Fetus Style Kung Fu

[The Xia]

I heard it exists. I heard that the style imitates a fetus (if a fetus could walk). I heard it uses lots of elbows and short power. Anyone have any information on it? Anyone have any experiences with it? Videos?

[Flying-Monkey]

This dumb sh!t is one reason why kung fu sucks.

[xcakid]

I once got into a fight and was getting my butt kicked by 3 guys and went in a fetal position. Does that count?

No video though. But it was a heck of a move.

[golden arhat]

i'm not sure how to respond to that

is it supposed to be a joke ?

[IronWeasel]

Is this the answer that you seek?


http://www.ettishfetalfighting.8m.com/

[The Xia]

This is a serious inquiry.

[SevenStar]

This dumb sh!t is one reason why kung fu sucks.

yeah, I gotta agree with that. who would try and invent a style like this? it is like they wanted a gimmick that would bring them students. fetus? toad? crab? chickenhawk? who really studied these things in depth and came to the conclusion that fighting like a duck or a salamander is more effective than fighting like a human? I can almost understand snake, crane, mantis, ape, tiger, etc. but some things are just ridiculous.

[The Xia]

TCMA isn't the only grouping to have styles like that. Southeast Asian MA is full of them. I've also heard of some Japanese styles that people might say the same things about. Spider Jujutsu, for example. That said, I don't judge styles as ineffective because they might seem strange. I actually like them. I feel they represent the diversity of MA.

[5Animals1Path]

yeah, I gotta agree with that. who would try and invent a style like this? it is like they wanted a gimmick that would bring them students. fetus? toad? crab? chickenhawk? who really studied these things in depth and came to the conclusion that fighting like a duck or a salamander is more effective than fighting like a human? I can almost understand snake, crane, mantis, ape, tiger, etc. but some things are just ridiculous.

Chickenhawk style, a lineage long known to despise and revile the descendants of Foghorn Leghorn. :D

[bodhitree]

www.taooffetuskungfu.org/dumbstuff.htm

[BruceSteveRoy]

Chickenhawk style, a lineage long known to despise and revile the descendants of Foghorn Leghorn. :D

i was going to make an almost identical comment. ahh say ahh say ya beat me to it.

[B-Rad]

It's been mentioned a couple times in KFM. Maybe it doesn't sound as dumb in Chinese.... I don't know, but it is an actual style somewhere.

[GeneChing]

The first important thing to understand when doing kung fu research is that anything is possible. The second thing is that when a lot of kung fu research is stated simply, it sounds totally absurd.

We first published some info on Fetus style in our Nov 99 issue (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=103) in the article The Martial Menagerie: Exotic Animal Styles of Kung Fu (Part 2). I've heard of the style described by a few masters. It's very rare. Usually it is connected to the notion of prenatal qi, a fundamental concept if you've studied any qigong. Now, here's the rub about CMA research. Most people simplify imitative boxing to a rather limited level - just the fighting. Imitative boxing is actually symbolic. When you think about it, trying to fight like a tiger, or an eagle, or whatever, is absurd. It's more akin to shamanic familiars - it's taking on the spirit of the beast. Obviously, if it was all based on a literal translation of animal fighting techniques into human, dragon style would be a huge reach. So while we might think that fetus style fighting sounds absurd, if you understand the value that qigong puts upon prenatal qi, it's actually quite logical.

I have a personal theory about fetus style. The word in Chinese is tai xing, which is a ****phone for the word for ostrich style. Ostrich is a common animal in xingyi. Both styles tend to place the forearms together like parallel battering rams, and drive off the footwork, typically xingyi's santi posture. I believe that fetus style descended from a misheard lyric, so to speak - that some student misunderstood the word ostrich for the word fetus. As this was passed down to successive generations, more inquisitive students filled in the gaps about why these movements would be called fetus style, mostly with prenatal qi theory. There's no way that I can prove this since so much of lineage history is folk, colloquial and oral. It just seems reasonable to me given the similarities of the styles and the nature of CMA evolution. It wouldn't be the first time something like this has happened in CMA history, that's for sure.

