Absurd use of Conservatism vs. Liberalism in some shools

[Black Jack II]

How do these teachers get hired, where do these people find the time for this kind of nonsense? It's like a slew of stories of this kind of thing lately, if it was my kid a lawsuit would be getting ready to roll ASAP.

One of the main reason I am doing the private school thing. It's money that will be well spent.

http://www.charlotte.com/118/story/120829.html

[BoulderDawg]

To me this sounds like more conservative scare tactics:

"Remember kids the scary bad terrorists are out there so it's important that you have a gun with you at all times....encourage your parents to buy a gun."

We need more liberals in the schools. Especially in the south where this happened. This would have never happened in an enlightened classroom.

[BoulderDawg]

However do you really want an "Absurd use of realism"? Then check this out:

http://www.cnn.com/video/player/player.html?url=/video/world/2007/05/17/black.iraq.stoning.cnn

It's of the stoning death of a teenage girl in Iraq. Outragious. It looked like hundreds of men were there and took part.....no one lifted a finger to help.

Watch this video while at the same time remind yourself that these are the people that Americans are fighting and dying for.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

You know, if we turned this whole region into glass, in the long run less people would die because they would no longer be able to continually breed generation after generation of murderers...

[rogue]

I wouldn't want my kid to go through it but I'd like to see whatever data they collected from "attack".

[rogue]

To me this sounds like more conservative scare tactics:

"Remember kids the scary bad terrorists are out there so it's important that you have a gun with you at all times....encourage your parents to buy a gun."

We need more liberals in the schools. Especially in the south where this happened. This would have never happened in an enlightened classroom.

Are you from the south or know anything about it?

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Yes, i would like to see it too...I'd bet we could guess though.

[Black Jack II]

Boulder talks out his a$$ Rogue, ya know that. The guy wears clownshoes his ibred mommy made for him.



We need more liberals in the schools.

Perfect example, most teachers are liberal, and its a reason that education is so jinxed as it is. It get's worse once in college, the last manor for aging hippies with a lost world view.


I wouldn't want my kid to go through it but I'd like to see whatever data they collected from "attack".

Prob a bunch of scared kids crying. It's not like it was a experiment directed by people who knew what they were doing. It was a bunch of inapt goofs who thought they were doing a service.

[Becca]

Are you from the south or know anything about it?

He's showing you exactly why we in the blue coller areas of Denver call it "The People's Republic of Boulder." No tolerance what so ever unless it is needed to justify thier own very odd opinions...:rolleyes:

[BraveMonkey]

Perfect example, most teachers are liberal, and its a reason that education is so jinxed as it is. It get's worse once in college, the last manor for aging hippies with a lost world view.

All liberalism is, is a movement towards tolerance and free-thinking. It's a way of thinking that promotes the idea that people should live as they see fit (as long as it doesn't harm other people) rather than living as *I* see fit. I would hope that teachers and professors would in fact instill the idea people should have open minds and broad perspectives, rather than trying to instill strict boundaries on what is and is not okay based on personal biases and/or religious dogma.

[xcakid]

To me this sounds like more conservative scare tactics:

"Remember kids the scary bad terrorists are out there so it's important that you have a gun with you at all times....encourage your parents to buy a gun."



When was the last time we had a mass shooting in the South? Lemme see....60's in Austin. Terrell TX, sure, but the gunman was shot at by both cops and civilians. Matter of fact one civilian was credited for shooting at the assailant and taking fire saving some people trying to get out.

When was the last time we had shootings in Liberal states.....hmmm. CA where there is restricted gun ownership. There have been a few. There are quite a few on a daily basis in SoCal. VA....yep. Boston....yep. HI.....yep. Various shooting and roberries in NJ. Again state with restricted gun use. Cause only criminals have guns. Reason being cause they don't follow gun laws. Gun laws only subjegate law abiding citizens.

With regards to terrorist and being armed. You ever go to Israel. The teachers carrry guns over there to PROTECT the school kids from terrorist attacks. No school shootings there is there?

[Black Jack II]

Because of the Democratic socialism which is forced to our kids by the liberal concept of big government, our schools are filled with horrible teachers using there public funded desk as a personal soapbox to express there own world views on global unity, political correctness to a insane degree, nutty enviromental scare tactics, pro-gay indoctrination, views on the military, the feminization of young boys, often a lot of this being without ANY parent consent.


It's social engineering being carried out under the banners of social justice and humanitarianism, backed by cool buzzwords, but its all still socialism and its the the cause of the decline. If you want to know where a lot of this started do some research on John Dewey and Norman Thomas.

Back in the day a student could slug it out with another and just get a detention, you could play dodgeball, pranks were a part of life, now you get a swat team called in and a kid gets put on a dose of Ritalin so the school can get a extra bonus as they now have another person with a learning disability.

Now you got schools filled with violence, unwanted pregnancy, failing test scores....liberalism is failing in schools.

But back on topic, I don't think this has anything to do with one political side, it has to do with a bunch of dumb$$ teachers who stepped over the line.

Again, if you can afford it go with a private school, that and try and push for educational vouchers, another thing a certain sector does not want the public to have access to.

[YiLiQuan1]

Liberal does not equal "enlightened."

Conservative does not equal "ignorant."

:mad:

[BraveMonkey]

Liberal does not equal "enlightened."

Conservative does not equal "ignorant."

:mad:

This is true, but...

Liberalism does pursue change, whereas conservatism does tend to try to keep thinking stagnant. Consider that the world is a changing place and societies that do not evolve in their perspective become backward and left behind. Look what happened to China and Japan when they closed themselves off from the "evils" of the Western world - now they are playing catch up.

That said, too much liberal thinking is counterproductive since not everything needs to change all the time. A good balance between conservative and liberal thinking is better than one dominating the other. People who cannot accept this tend to be afraid of having their world views (paradigms) challenged because, *gasp* they might have to alter them. I'm a pretty liberal guy in general, but that doesn't mean that I can't be schooled by a well-constructed conservative argument.

Conservitive thinking has not made the United States a utopia, nor has liberal. Together, however, the two have gotten us as close as anyone else in history. It's too bad that one side always had to demand all the credit.

[BoulderDawg]

The conservatives make their points through fear:

"The terrorists/illegal aliens/whoever want to break into your home and kill you."

"The labor unions will cause your company to shut down so you don't have a job."

"The schools will not allow religion but instead teach little Johnny how to worship the devil."

The liberals make their points through education and respect:

"Let's learn about people from different cultures and see if we have any common ground."

"Let's encourage a good relationship between labor unions and corporate America for a better working environment for all."

"Let our schools teach the ABCs and leave the religious training to the parents."

*************************

In any case this kind of comments is something I've heard in the past:

"Boulder talks out his a$$ ........ The guy wears clownshoes his ibred mommy made for him."

That's no big deal. Believe me I've heard a lot worse in the past.......


From The People's Republic. The best place in the US to live in.

[rogue]

"The terrorists/illegal aliens/whoever want to break into your home and kill you."
It's happened.

