Eric -Ling-makiwara????

[TenTigers]

Hey Eric,
I figured you're the "go to" man for all things Fukien Bak Hok,etc. So here's my query: The makiwara is the mainstay in Okinawan (which is basically Fukien-influenced) Martal Art. Just as Sanchin Kata,the makiwara is more than what it seems. Besides being the tool for strengthening the structures of the fist,strike,body, it is a tool for developing perfection. Perfection of mind-concentration,focus, Pefection of body-structure,alignment,Perfection of spirit.
When I use the makiwara,I don't simply perform 100 punches. My goal is to perform ONE perfect punch, One hundred times. The value of this simple tool, in my book, cannot be emphasized enough.
That being said, I am curious why one never sees the makiwara in TCMA. Sure you see dummies,sandbags,etc. But you never see this specific item. I would assume that in your travels, you would have seen it quite often,specifically in Fukien Bak Hok training halls. What has been your experience? Also, what is it called in Guongdong-wah? Also, any pics?

[Firehawk4]

In the second book on Chuka Shaolin Phoenix Eye Fist there is a makiwara looking device that they use .

[Eric Ling]

Oh nooo, another thread with my name ....

Rik, I don't think I have seen the makiwara used in CKF.

But then I might be totally wrong ...

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Delicate Flower]

One of the tools we use in SPM--and I've seen a version of it in the Phoenix Eye Books as well--is the fu nan dummy. It's a board set up with drawn or applied circles on it to represent the points: 3rd eye, chin, throat, nerps, sternum, tan tien, groin. The idea is to drill it in a variety of sequences with the phoenix-eye fist to develop reflexes and muscle memory and conditioning on the knuckle.

The makiwara is for knuckle conditioning too, but the karatekas like to build up the calouses, while the kung fu cats like to put on the dit da jow to maintain our soft, delicate hands. I've also wrapped spring dummies in jute (like the makiwara) to condition the skin for grinding and hooking, but, again, I'm all about the dit da jow.

[TenTigers]

"The makiwara is for knuckle conditioning too, but the karatekas like to build up the calouses, "
actually, the makiwara was NOT originally designed for knuckle conditioning and callouses, but to strengthen the structure of the hand and wrist, as well as developing whole body power,focus, and concentration.-proper execution of a well-focused punch. The callouses are developed simply due to long term use, but it is not the goal. What good are callouses when you are striking to soft tissue?
That being said, there are of course a gazillion karateka with golfball sized knuckles and hands that look like feet. Something must have gotten lost in translation. Go figure.

[Delicate Flower]

Roger that. I usually see them (makiwaras) on bases that move a bit, but I know what you're saying about developing the wrists. I suppose that, when truly substantial (like fixed into solid earth) they're pretty handy for developing core strength too, and a solid root. But, again, I suppose that's like any of those traditional training tools--simple works good.

[The Xia]

Roger that. I usually see them (makiwaras) on bases that move a bit, but I know what you're saying about developing the wrists. I suppose that, when truly substantial (like fixed into solid earth) they're pretty handy for developing core strength too, and a solid root. But, again, I suppose that's like any of those traditional training tools--simple works good.
I think that striking surfaces should generally have some give.

What good are callouses when you are striking to soft tissue?
I can't say if it's true, but one explanation I heard was that the goal was to be able to break armor. But I don't think calluses would be what do that. It seems to me that the hardness of the knuckle bones (and the person knowing how to use them) would be most important. I've also heard that calluses are a result of training the makiwara improperly.

[TenTigers]

-or..that the callouses protect you from the makiwara itself, thus enabeling you to strike it more. The more you hit it, the more callous you develop, so you can hit it more...
it's a viscious circle;)
You don't hit the makiwara to develop callouses,
you develop callouses so you can hit the makiwara.

[The Xia]

I see what you mean by "viscious circle". :D
But what to do about those calluses!
I wonder what would happen if post-makiwara training, Karateka rubbed jow on their knuckles.

[Samurai Jack]

Many do rub in the jow. I've never really understood the aversion to conditioned knuckles some people have. I've never heard of anyone looking at a gymnast's body and going, "Eeeewwww gross! He must be into that awful sport." Why would anyone look at a person who is obviously dedicated to thier training in the extreme, and think the results were undesirable?

Do you want to be ninety with pretty lotioned up hands? Worried about arthritis? What if the price is a lifetime of mediocrity?

[The Xia]

It's not the looks (for me anyway), but I've heard of elderly Karateka with lots of callusing on their knuckles getting arthritis. It's good to hear that some Karateka are using jow. Maybe it will prevent health problems later in life. :)

[Beginner]

Oh nooo, another thread with my name ....

Rik, I don't think I have seen the makiwara used in CKF.

But then I might be totally wrong ...

Warmest Regards.

Eric


Hi Eric

Our shaolin school actually does uses the makiwari alot. Sifu used to make the dummy & all the members have to help erect the makiwaris with cement & concrete donated. ALot of ppl I observed even using the Jow still have bones problem due to incorrect use. These were taken down when the govt took over Shuanglim. The only favourable memory I have of these makiwaris is the pain.:D

[Beginner]

I see what you mean by "viscious circle". :D
But what to do about those calluses!
I wonder what would happen if post-makiwara training, Karateka rubbed jow on their knuckles.

I was advised that sandpaper is the best cure...:p

[The Xia]

Is the makiwara training that your school does taken from Karate?

[Ozzy Dave]

Beginner, very interesting what you said about Shuang Lim

I sent you a PM

Dave

[Beginner]

Is the makiwara training that your school does taken from Karate?

Sorry for delay replying, I just saw this msg today.

I don't think so. our makiwari was taught to him by my sigung. He just did the same to us. The one we use has a springboard behind & another kind was the dummy one. The latter one hurts more than anything else...:mad:

[Beginner]

Beginner, very interesting what you said about Shuang Lim

I sent you a PM

Dave


sorry can u send again? thks