[doug maverick]

i always thought you were a shaolin guy. but as for the statements i was gonna say almost they same thing about fetus kung fu. pre birth internal taoist system, called fetus style or whatever, alot people just don't get it and theres no point explaining everytime someone has a serious question, fool tend to comment. if you don't know the answer or don't care or think it's rediculous don't comment just move on.

[PangQuan]

gene regulates again

[GeneChing]

I've been studying xingyi for a few years now with Tony Chen. I really enjoy xingyi sword (http://www.martialartsmart.net/dvd-lh006.html). But lately, Sifu Chen and I have been really busy, so we haven't been connecting for lessons, so I'm going back to Shaolin.

[SevenStar]

TCMA isn't the only grouping to have styles like that. Southeast Asian MA is full of them. I've also heard of some Japanese styles that people might say the same things about. Spider Jujutsu, for example. That said, I don't judge styles as ineffective because they might seem strange. I actually like them. I feel they represent the diversity of MA.

china definitely has the corner on that market. japanese styles were based on more natural movements and were not animal styles, though they may have had some animal named techniques - cat stance, ox-jaw fist, crane's beak, etc. It's rare that you will have ever seen an entire japanese style based on an animal, and if there was, I am betting that it is extinc now. I don't think spider was the style of jujutsu. If I remember right, a guy happened upon a spider trapping something in his web, and somehow, that gave him greater understanding of the principles of aiki. I don't think he created his own style based on it.

As for SE Asian arts, same thing muay thai and kali have animal named techniques - crocodile whips its tail, snaking, etc. but are not patterned after animals. I am not sure about silat, however.

I am not saying that animal styles are ineffective - what I am saying is I don't understand why they tried to pattern themselves after animals, thinking that it would make them more effective than had they remained fighting like humans.

[The Xia]

I heard the style had to do with prenatal chi and was called "tai xing". It's funny you mention Ostritch style. I've heard it also called "Emu".

[PangQuan]

china definitely has the corner on that market. japanese styles were based on more natural movements and were not animal styles, though they may have had some animal named techniques - cat stance, ox-jaw fist, crane's beak, etc. It's rare that you will have ever seen an entire japanese style based on an animal, and if there was, I am betting that it is extinc now. I don't think spider was the style of jujutsu. If I remember right, a guy happened upon a spider trapping something in his web, and somehow, that gave him greater understanding of the principles of aiki. I don't think he created his own style based on it.

As for SE Asian arts, same thing muay thai and kali have animal named techniques - crocodile whips its tail, snaking, etc. but are not patterned after animals. I am not sure about silat, however.

I am not saying that animal styles are ineffective - what I am saying is I don't understand why they tried to pattern themselves after animals, thinking that it would make them more effective than had they remained fighting like humans.

to me it would seem that maybe these guys that did fassion their arts so closely to animals may have done so due to lack of understanding the human body and its abilities in combat. in other words, not enough research and compilation of data had yet been recorded/passed along to give a solid style that could be used.

kind of like taking a shortcut in a sense. they see this tiger and how it fights and see it kill things so well. they might figure if they could copy closely enough they might be able to fight as well. (just shooting in the dark here BTW :p )

granted as people developed and studied and practiced and tested these styles, they would surely find out more about thier own bodies and physiologies. thus removing further from the actual animal movements and embodying more of the "essence' of the animal and its movements.

plus the aspect that people would see an animal fully removed from the ego and fighting purely on instinct. something humans have a hard time doing. maybe they were trying to get closer to that aspect. also as mentioned by gene the whole shamanistic approach. we are dealing with people from a very long time ago who had different ideas about animals and spirits and such.