"The labor unions will cause your company to shut down so you don't have a job."
That along with idiot executives trying to bolster their stock's price instead of producing the best products possible. And Unions have caused some companies to close factories because of labor costs.

"The schools will not allow religion but instead teach little Johnny how to worship the devil."
Not so much teach but to tolerate.

The liberals make their points through education and respect:

"Let's learn about people from different cultures and see if we have any common ground."
Yes, Al Qeda and Michael Moore both hate the US.

"Let's encourage a good relationship between labor unions and corporate America for a better working environment for all."
Perish the thought of looking at Toyota as a good example.

"Let our schools teach the ABCs and leave the religious training to the parents."
That would be great, but instead my kids get saddled with having to watch movies by Al Gore.

[Black Jack II]

I am sure you have heard worse Boulder, anyone..excuse me any nut, who says that our soliders deserve what they get in Iraq, deserves far, far, far more.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

I think the schools should spend more time teaching the ABC's, and Math too, instead of using that subject time to brain wash thier personal philosophies into the students.

Math class is for learning MATH!! **NOT** engaging in social engineering experiments!! :mad:

[bodhitree]

I am a liberal guy ( albeit moderately liberal) and I had a math professor in college who would always push really liberal views. You can find the opposite too. Kenneth Starr is the Dean of some law school in California. As open minded as people claim to be, a lot of them really are not.

The most non-baised teacher I have ever had was an elected politician as well. He would give you the complete persuasive arguement from the liberal side and turn around and give you the same from the conservative point of view. He truely was unique.

[BoulderDawg]

I think the schools should spend more time teaching the ABC's, and Math too, instead of using that subject time to brain wash thier personal philosophies into the students.

Math class is for learning MATH!! **NOT** engaging in social engineering experiments!! :mad:

About 10 years ago I did some substitute teaching. One of the classes I taught was advanced placement in math at middle school level. I go in there finally thinking I might be able to explain a concept without dumbing it down. However I start teaching and soon realize I'm getting a lot of blank stares. I had to revert back to the 3rd grade concepts to be understood.

Later I found out that "Advanced placement" was just another word for "Social placement". If you were white and rich with the right connections you got put into the advanced classes. Oh yeah, there were a few bright kids in the class who earned it but you could not teach them because more than half the class would simply be lost!

[rogue]

Ever think the problem may have been you?

[Black Jack II]

Wait,

Why is the title of the thread changed????????????????????????????

I did not make the thread at all regarding any political agenda, read the post for the love of pete. It just happened to be changed during the course of its evolution. The title was "absurd use of realism" and it was to reflect the use of realism in enviromental training for these kids and how these people had no background in this type of thing nor was it cool doing it in the context allowed.

So why change it?????

Who did that, Seven or Design?

[Black Jack II]

If you were white and rich with the right connections you got put into the advanced classes.

BS, its how your paranoid mind viewed it.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

I don't like this new trend in title changing....it's too reminiscent of Bullshido.

[Black Jack II]

Royal,

Yeah, what the hell. This is the second time. What is goofy about this one is it happened mid stream.:rolleyes:

I mean are we going to do that to all the post topics that go offline on what it was supposed to be??????????????????????????????????

I call bs on this.

[BoulderDawg]

Ever think the problem may have been you?

I guess so.....

My bad for thinking that if you're in a 7th grade class for advanced students you should at least be able to do the work on a 7th grade level. I quickly found out what "Advanced" really meant!

[xcakid]

Later I found out that "Advanced placement" was just another word for "Social placement". If you were white and rich with the right connections you got put into the advanced classes. Oh yeah, there were a few bright kids in the class who earned it but you could not teach them because more than half the class would simply be lost!

Man, I thought right wing conservatives had some crazy conspiracy theories. But I would have to say, this one is in the top 3.

Holy sheeps brain. Put down the bong, lay off the acid and turn off CNN for a minute would ya. :eek:

[BoulderDawg]

Man, I thought right wing conservatives had some crazy conspiracy theories. But I would have to say, this one is in the top 3.

Holy sheeps brain. Put down the bong, lay off the acid and turn off CNN for a minute would ya. :eek:

No "conspiracies" about it. When you walk into an 7th grade advanced placement math class where the majority of the student have to have a calculator to add 125 + 50 then you know there's something going on.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

That is because they never learned math in the first place. They learned how to use a calculator.

I hated it when they did that to my daughter, but you are pretty much forced to go along with it if you can't afford a priviate school.

Since when did cheating become so acceptable that it is actually promoted and required by the teacher??

[FuXnDajenariht]

whoa whoa? why do Democratic Socialists get the blame?

it aint our fault the country is down the toilet now.

if i remember correctly a neo-conservative is running the show... :rolleyes:

[xcakid]

Yeah, basic calculator is a must in my old Jr HS and HS. We stopped using paper after elementary.

I went to Catholic school up till 9th Grade. I was never in any special class in Catholic school. However, H.S. public school I was put in Honors class. I was being taught stuff in 9th grade I already learned in 8th grade.

Just depends on the school system on what they view as "advanced" or "honors" class. I has nothing to do with race.

Hell, I do bond math for a living. Yield to maturity, convexity and modified and maucauley duration calculations as well as beta, standard deviation and calculating vega on options pricing. Yet I have hard time adding up things in my grocery cart or figuring out tax on my bar tab.

[golden arhat]

All liberalism is, is a movement towards tolerance and free-thinking. It's a way of thinking that promotes the idea that people should live as they see fit (as long as it doesn't harm other people) rather than living as *I* see fit. I would hope that teachers and professors would in fact instill the idea people should have open minds and broad perspectives, rather than trying to instill strict boundaries on what is and is not okay based on personal biases and/or religious dogma.

thats going in my signiature

edited a bit for space tho

[Mas Judt]

Having traveled to the 'enlightened' Warsaw Pact & Soviet Union - before the 'workers' rose up and lynched thier oppressors - I can clearly say that Socialism is a disaster whereever applied. Socialism in our schools has been destroying our culture by replaceing a culture of independence with one of dependance - all while proclaiming how 'free' we are. Yet when someone like Boulder talks, I can hear his chains clanking.


www.ronpaul2008.com - this is what liberalism was in this country before the word got hijacked by socialists and pedophiles.

[Black Jack II]

Fux,

Bangs head against wall....stay on context.

We are talking about the school system here and its history. Which btw is the total f@ck up of social democrats.

Enjoy.

[BoulderDawg]

I don't under the concept of "Socialism" in the classroom. All I know is that liberals want equal treatment for all in the classroom. If its socialism to suggest that one group of students be treated as another group then so be it.

As far as teaching itself, liberals want strict academic standards. Lets leave the Pledge of alligence, creation theory and bible classes to others. While other schools are spending 15 minutes a day with moments of silence, pledges to George Bush and so on the students in my liberal school will be studying.

[golden arhat]

I don't under the concept of "Socialism" in the classroom. All I know is that liberals want equal treatment for all in the classroom. If its socialism to suggest that one group of students be treated as another group then so be it.

