Sparring CLF Style

[nospam]

how many of you use long arm techniques or is the preference for more straight punches? i prolly don't use too many long arm techniques but do incorporate sau choi a lot and often bridge with a gwa.

one of the reasons I end up NOT using swinging arms or long arm techniques too often is when fighting (sparring) I am in close and stuck to you like glue as we reverse-engineer why you decided to gong sau with me in the first place :cool:

how about you?

[CLFNole]

We have always used alot of sow choys, chin si/pek choys and long arm techniques. The problem more often than not is when you get to a tournament and use a sow choy then the ref says you are using wild techniques and will DQ you so people tend to revert to using straight punches.

There are too many issues in tournament fighting that almost make it too difficult to actually show your style correctly. You have gloves on so you can't really use a chuen la or even use a chop choy the way it is meant to be used.

[hskwarrior]

i know what your speaking about. in our school we like to kwa choy in the direction of a pek choy. judges always say we need to use the side back hand.
i told my student all i wanted him to do was land double kwa choys on him, and from the get go my student sidesteps the kick and lands right on his nose dropping him out the ring. got a warning for that one.:rolleyes:

i love the upper cuts, chop choys, and sow choys. but i prefer the mid range, but our elephant is great for up close and personal stuff.

the thing is, not everyone knows how and when to sow choy. also i like biu jongs. im big and like to come crashing in and out.

but, i love to teach defense. in my opinion, its tough to hit someone who won't let you hit him. for example, the vid clip on the shaolin monk and the karate guy. the monks defense was great, and his offense was on the money too. he was on the guy like glue.

i don't see defense too much in fighting these days. both sides are too busy on offense and only clash and getting there first.

[hskwarrior]

the chop choys can be done in a solid fist, and should be ok when wearing gloves. not all are in the panther fist shape, right?

sometimes i think a solid fist is more effective for a chop choy. for one, lesser risk of injury.

[nospam]

Yes, tournament sparring is limited. What sort of sparring do you do in kwoon?

I saw the monk video - it was interesting to watch. I'm not sure what the monk may have had in mind but he seemed to be limited on aggression or taking the fight. He slapped the kicks away nicely but didn't follow-up immediately on many of the exchanges so to my eye, his offense was...how do they say nowadays...meh!

In terms of limitations in tournament sparring, guess that's just another challenge in how we might continue to utilise our respective styles.

I know I always like to work rarely used techniques from the forms into my sparring. I just never really got into long arm techniques but had started teaching their application more as time moved on.

There was one Youtube vid on some feller using long arm technique - not CLF though - it was a great video on effective application. This person's opponent was at the right distance for very good use of long arm moves and dare I say not many know or have the moxey to poke a stick in the middle of that spinning wheel! ;)

[hskwarrior]

personally,

i think the monk knew he had him, and only gave back what was given.

the monk could have distroyed him. but, he's a monk. no fear at all. steady all the way through.

[bigdoing]

Good question...

...I think for example using sow choy, Im not really thinking of it as a long arm technique, im trying to tying to hit somebodys head or neck with my inner forarm.

maybee using gwa to enter is long arm, but by the time your plam or fist come in with charp the you dont have to be long armed at all...you could / should be right in on the person with some follow ups....


we use a lot of elbows, i mean ng lu ma is allmost all elbows...

i really think the long arm is mainly for understanding power generation at least thats the way I look at it....im not that great either so my opinion is just that.

peace
bryan.

[Buk&Hung Sing]

Get the JKD gloves, they'll work easier. the actual Leopard fist doesn't havethe thumb pinned against the index finger, like the chop choy or the chun un choy, FYI.

[TenTigers]

in the Chinese tournaments we attend-Wong Fei-Hung,Wong's, SiJao Crayton's,etc, we have been able to throw gwa,sow,charp,kup,etc and not get penalized if they are thrown with control. We've even thrown fei charp-choy-so to all you Buk-Sing guys-go for it! The judges are more prone to "let'em go at it"so long as they are done without recklessness, and malicious intent. Most judges have been around long enough to realize that, one-there is not much difference between a ridgehand (verticle or horizontal) and kup, and sow. And two-it's refreshing to see CMA guys use CMA technique. Go for it.

[Beginner]

personally,

i think the monk knew he had him, and only gave back what was given.

the monk could have distroyed him. but, he's a monk. no fear at all. steady all the way through.


I agreed absolutely, cos maybe he is a monk, he want to keep this friendship. He just want to prove a point. Many times he could have just followup after the defense. He just didn't until the last with his offensive. My personal experience was sometimes I was sparring with friends, when I gained some advantage using techniques which frustrated them, they just go boom hard in my chest. I copped tat & have to stopped the session cos I hate to lose their goodwill by returning tat pain.

[nospam]

Yes, I am the first to say 'long arm' techniques are executed up close and personal - it's the only way to fight as far as I am concerned: it is the way we fight in my familia.

Nonetheless, I still don't use swinging arms that much and the reason being is in Bak Hsing (perhaps for you other CLF as well) we overwhelm our opponents. IOn doing so, we are usually always half-arm length away and chasing. Oh we do throw in the odd swinging arm move depending on the interaction but I've always experienced straight punch or tsop choi to be penetratingly expedient.

I have naturally kup choi'd and even once disoriented my sparring classmate with same, but swinging arm techniques rarely played much of a factor. I would think other CLF players would use swingign arm techniques more as CLF is characterised by same. Know what I mean?

