unusual weapons

[jdhowland]

I thought it might be fun to start a new thread on unusual weapons and weapons systems to see what's out there. Are there any forum members who practice CLF's pipe and punk techniques? Miao dao? Double chopping knives?Anyone like to throw chopsticks? I'm particularly interested in weapons that have been used as "underground" survival tools in living memory. I don't know anyone who has actually used a sleeve dart but there are many hidden weapons that are known and practiced outside the standard curricula of open door schools.
Here are a few of my favorites: Iron hat brim--worn inside the liner of a fedora, sometimes sharpened. Offers some protection against a hatchet attack and can be used offensively when unsheathed from the hat.
Chinese pepper spray: in the bad old days of the 20th century in Guangdung (and elsewhere, perhaps) chili peppers were ground up and rolled into little "cigarettes". When approached by members of a rival "society" you reach into a shirt pocket, carefully bite off the end of a little paper tube and...don't inhale!
Golden coin belt: actually utilizes Ching era copper coins (metal galvanized washers work well in a pinch) sewn into an ordinary-looking cloth "yiu dai" sash. The techniques are the same as those used in many other flexible weapon systems. What is unique is the way the knot is tied so that it can be released with a single tug of one of the tails and the peculiar twist of the hips and body spin manouver used to unleash the weighted end of the sash.

[golden arhat]

i practise using walls doors and windows and the art of throwing ppl through them

[Mega-Foot]

I've been known to wreak havoc with a safety pin.

Kind of ironic.

[golden arhat]

I've been known to wreak havoc with a safety pin.

Kind of ironic.

LOL ur the best

[Ben Gash]

An IV drug user once stuck me with the safety pin they'd just cut themselves with. NOT a fun 24 hrs.:(

[jdhowland]

In that regard a pin could certainly qualify as a deadly weapon. As a corrections officer I have come across bodily fluids used in life threatening situations. Inmates who are hep C carriers sometimes like the idea of sharing their problems with others by smearing their own blood on razor blades hidden in strategic places. These may qualify as weapons, but are not systematic in the sense of a resource available to groups of people who actually train in its use.
Here's another example outside the field of Chinese arts: Chicana gang members have been known to use ring knives (generally used to cut box twine) sharpened on the outside edge to inflict serious wounds in planned attacks on rival females. No matter who wins, the victim will be scarred for life. If this occurs more than once it may be considered a weapon system used by an underground group to further personal and political aims.

[Mega-Foot]

I once spread some mildew in a rival dojo's basement. It's not quite a deadly weapon, but if you give it time....

Half of ninjitsu is patience.

[NJM]

Chinese pepper spray: in the bad old days of the 20th century in Guangdung (and elsewhere, perhaps) chili peppers were ground up and rolled into little "cigarettes". When approached by members of a rival "society" you reach into a shirt pocket, carfully bite off the end of a little paper tube and...don't inhale!

Any more info on this? I find it quite interesting.


As for hidden weapons, There is a bench set in Hung Ga or BSL. Uses a common little wooden bench.

[cjurakpt]

Are there any forum members who practice CLF's pipe and punk techniques? Miao dao? Double chopping knives?Anyone like to throw chopsticks? I'm particularly interested in weapons that have been used as "underground" survival tools in living memory. I don't know anyone who has actually used a sleeve dart but there are many hidden weapons that are known and practiced outside the standard curricula of open door schools.

Sifu Chan Tai Shan taught us a few miao do sets - nothing out of the ordinary in terms of what you might expect when using a long sharp sword with two hands, although a few unusual moves did come up; he also taught bowl / chopstick, crutches (like long tonfas), bench, emei daggers, and a broad sword / whip chain combo; he talked about sleeve darts, and also one that you wore on your back that fired when you bowed down in suplication in front of your target...

there was probably more, Mike P. or Ross would probably remember other stuff...