As far as teaching itself, liberals want strict academic standards. Lets leave the Pledge of alligence, creation theory and bible classes to others. While other schools are spending 15 minutes a day with moments of silence, pledges to George Bush and so on the students in my liberal school will be studying.

pledges to george bush LOL

[BraveMonkey]

Problems with American schools have nothing to do with social liberalism and everything to do with budget issues and pressure to perform in standardized testing. Add in a little poverty and ethnic tension and you've got the formula for struggle.

Sorry to burst your bubble but you can't point the finger at the democrats and blame them for squat when it comes to the quality education. If you don't like an open approach to classroom interaction or creative and innovative presentation of required materials then you probably won't understand why so many students struggle and you will fail to understand why "no child left behind" leaves a lot of children behind and manages to frustrate and confound the teachers who are burdened by it.

If you think it's wrong to teach tolerance for hom0sexuality, or that evolution is a viable theory of biological change and variety, or that the minutia of human sexual behavior is appropriate material for a public education, that is your right to think so. But the teachers who think differently are the ones that are broadening minds instead of shutting them down. Neither "liberal" teachers nor democrats keep you from taking your kids to church nor helping them to understand what beliefs and values are important to you. A public education cannot and should not cater the the personal bias of any parent or group of parents, no matter how important they think they are.

[Becca]

That is because they never learned math in the first place. They learned how to use a calculator.

I hated it when they did that to my daughter, but you are pretty much forced to go along with it if you can't afford a priviate school.

Since when did cheating become so acceptable that it is actually promoted and required by the teacher??
Or teach them yourself... shesh, expecting a parent to involve themselves in thier child's education???:rolleyes:

[SanHeChuan]

School districts who get money misuse it. The money goes into the hands of the admistrators, not the school it's self. The admistractors spend the money on themselves first. When the money does get to the school, it's spent on oympic style pools, etc. What they need is more classrooms and teachers to put in them. In order to attract more and better qualified teachers, they need to pay them more.

[Mas Judt]

Look, my cousins in Germany come out of school able to read, write and speak three languages.

Thier schools are rigourous - taught in local lingua franca, not multiple languages (although multiple languages are taught) - and testing standards are high. Tough schools WORK.

The problem with American schools aren't standardized tests, it is the lack of academic rigor and an anemic, lazy batch of educators whose union fights for things that hurt the students rather than helps them. Not to mention parasitic selfish parents who don't care enough to get involved. (or teat-sucking welfare bums. My lord have I seen enough of that as a landlord.)

The left is not entirely wrong on keeping religion out of the schools - you go to the rural midWest and you meet crazy pentacostals who say "we don't care about math and science, we care about what Jesus thought about math and science."

Honestly, there is nothing wrong with a good secular education, although I don't beleive that should prevent historic traditions such as Christmas or Halloween from being celebrated in schools.

Most educated folks probably agree with these statements - but are too busy fighting over minutiae to realize it. A little competition would be good to fix things up.

While I like the idea of school vouchers - the thought of Islamic schools spreading hate and ignorance, or for that matter fundamentalists spreading ignorance scares the p!ss out of me. But that does not mean the current, failed system gets my support either.

[Becca]

... Not to mention parasitic selfish parents who don't care enough to get involved...

Yep. If my kids need help with homework, I'm not going to let them struggle alone while I whine because I can't aford Sylvin or some other after school money sump. I'm going to help them with thier homework. If I can't figure it out myself, then I REALLY need to work on those skills myself anyway.

There are all kinds of ways to help you kid if you don't know the material yourself. I personally call my oldest boy's teachers to find out what they are planning on teaching in the next week, month, whatever. Then I go google it if I don't know what it is. It's not hard. It's not even time consuming; Heck, I spend more time goofing off on this board than I do researching my kids' future homework topics...:rolleyes:

Standardized tests are pretty much worthless for anything but a scape goat, but the scape goat has never been the root of a problem. The same can be said for pop quizzes. They can give a teacher a valuble insite into his/her class's work level. Or it can tell her if they ate breakfast or not, as a kid who didn't eat well is going to do worse...

I see no point in blaming... It doesn't help anyone. It doen't even make me feel better.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Or teach them yourself... shesh, expecting a parent to involve themselves in thier child's education???

Reply]
And what makes you think I didn't? Do you have any idea how hard it is to get a High school student to work out math equasions WITHOUT a calculator when her TEACHER'S require them?

I will tell you what happens,it generates the entire school season of fighting, arguing, stress, rebellion and bitter heartbreak in the home and creates a kid who thinks her father is an oppressive overlord, THAT is what happens. It got to a point where I was so upset, for such a high percentage of the time that I could not even sleep at nite.

The attempt to force her to do math by hand when her teachers not only didn't require it, but ADVOCATED cheating with a calculator got to be a case where it was causing more damage than good. I had to stop doing it for my own sanity, and her's. The insistance that she do math by hand turned into such an enormous battle that the stress of it was bleeding over into my work, sleep and everything. It got so we both hated eachother for a while, and the family life was breaking down from the CONSTANT fighting and battle that ensued. You just cannot go the entire school year with a sick burnt feeling constantly in your stomach...your a moron if you think that is healthy!

Now, if I had support from her stupid teachers who would realise using a frik'n calculator was cheating, and punished kids for doing so none of this would have been a problem because we would all be on the same page. But you can't have one kid trying to do her work right, while the rest of the class gets to cheat WITH THE TEACHER'S SUPPORT **AND** DIRECTION!!!

I have enough on my plate trying to keep a roof over our heads and food in the fridge. if I was in a position to home school her through highschool, I wouldn't have been sending her to moronic modern and USELESS school in the frik'n first place!!

So don't EVEN get me started on the Teach them yourself crap!! :mad:

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Yeah, basic calculator is a must in my old Jr HS and HS. We stopped using paper after elementary.

Reply]
In my day a calculator was grounds for a detention for cheating. We actually were required to learn the material being taught. Cheating was not allowed.

Today Cheating is not only not a punishable offense, it is REQUIRED by the idiots posing as teachers!

In my day doing algebra was a mental exercise. we were able to look at the numbers, follow the algebraic formula and the answers just came to us. Why was this the norm back then? because we had memorized and used our math tables so extensively that they became like a language.

You put an algebraic equation in front of a kid today, and they couldn't even think about doing it until the calculator was found.

In my day the first step would have been to solve for X.

Today the first step is to find the calculator and make IT do the work so you don't have to.

[YiLiQuan1]

The conservatives make their points through fear:

Conservatives can also make their points through common sense and a sense of history.


The liberals make their points through education and respect:

Liberals can also make their points through over-sensitivity and misplaced idealism.

[FuXnDajenariht]

Socialism in our schools has been destroying our culture by replaceing a culture of independence with one of dependance - all while proclaiming how 'free' we are.

that can just as easily be scapegoated by conservatism and unchecked capitalism.

[Mega-Foot]

However do you really want an "Absurd use of realism"? Then check this out:

http://www.cnn.com/video/player/player.html?url=/video/world/2007/05/17/black.iraq.stoning.cnn

It's of the stoning death of a teenage girl in Iraq. Outragious. It looked like hundreds of men were there and took part.....no one lifted a finger to help.

Watch this video while at the same time remind yourself that these are the people that Americans are fighting and dying for.

I don't really think this is so outrageous. Even in today's modern society. Some of you will think I'm out of my mind, I'm sure. But even if you read the Bible, it doesn't actually proscript anyone from stoning women to death. It merely says: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

So, what I see when I watch this video are couple of stand-up guys who made smart life decisions, avoided sin whithersoever it lay in ambush, who stoned a girl because she violated the law.

Who are you to judge the sinless?

[zippo_88]

All liberalism is, is a movement towards tolerance and free-thinking. It's a way of thinking that promotes the idea that people should live as they see fit (as long as it doesn't harm other people) rather than living as *I* see fit. I would hope that teachers and professors would in fact instill the idea people should have open minds and broad perspectives, rather than trying to instill strict boundaries on what is and is not okay based on personal biases and/or religious dogma.

I'm sensing a pattern of me agreeing with you BraveMonkey lol, nicely said, very well put.

[Fu-Pow]

I think a better term than liberal is progressive. What is "liberal" is always changing. Many of the values and beliefs that republicans hold would have been considered liberal 200 yrs ago. Liberals want to keep changing things to make them better, conservatives think that if we go back it will make them better.

The problem I see for conservatives is that the world is changing so fast now. Technology and knowledge accumulation are acclerated. There are huge differences now in the experiences of people born only 10 yrs apart.

This "human experiment" has a life of its own now. We can only adapt and try to do the least amount of harm and cause the least amount of suffering.

We can't go back.

If anyone is interested there is a theory known as Spiral Dynamics that seeks to explain the evolution of value systems. Its an interesting perspective.

[Merryprankster]

Gee. The blame game. How fun. Prime example of what is wrong with the ME too, incidentally. Anyway....

My 5-point plan for un****ing the public school system:

1. Pay teachers more. You can't attract better talent without more cash. There is a price for this, found in point 2.

2. End tenure for public school teachers. You're an employee, evaluated on performance, not on longevity.

3. Establish performance metrics that include standardized tests for various subjects at particular waypoints. These tests would include essays and such, so I'm not just talking about multiple choice scantron bull****. Yeah, I know standardized tests aren't popular to some people, but you've got to measure if you want improvement. Tough ****.

4. Recognize that not every kid is college material. Establish exams before you enter your Junior year of High School to determine university or votech track. Institute appropriate vo-tech education to give them the specialized skills to make a good living, and get them certified in a skill/program of their choice. This doesn't mean they can't pursue a college degree later in life. There is as much honor and worth in landscaping, being a good mechanic, a plumber or a nurse (yes, I know that takes longer...) as there is in a bachelor's degree.

5. Create accountability in your students. ****-ups have consequences. I have a friend, for instance, that had to figure out which students REALLY deserved to fail, because she was only allowed to fail a certain percentage. **** that.

[BoulderDawg]

I think a better term than liberal is progressive.

I leave the term "Progressive" to the Democrats and all the others who are interested in word play. If someone introduces themselves to me as a progressive I simply shake their hand, say "Nice to meet you" and move on. Personally I have less respect for these people than I do the hard core conservatives. The "Progressives" are trying to have their cake and eat it too.

I'm a liberal. If anyone has a problem with that then that's just too bad.:D

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

If schools need more money, how come a stay at home Mom can educate her kids via Home schooling with almost no budget at all?

[Mega-Foot]

Yeah, but her football team sucks, and they've only got one cheerleader.

[Mega-Foot]

And the boosters are getting disgruntled.

[Mega-Foot]

The natives are restless.

[golden arhat]

"whats all this BS about liberal and conservative no one is just one thing
for instance when it comes to crime i'm conservative ...when it comes to prostitution i'm liberal" -chris rock

[SanHeChuan]

If schools need more money, how come a stay at home Mom can educate her kids via Home schooling with almost no budget at all?

See my post.

The money for the schools isn't going to the schools, and even when it gets there they do stupid stuff with it. They need class rooms, books, and well paid teachers that's it.

The stay at home mom doesn't have 40 students per class.

[BoulderDawg]

The money for the schools isn't going to the schools, and even when it gets there they do stupid stuff with it. They need class rooms, books, and well paid teachers that's it.

I've never understood how throwing money at the educational system is going to magically improve it.

They need Class rooms? Really? What's wrong with the ones we have?

Books? I've never heard of a school system in the US that did not have books for students.

Pay the teachers more? And that's going to magically increase their skills.

We need to concentrate on what is being taught and take the politics (School prayer, bible study, other conservative distractions) out of the classroom.

Things I would spend money on:

Teachers assistants, Let's get someone in the classroom to help these teachers

Classes for parents on how you can improve your child's preformance

More Special Ed classes....Let's face it...There are kids out there so dumb they are never going to pass regular school....it's time we quit just passing these kids through the system and paid attention to their needs.

[Black Jack II]

Here is what happens in the land of nuts and bigger nuts when liberal progressives get there hands on kids in a school setting. BTW, this is Boulderdawg's neck of the woods, which as I believe Becca pointed out before, one of the most far left liberal cities in America.

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_5904322

Nice, telling kids to have sex and drugs, and here this guy is complaining about optional bible study in schools or prayer as a distraction. Get a grip dude. You should listen to the audio clip on this panel, this guy is a smuck, and whoever brought these people in should be fired.

[golden arhat]

whats wrong with sex ?
not everyone believes in abstinence
if u do thats your choice and its not your right to force it on other ppl
as long as its safe sex then thats fine

drugs are bad m'kay sos drink but kids are gonna do it anyway so why not educate them ?

bible study in school is bad unless ur gonna introduce dhammapada quoran and torah study aswell

prayer in school and the "under god" thing is also notgood


(btw under god and in god we trust were added in the 50s's to rally ppl against the atheist communist "enemy")

[Black Jack II]

whats wrong with sex ?

Nothing but try and stay on context with where the panel was.


if u do thats your choice and its not your right to force it on other ppl
as long as its safe sex then thats fine

Wrong again buckey. No public school should have a mandatory, sneak up on you, panel for kids telling them they should take drugs, masturbate and have sex because there going to anyway.

Totally undermines what morals and goals the parent is trying to set.


bible study in school is bad unless ur gonna introduce dhammapada quoran and torah study aswell

Any school that does have bible study, there are not many, makes it a after school optional get together, which I see nothing wrong with, for that matter with any religon.

[golden arhat]

Wrong again buckey. No public school should have a mandatory, sneak up on you, panel for kids telling them they should take drugs, masturbate and have sex because there going to anyway.

Totally undermines what morals and goals the parent is trying to set.


.

u think masturbation is wrong ?
u think kids dont do it ?
i do it
it feels good and doesnt hurt anyone
and everyone else that i know does it as well

not because ppl told them they should

and adolescents will have sex as well i have and loads of ppl i know have safe sex and enjoy our selves

it is ok to have sex and masturbate


drugs are bad so lets teach them about why they are bad instead of letting them experiment by themselves

[unkokusai]

We need more liberals in the schools. .

