Sifu Wan Kam Leung Video

[Miss Moyinggerk]

Wan Kam Leung Practical Wing Chun

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2c5OvTpGlM

[jesper]

hmm maybe it was just my comp but why did they need to speed up the film :confused:

[Miss Moyinggerk]

Hi Jesper

The clip has not been speed up. It is film with a vid cam, and then converted to a smaller file. I made the clip myself.
Where exactly do you think that it is speeded up?

Pui Yee

[jooerduo]

thanks for the video

I've met him before - he's a very tough guy

how much is it to learn his chi gung?

[Lee Chiang Po]

I watched it over and over and only seen fast and very skilled hand movements. Just what is it that we are supposed to have seen?

[jesper]

The movements seems out of sync like the old black/white movies, but guess it comes from the transmission from handheld camcorder.
It wasnt my intent to be insulting or anything, was just curious.:)

Oh btw your sifu looks cool

[JLQ]

This video clip is a compilation of some clips made over the course of a standard training lesson in Wan Kam Leung Sifu’s school in Hong Kong.

For the people who have never heard about this man before, he began his wing chun training in 1962 and is one of the most senior students of the late Wong Shun Leung

He is currently running a very successful school on Nathan Rd. in HK and has changed the system he learned from WSL to suit his own ideas and needs over the years. His personal style is identified as “Practical Wing Chun”.

Wan Sifu has awesome gung fu skills and people of his (martial art) stature and position do not have resort to “doctoring” video clips or idle tricks to make them look good. These people are very proud of their gung fu skill and like to show it of – if one is genuinely interested or even doubting the efficiency of Wan sifu’s system, he is usually more than happy to accommodate any requests for demonstration.

In this vein, there hasn’t been tampered with the speed or anything else in the video, nothing is prearranged or set up – Wan sifu is simply demonstrating very precise wing chun skill and excellent timing, with minimum effort. The directness of the techniques, the timing – in addition to some physical speed, of course ;-) – make the techniques seem much faster than they really are.

To my knowledge, this video was recorded with the intent to show Wan sifu’s style, how they train, etc. and should only be taken as such – it was not created with the intention to impress. It is really up to the eye of the beholder to recognize skill or not 

respectfully,
JLQ

[YungChun]

Clip did not appear to be sped up.. Some frames may have been dropped but no speed up..



Now go back and look very carefully at what the other guy is doing in this vid. The punches he throws...the way he reacts to what's being done to/thrown at him.

And tell me what you see.

The same thing you always see in Chi Sao--student/teacher compliance and lots of centerline attacks... But that's chi sao for ya....

It would be nice to see one of these sifu dealing with centerline and non centerline attacks but I wouldn't hold my breath...

[Lee Chiang Po]

The same thing you always see in Chi Sao--student/teacher compliance and lots of centerline attacks... But that's chi sao for ya....

It would be nice to see one of these sifu dealing with centerline and non centerline attacks but I wouldn't hold my breath...
__________________
Jim H


I thought that was what he did. Not all of what you saw was chi sao. He did maintain centerline, but he violated his opponents centerline. As in the roundhouse kick where he stepped forward at an angle and simply kicked the opponents head. Beautiful move.
What exactly would be the purpose for a none centerline attack? A none centerline defense would be more like it wouldn't it? Or would it? I don't know exactly what I am trying to say. But it is not always possible to front on an attack from an opponent. You would have to act from whatever angle you had. But an attack on an opponent would not be as strong if you did not come up the center. I mean your weapons of attack and defense are limited when you go off centerline. This is why you attempt to violate his centerline. To put him at a disadvantage

[Lee Chiang Po]

"As in the roundhouse kick where he stepped forward at an angle and simply kicked the opponents head. Beautiful move."