[jdhowland]

My only source for this information is from an anecdote told by my si-hing Harvey Tse about 25 or 30 years ago. I always assumed it came from his father's (my sifu's) gang experiences in China in the pre-communist years. I haven't found a willing victim to try this on but with a little practice a dry pepper spray can be ejected 15 feet or more. Warning: I cannot reccomend this as a practical method of self defense. In my professional calling I have used oleoresin capsicum and I have enjoyed the experience of having it sprayed directly into my eyes. This modern pepper spray is probably much stronger than anything available in China when Sifu was a lad. It's sometimes rated in the old Scoville Heat unit scale in the millions (the stuff I put on my eggs might be rated 400,000 SCU. Does it work? Sure. I experienced the required impaired eyesight and the "seven-foot dragon snots." But I doubt that a pepper cigarette would be useful against more than one opponent. Consider it a tactical aid to escape more difficult situations rather than a debilitating weapon.

[Mega-Foot]

I'm sure Sifu Parella could tell you of the dart technique that Grandmaster Sensei taught called the "Brown Kowtow", which was actually an add-on to the shoulderplate dart curapjt was talking about.

You lodge it firmly between the buttcheeks, so that when you bow, you kill the person directly behind you as it shoots from the rectum.

It has also been called the "Stinky Wonder from the Dark Down Under," but something is lost in the translation.

It was funny, but because of Grandmaster Sensei's accent, we kept thinking he was saying "Stevie Wonder from the Dark Down Under," and couldn't figure out why he was talking about blind people with an anal technique.

[Eddie]

CLF has that tv antenna thing.
Ive also heared about a shaolin DaMo Sandle / Slipper form. Cant remember where I heared abotu that tho.
HSKWarrior once spoke about coin throwing arts too

[Mano Mano]

I’ve trained with someone recently who used the unusual weapon of combined Indian curry & stale beer breath. Very affective kept me well out of striking range.

[laugarkuen]

A guy I sometimes train with has mentioned bouncers (I think) using a hot pie from the chippy. Simply take off the top of the pie when you expect trouble and apply to protagonists face.

[golden arhat]

the guy i train with called phil (professional criminal) has said that chips and gravy has time and again been an exceedingly useful weapon

[5Animals1Path]

A corrections officer I know walks around work with a hot cup of coffee whenever possible. Never drinks it though. ;)

[xcakid]

I thought it might be fun to start a new thread on unusual weapons and weapons systems to see what's out there. Are there any forum members who practice CLF's pipe and punk techniques? Miao dao? Double chopping knives?Anyone like to throw chopsticks?



I practice throwing clawed cats at people. :D

[GeneChing]

One of my favorite weird Chinese weapons are what I call "ducks on a stick". They are these double metal rods, topped with a metal duck that's shaped quite like a rubber bathtub duck. They are always practiced in pairs. I've seen several references and even a few vids, but I've yet to see them live.

A funky little resource on this, if you can still find a copy, is Ancient Chinese Hidden Weapons by Douglas H. Y. Hsieh. It's loaded with weird Chinese weapons.

[TenTigers]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=k4jiycLnMYc&mode=related&search=

[cjurakpt]

A funky little resource on this, if you can still find a copy, is Ancient Chinese Hidden Weapons by Douglas H. Y. Hsieh. It's loaded with weird Chinese weapons.

somewhere in my basement this book still exists - I know the duck ones you're talking about - hysterical; I also like the one that's the shape of a man's body and the paired one that's a fist holding a spike or a pen on the end of a stick

[TenTigers]

"I also like the one that's the shape of a man's body and the paired one that's a fist "

this is going to be an exercise in self-restraint....:D

must...not...post...

[cjurakpt]

oh, go ahead - I deserve it...:rolleyes:

[GeneChing]

Yes, I know the ones you speak of, cjurakpt. The fist-holding-spike is a variation of a fo shou (buddha hand). There are many Buddhist images that have many hands like the thousand-armed Kwan Yin. Typically each of these hands are holding a different tool, often weapons, but occasionally stuff like the spike. They are also often in different mudras. There's a fo shou type weapon that's a long pole, topped with metal hand that is in that mudra which is basically the cornu. I love that one too. It's very heavy metal.