......................:eek: are you ****tin' me?




This would have never happened in an enlightened classroom.

Ok, stop what you are doing and smash yourself in the face with a brick for writing that.

[golden arhat]

......................:eek: are you ****tin' me?





Ok, stop what you are doing and smash yourself in the face with a brick for writing that.

interesting how u didnt say why

[unkokusai]

interesting how u didnt say why

Ok, because public schools, by and large, are loaded with liberals (one or two exceptions notwithstanding), and because preaching about "enlightened" classrooms is painfully pretentious. I didn't even mention how offensively presumptuous it was of him to add the "especially in the south" part, as if an entire region of our country was so backward and uncivilized that it cried out for some pretentious would-be carpet-bagger liberals to tell them how to think. Do schools in the north that impose all manner of ideological indoctrination on the left, regardless of what parents want, mean that the north 'needs' southerners to come instruct them in life? There are whack-jobs and extremists on all sides and unfortunately some of them want to force their ideas on the youngest and most impressionable while they are a captive audience, but the post I replied to was pretentious and unreasonable.

There. Happy now?

[unkokusai]

it is ok to have sex and masturbate

Its also ok to have self control and to act responsibly. Above all, its the families place to teach the morality of these things to children, not the public schools place to teach them that amorality is the only good.

[Fu-Pow]

Ok, because public schools, by and large, are loaded with liberals (one or two exceptions notwithstanding), and because preaching about "enlightened" classrooms is painfully pretentious. I didn't even mention how offensively presumptuous it was of him to add the "especially in the south" part, as if an entire region of our country was so backward and uncivilized that it cried out for some pretentious would-be carpet-bagger liberals to tell them how to think. Do schools in the north that impose all manner of ideological indoctrination on the left, regardless of what parents want, mean that the north 'needs' southerners to come instruct them in life? There are whack-jobs and extremists on all sides and unfortunately some of them want to force their ideas on the youngest and most impressionable while they are a captive audience, but the post I replied to was pretentious and unreasonable.

There. Happy now?


We should have let the South secede from the union and we all would have been better off. Although we'd probably have a hostile Southern neighbor.

FP

[unkokusai]

We should have let the South secede from the union and we all would have been better off.

That's either a poor joke, or just plain dumb.

[rogue]

We need to concentrate on what is being taught and take the politics (School prayer, bible study, other conservative distractions) out of the classroom.
And leave the liberal Earth first and Heather has Two Mommies who are Daddies? That blade cuts both ways.



My 5-point plan for un****ing the public school system:
Dang Merry, you really must want to **** off the teachers unions. Good plan by the way and I agree with it. Votech was a perfectly acceptable track when I was in high school and some of those guys earned a bigger paycheck than the guys who graduated college. These days they'd think you're retarded for opting for a trade rather than emptying mom and dad's nest egg going to school.

[SanHeChuan]

They need Class rooms? Really? What's wrong with the ones we have?

Books? I've never heard of a school system in the US that did not have books for students.

Pay the teachers more? And that's going to magically increase their skills.

Whats wrong with the classes we have? They are over crowded! Too many students for a teacher to attend their personal learning needs. You either keep up or get drug behind. More classroom equal less student per sq ft.

They have books, but sometime schools have old crappy books, and they need new good books. The kind that have the correct information and not some wives tale from 10 years ago.

Magically? No, but in time it will draw better educated and more qualified instructors. Also It would bring more teachers into the profession which would help with the student to teacher ratio.


We need to concentrate on what is being taught and take the politics (School prayer, bible study, other conservative distractions) out of the classroom.

Most of that crap never makes it into the school, except a few isolated exceptions. It's mostly just people whining about the possibilities. :rolleyes:


Things I would spend money on:

Teachers assistants, Let's get someone in the classroom to help these teachers

That sound like a good idea.


Classes for parents on how you can improve your child's preformance

Never going to happen, unless voluntary and then the only parents who would show would already be helping their kids.

Oh, and you spelled performance wrong. :p

Beside make a couple of semi valid points, your still a stupid for disagreeing with me! :eek:

[unkokusai]

they need new good books. The kind that have the correct information

Here come da Chairman!

[unkokusai]

Magically? No, but in time it will draw better educated and more qualified instructors.

No evidence of that being the case so far.

[Merryprankster]

Dang Merry, you really must want to **** off the teachers unions.

Sort of. I'm proposing a trade-off:

You want more money...ok, but your trade is that tenure goes bye-bye. If I'm giving you more money, then I have a right to protect that investment.

Tenure inhibits that.

Make tenure a privelege, not a right, awarded for consistent top performers, and limit it to a certain percentage (like you can only nominate the top .5% of the district teachers for tenure per year etc.) if you're going to use it at all.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Its also ok to have self control and to act responsibly. Above all, its the families place to teach the morality of these things to children, not the public schools place to teach them that amorality is the only good.

Reply]
Agreed, then the schools should STOP trying to teach thier versiosn of morality, and instead teach Math, Language and Sciences etc...

[Mega-Foot]

Yes, but this is a two-edged sword. We must teach them a set of morals, so they don't go about using their Math, Language, and Science irresponsibly. Maybe you guys don't know the damage a child armed with trigonometry can do. I live in a more visceral and rough part of the world than you do. I've seen it time and time again.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Maybe you guys don't know the damage a child armed with trigonometry can do.

Reply]
My Daughter is in Trigg now..trust me I see the lethal potential of that stuff!

[rogue]

You want more money...ok, but your trade is that tenure goes bye-bye. If I'm giving you more money, then I have a right to protect that investment.

Just like working anywhere else. Protecting every worker from being fired is where I think many unions have gone wrong.

I will say that so far I've been impressed by the teachers that my boys have had, they really are busting their humps trying to educate their students. Many have gone above and beyond what they had to do to help my kids learn, and for that I'm grateful. What burns me is that these people have to pay for class room supplies out of their own pockets. That's unacceptable to me, so my wife and I donate cash to the classroom with a match from my wifes company so they aren't burdened with an additional expense.


Agreed, then the schools should STOP trying to teach thier versiosn of morality,
But teachers should be teaching and reinforcing civil behavior in their class rooms. There is no excuse for a child to misbehave and not suffer consequences. What I've noticed is that the better teachers know how to give appropriate consequences in a timely fashion, the weaker teachers depend on sending the kid to the principle. One of the best things I ever heard was from my youngest who said his teacher was strict but fair. That speaks volumes about that teacher, and he's had more like that each school year.

[Merryprankster]

But teachers should be teaching and reinforcing civil behavior in their class rooms. There is no excuse for a child to misbehave and not suffer consequences. What I've noticed is that the better teachers know how to give appropriate consequences in a timely fashion, the weaker teachers depend on sending the kid to the principle. One of the best things I ever heard was from my youngest who said his teacher was strict but fair. That speaks volumes about that teacher, and he's had more like that each school year.