[GeneChing]

It's shamanism, pure and simple. The reason to pattern yourself after an animal, or a drunk, or a fetus, is highly practical in a culture governed by superstition and folklore. This was the China of old (and to some degree, modern China, although they might be unlikely to admit it). In shamanism, you seek to gain power through the spirit world, and these often manifest with animals. It's akin to voodoo, witch doctor stuff, obeah. However, in a culture that is based on this kind of belief system, it's very powerful.

This taps into the whole 'no touch knockout' thing, something I touched upon in my Jul Aug 2002 article (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=234), No Touch Knockouts: Pressure Points and Qi Projection. It's all about faith. If you are within a culture that has a lot of faith, evoking animals or other spiritual sources into your fighting style is very powerful. If everyone believes in no touch knockouts, then they work. In our current age of science, these things lose their combat practicality.

However, that doesn't mean they lose their validity. Shamanism is a taproot of our tradition. To simply disregard it is to throw the baby (or the fetus) out with the bathwater. Intrinsic within these shamanistic beliefs are implicit morals. As we 'scientifically' disprove these superstitions within the martial arts, we must be careful not to become amoral in the process.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

i once saw these pictures of some japanese dude eating a featus, but it was fake. it was duck with a babydolls head on it. what a jokester!

[Becca]

I am not saying that animal styles are ineffective - what I am saying is I don't understand why they tried to pattern themselves after animals, thinking that it would make them more effective than had they remained fighting like humans.
... Because many human fighting meathods such as mouth boxing and food fighting aren't as effective as animal meathods.

[SevenStar]

remember that cooking show "two fat ladies"? on one of their shows, they cooked a placenta. They said it was a delicacy in some parts of the world.

[SevenStar]

... Because many human fighting meathods such as mouth boxing and food fighting aren't as effective as animal meathods.

food fighting is more tasty than poo flinging and projectile vomit, so I would still rather be human.

[Becca]

... but nobody flings the poo back at you. They will throw the mashed potatos back if you don't get good coverage, though.:rolleyes:

[NJM]

This dumb sh!t is one reason why kung fu sucks.

Why are you on these forums?

[BoulderDawg]

I heard it exists. I heard that the style imitates a fetus (if a fetus could walk). I heard it uses lots of elbows and short power. Anyone have any information on it? Anyone have any experiences with it? Videos?


What's next? Are we going to have "Taking a crap" style?:D

You kinda move around like you have to crap feel bad. Then when you body unloads :D on your opponent you just kinda relax!

[Mas Judt]

The creator of fetus style made a 'choice' - so they sprayed it with saline solution, stuck a fork in it's head and sucked it out of the womb.

But it was a choice man, so don't criticize.

[KC Elbows]

I am not saying that animal styles are ineffective - what I am saying is I don't understand why they tried to pattern themselves after animals, thinking that it would make them more effective than had they remained fighting like humans.

1) Were the moves patterned after the animal, or were the moves named for the animal whose fighting appproach they most resembled, as a mnemonic device? i.e., If you were to ascribe "human fighting moves" into a small group of animals that the moves were reminiscent of, would it take five animals to do so? Would it be easy to do it in fewer? Would they cease being human moves?

2) How do humans fight? If we are to think of it in terms of instinctual fighting, children's play fighting is the answer, and that is not the same as a developed form of ground fighting or stand up, but more an aggressive approach. If we include fighting methods developed over time, like many of the more common chokes, etc, then how do we not include animal methods as methods humans developed to fight, making them "fighting like humans"?

Obviously lots of grey areas in both points. There's plenty of moves in animal boxing styles that are standard to many styles, western and non-western. A figure four, a fireman's carry, and other common moves we've seen in snake boxing are an example, etc.

[PangQuan]

It's shamanism, pure and simple. The reason to pattern yourself after an animal, or a drunk, or a fetus, is highly practical in a culture governed by superstition and folklore. This was the China of old (and to some degree, modern China, although they might be unlikely to admit it). In shamanism, you seek to gain power through the spirit world, and these often manifest with animals. It's akin to voodoo, witch doctor stuff, obeah. However, in a culture that is based on this kind of belief system, it's very powerful.

