jack/john springer and hung gar?

[Terrygrey]

Hi everyone,
I was reading a thread on a forum and someone put up a link to a thread by a certain john/jack springer. This is the link:
http://z15.invisionfree.com/TruthMartialArts/index.php?showtopic=158

I hadn't known or heard much about the Mr springer individual so I asked on the forum EF about who his teacher was and what lineage.

Link :http://www.emptyflower.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi/YaBB.cgi?board=done;action=display;num=1177966834; start=0

http://www.emptyflower.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi/YaBB.cgi?board=done;action=display;num=1177966834; start=15

Got told to go ask the man so I did here.
http://z15.invisionfree.com/TruthMartialArts/index.php?showtopic=158&st=140

It seems that springer is very touchy about the question and he's got a lot of supporters on EF yet he and his supporters is unable to simply answer the question of who is his hung gar teacher and what lineage.

Based on his behaviour and that of his supporters :
What this tells me is that:
* There is something to hide. (Avoiding the questions and then change the subject by shooting insults and accusing troll and not following 'forum rules' which were NOT set out in the register page.)

* Mr. Springer and supporters are insecure. (Why else feel so threatened by a simple question/s and the need to shoot the insults and find excuses for not anwering a straight question. Instead, you have excuses.

*Mr Springer's comments are to be taken with a grain of salt, if any attention is to be given at all. I'm very suspicious he is a fraud with no legitimate lineage.

Google shows these links
http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/printthread.php?t=36075

http://lionsroar.name/master_john_f_springer.htm

Note in the lionsroar website nowhere does he mention who is Hung Gar teacher was. It also doesn't explain what lineage although it mentions the name wong fei hung. Makes me very suspicious.

Does anyone have any comments to confirm or defend ?


that is not just blind support (in my opinion for a fraud) with nothing to back it up, like the people at EF who just call troll but have nothing of any substance to support springer is not a fraud in Hung gar.
(EF people don't bother responding as I like to call BS what it is : BS, and you BS supporters opinions are not worth very much).

For other folks here, sorry for the bit of 'heat', but I'm just not impressed with the outright insults they gave me for asking a simple question initially which wasn't impolite or rude. You can check the threads in the links for yourself.

Thanks people.

[SifuAbel]

His teachers and lineage are well known, trolling idiot. :rolleyes:

[SevenStar]

yeah, many don't like him, but his lineage is no secret

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

I thought he was a Southern Mantis guy?

[Terrygrey]

His teachers and lineage are well known, trolling idiot. :rolleyes:

Well if it was already well known, then you could have just simply stated the answer to a simple question: Who is springer's hung gar teacher and what is his lineage?
Or if its already all over the net then just point to the link. Why the need to insult?

You could have simply answered the question and it would just settle the issue immediately. But you instead of doing that, you chose to just avoid or just deter from the question and then INSULT ME. But its not surprising since you come from THE SAME FORUM where springer and some friends just simply shot insults without addressing the question. Yes I mean your truthmartialarts.org.

Funny you should use the word 'truth' since you simply can't tell the truth to a simple questions. If the guy is a BS artist and you are a BS supporter like the other EF BS supporters, then don't you think you will start to radiate the smell of BS? I think it tells people a lot if you are a blind and strong BS supporter!

Yeah well, I've already searched the internet.
Here is another link courtesy of a search engine
http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15491

The more you people insult me and the more I search, it seems its getting quite obvious. Looks like Mr Springer got involved with southern mantis as well.
Interesting post from a springerfist:

08-22-2002, 10:59 PM
springerfist
Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 6

You need to stop making fun of Jack. He learned under William Chung, not Bill Chan. After 30 years of hardcore training, Jack mastered Toison fu hok tong long. Yes, he mastered both hung gar and jook lum simultaneously. He can't give all the credit to Chung sifu though, or his sigung Mark. Chung sifu only taught him a few basic san saos and a 3 step form maybe. Due to his great genius, Jack figured out the rest of JL himself. Even though his sifu stopped teaching him, he showed his sifu that hands-on training is a Chinese fairytale requirement. He got everything he needed from Mark's videos and extensive internet research. Based on those videos and meeting Mark over 20 years ago, he clearly sees that Mark is no match for him.
Jack has extensive chow gar training as well, he has every one of Whitrod's tapes. Now he knows that Whitrod's "wooden arms" are no match for his springer fist. And he knows that Yip Sui polluted the system with forms because he was there when Yip Sui was learning from Lao Sui. He knows what Lao Sui taught and didn't teach. Facts, baby. What a hoot
He even picked up 13 roads through video training- no easy task. He earned his sifu status! And 13 + 3 = 18, right? What a hoot.

Unlike Lam Sang, he has quite a fighting resume as well. If he had showed up to fight Ralek, he certainly would have won. Lucky for Ralek, he didn't.
He knows Lam is lying because he was there when Lam entered the temple and when he left. Had to help Lam up after he lost those fights. Facts, baby, not hearsay. Jack knows these things firsthand.
And he ain't no hyppocrite either. He may show up to Minn or Houston to shut down a few schools, without warning. You can bet he will be at Poo Yee's seminar and any demo Mark does in baltimore. He ain't no hyppocrite.
So don't mess with him, or else you'll have to face gingerfist, hideous, hakkaeye, ML all at once.

[SifuAbel]

Is masturbation one of your "gung's"? :rolleyes:

[SifuAbel]

yeah, many don't like him, but his lineage is no secret

Just what is that crap in your sig from?

[Terrygrey]

Looks like this is NOT THE FIRST TIME jack or john springer has been asked his lineage
http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14955&page=3

And an interesting post. Nothing to hide by jack eh? (BS supporters!)

#38 08-18-2002, 03:14 AM
redfist
Member Join Date: Jan 1970
Posts: 92

gou z idiot

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

hey jack,
who certfied you to teach?

why do you put down gin foon mark?you used to kiss his ass,for
any bit of information you could get,but you didn`t get anything,
i guess thats why you are so ****ed off,

thats where you got your jook lum from,remember hanging
around nyc chinatown with ho dun and norman chin?

you say you despise lum sang but thats where your
"deadly" hakka hand came from,

now seriously jack,post your lineage for all to see,
i will look it over let and you know how legitament it is.

while i`m at it,i noticed your disdain for the chow gar of ip sui,
is he not the oldest living practioner of nan tong long today?
maybe 70+ years of experiance.
you expect us to think you know more then he does?
you have no respect for your elders,nor for yourself.

hear that jack?

the walls are closing in,the truth is out there jack,
unfortunately so are you.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by redfist : 08-18-2002 at 03:28 AM.

[yenhoi]

Why would you care. Its not like you are going to go learn from him etc.

ttt for JFSpringer!


:eek:

[SevenStar]

Just what is that crap in your sig from?

some thread that I locked in the southern forum. There was actually much more than this, but I had to edit it all, as there is a character limit for sig length.

[Black Cloud]

Now THAT is funny!




08-22-2002, 10:59 PM
springerfist
Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 6

"Due to his great genius, Jack figured out the rest of JL himself." :eek:

"He got everything he needed from Mark's videos and extensive internet research. Based on those videos and meeting Mark over 20 years ago, he clearly sees that Mark is no match for him." :eek:

"Jack has extensive chow gar training as well, he has every one of Whitrod's tapes. Now he knows that Whitrod's "wooden arms" are no match for his springer fist. "

"He knows Lam is lying because he was there when Lam entered the temple and when he left. Had to help Lam up after he lost those fights." :eek: :eek: :eek:


Oh yea, beacuase EVERYONE puts there REAL secrets on tape for public consumtion. LOL!!!

[Terrygrey]

Funny how you snipe at John from the net but have not the gonads to step up and actually met him and see how his "lack of lineage" affects his skills.



Well now you are one of his BS supporters, right? You attack me like the rest of springer's BS supporters, yet you cannot answer the simple question: Who is springer's hung gar teacher and what is his lineage? I'm not even asking about his 'skill'. You get that? And that quote "see how his "lack of lineage" affects his skills" are YOU ADMITTING JACK SPRINGER LACKS A LEGITIMATE LINEAGE?

Banning someone from a forum for asking a simple questions, together with the large number of BS supporters who can (or will) only shoot personal insults and yet not address a simple questions TELLS PEOPLE JACK SPRINGER AND SUPPORTERS DO HAVE SOMETHING TO HIDE, RIGHT?

Yeah claim you have a PH.D. and when someone simply asks "from which University ?" , simply get together with bunch of BS supporters and attack him for asking, call him a troll, ban him but yet NOT SIMPLY ANSWER THE SIMPLE QUESTION! (Sarcastic analogy in case you didn't get that).
Not hard to smell BS, eh?

People can check the threads themselves, how a simple questions was asked, and all the stupid attempts by the BS supporters to find excuses and to defend the BS artist (?) yet where did the man himself or the supporters try to answer the question? Isn't that a stronger "defense"? ( thats if he has a legitimate lineage to begin with, right?)

The more stupid attempts you BS supporters use to defend a suspect fraud, and the more personal insults you throw out yet have no substance to defend the suspect, the more it is becoming obvious.

Not everyone is so blind!

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

You know, it does seem to be a simple thing to just answer who your lineage is from...unless you are like me and learned bits and scraps of a style from all over. In which case just say that...

That doesn't show skill though, and someone like me can be very skilled even without a lineage. Someone with a lineage can totally suck.

Dodging the question, and attacking the questioneer though, opens one up to criticizem.

[omarthefish]

I thought he was a Southern Mantis guy?

He was put in charge of a particular SPM line but he was already a recognized Hung Gar master at the time. The styles have a lot of overlap being southern and all. He says that SPM folks often lack the kind of, for lack of a better metaphore, "engine" inside that Hung Gar presents. Great tactical set but kind of limited and Hung Gar, especiall the Iron Wire set, provides incredible power generation that can drive the SPM frame for incredible effect.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Hi everyone,
I was reading a thread on a forum and someone put up a link to a thread by a certain john/jack springer. This is the link:
http://z15.invisionfree.com/TruthMartialArts/index.php?showtopic=158

I hadn't known or heard much about the Mr springer individual so I asked on the forum EF about who his teacher was and what lineage.

Link :http://www.emptyflower.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi/YaBB.cgi?board=done;action=display;num=1177966834; start=0

http://www.emptyflower.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi/YaBB.cgi?board=done;action=display;num=1177966834; start=15

Got told to go ask the man so I did here.
http://z15.invisionfree.com/TruthMartialArts/index.php?showtopic=158&st=140

It seems that springer is very touchy about the question and he's got a lot of supporters on EF yet he and his supporters is unable to simply answer the question of who is his hung gar teacher and what lineage.

Based on his behaviour and that of his supporters :
What this tells me is that:
* There is something to hide. (Avoiding the questions and then change the subject by shooting insults and accusing troll and not following 'forum rules' which were NOT set out in the register page.)

* Mr. Springer and supporters are insecure. (Why else feel so threatened by a simple question/s and the need to shoot the insults and find excuses for not anwering a straight question. Instead, you have excuses.

*Mr Springer's comments are to be taken with a grain of salt, if any attention is to be given at all. I'm very suspicious he is a fraud with no legitimate lineage.

Google shows these links
http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/printthread.php?t=36075

http://lionsroar.name/master_john_f_springer.htm

Note in the lionsroar website nowhere does he mention who is Hung Gar teacher was. It also doesn't explain what lineage although it mentions the name wong fei hung. Makes me very suspicious.

Does anyone have any comments to confirm or defend ?


that is not just blind support (in my opinion for a fraud) with nothing to back it up, like the people at EF who just call troll but have nothing of any substance to support springer is not a fraud in Hung gar.
(EF people don't bother responding as I like to call BS what it is : BS, and you BS supporters opinions are not worth very much).

For other folks here, sorry for the bit of 'heat', but I'm just not impressed with the outright insults they gave me for asking a simple question initially which wasn't impolite or rude. You can check the threads in the links for yourself.

Thanks people.



I am a little confused here Terry.
The lionsroar website you mention actually shows John and some people that, if you knew what you were talking about, would answer all your questions.
So, what is your confusion?
I take it you know nothing of Hung Ga or SPM ?
You certainly don't seem to know or recognise anyone in those pictures with John.

What is your agenda?

[jo]

Jack got a few Hung Gar forms from Bill Chung who got them from Gin Foon Mark.

Thats it. A few forms, thats all. No complete curriculim, no real linage. Just a mish-mosh of forms.

Chung was allowed to hang with the Masons because he was born in America and was useful for answering mail and running errands for the old men who spoke no English.

Chung opened a school in New Jersey where he beat and abused poor lofans like Jack and called it "training". Chung also told tall tales of streetfighting and triads to the suckers who lapped it up like Gospel.

Jack is a common barroom brawler with some size and speed, but he has NOTHING when it comes to SPM. He claims he had an "unamed" Chu Gar teacher is the 1980's and then he was a video correspondence student of Steve Richards when Steve was calling Roger Hagood "Sifu" LOL! Then Jack went over to England to see Lee Lien and got the ENTIRE LYS system "transmitted" to him a few hours! LOL!!!

That Jack, he's always good for a chuckle as his story as changed so many times over the years, that he tripping over his lies left and right these days. He plays the lame card that he set "traps" over the years to confuse people with his lies. Hilarious.

-jo

[sanjuro_ronin]

Jack got a few Hung Gar forms from Bill Chung who got them from Gin Foon Mark.

Thats it. A few forms, thats all. No complete curriculim, no real linage. Just a mish-mosh of forms.

Chung was allowed to hang with the Masons because he was born in America and was useful for answering mail and running errands for the old men who spoke no English.

Chung opened a school in New Jersey where he beat and abused poor lofans like Jack and called it "training". Chung also told tall tales of streetfighting and triads to the suckers who lapped it up like Gospel.

Jack is a common barroom brawler with some size and speed, but he has NOTHING when it comes to SPM. He claims he had an "unamed" Chu Gar teacher is the 1980's and then he was a video correspondence student of Steve Richards when Steve was calling Roger Hagood "Sifu" LOL! Then Jack went over to England to see Lee Lien and got the ENTIRE LYS system "transmitted" to him a few hours! LOL!!!

That Jack, he's always good for a chuckle as his story as changed so many times over the years, that he tripping over his lies left and right these days. He plays the lame card that he set "traps" over the years to confuse people with his lies. Hilarious.

-jo

And you know all this how?

[jo]

...I was there. :D

-jo

[Terrygrey]

Jack got a few Hung Gar forms from Bill Chung who got them from Gin Foon Mark.

Thats it. A few forms, thats all. No complete curriculim, no real linage. Just a mish-mosh of forms.

Jack is a common barroom brawler with some size and speed, but he has NOTHING when it comes to SPM. He claims he had an "unamed" Chu Gar teacher is the 1980's and then he was a video correspondence student of Steve Richards when Steve was calling Roger Hagood "Sifu" LOL! Then Jack went over to England to see Lee Lien and got the ENTIRE LYS system "transmitted" to him a few hours! LOL!!!

That Jack, he's always good for a chuckle as his story as changed so many times over the years, that he tripping over his lies left and right these days. He plays the lame card that he set "traps" over the years to confuse people with his lies. Hilarious.

-jo

Hi Jo,
Thanks for the info. If that is the case then it explains why such a simple questions can be so 'threatening' to springer and his BS supporters at EF and 'truthmartialarts.org' LOL

The BS supporters go so far as to dodge the question/change the subject, make personal insults and even ban someone for asking a simple question, yet NONE of these jokers will (or can?) answer the simple questions. And then they come here (the BS supporters) trying to deter attention from the simple question, make yet more personal attacks and stupid comments to 'derail' this thread. And they accuse someone being a troll for asking a simple question! Talk about hypocrites? Do they realise they are 'trolling' this thread? The thieves calling 'thief'? LOL

Note the funny thing. In Springer's own website at Lionsroar he doesn't mention his hung gar lineage , yet he dares claim to be a master/expert of hung gar including tiet sin kuen? If springer has got no direct lineage to wong fei hung, then why mention wong fei hung? ( mislead the public? ride on a famous lineage/masters coat tail?)

Note the stupid BS supporter post asking do we see the pictures in the lionsroar webpage. Yeah if you take a few pictures of the President and put it on the same webpage, or take some photos with the President and show it on the internet. Then is he doing President lineage Hung Gar? Or is the President part of his hung gar lineage? What a joke? (Sarcastic analogy in case the BS supporters didn't get that).


Why don't the BS supporters take their BS back to empty flower etc and shove it down the sewers! LOL

[Terrygrey]

He says that SPM folks often lack the kind of, for lack of a better metaphore, "engine" inside that Hung Gar presents. Great tactical set but kind of limited and Hung Gar, especiall the Iron Wire set, provides incredible power generation that can drive the SPM frame for incredible effect.

Hey BS supporter from emptyflower, why don't you take your BS back to emptyflower and flush it down the BS sewer?

Don't troll this thread with your useless comments. Didn't I ask the EF BS supporters not to respond?

This comment : "He says that SPM folks often lack the kind of, for lack of a better metaphore, "engine" inside that Hung Gar presents. Great tactical set but kind of limited"

For a start, if springer never learnt Southern mantis properly, how would he know its limitations? (Video sifu?)
And don't even begin to bring Hung Gar into it. He has no legitimate lineage in Hung Gar right? Just a few forms, so where does the name wong fe hung come into his lineage?

Don't mislead the public!

[TenTigers]

I used to believe this was also true, but after seeing and more importantly feeling the power of a high-level SPM practitioner, who only trained SPM, I realize this is definately not the case. If learned thoroughly and correctly, the power generated by SPM is mind-boggling. Live and learn.

[Gru Bianca]

Just a simple question for you....
Have you evere walked up to a REAL Sifu personally and in his own Kwoon and asked him the same questions you've asked John thru the internet?
Have you ever addressed in person a REAL Sifu in the same way and with the same tone ?

Thanks in advance for your answer

Regards,

Luca

[Lam Tong Long]

feeling the power of a high-level SPM practitioner

Hit the nail on the head there Tiger. The point is 'high level', so JFS probably espouses TSK because he's never had much time with any high level practitioner.

Taken from a Japanese style website mailbag (circa Jan 1999) and written in email by JFS:


By way of example I have trained in Kwong Sai Jook Lum Tong Long Pai concurrent with Hung Gar. Unfortunately, the Jook Lum system was largely controlled by Lum Sang and after his death Gin Foon Mark, the best of his 3rd family disciples. Therefore, I was shut out when it came to learning 108, the master level form.

I was subsequently able to get around this gap via F. Sam, renegade disciple of Ip Shui who was working somewhat with our German counterpart to Special Forces and with whom I trained while stationed in Germany. The answer(s) come to those who seek with correct intent (Just painfully slow at times).

Funny how the story has changed in just 8 short years......

[TenTigers]

Gru Blanca.
Actually, this happens quite often. To me and others as well. People who come to the kwoon with previous experience often ask how long I've trained for, and under whom. I don't find this insulting, or intrusive, and I am glad to have "an educated consumer" enter my kwoon.
I also tell them that lineage doesn't guarantee anything, other than the possible legitamacy of the style you claim to teach. You can be the worst student under the best teacher, and you could have made "improvements and refinements" to your system to the point that it is no longer recognizable. You can also claim lineage to a fictitious character, or a deceased teacher. Heck, you can go to the Shaolin Temple and have pics with the abbott, and if you pay enough, you can do a demo in front of them and get a signed paper declaring you an honorary memeber-including a secret decoder ring. More money can buy you a tablet on the grounds. You can write books, articles, put up a website, etc.
Bottom line-either you have it or you don't. Skill and the lack threreof, cannot be hidden.

