CMA and axe fighting

[RonH]

Heyo, I'm trying to find out info about this. So far, the only form I've been able to find out about is called "Taiji Praying Mantis Splitting the Mountain Axe" form. Does anyone know if this is the only form that's ever been around, 'cause it doesn't seem like this would be the only one. Maybe I'm not looking hard enough, but I can't seem to find anything else about it.

Even if there isn't a specific form for most flavors of CMA for it, the placement of the cutting edge of either single or double handed fighting axes would neccesitate a fighting form similar to knife fighting (either ice pick held or not) with a little more range. It also makes me think of kama fighting, which again would require some similarity to knife fighting, while holding it the ice pick way.

Thanks in advance.

[qiphlow]

not sure why this is in the internal section--AFAIK, taiji preying mantis is not related to taijiquan, but please tell me if i'm mistaken. on to your original question, i know choy li fut has an axe form--double axes is one that i know of, there may be more. ask in the main kung fu forum, or the southern forum--you may get a better answer.

[RonH]

I haven't heard of it related to it either. And thanks.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Look for references to the Black Whirlwind Li Kwei....

There's plenty of double axe forms, mostly based on his legend. Some are wushu, some are traditional.

But in the end, an axe is an axe. A wushu guy could cut off your leg with an axe.

It isn't the wushu. It's the axe.

[GeneChing]

...but not at all uncommon inside China.

I published Black Whirlwind Axes: The Legend of Li Kwei way back in our Outlaws of the Marsh special (2002 July/August (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=234)). It was more of an overview of th Li Kwei legend and its connection to axe forms.

Our forum sponsor MartialArtsMart actually sells two pairs of axes: The wushu pair (http://www.martialartsmart.net/45-75wu.html), which is hollow, and the Dragon Well pair (http://www.martialartsmart.net/45-75cs.html), which are freakin' wrist breakers. I'd love to see someone manage a form with the Dragon Well pair. Neither are great sellers in America just because axes aren't commonly practiced out here. That's too bad really, since the axe has a lot of history. And there's nothing like a good battle axe. MartialArtsMart also carries a long stick axe (http://www.martialartsmart.net/45-87wu.html) (also a hollow wushu version). This is very rarely practiced, but often seen in weapon racks guarding temples.

[Ray Pina]

Don't know if your search is limited to Chinese, but if not, you might want to research the Berserkers as well..... they are famous for taking magic mushrooms and invading Europe with the ax as their weapon of choice.

Pirates are also known for using axes, even though hollywood has played up the sword. An axe can open barrels, quickly undo ropes and fu(k someone up.

[ngokfei]

Very rare both inside and outside China. Actually what I'm trying to say "authentic" forms. Over the past 10 years schools have created forms for this weapon.

Mostly today I see them practiced in southern styles (Bak Mei, Lama, ChoyLifut, Hung Gar (village), etc.)

For Northern check out Taijimantis, Yue Jia Quan,

For the long axe I've only seen it in of all things Internal Schools (xing yi and Zhao Bao Taiji) but I'm sure it exists elsewhere (no vcd yet:D )

I've picked up the Lama and Yue Jia version. Actually the Yue Jia Double Axe is almost identical to its double melon form.

[RonH]

I was initially looking at just chinese forms, but I'm thinking of just expanding it at this point.

I had thought before you could "steal" a form for a staff and use it with a long axe and take a sword form and put a short axe in its place and you wouldn't have to modify them too much for the different weapon.

I saw those hand axes in my search and I sooo want them. I can't get them yet because I just don't have the time to work with them and as soon as they got here, I'd wanna open those bad boys up and the weight/density isn't a problem either. At where I work, my department is moving to a different building after we finish all the archiving of old studies no one will ever request, but it's still kept for a while before they're destroyed and those boxes get into the 30-40 pounders range because we're really packing the papers in and I'm tossing them around with ease regularly.

I imagine the pirate form involves some beer, some fish and a rope to swing from, so you can chop through people. :'P

[WinterPalm]

In a movie I am currently making we made up an axe set that utilizes a standard lumberjack axe. I will host video this week...

[ngokfei]

RonH

Many people do just that, but it really shows how little the performer knows of the actual weapon. While you will be able to get the general hit and cut there are alot of specialy actions that are signature moves of these weapons.

Ie: double axes make use of alot of trapping, hooking and deflecting. It also depends on the actual design of the axe head as well.

Am seeing alot of "sport type schools" making up forms/katas for the exotic chinese weapons and performing them in the Open Tournament circuit.

Looks very exciting but so does the NEW Contemporary Wushu.

[RonH]

RonH

Many people do just that, but it really shows how little the performer knows of the actual weapon. While you will be able to get the general hit and cut there are alot of specialy actions that are signature moves of these weapons.

I had the same thoughts. That's why I've been looking for specific forms.

[hskwarrior]

In The Lau Bun Lineage We Practice And Teach The Double Axes Form. The Only Other School Of Clf That Does So Was Malaysia.

Is There Any Other Clf Schools Out There Teaching Double Hatchets?