This sounds great, but have you ever encountered a parent who blames the teacher for the child's failure in grades and behavior? It makes teaching the cause and effect relationship for their behavior really freakin hard. You also need a principal who will back you up when things get hairy (ie, a screaming, bat**** looney, parent calls the school asking why the teacher hates her precious little douchebag offspring).

Oh, and GOD FORBID that there is a race issue involved.

One of my friends was threatened with a lawsuit there....

Of course, that all went away when the picture of his black father-in-law, mexican mother-in-law, mixed-race wife and kids showed up, LOL.

Comeuppance is a beautiful thing.

However, one thing I will agree with you on is that some people have a real gift for inspiring respect, and they seem to be able to handle anybody. In the absence of that god given talent, the following rules, which I have gleaned from years of dealing with 18 year olds applies:

1. The expectations are clear and not subject to varied interpretations.
2. The consequences are clear, progressive and enforced.
3. The above are available ahead of time and known by all.

[Mega-Foot]

Maybe you guys don't know the damage a child armed with trigonometry can do.

Reply]
My Daughter is in Trigg now..trust me I see the lethal potential of that stuff!

Just look what it did to Rwanda.

[rogue]

This sounds great, but have you ever encountered a parent who blames the teacher for the child's failure in grades and behavior? It makes teaching the cause and effect relationship for their behavior really freakin hard. You also need a principal who will back you up when things get hairy (ie, a screaming, bat**** looney, parent calls the school asking why the teacher hates her precious little douchebag offspring).

Cause and effect is important. We teach our boys that their freedom to do certain things is based on how much responsibility they show. If they act irresponsible bye bye being able to see those Friday night high school football games that are such important social events for their friends. Any privilege can be pulled at any time for bad behavior and we've exercised that option many times. It seems to work.

We're very tight with our kids teachers and principle in elementary school, though not so much with #1 son's middle school teachers. We've had several teachers open up how parents blame them for their kids bad behavior and bad grades. One neighbor had her kid moved from one of our favorite teacher's class because, I kid you not, her daughter wasn't being loved enough. This was the teacher that my son said was strict but fair.
I know my kids good points and bad points, and at the beginning of each school year we tell the teachers that there is nothing we don't know about our kids so if they act up to call us at work. So far the results have been excellent with both boys getting good grades and becoming well liked by their teachers. If a kid knows that mom and dad aren't going to excuse their bad behavior then usually that behavior will change.



However, one thing I will agree with you on is that some people have a real gift for inspiring respect, and they seem to be able to handle anybody. In the absence of that god given talent, the following rules, which I have gleaned from years of dealing with 18 year olds applies:

1. The expectations are clear and not subject to varied interpretations.
2. The consequences are clear, progressive and enforced.
3. The above are available ahead of time and known by all.

Good list. My youngest is a class clown, he also went through a period of anxiety over getting left back even though he had straight A's and B's. Let's just say because of his anxiety he had more than a few lunches with the principle. When this was going on I found that taking something away from him did little to change his behavior, but making him do something as simple as writing 100X "I will not do X to Y", worked wonders. His current teacher hands out president cards for inappropriate classroom behavior. A president card is a 9 paragraph biography of one of the US presidents, and the child has to copy it word for word and turn it in the next morning. It takes time, it takes effort to write and it also forces the kid to learn something. I love old school punishments.:cool:

One other thing, I've noticed some kids behave better in school than at home. I wonder why?

[BoulderDawg]

Oh, and GOD FORBID that there is a race issue involved.

One of my friends was threatened with a lawsuit there....

Of course, that all went away when the picture of his black father-in-law, mexican mother-in-law, mixed-race wife and kids showed up, LOL.

That doesn't mean anything. Some of the most brutal, violent cops that patrol the black community are black themselves. Also look at Clarence Thomas and Condi Rice. These people look down on and discriminate upon their own people. Same goes for people who marry different races. It doesn't mean you can't discriminate against others.

[unkokusai]

Also look at Clarence Thomas and Condi Rice. These people look down on and discriminate upon their own people. .



Bull****. Unsubstantiated lefty propaganda.

[Leto]

Communism didn't work as a method of governing nations, not because its concept is wrong or evil, but because the way it was implemented was all wrong. It's a method of government that realistically can only be applied to small, self sufficient communities. The governments that called themselves communist were actually despotic dictatorships, for the most part. The only way communism would work on a large scale was if everyone in the world worked together to make sure everyone had enough. Not just everyone in one country, not just everyone of a certain race or religion...every single person and thing in the world was shared, and everyone in the world worked and did their part to make sure the community succeeded. This would require that everyone genuinely understood and cared for all others, and that no one desired to possess things. This would be absolute freedom, At this time, this is an idealistic fantasy, of course. Most people would say this is impossible, due to how they perceive human nature.

I'm someone who would stand behind the "live free or die" banner. I don't need a heavy handed government controlling every aspect of life. The problem is, big business has gotten out of control. I don't need every aspect of my life controlled by corporations and banks either, who get out of control without government limits. Unfortunately, government and big business are pretty much the same thing now. Don't need any of it...conservative, liberal, republican, democrat...corporate.
I would love to live in a small, self sufficient community, where everyone worked together in harmony with eachother and nature. Don't need any government regulating anything, don't need any loans or financing or advertising. Only need for everyone involved to be "enlightened", as they say. Not being selfish, not desiring to possess things that others have, loving life, working hard, and genuinely desiring to be in harmony with everyone else, for the benefit of all.

Except for parents who are highly educated and can do it themselves, the education of children relies on the whole community. What is the community which is teaching our children in the USA right now? What are its values and objectives? It seems like the overriding objective which guides everything is the attainment of wealth. Who makes the books that teachers use for curriculum? Who benefits from having so many people undereducated and without developed abilities of critical thought? Who benefits from keeping people reliant upon the current system of consumerism?

I would like to believe that the majority of people directly involved in education, the teachers and principles, are people who care about the children and want to provide the best eduaction possible. They need help, there need to be more teachers with greater levels of education, more modern teaching aids, more and better classrooms. Being an educator shouldn't be something you fall into if you give up on other endeavors...it should be something people aspire to be worthy of. The people who educate our children should be only the most trustworthy and balanced people. They need to exhibit the characteristics that we want our children to emulate. For me, being unbiased, and capable of viewing and expressing ideas from all points of view is one of the most important characteristics a teacher should have. This is a very big part of helping children to think critically, to be able to use their own minds to be their own people. Many parents do enough to indoctrinate their children with their own "correct" point of view...the community needs to provide balance and reason.
Talking about politics in school is appropriate in civics class, as a way of observing how the government works. Teachers of other subjects should keep their views to themselves, and stick with their subject. Religion discussion is appropriate in a history or social studies class, as an acedemic subject, but personal beliefs don't belong in general education. That's the domain of families and churches, not government sponsored schools.
Our very youngest children should learn about sharing, cooperating with others, and learning how to problem solve...they don't need to be indoctrinated with religious and political views.

[Merryprankster]

That doesn't mean anything. Some of the most brutal, violent cops that patrol the black community are black themselves. Also look at Clarence Thomas and Condi Rice. These people look down on and discriminate upon their own people. Same goes for people who marry different races. It doesn't mean you can't discriminate against others.