[Gru Bianca]

Thanks for your explanation as to how things are run in your Kwoon,....
... however.... I still stand by my questions.

Regards,

Luca

[Gru Bianca]

Agreed 100%

Today people tend to forget even about basic etiquette.

Regards,

Luca

[Wong Ying Home]

I remember somebody once saying something about washing dirty laundry in public..can't quite remember what it was though ????:p

[jo]

Just a simple question for you....
Have you evere walked up to a REAL Sifu personally and in his own Kwoon and asked him the same questions you've asked John thru the internet?
Have you ever addressed in person a REAL Sifu in the same way and with the same tone ?

Thanks in advance for your answer

Regards,

Luca

Respectfully.

Have you EVER known a "Sifu with a kwoon" to refuse to answer the most basic question asked of all "Sifus" who make claim of linegae and skill?

Have you EVER known a "Sifu with a kwoon" to be as racist, disrepectful, foul-mouthed and totally full of crap like Springer?

For all his crowing about kicking butt, he has NEVER ONCE in the last ten years actually showed up for a challenge match. Thats right, the BIG MAN has wanked out and not showed up...not once.

-jo

[jo]

I am a little confused here Terry.
The lionsroar website you mention actually shows John and some people that, if you knew what you were talking about, would answer all your questions.
So, what is your confusion?
I take it you know nothing of Hung Ga or SPM ?
You certainly don't seem to know or recognise anyone in those pictures with John.

What is your agenda?

Those people in those photos with Jack are quite annoyed with him right now because of his antics, total lack of respect, mouthboxing and outright racist insults he posted on the internet directed to members of the Associations which John was brought into. He will soon be an ex-member of the Chinese Freemasons and Hung Mun, and then we will hear even more bull about how "his skill puts him above all" and the small group of people who worship Jack will gladly open wide and swallow even more for him. Funny how his excommunication coincides with his choice to "close his hands", making it look like he quit, rather that being tossed out.

-jo

[Lam Tong Long]

Those people in those photos with Jack are quite annoyed with him right now because of his antics, total lack of respect, mouthboxing and outright racist insults he posted on the internet directed to members of the Associations which John was brought into. He will soon be an ex-member of the Chinese Freemasons and Hung Mun, and then we will hear even more bull about how "his skill puts him above all" and the small group of people who worship Jack will gladly open wide and swallow even more for him. Funny how his excommunication coincides with his choice to "close his hands", making it look like he quit, rather that being tossed out.

-jo

Almost the same way his "walking away from the Lee Yin Sing Pai" occured too.

[jo]

Jack and Steve managed to embarass themselves to no end over the LYS debacle.

First, Steve claims to be of the Ho Sing line, with the two of them crowing about Ho Sing being the "challenge fighter" of the clan, the REAL DEAL KICKASS MO-FO!!! In other words, the inference is that Jack and Steve are getting the "inside the door good stuff" with Jack getting his via Video Cassette from Steve. Then a few months later, Jack and Steve say that Ho Sing was a only minor player and that Lee Lien was the REAL DEAL.

Their pattern of hypocrisy is amazing. One day they have a direct conduit to the "challenge fighter" of the pai, and then they throw him under the bus as someone not worthy of their time. Hilarious. Funny how none of thier followers fail to see the hypocrisy and outright lies these two tell.

Not long ago, Steve was calling Roger Hagood "Sifu"!!! He did it in his book and on the internet! Steve and Jack were learning SPM via Hagood's Video Cassette Class. Then they started a "private" online forum where they plotted against Hagood! Hypocrisy and lies are the coin of their realm.

So THEN they decide to suck up to Lee Lein. Jack and Steve concoct the scheme to make Jack "the USA Representative" of LYS. Even though Jack had NEVER MET Lee Lein!!! AMAZING!!! He was made a "USA Rep" of a system he learned via Video Cassette from Steve!

Then Jack visits Lee Lien, and he claims that the LYS hand was "trasmitted" to him by Lee Lien in a matter of hours.

But Jack and Steve forget that they had debunked the notion of "hand to hand transmission" a few months earlier on many forums!!! HAR HAR HAR!!!! I

While Jack was in the UK, he met up with a bunch of his followers. He NEVER SHOWED ANY SPM OF ANY KIND to them. All he did was his demonstrate his Barroom Brawling 101 and US ARMY Basic Training 101. We have all seen his pathetic video on YouTube.

Then Jack announces that he has no respect for Lee Lien and the LYS pai. Wheres the love, Jack?

These two manipulated Lee Lien and dragged his pai into a ****storm he, and they, did not deserve just for satisfy thier morally bankrupt, yet massively inflated egos.


-jo

[TenTigers]

-just for the record, many Sifus I have known or trained with made sure that the students learned and memorized their lineage, one even to the point that on rank tests, the first thing you had to do, was recite your lineage. This is not as such an uncommon thing as you might think.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Where is this guy located??

[jo]

Taken from his sig at:
http://z15.invisionfree.com/TruthMartialArts/index.php?act=idx

-----------------------------
John F. Springer
H'ung Ga & SPM
jfs_usa@yahoo.com
410-206-6258 (Cell)
Odenton, Maryland
-----------------------------

-jo

[Gru Bianca]

Respectfully,

answering your questions,.... basically yes to both your questions.
With Asia in mind (where I have most experience), if you pop up to a Kwoon, a very traditional Kwoon and you start shooting your questions without the proper etiquette you are not going to get the replies you were looking for.......

It' all about the way you propose yourself when asking questions......

Regards,

Luca

[Lam Tong Long]

Jack and Steve managed to embarass themselves to no end over the LYS debacle.

First, Steve claims to be of the Ho Sing line, with the two of them crowing about Ho Sing being the "challenge fighter" of the clan, the REAL DEAL KICKASS MO-FO!!! In other words, the inference is that Jack and Steve are getting the "inside the door good stuff" with Jack getting his via Video Cassette from Steve. Then a few months later, Jack and Steve say that Ho Sing was a only minor player and that Lee Lien was the REAL DEAL.

Their pattern of hypocrisy is amazing. One day they have a direct conduit to the "challenge fighter" of the pai, and then they throw him under the bus as someone not worthy of their time. Hilarious. Funny how none of thier followers fail to see the hypocrisy and outright lies these two tell.

Not long ago, Steve was calling Roger Hagood "Sifu"!!! He did it in his book and on the internet! Steve and Jack were learning SPM via Hagood's Video Cassette Class. Then they started a "private" online forum where they plotted against Hagood! Hypocrisy and lies are the coin of their realm.

So THEN they decide to suck up to Lee Lein. Jack and Steve concoct the scheme to make Jack "the USA Representative" of LYS. Even though Jack had NEVER MET Lee Lein!!! AMAZING!!! He was made a "USA Rep" of a system he learned via Video Cassette from Steve!

Then Jack visits Lee Lien, and he claims that the LYS hand was "trasmitted" to him by Lee Lien in a matter of hours.

But Jack and Steve forget that they had debunked the notion of "hand to hand transmission" a few months earlier on many forums!!! HAR HAR HAR!!!! I

While Jack was in the UK, he met up with a bunch of his followers. He NEVER SHOWED ANY SPM OF ANY KIND to them. All he did was his demonstrate his Barroom Brawling 101 and US ARMY Basic Training 101. We have all seen his pathetic video on YouTube.

Then Jack announces that he has no respect for Lee Lien and the LYS pai. Wheres the love, Jack?

These two manipulated Lee Lien and dragged his pai into a ****storm he, and they, did not deserve just for satisfy thier morally bankrupt, yet massively inflated egos.


-jo

Wow! Presuming that I don't know you (and reading your other posts confirms this to me) I can only be impressed at how well you understand the situation.

To be fair, many of those you call his 'followers' from the seminar have since acknowledged the hypocrisy and out right lying of this sorry pair.

Hell, Steve is so gutless he called the police to get a restraining order to avoid having to 'put up' against my sidai. We have a copy of the document along with recordings of the police calls. Said he had "threatened his family"! Actually it was as follows:


You have never been a student of Ho Sing. Not one single member of his last group (the one you claim) accepts that you are.

If you have any issue with this then make arrangements to meet Eddie Berry, Steven Kwan or myself IN PERSON and repeat your claims.

We'll be happy to travel to your 'backgarden', Liverpool, at GM Lee's or we'll even meet you at Ken Liu's place if you desire.

You've talked a lot but you've yet to present in person despite repeated offers of the above.

So instead of trying to send out your 'friend' JFS to fight your battles be a man and handle it yourself.

If you PM/email you can have my contact details.
If you post back on a forum you will be shown for what you are: a coward who is more librarian than fighter.

It's in your hands....

http://p072.ezboard.com/ftaekwondo67109frm26.showMessageRange?topicID=353. topic&start=21&stop=40

Then on BS-do Kwan called him out AGAIN at which point Steve called his Sifu asking for my phone number so we could "sort things out".......
....before giving it to a Merseyside police!

We need to get him a "Stop Snitching" T-shirt like out of the music videos, LOL!

[Terrygrey]

Well, for the BS supporters: there is no need to throw more insults or try to troll and derail this thread, or try to change the subject. It appears to be quite obvious now, and 'the answer is out there' in this thread.

Springer has no real legitimate lineage in Wong Fei Hung Hung Gar. (So he shouldn't try to "imply" he does)

For the 'trolls' Gru Bianca and Dale dugas (courtesy of emptyflower 'etiquette ' eh?), yeah a 'real' sifu with a 'real' kwoon with 'real' lineage is so PROUD of his 'real inheritance' of knowledge and 'real' elders that HE CAN'T SIMPLY NAME HIS 'REAL' HUNG GAR TEACHER AND HIS 'REAL' LINEAGE! Yeah he the 'real deal' yeah very credible (the sound of fahrting!) (Some sarcasm here in case the BS supporters don't get it).