As for the bronze man, here's my little anecdote about that. I used to work at American Fencers Supply (http://www.amfence.com/), and during the summers, when business was slow, they would station me upstairs in the premium weapon/break room where I would hand draw images of our products for our xerographic catalog. This was before the days of digital photography, although if you search about on that website, you'll still be able to find my drawings (they make swords there so they're still on the medieval side :rolleyes: ). Anyway, there I spent my summers for a couple of years, in this hot attic-like room, filled with our high grade swords, huffing ink and white out. Now, AFS is in the SOMA district of SF, near a lot of leather bars and halfway houses. We'd occasionally get some psycho street person coming in. Once this nut case grabbed a sword off the wall in our display room and started swinging. We all grabbed swords and chased him off, but after that, up there in that room, I always fantasized about another such intruder, in a stereotypic martial artist paranoid sort of way. Which of the premium swords would I grab? There was this little suit of armor statue that we had acquired and kept up there. It was about a yard tall. After seeing that bronze man reference, I always hoped to grab that first. I figured it would totally psych out any intruder. I've never seen a demo of that weapon (although I have a dusty memory of a movie reference). I'd love to see a real one.

[BruceSteveRoy]

i won't bring up sword-chuks because i find that i have played that topic to death so how about ...


http://drmcninja.com/page.php?pageNum=37&issue=5
http://drmcninja.com/page.php?pageNum=38&issue=5

[uki]

i have a set of big conch shells - each is big enough to stick a hand into and grasp.

[taai gihk yahn]

i have a set of big conch shells - each is big enough to stick a hand into and grasp.

brother U., you're just casting out into the sea for any old sort of bite these days, huh?
;)

[uki]

brother U., you're just casting out into the sea for any old sort of bite these days, huh?it's true!! i have these two big shells - seashell boxing gloves... do your sword form and adapt it to having one of these babies on your off-hand fist. :D

[jdhowland]

i have a set of big conch shells - each is big enough to stick a hand into and grasp.

That reminds me...I have a pair of tekko or iron shells from my Ryukyu kobudo training in Hawaii.

If you haven't seen these, they are spiked, stirrup-shaped iron "knuckle dusters." Almost all Ryukyuan weapons are derived from southern Chinese sources. So, does anyone know if these exist in Chinese arts? I don't recall whether they are featured in any of those old books on ancient Chinese weapons.

jd

[David Jamieson]

a pencil 9 10

[uki]

I wonder if the term "duck" had the same meaning as today. Now a duck refers to a male prostitute. Maybe getting clubbed to death by two little ducks just added to the humiliation. Was this some sort of Qing Dynasty pimp cane?

The Buddah hand is probably the best way to lay the smack down. Suggesting that their God is behind them getting smacked is a good way to keep them from fighting back.

Today in China guards use these rubber clubs which look like some sort of sexual device. I can imagine that this is a rather demeaning way to get Rodney Kinged.one can only imagine what goes on behind closed doors of police stations in china... or anywhere else for the matter. sodomizing a person with an object is one of the most humiliating ways to brutalize someone, we can be sure that the police are aware of this also. :)

[Yum Cha]

Yes, a pencil David. Shibumi!

Two forearm long length of angle iron, wrapped to the bottom of your forearm with an ace bandage, under a shirt.

[uki]

Two forearm long length of angle iron, wrapped to the bottom of your forearm with an ace bandage, under a shirt.my sphincter is relaxing just thinking about this...

[Xiao3 Meng4]

I've always wanted to get my hands on a BaGua Seven Star Bamboo Staff. I've never seen one, but I've heard the weapon is usually a piece of bamboo with 7 sections. The bamboo compartments are bored out from one end, so the bamboo ends up like a long, naturally capped tube. Then liquid mercury or cinnabar mixed with water is poured into it, filling one complete section of the bamboo. The open end is capped (I've never found out with what,) and voila! a weapon whose center of gravity can shift from one end to the other with a simple tilt or swing. Keep it close to the hand for defense, and swing it out to the end when you're aiming to crush skulls.

So yeah, any more info or pics or vids would be awesome. :)

I guess a modern version could be made from steel or something...

