Choregraphed reference points in martial arts

[Black Jack II]

I wanted to get this post out after I the ambush based flinch training thread which was of interest to me.

In every martial art there are specific style based reference points of combat which are often very specific to that type of fighting system. Not just skill sets but actual range based reference points that make that user comfortable in a combative training situation.

Wing Chun, TKD, Chow Gar, Judo, Boxing...what have you but they all have there own frameworks on fighting range.

Is having a set reference point a good or bad thing and what is your styles reference point?

One of the intrinsic benefits of a stylistic reference point is that you are comfortable in a certain zone and can react with a greater degree of reaction, mechanics and confidence within a given framework. It's something you practice over and over and over again so in a way it becomes second nature but only second nature within a certain context.

But one could say for a fighter to free himself from such a static platform and adapt to any given stimulus at different ranges of combat, to swim in any kind of water, you need to embrace the concept of resistance or alive based performance methodologies.

What I am getting at is if the defensive situation is the result of a ambush in which the player has had no time to make preparations, which is very much often the case; then does having a set reference point put you behind the power-curve in terms of ability to overcome such an attack, because of the fluid nature of aggressive non scripted action, or will it cause a momentary pause in which a person finds themselves thinking outside of there choreographed teachings.

Personally for a normal person, a non martial artist based student just looking for some basic self defense/offense, a simple reference point of retribution can help maximize a individual technique proficiency by simultaneously minimizing the decisions necessary to actually act.

The opposite end seems to be the mma/freestyle way of thinking where its more mano-mano based and trained only in the context of hard sparring where to people are squared off.

I think intergration is the key.

Thoughts?

[No_Know]

Reference points?

My comprehension, each technique has a zone in which it works. Staged, safe, or ambush and surprise, each still only works in it's zone. There is getting the idea when in a class. When surprised there are key points that although perhaps different from the ranges or ideal in class or gist with a form. Each technique should have a least common denominator.

There is timing. The place to use a technique can vanish. The appropriate technique might not can happen because of head start, or speed difference or perception difference between opponents. You can't always do something-ish. You'll get baited to be pulled off. Or reach. When multiples are there, I might think they could coordinate --one seems weak you follow the yield then get sneaked, snaked, caught by one of the others (the other) relevant to focusing on acting or some-such.

I see that left based technique is vulnerable by a leftbased technique and I need to cover either to my right, up or down or two of these getting me angle.

Using a nine zone concept left, up, middle down; Center up, middle, down; Right up middle, down...Yes there is simultaneously sides up middle down back low back nine zone. You are in a cube-ish with six nine zones. Also low for attacks outside of practical hand reach.

No_Know

Things to be done.

[Black Jack II]

It's not such much the mechanics of a technique but the principle of how a style may stick you into a specific reference point of combat and if that is a good or bad thing.

It's kinda what Geoff Thompson calls the "sugar pedestal" and is a frequent criticsm of traditional players. Meaning it is easy to pull off your stuff in the kwoon when the decisions on when to attack are removed because of this specific set by set reference point on how that style may look at combative defense.

I am coming off a little fractured but to clarify do you think having a iron clad theoretical stylistic reference point of reaction hinders your adaptability.

[No_Know]

Hopefully not.

I might think that it broadens adaptabilty.

I No_Know

[SunBeam]

If I'm getting what you are asking correctly, I would say no. I would believe that a set reference point would enhance your ablity to react quickly. Now, of coarse you can be in a place or situation that those points may not be valid and then the abilty to be "free" would come in handy but still the original "points" clue you or lead you (at least me) to the other possible actions. Usually, in a classic ambush, part of the success of such a thing is the element of suprise so that the subject cannot react promptly. If I can flow through a second nature response I may still have some success while my mind is free to process what to do next...like my niffty football moves of yesteryear ;)

[No_Know]

You say mechanics. But I No_Know other than so called flinching with a technique that is appropriate. I practice with comprehension and my partners are who I create. I use the fantastic worst people to go against in as much as when testing a theorythere must be multiple variations and the opponent is faster/stronger/ smarter-ish /has acomplices and is devious .

In what I look-at the fkinch is stopped. My perception is such that I do I recover quickly and have calm then have database to refer for action. I do not react hopefully. I can see it slow enough to select an action.

Now what might could use work is honeing decision choosing.

Perhaps some such one might think.

I No_Know

[jdhowland]

It's when you misunderstand your style's range that you end up with a style that is unreliable. When karate was used as a basis for light contact point sparring, karateka found that their karate didn't work and they developed a new form called kickboxing. The reason their karate couldn't work is that they were trying to use it after facing off with their opponents at the limit of their kicking range. But the techniques of Okinawate were designed for responding to contact within arm's reach.
And you shouldn't always follow conventional wisdom about your style's ideal range. In traditional Chinese arts it might be best to not believe too firmly anything your sifu tells you in the first ten years. The appearance of training forms may be used to conceal a style's intended use. I come from a "long-hand" style known for its full extension strikes. The best use I have found for these moves is within grappling range where the "strike" becomes a throw or joint lock. The fist is made simply to make the attack more powerful by pulling in some of the mass and shortening the radius of the stroke.

[Mega-Foot]

I don't understand.....

I just kill. I don't need reference points.

I figure all I have to do is kill, and the rest takes care of itself.