***LIKE THAT'S really ever gonna happen in a real situation.
__________________
Victor Parlati

Why not? If you walked down any street you will not likely walk past anyone that is trained in any form of martial art. There are lots of people that are slightly introduced to it, and that might be able to attempt some of the more dangerous moves like high kicks and roundhouse kicks, but are otherwise not trained fighters as such. I have never met another person that was at all Wing Chun trained in my entire life except when I went to a place where they trained. It is quite likely that if you were to run up on someone that was highly trained, you just might not be able to do all these moves with ease. But in my life I have never run up on one. I have known men that were dangerous and could fight like tigers, but they did not have a single lesson in any gym. They were just fast and strong and could use their fists and feet. But on average this is not what a person will train against.
I don't ever remember squaring off with anyone. I never showed any sign of fighting back or that I was even thinking of it until I did so. If you do square off with someone you will not have an advantage, but might just become at a disadvantage. That is why you should always train for anything. I do not see this move as not ever going to happen. I have had several young bucks try to get me with a roundhouse kick like that. I would have had no trouble kicking his head, but I was not allowed to kick drunken customers in the head. Most of the Karate or Kung Fu you see on the street is just something that they seen on TV or in a 3rd rate Kung Fu movie. If you climb into a ring with another skilled fighter you might not be able to do that so easily, but I don't plan on doing that any time soon.

[YungChun]

Certain techniques work well in a demo (or against drunk people) but can be problematic when faced with a "live" opponent with some fighting ability and the will to hurt you...

One must understand that if you tell someone to attack you with technique A then it is about a billion times easier to apply counter attack move "B" or whatever move you like. This kind of set up can make any technique look reasonable. However, when faced with someone who may employ any number of moves while at the same time using evasive footwork and deceptive timing, using "really cool technique #46" can become many times more difficult or near impossible to apply....

The chances of that move "working" when the round kick is a "surprise" is not terribly high when you are fighting or "defending yourself” against someone with a modicum of skill.

Folks need to be able to distinguish the difference between "high percentile" moves and "low percentile" moves... The way to do this is to try out defenses with greater degrees of difficulty and against opponents skilled in delivering them.

For example, when someone <not pointing to anyone in particular> demos a dizzying array of Wing Chun defenses against centerline punches one may be amazed at how well the system deals with those.. But you have to take into consideration that in the real world no one is going to attack you like that. This begs the question what happens when they DON'T attack like that...? The pat and dry answer that if you train to defend the most direct attack then all the rest are easy sounds great in theory but theory and reality often don't match up as nicely as one might like...

[monji112000]

The kick to the face for a round kick...
well its a basic idea straight line vrs circle.. but I would rather just jam in and punch.. or kick the supporting leg or kick the kicking leg.. These type of techniques require you to really feel his timing, and react very quickly. Its not like you will be able to pull them off most of the time.. Allot of people are able to setup round kicks in a way that doesn't allow you to "see it coming".

I prefer the Qwan or Tan Gerk. or even a Gun sao

[Lugoman]

Countering a round kick with a kick (front, round and especially spinning back or hook) happens all the time in Tae Kwon Do, it's very doable.

[YungChun]

Countering a round kick with a kick (front, round and especially spinning back or hook) happens all the time in Tae Kwon Do, it's very doable.


That's because those folks stay at range................

Also different dynamics at work. Totally different animal than what a Wing Chun man, Kick Boxer or Muay Thai boxer is going do/use...

Legs against legs are fine--the devil is in the details...

[YungChun]

Case in point..

http://neurology.med.upenn.edu/~jason/fights/Tournament-MuayThai.vs.TKD.mpg

[Lugoman]

Guess I missed the point, I thought the original comments were along the lines that it's not likely to happen that someone could counter a kick with a kick. Why would style matter? Does the study of WC somehow inhibit one's ability to kick while their opponent's foot is off the ground?

I guess I got lost on this thread somehow.