[CFT]

I've always wanted to get my hands on a BaGua Seven Star Bamboo Staff. I've never seen one, but I've heard the weapon is usually a piece of bamboo with 7 sections. The bamboo compartments are bored out from one end, so the bamboo ends up like a long, naturally capped tube. Then liquid mercury or cinnabar mixed with water is poured into it, filling one complete section of the bamboo. The open end is capped (I've never found out with what,) and voila! a weapon whose center of gravity can shift from one end to the other with a simple tilt or swing. Keep it close to the hand for defense, and swing it out to the end when you're aiming to crush skulls.Wouldn't the mercury evaporate rather quickly? Shudder to think of the health risks.

[Ray Pina]

I've always loved the spear umbrella that was made to counter the flying guillotine.

[GeneChing]

MartialArtsMart.com (http://www.martialartsmart.com/index.html) will no longer be stocking the following items - they are all on sale at 20% off:

Sun and Moon Spear Blades (http://www.martialartsmart.com/45-48.html)
Mandarin Coin Blades (http://www.martialartsmart.com/45-44.html)
Nine Teeth Hooks (http://www.martialartsmart.com/45-47.html)
Heaven & Earth Blade (http://www.martialartsmart.com/45-43.html) - Note: I published the complete form of this unique weapon in Heaven & Earth Blade in our 2008 September/October issue (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=780). It's a basic form, simple to learn.

[Ray Pina]

A corrections officer I know walks around work with a hot cup of coffee whenever possible. Never drinks it though. ;)

That's a very good idea!

Thank you.

[Xiao3 Meng4]

Wouldn't the mercury evaporate rather quickly? Shudder to think of the health risks.

Well, this is why I'd like to know how the handle end was capped. Was it leatherized? Lacquered? What? IMO, if the mercury came out of the business end of the staff (say the bamboo broke), then it would be the opponent who would bear the brunt of the poisoning. Also, I've always wondered whether or not the mercury/cinnabar could actually get absorbed into the bamboo, giving it a "poison palm" quality.

[David Jamieson]

chili squid ****s

clear a 5000 sq ft room on a cold day.

[Gowgee]

chili squid ****s

If I could ever erase part of my memory, now would be the time :eek:

Back on track, here are some more weapons:

http://www.goshin.co.jp/9-6.html
http://www.goshin.co.jp/9fchina2.html
http://www.goshin.co.jp/9f.chaina3.html
http://www.goshin.co.jp/ryusei1.html
http://www.goshin.co.jp/ryusei.html
http://www.goshin.co.jp/nunchaku.html
http://www.goshin.co.jp/sui.html

Also, I remember back in the 70s some of the chinatown triads used to use choppers or make-shift knuckle dusters from a palm-sized stick with nails hammered through them. I doubt anyone would need to go to the length of practicing forms with the latter, but thought I'd throw more wood on the fire!

[Kpower]

Well, this is why I'd like to know how the handle end was capped. Was it leatherized? Lacquered? What? IMO, if the mercury came out of the business end of the staff (say the bamboo broke), then it would be the opponent who would bear the brunt of the poisoning. Also, I've always wondered whether or not the mercury/cinnabar could actually get absorbed into the bamboo, giving it a "poison palm" quality.

seems like an oil and water mixture might work or maybe greased ballbearings.

[TenTigers]

Yes, a pencil David. Shibumi!
.
speaking of that great Master of the "Naked Kill," Nicholai Hel, he once used a plastic I.D. badge, broken in half, using the sharp, rough edge to slit a terrorist's throat. (a credit card does the same thing, which is why wherever I go, I always carry plastic, instead of paper) A magazine, rolled up corrctly will crush a man's larynx, and if memory serves, a broken lightbulb.
Due to a former run-in with the authorities, I no longer carry conventional weapons, but such things as a metal ruler, steel Cross pens, sharpened keys, and other seemingly harmless objects on my person.

[TenTigers]

Today in China guards use these rubber clubs which look like some sort of sexual device. I can imagine that this is a rather demeaning way to get Rodney Kinged.
a man was recently hospitalized for playing some sort of ghey sexual "game," where his partner sodomized him with one of those things you use to fix a toilet..forgot what they're called.