BS supporters, you got the guts to call 'real' BS what it is: BS !?

[Terrygrey]

Thanks to JO and Lam Tong long for their info!

[Terrygrey]

So Jack springer and steve richards SPM video sifus !?

What a pair, eh?

Says a lot about the BS supporters that support these two!

[jo]

Dale Dugas, another self-appointed, self-promoter.

"Expert at Southern Shorthand"...and former video disciple of Roger Hagood!

Speaking of trolls, you did not dispute a single thing written in this thread about your fellow huckster Jack, beacuse you cannot dispute the truth.

-jo

[Lama Pai Sifu]

I haven't read anywhere, where Terrygrey has claimed superior MA skills.

He has inquired about Jack Springers past teachers (lineage), that's all.

We all want to know about a person's past teachers, as it does not paint an entire picture, but it does get an idea of the quality of the canvas. The 'potential' for a masterpiece, so to speak.

Troll or not, Terrygrey seems to be making a legitimate inquiry. I've ran into my fair share of trolls on this board, and would not classify Terrygrey as one of them.

It does seem that several people on this board have a 'vested' interest in keeping Jack Spriner's lineage to themselves. As an outside person, asking respectfully and with a great deal of time/experience in TCMA, could someone tell me about a more postitive side of Jack Springer? I had never heard of him before and I am now interested.

NO one likes a fraud. If Jack Springer has done and trained with the people he claims to train with, and for the length of time that he claims, then he is legit. A fraud is not based on skill; it's based on being honest about your background to your contemporaries and your students (and potential students, if that is your business). I am not implying that ANYONE here is a fraud, just clarifying my definition of one.

Just curious to find out the other side to the story.

[golden arhat]

u ppl are funny


LOL:D

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

I thought Jack Springer's name was John? :confused:

[jo]

And this from yet another no name, no contact info, no email address listed coward who makes all sorts of claims of knowledge yet is totally ashamed of coming out and stating who they actually are. At least I stand up and say where I am and where I teach and where you can prove I exist, so anyone anytime can come see what my skills are. You up for that? I invite you as well.

You mouth boxing people are funny. You're bark is definitely worse than your bite.



Facts are facts.

I spoke the truth about you and your hero, Jack Springer.

If you have any evidence that what I wrote is false, bring it on.

-jo

[jo]

Facts are facts.

This the second, and last time I will say to you; If you have any evidence that what I wrote is false, bring it on.

-jo

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Dale,

Let's assume that you could easily beat up any of these guys you are dissagreeing with. What does that prove? Neither of them claimed you have poor skills, or even that J. Springer has poor skills. But you seem fixated on discrediting them by telling them to fight you.

Why don't you just shut them up by addressing their questions or rebutting the facts they have presented?

You keep telling them that 'no one will listen' to them as they are anonymous, but that is obviously untrue. We're all starting to listen because no one is contesting thier fact/fiction accounts of J. Springers traininers.

Why don't you lose the hostility, as you are NEVER going to get the opportunity to fight with them, and have a debate, albeit on the forum or privately?

Just a bit of advice,

[jo]

Dale's pathology suggests that he needs to find approval at any costs.

Springer has provided him, and others of thier ilk, a forum in which to worship him.

They provide the worship, Springer provides the validation they need to exist.

They do not realize how diminish themselves by defending an individual of such low moral character because they are delusional misfits, filled with self-appointed righteousness.

Dale, are you honoring your Shifu, John P. Painter by sucking up to Jack Springer?

Does he know that associate yourself with a man who has shown contempt for authority, brotherhood, blood oaths, or respect of any kind? A man who has lied, made empty death threaths, who has never showed up for a gong sau?

But then, like most of the JackOffs, you have had a multitude of Sifu's, and have studied a plethora of systems, becoming a Jack of All Trades and Master of None!

You deny Jack's anti-social behavior, not realizing the damage you are doing to your own reputation.

You claim to be an "Expert in Southern Shorthand" yet you are ashamed to mention your Shifu Roger Hagood in your website?

You have the gall to post not a repudiation of the facts presented, but to whine about the messenger!

Then you ran over to The House Of Jack and posted some lame-a$$ed suckup to Jack;
http://z15.invisionfree.com/TruthMartialArts/index.php?showtopic=1267&st=0&#last
and you proceeded to crow to the rafters about your lame-a$$ed response????

A response in which you could not refute anything that was written because its all true!

-jo

[Mr Punch]

u ppl are funny


LOL:DI'm beginning to like you more and more. :D

These people are all morons. No, even more stupid, they're less-ons.

Where are those mods with their big locks when you need them?! :D

[Terrygrey]

Dale Dugas, another self-appointed, self-promoter.

"Expert at Southern Shorthand"...and former video disciple of Roger Hagood!

Speaking of trolls, you did not dispute a single thing written in this thread about your fellow huckster Jack, beacuse you cannot dispute the truth.

-jo

Hmmm..... is this a common trend or not? "Frauds supporting frauds"?!

It would be reasonable to wonder why on earth would some people go to great lengths to "defend" a fraud (Attaking someone for asking question, throw personal insults, deter from the question YET won't simply answer a simple question which was asked.)?

But it would be a bit more obvious if there is something "in common", or shared "interests", like if your a fraud and your fellow fraud got caught, go try to "defend" him with the insults. But don't answer the question or you blow the cover? LOL

So Dale Dugas and other fraud supporters, what IS YOUR AGENDA for supporting a fraud?
Looks like Dale dugas has made some more posts, some "tough" talking eh? But now they are gone. Did he delete them? If so, I wonder why?

Well now, Dale dugas "Expert at Southern Shorthand" another VIDEO SIFU in SPM, so your "video classmates" with Jack Springer and Steve Richards? So how many videos have you mastered to be 'expert at southern shorthand' , eh?

And also, check out your 'Dr. John Painter's nine dragon baguazhang' ! Looks like you and your teacher's lineage and story was also under question and highly suspicious fraud!
http://www.shenwu.com/discus/messages/431/2333.html?1124517121

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?p=119777

A post to get started:

By Omega (Unregistered Guest) on Wednesday, January 07, 2004 - 05:16 pm: Edit Post
This man John Painter is a joke. Take a look at his website. There's a picture of two soldiers he claims to be Li Long Dao his teacher and Li Zhang Lai, Long Dao's father serving in Chiang Kai Shek's army. According to the lineage chart, Li Zhang Lai was born in 1850 and Li Long Dao in 1880. Chiang Kai Shek became leader of the Kuomintang in 1925, suceeding Dr, San Yat Sun. Even if both Li Zhang Lai and Li Long Dao joined Chiang Kai Shek's army in 1925 (they might have joined a few years later), that would made them 75 years and 45 years old respectively in that picture. There's no way in the world the elder Li looks 75 years old in the photo and I doubt that Chiang Kai Shek would want anyone to begin his career in his army at aged 75 years.

Painter desperately needs "hard evidence" to back up his outlandish claims.

And what about the photo Painter purorts to be Li Zhang Lai and Li Long Dao, both in army uniform? Take a closer look. It's a picture of two Japanese soldiers.


LOOKS LIKE PAINTER TOOK DOWN THE QUESTIONABLE PICTURES, EH?

FRAUD!?

[Terrygrey]

Well, the fraud supporters if you have any substance to defend the frauds or suspect frauds jack springer , steve richards and dale dugas, then bring it on!

No need to dodge the questions or "statements posted". No need to change the subject or to 'tough talk'. No need to throw the insults. Simply present evidence. Put up or shut up!

For a start, here is the simple question if you fraud supporters have any guts to simply answer:

WHO IS JACK SPRINGER'S HUNG GAR TEACHER AND WHAT IS HIS LINEAGE?

This is an opportunity to 'defend' your side of the story, so don't say you didn't have a chance. Got the guts? Otherwise its quite obvious, and someone has already answered the question in this thread!

The current answer and where all the evidence is pointing; Jack Springer has no real legitimate lineage in Wong Fei Hung Hung Gar. So he should not 'imply' that he does! Reasonable?

Don't cheat the public!

[sanjuro_ronin]

Wow...just wow...

I have never seen such a group before.

So, according to this thread the following people are frauds:
John Springer
Dale Dugas
Steve Richards
John Painter

and everyone associated with them.

Wow, I have seen monumental stupidity before, but never like this.

The frauds have all their personal info available for anyone and the "legit" people, nothing.

Wow...truly a high mark in TCMA.

Good work guys.

[Lam Tong Long]

So, according to this thread the following people are frauds:
John Springer
Dale Dugas
Steve Richards
John Painter

and everyone associated with them.

The frauds have all their personal info available for anyone and the "legit" people, nothing.

I've no idea about Dale Dugass or Dr. John Painter but can say without question that Steve Richards and John Springer are frauds.

Their (and by their I mean what they claim) personal info is available, yet it is completely falsified.

Richards trained with Ho Sing less than a handful of times. He trained with my sifu for a period of around 2 weeks. And GM Lee has confirmed that he trained, at most, 6 times (some of which he called "not training but just talking and taking some photo's").

Springer met the man he claims "gave him the whole LYS hand" for a sum total of ONCE!

Nothing fraudulent there....

[phoenixrising]

This is a quote from JFS taken from the link to the thread above (truth martial arts) " I see where 7 Stars remains as always, a ****ing sack of ****. Nice of Gene to enable him that way. Gene bleeds ... a lot ... when our paths cross, and they will cross."
- I'm surprised noone else has commented on the fact that he threatens Gene, on a public forum no less- and I thought he was a lawyer? I don't know if he's a fraud or not, skilled or not, don't really care, but I will say that his internet behavior, on the link above and on this forum in the past, is certainly strange, to say the least. He comes off as a GENUINE psychopath. Its also strange that whenever you see a photo of him he has this very intense look on his face, even when the chinese masters next to him are smiling.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Well, that about takes the cake, don't it? Looks like he's ripping 7* too, from what I can see.

