Fighting a south-paw from the orthodox position

[Ben Gash]

I was sparring tonight, and my opponent fought from a southpaw position. This would not usually be a problem, as after years of Kung Fu I'm fairly adept at fighting from southpaw myself, but I'd started from an orthodox position, and didn't really want to switch. The reason I'd taken the orthodox position to start with is that my opponent was a very good grappler, and I'm a firm believer in "fight a wrestler, wrestle a fighter". As the orthodox posture allows you to control a large area of space in front of you, and allows you to keep out the way more, I like it for fighting wrestlers.
Therefore I had to adapt to fighting in opposed postures, which I found really difficult. What strategies do you guys utilise in this situation?

[TenTigers]

close in, leading with strikes to infighting range-and face him more square.

[Merryprankster]

Ummmm

You just told a dude who was fighting a wrestler to infight and square up.

Huh?

[ngokfei]

This Should Be Moved To The Mma Area;)

[omarthefish]

Therefore I had to adapt to fighting in opposed postures, which I found really difficult. What strategies do you guys utilise in this situation?

Advance to his right (your left). Just baby steps. Try to keep shuffling just slightly to his blind side.

How's the height differential. I'd tend to want to keep my lead (left) just a bit above and to the outside of his.

The idea with this is to keep his rear hand and leg out of the equation. The open stance simplifies your shot/takedown defense too but I realize now after standing up and feeling it out that that's why you keep the orthodox vs. southpaw with the wrestler. It forces him to focus on your left leg as the right leg is just too far away. In a "regular" match up (both orthodox or both southpaw) he could shoot for either leg or both in succession.

Anyways, just keep circling to the outside but not too much. I think it works better when you do it just enough to make him uncomfortable. Take the big step only when you think you have his timing nailed and want to seriously outflank and attack.

That's my read on it anyways.

[golden arhat]

fight like i fight when i'm fighting someone with a big advantage

fight like a wild animal

and be completely unpredictable

i tend to switch from a tidy conservative approach to the approach mentioned above as is applicable

[bodhitree]

Always circle away from the powerside. Move towards his right/your left.

Jab Jab Jab. Circle to your left and jab.

[Becca]

Always circle away from the powerside. Move towards his right/your left.

Jab Jab Jab. Circle to your left and jab.

I've had succes circling tward the powerside. You gotta be ready for a takedown, but if your decent on your off-side sprawls, that isn't too big of a problem. But most expect you to circle away, so when you go the other way.... you get some hasty reactions and they may allow you to get further into thier dangerzone whith out them being aware you are close enough to hurn them. To a migit like me, that's a good thing. 'Course I eat alot of punches to the head, too. :D

[SevenStar]

I've had succes circling tward the powerside. You gotta be ready for a takedown, but if your decent on your off-side sprawls, that isn't too big of a problem. But most expect you to circle away, so when you go the other way.... you get some hasty reactions and they may allow you to get further into thier dangerzone whith out them being aware you are close enough to hurn them. To a migit like me, that's a good thing. 'Course I eat alot of punches to the head, too. :D

it's more than just a takedown. When you circle that direction, you are circling INTO my cross and my rear leg roundhouse - two very powerful strikes off of the power side of the body, AND the momentum of you moving yourself in that direction.

That said, you can do it, but it's nowhere near as safe.

[SevenStar]

nobody has mentioned foot placement at all... keep your lead foot outside of his lead foot.

[Becca]

it's more than just a takedown. When you circle that direction, you are circling INTO my cross and my rear leg roundhouse - two very powerful strikes off of the power side of the body, AND the momentum of you moving yourself in that direction.

That said, you can do it, but it's nowhere near as safe.

Hey, I owned up to eating alot of punches. The kicks I can nuetralize by closing the gap, but the punches and elbows will get you is you're too slow.

[Becca]

nobody has mentioned foot placement at all... keep your lead foot outside of his lead foot.

I assumed most would know that you lead is outside of thier lead? Or it wouldn't be "outside" but rather "inside". That's one of the foundations of footwork in TCMA...:confused:

[Black Jack II]

Jab?

On a southpaw, even more so if you have not that much experiance fighting a south paw, a jab does not always work as intended.

Stick with your big right down the middle.

[David Jamieson]

geez.

just look for the open gate and put your stuff in there.

think too much and you'll get blasted.

train to hit, train to be hit. try to hit more often than you get hit.

