Fighting applications of your salutation/bow?

[jmd161]

I'm just curious as to how many people actually know the fighting applications found within their styles bow/salutation?


If you know of them do you also drill them or work these applications?



We not only know ours, but also drill them from time to time. This seems to be a forgotten practice with most kung fu schools.


jeff:)

[Mr Punch]

I was taught and drilled an elaborate bow in one school.

Problem was, it was some shaolin derivative bow in a wing chun school, it was an overcomplicated wrist lock, and it was complete bollocks.

Interestingly enough, in aikido there is a way of getting out of a grab for the rear that we were often shown that was just dropping and bowing. I know it can work for real, because while I was sparring with a friend in karate once, another karate mate (couple of inches on me and built), messing around, came and picked me up with a bear hug, and as soon as I could root through one foot I dropped straight into that bow and he went flying over my head into the guy I had been sparring. Put his shoulder out for three weeks!

Otherwise, I like headbutts, the dynamics of which are not all that far from bowing! :D ;)

[jmd161]

I was taught and drilled an elaborate bow in one school.

Problem was, it was some shaolin derivative bow in a wing chun school, it was an overcomplicated wrist lock, and it was complete bollocks.





Hmmm


That's pretty interesting.. The fact that you say overcomplicated, i'm sure had a lot to do with it's effectiveness. Our bow/salute is mainly strikes with some takedowns and throws along with some leg techniques designed to take out your legs.

jeff:)

[Mr Punch]

The fact that you say overcomplicated, i'm sure had a lot to do with it's effectiveness. No doubt. It was quite cool as a salute, but as a tech it was crap.
Our bow/salute is mainly strikes with some takedowns and throws along with some leg techniques designed to take out your legs.

jeff:)This, on the other hand, sounds like a quite useful skillset martially, and yet a completely ridiculous way of greeting each other! :D

[TenTigers]

I teach applications first, so when they do get to the form, they've already been doing the moves, hands on. They simply need to learn the sequence.

[jmd161]

This, on the other hand, sounds like a quite useful skillset martially, and yet a completely ridiculous way of greeting each other! :D


:DLOL


You know, I must say it's well hidden in the salute, you wouldn't really see it except for, maybe a few strikes.

jeff:)

[jmd161]

I teach applications first, so when they do get to the form, they've already been doing the moves, hands on. They simply need to learn the sequence.



That's the way we learn as well. By the time you start learning the form, the techniques just jump out at you.


jeff:)

[Mr Punch]

I teach applications first, so when they do get to the form, they've already been doing the moves, hands on. They simply need to learn the sequence.I like that way, but unfortunately, in wing chun most people are too precious about the forms and teach the other way.

Incidentally, but not OT, the wing chun sil lum tao form has an opening stance and cross-hands movement which doesn’t have a meaning to most wing chun schools… they use the reason that the crossing hands is just to reaffirm where your centerline is. Seems pretty stupid to me:

a) The centerline is not just on one plane, it’s an axis and
b) From the front aspect it would be… er, down the centre of your body…!

The meaning was then shown to me and now I think it’s a good idea to teach it to everybody new, right from the start with the stance, in order to get them some footwork from the start.

[msg]

kuntao.silat has a nice salutation it has locks breaks chokes and blocks in it we first broke every thing in it down .i use it in every day training its very useable

[SoCo KungFu]

I have about 3 apps for the hung gar salute. Couple with strikes and a slightly modified for a throw. I like those ones the best and at least when I had a kwoon to go to, would work em in sparring.

The other system I studied was a mixture of different material ranging from Wah Lum based stuff to 7 star and also picked up a bit of Tai chi mantis on the mantis end. Then there was some other southern stuff coming in from Pai Lum (I didn't learn too much of the Pai Lum stuff though). The mantis stuff...the 7 star salute didn't seem to have an app though I cant say I actually tried to find one, or even ask for that matter. The Wah Lum...eh I guess there is a bit you could pull since its so simple. Mostly I just got a couple strikes out of it and I did practice those though. The tai chi one I liked. It was a cool block to a real fast strike. I like it because its simple, quick and fits in with my other hung gar in-fighting stuff.

[sunfist]

umm... its a headbutt

[chivalrous hall]

in hung kuen apart from applications their r many folklore meanings in the salute. these very from school to school although they might share the common one or two.

[chivalrous hall]

to answer the question of the thread. dont concentrate on the application too much as i find it doesnt suit my personality:D

Cheers

[xcakid]

I'm just curious as to how many people actually know the fighting applications found within their styles bow/salutation?


If you know of them do you also drill them or work these applications?