Seems hes pretty harsh on Wing Lam as well.


Of course, anyone who actually thinks his Sifu Wing is anything other than a ****rat Mutant Dwarf Form Fariey is outright stupid ... or delusional.

I'm very popular ... ya know ...


Springer is an idiot...I don't care what his lineage is. The guy needs to grow up.

[SevenStar]

This is a quote from JFS taken from the link to the thread above (truth martial arts) " I see where 7 Stars remains as always, a ****ing sack of ****. Nice of Gene to enable him that way. Gene bleeds ... a lot ... when our paths cross, and they will cross."
- I'm surprised noone else has commented on the fact that he threatens Gene, on a public forum no less- and I thought he was a lawyer? I don't know if he's a fraud or not, skilled or not, don't really care, but I will say that his internet behavior, on the link above and on this forum in the past, is certainly strange, to say the least. He comes off as a GENUINE psychopath. Its also strange that whenever you see a photo of him he has this very intense look on his face, even when the chinese masters next to him are smiling.

ROFL... wow... which thread was this?

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

http://z15.invisionfree.com/TruthMar...267&st=0&#last

[brothernumber9]

of course he's ripping seven*. A while back he was banned here for his racist diatribe against him. I don't think he (JFS) would end up on the better end of things should their paths meet in a confrontational sense. He barks back bitterly and adolescently at any sign he, (JFS), may perceive as impugnity.
Just the same, IMHO he was willing to put himself out there at a few throwdowns. He can defend himself.
His credentials in TCMA is certainly speculative, nonetheless his military training and experience sets him apart from normal people. His association to Hung Men and Hip Sing has been confirmed.
I'm not too sure why anyone would care about how he learned what he claims, unless they were either willing to learn from him directly, or confront him directly on those issues.
In regards to Gene, I doubt their paths really would cross. If they did, it is likely that nothing would happen unless one or the other says they will pick up the tab.
I don't know John Springer, even though he is relatively local. I suspect that if one were to meet him in person, at least at a public place with either food or drink, that he is approachable. If I am wrong or right, I would hope someone would post their experience to such, as I am and always have been a gossip wh0re. luv the stuff.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

I have had some pleasant, and productive phone calls with him in the past. He has some past connections with a former long distance teacher of mine. His online persona however is much to be desired.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I've no idea about Dale Dugass or Dr. John Painter but can say without question that Steve Richards and John Springer are frauds.

Their (and by their I mean what they claim) personal info is available, yet it is completely falsified.

Richards trained with Ho Sing less than a handful of times. He trained with my sifu for a period of around 2 weeks. And GM Lee has confirmed that he trained, at most, 6 times (some of which he called "not training but just talking and taking some photo's").

Springer met the man he claims "gave him the whole LYS hand" for a sum total of ONCE!

Nothing fraudulent there....


And you are?

[sanjuro_ronin]

So, these gentlemen are frauds yet they post all their info.
You guys...not so much.

Clear that up for me if you will please.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Just because someone posts their info does not make them legit, or fraudulent. Oom Yung Doe posts all thier school info too, and they are universally recognized as the biggest frauds in US martial history.

[SanHeChuan]

Well see if you post your info and it's a lie, that makes you a fraud.

If you make no claims then you can't be a fraud.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Correct.


10chrctlmt

[sanjuro_ronin]

So, someone accuses someone else of being a fraud based on what THEY know, and THEY don't have to prove that what THEY know is legit?

So their basis for fraudulent accusations is what exactly??

None of those accused seem hard to find...

[sanjuro_ronin]

Well see if you post your info and it's a lie, that makes you a fraud.

If you make no claims then you can't be a fraud.


Great, so where is the proof that they are frauds ??

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Who cares if they are hard to find or not? Accessibility has noting to do with fraudulence, or legitimacy.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Who cares if they are hard to find or not? Accessibility has noting to do with fraudulence, or legitimacy.


As of right now, all I see is a few people ( that don't mention their name ) accusing people that have put up THEIR info as being frauds, yet these accusers don't put up the "proof" they have of the fraudulent activity other than THEIR heresay, heresay that is attached to NO PERSONAL INFO.

Yeah, ok then.

[Indestructible]

I don't know J. Springer other than some of the online reading I've done. However this subject is interesting to me.

Seems this discussion is about qualification. When someone comes to my Shifu's school full of questions the first thing that will happen is my shifu will qualify that person. Who are you? What is your background? Do you desire to train under me?

If that person person will not answer these questions or has no desire to train my shifu will tell them to go away - no (or limited) questions answered by my shifu.

Why should someone divulge personal information to someone unknown or someone who refuses to identify themselves or has no desire to train under him? Usually some agenda or another is at hand in this case.

just my opinion.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I don't know J. Springer other than some of the online reading I've done. However this subject is interesting to me.

Seems this discussion is about qualification. When someone comes to my Shifu's school full of questions the first thing that will happen is my shifu will qualify that person. Who are you? What is your background? Do you desire to train under me?

If that person person will not answer these questions or has no desire to train my shifu will tell them to go away - no (or limited) questions answered by my shifu.

Why should someone divulge personal information to someone unknown or someone who refuses to identify themselves or has no desire to train under him? Usually some agenda or another is at hand in this case.

just my opinion.

Yep, pretty much.

Anyone that comes to my dojo to train and asks from my qualifications, I ask them for their info first and then I lead them to the dojo floor where I show them mine.

[jo]

As of right now, all I see is a few people ( that don't mention their name ) accusing people that have put up THEIR info as being frauds, yet these accusers don't put up the "proof" they have of the fraudulent activity other than THEIR heresay, heresay that is attached to NO PERSONAL INFO.

Yeah, ok then.


Ronin, please show where anything I have written about Jack or Steve is false.

-jo

[sanjuro_ronin]

Ronin, please show where anything I have written about Jack or Steve is false.

-jo

YOU are the accuser, the burden of proof is on YOU, not on me.
If you have the proof, I will be the first to say, "there it is".

[TenTigers]

ok, so with that logic, I can say,I trained with Bruce Lee, but it was a very private matter. The only other people who knew about it was James Lee, and Brandon, who was probably too young to remember anyway.
Now, your job is to dispute it and show proof.
Until then, I am the true inheritor of JKD.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Then all you have to do is demonstrate what you know.
And if I have issues with it, I will be sure to make it very clear.

You have a valid point, not saying you don't, but "that logic" as you put it, is just as good as the crap being slung here.

And yes, the burden of proof is on the accuser, since when has that changed?

[phoenixrising]

here is the working link http://z15.invisionfree.com/TruthMartialArts/index.php?showtopic=1267&st=0&#last

[omarthefish]

Lol..

All it took me was almost a full minute with google to answer all these questions.

http://lionsroar.name/master_john_f_springer.htm

Some people. :rolleyes:

[Black Jack II]

there is a 25 plus page deal about him on Bullshido somewhere if you look for it.

[phoenixrising]

Looking at the photos on that page, I still think his expression in every photo is strange- its like "real warriors don't smile" or something- looks like some kind of an (yang?) imbalance to me.

[SifuAbel]

Only in your feeble mind.

You don't seem to see the forest for the trees.

Bottom line, like him or hate him, he has real ties.

So weighing this out as a third party, all I see are some unknown malcontents smearing gossip and rumor about someone who has been a major player in the CMA community for decades.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

I can't seem to see anything on that wierd looking site that tells anything about Springer's lineage.

Can you post direct links so this can be put to rest?

[omarthefish]

Just feed his name into google and you'll find it.

John+Springer+hung+gar

I actually can't open it from Firefox. I need to go into Torpark and get the page from an anonymouse proxy. But jeez dudes. Never heard of control+f ? Just find the words "John F Springer" or "Lineage" or "John Springer".

[jo]

Jack got his Hung Gar from Bill Chung who got a few forms from Gin Foon Mark.

Anyone who says differently, please provide proof.

-jo

[jo]

Only in your feeble mind.

You don't seem to see the forest for the trees.

Bottom line, like him or hate him, he has real ties.

So weighing this out as a third party, all I see are some unknown malcontents smearing gossip and rumor about someone who has been a major player in the CMA community for decades.

Har har har!!!!

You are not an innocent third party Abel, you are a certified JackOff!

A rock-steady-member of the Jack Springer Lick-It-Up Crew!

Jack is about to be expelled, expunged and excommunicated from the Freemasons and the Hung Muen for his racist comments and outright lies.:p

And lets we forget, Rudee, you were BULLSHIDO'ED just like your hero Jack.:eek:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0f2QFMV4IGI

Birds of a Feather. LOl! :D :D :D

-jo

[SanHeChuan]

Thats sweet, I want a bullshido'ed video :D

[phoenixrising]

"Only in your feeble mind"- was that directed at me? Abel- I have seen your countless internet wars with Knifefighter and Ross- I'm not interested in playing that game with you. I'm a grown man, not a 3 year old, and have more positive and mature uses of my time. I simply made some observations that are obvious to a neutral party. Weren't you supposed to show up at Knifefighter's office, by the way? How'd that go for you?

I understand that JFS was supposed to throwdown with Asia- anyone know what happened?

[omarthefish]

And lets we forget, Rudee, you were BULLSHIDO'ED just like your hero Jack.:eek:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0f2QFMV4IGI

Birds of a Feather. LOl! :D :D :D

-jo

Wow.

