Cross-training

[monji112000]

Cross-training

anyone here cross-train? Or have cross-trained?

I come from a CMA background. Jow Ga (in my teens) ( a combined style of Chow GA/Northern SH/Hung GA) and Wing Chun (more recently). Both styles have a history of cross-training. Ip Man himself learned from different sifus and styles of Wing Chun.

I have within the last year tried to visit and train with different styles and arts.

I am not talking about making a “hybrid” or rewriting your style .. just open exchange and training. CMA have been stagnant in training methods and adapting new ideas. Speed bag, slip ball, heavy bag, cardio, aliveness training, sparing, ect..
I have been exposed constantly in CMA to the belief that if my “sifu didn't use it its not worth looking into” or a notion that you can't improve on drills or training methods used by the “founders”. Like its some type of Holly bible of CMA training methods.

So anyone ever had some fun and cross-trained? I am looking forward to trying BJJ , seeing if I can pickup some basic concepts.

Again I am not talking about mixing styles or somehow abandoning your MA.

[golden arhat]

at the end of it


i use whats useful

and i discard the rest

u shouldnt feel tied to a style

their all just names and ultimately worthless

[bredmond812]

I RESEARCH other styles, and have practiced many styles in the past, but for now, i only want to build up my skill in one style. Chen Shi Zungu Taijiquan. If i have enough skill in that style, i will then branch out. It will be easier to compare the two methods when i have a good foundation from one.

I think of this topic often, and i have kind of felt that the human body hasnt changed really in the past two thousand years, so fighting methods from before are just as effective as they are today. Especially since most fighting styles practiced today are not much older than 3-400 years old. This means that old training methods still work. I have the mentality that if it isnt broke, dont fix it. You can learn from other people's experience without having to reinvent the wheel.

But sure, mixing methods is good. That is one major way that martial arts grow and improve. I just feel that people often dont spend the time building up their skill level to be competitive and just expose themselves to many things. Then when, danger strikes, they have nothing. Of course, this is all theoretical. I dont know anybody who has gotten in a fight since gradeschool, so it is really hard to measure objectively.

B Redmond

[monji112000]

golden arhat,

yes I have read some of Bruce lee's ideas , and I believe these ideas are basic common sense.

What training methods and schools of thought have you cross-trained? How has that differed with your "mother" art? What have you discarded and/or found useful?

bredmond812,

I am not per say talking about mixing martial arts.. only training with various styles and schools.

One useful method of practicing for fighting is sparring, and full contact tournaments, plus other sport style events. Its true these aren't “real” fights, but they do promote skills needed to win real fights. You don't have to get into bar fights to develop the skills needed to survive.

[bredmond812]

Im not sure I follow exactly what you mean. In your original post, i do see now that you say that you are not inventing your own style, but you also say that CMA have been stagnent in training methods and adapting new ideas. From that i get the impression that you are trying to incorporate other training methods into your practice. do you mean to keep the form and technique of your original style, but just use different avenues to develop that same system?

B Red

[monji112000]

I was only looking for how others are cross-training. Honestly for me finding my way of using my style at the moment is more than enough. I am interested in learning new techniques for somethings.. like ground fighting. I don't think you need to throwaway your ideas, but many "newer" training methods exist today and are evolving. Thats my experience that doesn't negate someone else's thought.

For me, its similar to boxing today vrs. Boxing 10,20 even 30 years ago. Most of the ideas and structure haven't changed much, but the way you train have drastically evolved. Jab, cross, hook,ect.. stay the same.. but everything else has evolved.

I also enjoy looking and learning the basic ideas of other styles. You can learn allot about your style, because often if something works for someone else, how and why should teach you something. By taking too many to the face, you learn to keep your hands up.. or move more.

I wasn't looking for anyone one answer or method only people's experience. If you are confident in your style, then you should have nothing to fear from a open environment.
JMO

Who knows you may learn something, or maybe not. :D

[Ultimatewingchun]

I mix some boxing with (Traditional) wing Chun and catch as catch can wrestling.

Use the boxing footwork and frame (mostly stiff leads and crosses) into close quarter wing chun striking territory (where I like to spend most of my time) and catch when it goes to clinch or the ground. (TWC also uses some longer range kicking than what's usually associated with wing chun; ie.- rear roundhosue kicks and rear front kicks - and lots of knees when in close as well).

[Lee Chiang Po]

Because of physical stature most of my life, I have not been concerned much by being physical. I have never been in shape to fight in a ring or such, so I have never considered it. I have always been partial to the fighting systems that do not require me to be physically strong. I would recommend Jujitsu as a cross train. It is extremely effective and does not require one to be large or strong. Of course if you are large and strong it makes it even more effective. I know little about BJJ. Never seen much of it I don't think. I have been watching the Bodog fights hear lately, and unless someone beats an opponent down with their fists early in the fight, Jujitsu usually takes the fight. I have back ground in Japanese Jujitsu, which I think is probably about the same as long as the principals remain unchanged. When you can not stand and fight an opponent due to his superior strength or speed, you can always try to crowd in on him and work for a joint lock or something. Watching the young Gracie boy win against a superior opponent by using an arm bar was exciting. Most of the other systems require a great deal of hard work and might not be as effective. Just a thought.

[Merryprankster]

I have always been partial to the fighting systems that do not require me to be physically strong.

All valid fighting systems rely on proper positioning and maximizing leverage for effectiveness.


I have back ground in Japanese Jujitsu, which I think is probably about the same as long as the principals remain unchanged.

They are very different in emphasis, and although the principles remain unchanged, the training methodology must be sound.


Most of the other systems require a great deal of hard work and might not be as effective.

Getting good at any system requires a great deal of hard work. BJJ, incidentally, is no exception. It is notorious/famous for slow promotion.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Cross-train according to what you wish to achieve. I cross-train because I like to supplement, and learn by accretion.

Capoeira seemed like a stupid choice to some people I know. But I wanted to learn acrobatic and flexibility techniques I didn't get in my school (yet). Has nothing to do with fighting, necessarily. But for the style I wish to learn, Eight Immortals (which I can learn many years from now), it was going to give me a headstart on some of the physically demanding techniques in the forms.

I didn't expect that it would teach me a lot about deception, moving around someone, waiting for the right moment to attack, how to do so, and how to assess the best method of evasion to set up a retaliatory attack in a split second. When someone ducks down and throws a lightning-quick spinning meia-lua, and I wish to duck and counter while still staying in range, I have to know how to dodge, set-up, and counter very quickly, without getting KFO'd. It's also taught me a lot about watching my opponent for methods of reacting.

And when you've studied both, you sometimes have those moments of inspiration, where you slap your forehead and say: "You've already done that before idiot. It's not capoeira. It's movment so-and-so in such and such drilling technique in my kung-fu, or step so-and-so in this or that form."

For the sake of the art (I've cross-trained, or visited many schools), you don't want to integrate them. But you'll quickly realize they're pretty much the same thing. They're just packaged differently.

What you do is build up a knowledge base, an instinct base, and internalize them (my kungfu teacher always talks about internalizing your knowledge). Once you have this knowledge internalized, you can express it in diverse ways, though diverse means (styles).