We not only know ours, but also drill them from time to time. This seems to be a forgotten practice with most kung fu schools.


jeff:)


At my current Kwoon, our long fist salutation/presentation/bow consist of ridge hand to groin, then temple, then outward chop, elbow. Bow can be used as head butt.

You can actually break apart each movements to different applications.

Good topic!! I actually did not learn about "hidden" applications of various presentations(bows) until I was at...........wait for it.........the controversial McDojo of all......................USSD :eek:

[SevenStar]

kuntao.silat has a nice salutation it has locks breaks chokes and blocks in it we first broke every thing in it down .i use it in every day training its very useable

that's what I was gonna say.

[secretgecko]

Is there a current lion dance thread on this site that someone could direct me to?

[David Jamieson]

Is there a current lion dance thread on this site that someone could direct me to?

no. lion dance forum was forgone in favour of the mma forum. :p

j/k

anyway, let's hijack this thread!

You do Fut Shan? Hok Shan? Northern? Modern? Competition.

What Kind of Lion does your school play? 3 Brothers? or different colours?

as for salutations, I have learned a few different ones seeing as the forms collection is mish mashy lol. But yeah, some of the salutes have apps and other are like symbolic sign language.

some is a mix of that! Anyway, even the shaolin salute has martial application. Just not sure if it would be my first choice in an offensive tactic. Unless my opponent was obviously and demonstratively weaker than I, in which case I would have mercy and only salute him. :D

[Mr Punch]

no. lion dance forum was forgone in favour of the mma forum. :p...

Anyway, even the shaolin salute has martial application. Just not sure if it would be my first choice in an offensive tactic. Unless my opponent was obviously and demonstratively weaker than I, in which case I would have mercy and only salute him. :D

LOL, someone's on form today...

[Yao Sing]

Wah Lum has 2 openings (all the sets fall into 2 categories) and they have apps but not much focus is given to them.

I've taught them but it's not standard instruction.

[Shaolin Wookie]

I'm going to go with the obvious and say, if someone threatened you and wished to do combat, if you performed an elaborate bow, he might just take it as subservience, such as you just honored him, and thus he'd assume he won the confrontation.

But in that quaint, romantic traditional sense....you won not by backing out. But by having him do so.

[Becca]

I'm just curious as to how many people actually know the fighting applications found within their styles bow/salutation?


If you know of them do you also drill them or work these applications?


For the short bow, yes. I am not yet special enough to get to do the full bow.;)

And at one time I was tought the whole form the bow was derived from. But I was a friggin newb who hadn't yet figured out that I needed to keep and nuture my forms as I might not get to see that form again for many, many years, if ever.

I have learned my lesson and now cling to my non-caricular forms with much tenacity. Not to say I don't goof them. But Sifu has never minded correcting a form that has mistakes but has also obviously been practiced.:)

[TenTigers]

I have a video on applications of the bow on my youtube page

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YScd4V0u4pg

[Becca]

... I kept looking for the "like" button before realizing I have to actually interact to let you know I liked the vid. :eek:

[SPJ]

Yes.

Depending on the schools or styles

there are both opening and closing practice stances.

They are usually some signature moves for two man duel practice sets.

We greet and then start our practice or fights.

:cool:

[sanjuro_ronin]

When I see app's of what doesn't really appear to be an application I often wonder if it was a hidden application ( some systems did this called "himitsu" in Okinawan karate) OR if it was simply a case of taking a move ( this case a salutation) and making an application.
I guess we may never know.

[TenTigers]

When I see app's of what doesn't really appear to be an application I often wonder if it was a hidden application ( some systems did this called "himitsu" in Okinawan karate) OR if it was simply a case of taking a move ( this case a salutation) and making an application.
I guess we may never know.
I really don't see a difference.
Many people only know one technique for one move. My teachers taught me to open my mind, and tear apart the move and find the applications, and make it work. Who is to say what is right? The originators are long gone.
It has always been said, that the form is the form, and the application comes from the Sifu.
That is why each individual Sifu will have different versions.
"Gwok Si, Gwok Faht."

[sanjuro_ronin]

I really don't see a difference.
Many people only know one technique for one move. My teachers taught me to open my mind, and tear apart the move and find the applications, and make it work. Who is to say what is right? The originators are long gone.
It has always been said, that the form is the form, and the application comes from the Sifu.
That is why each individual Sifu will have different versions.
"Gwok Si, Gwok Faht."

Ah I agree, I do not think that there is only one application for any move.
My point was that we may never know if a salutation ever really had an application or if one was simply made up for it.
Not that it really matters.
Unless of course someone says the super-silly crap of "my way is the right way".

[Frost]

I always thought the start and end of a form was more like a signature of the art and told those in the know who the guy had trained with and for how long, then specific techniques, but as you say which came first the salute or the application is anyone's guess