[hskwarrior]

u may be the first to openly say it, but i also follow the same thoughts on long arm techniques. at a glance they're long. but in reality, i also use them up close and finish its long arm path. but the long arm stuff has to be executed on time, and can actually inhibit you if done wrong.

in our lineage we practice double kwa choys. not your typical type, but the direction of a cup choy. it's real sneakie. and chop choys are always good.

but i will continue on in my quest, too much offense and not enough defense.

[hskwarrior]

no disrespect intended for anyone clf practitioners, but this is one sorry clip. not sure whose from china and who's not. but to see that guy run away like that is shameful, and not representative of choy lee fut.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlakyqnGgg0

[Sow Choy]

i would bet money that person is not a monk...

anyone actually been to shaolin temple? I have, 2x...

prob nothing more than a student at one of the over 1,000 schools that surround the temple... just because they are chinese and have a robe on doesnt mean they are a monk... :P

[nospam]

Hmmm...no disrespect either, but that was like trying to catch a squeeling, slicked down pig.

Yes, we also drill mad defensive skills :D I am some what of a perfectionist when it comes to guarding my space. Not saying I don't get hit, I just don't like getting hit with the alpha strike or the BAM! of the 3 move drill/technique. We all have a few 'fail safe' string o fmoves we like to employ because the usually work. It's no biggie if the fluff gets through cuz Bak Hsing is very much on the offensive - we teach no going back! Sideways in a side step, 45 degrees even better, but do not go back. There are a many variety of things a person can do to stop another's momentum, but if you are caught off guard the biggest thing one can do is have no fear! :eek: hahaha

Trying to rewire a person's fight or flight impulse isn't the easiest thing to do. But that's all part of the challenge. When our style fights, you immediately notice the (controlled) aggression. And no word of a lie or talking smack (a good 95% of the time), when our style fights, you also will immediately notice our opponent becoming over-whelmed, turning their body and RUN.

I don't mean this thread or my posts to sound egotistical, just sharing the philosophy (which is drilled every lesson) of what we do. I guess that 'thought' might come heavy in my writing as well. I truely just want to compare notes and hear others fighting experiences/practises etc. It's all good.

Speaking of Youtube clips, I watched this one (think he was billed as a TKD player) professional tournament fighter (he might have been French)..WOW..the guys kicks were amazing! Reminded me of swinging arm technique but with his legs. He developed amazing speed and whipping with the legs and was very nimble and..well..let's just say he would definitely be a...challenge. Most peeps that concentrate heavy on kicking are the worst transgressors of getting caught and turning tail quickly. In one of our tournaments we hosted, there is this one footage of a Korean stylist turning (jumping spinning kick) very effectively on his point to counter our fighter's attack. It was impressive, but he was 'static' in the air and our guy was on 2 feet charging in heavy so the upper hand remained his.

[Eddie]

you definatly not limited in san shou tournaments and can still do a sow choy or pek choy. Where you are limited is only with regards to the striking surface, but if you know how to throw a sow choy, you wouldnt have a problem with connecting it slightly differently.

Also there is definatly a difference between wild swinging (brawling) and throwing a well executed well focussed strike.

I've completed the IwUF San Shou Judges course and the rules allows for pretty much any type of fighting. Only thing is, the fighters probably dont practice it that way.

[hskwarrior]

now getting back to clf sparring.........

personally i teach a lot of defense first. its my goal to have my students balanced both offensively and defensively. it's a natural human reaction to protect oneself and all i'm trying to do is enhance that natural reflex.

but, i try not to have my students use conventional punching like boxing, but encourage them to only use the strikes within our system. in one of our recent sparring sessions we've incorporated a lion dance move with avoiding a shoot. no, its not the end all situation, but is one way to get out of the way of someone shooting in on you. we happened by accident to discover that his move can also be used as reverse flying knees. connected right under my students chin and could have been a knock out blow.


but if we do used conventional strikes its usually to set something up.

[nospam]

..speaking of discoveries, I recall one time I was watching this Chinese gung fu flick and one fight scene this guy leaped or hopped on the thighs of his opponent then attacked from that position. Well, the move was so fantastical I naturally had to try it! Ya know what..it worked.

I was sparring in kwoon and faked a few attacks to see how my sparring partner would react, amd as he wasn't overly aggressive, I saw my opportunity to try my monkey(??) attack. I faked with a high move to the head then leaped right foot followed bu left foot onto his thighs, grabbed either side of his neck and successfully attacked his head in a monkey like fashion.

And People say many movements/techniques in forms are antiquated or 'fluff' or useless- ha! I think most peeps just forgot how to use it or never learned how in the first place.

There are many moves in Sup Ji Ch'uan that I've yet to work into practical application (beauty of that pattern) but have some ideas. Also I am getting a better feel for when to use certain long arm techniques inside close. My sifu uses a certain long arm technique (perhaps a variation on biu sau) in sai ping ma that is executed in close and throws your opponent off balance then is usually followed up with either kup or sau choi. It's a beautiful thing that I never did but interestingly enough have come to appreciate and understand a little more.

Until next time..

[hskwarrior]

yeah we do the same thing with what you called biu sau we say biu sei. anyways, it gets even better when you can get you thigh right under his and launch it sending him flying.

alot of people neglect clf's leg fighting stuff, like the horses.

but hey........

[nospam]

ya I agree but I have found I can't get close enough cuz when I take it to them they turn tail and run. thankfully we have our running horse! i'll also throw in a nice crescent kick to the floating ribs for good measure depending how fast the run away :eek:

nospam
:cool: