Seni 2007

[Nick Forrer]

Hi all

Quick report on SENI 2007

About the show: This is the largest martial arts show in the UK. It is held once a year, over a weekend, typically in the midlands but this year moved to Docklands in East London

It features demos, competitions, an MMA show, Many stalls, seminars etc.

Im not sure how many people attended in total but it was packed especially on the saturday.


About my time there:

Saturday attended the first UK HFY workshop given by Benny Meng. Having bought the book mastering wing chun and being curious about it this was a chance for me to see the system in action. Benny gave a very logical breakdown of the HFY formula which addressed issues like combat ranges, hand positioning, entering strategy, gates and how to respond to your opponents pressure once in contact.

He also demoed the first section of their SLT and talked a bit about the HFY view of wc history, commenting on how he felt wing chun was based on ancient spear fighting methods.

There was also a little dan chi sau demoed. It was a shame he only had 2 hours to show his stuff but cest la vie.

I then spent the rest of the day looking round and bumping into lots of wing chun people: Some of the people there included Gary Mackensie, Kevin Chan, Alan Gibson, Alan Orr etc.

Other well known MA people included Rick Young, Mick Coup, Ernesto Hoost, Ian Freeman, Mike Bisping, Anderson Silva, Roger Gracie, Braulio Estima etc.

Got the chance to chi sau with some people including Stricker on this forum, some of Alan Gibsons guys and some guys I met at the leicester seminar (form Warrington I think).

There were lots of MArts represented there but oddly no systema (I say odd as this seems to be an art on the rise in the UK.)

All in all a great weekend.

[JPinAZ]

Sounds like a really good event! Seems like there were a lot of big names there - sucks I live on the other side of the pond, it would have been interesting to see.
Hopefully some others that showed up will post thier experiences!

[stricker]

like nick said its a pretty cool show. a few things nick missed out :

drago doing his 20kg dumbell overhead press challenge, some VERY good amateur boxing,
a full thai boxing show which was pretty good on the saturday and a big k1 tournament on sunday night, bjj tournaments both days, some cool capoeira on display, all sorts...

while it was martial arts fetishists heaven with all the nunchucks, samurai swords and bruce lee memorabilia, it did get kinda boring after a while, once you've been round all the stands and tried on all the gloves.

so, on to the good stuff :D

nick and i see very much eye to eye on a lot of things martial arts, but he's a good few years ahead of me on the journey... we did some chi sao which was kindof a blast from the past ... anyway what got me wasn't that he handed me my ass (that wouldnt be a big deal at all), but [I]how he did it. the chi sao 'methods' he employed and the supporting body structure made a big difference from last time i met nick.

its a wierd feeling, even if your not actually being hit, someone else is controlling your center of gravity, almost makes you feel like a puppet and someone else is pulling the strings...

it wasnt exactly new to me as ive met people before with a similar skill set, but i was really impressed nick had developed these skills in a relatively short time (although im sure his wing chun was already pretty good...)

next up i met alan orr. not a lot to say really, a similar experience to chi-saoing with nick, i got blown out the water, not a big deal. he held back somewhat on the how, but then nick and i have some prior context to talking about this stuff...

anyway, i HIGHLY recommend anyone to go get a feel of alan and his lot. for anyone whos a wing chunner maybe intimidated by the whole 'NHB' thing, dont be, just go with an open mind and feel his chi sao. the cool thing is they can control you without hitting, so it needn't turn into an ego challenge. you'll know when you feel off-balance and out of control ;) for anyone who things they're just wrestlers or boxers, again, go FEEL their chi sao. words dont mean ****. but... as always these things need honesty and a true open mind and open heart. hard to come by :cool:

even if you just walk away not 'converted' you havent lost anything, just experienced something different :)

[Nick Forrer]

Hey Stricker

Cheers for filling in some of the other details...how could I forget about the cool capoeria:)

Thanks for the positive feedback mate...as you say no substitute for direct experience...the use of the correct body structure and chi sau methods has really accelerated my learning in the last 7 months...only took me 8 years to get on the right track with wing chun:eek:

[Gooseman]

Nick.