[banditshaw]

I've always loved the spear umbrella that was made to counter the flying guillotine.

Yes the Umbrella Spear Of Death!! Lovely weapon.

[banditshaw]

a man was recently hospitalized for playing some sort of ghey sexual "game," where his partner sodomized him with one of those things you use to fix a toilet..forgot what they're called.


They don't call it a plunger for nothing.

[Yum Cha]

Yes, good old Nicholi Hel. I'm going to have to pick that one up again. I seem to remember he had another secret, the delight of the blade....?

Amazing what you can learn from books....:D

[TenTigers]

They don't call it a plunger for nothing.

oh, so you've played it!

:eek::p

[TenTigers]

Yes, good old Nicholi Hel. I'm going to have to pick that one up again. I seem to remember he had another secret, the delight of the blade....?

Amazing what you can learn from books....:D
"The Delight of the Razor!"
Shibumi was one of the greatest books ever written. I am amazed they haven't made it into a movie yet, although every once in awhile, talk comes up about it. LAst I heard, Warners was involved. Still waiting.

[Yum Cha]

oh, so you've played it!

:eek::p:D

ARMAGEDON!!

http://www.entertonement.com/clips/crphdmqktd--gerbil

[Yum Cha]

"The Delight of the Razor!"
Shibumi was one of the greatest books ever written. I am amazed they haven't made it into a movie yet, although every once in awhile, talk comes up about it. Still waiting.

Delight of the razor, yes indeed. They don't teach that in Barber College...

[banditshaw]

oh, so you've played it!

:eek::p

Um... no... I uh.... don't have the foggiest idea of what your talking about.



:D

[uki]

Um... no... I uh.... don't have the foggiest idea of what your talking about. the game usually starts with a hamster and ends with a plunger... is the fog clearing yet?? :p

[Dragonzbane76]

the game usually starts with a hamster and ends with a plunger... is the fog clearing yet??

listen to the man he knows from experience.

[uki]

listen to the man he knows from experience.please forgive me for sharing your ancient teachings master. :p

[Lucas]

this is my favorite knife i own. ive only pulled it once, and you should have seen the guys face when i did. haha. ah, the days of our youth...:rolleyes: mine has a way better sheath though.

http://www.martialartsgear.com/specials/images/7684.jpg

[David Jamieson]

A frog belt buckle.


:D

who remembers that one? lol

[Xiao3 Meng4]

seems like an oil and water mixture might work or maybe greased ballbearings.

I've thought about just oil, discounted just water...

I like the ball bearing Idea. I've also thought about just sand, or iron filings.

[uki]

I've thought about just oil, discounted just water...

I like the ball bearing Idea. I've also thought about just sand, or iron filings.poison ivy sap...

[Dragonzbane76]

this is my favorite knife i own. ive only pulled it once, and you should have seen the guys face when i did. haha. ah, the days of our youth... mine has a way better sheath though.

did you steal that from stallon from the movie Cobra. :)

[Dragonzbane76]

please forgive me for sharing your ancient teachings master.
i'm no master, you probably read it out of a 5 and dime MA's book just like the rest of your training and teaching. :)

[Xiao3 Meng4]

Spit.

A Corrections officer once told me of a female inmate who was refusing to leave her cell. She was a big woman, and the officers felt they would have to take her out by force. Except this one guy. He says he'll go in and try to talk with her first. So he goes in, and starts explaining why they need her out of her cell, and it'll be easier for her if she cooperates, yada yada yada. Meanwhile, she's staring at him blankly, making funny noises. He keeps talking, raises his voice a bit, and as he's in mid sentence, the inmate spits a huge loogie into his mouth.

He gagged, stepped back, threw up, and left the cell.

[uki]

Spit.

A Corrections officer once told me of a female inmate who was refusing to leave her cell. She was a big woman, and the officers felt they would have to take her out by force. Except this one guy. He says he'll go in and try to talk with her first. So he goes in, and starts explaining why they need her out of her cell, and it'll be easier for her if she cooperates, yada yada yada. Meanwhile, she's staring at him blankly, making funny noises. He keeps talking, raises his voice a bit, and as he's in mid sentence, the inmate spits a huge loogie into his mouth.

