Stick Fighting

[Oso]

to get it clear up front:

Stick Fighting (AMA): sparring done with short sticks allowing punching, kicking, joint locking, throwing and grappling.

basically, like the DB's but it will be a long time, if ever, that I let it go to full contact in my school...too much liability. But, I think it can be done w/ enough protective gear to go hard enough for it to be realistic training.

as students get better, mainly in being able to control the action so no major injuries are incured, we add staves, training knives and swords.



anyone else doing anything like this?

[AmanuJRY]

Yes.

My group has faded, but for the last five or so years we have been sparring with 'practice' sticks (sch. 40 electrical pvc with pipe insulation foam and black tape ;) ). Using street hockey helmets and hockey gloves, elbow and knee pads optional.

Very fun, very educational.:cool:

[Oso]

did you not find that the sch 40 pvc would break?

we tried that at my old school a while back. a hard enough hit would shatter the pipe and leave a very sharp edge to it. rattan w/ the foam insulation works just as well and I've hypothisized that sch. 80 wouldn't shatter but is also denser and might be too heavy hitting for daily practice.

[PangQuan]

man i wish i had a set place to do stuff like this.

a while back a had a group of guys who would get together with wooden weapons and spar around.

dao, jian, boken, spear, staff, naginata, tonfa, sai (metal) and some europian straight swords.

LOTS of fun.

actually a friend of mine and i (his designs) had started to produce a set of armor fassioned off of old Samurai designs, modified for modern use, and build out of recycled pickle barrels. heated with a heat gun, shaped and cooled. tied the plates together with parachute cord.

SUPER RAD STUFF. we ened up only busting out gauntlets and shoulder armor, we needed to redo the chest armor as we used kozain design and decided that sucked for blunt impact and changed our minds to plate.

The gauntlets turned out super sick though. done with plate, reinforced with 1 inch wide 1/4 in thick shaped metal bars. FULL RANGE OF MOTION!!

litterally you can take a base ball bat to the for arm with out any damage.

its been about a couple years. we both moved, he got a kid.........ya i wish we still had that stuff going, he wanted to actually get it really legit and start selling the armor because the stuff worked.

but while it was going we used to go at it pretty heavy. and i was sure glad when we got those gauntlets out....busted fingers suck.

[AmanuJRY]

did you not find that the sch 40 pvc would break?

we tried that at my old school a while back. a hard enough hit would shatter the pipe and leave a very sharp edge to it. rattan w/ the foam insulation works just as well and I've hypothisized that sch. 80 wouldn't shatter but is also denser and might be too heavy hitting for daily practice.

Occasionally, sch 40 would break, the pad and tape would prevent pieces from flying, and of course we would not continue to use them.

Being an electrician, scrap pieces come cheap so no big deal.:cool:

Sch. 80 is heavier to swing, for sure. The best medium I found for weight vs. strength is the orange plastic fire rated sprinkler pipe. Harder to come by, but stronger and lighter than sch 40. The sticks I made with that pipe have lasted me three years and running.;)

[Oso]

ya, i've been a plumber and maintenance tech for a long time now...never pay for pvc...or duct tape, or elec tape :D


i'd say the orange pipe is probably nylon. that would be cool.

[yenhoi]

My teacher just got a set of rubber/padded sticks that are the best Id ever seen. He can bend them in half without breaking. Feels like some sort of metal inside. Ill have to find out the brand.

We do cane stick and knife. Sometimes someones got a staff to play around with. Have met a couple guys over the last few years that can use a staff.

Injuries are injuries. Not a lot can be done after a certain point except for good training and smart training partners.

:eek:

[AmanuJRY]

I don't think I like the idea of sticks that bend that much.:(

PVC bends a little, but not that much. Plus, I like feeling a little impact to know when I get hit...stick wealts don't bug me.:D

[Oso]

I don't like bendy stuff either.

i'll be sticking w/ naked rattan for now and maybe put some pipe insulation on them at some point.

[yenhoi]

The bendy ones are for grappling with mainly. Plus Im sure they make a killing at the pro shop, being new and all.

:eek:

[Oso]

yea, pro shop matters for sure.

when you get a name, let me know. thanks.

Injuries are injuries. Not a lot can be done after a certain point except for good training and smart training partners.

this is so true. I've got some gung ho guys in the school now and they like to fight but they have less than average control and so everyone of them is getting banged up pretty good.




i would think bendy would not be good for grappling as you would not be able to get as good a leverage...but I see that would definitely limit injuries.

[yenhoi]

stick grappling day-to-day with rattan sticks gets very hard on the neck very quick.

everything else, pretty much the same.

:eek:

[Oso]

oh, yea...i guess for normals the neck is pretty weak....