[SevenStar]

I assumed most would know that you lead is outside of thier lead? Or it wouldn't be "outside" but rather "inside". That's one of the foundations of footwork in TCMA...:confused:

no, not inside... you want it outside. by having it outside you cut off his hook, but leave yours. you also have your cross lined up and your footwork isn't confined.

[Becca]

um........... Did you read my post? Or are you just that used to us disagreeing that it was automatic? ;) :D

[omarthefish]

post#10

nobody has mentioned foot placement at all... keep your lead foot outside of his lead foot.

post#5

Advance to his right (your left). Just baby steps. Try to keep shuffling just slightly to his blind side.

....snip....

Anyways, just keep circling to the outside but not too much. I think it works better when you do it just enough to make him uncomfortable. Take the big step only when you think you have his timing nailed and want to seriously outflank and attack.

That's my read on it anyways.

Just sayin' ;)

[omarthefish]

geez.

just look for the open gate and put your stuff in there.

think too much and you'll get blasted.

train to hit, train to be hit. try to hit more often than you get hit.

Still though, doesn't hurt to have a plan, especially in sport fighting which is what this is. Think a serious MA'ist should be proposing these sorts of questions to himself all the time. Deconstructing potential opponents is what you DO with your spare time. I do it constantly.

How do I deal with (fill in the blank)?

Some strategies DO work better than others for specific scenarios. If it's a street scuffle and you don't know anything about your opponent that's one thing but if you actually have the luxury of a little recon, you'd be a fool not to take advantage of it. Heck, after a while you can collect a lot of info on your opponent just from a glance at how they "put up their dukes". :D

[nospam]

Ya I agree with Mr. D-Jam - step up and get to it. I admit it takes a little getting used to but if you spend your time bouncing around or pusssy-footing about then you are 'telegraphing' your insecurity and lack of confidence.

Albeit, in-kwoon sparring is the place to learn this and become comfortable.

When tournament sparring I used to jump up and switch sides to muddle my opponent and it worked. I'd flip positions twice then on the third 'flip' I'd attack, capitalising on their hesitation. I wouldn't do that outside the kwoon or tournaments though as I'd rather just step up and get to it (oh and of course get taken down by the all UBER MMAist). :D

nospam
:cool:

[Yum Cha]

geez.

just look for the open gate and put your stuff in there.

think too much and you'll get blasted.

train to hit, train to be hit. try to hit more often than you get hit.

Good on ya DJ.

Its all about creating and taking the opening.

My personal favorite is to switch side to side from the outside, and changing my circling, (while bobing to avoid a jab, and staying low to deter a takedown), which eventually catches on with the opponent, who begins switching to meet my switches, and I attack on their switch with whatever presents itself.

I see Nospam agrees.

Very few indeed don't sucomb to the power of suggestion generated by the constant switching and switch themselves. First clue as to how skilled your opponent is.

If the opponent becomes couragous, and maybe tags me a couple, I'll fall back and leave a false opening to my strong techniques to lure them in as they ride on their confidence, which often means they adventure away from their strengths.

It does come under the unpredictable banner, I suppose.

With an orthodox "en guard" hand configuration, right or left, pushing (bridging) the lead hand over the trailing hand helps too, if you have short hand skills.

The issue to me is not how to fight a right or left handed fighter, but how to break a fighter out of his game into yours.

[SevenStar]

post#10


post#5


Just sayin' ;)

I did see that one - but it implied the foot being outside, didn't actually say it. :p

[SevenStar]

I assumed most would know that you lead is outside of thier lead? Or it wouldn't be "outside" but rather "inside". That's one of the foundations of footwork in TCMA...:confused:

no, I disagreed because of this post. Unless I am misreading it, this is backward.

[lkfmdc]

close in, leading with strikes to infighting range-and face him more square.


Jab Jab Jab.


it wouldn't be "outside" but rather "inside". That's one of the foundations of footwork in TCMA...

Dear lord, some truly bad advice and NONE of the standard advice that is given in regards to fighting a south paw :eek:

1. You always want your foot on the OUTSIDE of the soutpaw

2. Your punches of choice are right lead and left HOOK

3. You NEVER square off in a fight, especially against a wrestler

4. INfighting is much harder vs a southpaw because you can't "fit inside" their stance. You are better off "turning them" into your strikes on the outside

This thread should be linked to the "downfall of TMA" thread :rolleyes:

[Becca]

You said:


l... keep your lead foot outside of his lead foot.

I replyed:


I assumed most would know that you lead is outside of thier lead? Or it wouldn't be "outside" but rather "inside".

Does it help haveing them side by side?