Great acolade for Alans structure system.
I would love to be able to visit your class sometime, when I am in London.
Which one of Alans dvd's would be the best to work from, I have just been made redundant and have a limited amount to spend and would like to target the most poignant one for structure development.

Just out of interest what is Steve Morris's take on CSLWC structure method?
Have you demo'd it to him? If he endorses it then that would be amazing.
One of my pals has done much training with Steve, and he hits like a tank.
But, his method seems very different to what is perceived as wing chun/tsun etc.

Regards.
Steve Gooseman.

[Nick Forrer]

Hi Steve

I have done a very *small* bit of chi sau/pak da with steve morris...he knows i am a wing chun guy but he has never asked me about it and it is not my place to show someone of steves level what a junior like me can do (which against someone like him is very little)

I would say steves chi sau skill (in the widest sense of the term) is very good but it is a product of many years training in CMA, JMA, TMA and FMA plus wrestling (e.g hand fighting bicep ties pummeling etc.). It is not just wing chun that has chi sau after all. Steve is very good at *picking up* the hand and working off it (he told me he used to tie a sharp knife to the end of a towel and work his twists and ties on it, avoiding cutting himself whilst doing it).

Steves NHB body structure works off a shoulder knee vertical alignment rather than a shoulder hip alighnment...this makes it quicker to level change and gives him more reach to hit and tie up. In this way it is different to wing chun. That said when in close then steves hips do come in (e.g. to defend the guillotine by posturing up, to turn the corner, to suplex, to body lock etc....)so it is not like they are always back or always in....it depends on the scenario.

Not sure which DVD is best as I dont have them all. The new series though (extreme chi sau) has some good stuff on it. I will try and get alan to post and give you some advice.

Cheers


Nick

[Gooseman]

Nick.
Thanks for that very informative answer, I have read that Steve was suitably respectful of Joseph Cheng WC in the 70's which is cool.
Steve Morris from the tapes I have watched and info from training buddy seems to be quite incredible.
Look forward to Alan's reply.
Best wishes.
Steve G.

[chi sau]

gooseman
i trained with steve for a while and couldnt endorse anybody more
he upped my game in a big way
as an aside i asked what he thought of chi sau and whether it was a worthwhile exercise and he said it was ok but needed to be worked outside of the ranges worked in wing chun but he got more out of thai clinch work or pummeling


nick what is the difference in "body structure " between what steve and alan do?

regards

[Gooseman]

Chi sau - interesting observations from Morris.
What in your opinion are the benefits from training in WC, now that MMA is so popular?
I like Steve Morris's dress sense, t-shirt tucked into high waistband nearly as funky as belt in casual trouser wearing Wing Chunk Masters.:)
Steve G.

[Nick Forrer]

Guys dont want to derail this thread with discussion about steve morris...but v briefly

Re: Structure: As a very basic reference point..... steve uses elbows out hips back structure, alan uses elbows down hips in structure but both are functional in an nhb context (for e.g. neither put their weight on the back leg, both talk about being able to fire multiple shots at close range etc.). Of course there is a lot more to it than that but Im not going to go into it here. Both have DVDs in which you can see them in action and make the comparison for yourself.:)

[ChangHFY]

Hey everyone,

Check out this link from Master Benny Meng who attended the Seni07.

It sounds like it was an awesome event!

http://www.hfy108.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=2212



take care,
Zach

[chi sau]

gooseman
wc is a good base art to expand upon,its good points are the usual sensitivity drills(very limited use but its there imho)punching down the center line and redirection of force in blocks
im not the worlds most eloquant man so hopethat makes sense
as for bads points its probably all been said before
regards
paul

[Nick Forrer]

ttt for anyone interested

[Dan_chi_sau]

hey nick,
maybe I'm just being a muppet here, and i hope I'm not the only one thinking this...............whats ttt?

hope you're well, I'll be in touch.

Dan

[CFT]

TTT = To The Top.

No worries mate. All these TLAs and FLAs are a PITA IMO. :p

[Dan_chi_sau]

got you.....