This taps into the whole 'no touch knockout' thing, something I touched upon in my Jul Aug 2002 article (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=234), No Touch Knockouts: Pressure Points and Qi Projection. It's all about faith. If you are within a culture that has a lot of faith, evoking animals or other spiritual sources into your fighting style is very powerful. If everyone believes in no touch knockouts, then they work. In our current age of science, these things lose their combat practicality.

However, that doesn't mean they lose their validity. Shamanism is a taproot of our tradition. To simply disregard it is to throw the baby (or the fetus) out with the bathwater. Intrinsic within these shamanistic beliefs are implicit morals. As we 'scientifically' disprove these superstitions within the martial arts, we must be careful not to become amoral in the process.


i read this book a while back called the holographic universe (michael talbot i think)

anywho, there is an entire section on divine intervention, miracles, and faith based deeds. he went over many documented cases through several cultures dealing with un explained faith based phenomenon. it was actually quite interesting. i think touches along the same lines as to why many of these things in dealing with martial arts that may be hard to believe happened or are simply unexplained. of course there was no 'answer' to these types of events in the book, other than the aspect that for each episode, miracle, intervention or what have you, the connection between them was that for each one, all of the people involved were very very very strong in their beliefs regarding what was at hand.

this type of pooled faith can be a very strong motivational property for what we may percieve is actually happening. as well as the the motivation to help conciously or subconsiously assist in the fabrication, the actual happening of the event, or recalling what may have happened.

the mind is a tricky place to navigate, even in todays world with our minute understanding of it...just imagine what kinds of things mind tricks could get away with when people were much more ignorant about the workings of the human psyche....

[SevenStar]

1) Were the moves patterned after the animal, or were the moves named for the animal whose fighting appproach they most resembled, as a mnemonic device? i.e., If you were to ascribe "human fighting moves" into a small group of animals that the moves were reminiscent of, would it take five animals to do so? Would it be easy to do it in fewer? Would they cease being human moves?

2) How do humans fight? If we are to think of it in terms of instinctual fighting, children's play fighting is the answer, and that is not the same as a developed form of ground fighting or stand up, but more an aggressive approach. If we include fighting methods developed over time, like many of the more common chokes, etc, then how do we not include animal methods as methods humans developed to fight, making them "fighting like humans"?

Obviously lots of grey areas in both points. There's plenty of moves in animal boxing styles that are standard to many styles, western and non-western. A figure four, a fireman's carry, and other common moves we've seen in snake boxing are an example, etc.

that's a very good point. I guess I am thinking more along the lines of claws, beaks, wings, etc. ape footwork, monkey footwork, etc.

by human fighting, the child's play flailing and wrestling is exactly what it is. when it's refined, it goes from haymakers, windmilling and headlocks to hooks, overhands and chokes. other than pinching, claw type motions aren't instinctual, unless you count a slap as an unrefined claw.

[KC Elbows]

that's a very good point. I guess I am thinking more along the lines of claws, beaks, wings, etc. ape footwork, monkey footwork, etc.

Aside from claws, I can agree with your point.


by human fighting, the child's play flailing and wrestling is exactly what it is. when it's refined, it goes from haymakers, windmilling and headlocks to hooks, overhands and chokes. other than pinching, claw type motions aren't instinctual, unless you count a slap as an unrefined claw.

I would say clawing, like biting, IS instinctual, and something one teaches children out of the first time their tiny crazy hard nails draw blood. However, it might be a case where your family is more evolved than mine.

Aside from that, I largely agree with you, but there are claws and grabs I think are useful and refined, regardless of their source.

[PangQuan]

along those lines....

ive noticed attaching the term, "claw" or "wing" etc...will get some people to dismiss what your talking about right away. assuming that its "lame animal kungfu" when some times these techniques are totally legit and practical.