:00 PM
> Dreeban has better pictures and a good timeline. Meng's piece seems very self promotional

Who's the troll?

Sifu Meng provided information to both magazines: an article and photos to Wushu-Kungfu and the timeline and photos to IKF.

The timeline (http://home.vtmuseum.org/sifu/moy_yat/timeline.php) is up on the VTM site, too.

Jeremy R.

... opportunityisnowhere...
... was that no where...
...............or now here...

Sai Lo Jai
05-23-2001, 06:57 PM
After the funeral, I discussed directly on the phone with your sifu certain pictures which would be most offensive to your si tai. I even told you and two of your sihings (Dan & Mike) at the gravesite that the pictures/video your group were taking should be cropped/reshot from a different angle.

Yet, there they were - in both magazines. Perhaps now you can understand my first post in this thread.

If you need to discuss this further, it is better to continue this privately.