[Lee Chiang Po]

The thing is that when you have 2 chunners mixing it up, you will not have a normal situation. And unless you climb into a ring or walk into a kwoon and challenge someone, you are not going to have to deal with a skilled fighter. It has always been my theory that large bully types do not know how to fight with any sort of skill simply because they have never had to learn. Their size and strength would always get them over. Not to say that they would be push overs at all. It is an obvious fact that if you climb into a ring with another skilled fighter he is going to have an idea at least that you are going to try to beat him down. So he is not going to be an easy mark. No matter his fighting style, he is going to be a serious threat to your well being. If you train to fight someone that is of the same style and ability you will be able to deal with someone like that to some extent, but then what you are likely to experience is a really mad individual coming at you with a wind mill. Most will start out like they are some sort of kick boxer or plain boxer, but then they crumble into just swinging. They can take off your head if they are big and strong. Mike Tyson said that everyone has a game plan until they get punched in the face.
What we see in these videos is just someone demonstrating skill for the camera. In a fight this little man would be dangerous without saying. He would not be taken with ease. I suspect that he has trained pretty much each aspect of his system to the point to where he can perform as well. A round house kick is always done with the rear foot. It takes a lot of movement to achieve this, and it is not easy to do without at least showing your intention. Part of the system of fighting is knowing how to stance. Such as, when a person takes a left forward stance you take a right forward stance. Or I do anyway. This puts his strongest weapon ****hest away from me. I try to maintain a centerline stance and if he tosses a round house kick at me he will burn out at his own center line. To place myself out of his most effective range I simply half step forward with my right foot and slightly at an angle right. This will place me well past the burn out point and all I would have to then do would be to kick him with my left foot. His head, knee, groin, or simply rush forward and flip him into the air. If you are facing more than one person when the kick is tossed at you, I think you would want to be as quick and efficient as possible so as not to put yourself off balance or set up for another attack.
One of my most brilliant defences was similar. I had an opponent toss round house kick at my head. I did my little move and kicked the back of his brace leg. He went down on his face. I quickly leaped in and with the toes of my feet shoved under his arm pits I sat on his back and placed my left hand, thumb extended into his throat and grabbed my left hand with my right and pulled his head back toward me. Both his arms were trapped and I was sitting on him with my feet slightly spread. He was having a thumb driven into the side of his wind pipe with extreme force. He gave it up quickly. If not, I could have easily killed him. I had never trained for that move either. But I went into it quickly and without forethought. Granted, if I had tried to do that with some big time kick boxer it might not have gone as well. But my point is that when we train to defend ourselves it is not always going to be against someone with the same fighting skills. That is why we train this system. It is to give us an advantage over the average guy. When we start getting into the above average guys it can get a bit hairy. When you think about it, it is the only fighting system that does not require you to be really physically fit to be able to overcome strong opponents. It requires skill and timing over strength. Most every other form or system requires years of hard work in order to be good at it. If you are fit and strong you can be even better at this system. I talk too much,

[jesper]

Not to pick on you but there is a saying. asumption is the mother of all F.U.

Fx not all roundhouse kicks are done with the rear leg.
Some very good fighters will kick with there front leg in a manner which at first looks like a straight front kick, then turn it into a roundhouse kick on the way up.

happy training :)

[Knifefighter]

One of my most brilliant defences was similar. I had an opponent toss round house kick at my head. I did my little move and kicked the back of his brace leg. He went down on his face. I quickly leaped in and with the toes of my feet shoved under his arm pits I sat on his back and placed my left hand, thumb extended into his throat and grabbed my left hand with my right and pulled his head back toward me. Both his arms were trapped and I was sitting on him with my feet slightly spread. He was having a thumb driven into the side of his wind pipe with extreme force. He gave it up quickly. If not, I could have easily killed him. ,

To quote another poster.... "Please, just stop.... silly posts like these are exactly why people don't take Chinese martial arts seriously....."

[Liddel]

Countering a round kick with a kick (front, round and especially spinning back or hook) happens all the time in Tae Kwon Do, it's very doable.

Im not going to debate the idea of the kick and its effectiveness.

The only thing that comes to mind is, he's a VT man and has two hands free. A punch or flurry of punches would have done the job, but of course not looked as flash :rolleyes:

The mas obviously has ability, but i have an issue with the amount of crossed hands i can see. Present in the free flow and in formal Poon Sao where the bong crosses the fook.

The teacher seems to have the ability to recover from such a position if an opponent takes advantage, but its a very bad habbit to train IMHO, especially if you teach your students by example.

DREW

[Lee Chiang Po]

I go and look at all the video that is posted here, and again, it is just someone making video and some showing off skills. In a serious situation I doubt that someone would be doing all the cross hand stuff. In fact, in a serious situation there is seldom going to be a flurry of blows either. After taking a shot in the face most anyone is going to retreat or regroup, or even fall to the floor. And I think it has been said that no one is going to just stand and let you pummal them in the face continually without at least attempting to move away.
I am still trying to figure out why my post was silly. It was simple Jujitsu. It is one of the most effective systems of self defense. I am 62 years old now, and I am still fast and accurate. There was a time when I was much faster. Speed in the form of fluid motion is like water. Once it moves it is impossible to catch before it reaches it's new level. It follows the most direct route. Any kick that comes around has to take longer to reach a target, and if one uses his forward leg for a round house kick he has to establish his other leg as a foundation first, which is going to take time. If you train to counter this sort of move, no one will ever be fast enough to tag you with it unless you let him sucker you. This is why you go up the center line. You get there quicker, and you can deflect your attacker because you can get there quicker. It is not how good you look doing it. It is about how good you look after it is all over with. Practice and training is where you gain the speed and fluid motion. It is your Chi.
I once had a buddy in New Orleans that was training in what he called Southern Preying Mantis. I would try to do some of the moves he was doing but was not physically able. In fact, I don't think I would have ever been able to do some of them. There was a lot of round or circular moves. Lots of them. And the kicks. I could not do any of them. I would have had to train for months in order to be able to do them, and must admit that I do not think I would ever be good at them. Now, I showed him a bunch of moves that he could do immediately, and do them well. In fact, he could train at them and use them in the same day. He came to me and asked if I would teach him. He gave up several years of what he was doing because he had found something that he could really do well without all the extreme physical training. Any system of defense that requires extreme conditioning is only as good as your ability to stay fit.
Of course if you are fit you will better be able to do your system justice. And if you train 4 hours a day, 6 days a week, you will gain your skills much quicker than you will by going to kwoon once a week for a couple of hours.

[YungChun]

Any kick that comes around has to take longer to reach a target, and if one uses his forward leg for a round house kick he has to establish his other leg as a foundation first, which is going to take time.

Dewd....

I don't know what 'experience' you've had but some of these comments are just so *off*...

Round kicks only come from the rear.. Front leg round kicks are slower... And a bunch of other comments are really out there.

When I did karate I used to launch myself toward the opponent while at the same time leaning back, taking up three feet or so in distance and at the same time lifting a lead leg round kick to my opponents nose… This whole move took maybe 2 tenths of a second… The path of the lead kick is from the lead foot position to the target with as little arc as possible. The move is also called a Jeet Kune Do ‘Hook Kick’ but it is really a lead round kick..

The point is that the fighter who has a good sense of timing and distance can apply any number of these “less efficient” or “non existent” moves with deadly accuracy, speed and power… To say otherwise is to remove all doubt of one’s lack of “tactical awareness”.

[Lee Chiang Po]

This is if you assume every practitioner is able to do what you do. I have been around the block a few times, and I have never witnessed anyone yet with your super skills. I have seen a few that thought that they had these skills. And they might have had them if they were fighting against someone that was not skilled as such. Not saying you couldn't do it. It is possible. But I don't feel that is is that likely. It is true that the shortest distance between 2 points is a straight line. And if you detour around the corner you are wasting valuable time. There are other laws of physics that apply as well, but speed and distance are the ones that matter. If you are opposing someone with equal speed and skill you can not hope to beat him to the punch by coming around the corner at him. Front or rear leg. It is possible to use any type or kind of punch or kick against someone that is not as well trained as yourself, but against someone that is your equal it would not be wise to make these sorts of attacks. I know that you can generate some pretty good power with a roundhouse kick, but you can not generate as much power as you can with a frontal heel kick. And in a real life situation where you might be confronted by one or more individuals you are risking it all in doing these sorts of kick.