Dude, you have to be about the most retarded person on the planet to think that a white guy married to a half-black, half-mexican woman is a racist.

As far as self-hating/self-loathing goes, totally different issue.

[Mas Judt]

Give me an example with factual back up of Condi Rice or Clarence Thomas exhibting racist or oppressive behavior. (Unless you consider all people to be treated equally under the law oppressive.. :rolleyes: )

[rogue]

Also look at Clarence Thomas and Condi Rice. These people look down on and discriminate upon their own people. Same goes for people who marry different races.

Would Bill Cosby be considered self-loathing or just someone who believes that a people can and should be doing more to better their lives? And couldn't white folks also suffer from self-loathing?

[rogue]

Anybody up for a little liberalism in the classroom?
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=f7806f79-bf1f-4bd1-8d33-c904feb71047

[BoulderDawg]

Dude, you have to be about the most retarded person on the planet to think that a white guy married to a half-black, half-mexican woman is a racist.

If I'm head of a school board and a serious charge of racism has been made against one of my teachers the very first thing I'm going to do is take it seriously and treat everyone involved with respect. The next I'll do is talk with everyone involved to try to get as much factual information as I can.

If you've been accused of racism I'm going to ask you to give me your side of the story. If when I say this you start dragging out pictures of your wife(while giving me a version of the above statement) I'm just going to lean back in my chair, close my eyes.....and inwardly groan. I'm then going to suspend you from teaching until the mess is straightened out.

You don't have to be wearing sheets and burning crosses in the classroom to be a racist.

[BoulderDawg]

Anybody up for a little liberalism in the classroom?
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=f7806f79-bf1f-4bd1-8d33-c904feb71047

How can any science movie be considered liberal or conservative? I don't get it? Are we next going to have parents complaining that a movie about bears (or something else) will be political.

[SanHeChuan]

Because It's not science. Half of the FACTS of the movie are straight up lies. It politics pretending to be science.


Among other things, since the film's release last year, scientists have rejected Mr. Gore's claims that 2005 was the warmest year on record (temperatures have been receding since 1998), that polar bears are heading for extinction (their numbers are growing), that Antarctica is warming (interior temperature readings show cooling) and that sea levels will "rise 18 to 20 feet," swamping coastal cities (the International Panel on Climate Change predicts a few inches).

[unkokusai]

Communism didn't work as a method of governing nations, not because its concept is wrong or evil.



Yes it is. The idea is incompatible with human nature and every attempt to force it on people has resulted in loss of freedom and the deaths of millions.

[unkokusai]

You don't have to be wearing sheets and burning crosses in the classroom to be a racist.

No, you just have to have committed the crime of not being 'liberal' enough.

[Merryprankster]

I'm then going to suspend you from teaching until the mess is straightened out.

I'm going to guess then, that you have no leadership experience. You just told that teacher, and everybody that works for you, that you will presume they are guilty.

The RIGHT response is to investigate it seriously, and leave the teacher on duty while transfering the student to another class. If the parent *****es, you simply say that nothing has been proven yet and that you will not presume guilt on such a serious charge.

Secondly, by suspending them you've attached the stink of poor conduct to them. NICE WORK! Even if the accusations are baseless you've successfully managed to professionally and socially cripple them in the community!

About the only situation(s) that I could think of that might warrant immediate suspension pending investigation is sexual assault or physical assault of a student (and I think every teacher would agree with that), since safety of the students comes first.

And while I will cede that it is not IMPOSSIBLE for a white racist to marry a half-black, half-mexican woman, you have to admit the probability is pretty darn low.

Finally, where did I say that was his ONLY defense? It was just one more piece of the pie.

Incidentally, the parent in question pursed her lips when he pointed out the pictures on the desk, said "they aren't black," and left without a word.

[FuXnDajenariht]

We should have let the South secede from the union and we all would have been better off. Although we'd probably have a hostile Southern neighbor.

FP


are you kiddin? southern chicks are haaawt! i love a nice Georgia peach. and the accent.....good lord.... :D

[FuXnDajenariht]

Anybody up for a little liberalism in the classroom?
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=f7806f79-bf1f-4bd1-8d33-c904feb71047

eco friendly courier firms and ethanol producers sponsor screenings?

sounds like the work of corporate oppportunists than liberals....

[Black Jack II]

Condi Rice

Suprised he did not use the word uncle tom......:rolleyes:

[Leto]

You can't force communism on people, that's the whole point. When you try to, it's tyranny, despotism, not communism. That's what the Soviet Union was.
It's living completely in harmony with you fellow man. That was the original appeal to all those people who revolted against their old governments...they promised that everyone would be treated as equals, that no one would go hungry, that no one would suffer or be lacking. It ended up being that everyone was hungry and lacking, and basically treated as slaves to the corrupt government, who's only concern was competing with capitalism and conquering territory. The whole idea of the "commune" is that it is self contained, not needing to compete for resources, providing everthing it needs for itself.
It's a beautiful concept that won't happen on a large scale until most everyone in the world wants to live that way. It's not a way of living that is compatible with hatred, war, aggression, violence, or selfishness. That would be "heaven on earth", where there is no more war, everyone has everything they need, and everyone is satisfied to live in harmony. Everyone has everything they want, because people are "enlightened" enough not to want too many material things. Most people probably believe this can never happen. That's fine.

That certainly isn't ever going to happen if we keep teaching our children that it is correct for them to desire so many worthless material possessions, that life is about fighting and competing for things, that the way to be happy is to collect as much stuff as you want, without regard for anyone or anything else. That the only way to get this "stuff" is to take it from people who aren't as "good" as you.
Without ever saying it, that is how people indoctrinate their children, because these beliefs are firmly implanted in themselves, and their parents, and so forth. It is not human nature...it is just how people have been living for a long time, as long as anyone can remember. If the world is really going to change and become a better place, this indoctrination has got to stop, and children need to be taught a better way of thinking about life in general. We, as a whole, have all the knowledge and resources we need to overcome almost all the issues the world faces right now. The folks in charge just need to be willing to let go of some of their precious "stuff" for the good of the earth and all humanity. Hopefully when our children, or our children's children become the ones in charge, they will be more "enlightened".

[rogue]

I'm going to guess then, that you have no leadership experience. You just told that teacher, and everybody that works for you, that you will presume they are guilty.
I was told by one of my kids principles that one of his main priorities were his teachers and staff. While I can say that he didn't back them blindly, he did make clear that he had to back them up first. It makes sense since you don't want a bunch of unhappy staff and a school with a lot of turnover in teachers.


About the only situation(s) that I could think of that might warrant immediate suspension pending investigation is sexual assault or physical assault of a student (and I think every teacher would agree with that), since safety of the students comes first.

Even as a parent I'd say the safety of the teacher is also a priority, it's even in the student handbook. A friend of mine who is a high school teacher is teaching other teachers self defense that they can use and still be within the county guidelines. Over the school year even the more liberal teachers have been in regular attendance as there were two incidents on the campus. A school should be safe for the students and staff.