He gagged, stepped back, threw up, and left the cell.that was awesome!!! i had a similar experience... when my daughter was like three months old, i had her on my chest as i was laying on my back just playing with her and all of a sudden i got curdled breastmilk spit up into my mouth... it was kinda gross, but i'll take that over someone elses loogie anyday. :D


i'm no master, you probably read it out of a 5 and dime MA's book just like the rest of your training and teaching.LOL... if you only knew. :)

[Dragonzbane76]

LOL... if you only knew.

no really i'm fine thanks....;)

[Lucas]

did you steal that from stallon from the movie Cobra. :)

you got it. it is in that movie.

little known fact, there are 3 versions. many fakes taht are low quality.

there is the mini cobra, cobra, and king cobra (two handed ! :eek: i knew a friend who had the cobra and king cobra compared they go up in the same scale ) the one in the movie is the mini cobra

i have the mini cobra, when belted it easily is conceeled in your front pocket, and can be drawn in about 1 second, your thumb pulls the blade out while your middle finger undoes the latch, and it literally falls into hand and clasped. if you have ever held one, its really one of the best combat knives ive ever held, simply for its design. you can punch, stab, slice or even just block with it.

[Xiao3 Meng4]

http://mag.ma/mustwatch/270127

[SanHeChuan]

The umbrella (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgQKAZzr4AU)

The flute (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rHMh3yh9Ww)

Horse Bench (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBMLTvcGRtw)

[SPJ]

the umbrella is almost like a sword or a short stick forms

:)

[GeneChing]

Remember our Kung Fu with sports gear (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47565)thread? Those were unusual (and kind of lame), but worthy of adding here as a tangent.

[jdhowland]

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46387

And this old one.

[GeneChing]

Nicely played, JD.

And speaking of ducks (errr, three years ago I mean) I neglect to mention about my fav crazy weapon, Mandarin Duck Razors aka Yuen Yang Razors (http://www.martialartsmart.com/45-78.html).
http://www.tigerclaw.com/images/P/45-78%20Yuan%20Yang%20Razors.png
We sell a fair amount of exotic weapons (http://www.martialartsmart.com/weapons-chinese-weapons-exotic-weapns.html) (you got to do that to cater to the TCMA) and as you all know, I've been slinging Chinese weapons for longer than I've worked here. When some samples of the ducks came in, I had never seen anything quite like them before. I knew they would sell. If you pick up a pair, your mind just starts going all sorts of violent places. They would be so easy to use for wreaking havoc. I've still never seen an authentic demonstration of the duck razors, but they sell fairly well, at least better than most exotics nowadays.

Even ninjettes like them! (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1053231&postcount=87) ;)

Note that these are not to be confused with those ducks on a stick. Duck razors are totally different Chinese weapons. That's why I love TCMA. The weapons are so comic book.

[TenTigers]

that was awesome!!! i had a similar experience... when my daughter was like three months old, i had her on my chest as i was laying on my back just playing with her and all of a sudden i got curdled breastmilk spit up into my mouth... it was kinda gross, but i'll take that over someone elses loogie anyday. :D

LOL... if you only knew. :)

There is a lesson here:
you should never have your grandmother breast feed your daughter.

[Graculus]

If we are going to go down the toilet route, I guess I better pull this one out -

If you have read 'Devil in a Blue Dress' you might remember the way Mouse got the drop on his half brother who had taken him out back to shoot him - he ****ed over his expensive boots. (first letter 'p' followed by an 'i' and 'ss').

Strangely this scene didn't make it into the movie...

Although that is only fiction, I did come across an account of someone using this for real, in 'da streetz' of old Japan.

If you are interested, I wrote a bit more about in my blog
http://ichijoji.blogspot.com/2010/10/unconventional-strategy.html

Graculus

[GeneChing]

...and guess that bodily excretions are not what was intended when posting this thread. However, I must say that the notion of a form that trains spitting or ****ing as a weapon sounds strangely entertaining in a youtube (http://www.youtube.com/user/KungfuMagazinedotcom) sort of way.