Safety/Effectiveness of Jow as Post-Surgery Treatment

[Takuan]

Hey all, I recently had a jaw surgery (major overhaul), my jaw is broken in three places right now, and my jaws are wired shut. Needless to say my face is all swollen, and I was wondering about using dit da jow as a treatment for the swelling. Now I'm not fresh out of the hospital, I've been home for a week and a half now, and the swelling is going down, but where my upper jaw was screwed together, the swelling is seeming to take longer than I expected. The stitches are all out, and it's really just bones mending at this point, so I don't see that the jow would hurt anything, however, before I start using jow on my face three times per day, I figured I'd give the good ol' TCM forum a shout!

Thanks very much for your time,

[Royal Dragon]

Anything that strengthnes the bones is going to be good right now. Which is one of Dit Da Jows major functions, so I'd go ahead and use the best stuff you can find. Preferably an internal/external team.

[Takuan]

Awesome! Thanks very much for the prompt response!

*proceeds to dip head in vat of Jow*

[MonkeyKingUSA]

Definitely not!
The facial structure (nerves, muscles and skin) is much more sensitive than that of the hands. The nerves are also closer to the surface. Plus there is the chance of getting the jow into the mucous membranes (eyes, nose, mouth). I would pass.
BTW, a martial arts site is a terrible place to get medical advice. Ask your doctor, or at least a TCMA doctor that you know personally and would trust with your life.
Richard A. Tolson, IAPS

[Royal Dragon]

Bone is still bone though. Herbs that heal bone are found in Dit Da Jows.

I go for an internal one myself though.

[NJM]

Dit Da Jow would be a great idea. Because it's the face, I reccomend a filtered jow instead of the gritty kind.

[herb ox]

Although I agree with MKUSA's advice to consult your local trusted practicioner, I disagree with his outright condemnation of the use of jow on the face.

While the facial skin is more sensitive than the hands, I can't really think of a reason why not to use the jow other than the inconvenience of trying to apply enough to the affected area.

I agree with RD - perhaps an internal approach is better - herbs that move blood (i.e. ru xiang, mo yao) and promote healing of tissue and bone (like xu duan) would treat the trauma of the surgery from the inside out and help to soothe/strengthen the ligaments and tendons that were likely stretched during the process.

As for the external, I'd test the jow in a small spot first to check for sensitivity. Avoid the highly concentrated types like Tieh Ta Yao Jin which may irritate the skin or cause staining or jow with menthol or spicy hot herbs... and yes, keep it out of your nose, eyes and mouth.

Better yet, you can also make a 'jow' without alcohol by boiling the herbs and applying with a soaked rag to the area.

Good luck and feel better,

herb ox

[MonkeyKingUSA]

Bone is still bone though. Herbs that heal bone are found in Dit Da Jows.


And poison is still poison, as some jow recipes contain. Applied to areas where nerves and blood vessels are closer to the skin surface, like in the facial area, poisons can be taken into the body easier. Especially when, as I noted above, they could accidentally be introduced into the mucous membranes.

Richard A. Tolson, IAPS

[Royal Dragon]

Which is why I sugjested an internal Jow.

Although, only *some* Jows cannot get into cuts. The one from my system does not matter. Ours is also a two part, one is topical, and the other internal. The internal is taken once every 3 days, and the topical everytime you train impact exercises.

Slight modification of both and they are used for broken bones, tore ligamanets etc...

[herb ox]

Yeah, the only poisons I can realistically think of (as used in modern jow formualtions) would be isopropyl alcohol, camphor, and Fu Zi (aconite) - even then, I know people taking Fu Zi internally in fairly large amounts and they're still breathing.

Most jows are fomulated to be safe and effective. "Secret" jows are rarely available to the layperson. I dunno, I still think the safety margin is pretty wide.

ox

[Takuan]

I've now been using the jow on the swelling for a few days, it's helping alot! Yesterday I got my jaws unwired and they gave me the speech about tho horrible blinding pain in my jaw muscles that was to come in the next few days (Due to them completely detaching the muscles during the operation, then not moving the jaw for two weeks). I started putting on jow and moving my jaw as much as possible. I woke up this morning and my jaw muscles don't hurt a bit!

Hooray Dit Da Jow!!!

I used the 'Iron Dragon' jow from http://ditdajows.com/commerce.cgi?product=ddj&cart_id=4635859.12012

Thanks to everyone for your advice!,

[cjurakpt]

I've now been using the jow on the swelling for a few days, it's helping alot! Yesterday I got my jaws unwired and they gave me the speech about tho horrible blinding pain in my jaw muscles that was to come in the next few days (Due to them completely detaching the muscles during the operation, then not moving the jaw for two weeks). I started putting on jow and moving my jaw as much as possible. I woke up this morning and my jaw muscles don't hurt a bit!

Hooray Dit Da Jow!!!

I used the 'Iron Dragon' jow from http://ditdajows.com/commerce.cgi?product=ddj&cart_id=4635859.12012

Thanks to everyone for your advice!,

just don't be surprised if it hits you hard on day 3 - that's more typical than for day one (honeymoon period)...

but using the jow will probably help with that (although I'd personally be leery of using jow on a recent surgical site - but others posting here with more knowledge in that area seem to be ok with it); I would also agree that consulting a local TCM practitioner might be of some value as well

I would also consider a period of physical therapy specifically for the TMJ, especially if you do have pain that last for more than about a week or so; it's not like you'd die without it, of course, but it might be of some use, as the whole neuromuscular dynamics of the jaw are going to be very different, and that can impact you as far down as the pelvis, depending on the situation; but make sure it's with someone trained in it specifically (any one who has taken the post-graduate coursework offered by Roccobado should be qualified)

[herb ox]

j... the whole neuromuscular dynamics of the jaw are going to be very different, and that can impact you as far down as the pelvis, depending on the situation;

That's funny, I've often noticed my jaw 'dynamics' affect me down to the pelvis as well! :D Though admittedly, it's usually due to my jaw flapping, followed by a jaw slapping, followed by acute loin aching as she walks away :o

ox

[NJM]

I know people taking Fu Zi internally in fairly large amounts and they're still breathing.


Me, for example, though I don't reccomend it.