The Law In Regards To Martial Arts

[hskwarrior]

In Our School Under Sifu Salvatera.....we've Had Discussions About What As Martial Artists Can We Get Away With In The Streets During A Real Life Confrontation-in Regards To The Law.

First And Foremost........as M-a People, During A Real Threat We're Allowed To Use Reasonable Force To Stop Any Threat. This Means If Someone Came After You With A Knife.....by Law You Can Break That Persons Leg To Stop That Threat.

But, If You Were To Break His Leg, Arm, And Pinky Toe......you Would Be Using Excessive Force, And In Trouble With The Law.

Some Of My Classmates Are In Law Enforcement, And Have Told Me That Literally They Are Sooooo Limited In What They Can Use To Defend Themselves.

I've Also Heard That If Witnesses Saw You Lock Down And Use Your Martial Arts And Reported That To The Police You Can Go To Jail.

What I Would Like To Know Is,.......and If You Teachers Don't You Should Find Out.......what Are The Laws In Your States?

Off Topic But For The Point Of Convo...........in Some States Its Against To Law To Hit It Doggie Style, Use Battery Operated Boyfriends.......being Orally Gifted And So Forth........so What Are The Laws Regarding The Use Of Force In Real Life Situations In Your State?

[David Jamieson]

we have the law of reasonable force and justifiable homicide here in canada.

which means that if someone is a serious enough threat you can kill them.

you will be charged and there will be a burden of proof upon you, but in practiec and in theory the law stands in canada.

it has been used. there was a prominent case were a woman who was suffering abuse at the hands of some boyfriend was forced to blow his head off with a shotgun. she walked under the justifianble homicide law here.

that was 20 years ago, i don't know how many similar cases have gone through our court system since. I would imagine there is some parity with US laws in this regard.

[NJM]

You capitalized every word.

[hskwarrior]

no, every letter was, the system did that to ever word:D

[CLFLPstudent]

no, every letter was, the system did that to ever word:D

Your computer does that? I was going to ask you about that - it seemed like it would take you forever to type like that :p

-David

[monkeyking168]

here are some general references to the law & using martial arts for self defense. they are pretty interesting.
http://www.martialartcentral.com/M.a.c/Articles/11.htm
http://www.fmkkarateschool.com/fmk/articles/legal_ramifications.htm

this one is pretty lengthly & hard to read but interesting:
http://www.loyola.edu/maru/Martial%20Art%20Law.html

this one is from the same website regarding the outdated strange & unusual laws in the united states:
http://www.loyola.edu/maru/laws.html

cheers,
mk... :)

[hskwarrior]

interesting stuff man,

tanks


hsk

[WinterPalm]

The way law enforcement conduct themselves and the way citizens conduct themselves are two very different perspectives. Law enforcement have the public eye on them and are given a large amount of power over citizens, with that comes responsibility. Although it may be the same for a knife welding maniac to lunge at a cop or a citizen, the reactions have to be different, however wrong that may seem.

I have been mugged when I was a teenager and beaten with a metal bar while a friend next to me took a knife through the back and into the lung. If it ever happens again I will do my best to defend myself and will not think twice about the consequences, when I am safe that is when I'll think.

Do you guys actually think that if a witness sees someone pull out a knife and start to mug someone that they will rat on you if you defend yourself?

Anderson Cooper last night (no I don't watch CNN or Anderson Cooper but stopped briefly and the topic was interesting), anyway, he was talking about people witnessing violence and not stepping in. They were advocating intervetion...so I do not think that severely hurting a violent person is going to get you into much trouble legally. Besides, in Canada people like Bernardo's girl get off quite sweet! It's more a matter of citizens taking action into their own hands and dealing with criminals.

[hskwarrior]

actually it can.

since my classmates are law enforcement, we were told that if an eye witness said "wow, that guy was karate kid. he did this, and he did that" and the martial artis still faced charges for protecting himself.

if messed up, but the case.

[WinterPalm]

I suppose being Canadian can be a different story but if I'm ever attacked I will do what I have to, to survive. I have no desire to seriously hurt anyone, but if it is me or someone I love or them, I'll do my darndest to make sure it's them.

To me I see martial arts as another one of those elements within the population that allows citizens to exercise some right over the usage of violence against them. Governments do not like people who take matters into their own hands. In my Country it is very hard to get a gun if you go through the proper channels, but a criminal can get one very easily. A pacified and docile population is the worst thing a country can turn into...that is why such violence can be exercised on people and others watch without intervening.

The law is the law, most of us abide by it and live our lives peacefully...I respect the law and the art I've been taught to not instigate violence, but the art is designed for one thing, one purpose, and I'll take that three month maximum sentence over being dead.

Also, I think the idea of martial artists defending themselves and being put in prison is a myth. I've read countless stories in the press about people using their arts to defend themselves, and sometimes seriously hurting the attacker. Does anyone have a documented case?

[Ben Gash]

Eye witnesses are notoriously unreliable.

[Shadow Skill]

I got this from criminal lawers.com
A: The defense of “self defense” is what’s called an “affirmative defense.” The prosecution must disprove self-defense beyond a reasonable doubt.
While the law as to self-defense may vary from state to state, generally a person is justified in using physical force when it’s necessary to defend himself or a third person from what he reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of unlawful physical force by the other person.

How much force can you exert in self-defense? The degree of force you reasonably believe to be necessary to defend yourself or another person from an unlawful use of force.

Can you ever respond to an attack or threat of an attack by using deadly force? Deadly physical force may be used only if you reasonably believe a lesser degree of force is inadequate, and you have a reasonable belief that you or another person is in imminent danger of being killed or of sustaining great bodily injury.

You aren’t justified in using physical force if you provoke the use of unlawful physical force by another person. And you can’t justify your use of physical force if you’re the initial aggressor, unless you’ve communicated your withdrawal from the encounter and the other person continues using unlawful physical force. Also, physical force isn’t justified where it’s the result of an unauthorized combat by agreement.

Some states have “make my day” laws which allow a person to use deadly physical force against an intruder they believe has unlawfully entered their home with the intent to commit a crime once inside. These laws assume that citizens have a right to expect absolute safety within their homes.

I haven't fond spacific info for my state yet

[fawlung]

In our state, Kentucky... the laws are fairly similar as stated above. In regards to non-deadly threats, you can exert that force which was exerted against you or a third party... meaning if someone hits you, you can hit them back.

If it is a deadly threat, you can respond with deadly force... a knife is considered a deadly threat. If someone wields a knife against you in a malicious manner, verbalizes the intent or initiates an attack, you have the right to respond with deadly force...

I think where martial artists get a bad rap is once the initial threat has subsided, a martial artist, given the adrenal stress factor, may not have a tendency to stop and will over do it. Once the threat is gone and the subject has stopped their deadly intent, you have to stop the deadly force or you will face charges.

Be prepared however, because you are a martial artist and in today's sue happy society you can just about count on some type of charge or suit.... It's always a good idea to study your local laws, understand how to speak properly when talking to authorities and incorporate some of these methods into your training.

[WinterPalm]

Well if it ever happened, and I hope it doesn't, I'd just get Trollfighter...I mean knifefighter to represent me and he could state that kung fu doesn't really work!:eek: :D