[Merryprankster]

Even as a parent I'd say the safety of the teacher is also a priority,

Concur. I didn't mean to suggest that a teacher's safety wasn't important.

[Black Jack II]

That certainly isn't ever going to happen if we keep teaching our children that it is correct for them to desire so many worthless material possessions, that life is about fighting and competing for things, that the way to be happy is to collect as much stuff as you want, without regard for anyone or anything else. That the only way to get this "stuff" is to take it from people who aren't as "good" as you.

This is utter claptrap garbage. It is a excellent thing to teach your kids that life is about fighting and competing for the things you want. It's presumptuous to think everyone has to be the same and as good as each other.

I can't stand this kind of communism bullsh!t. It's so weak.

[unkokusai]

It's a beautiful concept .

No, its not. Its an abomination on the order of "wouldn't it be sweet if a human could give birth to puppies?" Humans don't work that way, and the demented fantasies of idiots won't change that fact.

[unkokusai]

I was told by one of my kids principles that one of his main priorities were his teachers and staff. While I can say that he didn't back them blindly, he did make clear that he had to back them up first. It makes sense since you don't want a bunch of unhappy staff and a school with a lot of turnover in teachers.




That principal should be fired (and beaten in the town square).

[Leto]

*lol* true, beauty is relative. Some people just like to fight!

"Because he does not compete,
He does not meet competition."

"What others teach, I also teach; that is:
"A violent man will die a violent death!"
This will be the essence of my teaching." - Lao Tzu

[unkokusai]

*lol* true, beauty is relative.

But stupid is universal.

[Black Jack II]

But stupid is universal.

LOL.

Here are some of your sweet communist buddies for ya. Most people don't even know about the 1994 fire in China. I guess not everyone is equal huh?:rolleyes:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article1752202.ece

[rogue]

That principal should be fired (and beaten in the town square).

I don't believe so at all. If a principle is going to side with the kids and their parents then you'd essentially have teachers under attack and on their own with no advocate for them in the school. We had many dealings with this same principle when one of our sons had a very rocky start in kindergarten, and he went to the mat for us several times, so it's not like he builds a wall between the teachers and parents. He even went so far as to make sure that my son was put with certain teachers who would give him the discipline and guidance that he needed at the time.
We owe that principle and his staff a huge debt for helping straighten out my son by being creative with their approach to helping him and actually caring about him.

[Leto]

What did I say? communism doesn't work when everyone doesn't genuinely care about others as themselves. communist governments are not really communism (just like our government isn't truly democracy). It's an ideal that does not, and maybe cannot exist in the world as it is right now. This doesn't mean we shouldn't desire to be the best people we can be, and wish the best for all people, and the whole world. Wish for everyone to have peace and happiness, for suffering everywhere to be eased. Anyway, I wish for this.

Don't think about the word "communism". It's just a word. What's important is being responsible and understanding that we are all connected. This is probably the most important thing that all children, all people, need to learn. It doesn't need to have a name or an "ism" or a religion attached to it...it's the most basic truth of the universe.

"Surrender yourself humbly; then you can be trusted to care for all things.
Love the world as your own self; then you can truly care for all things." -Lao Tzu

[FuXnDajenariht]

omg we're seriously not gonna do the whole communism is evil thing again are we? thats so last century.... Leto has a good point. whos to say what is and isn't human nature? society has and always will evolve.

i thought we were atleast more educated on the subject than our propoganda-fed parents.

[golden arhat]

LOL.

Here are some of your sweet communist buddies for ya. Most people don't even know about the 1994 fire in China. I guess not everyone is equal huh?:rolleyes:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article1752202.ece

as he explained before he was not talking about china or the former union of soviet socialist republics
he was talking about communism and socialism "the concept" even if it isn't perfect its still completely seperate from what u are thinking of or citing

lol funny how u use a brittish newspaper tho thanx for not using the daily mail as well

[rogue]

omg we're seriously not gonna do the whole communism is evil thing again are we? thats so last century.... Leto has a good point. whos to say what is and isn't human nature? society has and always will evolve.

Same sheet, different day. Societies come and societies go, and that's a constant. For every "enlightened" society there are a bunch more who can be considered barbarians who want to tear it down. Conflict is part of human nature, get used to it.


i thought we were atleast more educated on the subject than our propoganda-fed parents.
You'll always think that way until you get some kid saying the same thing about you.:p

[Merryprankster]

That principal should be fired (and beaten in the town square).

Totally disagree. One of the principals top priorities should ALWAYS be the teachers and staff. You can't attract and retain good talent if you make it clear that you view them as expendible.

[unkokusai]

I don't believe so at all.


If a principal's first, last, and middle concern isn't the welfare of the kids in the school then he/she has no business being there.

[Merryprankster]

Ok. And part of that is ensuring that he earns the respect and trust of his most valuable assets in that endeavor...

his teachers and staff.

[rogue]

At least he'll have the children and the parents, and we all know that all parents have a reasonable idea of what's good for their little angels.

[FuXnDajenariht]

Same sheet, different day. Societies come and societies go, and that's a constant. For every "enlightened" society there are a bunch more who can be considered barbarians who want to tear it down. Conflict is part of human nature, get used to it.

yes but you read history. so you can see the progression that we have from 10,000 years ago. most could argue we're still a sorry excuse for civilization (prolly the lil green men lookin down on us ;) ) but we are what we are. who knows what the future will bring. the Royal families fo the world also thought us simpleminds would never be ready for democracy either. so im not gonna let the government in the same situation feed me their view of our future potential reality. 'will and way baby....



You'll always think that way until you get some kid saying the same thing about you.:p

theres some kid saying that about me? point him out so i can set the lil punk straight. :D

[BoulderDawg]

All I have to say that is if a school's primary concern is keeping everyone safe then they're not doing their job.

I saw this thing on the web where a group of male teachers had been attacked by students (One was even attacked by a female student).......Give me a break. Sure they are some badass strong teens out there but the majority would fold up like a cheap tent in the wind. When I was substituting I never felt I was unsafe around any student. However if one decided to attack me I would worry about him being a minor after I had him on the floor with a broken arm.:D

Schools are for teaching......Any behavior problems should not be dealt with in the classroom.

[Merryprankster]

Sure they are some badass strong teens out there but the majority would fold up like a cheap tent in the wind. When I was substituting I never felt I was unsafe around any student. However if one decided to attack me I would worry about him being a minor after I had him on the floor with a broken arm.


1. Did you sub in a disadvantaged/violent area? These are the schools most in need of help, and they don't have cops and metal detectors for no reason.

2. Teachers are often afraid to fight back due to liability (and principals who won't back them up).

[@PLUGO]

Back when I was in 9th grade a sub got into a fight with one of the shools trouble makers. He got fired (of course) while the kid got in-school-suspension. About a week later Mr. Wicks (the Sub) came back dressed in his army reserves gear and rifle.

He shot the kid in the stomach, the Principle in the face and after holding 2 classes hostage until about 3:AM, he shot himself in the head.

His last words were a recomendation to read The Catcher in the Rye.