If So, I Never See This Performed.

[CLFNole]

I remember asking Lee Koon Hung about this and he said we had a set. He never taught it in the US and I don't think he really taught it at all. He said it was generally similar to the mellon hammers though.

[hskwarrior]

True, But They Can Also Be Exchanged With The Butterfly Knive As Well.

Sifu Dino Was Amazing With His Double Hatchets......im Glad I Have His Performance On Film.

[The Xia]

Do you mean double axe forms from Choy Lay Fut only or double axe forms from any style?

[hskwarrior]

Meaning Clf.

I Know Their All Going To Look Different.....but I Would Love To See Other Clf Double Hatchets.

Even If They Were Subtituted From Another Weapon........still Cool To Watch.

[hskwarrior]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8FgFpjcLWc


I FOUND THIS ON YOUTUBE.......KINDA COOL BUT WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT.

[The Xia]

Is the set you do called Seun Fung Seung Fu?

[The Xia]

http://www.plumblossom.net/ChoyLiFut/formslist.html
"Hurricane Double Axes (Seun Fung Seung Fu) 旋風双斧"

[hskwarrior]

We've Always Called It The Double Hatchet........but The One You Mentioned Is Chan Family.

In One Of My Video's I Think You Can See My Sifu Doing The Double Axes.

[The Xia]

We've Always Called It The Double Hatchet........but The One You Mentioned Is Chan Family.
Well there ya go! Another school's double axe set! :D

In One Of My Video's I Think You Can See My Sifu Doing The Double Axes.
Yeah, I remember watching it. I liked all of of the demos I’ve seen from your sifu but it was cool to see how his Choy Lay Fut manifested itself in the double axes. I don't remember which video it's on though.

[The Xia]

ttt..........

[dragon323]

Hello

An article about choy li fut doubles axes:

http://www.tangoshaolin.com/SHAOLIN/Articulos/hachas.htm

[hskwarrior]

this is one of my video's that demo's my sifu doing the double hatchets

(around 1:24 on the video u can see it)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=yTSzokEtJS0

[The Xia]

this is one of my video's that demo's my sifu doing the double hatchets

(around 1:24 on the video u can see it)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=yTSzokEtJS0
How long ago was that footage filmed?

[hskwarrior]

i believe its from the 80's.

it was filmed in a mall in oakland,cali.

[GeneChing]

Read CHOP! CHOP! - Kung fu's Deadly Fighting Axes (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=994) by Jason William McNeil

[Olaf]

All the clips removed :(

[hskwarrior]

This is one Double Ax form of the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BbWHwDIGGg

Here is another one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWut0_t3OBs&feature=channel_video_title

[wolf3001]

One of my favorite axes would be the Tomahawk and there are some books and things about fighting with the weapon in combination with a knife. There is also a few modernized military versions based on ones used during Vietnam. The Tomahawk is a very dangerous weapon and similar to many hand axes used in Europe by groups such as the Viking warriors and Franks look up the Francisca. Axes are great survival tools that can double as devastating weapons. I went at a guy in class with a training knife and a Tomahawk trainer using my Wing Chun the axe works good to trap the wrists, arms, legs and hook around the back of the neck.

[Featherstone]

I was working on a double dove axe form until I injured my shoulder. **** things are heavy, none of that hollow stuff in our school! Couple weeks hopefully I will be able to take it back up and finish it. See if I can video it for y'all, you can watch the fat man move! :)

[brothernumber9]

THe line of Hung Fut I study has both long double axe and short double axe forms (length of the poles/handles). My sifu said he derived a form combining the two to something in-between with a handle of length a little longer than the short axes, but I have never seen any of the forms nor know any of my classmates that have learned any.

[bawang]

heavy weapons dont have a lot of forms. they dont have complicated techniques. even if there is a form its mostly flower.

[TenTigers]

heavy weapons dont have a lot of forms. they dont have complicated techniques. even if there is a form its mostly flower.
good point. Heavy long weapons are a variation of the staff.
"But there is a big blade on one end.."
fine..turn it this way when you cut..
"This one is a trident.."
okay, twirl it a little...
'This has a crescent shaped blade and a bell shaped one on the other end.."
"yeah, ok..stab, and..ok, stab."






it's all the same sh1t.... :rolleyes:

[TenTigers]

then the CLF guy comes in..
"this one has a chandelier on the end.."

[jdhowland]

then the CLF guy comes in..
"this one has a chandelier on the end.."

This made me laugh.

[hskwarrior]

Choy lee Fut wasn't the only one designing exotic weapons :D

http://djestorefixtures.com/images/ChromeHatRack.jpg

http://www.coathatracks.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/coat-hat-racks-1.jpg

[TaichiMantis]

Choy lee Fut wasn't the only one designing exotic weapons :D

http://djestorefixtures.com/images/ChromeHatRack.jpg

http://www.coathatracks.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/coat-hat-racks-1.jpg

That's the beauty of Jackie Chan. He always used weapons that were handy at the time...I could see him using either one.;)