You just lost any last little shred of credibility you may have had. "Bullshido'd"? :confused: Like those pimply faced web nerds have any authority at all. All smack talk and foreplay but never any action. The bushido nerds chickened out and ran off like little girls from Mr. Springer. They also resorted to editing other peoples posts, using John's account to post and put things in his mouth, lock threads when they have no comeback and open them just briefly so their ***** admins can get the last word. I can count on one hand the people over there worth anything. Actually I can only name 2 of them that even qualify as human. The rest are just a bunch of scaredey cat wannabees who'd **** their pants in a real fight.

They're the biggest fraud on the net. By associating with them you just paint your self as a wanker who needs a cult in order to feel "in".

[jo]

Wow.
They're (Bullshido) the biggest fraud on the net. By associating with them you just paint your self as a wanker who needs a cult in order to feel "in".

Please show where I have EVER been associated with Bullshido.

You can't and that makes you a LIAR.

Your hero, Whacko Jacko, posted there THOUSANDS of times before he was BULLSHIDO'ED.

SO....by your logic, since Jack definitely was associated with, and was proud to be member of Bullshido....Jack is "a wanker who needs a cult in order to feel "in""!!!!! :rolleyes: :eek: :D

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!:D :D :D

GAME. SET. MATCH.:p

NEXT!!!!!:cool:

-jo

[SanHeChuan]

You really have no Idea who your talking to. :rolleyes:
Not everyone who post on this thread or disagrees with you is all for Springer.
Who are you, to bring this stupid argument to our board, and start mouthing off to our members. P1ss off and take springer with you.


Please show where I have EVER been associated with Bullshido.

uh right here moron


And lets we forget, Rudee, you were BULLSHIDO'ED just like your hero Jack.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0f2QFMV4IGI

[Gru Bianca]

This all thread was started by Terry in reaction to the fact that his questions were not replied in the manners he was hoping for..
with that regard and strictly sticking to the original issue I think the following quote from Brothernumber9 first and Indestructible after perfectly nailed the all issue:

Brothernumber9

“………nonetheless his military training and experience sets him apart from normal people. His association to Hung Men and Hip Sing has been confirmed.
I'm not too sure why anyone would care about how he learned what he claims, unless they were either willing to learn from him directly, or confront him directly on those issues……”.

Indestructible

“……..Seems this discussion is about qualification. When someone comes to my Shifu's school full of questions the first thing that will happen is my shifu will qualify that person. Who are you? What is your background? Do you desire to train under me?

If that person person will not answer these questions or has no desire to train my shifu will tell them to go away - no (or limited) questions answered by my shifu.

Why should someone divulge personal information to someone unknown or someone who refuses to identify themselves or has no desire to train under him? Usually some agenda or another is at hand in this case.”


All the rest I believe it to be an old war between John and people that dislike him but...it should stay as such,.. a matter between John and them.

I doubt however I will ever see a video or any proof of sort of someone going to John to settle in the old way


Regards,

Luca

[Terrygrey]

Well, for the BS supporters: there is no need to throw more insults or try to troll and derail this thread, or try to change the subject. It appears to be quite obvious now, and 'the answer is out there' in this thread.

Springer has no real legitimate lineage in Wong Fei Hung Hung Gar. (So he shouldn't try to "imply" he does)

For the 'trolls' Gru Bianca and Dale dugas (courtesy of emptyflower 'etiquette ' eh?), yeah a 'real' sifu with a 'real' kwoon with 'real' lineage is so PROUD of his 'real inheritance' of knowledge and 'real' elders that HE CAN'T SIMPLY NAME HIS 'REAL' HUNG GAR TEACHER AND HIS 'REAL' LINEAGE! Yeah he the 'real deal' yeah very credible (the sound of fahrting!) (Some sarcasm here in case the BS supporters don't get it).

BS supporters, you got the guts to call 'real' BS what it is: BS !?

So the BS supporters from emptyflower and 'truthmartialarts.org' are back.
The webpage on lions roar is old news. No where does it mention his lineage.

For the BS supporters, yeah look the pictures. Yeah take pictures with the president, or put pictures of the President on Lionsroar. Now is springer doing president style/lineage hung gar, or is the President part of his hung gar lineage? Or is it pentagon hung gar ? LOL LOL (Sarcasm in case you guys don't get it).

[Terrygrey]

Well, the fraud supporters if you have any substance to defend the frauds or suspect frauds jack springer , steve richards and dale dugas, then bring it on!

No need to dodge the questions or "statements posted". No need to change the subject or to 'tough talk'. No need to throw the insults. Simply present evidence. Put up or shut up!

For a start, here is the simple question if you fraud supporters have any guts to simply answer:

WHO IS JACK SPRINGER'S HUNG GAR TEACHER AND WHAT IS HIS LINEAGE?


This is an opportunity to 'defend' your side of the story, so don't say you didn't have a chance. Got the guts? Otherwise its quite obvious, and someone has already answered the question in this thread!

The current answer and where all the evidence is pointing; Jack Springer has no real legitimate lineage in Wong Fei Hung Hung Gar. So he should not 'imply' that he does! Reasonable?

Don't cheat the public!

Well, now back to topic.
BS supporters, just answer this question if you have any substance to 'defend' springer.

WHO IS JACK SPRINGER'S HUNG GAR TEACHER AND WHAT IS HIS LINEAGE?

This is an opportunity to 'defend' your side of the story, so don't say you didn't have a chance. Got the guts?

No need for any more stupid 'trolling' of this thread by you BS supporters, ( courtesy of emptyflower 'etiquette ', eh ?) Don't change the subject. No need to throw any insults. No need to tough talk.

Got the guts, answer the simple questions.

Otherwise the answer is already obvious, and its already answered in this thread anyway!

BS supporters, you got the guts?

[jo]

You really have no Idea who your talking to. :rolleyes:
Not everyone who post on this thread or disagrees with you is all for Springer.
Who are you, to bring this stupid argument to our board, and start mouthing off to our members. P1ss off and take springer with you.



uh right here moron

I was never a registered user at Bullshido, I never posted on Bullshido. :confused:

I posted a link to a YouTube page which ANYONE can see, so that does not make me "associated" with Bullshido. I never "brought" this or any other argument to your board.

Now if you want to make the argument that YouTube is the same as Bullshido.....:D

BTW...there was no need for the ad-hominem attack.

-jo

[Lam Tong Long]

His association to Hung Men and Hip Sing has been confirmed.


Confirmed as what? A "Triad Enforcer" as he claims?
Sorry but 'Executive Director' sounds more like a desk job.

When they tried to run a throwdown at his lodge he was moved on by the police.

[Lam Tong Long]

And you are?

Tsk, tsk! Ladies first....don't become a hypocrit by failing to adhere your own standard.

Sanjuro Ronin...Ronin...where have I seen that before.....

[Lam Tong Long]

None of those accused seem hard to find...

Richards is really hard to find. Never wants to meet his detractors and account for his LYING. Not even at his own sifu's place. He's so pu$$y he'll call the police instead of facing someone.

[omarthefish]

...And lets we forget, Rudee, you were BULLSHIDO'ED just like your hero Jack.:eek:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0f2QFMV4IGI

Birds of a Feather. LOl! :D :D :D

-jo



Your hero, Whacko Jacko, posted there THOUSANDS of times before he was BULLSHIDO'ED.....



SO....by your logic, since Jack definitely was associated with, and was proud to be member of Bullshido....Jack is "a wanker who needs a cult in order to feel "in""!!!!! :rolleyes: :eek: :D


"Jack" has done nothing more than call each and every member of bullshido walking pieces of rotting pimpleflesh who squat to pee and who are still waiting for their rocks to drop before they crawl out of their cesspool of a website and start embarrasing fungal infections just by association. You, by your apparently unconcious use of Bullshido cult terminology have shown yourself to be just the kind of smegmatic secretion he was reffering to.

[Lam Tong Long]

As of right now, all I see is a few people ( that don't mention their name ) accusing people that have put up THEIR info as being frauds

What? They don't mention their own name. You mean like you are doing?
'Terry Grey' sounds more likely to be a real name than 'Sanjuro Ronin'.

Joker.

[Black Jack II]

lmao,

Rudy has a bullshido youtube section. That is some sweet shiznit.:D

[Mr Punch]

This is a quote from JFS taken from the link to the thread above (truth martial arts) " I see where 7 Stars remains as always, a ****ing sack of ****. Nice of Gene to enable him that way. Gene bleeds ... a lot ... when our paths cross, and they will cross."
- I'm surprised noone else has commented on the fact that he threatens Gene, on a public forum no less...Some of the stuff on that thread is disgusting behaviour, plain and simple. Whether they have a legitimate grievance or what, there's no excuse for that kind of BS. If I were Gene I would be straight with my lawyers over this clearly stated threat of violence.

And those pox-ridden little punks accuse this board of being overrun by trolls?! At least Gene makes money off trolls - wtf is the excuse of Abel and the rest of you who allow this kind of behaviour on your board?

[Lam Tong Long]

I doubt however I will ever see a video or any proof of sort of someone going to John to settle in the old way

Works both ways. I doubt I'll ever see any proof of JFS fulfilling ANY of the myriad of threats he's made or HIM going to settle it the old fashioned way.

[Lam Tong Long]

"Jack" has done nothing more than call each and every member of bullshido walking pieces of rotting pimpleflesh who squat to pee and who are still waiting for their rocks to drop before they crawl out of their cesspool of a website and start embarrasing fungal infections just by association. You, by your apparently unconcious use of Bullshido cult terminology have shown yourself to be just the kind of smegmatic secretion he was reffering to.

Was that before or after his 2000th post or his 3000th post? That is before the "cult of JFS" was demolished or after?

It's easy to 'wash your hands' of the place AFTER they expose you as fraudulently teaching grappling/groundwork:

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=31256

[SanHeChuan]

This thread should be lock for even mentioning bullshido. :eek:

[omarthefish]

What?

You think I didn't know about that? Get a clue you brainless nematode. Those threads are the reason Bullshido lost any and all sense of validity. They embarrassed themselves, backdown from their own challenges, edited his posts, took pics out of context and some of the mods even started posting under John's name because not only could they not outfight him, they can't out argue him either. He didn't "wash his hands of the place". He called them on their BS right from the start. That little bunghole who runs the place tried to enlist John to go beat up Rudy. rofl.

I've got 2 or 3 thousand posts on the place from BEFORE John ever showed up. I opened my account when it was still called McDojo. I'm the one who you could say "washed his hands" of the place. I left about a year ago, almost 2 now. I left because it started becomong obvious that the only people they ever "outed" as frauds were people who were never taken seriously to begin with.

Bullshido is a complete joke. Phrost is a joke. Their whole staff other than Omega and Asia are jokes. A bunch of pimply faced kids in MMA shorts. They are the same as the LARP'ers in ninja suits that they like to make fun of. There's no connection between Truthmartialarts and Emptyflower. None of the staff no each other and there is very little crossover between the posters. Just a couple of guys. The only thing they have in common is people with half a brain who can recognize that Terry is trying to air some kid of personal grudge online and that Bullshido is a cesspool of BJJ moonies.

[Lam Tong Long]

Bullshido is a complete joke.

Hey, I'm not championing or defending BS-do. I personally hate the place. And agree that it is full of BJJ/MMA nutriders.

I watched the JFS thing unfold. He gave as good as he got. But inevitably lost because he couldn't validate his BJJ, Catch wrestling or Greco-Roman claims.

I know directly from his claimed teacher that his LYS mantis claims were fraudulent so it was unsurprising to learn that his grappling experience was also the same.

[Terrygrey]

Well, now back to topic.
BS supporters, just answer this question if you have any substance to 'defend' springer.

WHO IS JACK SPRINGER'S HUNG GAR TEACHER AND WHAT IS HIS LINEAGE?

This is an opportunity to 'defend' your side of the story, so don't say you didn't have a chance. Got the guts?

No need for any more stupid 'trolling' of this thread by you BS supporters, ( courtesy of emptyflower 'etiquette ', eh ?) Don't change the subject. No need to throw any insults. No need to tough talk.

Got the guts, answer the simple questions.

Otherwise the answer is already obvious, and its already answered in this thread anyway!

BS supporters, you got the guts?

Omarthefisth is a BS supporter from emptyflower and also posted on 'truthmartialarts.org'.When I simply asked a question, omar along with the 'sifu stier' guy suggested I go ask springer directly on that 'truthmartialarts.org' thread. So I did. When springer and supporters simply dodged the question and attacked me, this omar and sifu stier (along with a grady who was a springer student) went to all sorts of stupid "excuses" to "defend" springer, even so far as to throw insults YET THEY WON'T (OR CAN'T) ANSWER THE SIMPLE QUESTIONS.

Does that smell like BS?

Now this omar guy comes to this thread and starts 'trolling', yet again simply won't answer the question. He does post irrelevant comments like the one where springer says southern mantis lacks an 'engine', puts up a link to lionsroar page which is old news and DOES NOT EVEN MENTION SPRINGER'S LINEAGE, and this omar guy also goes on to ATTACK Jo who actually addressed the question in this thread. What a troll! What a BS artist and BS supporter!

Omar, why don't you take your BS back to emptyflower and 'truthmartialarts.org' and flush it down the BS sewer? (LOL "truthmartialarts.org" eh? 'sifu abel, ronin and this omar can't even (or won't) answer a simple "ask for the truth" question!)

[Terrygrey]

Back to topic,

The question "WHO IS JACK SPRINGER'S HUNG GAR TEACHER AND WHAT IS HIS LINEAGE"?

Answer from springer and his BS supporters: Dodge the question, attack the person asking, and attack others for providing the answer or info.

Answer based on info from this thread, and supported by behaviour of springer and his BS supporters:

JACK SPRINGER HAS NO REAL LEGITIMATE LINEAGE TO WONG FEI HUNG HUNG GAR. (Therefore he should not try to 'imply' that he does. Reasonable?)

Case closed?

If the BS supporters claim this 'conclusion' or answer is wrong, then WHAT IS/ARE THEY CLAIMING IS THE 'REAL' ANSWER? They have thrown insults, trolled yet not answered the simple questions.
If the BS supporters want to defend springer and claim this answer false, then just NAME THE TEACHER SPRINGER CONSIDERS HIS 'REAL' HUNG GAR TEACHER, AND NAME THE LINEAGE. Simple, and no need to try to change the subject. No need to throw insults.
Got the guts, then answer the question!

And regarding Southern mantis, why don't you BS supporters stop attacking Jo and Lam Tong Long for providing info? If you BS supporters claim the info is wrong, then why don't you provide the answer you consider 'real' to this question:

WHO IS JACK SPRINGER'S SOUTHERN MANTIS TEACHER, AND WHAT LINEAGE?

BS supporters, if you got the guts, then answer the simple questions!

[SifuAbel]

I'm a grown man, not a 3 year old, and have more positive and mature uses of my time.

Like posting all this masturbation on the internet, yeah, mature. :rolleyes:

[SifuAbel]

Tsk, tsk! Ladies first....don't become a hypocrit by failing to adhere your own standard.

Sanjuro Ronin...Ronin...where have I seen that before.....

That was the name your mother called out at midnight while you were a boy.

[SifuAbel]

lmao,

Rudy has a bullshido youtube section. That is some sweet shiznit.:D

I have a whole section? I thought it was just the one stupid video with some of my pics and form work? Funny, people actually liked the stuff when I was in the good graces. Oh well. Live, learn, crack skulls later.

[omarthefish]

Hey, I'm not championing or defending BS-do. I personally hate the place. And agree that it is full of BJJ/MMA nutriders.

I watched the JFS thing unfold. He gave as good as he got. But inevitably lost because he couldn't validate his BJJ, Catch wrestling or Greco-Roman claims.



hah! He got banned because the pantiwaists at BS couldn't keep a straight line of thought and were all too chicken**** to test him out. You can't "win" an argument on a forum where the mods will change your post into something they can make points against. Somehow John "won" anyways. He started a talent flood from the site. People with experience and qualifications left around that time. He highlighted what a crock the whole site was. They used to stand for "put up or shut up" but after John came they turned into a bunch of whiney Phill's. Like chubby un-coordinated nerds in jr. high school who always got bullied.

I sent you over there from emptyflower because you were asking about Hung Gar on a forum devoted to bagua, xingyi and taiji. I didn't know you had a broomstick up your anus over being humiliated in public by John in your past. I was amazed that you were pegged as a troll from your second post. I thought you had an honest question but now, with all the links and the starting a new thread over here, it's obvious that he was right. He smelled the sewer on you the minute you showed up.

Rudy, John, Ronin and Steve?

Dude. I am sooooo honored to have been put in a list together with those guys. That's 4 recognized lineage holders with fighting credentials, any one of them with DECADES of training under their belt.

Thanks for the incredible compliment.

[phoenixrising]

Able,

I posted a link to another thread where Springer threatened the guy who runs this forum- I think its relevant to this post and Springer's character in general, and added my impression of the guy. If that's "masturbation" in your opinion, so be it.

Unlike you, however, I don't come to this forum and HABITUALLY get into internet wars with other posters, challenge them, and then fail to show up. If that's not masturbation, I don't know what is. You seem to derive some weird sort of pleasure from fighting with people on the internet. That's not what I do for fun. I won't respond to any more of your posts. Grow up-

[SifuAbel]

Your sense of history is "glossy". :rolleyes:

[unkokusai]

I have a whole section? I thought it was just the one stupid video with some of my pics and form work? Funny, people actually liked the stuff when I was in the good graces. Oh well. Live, learn, crack skulls later.


LOL! Come on, you have to know you are the most famous 'make a big noise and then back out' ***** on all the internet! To go out and make a whole forum dedicated to defending yourself from that and sniping at another website is the last validation needed.

[unkokusai]

Your sense of history is "glossy". :rolleyes:

No, it's "accurate."

[SifuAbel]

This, coming from the KING of hiding. The most unproven, the most unverified, the most cowardly sack of pig smegma on the planet.

I would like to invite ANYONE who thinks I am hiding to Riverside on Thursday May 10th. Shamel Park, RSVP me for a time. 11ish would be good.

This "me not showing up" bull**** is a lie told too often.

Repeat it long enough and it gets taken for the truth.

I had a feeling you'd go and whine like a stuck virgin on prom night. http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=54521

Note that my forum has ex MODS and ADMINS from that site, puke for brains.

[unkokusai]

Come on now be honest, BE HONEST. You have made a big stink time and time and time again and have agreed to meet all and sundry and have never gotten it done.

You are outright famous for it all over the web (except for those little coccoon sites you have set up for your circle-jerk sessions).


You have gone out of your way to be combative, nasty, and as trash-talking as you can but have never yet gone out of your way to make a trip. Its always "Oh, my knee!" and then "Well...well...you...you come see me." after the futilitiy of getting you on board has already been established. Come on man, it's no secret. You've played the card far too often to expect it to fool anyone.

You think you are playing a grand role, but its a tired old act that just makes you look foolish. If you want to do your KF and you believe its great...GREAT! Do that, and be content. If you really think you have the **** and someone starts with you and you can take care of things, GREAT! But why waste time *****ing and moaning and carrying a banner no one asked you to (and THEN backing out in the most transparent fashion) for no reason? Is it just for the diversion? In that case, I can understand, but if you really think you have or will convince anyone of anything by trying to reproduce JFC's act in poorer form, then you are just fooling yourself.

In short, STFU and go train (hopefully more than pawing at a double-end ball) and stop making an ass of yourself.

[omarthefish]

No, it's "accurate."


I like the freudian slip with the quotes.

[Terrygrey]

Back to topic,

The question "WHO IS JACK SPRINGER'S HUNG GAR TEACHER AND WHAT IS HIS LINEAGE"?

Answer from springer and his BS supporters: Dodge the question, attack the person asking, and attack others for providing the answer or info.

Answer based on info from this thread, and supported by behaviour of springer and his BS supporters:

JACK SPRINGER HAS NO REAL LEGITIMATE LINEAGE TO WONG FEI HUNG HUNG GAR. (Therefore he should not try to 'imply' that he does. Reasonable?)

Case closed?

If the BS supporters claim this 'conclusion' or answer is wrong, then WHAT IS/ARE THEY CLAIMING IS THE 'REAL' ANSWER? They have thrown insults, trolled yet not answered the simple questions.
If the BS supporters want to defend springer and claim this answer false, then just NAME THE TEACHER SPRINGER CONSIDERS HIS 'REAL' HUNG GAR TEACHER, AND NAME THE LINEAGE. Simple, and no need to try to change the subject. No need to throw insults.
Got the guts, then answer the question!

And regarding Southern mantis, why don't you BS supporters stop attacking Jo and Lam Tong Long for providing info? If you BS supporters claim the info is wrong, then why don't you provide the answer you consider 'real' to this question:

WHO IS JACK SPRINGER'S SOUTHERN MANTIS TEACHER, AND WHAT LINEAGE?

BS supporters, if you got the guts, then answer the simple questions!

Well BS. supporters like Omar and sifuabel, why don't you stop trolling this thread with your BS?
If you BS supporters have the guts, and if you have 'real substance' to defend springer with, then answer the simple questions with "springer's side of the story", yeah what you BS supporters and springer consider or claim to be the 'real' answers.

1.WHO IS JACK SPRINGER'S HUNG GAR TEACHER AND WHAT IS HIS LINEAGE?

2.WHO IS JACK SPRINGER'S SOUTHERN MANTIS TEACHER, AND WHAT LINEAGE?

Cut the insults and the trolling, and put up the "real answers" you want to claim, eh?

Here's the opportunity to present the 'springer's real claims'.

Got the guts?

[omarthefish]

We're trolling?

Hey man, this is YOUR thread. You've posted it on 3 forums already. lol.

[unkokusai]

I like the freudian slip with the quotes.

No slips, and put that **** cigar away!

[SifuAbel]

Sorry all I here is blah blah blah coming from an unknown spot in the world from nobody. Talk about "transparent".

My knee? Its doing beautifully , thank you. It was major surgery but thats recent history. One year ago march 30th. So I suppose you would fight with one working leg, what a moron.

How am I at fault for No one showing up? You're view is that sanctioned by Bs.com. A very convenient history since I was supposed to meet their boy BSD/Henry in march only to be usurped by the common cold. "Bad bronchitis". :rolleyes:

I've been in California all about 9 years now. In the 3.9 years I was IN A SCHOOL day in and day out in San fran. 6 days a week . Nobody showed up and there were quite a few who threatened. In my time in Riverside. I've let people know of my classes and schedules countless times. No shows either. Nobody needs a "mother may I" to come "teach me a lesson". Your " me not showing" mantra is a convenient twist of the truth. A lie told too often. And of course all those on the other end were stand up guys beyond reproach? Without all kinds of pretexts and games? Gimme a break. I had one threaten gun violence when it became "too real".

FYI, cross country threats don't mean didly squat either. So Neal Cameron, child molester, threatens to come and "correct" me for daring to say what I say. Then, Blip, nothing. Then he get arrested for a sex offense.

Please, save your bleeding vagina for the poor suckers at the prom. You making points with your buddies over this is the height of patheticalness.

[unkokusai]

So I suppose you would fight with one working leg, .

You don't have to repeat ALL your excuses, they're well documented.

[unkokusai]

How am I at fault for No one showing up? .

Yeah, you really need to give this part up. Talking truck loads of **** and then retreating into "well, you come find me!" is pretty ****ing sad.

[SifuAbel]

Paradigm shift, ass hole. "talking truckloads of ****" is a straw man argument. Not everyone disagrees with what I say. And its usually other people making the challenges when their logic accounts run dry.

Forget it, YOU wouldn't show up, we ALL know that. Your **** is endless. It wouldn't fit on a truck.

Finding me isn't hard, WHEN I'M PROVIDING THE ADDRESS!!!

[SifuAbel]

You don't have to repeat ALL your excuses, they're well documented.

So having major knee surgery is an excuse? Pardon me. :rolleyes:

Man, how much of a fruitless ******* can you be?

[sanjuro_ronin]

What? They don't mention their own name. You mean like you are doing?
'Terry Grey' sounds more likely to be a real name than 'Sanjuro Ronin'.

Joker.

Muffin, my sweet bagel, you know who I am, just like I know who you are.
For those who don't:
Paul Sacramento
Former Canadian Army peace keeper
3rd dan ITF TKD
2nd Dan Kyokushin
Shodan Kodokan Judo
Former amat. and semi-pro boxer
Former MT kick boxer
Kali
In regards to CMA-
Hung gar
Wing Chun
JKD
Chen Taijiquan


And you, sweet little cupcake?
Who are you? allow the public to see what I already know.

[sanjuro_ronin]

As for Terry.
I don't understand you concerns about John's "lineage".
Skill trumps "pedigree" any day of the year, but for those that value such things, fine.

I asked John the Hung Ga and SPM background way back when, AFTER I got to know that man, and he told me.
As some of you may know, I was an admin back in the day on Bullshido and yes, they/we did investigate John's claims.
Asia investigated John's military background - 100% correct.
John's MA background was also investigated and all checked out.

As for Steve Richards, the same was indeed done.
All was confirmed correct.

Since Bullshido was brought to "critique" John and Rudy and everyone seemed "ok" with that, then I guess that fact that BS investigated John and Steve and all checked out, then that should be "ok" too, right?

Again, as for Terry, if he didn't answer your request its because you are an a-hole and a-holes don't get much consideration, from anyone.

If you feel John is a fraud, you know where he is, put the old **** in his place.
How dare that old saggy **** try to fraud people !!

I nominate Terry to go and kick his ass in the spirit of a good ol Gong Sau, Wong Fei Hung would be proud !

[Lama Pai Sifu]

1.WHO IS JACK SPRINGER'S HUNG GAR TEACHER AND WHAT IS HIS LINEAGE?

2.WHO IS JACK SPRINGER'S SOUTHERN MANTIS TEACHER, AND WHAT LINEAGE?



I think by now, the rest of us would like to have these questions answered. There are obviously many fans of JFS on this forum, why not squash all this BS and just answer these two questions? You'd save us all a lot of reading...

I'm curious as to the answers, especially since it's been 9 pages and everyone DOES SEEM to be avoiding questions :confused: :confused: :confused:

I would think that if he is all on the up and up, this discussion would have been ended before it even reached this board.

Let's assume that the original guys asking the questions, are indeed trolls. I am now asking, me, personally - who is JFS's teachers? This is a legitimate question from a professional martial arts instructor (me!).

You may PM me with the info if you like, or better yet, post it here and end this thread.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I think by now, the rest of us would like to have these questions answered. There are obviously many fans of JFS on this forum, why not squash all this BS and just answer these two questions? You'd save us all a lot of reading...

I'm curious as to the answers, especially since it's been 9 pages and everyone DOES SEEM to be avoiding questions :confused: :confused: :confused:

I would think that if he is all on the up and up, this discussion would have been ended before it even reached this board.

Let's assume that the original guys asking the questions, are indeed trolls. I am now asking, me, personally - who is JFS's teachers? This is a legitimate question from a professional martial arts instructor (me!).

You may PM me with the info if you like, or better yet, post it here and end this thread.

I don't understand why you don't just ask the man.
Email him or PM him on the many links to the truthmartialarts website and ask him.
Tell him your name, your background and ask him.
I don't see why that is so confusing.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

I don't understand why you don't just ask the man.
Email him or PM him on the many links to the truthmartialarts website and ask him.
Tell him your name, your background and ask him.
I don't see why that is so confusing.


I don't know him, and frankly, I wasn't willing to go through that much effort to find out. I just assumed since he has friends here, that someone could shed some light on this subject and put a *'final' end to this bickering.




* "Final" end, as uposed to the 'regular' end, that is usually precipitated with a zombie-like re-birth of a particular thread.

[omarthefish]

You must have just scimmed the thread then because I posted links already, more than once and at least one other poster went and just put the info in his post.

Nobodies telling him NOW because we've all seen this wierdness before where he asks, we answer, he says WHY WON'T ANYBODY TELL ME??? and on it goes. The information is out there EVEN ON THIS THREAD.

Been posted already, numerous times.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Could you just post it, not a link, just a post on this thread please??

I appreciate it.

MP

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Yeah, I'd like to see that too.

When I went to the link to that site, I could not find anything on his lineage at all.

Also, the accusers here seem to be saying that he did learn from certian people, but it was just video. Due to that, I think it would satisfy some curiosity if someone posted lineage with time trained in person.

If I could list all the people I have exchanged video with, or had short contacts with, I would have a very impressive pedigree myself, including one of the top traditional Shaolin Monks...but I just don't consider a one time meeting, or video exchanges worthy of claiming a place in the line.

So I think it is important to distinguish real hours training under someone, from short meetings, seminars and video.

Only real hours training under someone counts.

[Black Jack II]

The deal about that Bullshido thread was the problem he seemed to be having putting info about his grappling background. I think from there it went downhill fast.

Is Bullshido a bunch of mma nuthuggers, that is your call not mine, I think the site has showcased a lot of very funny frauds and given out some really good info on con artists, so when its good its very good at what it does but when its bad its very bad but still funny.;)

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

I think Bullshido was a good "Concept" at one time, but it quickly turned into a lynching of anything traditional pretty soon after it's inception.

I still have a profile there, but rarely if ever, do I go there and visit that site anymore.