[TenTigers]

these guys are definately orthodox fighters, can't really tell which one is southpaw, though...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=cb1fJfxeO80

[SevenStar]

Does it help haveing them side by side?

not sure what you're asking... are you wondering if it helps to have you foot side by side with his?

[Yum Cha]

Dear lord, some truly bad advice and NONE of the standard advice that is given in regards to fighting a south paw :eek:

1. You always want your foot on the OUTSIDE of the soutpaw

2. Your punches of choice are right lead and left HOOK

3. You NEVER square off in a fight, especially against a wrestler

4. INfighting is much harder vs a southpaw because you can't "fit inside" their stance. You are better off "turning them" into your strikes on the outside

This thread should be linked to the "downfall of TMA" thread :rolleyes:

With resprect to you and your experience:

Point 2 - are you saying "fight southpaw?" Fight their fight?
Point 3 - Never square off, big call. Could you elaborate?

Also, the question concerns a southpaw, not a wrestler, however, you always have to assume these days, etc, etc, yea OK.

[omarthefish]

I did see that one - but it implied the foot being outside, didn't actually say it. :p

Fair enough.

[SevenStar]

With resprect to you and your experience:

Point 2 - are you saying "fight southpaw?" Fight their fight?

vs a southpaw the jab is a bad technique. keeping your foot outside of his lines up your straight and also puts you in a better position to throw the hook, as you are coming right outside or over his lead. jab vs jab, the southpaw has the advantage. you have to kill him with rights and hooks.


Point 3 - Never square off, big call. Could you elaborate?

when you are perfectly square to your opponent, you make a lot more targets available to him. BUT, in this instance, we are talking about a grappler. Squaring up upens you up for a plethora of takedowns.

[Yum Cha]

vs a southpaw the jab is a bad technique. keeping your foot outside of his lines up your straight and also puts you in a better position to throw the hook, as you are coming right outside or over his lead. jab vs jab, the southpaw has the advantage. you have to kill him with rights and hooks.



when you are perfectly square to your opponent, you make a lot more targets available to him. BUT, in this instance, we are talking about a grappler. Squaring up upens you up for a plethora of takedowns.

I take the point about the southpaw having an advantage, jab to jab, given that they are always facing conventional, while conventional rarely faces southpaw. I regularly spar a southpaw, and find like most opponents, the best practice is to get them off their game onto yours. I'll see how it works with rights and hooks. I've found success by folding his leading right back across his body, jamming his left, and coming in hard, or sliding around counter-clockwise for a rear choke. I tend to hang onto people once I make contact, which hampers their balance and footwork if they are trying to box.

Squaring off. I find the bigger guy has more advantage squaring off, especially if they can fight well with both hands and have some intimidation factor (I'm 6 foot, 225lbs). As for the takedown issue, most wrestlers face off against eachother squared off, don't they? Crouched, arms in front? I've found most wrestlers want to stand you up, like a conventional boxer. One of the skills for squaring off is to switch leading legs, like a simple Ali shuffle.

BJJ teaches you to keep your arms in, elbows in, arms slightly bent hands forward. Not to different to the Hakka arts IMHO.

Anyway, thanks for the comments.

[TenTigers]

in close fighting, giving one side or the other allows your opponent to know your blind side. "Squaring off" allows both hands to be at equal length, allows you to turn,shift,switch, step,and move from one side to the other, similar to how one recieves a serve in tennis. It allows you to use both hands equal for sticking, trapping,striking, grappling. It allows a shoot or a sprawl from either side.
Squaring off does not mean standing perfectly square, btw, but more akin to Muay Thai,Boxers,Hakka Kuen,wrestlers,etc. This allows you to not fight their fight.
This also does not mean to do this from outside, where you are giving a target. This means when you are already inside. It also does not mean you are standing eye to eye and slugging it out. You move to side to side, but you have more options open.
of course, I might be totally wrong, and that's fine. This is simply an exchange of ideas. I am here to learn as well. Pick it apart, so I can see your side.
I also started out fighting southpaw, cuz I didn't know any better,and when I boxed as a "youte", I switched up. That, and Hung-Ga, Wing Chun, Hakka Kuen, etc are all ambidextrous,so now I'm totally confused anyway.;)
I was also a big fan of John Natividad, whose claim to fame was that he was equally fearsome righty or lefty, and would switch up at will.

[Becca]

not sure what you're asking... are you wondering if it helps to have you foot side by side with his?

No. I am remebering why I don't debate with you. Your reading comrehension is directly proportional to how much you want to mis understand.:rolleyes:

I concede; It ain't worth debating with you.