[neverfold]

Sorry for a bit of topic grave-digging, but I'm wondering if any of you know about any sources where one could learn and self study Kung Fu Tonfa. I'm interested in the longer version of the tonfa. You see Gordon Liu use it in the movie Heroes from the East against his wife. It seems to have the length of the traditional chinese crutch but the shape of a tonfa.

So far the longest I've found is the American nightstick at 24", though after looking over the size used in the movie it would need to be about 30-32". Does anyone know where I could buy one like this or am I left only with the option of making one myself?

Thanks,

Josepherd

[Oso]

i heard that in Heroes of the East 2 that there was an entire segment teaching the mostest bestest form of the chinese tonfa because Lui's wife had to get revenge on her husband and so found the teacher of the teacher that taught Lui's the form but he was dead so got the directer of that chinese kung fu ghost movie to create a scene where she was able to resurrect him for just long enough to learn the form.

it's pretty cool. i would watch it.

[xcakid]

In my arnis days we actually sparred with just a headgear w/ face cage and those kenpo finger glove. We use rubber and foam wrapped rattan sticks. Aside from lots of bruising and the occasional sprained wrist ankle it was not bad injury-wise.

[PlumDragon]

The below is a clip of me training with my teachers from a trip to the Philippines in March 2009. It isnt "stick fighting" per se, but all attacks are totally random and with intent to hit the target. Sometimes the strikes are soft and sometimes they are very hard, but its more intense than 95% of the sparring/fighting Ive done in other systems Ive trained over the years:

http://www.youtube.com/user/plumdragon#p/a/u/0/_szydTI7IZc

This is the only way we train--no drills or patterns, no solo work, just high-intensity stick work, always intense enough that you are well out of your comfort zone. Some people wear pads on their elbows and hands. I prefer to not wear that protective gear, and after a while you dont even notice the strikes that hit...

[uki]

I don’t want to offend any one bye saying this. If you gear up in head gear, pads and wrap your weapons to soften blow or even use soft rattan were is the realism in the applications and technique. It just turns in to two or more people slugging it out getting sloppy. From what I have seen maybe you could post a clip of crisp clean stick fighting I have yet to come across.

In kenpo we did the same as a previous post pvc wrapped in electrical tape and pads on. The above was my personal experience and what I have come across on vids.nice post... this is true - when people are padded up, they tend to lose focus. :)

[sanjuro_ronin]

The below is a clip of me training with my teachers from a trip to the Philippines in March 2009. It isnt "stick fighting" per se, but all attacks are totally random and with intent to hit the target. Sometimes the strikes are soft and sometimes they are very hard, but its more intense than 95% of the sparring/fighting Ive done in other systems Ive trained over the years:

http://www.youtube.com/user/plumdragon#p/a/u/0/_szydTI7IZc

This is the only way we train--no drills or patterns, no solo work, just high-intensity stick work, always intense enough that you are well out of your comfort zone. Some people wear pads on their elbows and hands. I prefer to not wear that protective gear, and after a while you dont even notice the strikes that hit...

Nice work dude.

[Dragonzbane76]

would really like to invest some time in the dog brothers stuff but not much around my area for that. Most of it's on the West coast. I saw one kinda close up in PA but still about 4 hours away.

[sanjuro_ronin]

would really like to invest some time in the dog brothers stuff but not much around my area for that. Most of it's on the West coast. I saw one kinda close up in PA but still about 4 hours away.

AH dude, gets some DVD's, there stuff is very east to learn from and get together with some guys and beta each other up.
It's that simple.

[Dragonzbane76]

:) well we beat each other up the way it is anyhow. Just not as much with weapons, which is what i'm interested in. if anyone ever hears of one (dog brothers) in the ohio, PA, MA area give me a heads up.

[PlumDragon]

Just posted another stick vid on youtube for those interested. First half is me training with one of my teachers, GM Bob Tabimina. Second half is me working with my students.

All training is 100% random. No patterns or drills, just react!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaLRe1dRbm0

[SnowDog]

PlumDragon,

Nice Vids, I really enjoyed them.

I like the random aspect of the drills. they have to make your reaction times really crisp.

Nice Work

[PlumDragon]

Thanks snowdog, glad you liked them!

The system is a reaction-based training rather than focusing on techniques; so yes, we make sure to install reactions and refine them very well before moving on to learning how to attack and finish the fight. That way, when we start having to make "decisions" about what to do on offense, the defense is already inherently built in in case something goes awry...

[Dale Dugas]

Josh,

Excellent vids!

good luck with your training!

[PlumDragon]

Dale,

Thanks Brother, Im glad you liked it! =)

Will be in touch before I leave for Manila...

[PlumDragon]

Just uploaded a new stick work video from training sessions at the beginning of June. Advanced reactionary agak, totally random and 100% unchoreographed, done real-time under pressure. Sorry, no "techniques". ;)

Enjoy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fv98_PxXaus

[GeneChing]

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[GeneChing]

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